20/07/2014 The Andrew Marr Show

A hideous thing happened over Ukraine.

Nearly 300 people, mostly Dutch and Malaysians, some

of ours, and their final minutes must have been indescribable.

The eyes of the world are on Vladimir Putin.

So they should be - just so long as we don't forget, for

Well over 300 deaths recently, and rising.

And joining me today for our review of the Sunday newspapers, Sarah

Baxter, editor of the Sunday Times magazine , the broadcaster Sara

Firth, who this week resigned from the Kremlin-backed news channel

Russia Today, and joining us live from the

Latitude Festival in Suffolk, the writer and broadcaster, Robin Ince.

"An outrage of unspeakable proportions" is how President Obama

described the downing of the Malaysian Airlines flight.

America says that the incident is a "wake-up call for Europe"

and stated that President Putin is controlling the situation.

So what now for Russia, and what will the international response be?

At this momentous time, I'll be joined by our brand new

Having just got his feet under the desk vacated by William Hague in

last week's reshuffle, he's faced with challenges from Ukraine to

Here, the biggest controversy of the week has been the assisted

dying Bill in the Lords, which seeks to legalise some euthanasia.

Huge emotions on both sides, and something that may one day affect

I'll be talking to its promoter, Lord Falconer,

And from Spooks to witch-hunting, I'll also be talking to the actor

Richard Armitage about the acclaimed stage production of The Crucible

From one of the summer's biggest festivals,

That's Lily Allen at Latitude, a special performance for us later.

The Prime Minister, David Cameron, has said that Europe

must take action, if Moscow does not change its approach to

the downing of the Malaysia Airlines plane over Ukraine.

Writing in the Sunday Times, Mr Cameron said that alongside

sympathy for those who died, there was also anger.

And he accused Moscow of fomenting the conflict in Ukraine.

All 298 people on board the plane were killed.

Our World Affairs Correspondent Fergal Keane sent this report

These are the symbols that mark where they fell to earth. And

scattered across the ground, the wreckage of flight MH17.

scattered across the ground, the cockpit of the plane. And here the

belongings of the travellers. On holidays, business, moving home. But

the only investigators or local police taking notes and photographs.

The crucial black boxes are gone, but were too is a mystery. There is

still no proper cord and no proper investigation. -- but where is also

a mystery. On either side of the road seems too

a mystery. On either side of the The majority of the dead from the

Netherlands, and its government is furious

Netherlands, and its government is disrespect shown by the militia to

bodies and belongings. In the face of this horror, isn't it time to

stop fighting once and for all? You are only here because foreigners

stop fighting once and for all? You were killed. Where were you when our

people were dying? Among the local population there is deep shock, no

anger or hatred here, as the mothers and daughters of the village

remember those lying in their fields.

The Israeli Army says it's expanding its ground offensive in Gaza.

More than 340 Palestinians and five Israelis have been killed,

Efforts to broker a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas

The Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and

UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon will take part in talks in Qatar.

Our Chief International Correspondent, Lyse Doucet,

This is what Israel says it is targeting now, tunnels used by Hamas

for cross-border raids. This Hamas video shows their men armed with

rocket propelled grenades. Israel says its ground operations have

uncovered more than a dozen tunnels and thwarted two attempts at

infiltrations. It lost two soldiers in one operation, and there have

been injuries as well. Hamas has been sending a defiant

message. They are preparing for the long run.

And, yet again, civilians are on the front line. At the UN's warehouses

in Gaza they are struggling to keep up. We only had stock for about

35,000 people and we have gone through 50,000 today and we will

start running out of supplies tomorrow. The growing human cost of

this war is pushing more mediators to come to this region. But as

pressure grows for a cease-fire, both sides know that the time to

achieve their military objectives is running out. So that means, for the

moment, the humanitarian crisis may only get worse.

A court in America has ordered a tobacco company to pay nearly ?14

billion in damages to the wife of a 36-year-old smoker who died

Cynthia Robinson decided to seek compensation from

RJ Reynolds Tobacco Company after her husband's death in 1996.

She said that it had failed to inform him of the dangers.

Her lawyer proved that he was addicted and that he'd

The company says it's confident it can overturn the ruling on appeal.

Prince George is approaching his first birthday,

and to mark the occasion an official photograph has been

released, showing him on a family outing with his parents at the

It's expected he will celebrate his birthday next week with

a small party for family and friends at Kensington Palace.

I'll be back with the headlines just before ten o'clock.

Well, as we heard in the news, the crash of flight MH17 is not only

a human tragedy, it's turning into a major diplomatic crisis too.

I'm joined now from eastern Ukraine by our correspondent, Fergal Keane.

We've heard your report, and looking at the crash site, is it not already

too late for proper forensic investigation into exactly how the

plane down? I think it's certainly going to be very difficult for a

proper forensic investigation. When we came here yesterday people were

wandering through, and there was briefly a chord in which happened

when they were removing bodies from the scene and most of the human

remains have now been taken away. -- a chord. It is still possible for

people to walk right through here and move across the crash site, and

anybody if they wanted to remove material from the scene that might

be relevant to an investigation, there is nothing to stop them. The

priority remains to get the international investigators, some of

whom are in Kiev, to get them here on site. As yet, there is no

investigation worthy of the name. All that we have seen in the last 24

hours are emergency service workers coming into the fields and gathering

human remains and also local police taking photographs and notes. There

is a sense of a stand-off there as well as both sides are eyeing each

other up. That's true. The fundamental thing to remember about

this place is that the only law on the ground here is made by

militiamen, and these are people who a couple of months ago were doing

jobs and are now unemployed and have been given weapons and being given

control and the power of life and death in the area. Some of them are

approaching now, probably just going to inspect the scene. One is totally

at the mercy of these people and they can essentially declare to

international observers and journalists precisely what they are

allowed to do. A couple of final questions. One, do we know what has

happened to the bodies? There has been a lot of outrage in Holland

about the way they have been treated, and there have been reports

of lorries taking away large amounts of material that could be crucial to

the investigation. Do you know about that? Yes. It's very hard to discern

precisely what happened and the motivations. There has been a lot of

chaos and indiscipline here. Investigating an air crash, at the

best of times, in a developed country in peaceful circumstances is

profoundly difficult, let alone in the middle of a war zone. I think

some bodies were taken away and placed in the mortuary in .net and

yesterday some taken away. -- Donetsk. Local emergency services

thing they had to start moving them for hygienic reasons. Thank you very

much indeed for joining us. Most effective story is in the Sunday

Times, not only because they have the Prime Minister writing, but also

they have a good story about intercepted telephone transmissions

would suggest that the missile launcher was taken out of Russia,

into Ukraine and then driven back again afterwards. We will talk about

that later. The Sunday Telegraph features the aircraft victims robbed

of their dignity by Reynolds, which is what I was asking Fergal about.

-- by rebels. A very aggressive front page from the Mail on Sunday,

not everybody would agree with that. And we also talk about what happened

to the bodies, and the observer sees Vladimir Putin given last chance as

world-weary grows over MH17. One of the points being made in the papers

is that people should do something about it and

Sarah Baxter, you did do something, you resign from Russia today. There

is that because you did not like the coverage of this story in

particular? It was a long time coming, and this latest story was a

final example for me of the way we handled this type of coverage. It

wasn't a bolt from the blue, not just this story, it had been a long

time I had been questioning my position. You basically thought it

was Kremlin propaganda? It is a tricky one. I had worked there for

five years and I had reasons for doing that and I have often very

loudly defended them and what they were trying to achieve. I think the

problem is, when it comes to a story like this, that is so sensitive you

really see what is going on. You have chosen the Sunday Times to

feature. This is the transcripts, and this is the information being

released by Ukrainian officials, and you have them saying about the

surface to air missile launcher crossing the border at 1am last

Thursday. They have actually got the telephone conversation is published

here. That important to say that they have been edited and they

cannot be verified. And it's also coming from Ukraine, so you have to

have a healthy dose of scepticism, but when you read them, it is pretty

damning. As we said, the most important thing here is going to be

getting the conclusive evidence that will .1 way or another. Very

difficult to get it. Then, what does the West do about it question what

it's all very well to say that we hate Vladimir Putin but there is a

big problem about what the West actually does. The West has never

really known what to do with Vladimir Putin over a number of

things. This is evidence, if anyone needed it, that he's been behaving

like a criminal. He's been covering things up and behaving as if he was

the injured party somehow when there are masses of dead civilians. But

what to do? You can see the fault lines emerging with different hawks

and doves. You have chosen the observer here. This is to say, have

come we create some wriggle room for Demir Putin? You don't want to push

into a corner -- Putin. This says that we should not push into a

corner, and saying that you can have a corner, and saying that you can

have guns of August moment where a corner, and saying that you can

careful, out of this terrible, tragic accident. At the same

careful, out of this terrible, even Jonathon Earl, who is quite

doltish about it, tragic accident. At the same time

even Jonathon Earl, who he says there will be a lot of wrangles to

come, there will be litigation, international hearings and it will

tie Vladimir Putin down for a long time, so how do we deal with it? He

is arguing that maybe it is a good thing and am not sure I agree, but

some of the evidence has disappeared which gives Putin the opportunity to

never really come to grips with what happened and have a face saving

international commission that might let him get out of it. It doesn't

sound like he gets out of it. I should say, a lot of the coverage is

focused on the victims themselves in the family tragedies. Robin Ince,

you have been looking at that in particular. Yes, it's very odd when

you are somewhere like here, in a particular. Yes, it's very odd when

you are field in Suffolk and I saw somebody last night looking at the

newspaper and saying that they had to come back to the real world and

they felt slightly sick having been in a different Adventureland. Here

in the Sunday Telegraph you have images of this family, kind of

showing the very important side, the human side, which you also see on

the cover of the Sunday Times. I think what we also have to remember

reading this coverage is there is a lot of talk of the tragedy for this

family and the other families involved. Let's hope that we also

don't get caught in that other human tradition in journalism which is

just have an immediate emotional reaction and then drift off next day

to no longer thinking about it. I think it's important to seek that he

our families, those who have suffered an incredible tragedy,

something so sudden, but at the same time let go a bit deeper and not

just flit away from it. A powerful comment in the Mail On Sunday, do

not turn one tragedy into a global catastrophe. That is an important

piece of commentary. The talking about being careful with what we do

next and what the West should do. But we should not do is call

Vladimir Putin a terrorist. That is incredibly inflammatory. It argues

from the other point of view, it says in any war the aggressor is the

first one who makes the move into neutral or disputed territory, and

the aggressor was the European Union. What has happened now is

incredibly tragic, we are trying to get all of the information and facts

to piece together what happened, and that is coming out, but that has

taken place in the context of a much wider situation. We are culpable in

that situation. Nobody is suggesting that whoever shot this plane down

intended to shoot down a Western airline. There does not seem any

indication. If it had not been for this thing, every front page would

have been covered by what is going on in Gaza, 300 people died

already. You have chosen a spread about this. It has been pushed into

the middle of the pages. It is a moving spread, black and white

photographs. The point that it is making is both sites have been here

before. My husband is a photographer, I almost thought they

were his photos, he took pictures like this in the 1990s. This is the

long struggle, the women and children are often the ones losing

out. The international world does know what could be done in the

Middle East, there have been structures for peace agreement

forever. Nothing ever happens. There has got to be the will on both sides

to compromise. People almost always blame Israel, injuring Netanyahu is

clearly playing a political game, at this time, it was Hamas. Everybody

knows what that deal could be, it is so frustrating to see so much

suffering continuing. We are turning to the front-page of the Independent

On Sunday, the same story. Robin, you have got the stories to compare.

Yes, the Independent On Sunday, from the late 20th century onwards, we

found out that in conflict there was a change when it was no longer the

soldiers or those who were overtly fighting the situation, the majority

of victims of war are civilians. Especially with Gaza, every time

read about Gaza, there is such a level of confusion, such a

difficulty of understanding what is going on, and such an easy to

dismiss either side's argument as knee jerk bigotry. The Independent

On Sunday goes back to the number of civilians who are again killed in

the confusion of politics. It is not those who are fighting the war, it

is those living around the war. We need to look deeper, we need to look

at all manner of things, including the arms trade. So many different

levels which I would like to see the newspapers continue to deal with,

not just in the week when these things are the big story. You have a

story from the Sunday Mirror, this has been widely reported in Russia

as well? The Russians are as interested as we are. Absolutely.

The picture of the march that took place yesterday in central London.

Tens of thousands of people turning out. Internationally, that is

gaining a huge amount of tension -- attention, everybody is feeling the

devastating loss of civilian life, it needs to be stopped. Robin, I can

just about see you are in a sun-dappled environment, but

everybody has been waiting for news of terrible storms and lightning.

Are you looking at the sky and flinching? Last night was a 1930s

universal horror film, the expected Lord Byron and Mary Sherry, like

ring from 10pm, and a torrential downpour. It is an intriguing time,

to see the sky lit up. People are intrigued. The weather has been

terrible in one way, but such a spectacle, people here have almost

counted it is one of the headliners. Turning from the lightning strikes

and the storms takes us straight to the reshuffle, the aftermath. Much

discussed in the papers, lots of cross ministers and ministers who

thought they should have been ministers, and so forth. A lot of

people think that David Cameron's reshuffle was made for cynical

reasons. That is what the Independent On Sunday says. They

think it was windowdressing and presentation. I would like to see

the female ministers show their stuff now. They will impress people.

By saying they are token appointment seems belittling. All of the BDO

virtually said it will not be important, and David Cameron has

blindsided the media, so people are cross with him. Yes, but it looks

like shovelling out Michael Gove was a popular move. We will see how

Nicky Morgan gets on. She says she will carry on his policies, but the

idea being with a less abrasive touch. It has been a funny week. As

you said, we have got a new Foreign Secretary, who will be appearing,

crafted in at the most extraordinary moment. It has become very

significant. It is a cracker. From his point of view. Extraordinary.

How is this being reported in Russia? Is it playing big? Or is it

pushed down the bottom of the pages? Not our reshuffle! The story

of the day, the Malaysian air disaster. It is being massively

reported. I resigned from my channel over our stand on that. They take a

different point of view, there has been misinformation put out.

Virtually everybody saying it must be default of Ukraine? Yes, a

counter narrative. When you look at the slightly inflammatory headlines

here, this is what I have always said about working for the channel,

the idea of countering what the Western mainstream media does is

very valuable, but you have got to do it accurately, you have got to

have the facts. In this situation, the reporting ranges from inaccurate

to completely bizarre. We all use the channel from time to time for

that purpose. A great story in the Sunday Times, Hillary Clinton's

bandwagon has seemed unstoppable until now. We have a new girl on the

block. Her bandwagon always seems unstoppable until it stops. This

time, one wonders whether it will be Elizabeth Warren, from

Massachusetts, who is becoming the new party Dari and -- darling, just

as Barack Obama did in 2008. new party Dari and -- darling, just

quite a populist. The Clintons have carried a lot of baggage,

quite a populist. The Clintons have Clinton is popular with Wall Street,

Elizabeth Warren is trying to be popular with Main Street. In some

ways, it is less about her than the American public's reluctance to

totally impressed Hillary Clinton. We must try to get her on the show

one day. An interesting woman. Robin, tell us about the Latitude

Festival, it is a Festival of ideas. You are talking about science, you

have conversations about politics and literature alongside the music,

yes? Yes, it is an incredible variety, you go, I do not know

whether to go and see music or King Lear or the National Ballet of an

oak tree. I have to apologise, because I went to see a band on

Friday, he was very loud, I am slightly deaf in the ear. At the

moment, this is why my eyes seemed to wander off, so many

distractions, just as people are getting ready to create this

incredible number of artists, people talking, I have seen discussions

about Genesis is, I have them seem some form of mime. Yes, I have seen

mine! And we know it was not a Bacardi and Coke for breakfast!

Soaring temperatures and endless sunshine for most of us

this week, with the odd thunderstorm thrown in to clear the air.

I don't know about you, but I've been wilting.

It is unstoppable, more heat to come. The temperatures will be

rising again. Today, a few storms on the horizon. These are the storms we

had last night. They took an easterly track. At the moment, no

storms across the country at all, it is a quiet start, with sunshine. But

they will start developing. Later in the morning and into the afternoon,

anywhere from East Anglia, part of the Midlands, we could catch some

downpours. One or two areas will get a tremendous amount of rain, or ten

miles away, nothing at all. The West will fare the best, with mostly dry

weather. A humid night. That spells and other warm day tomorrow. They

mostly dry day. Not many thunderstorms around.

The temperatures will keep on soaring, possibly up to 30 degrees

by Wednesday. One Briton a fortnight goes

abroad for an assisted suicide. After an all-day-long debate

in the House of Lords on Friday, a bill to legalise assisted dying

within the UK has cleared The proposed legislation would give

doctors the right to provide the lethal dose to patients judged

to have under six months to live. The man

behind the bill is the former He's here now, but first,

a reminder of his words in the Lords How important is this in terms of

the bill's progress? This is the first time in 80 years that a bill

like this has got through a second reading in the House of Lords. It

goes to the committee stage in the House of Lords and is looked at line

by line. It can complete its progress? Precisely. If Parliament

choose to, they can change the law, but that will only happen if the

Bill completes its House of Lords stages and then the House of Commons

decides to approve it. People changing their mind and so on, the

biggest argument against you is the fear that there will be pressure on

individuals who are ill and dying, perhaps for members of their family

or the charities they have left money to or whatever, to kill

themselves, and the problem is we will never actually know whether

people have been suffering that. It is so internalised. Are there any

safeguards, is there anything you can offer people like Lord Tebbit?

The safeguards are important. In my bill, nobody is entitled to a

prescription which they can take to end their own life in the context of

a terminal illness unless two doctors independently have spoken to

them and are completely satisfied that their decision is their own

decision, not one that is the product of pressure or duress. The

safeguards are really important. That is what I believe the House of

Lords will be focusing on when it goes through its consideration. At

the heart of the bill, the view that people should have the choice about

whether or not they fight for the last few days, the last few weeks,

or they want to choose to end their life is a moment of their own

choosing. Isn't this a gate to a more widely accepted euthanasia, a

slippery slope. Lord Tebbit described this as opening the gates

to help. You start going down this route for the best motives and

society slithers towards a world in which older people are encouraged to

kill themselves? Absolutely not. My view is that this bill, and there

should be no further. There are other countries like the Netherlands

that have euthanasia laws where people who are unbearably suffering

can be killed by doctors, and I am against that. Our model is the state

of Oregon, where this option is only available to people in the last few

weeks or months or days. That law has been there for 17 years and

there has been no slippery slope. What would happen in this country,

if I was in that kind of state and your bill was passed, would I die at

home or in a particular hospice? Would there be somewhere

specifically to go for this purpose? How would it happen? You could die

anywhere, but if the two doctors thought she was somebody who really

had a clear and settled view, then a prescription would be written -- you

were somebody. A health professional would be there to make sure you took

it safely, and if you didn't want to take it, it would be taken away. It

would allow people to die in their own homes rather than going to

Z?rich and dying a cold and lonely death. There would have to be a

doctor there. Borren nurse. Do you think the bill will get to the

Commons and become law? -- or a nurse. I don't know. I hope it does.

This is the opportunity to craft a new bill. There was an impressive

debate last Friday but we have to build on it in Parliament and

produce a law that gives people an option but is safeguarded. For it to

get and progress through the Commons, it needs MPs to sponsor it.

Do you have people prepared to do it? Yes, I do. Richard Ottaway is a

person who has been in the lead on this, but Heidi Alexander is

another, and they have been very supportive of what is happening. But

it is for the business managers, mainly the government whips to get

the right amount of time. This is a matter for individual conscience. Do

you think it will be a party issue? I don't think a political party will

support it as such, but they should be saying that Parliament should

have time to resolve this. It should not be something that is just not

dealt with by Parliament. That is what is important about Friday. It

now has a trajectory that will lead -- lead at least to a decision being

made. Are thank you for joining us this morning.

Whether saving the United Kingdom from terrorism in Spooks or saving

the Hobbit kingdom of Middle Earth, Richard Armitage has had plenty

of experience on screens big and small as an action hero.

His latest role is on stage in London as John Proctor,

the flawed hero of Arthur Miller's best known play, The Crucible.

One review said that this production was so good it hadn't been directed

What keeps you so late? It's almost dark. What are you? I have seen your

powder. You will not deny it. What say you? I say God is dead. Here God

dams our kindness. We will burn together. It has got air

conditioning, the theatre, but you leave drenched in sweat because of

the emotion and power. You are on stage for three and a half hours

each time, eight times a week, which adds up to a whole day on stage

every week. It must be physically shattering. I wish we could do it

all in one day and have the rest of the week off. This is my Sunday

morning voice. It's emotionally draining, and we had our third of

the way through the run but already the show is changing and evolving --

we are a third of the way. Does it make a difference to the audience?

we are a third of the way. Does it Can you feel a different audience

every night? I haven't read the reviews deliberately, but the

audience are living acutely and they gasp and side in

the right places. It is wonderful. This is a play that generations of

schoolchildren had been given and were told it was to do with the red

scare and McCarthyism, but I felt it was not to do with that and it was

about human betrayal and what in the end makes a good human being.

about human betrayal and what in the is really magical about is that

Arthur Miller understood he was writing about something that was

happening to him and he knew it would happen again and again, so

went further back in history and went to Salem, because he knew that

by taking a parable it would translate -- transcend his own time

and he understood that, and it has. There are always witchhunts and it's

always hard to swim against the current, even today. Can I go back

to your television work, because Spooks is what I'm afraid people

know you for, and most British series you have three or four

episodes and they disappear, but Spooks went on for a long time. Was

that a big moment in the development of British drama of that kind? I

feel Spooks is maybe the last of its kind as well. We shot on film, so it

had a particular look. I joined the series in series seven but it always

felt like it was a new event, and what I loved was that it was

slightly ahead of its time in terms of what was happening.

slightly ahead of its time in terms political. There was always a

political line whether it be Isla is all right-wing groups. -- Islam. You

have specialists from MI6 helping you, I believe. Yes, when I went

into the show we had somebody from the CIA and somebody from the

Russian secret service. It was just very interesting to talk to those

two opposite sides. Fascinating. It was a great series. If I may say so,

you don't look like the Hobbit, you look a bit big for one. How did that

happen? It was something I was very surprised about. I questioned Peter

Jackson about it and he was adamant that he wanted big guys to fight

like warriors in his movie. Everybody who I've spoken to who

have been involved in these series talk about it with a romantic

enthusiasm which is interesting. Was it the fact you were stuck in New

Zealand? Everybody seems to have fond memories of the films. It is

absolutely that. You feel like you are making up home movie in Peter

Jackson's back garden. It is a magical place and you feel like you

are entering Middle Earth, and Gandalf rings the cast to his dinner

table and it is wonderful. Briefly going back to the Crucible, it seems

a Shakespearean play as it has the depth and intensity of the best

Shakespeare and it made me wonder if you saw big theatre roles coming to

you after this, or is it so shattering you think that's enough.

If you are asking me today, I would say enough already. But there are a

number of roles I would like to tackle because when you take

yourself to that kind of operatic level of performance and depth of

character it's incredibly satisfying. You think I can do this

again. I didn't know if I could. You can now. Richard Armitage, thank you

for joining us. It's hard to think

of a more time-consuming job in government at the moment than

that of Foreign Secretary. To take over at the Foreign Office

in the past week meant an in-tray the conflicts in Gaza, Syria,

Iraq taking priority. And then on Friday the news

of the missile strike on the Malaysian airliner,

creating an international crisis. The new man in the job, replacing

William Hague, is the former Let's start right off talking about

the Malaysia Airlines disaster. Are you convinced, as we sit here, that

this is a missile fired from the rebel held territory is in eastern

Ukraine? -- territories. We cannot be categorically certain as we don't

have the levels of proof that would stand up in a court room, but all

the evidence coming in points increasingly to that conclusion, a

missile fired from rebel held territory, and the Russians have

influence, if not direct control, over these people. They have been

supplying them and supporting them and providing them with weapons, and

they cannot deny responsibility for the acts that these people are

carrying out. The Sunday Times reported from Ukraine some telephone

transcripts suggesting the missile launcher had been brought in from

Russ, was used, and then taken back across the border -- from Russia. Do

you believe those reports? It's another piece of evidence. Not all

of these bits of evidence are capable of being absolutely

corroborated but there are a growing number of strands of evidence

which, looked at together, in the round, lead the reasonable person to

the unavoidable conclusion that this was a missile fired from rebel held

territory, almost certainly a missile supplied by the Russians.

Does the reasonable, well-informed person believe that could be fired

by the rebels by themselves, or would they have had to have Russian

technical help to hit the airliner? They would have had to have training

to use such a complex piece of equipment, but we can't conclude any

further than that. So as far as you are concerned, this puts Vladimir

Putin in the hairtrigger sides of world opinion, it is his fault. The

eyes of the world are on Vladimir Putin, as you said. What we are

seeing from the Russians is obfuscation and obstruction at the

moment. The Russians warp Robbie have more information about this

incident -- will probably have more information about this incident

because they are close to the Russian border and they have planes

in the area. They are saying nothing. What we need is complete

Russian cooperation. Any evidence that they control needs to be turned

over to the international investigators and they must use

their influence to allow international access to the site to

secure the evidence and secure the respect of the bodies and

possessions of the victims. Most of the bodies have already been removed

and it's clear a lot of the evidence has been removed surreptitiously or

otherwise. It is a completely open side. It's far too late for a proper

investigation into what happened on the ground is the evidence has

already gone, hasn't it? I'm a bit more optimistic than that. There

will be a lot that has been captured photographically, and I am told by

the experts that there will be usable forensic evidence on much of

the wreckage. Clearly every day that goes by, it gets more difficult to

piece together the picture. That is why we need urgent access. That is

why those who don't want a proper investigation are obfuscating. Why

has the site not been secured by people with blueberries? We could

have secured the site and none of this would have happened -- blue

beret is? It has been impossible to get access to the site by the

parties who control it. So you have to negotiate with separatist rebels?

Unless you want to fight your way into their, you have to negotiate

with those on the ground. But there is one party in the world who has

the ability to snap his fingers and it would be done, and that is

Vladimir Putin. All the fine words we hear from Moscow, has not

happened. The Prime Minister today said there had to be action, not

words. What does that actually mean? It will mean further tightening up

of the sanctions we are applying. Russia likes to paint this as a

battle between Russia and the West, Russia and the EU. Now the entire

international community is ranged against Russia. We have been very

forward in leading the argument for sanctions against Russia for the

illegal annexation of Crimea and its destabilisation of Ukraine. Some of

our European allies have been less enthusiastic. You are talking about

Germany. I hope that the shock of this incident will see them more

engaged, more willing to take the actions which are necessary to bring

home to the Russians that when you do this kind of thing, it has

consequences and they are lasting. Do you think we will see sanctions

imposed on Russia by countries in the Middle East, China, the Far

East? Global sanctions rather than just the EU? I think we need to take

this step-by-step. In terms of securing access to the crash site,

ensuring a proper investigation and ensuring the proper treatment of the

bodies, there is a broad international consensus around that.

We are taking the lead with Australia within the UN Security

Council in New York in trying to get a resolution passed and we will try

and do it tomorrow. The Russians have been blocking any statement

coming out of the UN security council, but we will do what we can

tomorrow, and I would expect a very wide degree of consensus for that.

We will then, on Tuesday, at the foreign affairs Council in Brussels,

seek to get our European partners to agree to go further in terms of

sanctions if Russia has not radically changed position. Have you

seen any sign that Angela Merkel has changed her view because she has

been the big block? I will speak to my German counterpart this afternoon

and I will discuss these issues. Beyond sanctions and what is going

on at the UN, anything else the West or that NATO should be doing? Should

we put more troops at the borders of Latvia and Lithuania and republics

and into Poland? It is vital we reassured the eastern members of the

Alliance that we stand behind the security guarantee. Britain has

stepped up its support to that assurance effort, we have got Baltic

air policing missions from Lithuania, we are contributing

troops to exercises in the Baltic states, we will take part in naval

exercises, and that will continue. What about military support for

Ukraine? We have a good relationship with them, we have provided them

with technical support and advice in the past. We will continue to do so.

As a result of this, will we see more of those kind of things? You

can assume that Western countries, including Britain, will want to

provide the government of the Ukraine with all of the support that

we can, without becoming involved ourselves militarily in what is

going on. In addition to what we are doing at the moment? Continuing

support and advice. Let's turn to the conflict going on inside Gaza

between Gaza and Israel. A lot of people look at the numbers of

civilians dying in Gaza, hardly anybody dying in Israel, it is a

one-sided war. Whatever Hamas are doing, the Vic teams are women and

children. You worried about this? The victims are always civilians,

unfortunately. Our hearts go out to the hundreds of victims of this

conflict. What the world is trying to do now, the international

community, is to try to stop the bloodshed, reimpose a cease-fire,

and find a longer term solution. We cannot deal with it by having a

flare-up every two years, hundreds of people killed, another

cease-fire, which then breaks down. We have to get to the underlying

cause. We have to re-establish the role of the Palestinian authority in

the governance of Gaza, get some order out of the chaos. I have

spoken to Mahmoud Abbas yesterday evening and to the Israeli Foreign

Minister. Israel has a right to defend itself against the rocket

attacks, but it must do so in a way that is proportionate, and it must

take all measures necessary to prevent unnecessary loss of civilian

life. To giving that what is happening is proportionate? Hamas

had an opportunity to stop the rocket attacks, and they did not do

so. That is what needs to happen. Israel has a right to defend

itself. Did you think this is proportionate? If the rocket attacks

stopped, there would be no justification for Israeli action.

What I have told both sides, I want an immediate reimposition of the

cease-fire, an immediate reimposition of

something that the Egyptian government seeking to broker,

Mahmoud Bass is in the Gulf, seeking to negotiate with Hamas. We need an

immediate reimposition of the cease-fire, and then we need a

proper discussion about dealing with the underlying grievances. Is what

is happening at the moment proportionate? I have asked the

Israelis to use every effort they can to minimise the loss of civilian

life. We will be looking carefully at what is happening on the ground

to make sure that it is proportionate, that civilian lives

are being protected in a proper way, but Israel has the right to protect

itself, and the best way to avoid Palestinian loss of life in Gaza is

for Hamas to stop firing rockets from Gaza, and in those

circumstances the world would not expect any kind of Israeli action

against Gaza. Is your appointment a victory for Eurosceptics in

government? We are all in government in the same place on Europe, we all

believe that the status quo is not an acceptable way to run Europe in

the future. We are not isolated, as some people wish to paint us, as

being alone. Increasingly, across the EU, people are realising that

Europe needs reform, to deal with the globalisation of the world

economic situation, to deal with the challenge of any Eurozone coexisting

with the non-Eurozone countries in Europe, and to deal with specific

grievances. The last time we spoke, you said that, with an on reform

Europe, you would prefer to leave, and there is an acceptable life

outside. Do you still agree with that? I agree that the status quo is

not acceptable. It is not in Britain's interest. If that is what

we have got, we have got to get out? If we have a Conservative

government after the next election, they will be a referendum in 2017,

so the British people will decide. What I have told my European

colleagues is that if the offer by our European partners is nothing, no

change, no negotiation, I am pretty clear what the answer of the British

people is going to be. Will you be standing with them if they stay no?

There has to be substantive change in Europe that addresses the

concerns that we have, but also addresses the needs of Europe in a

modern world, and then we will put it to the British people. If that

does not happen, we should get out? The British people have the right to

know your views. My job is to pursue the renegotiation. But if it

fails... When we get to the end of the process, and we can see what is

on the table, we will then make our recommendation to the British

people. Two years ago, you thought that we should leave if we do not

get a good renegotiation. Have you changed your mind? Know, if there is

no change at all in the way Europe is governed, in the balance of

competencies between the nation state and the European Union, no

resolution of the challenge of how the Eurozone can coexist with the

non-Eurozone, that is not a Europe that can work for Britain in the

future, so there must be renegotiation. Is there a healthy

and prosperous future for Britain outside? That is the balancing

decision that the British people will have to make. I have no doubt

that Britain gained enormously from being inside the European single

market. What the British people will want to do is look at what is on

offer by way of change in Europe, by way of reform, and look at how far

that takes us, and balance the benefits of being in with the

benefits of being out. For how much longer can use it with Nick Clegg

and others who vehemently disagree? I am not sure that is the case, the

Liberal Democrats recognise there needs to be reformed, they

recognised that in order for the Eurozone to succeed the arrangements

will have to change. What is the single biggest change that is

essential, that you have to show you have got? There has to be a

repatriate powers to the nation state, a recognition that what can

be done at national level should be done at national level, we should

only do things at European level where it is necessary. Secondly,

settling the relationship between the Eurozone and the non-Eurozone

countries in a way that is fair to the non-Eurozone and protect its

interest. And getting out of the European Court of Human Rights? Very

important to the British people. Now over to Naga

for the news headlines. Philip Hammond has called on Russia

to cooperate with the international investigation into the relation

airline disaster. The accused Moscow of obfuscation and obstruction and

said any of obfuscation and obstruction and

reasonable person would conclude that the plane was shot down by a

missile supplied by Russia and fired from rebel held territory in eastern

Ukraine. He said the EU should impose tougher sanctions on Russia

if Vladimir Putin does not radically change his approach.

First, a look at what's coming up immediately after this programme.

More female ministers in the Cabinet, and yes to bishops, but

does gender make a difference? And, as Glasgow prepares, Chris Akabusi

talks about the bigger hurdles in his life. Join us at 10am.

Music festivals are in full swing across the country, and one of

the biggest events of the summer is the Latitude Festival in Suffolk.

The singer and songwriter Lily Allen is one of the headline acts,

and when I spoke to her earlier, she told me what it was

like to be performing again after four years away from the business.

I asked if the break had meant she was returning as a different kind

I draw my inspiration from similar things, it is just that my life is a

bit different. It is still real life stories. Monotonous, boring

musings! But it is delivered in a fun way. In the same way that my old

BASIC was. It is more of the same, but different! You had a real go at

female pop stars exploiting their bodies. Now, I read you are going to

tour with Miley Cyrus, Queen of the Twerk! What is going on! I am not

working with her, I am going on tour with her across America. I am doing

about seven date over 12 days. with her across America. I am doing

is very good at that, I am not so good, but I have given it my best

shot, And we'll hear her in action in just

a moment, playing us out, but first, Next Sunday, the Commonwealth Games

will be in full swing, and one of the highlights,

the men's 100-metre final, will be So, for one week only,

we're on at 8am. That's The Andrew Marr Show, Sunday

27th July at 8am, here on BBC One. # It seems like only yesterday

you were with somebody else. # Soon as it was over, though,

I had claimed you for myself. # Didn't take me long

before I had made myself to yours. # Glad to leave the past behind

and I'm glad to close the door. # So far has been so good,

it seems we stand the test of time. # You never call me ?baby?

but you refer to me as ?mine?. # What I like the best is how

you can keep me on my toes. # Staying home with you is better

than sticking things up my nose. # I had that awful feeling that I

needed help. # My life had lost this feeling,

but you saved me from myself. # As long as I've got you

and we can be together. # And forever just you and me, well,

that's swell. # You sleep with your mouth wide

open and you go to the park alone. # You only cook from frozen but I

don't ever hear you moan. # You let me lie in bed when you're

doing breakfast with the kids. # Landing on my feet with you,

I'm so happy with how we live. # I had that awful feeling that I

needed help. # My life had lost this feeling,

but you saved me from myself. # As long as I've got you

and we can be together. # And forever just you and me,

well, that's swell. Imagine the number of women

this industry supports. This World investigates

the true cost of fashion. It took less than 90 seconds for the

eight-storey building to collapse.