05/05/2013 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning. Apparently we are heading into the hottest day of the

year. Maybe we had it last week when a UKIP power surge caused the

Conservative and Liberal Democrat council seats to meltdown. Lots of

that in the Sunday papers. We are joined by Labour MP David Lammy and

director of campaign group Liberty, Shami Chakrabarti. If you are Nigel

Farage, you pour yourself a pint of warm beer. If you are a cabinet

minister like Defence Secretary Philip Hammond, what you do? He has

a busy in trained in his department. We will also ask him about Syria

and Afghanistan. Things would not be complete without Nigel Farage.

He was painted as a clown, he is now a serious contender. But for

what exactly? After Jimmy Savile came Stuart Hall. Both committed

sexual attacks inside the BBC, it seems. Is the organisation damaged

again? I will ask the chairman of the BBC Trust about trust in the

BBC and his effort to restore it. And two actresses, one character.

We will hear from Zoe Wanamaker and Samantha Bond about playing

different aspects of the same person in a new production. All

that and Nigel Kennedy, also. The unconventional violinist is here

with a track from his new album in which Bach meets Brubeck and other

jazz greats. First, the morning headlines.

A Conservative MP has been released on bail after being arrested on

suspicion of rape and sexual assault. Nigel Evans is a deputy

speaker of the House of Commons. It is understood he was questioned

about alleged attacks on two men in their twenties. The Prime Minister

was informed. Nigel Evans was arrested by police in Lancashire

yesterday. Last night they confirmed he was released on bail.

So far he has not commented. The police did not name him. In a

police did not name him. In a The alleged victims are said to be

in their twenties. He was elected in 1992. He was born in Swansea and

served as shadow Welsh secretary when the Conservatives were in

opposition. He is regarded as opposition. He is regarded as

energetic by colleagues. We have to wait to see what the specific

questions being raised the mat two. I know him extremely well over many

I know him extremely well over many I know him extremely well over many

years. I am very deeply concerned - - amount to. He was elected as

deputy speaker in 2010. In the same year came a -- in the Senate, he

came out as gay, saying he did not want to lie -- in the same year.

State media in Syria said Israeli missiles had hit a scientific

research centre in Damascus. The centre was a target of an Israeli

strike in January. Big explosions have been heard and footage shows a

ball of fire. It is not yet possible to confirm exactly what

happened. Two days ago Israeli forces bombed what was said to be a

convoy of missiles in Syria heading for a Lebanese militant group

Hezbollah. The Foreign Secretary William Hague

has said that the local election results do not mean the

Conservative Party needs a drastic change of course. He responded to

these show of support for the UK Independence Party, which averaged

one quarter of the vote in the wards it contested. Mr Hague said

that the Conservatives understand the concerns of voters who worry

about immigration, welfare and the cost of living.

A survey by Which? Suggests an one in five households have to borrow

or use savings to cover the cost of their food shopping. Which? Said

the findings were based on interviews of 2000 people and a

shocking and showed that many households are stretched to a

financial breaking-point. That is all for me, I will be back

just before 10am. We can look at the front pages

today. Joining me to review the papers, David Lammy and Shami

Chakrabarti. We heard Nigel Evans mentioned in the Bulletin, on the

front page of the Observer newspaper. Budget plans in the

Independent newspaper. Again, the Deputy Speaker. A related story to

Madeleine McCann in the Daily Express. UK Independence Party as

saying they would do a deal with Boris. Again, the Nigel Evans story.

Michael Jackson. Where do we start? We have to start with the Deputy

Speaker. He is in all the papers. In the Mail on Sunday we seek

detailed photographs of the police investigation at his home. -- we

see photographs. Police have been working closely with various

newspapers on this. You think the police might have called the

newspapers in so they could photograph? I do not know. This is

as it happened. I would remind people in this country we arrest

people on suspicion. We charge them when we have evidence to charge

them. We convict them when we are sure. We need to remember that.

There is significant interest in the rest of the Deputy Speaker. He

is a significant figure in public life. He is innocent until proved

guilty. He has not been charged. Stories are everywhere, but we

could do well to remember that. volume of material on the front

pages. I have the Independent newspaper which has a balance story.

It is a developing story. It is unusual to see a time line like

this as it is happening. It will be shocking and Westminster. He is a

popular MP a cross the House of Commons. We do not know the details.

It is too early. Innocent until proven guilty, particularly for

such a serious offence. The he can remain as Deputy Speaker while he

is on bail? It is too soon to tell. That would be a matter for him, his

local party. We gather he is making a statement this morning. Following

on from that, we have a debate about how much the police should

co-operate with journalists when somebody has been arrested. I have

said some things about this on behalf of Liberty. There is a story

suggesting I am about to make an attack on the new press laws. What

I have done is to talk about the need for discretion when deciding

what to say about arresting suspects. Lord Justice Leveson did

not call for a blanket ban on confirming the names of people

arrested. There are times when it is important, there is an

opportunity for witnesses and other victims to come forward. It seems

as if the Leveson idea is in real trouble. I am not sure of that.

There are two Press charters. One was advanced by politicians, the

other by the press themselves. They are not a world apart. We will look

closely at the detail of both in the weeks ahead. Whether I am set

to make an attack, and let you find, whether I am capable of being

electrifying on a Sunday morning! It is coming. Did journalists speak

to you? They have spoken to my colleagues. The issue is you cannot

have blanket policies on something as important as when the police

confirm the names of people arrested. We have to talk about the

man sitting in the studio. Independence Party are all over the

papers. In the Observer newspaper, it breaks down who supported them.

They were male, in the south-east and the Midlands, working class.

Huge consequences for the Conservatives. Strong suggestions

from right-leaning newspapers that David Cameron will be moving to the

right to gather that ground. Those of us who follow politics recognise

that you can lose the centre ground when you react in this way.

Questions for your party, as well. You are supposed to be the

opposition and they are doing a good job of that. They are not

taking many votes from us. Probably, we should be happy we are gaining

seats in places such as Harlow and Stevenage and those areas of the

country where we cannot come to power unless we Pickup and win the

hearts and minds of people in Middle England. 29%. We could not

find you as low as that in all the years of opposition. Over tea years

since the last election. We have a way to go -- it is over two years.

We have European elections. We have London. I suspect we will do better

then. It is a slow advance to victory. This UK Independence Party

phenomenon is more complex. I have met Nigel Farage many times,

including reviewing the papers on this programme. The idea that you

appeal to those who voted for UK Independence Party by being nasty

to foreigners and authoritarian on law and order is simplistic. I have

sat with him on debating programmes when he has sat with me against

identity cards and locking up people without trial. The Telegraph

today suggests you bring back those voters by coming out of human

rights laws. Maybe this should be put to Nigel Farage now he has had

the success. He can perhaps answer for himself and his party as to how

they feel about it. On taxation, important domestic issues such as

same-sex marriage, on many issues, UK Independence Party will come

under scrutiny. Nigel Farage thought that UKIP is more than --

is more a mindset than a set of policies. We have had charismatic

outsiders who can be attracted. But there is a time when you have to

her policies. Human rights related. William Hague is saying we have to

get the last citizen back from Guantanamo. President Obama spoke

out against it a few days ago. It is scandalous. 11 years. No justice.

No proper trial. No proper conviction. What are we going to do

about it? You have something on for speeding. And all kinds of

brutality. The former military prosecutor. An officer he was

posted there. He is saying it must be closed down. The President has

said this would stop our government has said this. -- the President has

said this. I thought President Obama sign something publicly.

set himself a time limit. He has breached the time limit. Presumably

he had other political priorities. There are always other political

priorities, particularly in a recession, that seemed to be higher

than human rights. He recognises that it is making the United States

and its allies less safe. It is such a recruiting ground for

terrorism. This is about the Human Rights Act. Two people who

ransacked shops. They frightened and intimidated people during the

riots. They cannot be deported, despite the fact they are not

British nationals, because of the Human Rights Act. It is the right

to family life. They will have established they have strong links.

Therefore they should not go back in this case to Zimbabwe. There was

rioting in your constituency. the shopkeepers and people who had

their homes burned down, it is difficult. We are laying a lot at

the Human Rights Act, but where is the balance? With these stories,

you never get the whole story in a newspaper report about the small

number of people who cannot be deported. There is a presumption

when you have committed a serious crime and you are a foreign

national, you get deported. Many people do every week. A small

number cannot be deported. It is not safe to go home, they have been

here so long. Keira Knightley.Nice to have something happy for a

change. She is in all the papers. She is a fantastic actress. She has

had an understated wedding weekend? John Hammond can tell us.

For the most part, but there are some ceptions, so we are not all

going to enjoy it, but the vast majority will have a pleasant day

today and tomorrow will be even warmer. I mentioned the exceptions.

They are across the west of Scotland in particular. The best of the sun

is further south and east. A fine day, with light winds and

temperature widely up into the mid-teens to high teens. Even across

parts of Lancashire and Cumbria, things will pick up. Northern

Ireland will see brightness. Eastern Scotland will see warm sun, but it's

the west that stays rather cloudy with dampness and cooler. More of

the same on Monday. Most areas will be dry and a lot of sunshine across

England and Wales. Temperatures are set to soar. You can see the chart

turning yellow. It will turn orange indicating highs of 20. That is

conservative. 23 or 24. Possibly the warmest day of the year so far.

Enjoy, it's not going to last. The rest of the week, we go back down to

Earth with a bang. Cooler and breezier. Welcome rain for

gardeners. It's been a prolonged dry gardeners. It's been a prolonged dry

spell. Thank you. Now we know that another of the BBC's household

names, Stuart Hall, is serious of sexual -- guilty of serious sexual

crimes. Again, the question is asked just as it was with Jimmy Savile,

does the BBC take responsibility or turn a blind eye? These are pressing

matters for Lord Patten who went through the whole crisis and has now

hit two years in the job and he joins us now. Good morning to you.

Hello. This does bring back all the issues that came up, doesn't it?

Yeah. Dame Janet Smith, the judge who is looking at the background to

this, whether the BBC was complicit, turned a blind eye, knew what was

going on and didn't do anything, I hope that will embarrass what is

happening with Stuart Hall as well. They are awful, awful allegations

and stories and of course we look back on the 60s and 70s and we know

that way of treating women and employees is something that was

thank God, put an end to by feminism, which people used to sneer

about. A producer in Manchester in the 60s and 70s, said Hall had a

room set aside at the BBC and others were helping get women into it.

Well, if that's true, it's appalling and it's exactly the sort of thing

that Janet Smith will be investigating. Is she up to that

job? Yes, but if she needs any more resources, if we need to do any

more, we will of course, because one thing which we have shown already

with Nick Pollard's report and Diana Roast's report is we want to get to

grips with this awful business. the past we have left it to the

police and ITV, haven't we? Were there particular problems with the

Saville case, which is why we had that inquiry in what went wrong with

Newsnight. What he demonstrated is while it was a terrible mistake not

to carry a report on him, it wasn't a result of trying to cover up the

co-operate reputation of the BBC. corporate reputation of the BBC. Do

you think there has been a malaise in the BBC? We need to get a grip on

current affairs in particular. We do some wonderful current affairs

investigating and journalists like Peter Taylor, like John Weir and

Jane Colvin. We have to make sure we continue to do that, but do so in a

way which is balanced and fair. whole Jamie Saville and Hall story,

are you ready for more to come out? Plainly, there was something about

the celebrity culture in the past which meant that people were

prepared apparently to turn a blind eye to behaviour which wasn't

excentric and thoroughly unpleasant. This is a victim of Hall, I would go

so far as to say they were helped in their abuse by other BBC staff,

because they must have known. that was the Kay Andijanet Smith is

looking at it, then we want to see the evidence and get it out in

public and deal with it in this way. The Stuart Hall victims want a

separate inquiry? Well, I think to set up a new inquiry, when there's

already one which is is extremely well resourced operating, would

probably delay arriving at the truth, which is presumably what they

want. It's not purpose-built for Stuart Hall, is it? No, but it's

built for what one wants to investigate, which is the culture

which allowed this to happen. If we need to do more, we will and at the

end of the day, what we have to do is to provide answers which will

satisfy people that we have been prepared to deal with our own dirty

washing. Will the BBC be liable for compensation in the case? I believe

so, but it will be for the courts. Have you thought about how much?

would be incredible to do that, because what needs to happen is we

immediate to get a grip on what actually happened and we need, of

course, in the meantime, to co-operate fully with the police.

It's a different case to the Savile case because the main person who is

alleged to have committed the crimes - the person in the other case is

actually alive. Part of the damage was caused by the DG's first

response to all of this and he went after 54 days and you appointed him.

Do you at some point have to take your only responsibility for that?

Well, we have to take responsibility as a Trust for appointing George

enterenter. -- George Entwhistle. I'm chairman, so we appointed

unanimously the person we thought was best for the job and ironically,

the very issues that he had argued he wanted to tackle when he became

DG were the issues that actually pulled him down, so we then

appointed a new Director General within about 12 days. We were

commended for acting swiftly and decisively and I very much hope that

the new DG, who is an outstanding man, will continue to put the BBC

back on an even keel, what is surprising, this isn't grounds for

smugness or complacency, but the figures for trust in the BBC have

bounced back. Up until we got the Stuart Hall story, that's true. You

are being attacked again in public by John Whittingdale who heads the

culture committee, who says you are damaged and looking tired and grey.

What to comment on that. It's for other people to say whether I am

looking tired and grey. Damaged?I don't think honestly anybody

fair-minded could blame me for what happened in the 60s and 70s and 80s,

though I'm extremely sad that it did happen. Greg Dyke saying it's time

for an early bath? If Greg Dyke was doing an interview on flower

arranging he would turn it into an attack on me. It's worth remembering

he presided over the BBC at the last big crisis and as a result we have

the presence system of governance, which was changed because of the

Greg Dyke business. Looking forward, what changes do you want to see in

the BBC at the next -- in the next couple of years? I want to see us

giving value for money to the licence-fee payer and besting

better-quality programmes and the figures for trust, which have come

back remarkably, perhaps damaged by the Hall case, continue to grow,

because it's important for us to be trusted as a great national

institution. You have a new DG. Is that a fresh start now? He's

terrific. He's both, as I've said, a sigh of relief and a wind of change.

He's a really, really good and creative head of the BBC. He did a

brilliant job at the Royal Opera House and he's appointed appointing

a very good team. Thank you. We started the week as clowns and

fruitcakes, but by the end of it the main parties were queuing up to pay

their respects to UKIP and the supporters. They've been warned the

flip says side of being taken more seriously is they'll be put under

more scrutiny and the details of policies and the aim of the party

will be looked at. We are joined by their leader, Nigel Farage. Welcome.

Good morning. What is this all about? Is this you trying to win

power or just adjust the Conservatives, the course they're

on? It's very interesting. People obsess about our effect on the

Conservative Party, completing we -- completely ignoring that we knocked

the Liberal Democrats out and we picked up more points from Labour

Party. We scored 24% in the by-election. Most of the points

coming from -- What is it all about and where is it all heading?

Changing British politics. We have had enough of three parties that are

virtually merging into one. The coalition, the opposition, frankly

there are very few serious differences between them. We want

our country back from Brussels. That's number one, otherwise we

can't govern ourselves and we want to control our borders, because

whilst we have no prejudice, immigration is out of control for

last ten years. If the Conservatives move into the zones you want them to

be in, which is what you've been trying to engineer so far, then it's

job done, is it? They'll not do that. We are talking about it this

weekend. I know they're talking about it, but they don't mean it and

everyone knows that. David Cameron set the course of this coalition

government and the own leadership has been pro-EU and open-door

immigration and building wind turbines over our green and pleasant

land. Had he puts a U-turn, good luck, but don't think we are a press

sewer group that will go away, because somebody in Downing Street

starts singing the same song. string of Conservative MPs are

starting to say, hang on, the EU needs sorting out and immigration,

so if you take David Cameron out of the picture and then do you have

what you want then? If David Cameron gets removed and I suppose given

that we have a European election coming up before the next general

election, it's not impossible. If he was removed and somebody else was

put in place, who wanted to talk to us and say shall we find an

accommodation, we'll consider it. It's not my priority. Mine is to

build a new political party and movement in this country that wants

to stand up for the interests of ordinary people. You need policies

across the piece on potholes for example? We heard some of your

candidates. UKIP hasn't previously had much to say on other areas.

We'll find out, because we have established the bridges I wanted on

County Councils up and down the country and we'll take that

seriously. We have to prove to people what we can do in local

government. Looking at your 2010 manifesto, just for example, on

transport, you called for three new high-speed rail lines. The local

elections and you campaign against the only one they're planning on.

You went on the march. Quite right. It's slower now from Penzance to

Paddington than it was in 1914. So there's a very good argument of

upgrading lines and bringing benefit. Not to spend over �40

billion to build a line through the countryside that will only benefit

rich commuters. You want three new ones and not the one? We don't want

H S 2. On tax, the Times looked at your proposals and you want to cut

taxes by 90 billion and spend an extra 30. They say it's 120 billion

black hole. Complete rubbish. They've taken the view that if we

could get rid of NS that would be marvellous for jobs. That would cost

50 billion. We say in the document we couldn't do it now. This is all

rubbish. What they haven't done is taken into account in 2010 where we

set the cuts and savings should come. They haven't done that

deliberately. Honestly, if we look at the Labour Party right now, they

have no policy at all for the next election. The current Government's

figures have failed and we are in 130 billion black hole and we will

next year, before the general election, put a fully costed

proposal for how to cut taxes and I would net to give money to the

European Union and wasting money on foreign aid -- I would not. �60

billion in year is spent in this country on quangos. There are

people in politics who want to be something and those who want to do

something. My priority is to make sure my children grow up in a

country they call their own. you getting carried away? You get

23% of the vote in local elections but you do not get a single council.

You know the problem is magnified with the general election with the

first-past-the-post system. I am not getting carried away. You are,

saying do I want to be Prime Minister? It is fascinating. We are

the party with the broadest appeal across the country. Old Labour

voters, rural Tory voters. We are a genuinely national political party.

To succeed in Westminster, we have to build from here. Please do not

think it is impossible. UKIP is here to stay. Let me ask you if you

want to be an MP? I have been a member of the European Parliament

which I have enjoyed in many ways. I would not stand in a by-election

before next year. 20th June 14 we have the European election. That is

the day on which I believe UKIP can cause an earthquake in British

politics. I will stand for a seat in 2015. Have you decided which?I

will think about it. I have been rather busy doing other things!

does sum up the problem for your party that it is a one-man show.

do not think it is. The lady who stood for us in the Eastleigh by-

election die and James appear to on programmes last week. -- Diane

James. Paul Nuttall. He is also popular. He comes from a working-

class background, but she does not happen much any more. Encounter is

up and down the country, we will have local representatives with a

big local media presence. Thanks for joining us.

Deception, adultery and betrayal are at the heart of Peter Nichols'

Passion Play. It is a vibrant piece of theatre that has been revived to

great success and arrives in London's West End this week. It

stars two of our finest actresses, Zoe Wanamaker and Samantha Bond, in

a strong cast. Passion Play sees one actress playing the other's

inner voice, her alter ego. The dramatic effect of this is as

striking as is it revealing, but it's also very funny. I asked own

stars about the challenge of playing the same character on stage

at the same time. And what it has to say about love and marriage.

is a fantastic device. This is what makes Peter's work brilliant. Also

in day in the Death of Joe Egg. He has this comedic side which makes

it funny and amusing. There is the darker edge Peter has.

That is want -- that is what men want to hear. Pornography. Violence

without bruises. Either you go with her, you stay with me. There is a

lot of deceit. Do you play these parts and think, is this what life

is really like? It is quite depressing. It is not a depressing

play. It deals with a deep and often touching and tragic thing

that happens in life. We are talking about marital infidelity.

He makes it funny. It suggests you get to 50 and you cannot hold a

long relationship. Not necessarily. Passion is not the prerogative of

the young. It is a crisis of a 25- year-old marriage, which is not

unusual. Any experiences in your lives, the lives of others, where

you think I have done that. Not in our personal lines, but we have

seen friends go through it. -- lives. Friends will come to see it

and maybe something in their past they have not told you is played

out on the stage. It will be uncomfortable for some people.

The you can volunteer information about your life. There is the

extraordinary character of the young widow. She strikes fear and

chaos into the hearts of those around her. Is she a real-life sort

of person? People around you are young, determined to break up or to

marriages? I do not know about the determination. I think it is based

on a certain amount of reality. had a girlfriend like her in her

twenties. She is now happily married. Let me ask you about other

projects. Ethel Wodehouse. A complex story. PG Wodehouse ends up

on the radio support in Germany by accident almost in the Second World

War. How does she fit into that? She adored him. The feeling was

mutual. She was outspoken. How could you be so bloody stupid?

find it all too easy to be stupid, I am afraid. Do not give me that

line again. I am in love with you for some peculiar reason and you

are not stupid. You are a clever man who is pretending to be stupid.

They were very much in love. The period the writer wrote about was

his exile, he was interned in Germany and inadvertently got

himself on to the radio. He started writing slightly ironic, and

telling ironic stories, of what life was like in the camp. It

caused anger and upset. Can I ask you about Downton. It was suggested

you left it. This was one journalist to decided to print this.

I have just recorded it. You said you like popping in and out of it.

I did not say I did not like it, I said it is odd to flit in and out.

Which is different. I do enjoy it. It is a sensation. Why? Partly

because it is beautifully made. The scripts, at the beginning, they

were new and vibrant. The attention to detail is astonishing. There is

nothing that is not exact. You will be asked this all the time. Is

there any way of comparing the screen with the stage? Do you long

for the stage when you are away? do. When you are in one, you want

to be in the other! That is true. Three months into a rounded you

want a camera. When you are standing in the field, freezing

cold, you want the Live Theatre. They are different disciplines.

When your art -- when you are away from one you forget it. I was in

this theatre watching you to do the same thing, being this person. To

conclude, you have to get on to be able to do this together? It would

be tricky if we did not get on. You are working very closely. Sometimes

you have to make decisions together in rehearsal. One of you might have

decided you felt about a situation in a particular way, and your

brains have to meet on it. There is the lovely physical challenge of

watching your colleague do something, and trying to echo it.

Zoe Wanamaker and Samantha Bond, thanks.

Very nice to meet them. The Defence Secretary is back from his first

meeting with his US counterpart Chuck Hagel. No doubt Syria was on

the agenda with the regime's alleged use of chemical weapons

perhaps sharpening the case for intervention. There is Afghanistan,

where more British troops died last week. The loss of life is all the

harder when the end of the mission is in sight. Closer to home, the

Chancellor wants more spending cuts. Philip Hammond is sending him off.

We will find out about that as he joins us. We will start with Syria.

News from overnight is that there has been a strike by Israel in

Damascus. We are not sure what it is on. I have seen the reports. I

do not think it is helpful to spare Israel has consistently said if it

sees weapons moving to has -- to Hezbollah or. We have to look at

reports in his -- in this context. These are unconfirmed reports.

Israel has been consistent about drawing a red line, as they say,

around weapons moving out of Syria and into the hands of Hezbollah,

which they would see as a threat. The Americans seem to have a red

line on Syria's use of chemical weapons. You met Chuck Hagel. Are

they minded to arm the rebels? Chuck Hagel said at the press

conference on Thursday, America is looking again at the question of

potentially arming the opposition groups. They are in the same place

we are. They are alarmed by the limited but persuasive evidence

there is that chemical weapons used may have taken place. They are also

keen to establish the facts and put them in front of the international

community, ideally to the United Nations. Two years and there is no

sense of urgency. I think there is a sense of urgency. Nobody is

suggesting chemical weapon used has taken place over two years. This is

recent. It is causing significant concern. We demand President Bashar

al-Assad allows in the United Nations team to investigate. that

would not frighten him? We need to establish whether chemical weapons

have been used. This is a crime. We need to confront the international

community with the facts and to present them to the Russians he

made it clear they would not support the use of chemical weapons,

although they have supported their regime. What is stopping us is we

are not sure. When you become sure, them what? We have not got enough

evidence. When we have evidence, we will presented to our allies. This

is not something we can deal with a loan. It is a cumbersome process.

We have seen terrible attacks over two years. Probably 70,000 people

have been killed. 1 million displaced, millions suffering. We

have to get rid of the shocking regime. But you are talking

specifically about chemical weapons. There is limited but persuasive

evidence there has been recent limited use of chemical weapons.

That is not what is delivering the tally of 70,000 people who have

been killed. The overwhelming majority of people have been killed

by conventional weapons. Even more reason to do something. We are

trying to build a coalition against the regime. As you know, some

nations are supporting that regime that have rejected and blocked any

attempt to move in the United Nations to stop this terrible set

of atrocities. Is part of your concern about arming the rebels

that you are on the wrong people? We are clear we would support the

National Coalition. We recognise them as the sole legitimate

representatives of the Syrian people. We want to strengthen the

moderates in the opposition against the extremists. That is part of the

equation we would have to take into account in deciding to change the

stance in the future. Let me ask you about Afghanistan. Three

soldiers died this week in a vehicle that is supposed to be

bomb-proof. 23 tonnes. That is concerning for you. It is very

concerning. Our thoughts are with family and friends of the men who

died this week. They died doing an important job. Although our mission

is coming to an end, we will need to expose ourselves to risk right

up to the end in order to protect forces and ensure that we

withdrawal from Afghanistan. have seemed, with the vehicles, to

have eliminated the danger of roadside bombs? We have invested

money in the best armoured vehicles. We have seen in consequence a

dramatic decline in the number of casualties due to those devices.

You cannot, 100%, protect against massive roadside bombs. Even the

most heavily armoured vehicle will have some balm ability. --

vulnerability. Afghan security forces are due to take the lead

role next month. Is that still the case? Afghan security forces have

lead responsibility in areas covering 90% of the population.

Over the next couple of months they will have taken control of security

across the whole of the country. They are leading and planning 80%

of military operations. There is a transition going on to Afghan

control of this operation. Britain knows it is coming up by 2014. That

makes every death harder to bear. The end of the mission is in sight.

Do you think we should start clearing out faster? No. We have a

clear draw down plan. It will take us through 2013 and 2014 to end the

combat mission at the end of next year. This is a planned transition

of responsibility to the Afghan people. Continuing to support them

and train them over that period. And also managing the logistics

challenge of bringing back the vast amount of equipment that we have in

Afghanistan and making sure we don't leave it behind. I think the

show sure we have is the right one. -- schedule. It is said the rule of

the Taliban is more extensive and that does measure -- does not

measure success? We have a calibrated planned to leave over

the next 18 months. That has regard to the need to support the Afghan

forces. It also has regard to the logistics challenge of bringing

equipment and people out. It is not practical or sensible to go any

faster. Can I ask you about Afghan interpreters who want to stay here.

To come here. They say they will be killed in Afghanistan. You do not

want them to. We have 11 hundreds locally employed civilians in

Afghanistan about half of them interpreters. We estimate they will

have on average between 5 and 6 dependents. We are talking about a

large number of people. We have in place a regime that is able to deal

with cases where people are under threat. We have a mechanism for

dealing with them. It is possible for people to seek settlement in

the UK if they are at risk. We are looking to build the future of

Afghanistan. We are looking to make it a success story. Some of these

people are well-educated, capable, who ought to be able to play a part

in the future of Afghanistan. We are trying to put together packages

that will make it attractive and practical to stay in Afghanistan.

Not in Helmand Province, because that would not be safe probably,

but many of them are from other parts. They are not coming to the

UK? We have not said that conclusively. We have a mechanism

for those at risk to apply for settlement in the UK. We are

talking about how we deal with the bulk of people as they enter

employment with the UK Government. How can we support them to make

their future in Afghanistan and contribute to its success. Let me

ask you about domestic politics. Calling UKIP clowns was a mistake?

The majority of the people who supported UKIP of ordinary, decent

people. Many of them are frustrated Conservatives. Frustrated at the

length of time it is taking to get the economy growing. Frustrated by

the constraints of coalition Government and how globalisation

limits the ability to control the world that affects us. We

understand those concerns. We are addressing the key issues they care

about. Immigration is down by one- third. The deficit is down. Welfare.

We have to go on doing those things. We have to double efforts to

deliver on those things that matter to ordinary people. We have to

communicate that better. We have to remind them we are governing

coalition. As we come to the general election and start to set

out the policies of the Conservative Party, for a

Conservative government after the election, we will be able to

demonstrate how we will address more clearly those concerns. That

is a long way away. You have the Queen's speech this week. You can

respond directly on the European Union, immigration. We deduce it

that way? We are reducing immigration. It is down by one-

third. We have put a limit on welfare. We are seeing the start of

Universal Credit right now. Something that the majority of

people support. The Labour Party opposed it in Parliament. On the

European Union, we have made it crystal clear a Conservative

government will hold a referendum on the membership of the European

Union in the next Parliament. Clearly, there is a head of steam

behind the idea of legislating quickly on the referendum. Are you

behind that? I understand the scepticism. We should do everything

we can to reassure people about our commitment. We should make it clear,

including publishing a bill to see what will be in it. This side of

the election? The reality is that we would not get a bill through

Parliament. The Labour Party does not want people to have a say on

Europe. The Liberal Democrats would not support it. We would not get

the Bill through Parliament. We will do everything we can do to

show a clear commitment. We have not written our manifesto. I would

imagine it will make Akeley a commitment to legislate in for the

referendum as soon as -- we will make a clear commitment. I would

support the idea of publishing a draft bill before the election.

me ask you about the Deputy Speaker. Nigel Evans under arrest for

alleged rape. He is denying that. People at Westminster are

flabbergasted. I am very shocked. I have known Nigel well for years. I

am as shocked as everybody else by the revelations. Can he remain as

Deputy Speaker? That is an interesting question. The Speaker

will have to consider that. Nigel is denying the accusations. I stick

rigidly to the view that we should treat people as innocent until

proven guilty. It is difficult to carry out a high-profile role by

being -- while being under the bail last night, after being

arrested on suspicion of rape and sexual assault. The company MP is

understood to have been questioned on alleged attacks on two men in

their 20s between 2009 and 2013. The Prime Minister has been informed of

his arrest. The leader of UKIP, Nigel Farage, has denied his party

is merely a pressure group and insisted the name is to change

British politics. He told this programme that he didn't believe the

Conservative Party would change its policies sufficiently to satisfy

voters who switched to UKIP, but he said he would be willing to discuss

an accommodation with the Tories if David Cameron were removed as

leader. He confirmed that he will stand for a Westminster seat in the

general election in 2015. That's all from me. The next news is just

before midday. Back to Jeremy and guests in one moment, but first a

look at what is coming up after this show. Join us from Birmingham, when

we'll be asking just one big question - are religions unfair to

women? We have distinguished women and two men from four faiths here

waiting to wrestle over that one. See you at 10 on BBC One. Thank you.

The violin violinist Nigel Kennedy is here. He's very passionate about

jazz and constantly pushing at musical boundaries. He has a new

album out and it mixes classical, moody jazz and traditional fiddling

Fats Wallah to Bach. It sounds like a mix. So many different forms of

music provide joy for so many people and I'm lucky to have heard it and

to be able to play some. Who are your great heroes? Menuin gave me an

education in classical and a had a lot of experience with improvised

music, so I was lucky as a young guy to have two great mentors. Tell us

about the violin you are holding. This has been cleaned about two

years ago. It's a modern fiddle and its ten years old and the neighbours

don't like it. It must be good. know you are touring and it must be

incredible to see the same faces and new faces. It's wonderful to be

playing with the musicians with the friends I have. It's more intimate

and not a big orchestra and a small group of players, playing stuff that