22/07/2012 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning. Either way, that is probably the last time you will see

that car. We are returning from the BBC's new headquarters. By will be

turning up in a new fashion - skateboard, paragliding - I have no

idea but it will probably involve public humiliation. I will be

talking with the veteran American network news anchor Tom Brokaw, and

beside him Tessa Jowell, now with a key role in the Olympics. There is

much coverage of the Colorado massacre, and Louis Susman will be

reflecting on America's sad history of these kinds of killings, but on

a happier note he will be hosting Michelle Obama whilst Mitt Romney

is also in town. Of course, just five days to go until the Olympic

opening ceremony itself. Has that been too much whingeing about that?

Boris Johnson will be talking about that, as well as London's legacy.

If you are looking for sporting omens, Bradley Wiggins is set to

become the first Brit to win the Tour de France this afternoon, and

it is not trust him. There are a lot of good cyclists at the moment.

Chris Boardman who led the way with gold at the Barcelona Games joins

us from Paris. Not everyone is sporting minded, and we have some

greats from the music business - Daniel Barenboim is here to talk

about conducting at the Proms. Finally, singing live in the studio

we have a very successful British singer-songwriter, Rumer. A mellow

end to a busy morning. First, the news.

President Obama will visit Colorado today to meet relatives of the

victims of Friday's mass shooting. The 12 people who were killed have

been formally identified, the youngest was a girl aged six.

Police say they have removed the booby traps from the apartment of

James Holmes, who was believed to have carried out the attacks. This

is James Holmes's apartment, booby- trapped with chemicals and

explosives. It had to be made safe before federal agents could move in.

It has taken the police and the FBI two days to safely clear the

complex booby-trapped that was left in the apartment. They have now

done that, the danger is largely over, and they can folksong

collecting evidence. We talk about motive, defences, deliberation.

Make no mistake, this apartment was designed, I say, based on

everything I have seen, to kill anyone who entered it. He was most

likely to enter their location after he planned and executed this

crime was going to be a police officer. The movie theatre, where

the shooting took place, has been clear by forensic scientists. The

identities of those who died have now been released. Near the scene

of the shooting, spontaneous outpouring of public grief, in a

community still very shaken by what happened here. Flowers and tributes

for the 27 year-old killed on his birthday, people paying respects to

the dead, all the time still wondering why.

Services will be held across Norway today to mark the first anniversary

of the attacks by Anders Breivik in which 77 people died. Flowers will

be laid at the scene of the bomb blast and on the island where he

shot dead 69 activists attending a summer camp.

Thousands of people are reported to have fled Syria's second city

Aleppo. It has become the latest focus with fierce clashes between

government troops and rebel fighters. It had previously been

spared the bloodshed since the uprising began.

Bradley Wiggins is set and secured a place among Britain's sporting

great today, to become the winner of the Tour de France. Only an

accident can prevent him from clenching the race title this

afternoon. He is more than three minutes ahead of his nearest rival.

There is also a tradition that the race lead was not challenged on the

final day. Some day trading laws in England

and Wales will be suspended until the end of the Olympics and

Paralympics. The government says it will help retailers generate extra

revenue but many small shopkeepers fear they will lose out. I will be

back just before 10 o'clock with the headlines.

In a few hours, Bradley Wiggins is set to peddle through Paris, having

made a remarkable piece of sporting history when he does. He will

become the first British winner of the event in its history, with an

unbeatable lead going into the final ride in Paris. Someone who

knows all about cycling success is Chris Boardman, who is in Paris,

and I asked him to put this achievement into context. I am

getting sick of saying the word unprecedented, it is unprecedented

the amount of times I have said unprecedented in the last few weeks.

It has been a phenomenal race with British domination. The whole Team

Sky team has been incredible, with Mark Cavendish, Bradley Wiggins,

and his team mate in second place. They could not have asked for a

better Tour de France than the one they are having now. For people who

don't know about the Tour de France, tell us about the physical demands

this race puts on you because it is like nothing else. It is such an

extreme events, absolutely unique in the world of sport. There is no

other event I can think of which is three weeks long, covering so many

kilometres, using up to 7000 calories every day. It is amazing

for a start now we are at the end of three weeks of that and they

will be fresh enough to go on to the Olympic Games. There is barely

a heartbeat, and they finished this extraordinary gruelling competition,

and then they are into the Olympics. Is that a big problem for the

athletes? Ironically, the body super compensate sponsored realises

you are not going to stop doing this, it begins to repair much

quicker. It is anon impact sport, energy reserves are you stop but

they can be replenished quite quickly. This is the best

preparation you can get, so I would expect to see Bradley Wiggins

challenging again for a gold medal in the individual time-trial, and

Mark Cavendish in the road race on Saturday. A sense of real

excitement in the UK about the number of medals we might get in

cycling this time around. I don't think we will get near the levels

we saw in Beijing because there have been some rule changes with

less events now and we can't have more than two competitors per

nation, but nevertheless I would forecast they will be extremely

successful in London. The track team is training in Newport now,

and reports are that they are going extremely quick and everyone is fit

and healthy. You yourself started all this in terms of British

success back in Barcelona when you got your gold. Why is it the

British have become good at cycling? We never used to be.

Whenever there question is posed, I take complete and full

responsibility for the success we have had to date! I am a believer

in the adage that success breeds success. If you get an individual

who performs well and their training partners alongside them

say I have actually beaten this person in this race and they

suddenly believe it is possible, they find an extra level of

commitment. It moves through the squad, and that is what has

happened since winning at the Sydney Olympics, it has moved

through the squad, and you believe in the methodology for getting

those gold medals as well. It is simply that - belief it is possible,

and proves it is possible. The sun is shining. I understand it is

impossible now for Bradley Wiggins not to win. How was he feeling?

was discussing this yesterday. It is a very curious affair, the Tour

de France. Traditionally, the last stage of the race into Paris is a

promenade so riders are riding slowly, talking, there is often

champagne in the peloton and when they come into Paris it is hell for

leather. It is a race for the final few laps and it is one of the most

coveted stages to win. At that point it really is a race, but if

Bradley Wiggins has a mishap in the last few kilometres he is awarded

the same time. Anyone who has a problem in the last few kilometres

are rewarded the same time so realistically he can't lose it.

Theoretically he could, but it is all over bar the shouting. Thank

you. Interesting rules. Anyway, Chris

Boardman on Bradley Wiggins' impending glory. This is the main

story in the newspapers today, but there are a lot of other stories.

The Sunday Times saying the Israelis are worried about possible

Iranian attack at the Olympic Games and have spent a lot of security

people into London. There is Bradley Wiggins again. A very

cheeky Sunday Express front page - Kate and William's hope for

children, and you think they have an interview with them but they

have not. Scotland on Sunday has a genuinely interesting story with

the Independent debate going on. It says a majority of Scottish people

would want an independent Scotland to stay in NATO. The Sunday

Telegraph here - foreign criminals, we don't try to deport pictures as

well of some of the people killed in that shooting. Tom Brokaw and

Tessa Jowell, thank you for coming in to review the papers. Tom, a

terrible, sad story from your homeland, and there is a lot of

coverage about whether the killer was directly influenced by Batman

plot lines and so on. There is no history of destructive behaviour on

his part, as there have been with others - signs of mental illness.

This is an open wound on the American psyche. These are

heartbreaking tragedy is and I honestly believe we need to have a

far more robust dialogue about violence in our society. It is not

just about the guns and the access to them, it is about violence on

celebrity and attention, and I hope we will learn more about this man

and what motivated him but the consequences are almost beyond

belief. A year ago, Norway was coming to terms with the horrific

murders by Anders Breivik. I wonder, given the momentum of the election

campaign in the US gathering, where the gun control will go up the

agenda as the debate. Will that be the American reaction to this?

are already beginning to see some of that, but I guess it will not

advance very much. It turns out the weapons he got, he bought under the

current rules. There was a check on him at a place that was a very big

national sporting train. They immediately said they did the

cheques that were required. If you took the automatic weapon out of

that, he could have done extraordinary damage with sporting

rifles so it is not just a matter of access. It is about the culture

and what kind of society we want to Just to add, very quickly, the

Dunblane tragedy of course affected the way in which shooting as a

sport in this country can now be conducted. It was much tighter.

Let's turn to British politics now. Your man is doing better in the

polls there. He's doing an awful lot better. Oh, I'm sorry! The last

year has seen a turn around with even people like you, Andrew, I

think with all your obligations of impartiality recognising this has

been a very good year for Ed Miliband as Labour leader. It's

been a terrible year for David Cameron and George Osborne. Most of

all, it's been an awful year for the British people. Hasn't it been

a terrible year, to be fair, for all incumbents, given the state of

the economy? We're told this recession could go on for what,

eight years more? It's an awful prospect visited on us by the

choices that this Government made very shortly after they were

elected. But the reason that Ed Miliband's personal standing has

increased so substantially is that he's sort of been ahead of the

argument, certainly ahead of David Cameron and George Osborne on the

behaviour of business, on the need for tougher control in relation to

the banks. Very much speaking on behalf of the public. But a loft

public would say these were rules over the banking system that were

set by Labour. And the overhang of debt was piled up by Labour and

it's no good just walking away and saying it's all these guys' fault.

They haven't been in four for -- power for very long. You were.

are quite clear that given the benefit of hindsight that the banks

were underregulated, but remember, they were underregulated at a time

when the now Government were calling on us to deregulate further.

Let's move on. Next story, Tom, where are we going next? We are

obviously Syria to deal with, can I make one observation about British

politics and how it plays out in America. We have the flip going on.

We have a Democrat in power saying I inherited this mess, as you say

here, Cameron will say, Labour was there first. We have a Democrat who

will say the Republicans did it. The bottom line is we're all in it.

Everybody was having too much debt, we were not paying enough attention

to the changing nature and the warp speed with which it happens in the

global economy. In America, at least, I'm not sure what it's like

here in the rank and file, there's a feeling in the public that the

economy has become bait and switch. First quarter looks like it's

getting better. Then suddenly it gets worse. Greece gets the flu.

have Mitt Romney in London as well as mairbl at the same time, so a

bit of -- Michelle Obama, at the same time as the Olympics. There's

a vigorous debate about his cam rain -- campaign whether he should

leave the country and make stops in Europe and the Middle East. One of

his conspicuous successes as an executive was when he took over the

Salt Lake City Games and got them back on even keel. They were an

enormous success. They were successfully economically, but also

it was not too long after 9/11 and the country felt a lot better about

itself after what happened. should be talking about Syria I

guess today, where again awful stories, it seems the regime is

starting to crumble a bit, Tessa, yet, a lot of worry reflected in

the papers too. I've noticed about what's going to come next. Exactly.

I think that the important thing here is that the UN continues to be

assertive in seeking an international coalition that will

eventually force Assad from office. What's the feeling in the States

about this? Certainly here, there's a kind of horror at what's

happening, yet, mixed with an incomprehension about what we

should do about it? Without Russia as a partner it's very hard to

bring that under control. Exactly. People have to understand that. You

couldn't have the same coalition we had for example in Libya, as an

overview of it, if you will. The Middle East is in a transition, the

likes of which we have not seen in our lifetime. This is another piece

of it. We don't know where it ends up, as the Muslim Brotherhood takes

hold in seer ya. It's a complex society with a lot more tribes than

the other places have. They'll be battling for control. It may be

Balkanised before it's all offer. Tribes will control various parts

of it. You have a story there about Romney coming into town. He has

decided to come into town. We'll see a lot of him. Interesting to

see how the ambassador deals with having these two big players in

town at the same time. We know the ambassador a bit. If anyone can do

that David Cameron... He's a man up to it. -- If anyone can do that...

He's a man who is up to it. There are two linked stories that Vince

Cable is at the centre of. The first is the attack by business

leaders on the coalition for short- termism, over buer rock ra tiesing.

And this gap between the rhetoric they use and the impact on

businesses being able to borrow in order to grow. And old Vince Cable

thinking that his opportunity might be coming, he may be 69, enough

youth. I think Vince hailing the end of the woreship of youth, let's

see. I think that Vince has had a tough ride during the coalition.

He's a man that I think... He has a glint in his eye I think. He has a

glint in his eye, and why not? you've got a story about the

Olympics. We have to talk about that before we finish, about the

Amazonian guards. I've been spending a lot of time in your

country in the last year preparing for the Olympics and doing first,

we're doing a 40 minute documentary called their finest hour about what

happened in 40 and 41. There were no more difficult times in the

twenty century than 40 and 41. We are doing a profile with the SAS.

What we think their role in terms of being on guard against terrorism

and it's developed recently that they have a secret army of amzons,

more women are in Special Forces now. They can play a unique role

inlet vigilance that is going to be required. They have been more

active than I realise in other parts of the world with the Special

Forces. We're very big on special forces in modern warfare in our

country and almost all of our leading commanders say the British

were there first, we work together with them very well, there is

admiration of SAS in our country. We must talk about the Olympics as

well. Because you remember vividly the day that you were in Government

and Sir Humphrey came along and said here is the Olympics. Don't

bid for it. Five days from the opening ceremony, I remember, I

think August 2, 2002, being given a submission by my officials which

coned by saying "Secretary of State we recommend you write to the Prime

Minister advising against a bid for the 20 12stkpwaems." You're feeling

pretty good just now? Just so optimistic about Team GB, the

transformation of East London and the spirit of the British people.

don't normally read out editorials. The independent on Sunday says

"This paper predicted that the Olympic Games would be a great

festival of pre-emptive whingeing, followed by people having a

surprisingly good time, do you agree? I think it's the media

that's been doing the Gold Medal job on whingeing. If you look at

how the torch relay has been received, 25,000 schools focused on

the Olympics, I think the British people are right with the Olympics.

Tom Brokaw, Tessa Jowell, thank you very much for that.

Weather now, a sodden summer may be turning into a bewildering summer.

And bewildering is good. That allows the possibility of heat and

sun. Perhaps it won't rain on the sun. Perhaps it won't rain on the

athletes' parade. There's been a lot of whingeing about the British

weather thus far this spring and summer. I'm in a privileged

position to stand before you this morning with that sort of message

behind me. Warm sun for a good many parts of the British Isles. It's

there for you to see. It's a bit of a different story to move that bit

further north into the northern and western parts of Scotland, an

active weather front here. Gusty winds, 40 to 45mph there.

In the borders and Northern Ireland sunshine even here lifting

temperatures into the 20s. Widely across England and Wales it's

pretty much sunshine all the way. Topping out around the low to mid-

20s. This warge front making slow progress through the night and on

into Monday. It will be a wet day for much of Northern Ireland,

south-western Scotland, the North West of England. Something drier to

the north of that and again, more in the way of sunshine coming

through across a good part of England and Wales. The temperatures

really responding. If you thought that was pretty high, we may be

moving into unknown territory for this year, at least, down across

central, southern parts, through the south-east, 30 degrees could be

the south-east, 30 degrees could be yours.

That sounds pretty good. As we heard in the news, the United

States is still reeling from that awful shooting in Colorado that

killed 12 people in the movie studio and wounded dozens more.

It's emerged that the gunman, James Holmes bought 6,000 rounds of

ammunition over the internet, which highlights America's relaxed gun

laws. Why are these weapons so freely available. Joining me now is

the American ambassador in London, Louis Susman. Welcome. Good morning

Andrew. Let's start talking about this awful event. America's gun

laws are famous around the world for being more relaxed than almost

anybody else. Do you think this is the moment when that starts to re-

enter the political debate? It's been hard for American politicians

to talk about. I think, first and foremost, we have to send our

condolences to the families and this tragedy, President Obama has

ordered all American flags in government buildings to be flown at

half-mast. It's a terrible tragedy. I think the second issue that we

have to face is the fact that obviously this was a deranged

person. He had no history of problems, but obviously, he had a

lot of problems. Now, interinject that with his ability to go and buy

four guns, legally, at a gun store in America and be able to go and

buy 6,000 rounds, as you say, of ammunition on the internet, what

does that tell you? It tells you that our system, OK, of the

availability of ammunition and guns could be improved. We have a very

strong lobby that supports very strongly the Second Amendment, the

right to bear arms. We agree there's a right to bear arms, but

appropriate arms. No-one needs an AK-47, for example. Will it rise in

this election year? I'm not sure. Will it continue to be an objective

of President Obama to strengthen the laws, especially on the

internet? For sure. What about the sheer level of violence in films

and television shows and all the rest. It seems to be going on and

we're constantly told that's got no relationship to how people behave

in the real world. Yet you have to ask yourself about whether there

may be some connection. First place, this is a global issue. This isn't

just an American issue. Absolutely. But, you know, Batman, who came

from comic books in my era, I'm sure when we looked at it, Batman

wasn't the most violent thing you've ever seen in television and

movies. People walking around blowing everything up, enormous

weaponry etc has to have an effect. On the same token, we have free

speech. There's a balance between what you can do. I think that

there's no question that it's had an effect. In the few days ahead,

as the ambassador, you have the Republican contender Mitt Romney in

town meeting all sorts of political leaders and going to the Olympics

because he was the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics organiser. And

you've got Michelle Obama, do you have a slight dance of who you're

having where? Is it awkward? Do you have to avoid meeting up? It isn't

awkward at all. First and foremost we are thrilled that the First Lady

is leading our delegation. She is immensely popular here in London,

as you know. She and Queen has become quite close and good friends.

She will be a fantastic representative for us all through

the Olympics. Governor Romney, former head, I believe his wife has

a horse in the equestrian part of it. I'm thrilled he's coming. It's

delightful and important that all Americans come and enjoy this great

event. You don't have to keep them apart or anything? No. Talking

about the American presidential race, it's clear that the money

question is big again. Now last time round, Obama working with

people like yourself, slightly changed the rules and raised a huge

amount of money. Now Mitt Romney seems to be outspending him. Is

this a financial arms race that And think he is proud raising them

at the moment. The Supreme Court issued a case that has allowed

these super parks for people to give unlimited amount of money not

disclosing who they are, and spend it as long as they are not in co-

ordination with the candidate. That has never happened before and it

has opened a Pandora's box of fund- raising, so the more wealthy

individuals can affect the election. That has been the difference. In

terms of traditional fund-raising, the President has raised more at

this point. The other issue is Syria - do you think America has a

sense of frustrated impotence about being held back, or do you think

the fear about what might follow President Bashar al-Assad is

raining in the West? I don't think fear is a factor at this point,

better the devil you know than you don't know, but we you'll feel,

every country, with the exception of Russia and China, feel that what

is going on in Syria is a horrible situation. It is obviously a civil

war. While I don't think there is any appetite in my country at this

moment for military intervention, I think non-lethal aid is being given

and we are being as supportive as we can. Frankly, both President

Obama and secretary of state Clinton have said that he must go.

Thank you for joining us. Two great names and classical music

coincide this week at the Proms, where Daniel Barenboim is

conducting or Beethoven's symphonies. Daniel Barenboim has

lived most of his life in the public glare as a child prodigy at

the piano, husband of the British cellist Jacqueline du Pre, and more

recently as a campaigner for peace in the Middle East. He is appearing

with the orchestra which he founded to bring Israeli and Arab musicians

together, and here they are performing at the Royal Albert Hall

Daniel Barenboim is with me. Welcome. Thank you. After hearing

that, I must ask you to start with... We have heard nobody is

harder to conduct than Beethoven - would you agree with that? Yes and

No. Beethoven is everything, it is dramatic, lyrical, epic. The only

one thing he is not, and that is superficial. Therefore, when you

have to deal permanently and exclusively with dissensions, it is

challenging. -- ascension. Music is in a way parallel to our lives.

There is so much in the Beethoven's symphonic cycle that is very

familiar to everyone, whether written is the Choral Symphony, and

so on, so is there are special task in cleaning it and refreshing it

because it is so familiar to people? Familiarity does not

necessarily have to breed contempt. Familiarity in music can be a very

positive element. When you are familiar with something, and we

notice it at these concert at the Proms, we play symphonies by

Beethoven with other lesser known symphonies in between. By playing

them with music that is familiar, these works themselves become much

more accessible. You are recording a Beethoven piano concerto, and

much more - it is a big project you have on - from the First Symphony,

you are listening to something that sounds completely different from

anything that has been written before. It is different from Mozart,

and the second symphony is even more different and so on. In all of

this work, do you feel you have penetrated the mystery of what

happened? Why it suddenly sounds so different? I don't know if I have

penetrated the mystery, but I am more and more aware of the fact

that Beethoven was one of those composers who looked for or felt

the need to find a new idiom for every symphony. You can't say the

same for the piano sonatas, but in the symphonies were there is only

nine, there are nine definitely different idioms. The people who

only know the fifth, for instance, and here the pastoral for the first

time must think it is by a different composer, it is so

totally different. Let's talk a little bit about the orchestra,

because people are trying to imagine one day a community in

which Israelis and Palestinians can live together and communicate well

together, possibly the nearest thing may have won the pilot at the

moment is your orchestra. Of course, but in the orchestra you have what

you don't have on the ground and that is complete equality. When

there is an oboe solo, and that is played by the Israeli, the

Palestinian musicians wish him well, and that does not happen on the

ground. That is the main difference. The orchestra can do a lot. It is

very flattering that it is so often mentioned as an orchestra for peace,

but of course it isn't. Do you feel pretty despairing at the moment? It

must be hard to keep your optimism or about the political situation.

am completely... I wouldn't say pessimistic. I am a realist and I

realised it is going nowhere because the solutions are out of

the realm of possibility, but the world has always gone on and then

at least has the capacity to turn 180 degrees in 24 hours, and that

is my optimism. For a great privilege to have you on the show.

He is a man who, I think it's fair to say, enjoys being in the

spotlight, and as mayor of the Olympic host city there is a lot of

spotlight. Boris Johnson has been telling critics of the Olympic

Games to put a sock in it, also criticising with wisecracks. Boris

Johnson is with me. Welcome. Good morning. Do you think people

whingeing about the Olympics or asking questions are being

unpatriotic? Of course not. It is the duty of the media to shine and

inconvenience spotlight on whatever they find in order to hold people

like me to account and make sure we do a good job. If you look at what

the head of the Olympic Committee had to say last night, he said he

thinks our city is as well prepared as any city has been in the history

of the Olympic Games and that is a great tribute to the work of LOCOG

and anyone who has been involved in this for many years. There are two

areas that must be concerning you - one will be the transport system

and the other will be security. There have been stories today about

traffic lights being phased so people can't get into London, and a

lot of people will be wondering if the trains are working, if there

will be enough room on the tube. What is your message? So far the

traffic system and the transport networks are holding up well. Touch

wood, you can never count your chickens, but it is looking OK at

the moment. Possibly what we are going through at the moment as a

nation is that necessary moment of psychological self- depression

before the excitement begins on Friday when the curtain goes up. It

is only natural that people should be tense, expectant, and of course

there are loads of things we need to get right but today you have the

torch going through London again and yesterday we had record crowds

watching the torch going through parts of London. It is a fantastic

day for the improving national gathering excitement about the

games. Going Wordsworth on us. Let's talk about the threat of some

of the immigration officials who say they will walkout on strike in

the middle of this. That presumably gets you hot under the collar?

don't think that whatever they do it will disrupt the Olympics or our

preparations, or ability to get people through safely on time to

the venues. Secondly, if you look at the numbers who voted to go on

strike, it is a very badly supported strike and I don't think

people will want to lower down the Olympics. The overwhelming majority

of people working on the borders Agency will want to get behind the

Olympic Games and come to work. lot of people are desperately

hoping that out of these Olympic Games, Britain gets some kind of

economic lift, and yet quite a lot of the analysts say it will be more

like a blip. What are you doing to make sure the Olympic Games

leverage extra profit for British companies? The ice is a gigantic --

this will be all about schmoozing, and we will be showing what London

has to offer, making it clear there are fantastic opportunities for

investment. At Battersea, in the Royal Docks, in Brent Cross,

Tottenham, there are many opportunities and we will be

selling London, but don't forget the Olympic Games have already been

responsible for fantastic investment in this city. Pension

funds across the world are investing in the Olympic site. We

have a massive investment in the form of the Westfield shopping

centre, to say nothing of the transport investment that is going

in now and transforming London so I defy the critics of the Olympics to

say this is not producing economic benefits. We can make sure they

continue to deliver long-term returns. Her damaging is it when

you see stories that the terrible shambles that G4S has managed to

achieve. There is another story about a minister's daughter,

outrageous bending of the rules and so on, and these people will be in

charge of security of the Olympics. I saw that, and of course LOCOG

will be looking into whatever happened there, but the key thing

at the moment is that the venues are safe and that G4S staff, which

we should distinguish away from the bosses, the staff on the ground at

the venues are doing a fantastic job, working very well now with the

military. If you go round the venues and look at what is

happening, it is working very well and it looks great. The you have

been a great supporter of the British banking system, which has

been under such a lot of pressure. How worried are you at the moment

by the way that New York and other financial centres are saying London

is a problem, it is no longer the financial centre of good law and

good behaviour? People are trying to look set London's applecart.

my message is give me a break. Of course they are, and it has being

going on for hundreds of years. We have international competitors who

would love to will knock London off its perch. But don't forget, for

all its troubles, London remains the financial centre on earth. The

sub-prime prices... My message to Americans is that the sub-prime

prices Friday began in the United States. You know that quite a lot

of the individual banking problems did come from people working in

London and that the perception that London has not been well regulated

is a pretty well founded one soma question is really what the

politicians now need to do to make sure London's financial reputation

Well, the most important thing is for the economy to get back to

growth and for confidence to return. I don't think we want to go through

an endless orgy of stable door banging and excessive regulation on

the financial services sector, which is actually one of the few

sectors in the economy showing signs of growth and putting on jobs.

London will remain as long as we have a system of global capitalism

and frankly, in spite of all the agonising in the last four years,

we haven't found an alternative, London will remain the best place

in which to set up your international headquarters, to

raise capital - But the rules have to be strengthened, don't they?

depends which rules you're talking about, Andrew. What I certainly

don't think you should do is try to address people's general economic

malaise and anxiety by overregulating one sector and

causes gloom in financial services. What you want to see is banks

having the confidence and the courage once again to lend to

businesses. They can't do that at the same time as they're being told

endlessly to be cautious and to rebuild their balance sheets. We

need to see business being given the loan that's they need. Let's

extend this from the banking sector to the economy generally. We have,

it seems we have a third successive quarter of recession and talk of

eight years ahead of economic bleakness and grimness. What is the

Boris Johnson answer to getting the economy moving, because everyone is

looking for one? Well, don't forget, we had quite good job figures the

other day. And what they showed actually, particularly in London,

there employment is growing. The answer is to stimulate confidence,

make sure that businesses have the loans that they need. How should

that be done? To get young people into work through a very, very

widespread apprenticeship scheme. What I worry about is that people

are losing confidence, losing energy, losing enthusiasm and there

will be, there's a real opportunity to get them into work. Do you think

there needs to be a further stimulus, a further economic

stimulus with all the money that the Bank of England was handing

over to the banks has not been handed over to businesses across

Britain to allow them to invest and employ people? Sure, I mean,

generally, what the country needs in my view, is we need the eurozone

crisis to come to an end. As I've said repeatedly, so far my words

are falling on deaf ears in Brussels. That boil has got to be

lanced. You've got to bring that nightmare to an end one way or

north, better an end with horror than a horror without end. I think

there should be a bisection of the euro. I don't foresee a long-term

solution until you deal the uncompetitiveness in that part of

the eurozone. Those are things that British politicians can't do much

about. Assuming that won't happen, we have to face the grim reality

that they're determined to go on with the euro nightmare, that we're

not going to succeed in persuading them to abandon that project,

assuming they don't, assuming the confidence remains low in the rest

of Europe, I think here in Britain we need to drive ahead with

infrastructure schemes of the kind that George Osborne is rightly

championing and you know what I think, I think that London is the

motor of the UK economy. I think a pound invested in London will

deliver more for the economy as a whole than a pound invested

virtually anywhere else. That's why I think it crucial we get on

solving problems such as aviation, the long-term competitiveness of

the UK is going to be dependent on having a far sighted approach it

aviation capacity. A more aggressive... A new hub airport.

more aggressive plan for growth is what you're really saying, isn't

it? Because the alternative is eight years of this. You're putting

words into my mouth. I think that George Osborne and the coalition

are embarked on the right, I'd like to see a bit more supply-side stuff.

More could be done. I'm sure that the Government would love to do it,

to get on with allowing businesses to take on staff more easily. But I

would like to see, no doubt about, it I would like to see a very

aggressive campaign for more infrastructure. It can be readily

financed, as we've seen with the Olympic investments. There are

funds out there, sovereign wealth funds around the world who are only

too happy to come and invest in this country. They see it as a

fantastic long-term bet. And what it needs is the political will to

get on and do those projects. there a danger in overdoing the

gloom, therefore and saying this could go on for many, many years to

come? Yes, of course. There's a danger of overdoing the gloom. I'm

not going to accuse the BBC of being gloomy. I was thinking of

David Cameron who was talking about this going on for another eight

years. Well, I don't think there's any reason at all why it should go

on for another eight years. If we can, you know, look Bradley Wiggins

is about to win the Tour De France, how about that. How can anybody in

this country... I think that's a very bold non-seqete re-. Thank you

for joining us this morning. Not at all. Now the news headline.

Thank you. The Mayor of London has said the UK is as well prepared for

the Olympics as any country in the history of the Games. Boarery

Johnson told this programme there were bound to be pre-curtain up

nerves. He said the possible strike at Heathrow would not cause serious

disruption. He insisted that the Olympic venues would be safe and

secure, despite continuing worries about the security company G4S.

Bradley Wiggins looks set to secure a place among Britain's sporting

greats today by becoming the first British winner of the Tour De

France in its 109-year history. Only an accident can prevent

Wiggins clinching the title this afternoon. He's more than three

minutes ahead of his nearest rival and there's a tradition that the

race leader isn't challenged on the final day.

Good luck to him. That's all from me, for now. The next news on BBC

One is at midday. Back to Andrew in a moment. Let's look at what's

coming up after this show. Today on Sunday Morning Live, with

over 100,000 failing families in England, should we take children

away from more of them? The Government gave the go ahead for

three free schools run by creationists, should they? And has

the Olympics lost its soul? See you at 10pm.

Many thanks. Now when no lesser a composer than Burt Bacharact writes

songs for you, you have arrived. Seasons of my soul established

Rumer worldwide. But she's turned to the 70s again, show casing a

voice that many likened to a legend of that ear ya, Karen Carpenter.

That's nice to hear. You've chosen to go back to a part of popular

music history that many people will have forgotten about, which is the

early 1970s, singer song writers, a lot of them blokes with hair about

the same length as yours is now and floral shirts and so on. What was

the attraction of that era? It was a rich musical time. The era of the

singer song writer, so there was so much music to discover. They're all

men actually. All the songs are written by men. Was that an

important part of your education? Because you have been all offer the

place in terms of the kind of music that you seem to have enjoyed.

wanted to narrow my study and go in deep and sometimes when you have to

go in deep you have to narrow what you're studying. I wanted to look

at male emotion and have a landscape of that. What are some of

the names that people, you would advise people to go back to and

listen again? Vansant is amazing. Jimmy Webb. There's a lot of others.

You have nice early Neil Young I notice. Yeah. Just so many. I have

all the album covers on my CD, so people can chase them up. You are a

singer song writer, are you recording as well? Yes, I am. I'm

just domoing my new album ideas. That's quite exciting. What about,

because I think I can reveal your name isn't really Rumer. Where did

that come from, it's a microphone name, I guess. It's interesting

because my mother was a fan of Rumer Goden the writer. She died

and she left me books to read about India and I lost the list. All I

could remember was Rumer. thought that's a good name. When I

found the list... You are singing for us, what? Bob Marley, soul

rebel. That is almost it this week. We're off on our summer break until

September, when we're back with our first show of the Autumn run. It

will look slightly different. Only slightly, because the essential

ingredients will be the same. Now for this morning, we leave you with

the voice of Rumer and bob Marley's # I'm a rebel, soul rebel,

# I'm a capturer, soul adventurer. # See the morning sun,

# On the hillside # If you're not living right,

# I beg ya travel wide. # Said I'm a, said I'm a,

# Said I'm a living man # I got work to do

# If you're not happy, # Then you must be blue

# Must be blue, # I'm a rebel,

# Let them talk. # Soul rebel, # Talk won't bother me. # I'm a

capturer, # Did you hear what they said? #

Soul adventurer, # Night and day, night and day

# See the morning sun, # On the hillside

# If you're not living good, # I beg ya travel wide

# Said I'm a, said I'm a, # Said I'm a living man