10/06/2012 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning. After the Jubilee celebrations, some are looking

forward to the future of the monarchy. There's a strange

coincidence of stories in this morning's Sunday Times. A poll

showing Prince Charles, not Prince William, is now most popular choice.

That has not happened for long time and then you turn inside. Second, a

story revealing that plants, corn saplings to be precise, not only

make sounds, little clicks, but when the sounds are played at them

by loudspeakers, respond. They can here. It was of course Prince

Charles who once perhaps unwisely revealed that he liked to talk to

plants and "they respond, I find." Cue much laughter. Well, the world

is most stranger than we think. Joining me today for our review of

the Sunday newspapers we have media old and new. Philip Collins writes

for The Times. And Carla Buzasi is Editor in Chief of The Huffington

Post UK. That's the online newspaper. So with another 100

billion euros earmarked to help Spanish banks, 100 billion, just

what can be done to get our struggling economies moving again?

One man who knows about growth is Sir Terry Leahy who made Tesco by

one measure, the world's third biggest retailer. He'll tell us

about how he did it. And answer claims that Tesco has hollowed out

the High Street. And of course, one consequence of the eurozone chaos

may be further migration into Britain. The Home Secretary Theresa

May will reveal new plans to bring the numbers down. The government's

failed so far. And we'll be talking to her about whether British voters

deserve their own say, a referendum, on Europe. Speaking of European

immigrants to Blighty, the fictional Belgian detective Hercule

Poirot never had to worry about that kind of thing. David Suchet is

planning a new series and he has a play in the West End as well. As

England prepare for their opening Euro 2012 match in Ukraine tomorrow,

racism threatens to cast a shadow over the tournament. The Chairman

of the Players Union tells us what he thinks the authorities should do.

Finally, the Queen of Indie Pop, getting ready to headline more

festivals this summer. Florence and her Machine are here with a

stripped down version of one of their new songs. Busy morning.

Let's kick off with the news with Good morning. The Chancellor,

George Osborne, has warned that the debt crisis in the Eurozone is

killing off Britain's chances of economic recovery. In an article in

the Sunday Telegraph, he says he's frustrated that EU leaders have

failed to stabilise the single currency. His comments come as

officials in Washington and Berlin welcomed Spain's request for

financial help from the eurozone for its troubled banks.

After repeated denials that it needed international help, last

night, Spain admitted what many had feared, that it would seek a bail-

out for its ailing banks. After a call to European finance ministers

that lasted two-and-a-half hours, Spain's economy minister confirmed

the country would ask for support from Europe. But Spain is keen to

point out that this is not a rescue. There are no tough conditions

attached like those demanded of Greece. Spain, though, has not said

how much it will need. Despite reports it could be as much as 100

billion euros. Instead, Spain will wait for the result of an audit due

within the next two weeks. TRANSLATION: No other system in

Europe is as transparent or clear. We will see the figures and from

then on we will go on into the details. But the financial markets

could deliver a verdict much sooner than that audit. Spain is the 4th

largest economy in at the eurozone and that is worrying for investors.

They are likely to judge whether Spain has done us when trade begins

The spotlight then shipped back to Greece where voters go to the polls

again. That has been seen as a referendum on the euro. It may

bring clarity to Greece, but could equally plunged Europe back into

turmoil. People in France are voting today, in the first round of

parliamentary elections. The result will determine whether the new

President, Francois Hollande, is able to push through radical tax

and spending policies, to try to tackle the government's deficit,

without cutting welfare budgets. More rain is expected in Wales

today, and one flood warning remains in place, because of high

river levels. A clean up has started after severe flooding

yesterday led to a major rescue operation. About 1,000 people were

forced to leave their homes after five inches of rain fell in 24

hours. The number of people affected by

the outbreak of Legionnaires disease in Edinburgh has risen to

36. One person has died and 15 are in intensive care. Health officials

expect the number of cases to start falling this week. They are still

trying to confirm the source of the infection.

Children at all primary schools in England will learn foreign

languages, if a proposed overhaul of the national curriculum goes

ahead. The Education Secretary Michael Gove says making language

lessons compulsory for the first time would help future generations

compete in a global economy. There are also plans to change the way

English is taught, with a greater emphasis on spelling and grammar.

That's all from me, for now. I'll be back just before ten o'clock

Thank you, Naga. Now, on the front pages today. Everyone has different

stories this morning. The Telegraph has the George Osborne story and a

picture of Guantanamo Bay. The Mail on Sunday has gone for top stores

being attacked for allowing people to gamble while they are shopping

online. The Observer newspaper has a picture about something we will

talk about later on. A young people have to rent rather than buy houses.

The world has changed for them. Lots of football, of course. Roy

Hodgson, no sweat. The Sunday Times, they have got a story about judges

being told to get tough on immigrants. That is what we're

going to talk to Theresa May about, as well, and finally the

Independent on Sunday has Eric Pickles, that the committee

secretary, talking about problem families. We will discuss that with

our two wonderful paper review was. The Times and the macro or

xylophone. Carla Buzasi from the Huffington Post UK. And Phil

Collins from the Times. The this is a story in the Times, a story which

has been running for a few weeks now. There's been some great TV

programmes about it. People have been exposed for trolling on it

Twitter. It is being at unbelievably abusive and personally

offensive whilst hiding behind anonymity. Absolutely pulls up you

sit on comments on it Facebook, Twitter, and it's becoming more and

more prevalent on the sites. We finally have someone who has got

the police involved and is forcing Facebook to reveal their identities.

It's not their actual identities but there internet address. There

is no guarantee who will -- who has left the Commons will be found out.

We are going to see a mass of potentially big lawsuits. Less

anonymity on the internet. Absolutely. It's hard to avoid the

Spanish bale-out. Critics of the European Union always always say

the bad thing about it is there is this horrible plan towards

federalism but the truth is, there is no plan at all. We are lurching

from one crisis to the next. The latest instalment in the slow

rescue of the euro is 100 billion euros for the Spanish banks. As you

can imagine, that amount of money going to Spanish banks has gone

down extremely badly in Spain but it's probably still the case, the

euro was a terrible idea but letting it go would be even worse,

so another summit is coming up at the end of June when the Germans

will be prevailed upon again, will they come forward with the capital

to save it? It still remains the central question. Does the German

fear of inflation stop them what they have to do? In terms of our

economy, these sums are unimaginable. Here is another 100

billion euros for you, but is it the case our politicians have any

control over what happening to the economy and the lack of growth?

are sucked into some extent. France, Germany, the eurozone has avoided

recession and we haven't. You can't entirely attribute it to the

eurozone. Of course, it has an effect. At the moment, the Tory

party is about to indulge itself in a referendum about fantasy, which

is to say a Europe which has not exist, common trading bloc without

the European Union, calling for a referendum on this, is like calling

for a referendum on nanny a. -- Narnia. A lot of people would like

that. But it doesn't exist. have chosen a story relating to the

human cost. There is a 10% rise in women over 30 having abortions and

they are blaming that on at the recession forced. They are worried

about their careers, more women are out of work than men have since the

recession started. The pro-life lobby will seize on this and there

is a quote in the story where they are saying women are using this as

a quick way of getting rid of children and I don't think this is

something anybody goes into in a light-hearted manner but yet

another example of how the recession is affecting everybody on

a personal level. It's also saying the number of teenagers having

abortions has gone down. All the headlines, it's terrible, actually

it is decreasing. Interesting story. We have to talk about the obvious

course of Douglas Alexander, Labour politician, on a slightly

unexpected story. Yes, it's always good to hear from him on football.

That's what we have got in the Mail on Sunday and despite the lurid

headline, the Caci makes is a very considered one. I think he's right

about it. -- that case he makes will up if players are forced to

walk of off-field because of racist abuse, they should be supported.

They should go to the referee and ask for an intercession and if the

referee does not do anything and it is intolerable and the player

things, I'm not playing in these circumstances and walks off, they

will be booked according to Uefa, but they should be backed. You

can't play in those circumstances. We are going to talk to Clarke

Carlisle from the PFA later. started quite well in the first few

games but that does not appear to be a problem so far for club this

is a great issues for MPs to get behind at the moment. There is also

a political question. The opposition leader in the Ukraine is

in prison. The British Government has a peculiar position where they

are not going to go there for the group stages but if England get

through they might go for the later ones. A very strange position.

That's more to do with the fact that if we get through and those

matches were in Poland, but they wouldn't have an issue. Your next

Tory. If you're feeling a bit depressed do not buy the

Independent on Sunday today. If you do, make sure you have taken Prozac

first. Celebrate your big day as if it's your last. You are likely to

die on your birthday. Is the end of the world coming? This is

everything which is going on in America summed up in one very

depressing headline. And when your Olympic dream dies, you face the

nightmare alone, a sad story about people who win Olympic medals and

then a left bereft afterwards for the it's true. All problems in the

world, I think I could cope with that one. It has to be said the

Independent on Sunday has a very, very downbeat feeling this morning.

We need some royal stories. Jubilee coverage is still going on. But

they don't do that so they have to fill it up with terrible stories.

lot of Sunday newspapers don't have a very many old fashioned reporters

left two to go out and get stories. They will be looking at Huffington

Post thinking... How many actual journalists have you got? 23. A lot

of papers would love that. Most of them are reporting but we also have

a blog team because that's a big part of the Huffington Post. 3,000

people. That is more opinion led things. 3,000 opinions? Yes, 3,000.

Maybe that's the future. Government's pull your socks up

merchant, Eric Pickles, is using West Side story to get into the

question of problem families. They blame their parents and their

background for everything. He says they've had it far too easy and we

have to stop being so correct about them and start hitting them hard up.

Not literally, I hope. I don't know. The interesting thing about this,

there is a serious problem, and what the Government is trying to do

is pay by the results they get and that the interesting thing for a

policy point of view. Getting people to work? Yes, or getting

children to read better, you set up a measure and you only get paid if

you improve things. It's difficult to work out a child's reading

standards and pay some body for that. It's difficult. The devil is

in trying to work out what it is that Marx and bodies improvement.

It's not impossible. It's intriguing that what they are

trying to do because governments for years have tried to deal with

this. Problem families. They used to be 250,000 of them in and now

they are saying it's half that. However many you get, they do

commit the vast majority of crime, so he's not wrong to think there is

a serious problem here. OK. We're running out of time it so let's go

It is a big week for the Leveson Inquiry. We keep saying it is a big

week for that, which seems to have been rolling on forever, but we

have David Cameron. Everybody will be watching on Wednesday. Will he

get tripped up? The trilby an interesting few days. The renting

story, we have mentioned already briefly, but we should acknowledge

that many people will have to rent. There is a fascinating picture you

have picked up. This is the flag as it might look if Scotland became

independent, and the interesting thing here is not only is the

Scottish move gone, but the Welsh dragon is inserted. At the moment

the Union Jack does not include the dragon because it was considered a

principality, but in the new design them as a Welsh dragon in the

bottom corner. It seems very sad when our streets are festooned with

Union Jack bunting. Unfortunately the sexual depravity of penguins is

one of the stories we are unable to bring you. You will have to read

the newspapers yourself. With whales underwater, heavy wind

on Friday, and even where it isn't raining of brisk feel to the air,

are we doomed to miss another It is another week of that to be

honest. Even though some of you have some sunny weather at the

moment, there will be more showers brewing in the UK today. Thicker

cloud in the south of England, which is producing a few spots of

rain, which will turn heavier and more persistent through the day.

North of that, we continue with some sunny spells across northern

England. Through the afternoon, northern England and central

southern Scotland will have some heavy down -- downpours.

Temperatures will stay up at about 12 degrees Celsius. For the return

to work and school, it is wet across southern England. Some

showers possible in the north, not as many as we saw in the weekend,

but temperatures will be struggling to 16 degrees at the best. The week

will be cool with showers, even longer spells of rain at times.

The eurozone remains on the brink, but are we listening closely enough

to the drivers in the economy? Sir Terry Leahy made Tesco the third

largest retailer and at its peak the company took one in every �7

spent on the UK high street, but since then it has had troubles of

its own. What is his assessment of the current turmoil? A massive

amount of worry about the economy in general, just give your headline

in general, just give your headline thoughts on that to start with.

It has been a very difficult period because there has been a double

whammy - the financial crisis itself would be very difficult to

recover from on its own, and you are seeing the problems in Europe,

but beneath that the oil price since 2010 has nearly doubled. By

some measures, that alone would not nearly 3% off growth, so Paul

Western economies are struggling to manage these things at the same

time. It is difficult for one economy to break free, but if I was

George Osborne what would you be telling me to do? I think the broad

plan is right. You have got to keep the confidence of the markets.

Governments have been trying to do too much, they have got to spend a

little less, but beneath that we have got a look at how economies

grow and win need the government to do a little less, but will also

spend in investment because that increases capacity for growth.

about employment and social mobility? You famously started from

the bottom, you literally got on a bike and you started packing

shelves. Is that happening enough these days to the 15 year-old Terry

Leahys out there? I see a lot of bright kids starting businesses but

it doesn't have -- happen enough. I had the greater advantage of

getting a scholarship to a grammar school, and that catapulted me into

the big wide world. That is harder to do now, and for the people from

poorer backgrounds, they do need a leg up to get into society. Let's

talk about Tesco, where you have brought a massive growth, but some

people think it is too successful. A lot of family businesses are

crowded out by Tesco. What do you say to that view? It is

controversial, and it is important to have a debate about how Tesco

has been successful. Tesco was not created by diktat of legislation,

Tesco grew because customers shop there, and they do have a choice.

Everybody has a choice, so if Tesco stopped looking after the customer

and creating benefit, then customers can and do go elsewhere.

Do you feel in any sense queasy about what has happened to so many

high streets? Because they have been hollowed out with a lot of

charity shops and traditional businesses closing. It is a problem

because some of the high streets are medieval, Victorian, and they

were designed for a different economy. They have to change as

people shop and the way they live their lives changed. Just look at

the internet. By some estimates, a third of non-food purchases will be

on the internet in a few years' time. We have got to make high

streets more attractive places to beat and spend time. Since you left,

Tesco has had a tough time. The first profits warning for a long

time, and some people say you saw it coming and got out in time, some

people say your successors have messed things up. Which is it?

Neither. Any business will show wear and tear coming through the

recession, but remember Tesco is very strong and profitable. It has

a very good market position, it is a British success story. The

recovery is coming and they are investing ahead of the record to

improve the customer offer. So you would have done nothing different,

have you stayed on? It is hard to know but I suspect I would have

been doing the same thing. Remember, this is a very competitive market,

and competitors don't sit around making it easy. Half the employees

are now outside the UK, a big expansion outside, will that be the

future? One of the big questions seems to be how we are going to

make our way in the world, what we will be good at. Do you think

retail, the export of retailing ideas, is a wealth maker? I do, and

the British retail industry is probably the best in the world, and

we are one of the leaders on e- commerce now, the new industry. We

should go out around the world and compete, find the best and see if

we can learn from them and take them on. That is the future for the

British economy, to engage more in markets like Asia and Latin America.

In your book you go through a series of things that are important.

If you were singling out one message for people to take away

from your book, what would it be? Truth, because you have got to find

out what is going on around you and face up to the difficult questions.

If you can do that, the problem is half solved. What is ahead for you?

I am still in business but now I invest in smaller start-up

businesses and help them to grow, and that is what the economy.

you. As England prepare for their

opening Euro 2012 match in the Ukraine tomorrow, the conduct of

local supporters threatens to overshadow the football itself. The

Dutch players found themselves abused by local spectators when

they were training this week, and now the footballers who respond to

racist chanting by walking off will get into trouble themselves, so how

should they react? Clarke Carlisle is chairman of the Professional

Footballers' Association. Thank you for coming in. How seriously do you

think we should be taking these warnings of major racist abuse

coming from the terraces in the Ukraine? I think we need to take

them very seriously because I was in Poland myself four weeks ago,

went to the Krakow Derby, and had first-hand experience of racist

abuse, hooliganism and anti- Semitism all in one game, not long

after speaking to the chief of police who said there had been no

reported incidents in the last 18 months. What we are being told and

reported is vastly different. should players do? One politician

this morning said if there is serious racist abuse, and the

referee is not intervening, walk off. That is the order of play, I

think. If you can see the officials are not handling the situation, you

are well within your rights to walk off the pitch. We don't want any

discrimination in football, so this will be a real test of UEFA to see

if they have empowered their officials to take control of these

situations. If the referee has stopped the game and it is the few

individuals, they are being sorted out, then you would be happy

because you know what is being dealt with. If not, England players

should walk off? If it happened to me, I would want to walk off the

pitch because I don't think anybody should be abused in their workplace.

If UEFA saying you will be disciplined if you do, that is not

an acceptable response? Their remit is obviously to hope that their

officials are taking control of it so they are speaking in the thought

process that the referee has taken control of it and that will be the

ultimate test. If they are, the players won't have to walk off the

pitch. We have had trouble in this country as well and there has been

a lot of controversy about the fact Rio Ferdinand has not been selected

this time. We have had the England manager speaking out about it this

morning. What is your take on that? It is fantastic Roy Hodgson has

spoken about it this morning because hopefully that will have

put to bed some rumours flying around about this. He has

categorically stated that Rio Ferdinand was not in the back up

group of players to be selected so it was nothing to do with the

ongoing situation, and that is what was necessary. We needed some

transparency, we needed someone to come out and say the reasons why he

was not selected. Even non-football experts like myself know there are

issued a number of injuries hitting the England team in particular. Do

you think it is the case that the length of the season and having

missed at the end, be a large just exhausted and overtired, and that

is a structural issue that needs to be looked at? This has been mooted

on many occasions, before every major championships we have had

over the last 20 years, and it definitely is a possibility. It is

a long season, especially for the elite players, playing up words of

16 games this season, in Europe, domestically and internationally.

It is a demanding season, but if we did bring in some kind of a winter

break, it would only serve to condense the amount of time we play

these games in. The only answer would be to cut down the amount of

games played in a season, which in the capitalistic way the game is

nowadays, it won't happen. Not too exhausted to come to speak to us.

David Suchet is loved by millions of people for his portrayal of

Agatha Christie's detective Hercule Poirot, a role he has been

perfecting for more than 20 years. He is a superb theatre actor as

well, currently starring in the West End American classic French

dint alcohol, pain and guilt. I You seemed a bit high strung?

have nonsense in your imagination and you really must not watch me

all the time, James, it makes me self-conscious. Now, that's your

imagination. And if I have watched you, it was to admire how beautiful

you looked. I can't tell you the deep happiness it gives me to see

you as you have been since you came back to us. Your dear old self

again. And David Suchet is with me. Welcome. What we were seeing their,

the reason he is watching her so carefully is an underlying theme,

she has had a serious morphine addiction. And this business about

being fat, he hopes she's getting over it. Yes, he is in denial,

really. He has been noticing that she has been tense for the past few

days and, historically, for 25 years, she has been addicted to

morphine. Due to pain in childbirth, she was given morphine and he was

responsible for not paying for a good doctor, so he feels guilty.

Your character is an actor. He has been too cowardly to be the best

actor he could be and has taken a role which has been to lucrative in

a travelling production. Yes, he saw the equivalent of what a young

actor could now see in the Royal Shakespeare Theatre Company doing

really serious drama and suddenly Hollywood comes knocking and you go

for the big money. In those days, the big money was a really good

part in a theatre play, so he was a Shakespearean actor, and we are

talking about this play being seven autobiography for -- semi

autobiographical because Eugene O'Neill, it's a mirror image of his

father. He took the role of the Count of Monte Christow and gave up

Shakespeare. He wouldn't allow the pay to be shown in his lifetime

because it is too painful. And I was just thinking, there's every

way we can match -- a mess up our lives, addiction, alcohol,

cowardice, cruelty, it's all there in one family, very intense. It's

extremely intense and very, very hard and demanding but it's the

only place I have ever been in that I read that Eugene O'Neill never

intended to put on stage and he only wanted published a 25 years

after his death. He was using this played, his method of writing drama,

as an exorcism for getting on to paper the tragedy of his own life

and family. We will talk about Hercule Poirot in a moment but you

have had such a successful career on television. What is it about

putting yourself through something like this which is clearly

addictive because it's not the first time you will put yourself in

a really long, tough, American play. I don't know. I find myself playing

so many American roles on stage. I think because it really fall fails

the pure equation of why I became an actor, to be the mouthpiece for

playwrights in the theatre. Without them, actors would not have a voice

and some of the greatest voices are from really big dramatic plays.

none more so than this one. You're doing the final series of Hercule

Poirot. We start in October. This is going to be quite a

heartbreaking moment, not only for the fans watching but I guess for

yourself, because you haven't lived with this man and adapted the

character over the years and developed it and so on are. Do you

feel a bereavement? Yes, I will feel that. I will feel very pleased

that I have accomplished the complete canon of work. Every novel,

short story that Agatha Christie ever wrote involving Hercule Poirot

will have been performed by you. Yes, on July 15th, I will do a play

Reading at the Chichester Festival of the only play Agatha Christie

wrote for him as well, black coffee. There are no more stories by Agatha

Christie. And so I will be putting him to bed and that's a very

strange feeling for me. Your film and has backwards, I understand?

It's the last story and it means that it's the last story. The book

is called Curtain falls of it doesn't do the big imagination to

work at what happens. We were going to that last but thought about it

carefully have thought, no, it's got to come first because then I

don't have to leave, nearly a quarter of a century of playing

this man, and having to literally bury him and trying to deal with

that, so we are doing that one first and I can leave him while

he's still alive. How long does it take to do this? I will be on from

October, on and off, through to the end of 20th July 13. It's going to

be quite an emotional roller- coaster. Yes, it will be an

extraordinary year. I will never forget it. Well listen, thank you

very much. A great pleasure. Before the last election, the Prime

minister David Cameron made a pledge. We'll reduce the annual

rate of immigration to tens of thousands. Two years into his

Premiership, he might be wishing he hadn't. Annual net migration in the

year to September was a quarter of a million. Almost identical to the

year before. 25 tens of millions. This morning, the Home Secretary

Theresa May is unveiling new plans to make it harder to bring in

foreign relatives, and make it easier to deport foreign criminals.

But will the judges play along? Mrs May joins me now. Welcome. Good

morning. Let's talk about the most important of these measures, which

is to break -- greatly increase the amount of income you have to have

to bring in a migrant husband or wife or children. If you want to

bring in relatives, explained to us how the new system will work.

Perhaps I could set it in the context of the wider issue of net

migration. We want to reduce it to tens of thousands and we have said,

in doing that, we would look at every aspect of immigration, non e

u economic migrants, student visas and settlements, and now family,

and this is not just about the numbers in terms of family because

we think it's right that somebody who wants to bring some body into

the UK to join them as a partner, should be able to support them

financially at not be bringing them in on the basis they are going to

be reliant on the state and that's... How much money do need to

have to bring a husband or wife in? �18,600. We ask our advisory

committee to look at the figures and to advise as as to what that

could be. They set a range and we have chosen at the lower end of the

range, the point people would normally not be reliant on benefits.

We think that is an important point. What about children, aunts and

uncles and grannies and so on? relation to children, we think it

right that the income should be increased for each child, so one

child, 22,400 pound, and then 2,400 pound for every other child each. I

think that's right. It's important that if people are bringing people

into the UK to create a family, we say that you should be able to

support yourselves and not be reliant on the state. There is a

British test you are going to bring in as well. Yes, it's not just

about numbers but also about looking at people being able to

support themselves in the UK and integrate into society also we

think that's important so for settlement from next year, we

expect people to be able to speak English to a certain level,

understand English, and also to do a life in the UK test, so we know

they can integrate and become part of society here. What we are doing

in terms of family migration is not just about those aspects. It's also

about this issue called article 8. I want to come on to that. The

right to family life in the human rights legislation but before we do

that, you must have seen estimates in your department about what these

measures will do in terms of net immigration. How many fewer

immigrants do you expect to come into this country as a result?

is not big numbers, the family migration, not just about numbers

for family migration. It's about setting out clearly the rules in

relation to article 8, but also about some important principles

about people being able to support themselves so it's not in itself

about numbers because the large numbers, what makes the major

difference in terms of the overall net migration is student visas.

and has been altered issues around that. Let's talk odd article 8,

which affects people who you want to remove from the country but

can't remove at the moment because they are going to court and saying

I have a right to family life, I have married his person, I have

this child, and whatever I have done as a criminal in this country,

you can't get rid of me. problem is, article 8 is in the

European Convention on Human Rights and if you look at it, there are

two parts, the first saying you are right to a family life and the

second says that actually, governments unqualified are right.

It's not an absolute right, so in the interests of the economy and

controlling migration, public order and those sort of issues, the state

has a ride to qualify this right to family life. What has been

happening up until now, we have seen cases going to court where

criminals who we want to deport have been able to stay in the UK

because the courts have said, you have a right to family life. And

they haven't been qualifying it, even in the way the European

Convention enabled them to do. I'm going to set out the rules which

says this is what the public and Parliament believe is how you

balance the public interest against the individual. You get a

parliamentary vote, a lot of lawyers say that this is absolutely

not the job of MPs or commentators of any kind and judges make

distinctions of this kind, interpret the law, and they will

carry on doing that in the way they see fit no matter what motion goes

through Parliament. It also been said by some in the legal

profession but one of the problems in interpreting it at the moment is

that Parliament has an been clear enough about what it believes the

right to family life is, and Parliament is going to set that out

and ask parliament to vote on this to say very clearly what we think

constitutes the right to family life. Will judge us carry on as

before? We balance the interests of the public and the individual. I

expect judges will look at what Parliament says and will follow and

take into account what Parliament has said. If they don't, we will

have to look at other measures including primary legislation.

Given that we are signatories to this Act, this international

agreement, it's impossible, isn't it, for Parliament to change the

effective law when it comes to this? The parliament is not

changing it. What are we will ask parliament to do is to set out the

qualifications which we are entitled to set out under the

European Convention itself and one of the interesting things is, if

you look of the cases we have seen, there some instances with the

European Court has been tougher than our own courts, for example we

tend not to look at whether some body has been here for a number of

years lawfully or illegally, whereas the European Court takes a

tougher view on those who have built up rights over a number of

years and have been hit illegally. They say we should pay less

attention to that so we are taking what is in the Convention itself

and saying it's right we apply this in Parliament. This does not get

big numbers, I think it's important to do this in article 8 but in

terms of net migration overall, we are seeing differences in student

Ken Clarke, Justice Secretary backing this? Yes, he has agreed to

it. A lot of people think, as we go through the meltdown in the euro,

and really intense problems in a lot of southern European economies,

we will see a lot of internal migration coming from Europe. If

that happens at a dramatic level, what can you do about it? We are

looking at contingency arrangements. So far we are not seeing a trend in

increased movement, despite significant problems already in a

number of eurozone countries, but it is right that we look at the

contingency arrangements that might be needed. What could you do if you

are worried? The whole point of doing the work is to look to see

what it would be possible to do, and what it would be appropriate to

do in certain circumstances. I will not make any judgments at this

stage, but it is right to look at it properly. Talking to you as a

leading Conservative member of the Cabinet, rather than Home Secretary,

what is your view about the referendum issue? If, as appears

now quite likely, the eurozone takes deeper measures, brings

itself closer together and create a stronger Corps, that will break the

effect of what Europe means and affect our relationship with the

rest of the EU. Many Conservatives feel that at that moment the

promise of a referendum can no longer be ignored. We have done

something no government has done previously. we passed an Act of

Parliament saying that if there is a treaty taking powers from Britain

to Brussels, there will be a referendum, and we think that is

important. We don't know what will come out of the current discussions.

But you are watching this like a hawk and you mussy that is the way

things are moving. We have been very clear for some time, and

George Osborne has reiterated that today, that we think for the

countries in the eurozone there is an inevitability about them having

more a -- collective responsibility. And that means inevitably changes

to the arrangements, which inevitably would trigger a

referendum, no? We don't know what changes to the arrangements it

means. As I say, we have been very clear in the legislation that if

they raise a treaty that requires powers to go from Britain to

Brussels, there will be a referendum. Would you like to see

that happen? Do you think it is fair to give people in this country

to another vote? I think we should do what we said we would do, which

is that if we see powers being passed from Britain to Brussels,

the British people should have their say. That is what we have

said and that is what is right so let's see what comes out of this.

The suggested appointment of Tom Windsor to oversee the police is

causing fury among many police officers because they also regard

him as the person who has been trying to rewrite their terms of

service, and to put it bluntly is a bit of an enemy. Are you picking a

fight deliberately with the Police Federation because you are

determined to change the police once and for all? I are not picking

a fight. The current chief inspector, Sir Denis O'Connor, who

has been outstanding, has been gradually moving... He was a

policeman. Yes, he has been moving the inspectorate to be more

independent and the body whose job it is should be independent of

government and independent of the service. Within the inspectorate,

you have a mix already have people who have policing backgrounds and

people who don't. What is it about Tom Windsor, lawyer, rail regulator,

who makes him the best candidate to do this policing job? There was a

proper process, we didn't look him out of thin air. The number of

people applied, went through interviews, and in the final

interviews, which were conducted by myself and the policing minister

Nick Herbert, we felt he was the best candidate. Does it worry you

that the policing profession and feel so angry about this? We want

someone who can be completely independent. What is important is

that we have an inspectorate that does challenge... But does it worry

you that the profession are quite so angry? Are want to see an

inspector that is independent, and I spoke to police officers across

all ranks about the changes, and I recognise that the police are

seeing a lot happening in terms of their pay and conditions, but what

we are doing is are establishing policing where we are giving more

discretion and responsibility to individual police officers, giving

public accountability through the elected crime commissioners, and we

are making of the inspectorate more independent. It will report to

Parliament in the future, rather than just to the government.

you are not worried that you are putting in somebody with no

policing experience, infuriating the police, ahead of a very

stressful summer, the Olympics not least? You say we are putting

somebody in charge of the police, the inspectorate is not in charge

of the police. Each chief constable continues to have independence in

their area. The crime commissioner will give local people a voice,

give the democratic accountability that we have promised people we

would give, and the inspectorate's role is being changed by the

legislation we have passed, reporting to Parliament rather than

government, and its job is to shine a light on policing generally.

mentioned the Olympics. The terrible queues that built up at

Heathrow have been a national embarrassment. Will you be carrying

on with an insistence that everybody is fully checked as they

come in, or will you allow a more common sense risk based approach?

There are two parts to your question. We have arrangements

specifically for the Olympics, we have been opening more desks at

airports, particularly Heathrow, and we have been seeing the queues

coming down so we are not seeing the sort of lengths of queues we

were seeing a few weeks ago so we have taken action already. I have

always said I am not against risk based checks but they need to be

based on evidence and we need to have that evidence to make sure

what we are doing is right because border security is paramount.

over to Naga for the news headlines. The Home Secretary says judges will

be given new guidelines making it more difficult for foreign

criminals to escape deportation from the UK by invoking human

rights law. She said she wants the parliament to vote on tighter rules

that would make clear to the courts that are right to family life does

not automatically take precedence over other situations.

The Chancellor, George Osborne, has warned that the debt crisis in the

Eurozone is killing off Britain's chances of economic recovery. His

comments in the Sunday Telegraph come as Spain announced it is

seeking a bailout of up to �80 billion pounds from the eurozone to

rescue its troubled banks. It's the fourth and by far the biggest

country to ask for help. The move has been welcomed by officials in

both Washington and Berlin. The chairman of the footballers

union has told this programme that he would walk off if he was

racially abused at Euro 2012. The Dutch team has already faced abuse

during training sessions, but the European football chief has been

warning that any player who walks off the pitch in protest will be

given a yellow card. That's all from me for now. The

next news on BBC One is at midday. Back to Andrew in just a moment,

but first a look at what is coming up after the show. Today, did fear

of being called racist stop us tackling forced marriage, and is it

a crime? And do posh people have too much power? Our guests will

argue that one out. She's known as the Queen of Indie

Pop - famous for her mighty Voice and style that's been compared to

Ophelia meets the Lady of Shalott. Florence Welch, who performs as

Florence and the Machine, is about to embark on a season of music

# There is a drumming noise inside my head that starts when you are

around. I swear you should hear it, it makes such a mighty sound.

morning, Florence has popped in to see us. It has been an astonishing

time for you because it is not long ago you were singing tiny venues

and now you have this superstar status. The way it started was just

from playing in pubs and clubs with an acoustic guitarist, and now I

have these amazing moments with a full orchestra, playing the Albert

Hall, and it is like oh wow! haven't managed to do that today.

You will be singing something which is gentler, tell us about it.

is a song called Breaking Down that was one of those songs that I

started humming and the words came of their own accord, but it is one

of the more introspective sad songs on the record, but I always wanted

to make a sad song with a happy tune, which is what I am doing.

will look forward to it very much. That's it for this week. I'll be

back at the same time next Sunday, but for now I'll leave you with

Florence and the Machine with their track Breaking Down from the album

Ceremonials. From all the team here, enjoy the rest of the weekend.

All alone It was always there you see

And even on my own It was always standing next to me

I can see it coming from the edge of the room

Creeping in the streetlight Holding my hand in the pale gloom

Can you see it coming now? Oh, I think I'm breaking down again

Oh, I think I'm breaking down All alone

Even when I was a child I've always known

There was something to be frightened of

And I can see you coming from the edge of the room

Smiling in the streetlight Holding my hand in the pale gloom

Can you see it coming now? Oh, I think I'm breaking down again

Oh, I think I'm breaking down All alone

On the edge of sleep My old familiar friend

Comes and lies down next to me And I can see you coming from the

edge of the room Smiling in the streetlight