Browse content similar to 22/06/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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After a week which has been pretty tough for the Labour leader | :00:38. | :00:40. | |
Ed Miliband, at last, an Opposition policy which seems genuinely popular | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
Under Labour, every adult in the UK would get a free owl. | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
The more you think about it, the more sense it makes. | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
There has been a scandalous suggestion that the owls for all | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
policy is a hoax, a practical joke, caused by an internet hacker. | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
I, for one, don't believe it - do you? | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
Reviewing the papers with me today, my own two wise owls, | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
Isabel Hardman, assistant editor of the Spectator and the BBC Security | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
If there's one thing President Obama and David Cameron have decided | :01:09. | :01:15. | |
We may be days away from the fall of Baghdad and though nobody wants | :01:16. | :01:24. | |
to be sucked in to a bloody civil war, this is the biggest potential | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
threat facing the world at the moment and according to this | :01:29. | :01:30. | |
I'll be talking to the former Defence Secretary Liam Fox about it, | :01:31. | :01:37. | |
and I'm sure about David Cameron's problems in Europe too. | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
Ed Miliband once said it's a good idea not to read the | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
He's had an awful press over the past few days and weeks. | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
I'll be asking Chuka Umunna, the Shadow Business Secretary, | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
and one of Mr Miliband's earliest and most fervent supporters. | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
We'll hear some forthright views on Europe, Russia, | :02:01. | :02:02. | |
the Ukraine and how we should treat Polish migrants here, from Poland's | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
Talking of forthright, the redoubtable Baroness Trumpington | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
explains how she got away with straight-talking to Mrs Thatcher. | :02:13. | :02:20. | |
I didn't give a dam. If I decided I had to be true to myself, and if it | :02:21. | :02:35. | |
wasn't like, too bad. -- wasn't liked. | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
And finally, the violinist Nicola Benedetti - | :02:42. | :02:43. | |
going back to her Scottish musical roots - performs for us live. | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
But first, the news, from Naga Munchetty. | :02:47. | :02:48. | |
There's a warning that the conflicts in the Middle-East | :02:49. | :02:50. | |
will have long-term effects on security in Britain. | :02:51. | :02:52. | |
The head of Counter Terrorism at the Metropolitan Police says | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
young British Muslims who have fought in Syria may return and | :02:56. | :02:57. | |
It comes as the Sunni extremist group ISIS | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
Leading figures in Baghdad have warned that the country's army is | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
struggling to repel the attacks as Simon Clemison reports. | :03:07. | :03:13. | |
He is one Briton to travel out to Syria, but one among many. This man | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
ended up in a video where a group of men talk about going to fight in | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
Iraq in an apparent attempt to encourage other Western Muslims to | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
join a holy war. But he did not leave the UK alone. It's been | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
revealed that he went with two other men, also from Cardiff. The pair | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
returned home but were arrested on suspicion of receiving terrorist | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
training. They were later released without charge. Police believe about | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
500 British people have gone out to the two countries. The departing | :03:46. | :03:49. | |
head of counterterrorism at the Metropolitan Police has told the BBC | :03:50. | :03:52. | |
that they need to be alert to the possibility some might return to | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
commit acts of violence here. I am afraid that I believe that we will | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
be living with the consequences of Syria, from a terrorist point of | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
view, let alone the world geopolitical consequences, the many, | :04:06. | :04:12. | |
many years to come. -- for many years to come. None of the men are | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
Nvidia referred to bringing the fight home, but Downing Street says | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
there have been 65 arrests related to Syria in the last 18 months. In | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
Iraq itself, there have been a series of mass rallies, called for | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
by a Shi'ite cleric in a show of force against the insurgent group, | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
ISIS. But Sunni militants have seized a border crossing which could | :04:36. | :04:42. | |
help ISIS seize weapons and other equipment to Iraq. Another two towns | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
are said to have fallen, and there are serious concerns about the | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
ability of the army to resist the advance. | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
And earlier, the BBC's World Affairs Editor, John Simpson, | :04:52. | :04:53. | |
said he had been speaking to Western diplomats and senior members of the | :04:54. | :04:56. | |
Iraqi government who told him the situation in the country is bleak. | :04:57. | :05:04. | |
The Americans have been warning about ISIS for probably around 18 | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
months, and they saw the rise of the movement. But it's only in the last | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
two weeks, 14 days, that they have been using surveillance techniques | :05:16. | :05:22. | |
either from drones or satellites or planes or whatever to watch what is | :05:23. | :05:28. | |
happening with ISIS. It's quite extraordinary that it is such a | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
short space of time that they have been watching them. There are other | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
things that are really quite disturbing as well. The Iraqis have | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
been given hellfire missiles by the Americans, which they use planes to | :05:42. | :05:51. | |
fire, but the Hellfire missiles also ran out two weeks ago and the | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
Americans don't seem to be in any hurry to replace them. Not only | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
that, but all sorts of other important equipment which the | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
Americans have promised hasn't yet been delivered. Now that is partly | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
because the training takes a long time, but it is quite disturbing | :06:09. | :06:18. | |
that the Iraqis won't get sophisticated fighter jets September | :06:19. | :06:19. | |
at the earliest. David Cameron will call | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
for a vote among EU leaders on who should be the next leader | :06:23. | :06:24. | |
of the European Commission. The move has been described | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
as "unprecedented". It comes as nine left-wing leaders | :06:28. | :06:29. | |
from across the EU have agreed to back the former Prime Minister | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
of Luxembourg Jean-Claude Juncker. is too much of a Brussels insider to | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
push through reform. Police in Essex say they cannot rule | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
out a possible link On Tuesday, Nahid Almanea was | :06:43. | :06:44. | |
found near a nature reserve with 16 stab wounds, while James Attfield | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
died after he was stabbed more than Extra patrols have been scheduled | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
in the area, while officers from seven different forces have | :06:53. | :07:00. | |
been drafted in to help. I'll be back with | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
the headlines just before 10:00am. Most newspaper editors have decided | :07:05. | :07:21. | |
that the threat of jihadist is coming back to the the main story. | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
MI6 are saying that 300 fighters from Syria are already back. The | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
Mail on Sunday talks about a schoolboy jihadist, before and after | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
pictures. Similar to the Sunday Telegraph. Two brilliant brothers | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
who left a British suburb for jihad. The Sunday Times has done in a | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
different direction, talking about business bosses attacking the Prime | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
Minister for his failure to curb EU measures that they say will threaten | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
competition in this country. And a Wimbledon picture, World Cup fading, | :07:53. | :07:56. | |
Wimbledon coming. I have just dropped Scotland on Sunday on the | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
floor, incompetently, and there is a story about yes campaign is getting | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
rid of the Queen. There will be a new constitution after the yes vote | :08:06. | :08:07. | |
and they think Scotland should become a republic. We will talk | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
about that and the other stories later with Isabel Hardman and Frank | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
Gardner. Frank, starting with you, and Iraq. You have chosen the | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
Observer newspaper. There is a big spread here, which has rebranded | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
Shia insurgents gaining the whip hand in Baghdad. These are the | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
people who are going to save Baghdad if ISIS, this big and powerful | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
insurgency, decides to take on the capital. The Iraqi army, frankly, is | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
not up to the job. They melted away in practically all of the places | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
where ISIS had been taking ground, but this is why everyone is worried | :08:47. | :08:49. | |
about it being a sectarian, Sunni versus Shia Muslim thing. These | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
people are much more motivated than the mainstream Iraqi army. A hard | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
question to answer, but is the Shia militia able to take on ISIS? Lots | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
of pictures of small kids holding guns bigger than they are. It all | :09:05. | :09:11. | |
depends where ISIS decided take them on. If they attack the big Shia | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
shrines in Samarra, Baghdad, these are holy sites. They are holy not | :09:18. | :09:24. | |
just do Iraqi shears, but to Iranians, Lebanese, Saudis who are | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
Shia Muslim. If they decide to take them on, the Shia militia will fight | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
until the death, and some of these people are fanatical. The cleric, | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
his people bought the British Army to a standstill in the south of | :09:42. | :09:44. | |
Iraq, and some would even say that they won. So they are pretty | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
hard-core. There is another Shia militia, the ones who kidnapped the | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
five British people, the bodyguard and Peter Moore, killing four out of | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
five of them. They are pretty fanatic. They are considered to be | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
heretics by, so if you put the forces together... It's like the | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
civil war in Europe at the time of the Reformation. Exactly. That is | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
the worry in the middle east. That this will balloon beyond Iraq and | :10:14. | :10:20. | |
Syria. You get Saudi Arabia coming in, and Iran on the Shia Muslim | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
side, and then the countries are toe to toe. To some extent that has | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
happened already in Syria where Saudi Arabia has ineffectually been | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
supporting the Sunni rebel groups. The Iranians have very effectively | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
used Hezbollah. The big question is, will this bounce back to the UK? | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
What are we going to do about it? Isabel, you have chosen a story | :10:43. | :10:46. | |
about the Cabinet agonising over it. This is the second page of the | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
Sunday Times with the Cabinet split over military action. It's a split | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
between the Hawks, George Osborne, Sajid Javid, Michael Gove, who think | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
we should be involved. Then the dogs like Kenneth Clarke and Andrew | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
Lansley -- the dogs. There is an unnamed hawkish minister who say | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
that if American planes take off they might use British sovereign | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
bases and that there is a British engineer or pilot or navigator as | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
part of the team even if they are not taking offensive action. The | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
point is we will be involved to a certain extent anyway, it is how | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
robust we are. It is busy Mobley British bases in Cyprus. -- | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
presumably British bases. Also Fairfield in Gloucestershire, that's | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
a potential staging base. The point here is, although the British | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
government have said they won't get involved militarily in Iraq, we are | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
fooling ourselves if we are going to be immune from a backlash. The West | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
is seen as being all part of one thing by the jihadist groups. We are | :11:48. | :11:53. | |
all dirty non-believers, and we are all going to get it, if we are seen | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
as taking sides as competence. The front page of the Sunday Telegraph | :12:00. | :12:06. | |
talking about the jihad, but how serious a threat is it now? Nothing | :12:07. | :12:10. | |
has changed on the ground in terms of the threat in the last two | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
weeks. What has changed is the psychological war, with the videos | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
coming out, the revelations of these people going out there, but this was | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
happening anyway. The numbers haven't changed. The numbers are | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
tiny percentage terms. There are over 1 billion Muslims in the world | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
and the vast majority, 99% and more, they want nothing more to do with | :12:32. | :12:38. | |
ISIS. They see it as alien and as much of a threat to them as anyone | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
else, but in absolute terms, because of the Iraq and Syria situation is | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
so dynamic, so violent and continuing, the number of the | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
jihadist groups, making their way out is growing. The Observer, no, | :12:54. | :13:02. | |
the Sunday Telegraph there. I wanted to point this out in the Sunday | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
Telegraph, and it shows the route that people take in the case of the | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
Cardiff people from the video, going out to Istanbul, cheap flight to | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
Istanbul, then making their way overland to the Syrian border. Most | :13:15. | :13:21. | |
people go via Turkey. It's incredibly easy. This is very easy | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
jihad. These very -- videos have a wide appeal. They put them on | :13:27. | :13:32. | |
Twitter, other social media. A lot of really bored and in adequate | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
people enticed by this type of thing, but that's the truth of | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
Western society will stop its a bit more serious than that. The sort of | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
people they get taken by this are often alienated from their families | :13:46. | :13:48. | |
who are very often quite pious Muslim families, but don't share the | :13:49. | :13:56. | |
younger generation's resentment of Western society, so they get drawn | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
into this and go down this pipeline. What also worries ministers is how | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
low down the agenda Iraq was in meetings until very recently, and | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
the fact that we seem to have lost track of one in four who have | :14:10. | :14:12. | |
travelled to Syria, so we have no idea if they are going to come back | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
and when. That is an alarming thought. I want to move on to the | :14:17. | :14:19. | |
other big political story, which is Ed Miliband's problems. Lots of | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
coverage in the press today, the most disobliging all is the on | :14:25. | :14:32. | |
Sunday. This is a fabulous piece called inside red Ed's head. This is | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
what you get if you pose with the Sun newspaper and then apologise. | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
I'm still not quite sure what he thought the benefit was. But | :14:41. | :14:42. | |
whatever Benedict he thought was in it -- benefit he thought was in it | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
was mishandled and he's infuriated the Sun newspaper. The infuriated | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
the people of Liverpool and now the editor of the Sun. It basically | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
lists all of the problems he has had recently. This is a sort of fun | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
attack on him, but it voices the attacks from inside the Shadow | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
Cabinet from inside his party on the leader as well, that he is weird and | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
does not have a strategy and is not human. A more substantial attack on | :15:09. | :15:13. | |
the Sunday Times. Not properly reflected by the headline. A more | :15:14. | :15:23. | |
nuanced piece. What I think is really interesting is that this | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
paints a picture of disorganisation and too many strategies, | :15:29. | :15:30. | |
paints a picture of disorganisation recipes trying to make one broth. | :15:31. | :15:38. | |
paints a picture of disorganisation next year so some think Ed | :15:39. | :15:38. | |
paints a picture of disorganisation next year so some Miliband cannot | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
get a majority so they are aiming for largest party next year. | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
Although Ed Miliband himself is unpopular, the Labour Party is still | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
on course to win a majority if you believe the polls so this is still a | :15:53. | :15:57. | |
successful opposition leader if you believe the polls. Yes, but his | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
personal ratings are incredibly bad for somebody who wants to win next | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
year. There is always the fear voters will look at him and try to | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
imagine him as Prime Minister in the next few months, when that is a real | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
question, and they cannot imagine it and start to move away from the | :16:16. | :16:17. | |
party in general. Frank, and start to move away from the | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
Cup, there are lots of and start to move away from the | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
England with tattered English flags. It has been few grim days. The | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
saddest sight on the streets of London as the flags still | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
fluttering. We all had so much excitement. I am not a massive | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
football fan but I shared in the excitement of this, there are so | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
many matches and you start making dates in the diary. The article says | :16:48. | :16:55. | |
that the economy will suffer to the tune of ?300 million. That is a lot | :16:56. | :17:03. | |
of beer not being drunk. And a lot of barbecue sausages that will not | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
get cooked as a result of it. Who devised that figure? I think | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
somebody very bored sitting in their bedroom! The other big story around | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
at the moment is David Cameron's struggle with the rest of the EU | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
against Juncker taking it over. Everybody seems to agree this is the | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
right fight to have but everybody also agrees that he will lose it. He | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
has decided to make this fight about continuing the fight rather than | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
winning it. He has said that he will hang onto this to the bitter end, | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
and it has been interesting as a political journalist charting that | :17:43. | :17:45. | |
language. I was speaking to government sources recently who were | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
very confident they were going to block Juncker, but now it is David | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
Cameron standing up and making the right argument even if no one | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
listens. It will be given some consolation prize, presumably. That | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
is what he hopes, and that is the way that John Major said the EU | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
works. On that cheerful note, thank you, and now we move on to the | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
weather forecast. Yesterday was a fine day for much of the UK, let's | :18:16. | :18:18. | |
get the prospects for fine day for much of the UK, let's | :18:19. | :18:21. | |
get the prospects for today and the start of Wimbledon tomorrow. Another | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
fine day to come foremost today, yes it might be slightly shorter but if | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
anything slightly warmer as well. Most of us will continue to see | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
spells of sunshine, there are always some exceptions. Some cloud across | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
eastern England is melting away, but this cloud across Scotland is more | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
stubborn, and providing outbreaks of rain. Cloudy at times across | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
southern Scotland, Northern Ireland. The small chance of some showers | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
here, but across England and Wales cloud will bubble up at the | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
temperatures will jump up when the sun is out. It will be cooler around | :19:01. | :19:10. | |
the coasts and cooler with the rain in the north-west, which persists | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
overnight. It is a damp night for Scotland, elsewhere a dry night. A | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
dry start of the working week. The increasing risk of some showers | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
across eastern parts of England and Scotland but it will still be warm. | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
As we go through the week ahead, we start off with sunny spells but | :19:32. | :19:34. | |
there is an increasing risk of seeing some of those showers | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
breaking out, so we may need the roof at Wimbledon, particularly by | :19:40. | :19:41. | |
the end of the first week. Poland's urbane and anglophile | :19:42. | :19:56. | |
foreign minister, Radek Sikorski has been visiting Britain. | :19:57. | :19:58. | |
He's a contemporary of Boris Johnson and David Cameron at Oxford | :19:59. | :20:00. | |
university, and a one-time euro-sceptic. | :20:01. | :20:02. | |
But he's changed his mind, and is not a supporter of Mr Cameron's bid | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
to stop the federalist Jean-Claude Juncker from becoming President | :20:06. | :20:07. | |
of the European Commission. Mr Sikorski told me why. | :20:08. | :20:08. | |
The main parties in the European Parliament announced in advance who | :20:09. | :20:16. | |
their candidates would be, and Mr Juncker is the candidate of the | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
party that won the election so here's having the first chance to | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
form a winning team and a winning coalition. That seems to me to be | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
the more democratic procedure and it is just unfortunate that Britain | :20:32. | :20:38. | |
does not have a representation in Europe's ruling party. David Cameron | :20:39. | :20:41. | |
would argue that he does not have what it takes to drive the reform in | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
Europe that is urgently necessary. I would say that if the Tories were | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
part of the European People's party, he could have made that argument at | :20:53. | :21:00. | |
the Dublin summit when EPB chose their candidate and he may have | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
prevailed, but he made his choice. So it was at least a mistake not to | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
be in the European People's Party from your point of view? I wouldn't | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
dream of commenting but the rules are that the largest party gets the | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
top job. Does this mean that David Cameron's request for greater reform | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
in the European Union is doomed, do you think? I think Britain can gain | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
a lot of support and allies on the continent for sensible British | :21:35. | :21:37. | |
proposals to allow nation states the decision-making power, would call it | :21:38. | :21:49. | |
the subsidiary are two principal, and then do together the things that | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
we gained by working together, on energy and I would argue on defence. | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
On the question of reform, I guess the biggest question at the moment | :22:01. | :22:08. | |
is about the free movement of people. The first great movement of | :22:09. | :22:16. | |
people into this country were Polish, do you understand the fear | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
that free movement of people across Europe has engendered in many people | :22:24. | :22:30. | |
in Britain and other countries too of course? I understand that Polish | :22:31. | :22:33. | |
is now the second language of the British Isles and up to 10% of | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
children at British schools are Polish. Let me put it like this, I | :22:40. | :22:45. | |
was an immigrant into this country a while ago, I went back. We are | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
hoping that Polish people will also gain experience, learn English, gain | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
some capital both cultural and financial, and return home. We are | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
encouraging them to return. Coming back to your earlier point, we have | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
no problem with Britain making its social security system less | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
generous. For example on the continent, in particular in Poland, | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
we wouldn't pay you benefits or housing benefit from day one. You | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
would have two earned that right and it would take you some months. You | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
are changing your social security system to be more continental and | :23:27. | :23:33. | |
the European Union is not interfering in that. As long as you | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
make it non-discriminatory, we will not criticise you. One of the | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
statistics that was thrown at me before this interview was that in | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
terms of remittances back of welfare payments, polls send more back to | :23:47. | :23:53. | |
Poland than any other group put together. Do you understand why | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
British taxpayers may think this is a strange way to spend their welfare | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
bills? No, they pay in taxes something like 35% more than they | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
receive in benefits but it is true that recent immigrants tend to keep | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
strong links with their mother country and send remittances abroad | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
but this is their earned taxed income, not benefits. Welfare | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
tourism is a figment of some politicians' imagination. You | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
mentioned defence, because the old days when you look to America should | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
go now, Europe needs to defend herself? We have the largest economy | :24:35. | :24:40. | |
on earth and we cannot count on the generosity of the United States to | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
fix our security problems for us. We have to draw lessons from the | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
debacle of the wars in the 1990s and we now have a whole arc of | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
instability around us, Libya, Egypt, Syria, and the Ukraine. Do you see a | :24:58. | :25:07. | |
European army with a big British component looking ahead? We have | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
been told in no uncertain terms that Britain will never fight under the | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
EU flag but there will be conflicts on which the United States takes a | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
pass. Because of conflicts in the Middle East. Then sometimes we will | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
need to act as Europeans and we should be capable of doing so. The | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
concept of EU battle groups was a British concept and I think it | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
should be deployed. Poland shares a border with Russia and Ukraine, too | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
many people it seemed as if there is now Civil War opening in the | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
Ukraine. How seriously do you regard what is going on there and what is | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
the mood in Poland so close to it all? There is some version with | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
elements of regional separatism but it is very much fat from outside. | :25:59. | :26:07. | |
There is heavy weaponry, multiple rocket launchers, tanks, | :26:08. | :26:12. | |
anti-aircraft missiles coming across the border that you | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
anti-aircraft missiles coming across the shop. What do you think Vladimir | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
Putin is up to? Mr Putin is the shop. What do you think Vladimir | :26:19. | :26:27. | |
his union and he would like Ukraine in it. If he cannot get all of | :26:28. | :26:34. | |
Ukraine in it, he is trying to get parts of Ukraine in it, | :26:35. | :26:38. | |
Ukraine in it, he is trying to get is a sovereign state. If Russia | :26:39. | :26:41. | |
Ukraine in it, he is trying to get pushing back to the old USSR | :26:42. | :26:43. | |
boundaries, do you fear for other boundaries, do you fear for other | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
parts of what was the Soviet bloc? The Baltic states for instance and | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
even parts of Poland? They fear for it, and they are members of NATO and | :26:54. | :26:58. | |
we should make sure the security guarantees that have been extended | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
are credible because if they failed once, NATO itself would be... Its | :27:03. | :27:11. | |
credibility would be endangered so I think it is high time to correct the | :27:12. | :27:20. | |
last 15 years' negligence. We all thought Russia was a partner, but if | :27:21. | :27:27. | |
history thought Russia was a partner, but if | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
competitor, we have to draw the conclusions. It needs to be amended. | :27:32. | :27:41. | |
Thank you for joining us. Radek Sikorski there. | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
Mr Sikorski told me why. Ed Miliband has been on the front | :27:47. | :27:49. | |
pages for all the wrong reasons lately - underwhelming election | :27:50. | :27:51. | |
results, poor opinion polls, anonymous quotes from colleagues | :27:52. | :27:54. | |
questioning whether he can win the general election, | :27:55. | :27:55. | |
questioning whether he can win the leaves the stage if he doesn't. | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
And on top of what's been called the Ed problem, those polls also suggest | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
that the Tories are more trusted to run the economy than Labour. | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
So what's to be done? Chuka Umunna is Shadow Business | :28:05. | :28:06. | |
Secretary and one of Ed Miliband's staunchest supporters. | :28:07. | :28:07. | |
Good morning. Firstly, I want my owl. I hope | :28:08. | :28:20. | |
you're not going to do a U-turn on that. I don't know where people get | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
these ideas from. If you are going to hack an account, do something | :28:26. | :28:32. | |
better than an owl. Anyway, the IMF and everyone else has praised the | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
British economy now, the fastest growing and unemployment is falling | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
fast, as the Labour Party going to carry on saying everything is | :28:42. | :28:45. | |
terrible or are you going to change your tune on the economy? We are not | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
saying everything is terrible but we are saying more people get to share | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
in the recovery as it settles in and we know that not just between | :28:56. | :29:00. | |
regions, say London and other parts of the economy, but within regions | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
too there are far too many people not sharing that. I look at my own | :29:06. | :29:11. | |
constituency in Streatham, not typical seat, but we have seen the | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
unemployment falling but on the other hand I have a situation where | :29:17. | :29:25. | |
my constituency -- my constituents are earning less than in 2010 and | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
one in three children are living in poverty. I think many of our | :29:30. | :29:38. | |
businesses and people who work within them would say the reason we | :29:39. | :29:46. | |
have weathered the storm is because of our businesses. If you ask many | :29:47. | :29:55. | |
of our businesses how they weathered the storm, it is by reaching | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
agreements for pay cuts and reduced hours to get through the very | :30:00. | :30:03. | |
difficult choppy waters we have had over the last few years so I think | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
our businesses and our employees working in them, they are the reason | :30:08. | :30:12. | |
we have got through this. What we need now is much more longer-term | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
sustainable growth. The problem we have had in the past, it has been | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
too fast buck and not been properly balanced across the different | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
regions in our economy. So you are going to announce some big changes | :30:26. | :30:29. | |
to economic policy, how is that going to work? There are two things | :30:30. | :30:36. | |
to this, as Lord Adonis has been looking into how we can give the | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
regions and the cities to be masters of their destiny. This is building | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
on the proposals Lord Heseltine, who talk sense in this area. He said | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
central government should evolve about ?40 billion of spending to the | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
regions to let them spend how they see fit. That would go to Birmingham | :30:55. | :30:58. | |
City Council, Manchester City Council, and so forward? We would | :30:59. | :31:05. | |
say we will devolve ?20 billion for the same purpose, but in addition to | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
ensuring we empower the cities, we have do empower the people. The BBC | :31:10. | :31:13. | |
has carried out some interesting research on this -- we have do. One | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
in five people in our economy cannot do the full basics online of sending | :31:19. | :31:25. | |
an e-mail, filling in a form, and browsing. We talk about community is | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
disconnected from the global economy, and those were the ones | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
voting for UKIP in the European elections, and in that mass of | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
people who cannot do the things that all others take for granted, a very | :31:37. | :31:39. | |
large number of them are from those communities. -- that all others take | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
for granted. The next Labour government will be focused on | :31:45. | :31:47. | |
connecting people in the global economy so they can realise dreams | :31:48. | :31:54. | |
and aspirations. We have Maggie Philbin, she's helping us with this. | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
Labour is not trusted on the economy. Business does not trust | :32:00. | :32:02. | |
either. You are meeting business leaders this week. Is there anything | :32:03. | :32:07. | |
you can give them to cheer them up? I disagree with what you just said | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
about business leaders. Let's be clear, we will have to make some | :32:12. | :32:14. | |
tough decisions. People should be under no illusions about the | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
decisions we have to make and we are clear we will get public-sector | :32:21. | :32:23. | |
finances back in balance. We want to have it on a downward trajectory by | :32:24. | :32:25. | |
the end of the next Parliament. We said there would be no borrowing to | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
fund expenditure, and we said we would take as the starting point the | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
spending limits from George Osborne. One thing we are asking for, and | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
there will be a vote this week in the house Commons on Wednesday, is | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
for George Osborne to stop being a coward and allow the office of | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
budget responsibility to audit the Labour plans at the general election | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
-- the House of Commons. That is the best way of determining this. You | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
are daring him to audit you? He is running scared, because the head of | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
the budget responsibility office say they think it's a good idea. He is | :33:02. | :33:07. | |
running scared. He is petrified that the Obi are will give Labour's plans | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
the clean bill of health we expect. You have seen the polling in the | :33:14. | :33:16. | |
last week or two, and Ed Miliband is in trouble with the voters in terms | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
of his image, and there was a phrase used, to be a successful leader you | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
need two things, a long-term strategy and an idea, which Ed | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
Miliband perhaps does have, but you also need to be able to deal with | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
the passing celebrity culture, the passing trades and ability to dance | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
around and persuade people, and that he does not have at all. I don't | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
agree with that. In some respects, that belittles politics. We are not | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
playing celebrity Big Brother, we are talking about big issues that | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
affect different communities. How can we pay our way in the world? How | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
can we ensure that everybody achieves their dreams and | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
aspirations? If Ed is guilty of focusing on the issues that people | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
really care about taking a serious, deep look at what needs to happen in | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
the economy to change it, then, fine, because that is what he | :34:11. | :34:13. | |
seriously is what he seriously as bogus. Why do so many Labour | :34:14. | :34:21. | |
supporters see him as a poor leader? If we spent all our time obsessing | :34:22. | :34:27. | |
about polling surveys, we wouldn't be doing what we should be doing, | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
which is winning back the support we are already winning back. Under | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
Ed's leadership, the real polling that matters is voting. We have seen | :34:37. | :34:40. | |
the Labour Party put on 2300 councillors in the marginal seats we | :34:41. | :34:47. | |
need to gain a majority. In the last lot of local elections, everybody | :34:48. | :34:50. | |
said if you got 500 or 600 councillors, you would be on course | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
to win, and you 300. No they didn't. They said we needed 300, and we got | :34:55. | :35:04. | |
about 150 lives, and we got 300, and now you say we should for 500. -- we | :35:05. | :35:12. | |
should aim for 500. The bottom line is we went down to the second worst | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
defeat in our history in 2010. If you asked people in 2010 we could | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
have done that in one term of opposition, they would have laughed | :35:22. | :35:24. | |
you out of the pub. A Labour government next year, is it in the | :35:25. | :35:31. | |
bag? No, it's not. We are aiming for more than that. We are hearing a lot | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
of talk about this and it's nonsense. We want to build a big | :35:38. | :35:42. | |
electoral real coalition of people in the country to deliver a Labour | :35:43. | :35:45. | |
government, because that is what will make a difference. And you | :35:46. | :35:50. | |
think the strategy you are using now is absolutely fine? Steady as she | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
goes? There's no steady as it goes. We have announced a big policy | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
changes in respect of how job-seekers benefit is paid to 18 to | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
21-year-olds, and the nonsense of a young person being penalised if they | :36:06. | :36:08. | |
undertake more than 16 hours of education or training in a week. All | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
of these policies have come out that the polls have not shifted. Ed | :36:15. | :36:16. | |
Miliband surely has to raise his game. You will have to raise your | :36:17. | :36:22. | |
game, including him. We are all doing very well, in my view, and we | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
need to build on the successes to date to make sure we get that | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
majority. That sounds like adopting the brace position. It is not | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
adopting the brace position. I saw the chat with the papers earlier, | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
and if you look at the fundamental qualities of Ed Miliband... He is a | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
very serious man, but he's not connecting with the public. He is | :36:45. | :36:47. | |
seen as very trustworthy. He is considered a man of great beliefs. | :36:48. | :36:53. | |
In this day an age when people lack confidence in the BBC, the police, | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
in different institutions, you can't dismiss those qualities -- day and | :36:58. | :37:04. | |
age. What I am saying is, is for whatever reason, he's not connecting | :37:05. | :37:07. | |
with voters and you say there is no problem? He is about the big issues. | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
People can have the parlour chat game. This is about voters on | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
doorsteps and opinion polls taken outside of the Westminster village. | :37:18. | :37:23. | |
People in Streatham don't ask me about the latest polls. They talk to | :37:24. | :37:26. | |
me about the education of their children. They talk to me about | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
jobs. They talk to me about the continuing tragic youth violence in | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
my constituency. We should not belittle politics, because this is | :37:36. | :37:38. | |
about people 's lives. Absolutely right. Chuka Umunna, thank you. | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
The House of Lords contains many independent and original characters, | :37:45. | :37:46. | |
and none more so than Baroness Trumpington of Sandwich. | :37:47. | :37:48. | |
A former minister in Mrs Thatcher's government, now in her nineties, | :37:49. | :37:51. | |
Jean Barker - as was - has had a colourful career. | :37:52. | :37:53. | |
She spent time in the women's Land Army, at Bletchley Park, | :37:54. | :37:56. | |
in advertising, was a headmaster's wife, and a local councillor. | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
She recently became an internet hit when she was caught | :38:01. | :38:02. | |
on camera, flicking a rude gesture at her colleague in | :38:03. | :38:05. | |
the Lords, Tom King, when he dared to refer to her senior status. | :38:06. | :38:11. | |
Baroness Trumpington has been telling me some of her life stories, | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
starting with how she encountered Lloyd George: | :38:15. | :38:21. | |
My family had been rendered homeless because of the Army taking over our | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
home, and they were desperate to know what to do with me. The whole | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
family were great friends with my family. So, desperation, and Lloyd | :38:33. | :38:42. | |
George took me in, and very decent of him. Very decent is not the most | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
commonly used phrase about Lloyd George. Did he make a pass at you? | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
There is a stupid story and I wish I had never told it, I think he just | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
had nothing better to do and seized a tape measure and said, go and | :38:57. | :39:02. | |
stand against the wall and I will measure you. And that's exactly what | :39:03. | :39:07. | |
he did. I can assure you I was much too scared. If he had tried anything | :39:08. | :39:13. | |
funny, I'd been out of there like a shot. The war years were wild years, | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
in a sense. We think about them being terrible years, but the you | :39:19. | :39:20. | |
they were all excitement at Bletchley. No, you are wrong, there | :39:21. | :39:26. | |
was no excitement at Bletchley, it was solid work in one room. Not | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
talking to anybody in any other room. Not going anywhere, apart from | :39:32. | :39:39. | |
the people you work with. But there was misbehaviour at Bletchley, | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
involving you being thrown into a laundry basket and rushed about at | :39:43. | :39:49. | |
one point. You know, if you do 9-6, four to midnight, midnight to nine | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
o'clock, we in, week out, for years, there are times in the middle of the | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
night where you get fed up. After all, I did quite get happily into | :40:00. | :40:07. | |
the laundry basket, so it is my fault. I was then pushed a great | :40:08. | :40:10. | |
speed down the corridor and I did not end up in the gents cloakroom, | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
as people said, I ended up in the Commander's office, where | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
unfortunately he opened the door as I shot in. You came from a very | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
wealthy family who lost manager in the depression, but you never went | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
hungry until you ended up in America after the war -- who lost their | :40:29. | :40:35. | |
money. I just loved it. I arrived with ?2 in my pocket. And I have a | :40:36. | :40:42. | |
job, but I had forgotten, or didn't know, that I had to wait two weeks | :40:43. | :40:49. | |
to get paid, and my brother had arranged all of his friends to be | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
kind to me, including finding me somewhere to live. I had no money at | :40:55. | :40:56. | |
all. I had to go through the somewhere to live. I had no money at | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
all. I had to go dustbins, and I had a couple of very nice handbags out | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
of those dustbins, and I lived the life of a Rover, but I had a lot of | :41:07. | :41:12. | |
fun. You mentioned your brother. Of all of the mistakes you recount in | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
your book, the least comprehensible is your brother turning down a girl | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
called Jacqueline because she had dry hair. Tell us about her. I had | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
seen these two girls, the two sisters doing a tour of Europe, and | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
I had all of these people coming in for a drink in the house, and they | :41:29. | :41:34. | |
came. After everybody left, I said to my brother, she was jolly pretty, | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
did you make a date question mark over no, she had dry hair. Well, | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
he's never gotten over the fact that that was Jackie Bouvier as she was. | :41:45. | :41:51. | |
Then Kennedy, then an as is. Exactly. -- own as is. You had you | :41:52. | :42:01. | |
say the happiest years of your life as a headmaster 's wife in | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
Cambridge. He once jumped completely into the pool in your clothes on a | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
great occasion -- you once jumped into the pool. I'm afraid I did. For | :42:10. | :42:16. | |
17 years I presented the swimming cups and the Polo cups on speech day | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
at the edge of the pool will stop I was always in my best close. I had | :42:22. | :42:28. | |
just had my hair done and I jumped -- best set of clothes. Half of the | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
school jumped in to save me. My husband would not speak to me that | :42:33. | :42:39. | |
three weeks. Why did you do it? Just for the hell of it. I was leaving, | :42:40. | :42:45. | |
just the hell it. You became a Conservative councillor in Cambridge | :42:46. | :42:48. | |
almost by accident but it launched or political career and you became a | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
minister under Margaret Thatcher. Lots of people found Margaret | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
Thatcher as intimidating, terrifying, difficult but you | :42:56. | :42:57. | |
clearly got on well with her. What was the secret? That I did not care. | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
I had to be true to myself. It wasn't like -- if it wasn't like, | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
that was too bad, but it was better to stick to your guns. I think it | :43:10. | :43:18. | |
was usable to her because it gave her something she could remember | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
when other people spoke as I did. There are a great many questions to | :43:23. | :43:29. | |
be answered... At the age of 91 you are an active Conservative peer in | :43:30. | :43:31. | |
the House of Lords. What worries you most about what is going on in | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
politics at the moment? There are too many peers, no doubt about it. | :43:36. | :43:39. | |
Too many lords. Something has to be done. I do hope it doesn't mean that | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
I have to go. That is the danger of saying that. It is a dangerous | :43:46. | :43:50. | |
thing, I know. There are a hell of a lot of liberals who don't really add | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
up to much. Purge the Liberals? They don't actually add up to much. | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
Baroness Trumpington, speaking to me at her home in London. | :44:01. | :44:02. | |
And her autobiography, Coming Up Trumps is out now. | :44:03. | :44:05. | |
And there's huge reluctance on the part of America | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
and our own government, to get involved in what's clearly | :44:10. | :44:11. | |
President Obama has made clear that Iraq's Shia prime minister, | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
Nouri Al-Maliki, must reach out to the Sunnis and other minorities. | :44:18. | :44:20. | |
Is the country on the brink of collapse? | :44:21. | :44:24. | |
In a moment, we?ll be speaking to the former Defence Secretary, Liam | :44:25. | :44:27. | |
Fox, about what he thinks we can, should, or might have to do in Iraq. | :44:28. | :44:32. | |
But first, Zuhair Al-Naher is a close associate of the | :44:33. | :44:35. | |
Do you have the resources in Baghdad to fight off ISIS? The Iraqi army | :44:36. | :44:51. | |
has halted the advance of the ISIS fighters, however, the Iraqi armed | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
forces need support. What do they need? They need intelligence | :44:56. | :45:03. | |
support. This is a good step that the US has sent 300 experts. They | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
will advise the Iraqi army and improve their strategies, but we | :45:08. | :45:12. | |
also hope that if there is needed to be surgical strikes based on | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
intelligence information, on centres of terrorists, we will get that | :45:19. | :45:21. | |
support from the US in order to allow the Army to move. John Simpson | :45:22. | :45:27. | |
was saying you no longer have the missiles are needed. Is that true? | :45:28. | :45:34. | |
-- that you needed. The army and air force need more support in that | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
aspect. Absolutely. Almost everybody from Tony Blair to President Obama | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
said that the Prime Minister had failed, and made Iraq a more | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
sectarian place. She over sunny, and he has to reach out very fast and | :45:48. | :45:59. | |
then go. That claim is exaggerated. The Prime Minister has reached out | :46:00. | :46:05. | |
but he has faced challenges, the challenges being suspicion between | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
the parties. Some Sunni elements have been linked to the extremist or | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
former Saddam Hussein months, so there is suspicion but there is no | :46:17. | :46:21. | |
question about it. Iraq is going through a process now. The results | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
of the elections have been endorsed and now the political parties and | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
the newly elected MPs will get together. Is there going to be a new | :46:30. | :46:36. | |
coalition government? Absolutely, and Prime Minister Nori monarchy, | :46:37. | :46:46. | |
his platform was to join a government that was inclusive of all | :46:47. | :46:55. | |
of the sectors. Thank you very much for joining me. And so to Doctor | :46:56. | :47:03. | |
Fox. The Sunday Times has Niall Ferguson the historian asking the | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
question, as the West Brom wobbly. Is the answer yes? I don't think so, | :47:10. | :47:15. | |
but given the political fatigue that set in after the long involvement in | :47:16. | :47:21. | |
Iraq after 2003, I think there is a reticence by politicians to get | :47:22. | :47:25. | |
involved again. I think that is a mistake because if you look at what | :47:26. | :47:32. | |
ISIS represent in terms of threats, the threat of jihadists coming back | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
to threaten us at home and more potentially lethal, a clash between | :47:38. | :47:44. | |
Saudi and Iran by proxy or directly, we have to recognise that inactivity | :47:45. | :47:50. | |
is not an option. If Britain decided to come in alongside America, what | :47:51. | :47:55. | |
could we offer in practical terms? If the US is asked to comment, there | :47:56. | :48:06. | |
will be reconnaissance, possibly air strikes. There is nothing we have in | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
specific assets that the Americans don't have but the Americans might | :48:12. | :48:21. | |
want to use British basis -- bases and share intelligence. If we allow | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
the situation to get out of control, the risks are horrendous. | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
It is already close to being out of control, if Britain was asked to use | :48:29. | :48:34. | |
British planes in surgical strikes against ISIS, could we do that? We | :48:35. | :48:39. | |
could, I don't think we would because the Americans have a greater | :48:40. | :48:50. | |
capability. Remember the west is seen as a single entity. There are | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
those who say if we don't get involved, if we hunker down there | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
will be no backlash, that is utterly wrong because the jihadists don't | :49:01. | :49:05. | |
hate us because of what we do, they hate us because of who we are. It is | :49:06. | :49:12. | |
our values and our history that they detest. A lot of the jihadists are | :49:13. | :49:16. | |
coming back to Britain, what can we do about that? Can we take away | :49:17. | :49:23. | |
their passports? We can technically do that, and we can remove | :49:24. | :49:32. | |
citizenship. We have the security services to ensure that they are | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
watched and that they don't pose a greater threat. Not enough perhaps? | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
That is a question we are going to have to ask, whether the security | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
services have adequate authority, but also do the powers that they | :49:48. | :49:54. | |
have reflect increasing need? You have people at the moment in light | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
of Edward Snowden saying the state has too many powers. What kind of | :49:59. | :50:04. | |
powers should we be giving, in your view, to the security services to | :50:05. | :50:10. | |
deal with this? The whole area of intercept for example needs to be | :50:11. | :50:14. | |
looked at. It is a genuine debate between the libertarians who saved | :50:15. | :50:18. | |
the state must not get too powerful and pretty much the rest of us who | :50:19. | :50:24. | |
say the state must protect us. So more manpower and more money as | :50:25. | :50:32. | |
well. If required. If I am a jihadists and I have had a great | :50:33. | :50:35. | |
time beheading people in Iraq and Syria and I arrived with my passport | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
at Heathrow airport, what can be done to stop me coming home and | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
spreading my poison here? There are limits to what we can do. In a free | :50:45. | :50:50. | |
society, we have the ability to move. I can move back to Cardiff | :50:51. | :50:56. | |
suburbs or wherever? Yes, and we have to decide what state powers we | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
can use to make sure you are watched so that you don't pose a greater | :51:02. | :51:07. | |
threat to the civilian population. I suppose practically we couldn't | :51:08. | :51:10. | |
deport people into ISIS territory because we couldn't get there. It is | :51:11. | :51:15. | |
a real worry and it is a problem that will be with us for a very long | :51:16. | :51:21. | |
time. We have to win the ideological battle as well and that takes you | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
into areas of diversity in our society and how we deal with that. | :51:26. | :51:31. | |
Do you think we should bring back control orders? Only if we think it | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
can provide a positive benefit without some sort of counteracting | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
disincentive to do so. Let's turn out of the other political story | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
which is David Cameron's fight to stop Mr Juncker becoming leader of | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
the EU in effect. It is clearly a fight many people in the | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
Conservative party would agree he has to take on and yet he will lose | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
it. How will that affect his standing in the party? It is a real | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
pleasure to watch the Prime Minister doing what he thinks is right. If | :52:06. | :52:13. | |
the Juncker agenda is wrong for the people of Europe, then the British | :52:14. | :52:17. | |
Prime Minister is right to stand up against it. He may not win the | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
battle but it is so much nicer to see a Prime Minister willing to take | :52:23. | :52:27. | |
a battle and get a bloody nose than not doing so. But a European Union | :52:28. | :52:35. | |
led by Juncker will presumably not give us the changes that we want in | :52:36. | :52:47. | |
order to stay in. There has been a sea change in Europe, it's just that | :52:48. | :52:51. | |
the bureaucracy and European leaders don't seem to have noticed that | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
there were major inroads made by anti-European parties just a few | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
weeks ago in European elections. The question is will they take notice or | :53:01. | :53:06. | |
continue on the same direction? What will our changes the EU believe it | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
would convince you at the time of a referendum to stay in? I want us to | :53:13. | :53:19. | |
have a much looser relationship, back to a common market. I want to | :53:20. | :53:23. | |
see lots of powers coming back to the UK. The end of free movement? I | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
think if you can get free movement to be related just the labour | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
market, then that's where I would like to go. I don't believe in ever | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
closer union because the logical in point of that is union. If David | :53:38. | :53:44. | |
Cameron is unable after the Juncker fight to use that phrase, if he is | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
unable to do anything about so-called benefit tourism, your view | :53:51. | :53:55. | |
would be that we should leave the EU? The first thing would be that we | :53:56. | :54:03. | |
will have to win the general election so that we can have the | :54:04. | :54:08. | |
referendum. So we are now in this referendum territory. Some people | :54:09. | :54:09. | |
have said Liam Fox will referendum territory. Some people | :54:10. | :54:23. | |
renegotiation. I have told you I want a looser relationship. Being | :54:24. | :54:26. | |
out holds no fear for me but if we are able to get a relationship | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
closer to the won the British people voted for in 1975, a looser | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
relationship, that is fine and dandy. Sounds like a potential | :54:37. | :54:42. | |
leader of the no campaign to me. Now the news headlines. | :54:43. | :54:45. | |
Good morning. There's a warning that | :54:46. | :54:47. | |
the conflicts in the middle-East will have a long-term effect | :54:48. | :54:49. | |
on security in Britain. Speaking on this programme the | :54:50. | :55:00. | |
former defence secretary Liam Fox suggested the security forces might | :55:01. | :55:04. | |
need more resources and powers to deal with any threat to Britain. | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
David Cameron will call for a vote amongst EU leaders on who should be | :55:09. | :55:12. | |
the next leader of the European commission. The move has been | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
the next leader of the European described as unprecedented and comes | :55:17. | :55:19. | |
as nine left-wing leaders from across the EU have agreed to back | :55:20. | :55:24. | |
Jean-Claude Juncker. David Cameron has argued strongly against the | :55:25. | :55:32. | |
move, saying Mr Juncker is too much of a Brussels insider to back the | :55:33. | :55:34. | |
reform. The next news is on BBC One at one o'clock. | :55:35. | :55:49. | |
reform. The next news is on BBC One after this programme. Comedian and | :55:50. | :55:55. | |
chef Hardeep Singh Coli, and June Brown. | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
on security in Britain. Since winning the BBC Young Musician | :56:01. | :56:03. | |
of the Year competition ten years ago, the Scottish-Italian violinist | :56:04. | :56:05. | |
Nicola Benedetti has had a stunningly successful career. | :56:06. | :56:07. | |
She's performed all over the world, including at the Last Night | :56:08. | :56:09. | |
of the Proms, and recorded a string of albums. | :56:10. | :56:11. | |
She's also a passionate advocate of music in schools, | :56:12. | :56:14. | |
and involved in a BBC project to introduce children to ten essential | :56:15. | :56:16. | |
pieces of classical music. She has | :56:17. | :56:18. | |
a new Scottish-themed album out. And she can be seen next month | :56:19. | :56:21. | |
at the Cheltenham music festival. Nicola, welcome. | :56:22. | :56:29. | |
You have a scheme to get classical music out to schoolchildren in | :56:30. | :56:37. | |
Britain. Yes, I will be advocating for it. You play lots of classical | :56:38. | :56:49. | |
music on your album but also lots of fast Scottish fiddle music, how | :56:50. | :56:53. | |
difficult was that? It is difficult to adjust, it is such different | :56:54. | :56:59. | |
mental and rhythmical style, it is a lot of adjustment for me to do but | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
the community around the folk scene embrace everyone and they are | :57:05. | :57:08. | |
wonderful. And you will be giving me some burns, which is as it should | :57:09. | :57:10. | |
be. Nicola, welcome. | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
That's all we have time for this morning. | :57:15. | :57:24. | |
But for now, appropriately enough, we say farewell with Nicola | :57:25. | :57:25. | |
Benedetti and Auld Lang Syne. | :57:26. | :57:33. |