19/02/2012 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning. We have quite a number of actors on this show, as

you know. We have got another interesting one coming on later on,

Denzel Washington. But I did like this remark quoted from the BAFTAs

this week, coming from the late, great Sir Alec Guinness. Apparently

he was once approached by a young child and was taken aback to hear

the voice saying to him, when I am a grown-up, I want to be an actor.

Sir Alec Guinness said, my dear boy, you cannot be both. Joining us

today for our review of the newspapers, two grown ups, Deborah

Haynes, and the Conservative MP David Davis. It is hard to remember

a Sunday with more momentous story is at the top of the agenda on

foreign affairs. The Foreign Secretary's statement about Iran is

reverberating everywhere, as is the bloody struggle in Syria. Libya is

not going too well, either, and this week, finance ministers will

be meeting to consider the grease question. There is talk of chronic

shortages in fuel, food and medical supplies there. I will be joined by

the Foreign Secretary, William Hague, to talk about all of that

and much more. Here, there's mixed news on the economy. The cherished

AAA credit rating could be in jeopardy, and yet the Bank of

England also says the economy is moving in the right direction, so,

some music for the ears of George Osborne, amid the gloomy background

noises. I will be speaking to his opposite number, the Shadow

Chancellor, Ed Balls - does he think there are at last grounds for

optimism? And I will be speaking to one of Hollywood's most enduring

stars about his new action thriller, Denzel Washington will be telling

me about the extreme lengths he went to for this role. Plus, there

will be music from one of the hottest acts around, tipped for a

Brit award as Best And later this So, lot to get through. Let's start

with the news. Good morning. It has been reported that Iran is

preparing to expand its nuclear programme. Diplomats in Vienna say

new machinery is ready to be installed at an underground plant,

which would speed up the country's production of enriched uranium,

material which could be used in an atomic bomb, although Iran insists

it intends to use it only to generate electricity. China has

said it supports proposals by the Arab League to end the violence in

Syria, after it -- after its diplomats visited the country.

There have been reports that security forces opened fire on a

funeral yesterday in Damascus. Police have arrested a man wanted

over the murder of a vicar near Bristol. The body of Reverend John

Suddards was discovered in his vicarage in Thornbury on Tuesday.

Kent police say Stephen Farrow was held in Folkestone this morning on

suspicion of murder. MPs are warning the government to make sure

that eligibility tests for a new disability benefit are fair and

accurate. The Work and Pensions Select Committee says some of the

reforms to the disability living allowance could mean people missing

out on the money they need to meet their needs. Face-to-face

assessments already form part of the benefits system, in this case

to find out if a person is fit for work. They're controversial and, in

many cases, disputed by the individual concerned. But the

Government wants to see more use of assessments as part of its overhaul

of disability living allowance, which helps to meet the living

costs of the disabled. The new allowance will be called personal

independence payment, or PIP. It independence payment, or PIP. It

will be determined by face-to-face assessments, which, by the

Government's own calculations, should produce savings of 20%. But

should produce savings of 20%. But MPs on the Work and Pensions Select

Committee have concerns. Most people accept a need for reform of

the allowance, certainly those we spoke to, although they believed

that these particular changes could have been achieved by just

reforming the existing benefit, not introducing a new one, and this has

made people very anxious. Because when you get a new benefit, people

do not know whether they will continue to qualify, and this is

where the anxiety is coming from. The committee wants the Government

to make sure the new assessments have been rigorously piloted before

being rolled out. The start of Lent on Wednesday means many parts of

the world will be celebrating carnival over the next few days.

This is how they are doing it in Rio the Janeiro. This is the annual

street party, which attracts about 50,000 people. Across the city, up

That's all from me. I will be back with the headlines just before 10

o'clock. I think part of the purpose of Sunday newspapers, some

of it, anyway, is to make us all feel worse. And so we have the

Observer with this story about how lots of terminally ill NHS patients

will be left at the side of the road while VIPs go fast them -- go

past them in the fast lane. This is the Sunday Times, with a story

designed to make you grind your teeth with fury, about terrorists

spreading jihad from British jails. The Sunday Telegraph, not to be

outdone on the cheerfulness Stakes, as a story about �40 million in

bonuses to MoD staff, which will make lots of recently redundant

servicemen feel particularly cheerful this morning. And also in

the tabloids, the lot of coverage of Whitney Houston. This one has a

story about cars being hit by bombs, people dropping things on to

motorways from bridges. And finally, the Mail on Sunday, this story

about Britain's first male mother. Deborah Haynes and David Davis,

thank you both for joining us. I will not pick up on that last story,

don't worry. Whitney Houston, completely unavoidable, all over

the papers. Yes, we picked out the piece from the Sunday Times, her

funeral was yesterday, so there's lots of pictures of the mourners,

including her co-star in Bodyguard, Kevin is, who gave some fond words

of farewell to the singer, in a broken voice. Yes, even a cultural

recluse like me can remember Bodyguard. From my point of view,

the interesting story was a character I met on your programme,

a lovely singer, lovely girl, and the headline was... Talking about

the fact that actually three celebrities in the past year have

all died, one way or another, related to drugs and alcohol and so

on. She talks about how the pressures on her, the pressure of

fame and so on, have led her to have a break down. But how it may

be a saving for her, keeping her on the straight and narrow. It is a

touching story. I always wonder how many of us, if we were told

constantly we were completely wonderful, and given access to as

much drink as was available, would be like this. Yes, it feels good to

read about this - that's why stars have egos, she says, because we

start to believe the hype. Hopefully it is a lesson for people.

You have got a story about the world we live in, Deborah Haynes,

in a different way... Yes, this is from the Sunday Telegraph, it is

about how the Government can spy on your phone calls, texts and e-mails,

under new plans, to be unveiled later this year. Details of all of

these communications are to be retained for a year. It is all to

do with clamping down on terrorist activity, ahead of the Olympic

Games. There is always an excuse, isn't there? Remember when they had

stop-and-search, we had 150,000 of those in one year in England, 14 in

Scotland. It just shows that if you have these things, they're misused.

And this is not just the phone call, it is where you made it from, what

site you addressed. This is a resurrection of something the

previous government brought in, it is a terrible idea, it is very bad

for civil liberties. They have got most of the powers they need, they

caught the London Glasgow bombers, by tracking what they said.

disagree. Terrorists, or people that want to do bad things, have

got so much technology at their fingertips, and it is pretty easy

to track. So, if used correctly, surely this is a really good thing.

With approval, fine, but the general purpose collection of all

our data, and easy access to it, that is wrong. You will not find be

arguing against using warranted intercepts, but this is just a

hoovering up exercise, it will not work. They probably do it anyway.

This takes us to your next story, I think, David. Yes, this one

demonstrates actually that we are not doing the easy things regarding

terrorists in jail which we ought to be doing. You would have thought

that in jail, at least we would be able to control their activities

and keep an eye on them. It goes back to when Jack Straw was Justice

Secretary. What it is saying, in essence, is that all sorts of

things are happening with people who have been locked up for

terrorist offences, or indeed are under suspicion, they are being

able to communicate with each other, to bring militant, radicalising

literature into the prisons, send messages out from the prisons, Abu

Qatada is mentioned, as being associated... That woman who stuck

the knife into the stomach of Stephen Timms is saying what a

wonderful time she's have been in prison. And this is for them, who

are already convicted, but for people who go into prison, perhaps

slightly weak characters, you know what the best gang to join is?

Because prisons are run by gangs, it is the Radical Islam gang.

should the Home Secretary be doing about this? Well, it is the Justice

Secretary now, but I think we should not be putting them together,

we should be separating them. We should be very, very much tougher

about information going in and out, and there should be limitations on

what they can send out. You lose your liberty when you going to

prison. And you should lose your liberty. Yes, you should lose your

liberty, properly. We should not be namby-pamby about it. I am the

biggest defender of human rights, for innocent people, but once you

have committed this sort of crime, you bring down upon yourself proper

restrictions, I'm afraid. Thank you for that. We are going to turn to

Denmark now, many of us have become obsessed by Denmark because of

certain television programmes recently. We should get obsessed

with Denmark for a different reason, in terms of the way they treat

mothers. This is all about how Labour is looking at Denmark as a

place to get inspiration for child policy. The Observer has been over

to Copenhagen, to speak to various mothers, and it talks about how the

Government pays up to 25% of the cost of day care. -- the Government

pays up to 75% of the cost of day care. It is completely different to

the UK. In Denmark, they say, everyone goes back to work. Over

here, once you have had a couple of children, it actually becomes more

cost-effective to stay at home. daughter, who worked for the BBC,

left the BBC because the child care costs were so much, for the third

child. It is a real issue of modern times. My mother's generation,

basically one person worked in the family, the other person raised the

children - that's not feasible today. Living in London, how many

people can get by on one income? There's a lot of stuff in the

papers this morning about tax. This article from Ed Balls here says you

must cut VAT now, Chancellor. It's very interesting because there is a

big argument going on about the growth strategy, the lack of it,

but the argument comes from two directions. Three, actually. Ed

Balls saying, cut VAT. It actually won't work because the money would

leak out of the country. We would spend the money on Chinese goods.

It wouldn't create any jobs. Then it David Laws in another paper

calling for us to go up to the �10,000 limit, so nobody pays tax

over that. Neither of these will give us the growth we need. The

taxes which will give growth which would give us growth are not

popular. Corporation tax, 1p tax. They on what you need to do. It's

interesting when they talk about it later. Unfortunate, it would not

balance the books. Given we are in this light the strange position,

the triple A rating is under threat and so on, there is quite a mood of

the Tory backbenchers for a tax cut. Yes, but they want the pro-growth

ones. They say, don't be populist. This is the budget you have got to

do it at because everything takes time. We won't pay the debt off if

we don't get growth, so that's right. I'm afraid, it has to be

unpopular tax members. -- measures. Countries have many small

businesses, that we job creation comes. It's very hard. We are

running slightly out of time but let's have another story from you.

This is a courageous piece of reporting. It says the only British

newspaper journalist inside the besieged city of Baba Amr. You what

just back from the Falklands. not quite as scary. Reporting on

the conditions there, she finds herself in a place called the

widows basement, where makeshift beds and scattered belongings,

frightened women trapped in a horror. It has been under siege for

the past two weeks. It says the overwhelming sense of people she

talks to in the City, it's one of abandonment, where is the rest of

the world? In that Libya a year ago to the day, we saw the city being

bombarded, under threat from a ground invasion and we know what

happened after that. Here, they will talk about troops outside the

city. You did the Libyan story in great detail for a long time, I

remember it well. Do you think some kind of military threat is needed

in Syria, too? I think it's happening. It's already happening

for the free Syrian army. There is no where they would have those

communications, with limited weapons at the moment, but they are

getting some sort of outside assistance, but they need more. If

they can go up against a more sophisticated military than the

Libyans. They need help. Not just that. If we intervene in a big way,

it would cause trouble with I Iranians. We have lots more to talk

about with the Foreign Secretary. A great story, I think. Yes, my last

story. Europe draws up secret plan for inevitable, the second of Third

Secret ballot. They are saying the Germans admit they are drawing up a

plan for Greece leaving the euro. The truth is, it's probably the

only way Greece will be rescued. was unthinkable, unthinkable and,

oh, it has just happened! Thank you both very much for that. Well, some

frost on the ground this morning. But what the country needs, the

south of it anyway, is rain, rain, rain. Any chance of a bit of

precipitation to keep us lush and green this spring? Over to Chris

Thanks, Andrew. There's not a lot of that to go around today, that's

for sure. A dry day with prolonged spells of wintery sunshine. Not a

lot of water to top up those groundwater sources, that's for

sure. Most of us have the sunshine. Snow coming across northern

Scotland. To the West Midlands, perhaps a few snow showers on the

Salisbury Plain, but for most of us, a dry story with a fair bit of

sunshine. 4-7 degrees. Tonight, quite by sea in Scotland and a bit

of snow here. -- quite I see. To the south, it will be a widespread

frost. Temperatures down to-six Celsius. Monday, a completely

different day. Mild, wet and windy in the north and west. Temperatures

in Scotland saw up to eight-10 Celsius. Rising temperatures will

continue. The peak arriving on Thursday when we could have some

exceptionally mild weather. Temperatures could reach 16 or 17

degrees Celsius. That would be 63 degrees Fahrenheit, so not too much

rain. It is said to get a lot Many thanks for that.

Last week, the Governor of the Bank of England, Mervyn King, made clear

that he felt the greatest threat to the UK wasn't inflation or rising

unemployment, but the continuing uncertainty in the Eurozone. Well,

by tomorrow evening we should know the outcome of that crucial meeting

in Brussels, when European finance ministers decide what next to do

about the crisis in Greece. Again! A crisis that is causing the

greatest uncertainty of all within the EU. I'm joined now by the

Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls. Good morning. You were famously in

government, hostile to Britain joining the euro. What do you think

should happen now with a country like Greece? They are absolutely up

against it. And, really, serious rising anger about other people

turning the screw on them. It was the right decision for Britain not

to join the euro, that something William Hague and I can agree on.

What about Greece? It was wrong for them to join the euro because

unafraid Greece was at a different stage of development, not

integrated enough into the northern European ways, and they are paying

a huge price as a consequence. There is now no easy way forward.

I'm afraid simply to say Greece should lead the euro doesn't solve

the problem for the eurozone potentially, which is very

dangerous and destabilising, but for them to stay in the euro, and

the same for Spain, Ireland and Italy, too, means slow growth,

higher unemployment at a time when the German economy is not willing

to pull its weight. The politics of that is lethal, aren't they? It's a

dangerous situation. We have been here before. Countries locked

together in a deflationary environment, years of slow growth

and high unemployment. We saw it in the 1930s. History repeating itself.

It's important to learn lessons from that. Although there is no

good outcome, it would you agree it is inevitable Greece will go?

inevitable, but the reality is, Greece has not really engaged in

the global economy. They are propped up by public spending

resources from the rest of the area, which could carry on. It won't be

easy for the Greek economy. The real question, though, is what

happens in particular Spain and Italy. Unless the group default

which raises questions in the market. His Spain and Italy next?

Germany is not able to face up to the common obligations you need in

a single currency. That could lead to a crisis in the eurozone would

would be dangerous. If that does not happen, though, what is the

consequence? Along a protracted period of high unemployment and

slow growth. So it's better to have the crisis, in some respects than

the endless slow growth and political despair? Over the last

two years, the European leaders have failed to face up to what

needs to be done. They have got to the edge of a crisis and pulled

away. Our government has not given the lead it to sort this out. They

had seen it as a convenient excuse. As I understand it, Labour's policy

is that we will join the euro when the time is right. Do you think

it's time to go beyond that and say, actually, in my lifetime, no. If

I'm on the bridge, we will not join this thing ever. I think it's

inconceivable in this generation the UK will join the euro, but

having said that, I don't think in my political life tenders any

possibility of Britain joining the euro, nor should we because in the

end, the consensus, the institutions are there to make the

single currency work properly but not at the moment. Certainly not

for a country quite different in some aspects of its economy, to

Germany, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, even France. I don't

think we will join the euro, and I think was one of the most important

decisions we made in the last 10 years not to join it. And rich and

contribute money to the IMF bail- out? Depends what it's for. I'm a

supporter of the IMF. If they going to help with the Greek adjustment,

a Spanish difficulty, then we will support that, but if the IMF

funding is supposed to go in to substitute for the funding which

should come from the European Central Bank, because Germany says

we are not willing to fund the European Central Bank, that would

not only be the wrong thing but counter-productive. You can't go to

China and say please give us funding in Spain it because we are

not prepared to do that. It goes to a deeper issue, which is,

politically, Germany has not faced up to the reality it's in. They

have collective obligations in a single currency. They joined it and

have got to make the best of it. Let's go on to some shallower

issues for sublets talk about tax cuts. You said today, in your view

there is a strong case for tax cuts, and you would like to focus on VAT.

What about the Archer would David Davies was making. If you want to

create growth you have to look at corporation tax, even at the 50

pence rate also because that is what will drive more growth and get

jobs. Before you jump straight through my whole argument, can I

make the argument as to why this is important. There is a parallel with

the eurozone. We are still imposing upon ourselves, and austerity which

has turned out to be self-defeating. We can agree there is a big problem

of growth and jobs. If the Government borrows less, 158

billion million pounds, George Osborne says there is nothing they

can do. I say to him, its complacent and irresponsible. Let's

debate how we can act. I propose a temporary VAT cut. The Lib Dems as

a raised the personal allowance. David Davies says cut capital gains

tax or that we need to get the economy moving, good growth and

jobs back. If the only way to get the deficit down. I don't think

capital-gains tax will do the job. Does the stimulus used a debt means

the debt get even worse and the triple A rating is dead? Wouldn't

it have gone by now had the country been following other policies?

we discussed this many times. Let me have another go for that you can

get the deficit down through tax rises, spending cuts, and growth in

jobs for the if you do your tax rises and spending cuts, but crash

and destroy growth, and unemployment rises, the borrowing

does not come down but it stays high, and George Osborne is

borrowing �158 billion more than he planned a year ago because of no

growth. Let's just say, Tory backbenchers were rallying around

the idea of a cut in corporation tax, would the Labour Party support

them on the basis that any tax cut at this moment, any stimulus, was

better than none at all? David Davies talked about money the new

to the country. We have families under pressure with their living

standards falling. Hit hard by a VAT rise, and that's why confidence

is down, unemployment is rising, businesses are not investing. I

don't think a corporation tax cut or for people on incomes above

�50,000, will give the injection into the economy we need. The VAT

cut is the fastest way to temporarily boost to the demand and

bring confident. You can look at a rise in tax credits. There is a

separate debate about long-term reform, but you need action now and

nobody thinks cutting corporation tax will get families spending and

business is investing. Finally, one line, if you don't mind, if you

take power at the next election it will be in a situation where there

is no money and no new money. What is the Labour Party for in that

situation? First of all, whether or not there is money, the state of

the economy entirely depends on the decisions George Osborne makes

right now. That's what I am going to continue to talk about. Not bow

to pressure from backward looking credit rating agencies, which will

determine whether the inheritance is stronger or weaker. Secondly, if

we carry on the way we are, we will have higher unemployment and a we

get employment. The Labour Party is about a strong economy at making

decisions which are fair in difficult times, on energy bills,

the bank bonus taxes, youth jobs. There are many things we can't do

now. What is slightly odd, the economy is in trouble. And yet your

leader is not popular. If he stepped down, would you put your

hat in the ring? I don't think he will step down. I think he will win

the next general lection. I will back him 100%. Whether it's phone

hacking... We were hoping for a story there! The phone hacking,

responsible capitalism, he set the agenda and made the argument you

can have a fairness in tough times. He said it's not responsible to

carry on with excess other top when families are suffering. Even if

George Osborne... We have run out of time. Come back another time.

Thank you very much indeed, Ed How far should a film actor go to

put himself through what happens to his character? Oscar-winning actor

Denzel Washington has to undergo water boarding in his latest film,

genuinely very unpleasant, and he decided to do it for real. The two

CIA agents have to combine their skills in an often very violent

movie. I began by asking him about doing his own stunts. I did almost

all of my own stunneds. Stunt men are in some of the wider shots, but

the actual fights, that's me. something you would always do,

generally? Not if they didn't pay me. We had great martial artists to

work with us and to teachers what to do. The director really wanted

the fight to be really sloppy and dirty. We worked on it for three or

four months before we actually shot it. There is a sense, we should say

this film is about a CIA Safe House which is not as safe as it should

be! But there is a sense of panic at the beginning of the film which

has kept up, something to do with the music, the cutting, the pace of

it, we are not quite sure what's going on. There was a period of

about six months where we really worked hard on the script to get it

just so. I noticed your listed as a director as well. Executive

producer. What does that mean in practice? Absolutely nothing.

money? Yes! You're responsible for I only kill professionals. Quite

often you're involved in the writing of a film, is that because

so much of getting the film right is getting the script right? If it

ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage. That is an old saying. I'm

always asking, this doesn't make sense, I hate seeing a movie with

tremendous holes in it. So, I get involved. I have been doing that

now for the past 20 years, getting involved in developing the material.

At the heart of this film is the relationship between you, as the

older, slightly enigmatic guy. Watch it. Older, I said. And on the

other hand, the younger co-star, Ryan Reynolds. You spend a lot of

time hitting each other, but nonetheless, there is an intimacy

in the relationship. Yes, only because he's the only one left

alive that can help try to bring me in. And Tobin Frost is a master

manipulator, a traitor, a cheat, he takes advantage of this young pup,

but eventually he starts taking a liking to him, starts to warn him

about what's really behind the CIA, what his life is going to be like.

There is a horrible scene early on when your character is water

boarded, you did not do that, I take it? I did. What was it like? I

know that the late journalist Christopher Hitchens went through

that. It is... You will give up your secrets, that's for sure. It

is very disorientating. Once you get that water not only in your

nose and mouth, but actually into your eyes and everywhere, you will

tell something, it may not be the truth, but... In fact, that is one

of the things I have heard said about it, it will not necessarily

bring the truth out of you, you will just confess. Something will

come out, yes. You have done a lot of action films, but also very

often you have played the good guy as well. Do you prefer playing bad

guys? No preference. I had never been offered to play a bad guy

until Training Day, and then, after that, that is all I got offered.

That is all they want me to do now. But I try to mix it up. Of the more

violent and controversial films, the one which has intrigued a lot

of people was The Siege, because it got a lot of criticism when it came

out, for being too much, they said, they have gone too far this time.

And then of course, 9/11. Three days after 9/11, I was at Ground

Zero, I just had to go there. I am New Yorker, I just had to be there.

More than 15 times, I heard from people down there, this is not The

Siege, is it? When I was doing my research, they talk about this very

thing happening. They said that it was going to happen, and that it

was going to happen like that. spent a lot of your life doing good

works, giving money to charity, working with the youths of America

and so on, and you have said in the past, you could almost have been a

picture. You wonder whether you missed your vocation? Well, I was

told that I would preach. A woman told me years ago, before I started

acting, she said, you're going to travel the world, you're going to

speak to millions of people. And I have. So, I do not pretend to

suggest that my acting is preaching, but I try to send a good message,

and try to set a good example by the things I do outside of my films.

Can you explain to British people, the boys and girls Clubs of

America... After school youth programmes for kids. They say the

most dangerous time of the day, for young people, is between three and

six after school. If you're not a fleet, there is nothing to do.

you keep kids on the straight and narrow at that time of the day. Yes.

-- if you're not an athlete. You went to Military academy, how

important was that for you later in life? My three friends, who did not

go away to school with me, went to the penitentiary. Two of them did

more than 20 years in the system, one is dead. I am the only one that

did not do a day. I'm sure that my mother's decision to send me away

was the key. The kids have more or less left home, I think, you have

gone through that part of your life. Not yet, they're boomerangs, they

do come back. You have got one professional footballer. One is a

professional football player, who's also producing movies now. My

eldest daughter has just graduated from Yale, and then my twins, one

is an actress, and her twin brother is starting to make films. It is a

pretty impressive collection. take after their mother, of course.

For much of his political career, the Foreign Secretary, William

Hague, has been a leading opponent of the euro. As far back as 1998,

he warned that the single currency would fail, and that there would be

writing on the streets. And so it has happened. Ahead of another

crunch meeting for the Greeks, he joined me now. Welcome, Foreign

Secretary. The Greeks should leave the euro, democratically, it is

their only option... It is not easy, either way. This was one of the

problems in the creation of the euro, which I was pointing out

right back in 1998. You could make the argument either way, if you're

a Greek, you could say, let's take control of our own destiny, but on

the other hand, it is not straightforward to leave the euro.

There is no legal provision for a country to leave the euro and stay

in the European Union, at the moment. And they do not have the

old currency sitting in the vaults, waiting to be distributed. They

would have to take action to stop Euros leaving the country, maybe

have border controls. It was built with no exits, the euro. So, it is

not easy either way for them. We need to find an end to the

uncertainty. In terms of political principle, as a democrat, is it not

wrong that a country like Greece or Ireland finds its budget getting

discussed in the Bundestag before it is discussed at home? Well, that

is something we would never want in this country, which is one key

reason why we should never join the euro. I am absolutely clear about

that. I very strongly agree with that argument, but those countries

chose to join the euro. They did not all consult their own people

about it, of course. But their elected governments chose to join

the euro, and there are consequences to that, which is that

it does require closer integration, closer to political integration, it

cannot work without that. When Germany is in a currency like that,

it imposes on the others Germanic discipline, if they are going to be

able to stay in it for the long- term. You in the Foreign Office

have plans for what to do if Greece does leave the euro, and you must

regarded as a likely outcome? the Foreign Office, we prepare for

things whether they are likely or not. I am asking you what you think.

It would not be helpful for me to say whether it is likely or not. We

want an end to the uncertainty, and yes, we have prepared plans to help

British nationals who are there, we keep those plans up to date on a

daily basis. The best in Britain can do is to make sure that our own

finances are in that order. We are a safe haven, relatively speaking,

in international finance. We have given good advice to the eurozone

about what to do, some of which they are now doing. The European

Central Bank has been putting more liquidity into the European system.

You have given some pretty high- profile warnings about the future

for the Middle East, if Iran carries on with its nuclear

ambitions - from the point of view of Israel, given what the Iranians

have said about the future of the state of Israel, how could they

possibly allow Iran to have nuclear weapons? None of us want Iran to

have nuclear weapons. I don't think the wise thing at the moment is for

Iran -- is for Israel to launch a military attack on Iran, if that is

what you're suggesting. I think everybody in the world should be

giving a real chance to the approach we have adopted, which is

one of very serious sanctions and aggressive negotiation.

Israelis, it would seem, have been talking to the Americans about the

possibility of some kind of strike - have they been talking to you?

They're not softening you up for it? There has been some discussion

in public from Israeli politicians, from time to time, about this, so

they do discuss it with their friends and partners around the

world, but we are not part of any plan to... So when they come over

to speak to you, the Americans, they are not saying, by the way, we

might have to do this? No, we are not calling for any military action

against Iran, we are not part of any plans. We do not take any

option off the table. That would be unwise, but our approach is 100%

focused, diplomatically and economically, to bring Iran to the

negotiating table. The problem with that approach at the moment is that

it is not working. Far from it working, the Iranians are boasting

about how well they are doing at enriching uranium, and how fast

they are moving ahead, so, the sanctions, it may stop a lot of

ordinary Iranians from buying sugar and rice, but it is not affecting

the regime. Well, it will be affecting them in various ways.

They have indicated in the last few days a new readiness to negotiate.

Whether that will be meaningful, one has to be sceptical about, but

they will make bold statements if they are ready to negotiate. They

will not just do that because they are confident, they will also do it

if they are not very confident about the future. What I was saying

this weekend about the threat of a new Cold War is that it is not in

the interests of the Iranians to pursue this programme. But just to

be clear, your worry is that if the Iranians to have nuclear weapons,

then there will simply be an arms Either way, they will either be

attacked, and there will be a war, or there will be a cold war. Iran

is subject to these very intense economic sanctions, and they would

find other nations in the region develops nuclear weapons. There

would be a permanent stand-off with those countries. Like the Cold War,

but without the safeguards against misunderstanding that we had.

dangerous. This relates directly to the situation in Syria. There was

interesting article in the Sunday Telegraph today arguing we should

not be desperate to see President Assad removed because of civil war,

ethnic violence, Al-Qaeda debt already coming into Syria. With or

without it. I think it has lost credibility with some people,

President Assad's regime. We want political solution and that's why

the Arab League have put forward a successful political solution. It

requires the departure of President Assad from office. I don't think

Syria can be stabilised with him there. It is true it's a very

complex situation, though. Many sectarian difficult seas and

opposition groupings. That difficulties. It's not as

straightforward as Libya last year. There, there was united opposition

in control of part of the country. The effect of what we did in Libya

was quite minimal. Assyria is much more complicated. Even in the case

of Libya, things have not gone terribly well since then. A lot of

violence and tension even in that case. How worried are you about

what happens to Syria? Very worried. I'm worried they will slide into

civil war. And our powers to do something about it are very

constrained. We have not been able to pass a resolution in the

Security Council because of Russia and China. A great mistake on their

part. We will do many other things. We cannot intervene in Libya for

the reasons we have discussed but we will do other things. We will

come together in Tunisia. I will go there on Friday to meet my

colleagues in the Arab world. And Africans, USA. Together, we can

tighten the economic and economic stranglehold on President Assad. We

will intensify our links with the opposition. We will pass European

sanctions on Friday. It is different from Libya. Plenty of

people inside Syria you would not want to see as part of a future

regime, including Iranian-backed people, elements of Al-Qaeda?

Iranian-backed people will not be fighting the regime. But, yes, are

there many different types? Yes, there are. It's not as Clare and

opposition structure as in Libya. We would like to see them coming

together. We have advised them to come together. With a commitment to

democracy. Including Christian minorities in Syria, that's the way

to go. Clearly, there won't be British military involved, but if

people decide to get involved in Syria, were to be supportive of

that? We will not make a decision on that. Some stories over the last

week about the Iranians backing terrorist groups who might target

the West, including Al-Qaeda. They might even target the London

Olympics. There are no specific information about a threat to the

Olympics. Clearly, Iran has been involved increasingly in illegal

and potential terrorist activity in other parts of the world. We saw

the Iranian plot to assassinate the Saudi Arabian ambassador on

American soil. It is alleged that they have been involved in what

happened in the last week in New Delhi and Georgia and Bangkok. I

think Iran has increased its willingness to commit utterly

illegal activities, which is part of a danger they are presenting to

the peace of the world. Meanwhile, some very brave reporting involving

the area around Homs. Something has to be done to help the people there.

They are going through hell. help in many direct ways. On Friday

we are providing more humanitarian assistance, food rations for 20,000

people. Clear drinking water, the cost applies. -- medical supplies.

We can help people in that way. And we will help by being part of what

I hope will be a very strong international coalition to increase

the pressure on President Assad, and increase his isolation.

Speaking of international coalitions, Somalia. You are

bringing together a lot of people and, given the state of near

anarchy in that part of the world, a lot of people would say what's

the point of bringing together countries from around the world and

what do you hope to possibly achieve? This is our main drive in

the coming weeks on Somalia. We will host an international

conference on Thursday in London. Why is this important? The Somalia

has been the world's most failed state in the last 20 years. The

scene of the world's worst humanitarian catastrophe with close

to 100,000 people starving to death, potentially a base for terrorist

activities and pirates activities, which would be on an increased

scale if we don't do something. Now we have an opportunity because

things have improved a little bit. I was in Mogadishu a few weeks ago

and I saw for myself. We are in a position to bring the world

together to do the right thing, get the right political process,

improvement in the African forces there, international agreements on

counter-terrorism and piracy. We can do all of that and this is an

example of how, on the foreign policy, while we do with these

crises, we are not just reacting to events. We are trying to solve

problems before they get worse, to save lives, save ourselves having

to intervene at a later stage. This is high diplomacy is working.

deputy, couple of domestic questions. A lot of people look at

what's happening to the Health Bill, and say this is no longer a battle

worth fighting. Really, you have expended so much political credit

on this, what are you going to get back, is it worth it? It depends

how it works in the long term and the health service has to be

reformed to cope with all the pressures of an ageing population

for for this is no longer the bill to do it, is it? I think it is.

What to have already achieved in the health service since the last

election, 4,000 new doctors, and 4,000 fewer administrators. This

bill helps to make administrative savings, help the health service

and one more efficiency. Saving money. The finally, quickly, a lot

of coverage of civil servants, top people in other departments

positioning themselves for tax purposes as independent companies

and avoiding tax, including in HMRC itself. As a politician, how do you

regard that? I'm not fond of that behaviour. Sometimes people will

have agreed their own arrangements, over a long time. And that's their

contractual arrangements. They had their legal rights. Particularly at

this time, people should be paying their taxes. No doubt about that.

Thank you very much indeed, Foreign Secretary. Now over to Susanna for

the news headlines. The Foreign Secretary has expressed concern

about the Tareen situation in Syria. William Hague said he was worried

the country would slide into civil war. China said it supports

proposals by the Arab League to end the violence in Syria after its

diplomats visited the country for talks with President Assad. The

visit took place as activists a say security forces opened fire on a

funeral yesterday in Damascus. China recently be towed a UN

resolution condemning the Government crackdown on its

opponents. Speaking earlier on this programme, the shadow chancellor Ed

Balls has said that he does not expect Britain to join the Euro

"within his political lifetime". His comments come ahead of

tomorrow's crucial EU meeting in Brussels to decide the Greek

bailout. That's all from me for now. The

next news on BBC One is at midday. Back to Andrew and guests in a

moment. But first to Cambridge and Nicky Campbell with a look at

today's The Big Questions. Join us in Cambridge where we will be

asking, is Britain a Christian country? Professor Richard Dawkins

is here to debate that one. The BMA has asked for a debate on organ

donation and we ask, should it be easier to harvest organs for

transplant? Referring to the band Kasabian,

Noel Gallagher once said that, "If they do their job properly, you

won't need Oasis in a few year's time." Well, the rise of Kasabian

has been suitably impressive. And this month alone they are up for

Best Band at both the Brits and the NME Awards. Welcome. You have got a

new album, which is already almost nostalgic. You're looking back. You

have been friends since you with this high, since you small boys?

Yes, this is how we started, in our bedroom playing guitars. You are at

the top of the guitar bands at the moment. We live in a strange world

where it is R&B and so on. Yes, guitar music is pretty dead at the

moment. There's no guitar bands around. But it's good. Rock and

roll will come around for the we will hear it in just a moment.

Thank you very much indeed. That's all we've got time for today, I'm

afraid. Join us again at the same time next Sunday here on BBC One.

Until then, we leave you with # Doomed from the start.

# We met with a goodbye kiss. # I broke my wrist.

# It all kicked off. # I had no choice.

# You said that you didn't mind. # Cos love's hard to find.

# Maybe the days we had are gone. # Living in silence for too long.

# Open your eyes and what do you see?

# No more laughs, no more # Turning slowly.

# Looking back, see. # No words, can save this.

# You're broken and I'm... # Run along like I'm supposed to.

# Be the man I ought to. # Rock and Roll, sent us insane.

# I hope someday that we will meet # Giving it everyone.

# Now that's all done. # Cos we burnt out.

# Maybe the days we had are gone. # Living in silence for too long.

# Open you're eyes and what do you see?

# The last stand. # Turning slowly.

# Looking back, see. # No words, can save this.