29/09/2013 The Andrew Marr Show

Good morning, welcome to some test Manchester, where the party

conference season concludes with the Conservatives. Last week in

Brighton, we were greatly entertained by the scurrilous

revelations of the Labour spin doctor Damian McBride, who claimed,

and can this be true, that is party conferences are nothing more than an

orgy of alcoholism and debauchery. He is a thirsty fellow himself and

said the conference was like being a naked rambler walking onto a nudist

beach. So, Tory party, listen hard. He found himself waking up one

morning, stark naked in bed, being wrestled by Ed Balls. Not a pretty

picture. Conservatives, you have been warned. You can do better. Now,

the leader 's speech is the centrepiece of every party

conference. Joining me today to review the papers is a veteran of

many a late-night rewrite, Phil Collins, former speech writer for

Tony Blair and now a columnist in the times. Beside him, from The

Spectator, Isabel Hardman, editor of the Coffee House blog. For David

Cameron, the build-up for the conference has been relatively

cheerful. The economy is recovering, the promise of a referendum means

that his party is broadly at peace over Europe. The Prime Minister is,

by definition, can never relax. The threat from UKIP continues. Tory

grumbling about the coalition and labour's Ed Miliband touching a

chord on energy prices last week. The party loyalists to want to know

that when it comes to the next election, David Cameron is in it to

win it, at a clear Tory, with a clear majority. David Cameron is

here this morning and we will be talking about Europe, immigration,

welfare and more. Perhaps what he needs is a plotting Blackadder or a

smoothly wise Jeeves. Hugh Laurie knows about both characters. As

Doctor house he became the highest paid actor in the world. Now he is

reinventing himself as a soul singer and musician. I would like to say he

is rubbish, but actually he is rather good. We will be hearing from

him later on. We are playing no blues for the Tories, rather the

latest big thing from the West coast of the USA, sisters guitar band

HAIM. If you haven't heard of them yet, you will hear a lot more about

them in the year ahead. Let's get the news with Bryony Shaw.

The Conservatives, who begin their annual conference in Manchester

today, are trying to highlight the policies that mark them as different

from their rivals. The second part of the Help To Buy scheme, offering

government guarantees to mortgages, has been brought forward to the next

few weeks instead of next year as planned. It is the first of a number

of policy announcements expected at the conference.

We will get things on the economy, almost certainly we will get a big

announcement on welfare. There is a sign that there was a sense of that

in the papers the other day, perhaps introducing a workfare style scheme

for those that are long-term unemployed. I think the mood in the

party is relatively chipper, compared to last year. There is no

question over David Cameron's leadership, the excitement over

Boris Johnson has faded a bit. There is concern about UKIP and I think

that is one of the questions that will be asked this week, what is the

party going to do between now and the election to try to win back

disaffected Tory voters who may be flirting with or have defected to

UKIP. One of England's's most senior

police officers has called for class A drugs such as heroin and cocaine

to be decriminalised and says that drug addicts should be treated and

cared for, rather than prosecuted. In a Sunday newspaper, the Chief

Constable of Durham Police said criminals have made liens of pounds

from supplying drugs. Controls or criminalisation? The issue of how to

deal with class A drugs has long been a subject for debate. Mike

Barton has joined a growing list of campaigners, politicians and police

officers calling for an end to the outright ban. Speaking in the

Observer, the Chief Constable of Durham Police compere is the UK war

on drugs with the US alcohol prohibition of the 1920s. Both, he

says, have given rise to organised crime and glamorised the role of

gangsters. He suggests that addicts should be able to access substances

like heroin on the NHS, instead of buying it illegally and putting

billions into the hands of criminals. He claims providing

controlled environments to take the drug would prevent the spread of

hepatitis C and AIDS amongst needle users. His comments echo those made

in the past by a number of senior British police officers and business

leaders, such as Sir Richard Branson. Last year, a report by a

group of MPs put forward the idea of a Royal commission to consider

decriminalising drugs. But it was rejected by David Cameron, who said

that drug use was coming down in Britain and the current policy was

working. The Foreign Office has said it

cannot rule out the possibility of further British casualties following

the siege at Westgate shopping centre in Nairobi. A sixth British

National has been identified amongst those killed in last week's attack.

Kenya's Red Cross says that while 72 are known to have died, 61 are still

missing. Eight Kenyan cleric, described as a leading recruiter for

Al-Shabab, has said the attack was justified in an attempt to remove

Kenyan troops from Somalia. He was speaking to BBC's And around the

programme, which you can see tomorrow night.

Leading Italian politicians are beginning urgent things to limit the

crisis caused by the resignation of all five Cabinet ministers from

Silvio Bill Scully's party. The coalition, which brought together

the right and the left after an inconclusive election, has succeeded

in tackling tweet convincing the market that it can tackle the

problems. But Silvio Berlusconi's party relations seem to have broken

down. Two men have been charged with murdering a mother and her teenage

children at a fire in their house in Leicester. The men, aged 19 and 21,

will appear before magistrates tomorrow. Seven people, including a

16-year-old, have been charged in connection with the blaze earlier

this month. That is all from me. I will be back with the headlines just

before ten o'clock. Now, the papers. If you are

interested in the Conservative Party conference, the best front page is

the Sunday Telegraph, for you. Perhaps unsurprisingly, sort of an

in-house paper. They have a story about foreign beggars and an

interesting interview with somebody who wrote a book about the premise,

saying he regrets the gay marriage law row and talking about his new

mortgage scheme for struggling families. The Sunday Times has gone

Bridget Jones mad, the devastating news is that Darcy is dead when the

new book comes out. They have also gone with the cheap loans story as

their splash. The Independent on Sunday, a slightly different take.

They say that Tory donors are deserting the party to UKIP. That

they have already spent £500,000 on the Eurosceptic party. The Observer

has a story that will be causing a lot of comments today. One of the

top UK police chiefs says it is time to end the war on drugs, by which he

means decriminalising drugs to remove gang profits. There are many

other stories, which I will not go into right now, because there is too

other stories, which I will not go much to talk about with Phil Collins

and Isabel Hardman. It is interesting, the left of centre

papers have gone on last week and they are looking back at Ed Miliband

because they have not been given much by David Cameron. It's an

interesting contrast between The Telegraph and The Sun. The Telegraph

gives us Cameron, and The Sun gives us Osborne. Not George Osborne, Ozzy

Osbourne. The Telegraph, which is one I am going to pick up, the

auction is on now for the general election. This is

auction is on now for the general week's price freeze from Ed

Miliband, which gets quite a good press in the Sunday papers. There is

a whole load of things that the Tories are going to set out. There

is a bit of knocking copy about labour, but there is lots about

hard-working families. The bone Idol vote is being totally forgotten.

What about those of us who are bone Idol? Those that do just enough, we

are not featuring. This is not our conference we? The Daily Mail, they

don't start talking about the conference until page six, talking

about Ed Miliband being the new Neil Kinnock. They have a nice picture of

them together on the next page. The Prime Minister has only decided

everything is going to be fine, Ed Miliband is a complete joke, he is

saying that at the start of his conference. He is knocking the

energy bill price cap that he announced last week. But he's also

making a big plea for Help To Buy, not a well liked policy amongst

those that understand planning laws. The Sunday Times has a poll saying

that 68% of people are in favour of The Sunday Times has a poll saying

the price freeze? Yes, some very good analysis showing why being

you'll Kinnock might be enough. It wasn't enough to win 35% of the vote

when you'll Kinnock was Neal Kinnock. He is still Neil Kinnock.

He is setting up the big question for this conference, what do they do

about UKIP? Nigel Farage was the ghost that the Labour Party

conference last week, he might deliver Labour victory. This great

cartoon with Nigel Farage, standing in the background of a party, and

David Cameron and George Osborne saying, what is he doing here? He

will be the unmentioned ghost at the conference. He had a rotten

conference on self, thanks to Godfrey Bloom. I don't think that

will change what people think about UKIP. You can have as many strange

people talking about as many strange things, but I don't think they care

about those words. David Cameron might regard them as closet

racists, fruitcakes and nutters... I think you will find there is quite a

lot on immigration, cracking down on things that don't really happen,

like benefits tourism. The best sorts of crackdowns, because they

are instantly successful. There are some huge foreign stories. If you

are interested in what happened in Kenya, what is the best newspaper?

Outside in the world, history is unfolding. The Observer is the place

to go to. Mark Doyle has been with African forces in southern Somalia,

trying to fight back against Al-Shabab, the Al-Qaeda affiliate.

It is a fascinating piece of reporting. It makes one important

claim, he says that, far from being a splinter group in its demise,

actually Al-Shabab is quite strong. The militia is tough and resilient.

They are a more potent foe than most The militia is tough and resilient.

of the coverage has so far said. A great piece of reporting, but also

very depressing. Worrying. One of the big issues in Manchester is

HS2, the high-speed rail line. You picked a story about that as well?

This is the front page of the Observer, which has an interview

with the Transport Secretary, who says that losing HS2 would be a

complete disaster. Last week, the late party conference, Ed Balls

started dropping hints that Labour might drop its support. And there

are so many Tory backbenchers against it as well? Many of them are

going to come together in a campaign to try to get the PM to drop it. The

Tories think by branding in the north- south line, which isn't quite

accurate because it stars in the south and goes towards the north,

they think it will help. The economic benefits will come when it

links together the cities in the north, although that is a long time

in the future. But that's a better analysis than trying to get people

living in the Chilterns to think it is a good idea. It's looking quite

bad for HS2, I have to say. David Cameron has to come out and say he

strongly supported and will not flinch? I think he does. If you

say, this is my claim on the future, this is the kind of thing that a

go-ahead country is to have, it is that sort of thing. You have chosen

something about the violence against women in television. I think they

are talking about some of our favourite dark winter night Nordic

films? The Bridge? San Cleves, who has written the Vera Stanhope

novels, she has said that the Scandinavian ones have got too much

gratuitous violence, mostly against women. It's the classic problem.

Steve Larsen's whole point is about violence against women. In trying to

make that point, he depicts violence against women. She says that he has

gone too far. That there is just gratuitous violence against women.

We have seen the same thing in British produced shows. The Fall got

a lot of criticism, very well produced, but a lot of people found

it too much in the way it portrayed attacks on women. Then there is Top

Of The Lake, which was pretty grim as well. It is always worse when

songs or TV shows normalise attitudes like this. These shows are

trying to raise awareness. There are songs like Blurred Lines, which I

think is more insidious. Let's do a bit about Iran. I suspect that is

the single biggest and most important political story in the

world at the moment, isn't it? Following the phone call between

President Obama and President Rouhani, he has returned to Teheran

to be applauded by supporters, but pelted with shoes and eggs. Shoe

pelting is a big thing over there. Sunni can you imagine what would

have happened if he had met Obama? They think Iran is trying to

increase the nuclear capacity. There is a risk that the US might be seen

as taking a soft line because it is trying to open up talk is.

David Moyes, the new manager of Manchester United, has had a poor

time. It shows the pace that we pile pressure upon managers. Only

five days ago was Arsene Wenger get in crisis and now they are top of

the league. David Moyes has followed Alex Ferguson with his

success. They lost to West Brom. They are having a very bad start to

the season and it is very much to be commended. Isabel, a final story

from you. It is the return of Bridget Jones. Mark D'Arcy is dead.

That is dreadful if you have read the books. Another brick is coming

out. Bridget Jones is now a single mother. Daniel Cleaver is now the

godfather to her children. I read this when I was a teenager. I

thought, I hope life is not like this when you become an adult. If

my life is going bad, at least it is not as bad as Bridget Jones. Now

that Mr Darcy has gone, she needs Mr Collins. Thank you for that.

Well, Manchester wins the prize for the sunniest conference location so

far. Now for the weather. Plenty of sunshine around the

British Isles. I have thrown in some leaves for good measure. There

will be a lot of winter today. There are exceptions to the rule.

It is fairly dank across the northern isles and the Western

Isles. The seven counties Again will see the chance of one or two

showers. Top temperature around about 20, 21 Celsius. Overnight,

the breeze was still be there and it will not be a chilly night.

The general theme of the week - the first half of the week - high

pressure to the north-east and low pressure from the North Atlantic.

We may see some showery bursts of rain. In northern and eastern parts,

they will stay drier for that bit longer but you will have the breeze

to contend with. The further west you are, but warmer you will be.

Having conquered US television as its most bankable and most enduring

lead, Hugh Laurie has left behind the success of the hit series,

House, and is back on the road playing his beloved blues.

His passion for the music is such that acting will take second place

for a while. His last album sold over a million. He is about to play

Nashville and he is presenting a Radio 2 series on his musical

odyssey. When he came into the studio recently, he told me why

this album, Didn't It Rain is more loved-up than the last one. It is

more romantic. We have more of a female sound to it. We had two

wonderful singers, who lend a sort of glamour and romance to the thing.

That was perhaps absence from the first record. -- absent. Blues is

populated for much of the time by men hunched over guitars.

I think of it as having originated really with women. The very early

blues stars. The that makes it worse for you. You are not an

elderly black man from Mississippi, nor are you an elderly black woman.

I tick neither of those boxes. Do fill awkward about being a well-off,

successful, White, an Englishman singing the blues? Some of those

categories apply but not all. I do not think that any kind of music is

off-limits to anyone. I do not think particularly that this kind

of music is. There is something slightly condescending in a way in

the idea that this music only has value if it is performed by people

who have been through it. We have no exception to a Chinese pianist

playing Rachmaninov and we do not mind a Nigerian singing Verdi

because that is high culture. The only value this has is, I do not

agree with that. It is America's great gift to the world and we

would be foolish not to drink deeply.

You love it so much that you gave up a possible television role for a

while because you're out touring with this record. Are you on the

edge of moving from being an actor to a musician? I may be beyond the

edge. I made beat in the position of the Roadrunner cartoon, that I

have gone off the cliff and and during that. We might be talking

about a series of new albums rather than... I like to think in batches

of six. I do not act on that. There were 167 episodes of House. I wrote

a novel once. It was a specific genre of a novel and I thought,

this will mean more when there are six of them. There is at only one.

I think in batches of six. You say music may be a future but you are

doing another film called Tomorrowland. It is science fiction,

dystopian. How do you know that much? I know you are the baddie as

well. It is George Clooney and myself. One is the hero. I am the

baddie, yes. Meanwhile, the tour goes on. I never in my whole life

thought I would be catching this sentence - my next show it is in

Nashville. What a thing to say! It is so exciting. Do you have a

different species of nerves going on to play a live concert? How do

you know that? There is something much more exposing, I suppose,

something much more vulnerable about music and the performance of

music. My theory is that people become actors because they want to

have masks and hide behind other identities. Music is generally

about taking masks off and identities. Music is generally

revealing more of yourself than one does in conversation. It is a very

intimate and very vulnerable position to being. They do not hate

the mask, they hate you. I am conscious of the fact I cannot play

the piano as well as Jools Holland. I am going to try to overhaul him,

obviously. I am not Daniel Day- Lewis as an actor. Perhaps I can

played the piano better than Daniel Day Lewis and act better than Jools

Holland. For that reason, it is all the more thrilling. You are doing

yet more blues on Radio 2. I have been allowed the opportunity to

tell my story, as it were. The music I love and the music that has

influenced itself and has developed over the last 100 or so years.

Sometimes we take a single song and followed its development. PG to DJ,

as it were. Nicely done. And you can hear more from Hugh Laurie on

Mondays at 10pm for the next five weeks on BBC Radio 2. All through

his premiership, David Cameron has had the resurgent conservatism of

UKIP on one hand and Lib Dems on the other. Does he feel master in

his own house and does he yearn to shrug off the chains of Coalition?

Well, he's with me now. Good morning. Can I start by asking you

about something house, which is the terrible Al-Shabab incident in

Nairobi? What have you been told about the possibility of similar

attacks on British shopping centres? We had been looking at

attacks on British shopping this for a long time. The appalling

attack that happened in Mumbai in India. I chaired a whole series of

meetings a few years ago but again this week to check we have

everything in place to prepare for those sorts of attacks. We do not

have intelligence that something is about to happen but it pays to be

very, very prepared - very cautious, and to make sure we have everything

in place recoup to deal with awful events like this. Are you concerned

that so Malian -- so Malian based terrorists would come into this

country? We are concerned and follow that. What it shows is we

have to keep going against Islamist extremism. Whether that is people

home-grown in our own country, whether that is extremism that is

fermenting on the Horn of Africa, West Africa or in Afghanistan and

Pakistan. It is the whole argument about why we need well-funded

intelligence services come out why the need to share intelligence with

others and why we have to be permanently vigilant. I take these

as far as abilities incredibly vigilantly. I make sure of that

everything is prepared. We do not have intelligence about anything

imminent. When the attack happened in Mumbai and the attack in Kenya,

any responsible government would look to see how they would cope

with something like that. Can I move to the opposite extreme of the

Islamist issue? There has been a huge amount of controversy about

the fall Vale, should it be allowed in courts, in schools, should it be

banned anywhere? I have a simple view. We are a free country and

people should be able to wear whatever close they like in public

or in private. We should support institutions which need to put in

place rules so the institutions can work properly. For instance, in a

school, if they want a particular dress

A school put in place a uniform policy. It respected those people

to break it and go even further. I backed the school. It had a uniform

policy. The Government should back institutions that want a sensible

policy. The judge thought there should be national guidelines on

what happens in court. I am happy to look at that. In court,

needs to be able to look at someone space. I have sat on a jury. When

someone is coming into the country, an immigration officer needs to see

someone's face. In a school, it is difficult to teach and as you can

look at people's in the eye. Older people want to see the face of the

person... It is a free country. A free country should have freed...

If the Government needs to do more to back up institutions, I'll be

happy to do that. the average family has lost about

£5,000 per year since the coalition started. 63% of people back Ed

Miliband on energy prices. What are you going to do to counter that? We

need to make the big argument on living standards. The only way to

increase living standards is to keep the recovery going, to keep creating

jobs, to keep cutting the deficit, which keeps mortgage rates low, and

keep on cutting peoples taxes. That is the way you give people more of

their own money, into their own is the way you give people more of

pockets, to spend as they choose. Under this government we have cut

taxes by £700, because we have lifted the tax threshold. But, of

course, that is not enough. You have to look at what else you can do.

British Gas are raising prices 10%, the other utilities the same thing,

and you are not doing anything about that? I don't want low prices for 20

months, I want them for 20 years. We need to go to where why these prices

are going up in the first place. We have to make sure that companies

behave properly and put people on the lowest tariff. Regulation has

largely failed. Even the Daily Telegraph says there is a cosy

cartel of energy companies that needs to be broken up? There are six

energy companies competing, better than what we had in the past. But do

we wanted to be more? Absolutely. I don't say that all revelation is

failing, but is this enough? No. -- regulation. The idea is for

regulatory changes? We need to look at the markets and make sure that it

is working for hard-working people. We have frozen the council tax, year

after year. We have taken away Labour's land increases in petrol

duty. You freeze those things, what is terrible about freezing energy

prices? The problem is that it unravelled within about 12 hours,

when the next day he said he might not be able to keep his promise. You

need to look at the things that are causing the energy prices to rise,

rather than dealing with the symptoms. You don't regard this as a

terrible throwback to 1970s socialism? If you take the approach

as a whole, it is anti-business, anti-enterprise, it is saying to

companies investing in Britain, I am going to put up taxes, take your job

somewhere else. That is the wrong approach. You said it was nuts?

Well, I often use phrases... But it is nuts. Jaguar Land Rover is now

making cars and putting -- selling them all over the world. He wants to

put their taxes up. You think the opposition is nuts? I don't want to

get into the argument of the mental health of it. I am not complacent

about the recovery. We have a huge deficit to play down. The debt

crisis is not over and it is linked to the problems in standard of

living. We have to build the recovery, make sure it delivers for

hard-working people. That is why we want to help people get that first

apprenticeship, first job, first home, start the first business. But

we need to get businesses to invest. We need to be

pro-enterprise, pro-business. Taxing business is going to make sure the

recovery is weaker and that is wrong. Ed Miliband came up with a

couple of concrete proposals to help people on lower incomes. Don't you

have to do more than you have done so far too much that? We always need

to do more. I recognise that so far, as the economy has started to

recover, it is still difficult for people to make ends meet. They see

that the wages are relatively fixed. And yet prices are going up. That is

why cutting peoples taxes is so important. That is why lifting

people out of the first £10,000 of income tax is so vital. That is why

freezing council tax matters. Let's not forget the issue about mortgage

rates. If a Labour government came in and said it was OK to borrow

more, spend more and tax more and the deficit goes up, interest rates

go up, mortgage rates go up, that would wipe out any gain of anything

that has done on any other price because mortgages are such a big

part of family budgets. That is why so many people are worried, in the

south-east, about a housing bubble starting to create inflationary

pressures. I know George Osborne has turned to the Bank of England for

advice. You are bringing forward your Help To Buy scheme. There is

already a housing bubble, 97% help for individual families is a lot of

money. Let's start with the state of the housing market. We asked the

Bank of England for their assessment of the housing market and they said,

expressly, there is not a bubble. of the housing market and they said,

The housing market is recovering, but from a low base. If you look at

prices outside London and the south-east, they are only going up

by 0.8%. Talk of a housing bubble to people in Manchester and Salford and

there were literally laugh in your face. The problem we are trying to

deal with is this. Today, the average family cannot afford the

average house. That is not a problem of the housing market, it is a

problem in our banks and mortgage markets. And the supply, perhaps? I

will come onto the supply. Right now, you cannot get a 95% mortgage.

That means a typical family, with two people earning £25,000, they are

being asked, to buy an average house, to find a £40,000 deposit.

They can afford the mortgage payments, but they can't get the

mortgage, they cannot either flat or house. As Prime Minister, I am not

going to stand back while people's aspirations to get on the housing

ladder, own their own home, are being trashed. That is why we need

to act. That is why it is good news that we are bringing forward the

Help To Buy scheme. I can tell you that NatWest, RBS, Halifax, are

going to be putting forward these products. It is not something

totally new in our economy. Most of our lifetimes and has been possible

to buy a flat in a 10% deposit. It will only be people with a rich

payments that can get on the housing ladder, if we don't do this. That is

not the kind of country I want to live in. You have no worry about

inflationary effects? The Bank of England advised that there is no

housing bubble. We have given them the tools, for the first time in

history, to report on these things, stop doubles from occurring. They

can report back and comment on it. If they were involved in its design.

We can put our trust in the Bank of England, particularly now we have

given them everything they need to intervene if necessary. You have

been talking about fairness, in effect. Both of the other parties

are now in favour of a mansion tax on properties above £2 million. What

is your view and can you be clear about what you do in government? I

don't think this is a good idea. I want to live in a country where

people work hard, they save, put money into their home, and I think

it is right that people pay council tax, it is right people pay stamp

duty and we will put that up. It's right people pay a decent top rate

of tax, 45p in the pound in this country. But to go after somebody's

house every year, with a wealth tax, I don't think that is fair. It is

you that stopped us last time? I think wealth taxes have been tried

in a lot of European countries and a think wealth taxes have been tried

lot of them are repealing them because they are not good for

lot of them are repealing them investment and enterprise.

Post-election, no mansion tax if you are Prime Minister? That is correct.

Stamp duty, yes. Council tax, yes. I think wealth taxes not sensible for

a country that wants to attract wealth creation, wants to reward

wealth creation and people that work hard and do the right thing. We

asked if any of the net like's promises were real, come the next

election, and in a coalition government you have to negotiate. I

can ask you the same question, the polling suggests that if you come

back to government it will possibly be in a coalition. We want to know

how much you say will be negotiated away with the Liberal Democrats.

Nick Clegg said he did stop you doing a lot of things in this

government, is that right? We have 20 months to go before the election.

I am convinced, not for my benefit but for the country's benefit, we

need a strong governor Met that is properly accountable, so you see

what goes in the manifesto either gets put in place or the Government

asked to explain why it hasn't. I want a Conservative only government

and I think that is right want a Conservative only government

country. That is what I am going to go all-out for. I'm not going to

speculate about anything else, because it is not what I want, not

what I am planning and not what the country needs. Is it true that

before the last election, you went through the constituencies one by

one, concluded there was no possibility for an overall

majority, and started to plan for a coalition? That is not how I

remember it. I worked flat out before the election. I always

thought was a tall order to do it in one go. We needed 130 seats, and we

got about 100. We fell short. I was always hoping we could make it. When

you are begin such a massive mountain to climb, you always know

it will be tough. Is that story is false the idea that you have gone

through, yourself, William Hague and George Osborne, went through the

list... I certainly did not do that. I spent my entire time trying to win

that election. I am sorry I didn't make it. I think we have the best

result for the Conservatives in terms of gaining seats since 1931,

but it was not enough. The right thing to do was to be responsible,

recognise that the country was in crisis, a coalition was better than

a minority government. You came very close. You're very big offer, as you

said, was because Oliver Letwin had gone through the manifesto, line by

line, trying to work out what could be a deal or a deal-breaker. If you

asked people who were with me in that hotel room in central London, I

think they were surprised by how rapidly I did react. That is because

I slept on it, for about an hour, and I thought, what does the country

need right now? It needs a stable, good government. I knew we could not

do that in a minority Government. I didn't know at this stage that it

would work. You had a good idea, there had been some preplanning? If

you did the same operation now, you looked at the constituencies that

are going to be battle ground constituencies, he would not

conclude you could win a majority at the next election? I think the next

election is wide open to win. 36 battle ground constituencies, where

the UKIP vote will let Labour in? We have a huge battle. We have to

persuade people that have gone to UKIP that they should come back

because we are delivering for UKIP that they should come back

hard-working people. The economy is recovering and we are on the right

track. We have to persuade Labour voters that they used to be a home

in labour for people that were pro-enterprise but wanted good

public services. It is now an anti-enterprise party. Come to the

Conservatives. People that usually vote Liberal, that you don't need

that in order to have a compassionate country. I am in this

to win it. I believe it can be done, I am passionate about running a

Conservative only Government. Not for my own benefit, but because I

think we need to go further and faster on the things that really

matter, making a co-enterprise recovery, delivering on promises

like cutting immigration, sorting out the welfare system, a revolution

in our schools to give every young person a chance to get on. I think

people talking about UKIP, and you have not mentioned Europe, your good

friend Graham Brady wants to see the manifesto on which you are to a

referendum and on which you can negotiate with European partners,

before the European elections next year. Is he going to get that? There

is more I can say. At this election you have been talking about, we will

have a clear message. If you want a referendum, and in or out

referendum, there is only one way to get it. That is to put me back in

Number 10 Downing Street to deliver on my promise. A vote for any other

party, including UKIP, will not deliver that. A lot of people that

want that referendum wanted to leave Europe. That will be there choice.

My goal is to renegotiate our relationship with Europe. How

radically? Very radically. People have said it is not possible, they

said you cannot cut the budget, I cut it, they said you can't veto a

treaty, I did. They said we would never get out of the bailouts. What

does radical mean? Does it mean ending the free movement of people

through the EU? I am not going to go through, area by area. I will give

you an example. One is changing the European Union as a whole. It has

become too anti-competitive, anti-enterprise, to bureaucratic. It

also means changing Britain's relationship. The phrase, seeking an

ever closer union, it is not what the British people want and it is

not what I want. Other people can sign up to a closer union, other

countries, but it should not be in a sign up to a closer union, other

closer union. That would mean a full treaty renegotiation? Yes, I am

convinced one has to happen. People said, there will not be any treaty

renegotiations, I think we have had three. A rewriting of our

relationship with the rest of the EU? Yes. Can I give you another

example, the European Court. Christopher Grayling said he wants

to see Britain's Supreme Court genuinely supreme, wants to get rid

of the Human Rights Act. That involves leaving the European human

rights system. We can scrap the human rights act

without altering the Convention on Human Rights. Do you agree we

should leave the convention? We should look at the outcome we want.

I am less interested in which conventional signed up to. I want

to know, can we keep our country safe? Are able to checkout of our

country people who have no right to be here, who threaten our country.

-- chuck out. We need to put into our manifesto whatever measures

need to be taken so we can get the effect we want - to have a greater

ability to keep people safe. Aren't you interested in the

constitutional position? There are you interested in the

a range of options, as I have suggested in the past. You can

write a British Bill of Rights, said that when cases go to the

European Court of Human Rights, you have proper consideration. That is

one possibility. We have some time to get it right before the

manifesto. People should be in no doubt that in a Conservative only

government led by Mick there will be the ability to run out of this

country people who threaten us and our way of life. -- throw out.

country people who threaten us and Let's go through the process at

work out what is necessary to Let's go through the process at

deliver the effects that we want. Let's go through the process at

That would require a majority Conservative govern because the

Liberal Democrats can stop you doing it otherwise. -- government.

We have achieved a radical reform of the welfare system and the

deficit reduction programme which has got us back on track. We will

be remembering the record of Margaret Thatcher this week. She

would look at school reforms. We have new schools in the state

sector providing a great education. We have done great things. It is a

radical government but there is more we could do. The Government of

Margaret Thatcher was in favour of workfare. They did not manage to

legislate on it. This is something we need to look at a webcam had to

make sure that all parts of our welfare system, there is no more

something for nothing. -- and work out how to make sure. We have

capped welfare and cat housing benefit. There were crazy rules.

Sometimes people could get £80,000 for one house in parts of London.

In the overall balance of cracking down on public spending and dealing

with the deficit, what about tax rises and spending cuts,

particularly on welfare? There is a big squeeze coming on welfare and

that is the Tories being unfair to people at the bottom. I do not

accept that. The richest pay 10 people at the bottom. I do not

times more than the poorest. That is Warri perturb things like stamp

duty. -- we are doing things. We have to say to people, we are not

going to go on putting up taxes. have to say to people, we are not

The less of the deficit reduction programme, we can do that by

continuing to bear down on spending. I want to see ask going on helping

low-paid people to keep more of I want to see ask going on helping

their own money to spend as they choose. 25 million people have a

tax cut because of the lifting of the personal allowance. On gay

marriage, do you regret doing that and the fury that happened? I do

not. Britain is more fair and equal and the fury that happened? I do

as a country in doing that. How do you know what was going to happen

and the size of the row, you would not have done it? -- had to you

known. I did not anticipate quite the for Rory. It has been difficult

for some people to take on. I am not sure at the beginning we got

across to people this was about marriages that could take place in

registry offices. It was not about churches, synagogues and mosques.

The principle of it. I am passionate about marriage. It is a

great institution. It should be available to people who are Ardgay

as well as those of us who are not. You are in favour of High Speed Two.

Even the boss said it could cost more than £50 billion. There is a

cut off point. £42.6 billion Dom macro this is the Government that

cut off point. £42.6 billion Dom delivered the Olympics on time and

on budget. -- £42.6 billion... HS two is going to happen? There are

two points I want to get across. The West Coast Main Line is full.

Do we build an old-style, Victorian one or do we build a high-speed

line? People all over the country will worry that it will take up too

much money. In the next Parliament we will spend three times as much

on other transport projects as we dwell on this. It is not taking up

an unfair share of the Budget. This time last year the conference was

dominated by plebgate and the Andrew Mitchell incident. Ice did

by him after these allegations took place. -- I stood by him. He stayed

in the Cabinet but it did not work out. He was cut adrift a bit. These

are very difficult issues to handle. When allegations are made and all

the rest of it. There are always lessons to learn about how to

handle them better. Right now there is a police investigation going on.

These things should not go on and on and on. It is under way and it

is not right for me to interfere. We have to await the outcome. Can

he come back into the Cabinet? He is very talented and I am very

sorry about all the things that have taken place. We have to let

the investigation take place and then we can take it from there. Now

over to Bryony for the news headlines. David Cameron has told

this programme that he will not allow the introduction of a mansion

tax if he is Prime Minister again after the next general election.

Both the Labour and Liberal Democrat leaders are in favour of

the move. He also defended his decision to bring forward the next

phase of the help to buy scheme, which offers government guarantees

for mortgages. He said he did not want to see people's aspirations to

get onto the housing ladder being trashed. Reports from Kennea

suggest intelligence warnings about Al-Shabab militants may have been

ignored by authorities. Members of the parliamentary committee

suggested they would explore the claims. A 6th British National has

been identified amongst those killed. 72 people are known to have

died and 61 people are still missing. The Foreign Office has

said it cannot rule out the possibility of further British

casualties. That's all from me for now. The next news on BBC1 is at

1pm. Back to Andrew and guests in a moment. But first, a look at what's

coming up after this show. The teachers' union says disruption in

classrooms is growing and corrosive. Are we too soft on children

behaving badly. Should pope John Are we too soft on children

Paul II be made a saint? Join me at 10am. Thank you. Well the Prime

Minister is still with me and we've been joined again by our paper

reviewers, Isabel Hardman and Phil Collins. And we also have Este Haim,

from the band of that name. You and your two sisters, you richly had

your father and mother in the band as well. We were like the Von Trapp

family of the millennium, if you will. How would you describe your

music? I think our music is just fun. Be like to have a good time.

We will have a good time with the very shortly. Among the areas we

did not get around to was the TV debate one. In Scotland, they just

saying you are afraid of facing up with Alex Salmond. Here, a lot of

people wonder whether you would stop Nigel Farage being part of the

leaders' debates. I want them to take place. I thought they took up

to match in the campaign and perhaps they could start earlier.

Alex Salmond would like to debate the SMP against the Tory Party was

Scotland against England. What it should be is Alistair Darling and

Alex Salmond, but he wants to change the question. I saw that one

coming. The funny thing is you will be standing next to Nick Clegg, who

will be working with for five years. be standing next to Nick Clegg, who

As you approach the next election, you must have fleetingly discussed

how your bread to lines might add up or not. -- red of lines. I tell

him my aim is to put him out of a job and he understands that. That

him my aim is to put him out of a works for Ed Miliband as well. It

has been very peculiar. Do any of us think that Nigel Farage will be

part of it? It should be about people who have a prospect of

becoming Prime Minister. You think that Nigel Farage were not be our

next Prime Minister? I do not think so. In the last election, the

debates happen because I said, I will sign up for anything, I will

go for it. You need that attitude. My only regret was, if you are

leading a political party, the election campaign is when you want

to get around the country and have arguments, debates and interviews.

The whole election it was the run- up to the debate, the debate and

the analysis of the debate. Do you think that Ed Miliband is a bit

more formidable than you thought? I never underrate my opponents. I've

faced Tony Blair, I've faced Gordon Brown, Harriet Harman briefly and

now Ed Miliband. I have faced Kennedy, Campbell, Vince Cable and

Nick Clegg. You never underestimate anyone in politics. You'd never are

complacent. It is a tough battle turning the country around. It

keeps us on our toes and makes us work harder. Competition is a good

thing. That's all we have time for this morning. Thanks to the Prime

Minister, and all my guests. Manchester is not the end of the

road for the conferences. We have the SNP in Perth next month. We'll

be back at the usual time next Sunday, and back on home turf, in

our studio in London. I'll be looking back over the Conference

season, talking to UKIP's leader Nigel Farage, author Robert Harris,

and we'll hear from the actors Jim Broadbent and Lindsay Duncan too,

about middle-aged love. Until then, a very good morning. And we leave

you with Haim, and their song, The Wire.

# You know I'm bad at communication. # It is hardest thing for me to do.

# And they say it is the most important part.

# That relationships go through. # And I gave it all away just, so I

could say that well. # I know, I know, I know, I know.

# That you're gonna be OK anyway. # You know there's no rhyme or

reason for the way you turned out to be.

# I didn't go and try to change my mind, not intentionally.

# I know it's hard to hear me say it, but I can't bear to stay

# And I just know, I know, I know, I know.

# That you're gonna be OK anyway. # Always keep your heart locked

tight. # Don't let your mind retire.

# But I just couldn't take it. # I tried hard not to fake it.

# But I fumbled it when it came down to the wire.

# It felt right. # It felt right.

# But I fumbled it when it came down to the wire.

# It felt right. # It felt right.

# But I fumbled it when it came down to the wire.

# Does your imagination make you what you want it to be.

# Because I'm sorry now for what I did.

# But it came naturally. # And I gave it all away just so I

could say. # That I know, I know, I know, I

know, # That you're gonna be OK anyway.

# Well, I try to keep myself together.

# After all the opportunities. # Try to stay true to you and try

to do. # What you wanted from me.

# And I gave it all away just to hear you say.

# That, well, I know, I know, I know, I know.

# That you're gonna be OK anyway. # Always keep your heart locked

tight. # Don't let your mind retire.

# But I just couldn't take it. # I tried hard not to fake it.

# But I fumbled it when it came down to the wire.

# It felt right, it felt right. # But I fumbled it when it came

down to the wire.