03/06/2012 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning, good morning. Lots of loyal front pages today. Pictures

of the Queen looking happy at the races yesterday. I think the award

for the most imaginative friend page goes to The People. It is

dedicated to the people of our nation, it says, who never

knowingly missed a party. It talks about the 2500 miles of bunting,

the beer and champagne, and it finishes with 6 million sponge

cakes, lovingly prepared, 24 million off work. Stuff the economy,

it already is. 60 glorious years, all for one woman, God bless her.

Joining me for the review of the papers is Guardian columnist Polly

Toynbee, who it will probably be casting a sceptical eye over the

events of the weekend. And Rory Bremner will be, I hope, be

bringing some of the Royal Family along with him today.

David Cameron says he finds talking to the Queen very helpful. Just now,

he probably has quite a lot to unburden himself of. Bunting aside,

these are testing times for the Prime Minister. Recession, but just

U-turns, the Leveson Inquiry. I have been talking to him about

Jeremy Hunt, the Culture Secretary, and budget embarrassments. We will

hear his tribute to the Queen as well.

This morning, 1000 boats are mustering on the Thames ready for

the historic river pageant, which promises to be one of the most

spectacular events that London has seen for centuries, Republican rain

or not. I will be joined by the Pageant Master, Adrian Evans. Ahead

of Tuesday's Bic service, the Bishop of London discusses her role

as the head of England -- the Church of England. Can an

established church be defended in a place of many faiths and none? We

will hear how the Jubilee is being celebrated in Pakistan and a double

helping of music from Commonwealth musicians, who will be joining the

From Australia, the haunting sound of aboriginal singer Gurrumul. Then

a foot stomping finale from the African children's choir. So, lots

coming up. First, the news. Good morning. The Queen's Diamond

Jubilee celebrations will take to the water in a few hours' time when

a flotilla of 1000 boats set sail down the river Thames in London.

More than 20,000 people are taking part and the guest of honour will,

Nothing on the scale of today's pageant will have been seen for 350

years. The sheer number of vessels and people involved art hugely

ambitious. It is a challenging task for specialist police, who have had

to search London's bridges, with no modern precedent for such a huge

occasion. Security is high. Some of the boats which have not been able

to join the flotilla are moored in St Katherine's Dock, where people

got into the festive spirit. Some were so keen to be here this

weekend that they reserved way in advance. I can't wait, we booked

this over a year ago. We sailed down over the last three days.

booked about two years ago. We came from Norwich. We came down on

Thursday. This was the moment that marked the anniversary of the

Queen's coronation, yesterday. A 41 gun salute at the Tower of London,

which coincided with salutes fired from official points around the

country. But while many parts of the country will be celebrating

with big lunches and street parties today, all eyes will be on the

The Lebanese Prime Minister has visited the northern city of

Tripoli, where 10 people are reported to have been killed in

violent clashes. The fighting is between supporters and opponents of

President Assad of Syria. The United Nations peace envoy, Kofi

Annan, has already voiced fears that the violence in Syria could

spill into neighbouring countries. A British soldier who was killed in

Afghanistan Friday has been named as Corporal Michael Thacker from

Cwmbran in South Wales. The 27- year-old, who served with the 1st

Battalion, the Royal Welsh, was manning an observation post in the

now be so large -- Nahr-e Saraj district.

Thousands of Egyptians have spent the night protesting across the

country after verdicts in Egypt's so-called trial of the century.

Although Hosni Mubarak was given a life sentence, his two sons and six

former police commanders were cleared.

They are angry again in Tahrir Square. It was here, in just 18

days of protests last year, that the Egyptian people brought down

their President. A place of people power. But now the feeling is of

powerlessness. They have been here through the night, because, they

say, justice was not done in the trial of former President Hosni

Mubarak. A very disappointing judgment. The minimum sentence is

Hosni Mubarak was sentenced to life in prison for his role in the

deaths of 800 protesters during last year's revolution. The court

acquitted him of corruption and his sons and several of his senior

security officials got off. There is speculation that the prosecution

case against him was so poorly constructed that he could

successfully appeal. In the city of Alexandria, they

count -- Trent, down with military rulers. They feel that while

Mubarak has gone, too much of his regime is still in place. Some even

talk of the need for another revolution so that the people in

these pictures, last year's so- called martyrs, did not die in vain.

It was billed as the show which focused on talent rather than looks.

Last night, a former holiday camp singer from Lowestoft won the first

series of the BBC's The Voice. Leanne Mitchell, who had Sir Tom

Jones as her mentor, beat the favourites with her version of

Whitney Houston's Run To You. I will be back just before 10

o'clock with the headlines. Now, the front pages. As I say, it

is Queen, Queen, Queen. The Sunday Times has no headline at all. Just

a very large picture of her. A bold bit of front page editing. The

Sunday Telegraph, they had a version of the same picture and an

opinion poll saying that she is officially our greatest ever

monarch. She beats Victoria, 35% to 24%. The other big story, the SAS

freeing hostages in Afghanistan. The bad news continues for Baroness

Warsi. Lots of royal front pages. The Sunday Mirror, The Sun, a rat

husband dumps Myleene Klass. Something slightly different!

Jubilee everywhere? You must feel like Richard Dawkins on Christmas

Day. A bad day for Republicans. hope that the weather picks up.

Prince Charles was saying, this rain, when it is it going to stop?

It isn't the most tactful thing, today. Yes, it is everywhere. The

expressed, page 1-93, they are talking about the pageant.

Interesting, you look through for various views about the Queen. What

comes through, it is the durability of her own personal success, her

own personal story. She has no time to relax. I was reading your book

last night, because I have had I think you once started out as a

Republican but you only have to follow her around for a couple of

days to see how hard she works. A lovely picture of Ken Clarke. He

looks more and more in a vicar in Jane Austen, he wakes up and says,

yes, capital, capital, and falls back asleep. I rather like the idea

of Cameron saying that we are all in the same boat together. Prince

Philip saying, not today, we are bloody not! There is a lot of

Republican... There is some republican argument in today's

papers? There is going to be a big republican demonstration later in

the day? 1:30pm, City Hall. Tony Benn, Peter Tatchell, George

Galloway, they will fall off the bridge and caused a smash -- splash.

Social mobility? Not while we have hereditary monarchy. The meaning of

it all remains painfully elusive. Amongst Republicans there is a

sense that celebration is great, wonderful having street parties and

great national events, but if only it were for Shakespeare's birthday

or for the Magna Carta. There is a kind of emptiness at the heart of

all of this. The old lady has stayed on the throne for 60 years,

terrific. But it doesn't have real meaning. Does it express who we

are? If so, his hereditary what we are about? We are trying to reform

the House of Lords, not likely to happen. I was very interested,

there is almost a postcode differential. My bits of London

have lots of street parties. But in north London, almost nothing, I am

told. Here, have one of these. That is the intellectual argument.

move on to the next story. What else have we got? Jeremy Hunt. This

is quite extraordinary. This is the Leveson Inquiry. There is a feeling

that, for the moment, he has got off scot-free. I find that quite

extraordinary. It may surface again. Nick Clegg has not ruled out that

he will possibly back a plan by Labour MPs to force this to go to

the Commissioner, the adviser on the ministerial code. This is

Jeremy Hunt's contribution to the Jubilee, a 21 smoking gun salute.

If a judge had been disqualified from conducting an inquiry on the

grounds he was biased, but his successor publicly and privately

supported one of the parties in the case, on the morning he was

appointed he had run up the person involved to say good luck, then

during the course of the inquiry he was sending text messages to the

Duke executive, 532 times. -- chief-executive. While his clerk

was leaking secret information. There would be a massive uproar.

It's impossible to prove that Jeremy Hunt did not put all of that

to one side in his head. We are into Bird and Fortune territory. I

had a meeting with myself and I made sure that I sent myself out of

the room. It's ridiculous. The only reason he is still there is to

protect David Cameron. He will run into trouble. At some point you

will have to make a decision on something important and his

judgment will be called into question. He might scrape through

the Olympics but I imagine he will be reshuffled. You would argue that

a more important story is the outcome of the Budget. There is a

lot about George Osborne? Very interesting. The Conservatives seem

to have their names out for George Osborne. A number of Tory papers.

Here we have an anonymous Tory backbencher, and absolutely

excoriating attack on him. His budget, in the last week, try to

hide it behind the jubilate and all of that, three more U-turns. Of

course, no U-turns on the thing that really matters. His austerity,

his economic policy, which has led us into double-dip recession.

all sorts of reasons, including what is going on in Spain, we are

at a very dangerous time economically. It's interesting.

There is proper commentary on that in the papers. Not a great deal on

the Jubilee, but there is sudden? was stopped by the police for doing

a U-turn. Instead of finding you, they should commend you on your

bravery in changing direction. He's not the most popular person. Will

Hutton has written an excellent piece about austerity? A brilliant

piece, a wonderful quote from a distinguished columnist. There is

zero chance of austerity working. It's like thinking you can escape

from gravity by waving your arms up and down. All over Europe, it is

quite clear that this cruel austerity experiment has failed.

Yet there is no U-turn on the thing that really matters. That is the

observe a? I think you have a piece from the Independent? -- the

Observer. This goes back to the heart of Downing Street. Mrs David

Cameron's adviser, not coming back from California. He has an unpaid

sabbatical. So, we have one adviser, one person very close, a Chancellor,

George Osborne, very much having a bad weekend, a very badly held in

terms of the steam. His top adviser, Steve Hilton, not coming back. He

He was very much the radical incumbent in the inner circle?

is the unravelling of the Government over the past few weeks.

The past attacks, the list goes on. Meanwhile, interesting developments

with the Liberals, they are showing some signs of getting back together.

Backstairs conversations going on between leading Lib Dems and Labour

people. Lord Adonis, who was one of the Labour people who tried to

negotiate the Liberal packed when it fell apart and was very angry

with them, is now making his peace with them and Menzies Campbell and

various others... A very wise and absolutely essential. This is

genuinely going on? I have heard about this. Not that associations,

but there are lots of problems. If the Lib-Dems are wiped out at the

next election, if those Labour voters and Lib Dem seats in the

south-west do not go on giving their votes to the Lib Dems, they

will be wiped out. That makes it more likely that the Conservatives

will get the majority. Labour needs to have a reasonably amicable

relationship and hope that their voters in seats that Labour cannot

win continued to give votes to the Lib Dems. Sorry to bring up the

Jubilee again but 60 years ago of the Liberals and down to 2.5%. In

the 1951 election. And the Conservatives got through, partly

through the help of that amount of Liberals because the party

collapsed. The other huge story before we finish is Syria. The date

is a problem for the West because we hate what is going on and

everybody thinks it is tenable, the stories, and yet, after what has

happened in other parts of the Middle East, with Western

intervention, there is a sense of not wanting to do it again. Malcolm

Rifkind in the sun, not by natural liver, says that we should

intervene. -- not my natural Kippur. The Observer is quite mad, most of

the wise heads say you could make things worse if the West does the

wrong thing. In any way, there is no UN support because of China and

Russia. We are left again on the sidelines, watching the horrors,

but we could make it worse so sometimes standing back is the

right thing. There could be civil war? If that is already happening.

But that could just go on and on. If everybody piles were weapons

into the place. If the Western Paras are not going to war and one

not get the Turks to do their dirty work, they should push for power

sharing. This will be difficult for the Russians to oppose and will

lead to fears of Iran. The alternative is a long war that

would tear Syria apart. No simple solution. Not every good question

has a good answer. We have nothing to cheerful -- nothing cheerful to

end on. Thank you both very much. I'll be talking to the man at the

centrepiece of this weekend's events with the Thames pageant but

the most important question is, Not a particularly great day. It is

very grey and misty at the moment down on the Thames and there will

be further rain on and off, including during the patch and

period but that will ease off every now and again, not a complete

washout but that wind direction, the easterly wind bringing chilly

conditions. Particularly across parts of East Anglia and the

Midlands and North Wales and then to Merseyside, and Yorkshire.

Further heavy showers to come, the best weather in Scotland and

developing into Northern Ireland and the far north of England but

confirmation of a cold day. Around nine or 10 degrees. The wetter

weather goes towards the Continent tonight, lingering into first light

in the south-east corner. Clear conditions into bank holiday Monday

but compared with today across England and Wales, vastly improved.

The cloud will break up and southern areas, one or two showers

through eastern England in particular but most places will

have a dry bank holiday Monday with bright, sunny weather around and

temperatures recovering. 12 on the East and 16 in the West but after a

bright start on Tuesday, more wet The man was surely the best job

title today is Adrian Evans, the Pageant Master of that regatta, the

Armada which will progress through London. This is the culmination of

years of preparations and it is his big day. We are grateful to him for

joining us from Battersea Park. Good morning. How do you feel?

feeling great! Tension levels are good. After all this time, to

finally see those boats on the Thames, it just lifts the spirits.

Some rain and all was the enthusiasm around, nose But it's

dampened. We are used to the rain. You have everything from a pop up

pub to fantastic musical events? But 1000 vessels ready to go?

Absolutely. They have been converging into London from all

over the UK and some of the stories I have heard from some of those has

been extraordinary. I was talking to one other chaps yesterday, who

found out only yesterday that their vessel was part of the Coronation

flotilla. The story unfolds at every step with these boats.

Explain, one of the problems with the Thames as a place of

transportation is the tide is so high. Something very special has

happened today? Normally speaking, the water level rises by seven

metres, twice a day. That is the shift of the tides. We have

negotiated with the Environment Agency and they have to close the

barrier once a year to service debt and they agreed to pull forward

that servicing day to coincide with the pageant. So the Thames barrier

will start to close in about half an hour. It should be fully closed

by 10:30am and that will still the tides. The water will be 1.8 metres

below the high water mark and it will make the what a benign for the

day. What do you think is the image from this regatta? That people

carry with them? For me, the biggest moment is a royal barge.

She is absolutely stunningly converted. She is a palace on the

water. And would say. Than the traditional state barge from those

images. The craftsmanship involved with the canape and the floral

displays themselves, absolutely breathtaking. The Queen herself

welcome on a boat that was part of the Royal Yacht Britannia, which

she loved so much? I was very keen to integrate Britannia into the

pageant. Three vessels have come down and they would re-enact what

used to happen when she would transfer from shore or to ship. She

was step aboard the Royal barge of Britannia, conveyed to the eventual

transfer from Britannia's Royal barge on to the Royal barge for the

day. You have some wonderful music can? Including an ancient Scottish

Pipe Band but also a floating Belfry? What is that about?

fortunately contacted the White Chapel bell foundry and said if

they had any orders for the Jubilee and there was one. Eight Bells

being commissioned for the City church of St James. Unfortunately

again, the churchwardens have allowed us to borrow their bells

for today's flotilla. I have designed a floating Belfry and

those bells will peel from the Thames, heralding the start of the

procession. The idea from all of these music barges, 10 of them,

going back to the London Philharmonic Orchestra at the tail-

end. Clearly, this harks back to the great processions of the first

Queen Elizabeth. Do you think it might encourage people to use the

Thames more in the future? A lot of the time it seems under-used.

think so. The relationship between London and its river has changed

enormously over the last 30 years. It used to be permitted and we

turned our back on it, effectively. It is now the cleanest metropolitan

river in the world and we are proud of it and we have this wonderful

walkways, fabulous architecture and the flotilla today is the icing on

the cake for the regenerated Thames. I must ask about the weather, we

can see that it looks a little bit like a painting by Monet at the

moment, all green and hazy? Like Whistler. It will burn off. There

are so much patriotic enthusiasm and pride in all of those taking

part that I think all that will reflect off the river and into the

hearts of the millions along the river bank. Pageant Master, thank

you very much for joining us and good luck! All of the Queen's most

important roles has not been discussed much among the

celebrations and that is as head of the Church or Supreme Governor of

the Church of England. The position dates back to the time of the first

Queen Elizabeth when the Protestant Anglican Church was established.

The Bishop of London is one of the most senior figures in the Church,

staying very close to the royal family and he gave the address at

the Royal wedding last year. I have been speaking to him about the

relationship between the Church, state and monarchy. When the Queen

was crowned she became defender of the faith. What does that mean?

is a title given in Latton in which there are no definite articles. The

actual title can mean defender of faith or defender of the faith. In

contemporary England, it was made clear by the Queen earlier this

year when she spoke about the Palace and it is that she

recognises the extraordinary contribution of faith in

communities generally to the spiritual health and vigour of this

community, this nation. But she does so from the point of view of

belonging to one of them. To one of those faiths. There was a kerfuffle

when the Prince of Wales said, many years ago, that he wanted to be

known as defender of Faith, when he became monarch. But that would not

necessarily be a problem for the Church of England? He has

subsequently made it clear, very clear, what he means and it was

utterly accurate as a translation of the Latin. And that means that

the Prince of Wales sees very clearly important contributions of

faith communities but that certainly does not in any way call

into question his membership of one of them, the Church of England.

there has been a process of reform applied to the monarchy recently.

It isn't acceptable for the heir to the throne to marry a Catholic, for

instance. And women and men will have the same rights of succession.

Is there a danger of starting to pull away at the original Act of

Settlement and make these kinds of changes? Does it start to draw into

controversy, other aspects of the relationship between the Church and

the monarchy? The essential thing isn't something negative, excluding

people on the basis that they -- that no longer exists, not to say

it is impossible for people belonging to a certain Church to

come to the throne because that Church has changed. But what is

essential is to whoever is on the throne should subsequently

subscribe actively been the parliamentary democracy that has

developed over the centuries. are people who say, look, at the

moment there are more Roman Catholics in this country going to

church and Anglicans. It would be a good thing for the Church of

England to lose its special place and be out there, fighting

alongside the other churches and the Pentecostal Church, it would

revive the Church of England? of the reasons the establishment of

the Church of England is so explicitly supported by people like

the Chief Rabbi and by people like the distinguished Muslim political

scientist is that an minimal Anglican establishment is a way of

serving the whole constituency and keeping the voice of faith in the

public square. What we are facing, as you know, is an attempt to

exclude the voices of any faith community, not talking about some

sort of conflict within, we are talking about the real attempt to

relegate to the margins of life the I think it is a clear danger. I'm

not hysterical about it. I think we would Yuri foolish to exaggerate --

the very foolish to exaggerate the extent to which this is the case.

When there is an attempt to ban something like prayers before the

meeting of Bideford Council, it is so evidently observe that it is a

terrific own goal. -- absurd. We have a different tradition from

people in the Continent. We want the voice of faith in the public

square. This is the important thing. One of the important effect of that

is that we do not have religious communities speaking words Offiah

amongst consenting adults offstage. They have to justify what they

believe in the course of reason and general discourse. But the Church

of England has a particular role here. People pay more attention to

what is being said at Synod and between bishops, perhaps, than they

do with other churches and other faiths. That is why when you have

arguments about gay priests or gay bishops, or indeed female bishops

inside the church, it has so much more resonance? We have public

arguments because we are not a very command and control institution. We

are a massive leap devolved institution. We have arguments on

behalf of the rest of the community. These are important social

questions. The fact we are having arguments about them is another way

in which the Establishment is serving the general good. You know

the Royal Family well. You have been close to them for a long time.

What do you make of the argument that we still hear from time do

time that actually the succession should pass directly to Prince

William? Avoiding his father? Is that completely out of court, that

kind of talk?, Dean of the Chapel Royal to muse on such a thing would

be treason. I would be off to the tower straight away. The Diamond

Jubilee of Queen Victoria in 1897, republican sentiment in the country

was far more pronounced. It was far more generally felt that it is now.

There are all sorts of celebrations around this weekend, at different

times. A very important service in St Paul's over the a road from

where we are talking. Tell us a little bit about that. That is a

fascinating contrast to 1897, again. We also had a service them. But

Queen Victoria was actually younger than our present mark. Could not

get up the steps. She could not get out of her carriage. The carriage

came to the bottom of the great steps of St Paul's. It was the

clergy, the Quaye and the congregation that came out, and we

had it in the open air. I must conclude by asking when the Church

are looking for a new Archbishop of Canterbury, we read that you have

ruled yourself out? I put myself up for election to the body which

chooses the new Archbishop of stopped which means you cannot be a

candidate? What happened is that when they sent be the first date,

it was a date in which I was welcoming the new Dean of St Paul's.

I'm afraid I was not able to take that course. It would be very

strange for the Archbishop to retire to make way for an older man.

Thank you very much indeed for speaking to us.

So, what do you give to the woman who probably has everything she

wants as a Diamond Jubilee present? One answer is apparently the

official Diamond Jubilee song, written by Andrew Lloyd Webber and

Gary Barlow, who has devised a huge concert from Buckingham Palace. The

song features 200 musicians from around the Commonwealth. We are

going to be hearing from one of them, the aboriginal singer

Gurrumul. Here is a glimpse of him Well, Gurrumul and his friend and

become pianist Michael Hohnen are Tell us about where Gurrumul comes

from, it is not what we would think of as mainland Australia? It is a

picturesque, idyllic island, from the north coast of Australia.

Gurrumul does not speak English, which is why we are talking to you.

The song is written in his language and it refers to the island as

well? It does. It refers to his people. If you like, it is a

patriotic song just for his plan. Talking of patriotic songs, what is

the reputation of the Queen amongst Aboriginal people in Australia?

They revere her. She has been around so wrong, she is on a coin,

her head is on the money. She is revered very highly by people.

we are going to see Gurrumul playing his guitar in an unorthodox

way? When he was growing up on the island, all of the guitars were

strong for people who are right handed. So he just picked it up,

flipped it upside down because he is left-handed, and taught himself

to play. Being blind, he didn't know which way it was meant to be

played? He is going to be playing later, for the Queen? He will be

playing the song for the Jubilee. He also sings in that song. Let's

hear the song that you are going to be playing. Fantastic. Thank you

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 123 seconds

Fantastic. Later, many people are going to be settling down to

slightly damp lunches at street parties. Special lunches are being

held in Commonwealth countries as well, including Pakistan, where the

weather is slightly different. is 43 degrees. These people have

still managed to come out for lunches around the Commonwealth.

There was a band going a short while ago. We have a lunch going on,

here. The jubilee lunch with chicken Derry Arnie. We have a

couple of guests to talk about this. I think she symbolises the

historical past with the country. Particularly the head of state,

concerned about culture, values. When she came she was concerned

about the religious values of the people. She came to the mosque, she

took off her shoes, she covered her hair and she was very polite. She

was interested in the mosque, the structure and architecture. She was

also concerned about why we have these inscriptions. It indicates a

desire to learn about the people. You have a personal connection,

having met her. Let's speak to somebody here, 11 years old, he is

the drummer in the school band. You were not born when the Queen came

here. What does she mean to you? She is very polite and a very

honest woman. I like her very much. She is very much respected. And you

remember why you are celebrating? Because the Queen has ruled England

for almost 60 years. Very well remembered. Thank you very much. I

will let you into a tiny secret, he was not entirely sure why he was

here today, well remembered. They are not that many events like this

going on in Pakistan. When the last one came along, the Royal Wedding,

about 20 Pakistani channels were showing the event live. People

across the country were gripped, mesmerised by the pageantry. I'm

sure it will be the same today, not just here but across the

Commonwealth. The Queen must be one of the most

recognisable figures in the world. Her image is certainly everywhere

this weekend. We feel that we know her, but do we really? What is she

really like? I spent some time last year following her around, filming

here at home and abroad for the Diamond Queen series. Two themes

which came across very strongly were how skilfully the Queen has

adapted the monarchy to the modern world and the importance of her 65

year marriage to Prince Philip. The support that he gives to my

grandmother, it is phenomenal. Regardless of whether my

grandfather is what seems to be doing his own thing, or wandering

off down the river, the fact that he is there, I personally don't

think she could do it without him. Especially when they are both at

the Sage. There is quite a lot of pressure Ron somebody like me, as a

junior boy coming through, because of the example of the Queen has set

while she is still there, providing such a good example. It allows me

to learn, to develop and understand better what the role play is. I

think that she defines it brilliantly. Every time I find

myself whingeing about why I have to put on a dinner jacket and do

this and that, recently I have been thinking, actually, I can't

complain. At the end of the day, she put this country way before

anything she would ever want to do. It is her job, understandably. But

at a very young age she was put in a position, I would love to see

anybody handle that. I don't think there would be able to as well as

she has. The Queen has managed to bring the monarchy into the 21st

century, as best as she can. Every organisation needs to look at

itself. The monarchy is a constantly evolving machine. It

really wants to reflect society and move with the times. It is

important that it does, for its own Outside her family and the Royal

Household, the person who probably sees most of the Queen is the prime

minister. They meet every week to queue -- she wove a national and

world events for at least an hour, entirely alone. It seems to be

something of a therapy session for occupants of Number Ten. The Queen

is the only person that they can trust not to leak their innermost

thoughts and concerns. David Cameron is her 12 prime minister

and I spoke to him at Downing Street about the relationship.

Prime Minister, when you first went in to see the Queen after the

election, you were not quite sure if he would be Prime Minister or

what kind of government, if any, you would be leading. Did you come

out of the meeting feeling It was an extraordinary feeling

going into Buckingham Palace and making her Majesty. And being asked

to form a government but doubly extraordinary because I had to say,

I'll do my best and I cannot guarantee I'll do. But she was

reassuring and did manage to come to pass but it is an extraordinary

moment because you are treading were 12 prime ministers have been

before. And new for her, the thought of a coalition. It has been

a tough couple of years for the country. How would you job have

been different had do not have the Queen there, week by week? It is

very important for a Prime Minister, I find it a huge benefit to have

one hour every week were you go to see her Majesty and you set out the

big issues of the week. It will normally involve one or two foreign

affairs or defence issues but also domestic. Not just you reporting?

It is a conversation. It is very helpful because when you set out to

someone who has heard everything like this before, who has seen

crisis coming I'm going, governments coming I'm going, when

you set out the approach you are taking and why you think you need

to do things, with her huge experience, she always seems to cut

through a all the nonsense and get to the key common sense. That

really matters about things. About foreign affairs, enormous

experience. 261 foreign visits in 60 years, 116 countries. There is

hardly a head of state she has not met. She has huge amounts of

knowledge and experience. She is a formidable lady, physically as well

as in other ways. But she is getting on, do you think after this

Jubilee Parade there will be a different way of managing the

monarchy? My experience is she is someone who seems to have enormous

physical strength. She is incredibly good and strong and in

health and her insight, her sharpness is extraordinary. Having

watched her as a politician and as Prime Minister, I do not see any

sign of her working less hard. She is extremely devoted as a public

servant, to her paperwork and duties. You never see her saying, I

am going to step back. I often see her at the end of the day when she

has travelled to the furthest corner of the UK, she has held end

vestiges in Buckingham Palace and has said goodbye to ambassadors and

she still has time for the Prime Minister to tell her all of us

problems! Do you think therefore that abdication is completely out

of the question and do you think that the idea of going... Skipping

a generation to Prince William, is that out of the genera -- out of

the question? I think so, in pursuing her duties, she has been

100% dedicated, professional and it is hard to think ever put in any

foot wrong and you get the sense that she will go on doing the

amazing job she has done for this country as long as she possibly can

and you never see any sign of that devotion getting any less. We have

the pageantry coming over the wall at the moment. How do you think

Britain would have been different as a country, had we not had a

monarch as well as the Prime Minister? We would have had less

stability. One of the great things that a royal family brings Attar

Majesty the Queen personally brings is the sense of national unity and

stability, someone who the whole country can identify with. It does

not matter whether people are Labour or Conservative or Liberal

Democrat, at the head of the state there is somebody that the whole

country can look up to, a symbol of national unity and continuity that

links British people with our institutions and history and our

relationships with other countries and the Commonwealth. All of those

things up to anchor us. It is a great source of strength. Domestic

issues. No budget in living memory has seen so many parts of it

unravelling so quickly. What lessons have you learnt for the

future? They first thing to say is that the heart of the budget were

two very important things. Delivering a tax cut to every

working person in the country by lifting the threshold at which you

start to pay income tax, which means taking 2 million people out

of paying tax altogether. And we did cut the top rate of tax because

you cannot run an enterprise economy if you are uncompetitive.

What about the mistakes? We had to make changes. What about say is,

when you have something wrong, there are two things you can do,

you can ploughed on regardless or you can listen and change and get

it right and that is what we have done and that is the right thing.

Some people would say that it looks week? We have taken very difficult

decisions. On the deficit, which be cut by one quarter in two years, on

public sector pay, reforming public sector pensions, standing up to

public sector strikes. Nobody thinks this Government lacks

resolve, strength and great. And it also has the courage to say, if we

got something wrong, let's change it. After Jeremy Hunt's evidence to

the Leveson Inquiry, you clear to him at lightning speed. Some people

would say that the reason for that is that, given his closeness to the

Murdoch BSkyB made, in a sense, it was not his fault, he was put in an

impossible position and the person whose fault it was was the person

who gave him the job? I did not -- I did not want to give anyone the

job, I wanted to give Vince Cable a job, the person appointed as

Business Secretary. I had to change things because Vince Cable said he

was going to war, privately, with an important media company. If he

had gone to war with the BBC or British Telecom, I would have been

under huge pressure. I had to take a decision and I listened carefully

to the advice that I had and the most straightforward thing to do

was to transfer that part of his responsibility into the most

closely related department, the Department of Culture Media and

Sport. I looked carefully at what Jeremy Hunt said publicly and I

took the advice of the Cabinet Secretary, who took legal advice,

and what he said publicly was more powerful than anything he said

privately and on that basis, and given the job. The key thing is, if

you look at how he conducted that job, how he gave himself very small

room to move or - burkha to manoeuvre in terms of on and that

bid process, and we reached those conclusions. You can also see the

very friendly tone of this text messages on the very day that he

was getting the job, that does not look good. Had he known about that,

would you have taken the same decision? The advice and was given

was what mattered was not what Jeremy Hunt said publicly or

privately but how he was going to conduct himself during the bid.

That is how we should judge him. Did he adjudicate this wisely and

fairly? He did, he took legal advice, at every stage and he

followed that legal advice, and he did many things that are not in the

interests of BSkyB. And that's out of things. And I think he give a

very good account of himself to the Leveson Inquiry, a good account of

himself to Parliament and that is the key thing. He is now safe in

his job. In the job at Christmas? We are about to welcome not only

the Jubilee celebrations this weekend but also the world with the

Olympics and I think the preparations which the department

has overseen have been very good but there is still vital work to do

to keep the country safe and keep the transport arteries moving and

make sure those Olympic Games are a success and Jeremy Hunt is the

right person. Thicker. You might have noticed the military band

accompanying David Cameron from the other side of the wall. That was a

rehearsal for the Trooping the Colour. Now the news headlines...

The Prime Minister insists the Government has resolved strength

and great, despite the recent U- turn over the government -- the

budget. David Cameron defended Jeremy Hunt, saying he had given a

good account of himself to the Leveson Inquiry and was the right

person to much of the Olympic Games is a success. He also paid tribute

to the Queen on her Diamond Jubilee, saying that her insight and

shoppers were extraordinary and he described her as an extremely

devoted public servant. A British soldier who was killed and

Afghanistan on Friday has been named as Corporal Michael Thacker

from South Wales. The 27 year-old is served with First Battalion the

Royal Welsh was manning an observation post in a district in

Helmand Province when his patrol came under attack. And the Queen's

Diamond Jubilee celebrations will take to the water in a few dollars.

Some of the 1000 boats that will sail down the River Thames already

mustering, with and 20,000 people are taking part in the pageant and

many more are expected to line the banks of the river to see the

historic procession. That's all for now, the next news is at 1pm. Back

to Andrew but first, and look at what is coming up after the show...

Clones and Glasgow, as Kofi Annan except Syria is on the brink of

civil war. Is it immoral not to intervene? And as a Scottish

Parliament votes to protect Scotland in the welfare reforms,

should benefit be different in Scotland? And a host of playwrights

and journalists and this great audience will chip in with

questions. Is the Jubilee showing Britain at its best? Andrew?

heard from the Aboriginal musician Gurrumul earlier. And he will be

performing in that great concert tomorrow. Another group involved is

the African Children's Choir, which helps orphans and vulnerable

children and its founder is with me. Welcome. Tell us about how the idea

for this came about? It is back to 1984. East Africa, the famine, the

northern part of Uganda was ridden with that famine. By got

discouraged by seeing all of those famine pictures and I had the idea

that the world needed to save how bright, beautiful and dignified the

African child was. So we formed the choir and started to ring in 1984

or to help all children who were vulnerable. And whereabouts are you

based? Well, there are different bases. Uganda, Kenya, South Africa.

And I particularly... Where are you from? Uganda. Are you excited about

tomorrow? Yes, I am excited. It is going to be a wonderful moment. We

will hear from all of you in the second. Thank you. That's all we

have time for. Join me again next Sunday when it will be back to