27/07/2014 The Andrew Marr Show

Welcome to the programme at this unusually early hour, it is the last

show before September and games nor any games, we were not quite ready

to bow out, even though these are the dog days, and then goes back to

the Romans, for centuries, this time of year was not associated with

holidays but was a bad time, to quote one old Allman, "the sea

boiled, the wine turned sour, dogs grew mad, causing man, among other

diseases, burning fevers, hysterics and frenzies". -- almanac. Joining

us for the newspapers, Max Hastings, Olly Grender and Dominic Grieve.

Until last week he was a key member of the government. The Parliamentary

answer to the dog days is to shut up shop, it has begun a long summer

break, but international politics blitzed the front pages day after

day because of concerns in Ukraine and in Israel and Palestine. Last

week we had the catwalk reshuffle, so-called, this week, not a policy

or a party relaunched but himself, Ed Miliband has now acknowledge that

for many new seen as a figure of fun, or worse, ridicule, but how can

he shape of the Wallace and Gromit image problems and overturn the dire

personal ratings? This morning we will also be hearing from someone

who has charted the last bloody weeks in Gaza. What now? Bus the

Director of Public Prosecutions, the new face of justice in Britain, is

with us. What is Alison Saunders going to do when witnesses and

victims are so traumatised that they refuse to cooperate, or, as we heard

in the last week, they find the court experience so traumatic, they

end up killing themselves. On a lighter note, some wonderful music

to see us out: An amazingly talented singer, who

starred in the Commonwealth Games opening ceremony. She grew up in a

South African shack, she joins us later in the studio. Should be a

colourful morning. As ever, first to the newsdesk.

Hamas has rejected an offer to extend the ceasefire

in Gaza saying it would only agree if Israeli tanks withdraw

Israel had earlier agreed to a United Nations request for a further

Last night thousands of people gathered in the Israeli

city of Tel Aviv for a peace rally, calling for an end to

The Deputy Prime Minister has called for Russia to be stripped of the

Nick Clegg told the Sunday Times it would be "unthinkable"

for the tournament to be staged in Russia after the loss of

While calling for tougher sanctions against

Russia, Mr Clegg also opposed the opportunity for President Putin "to

exploit football's biggest sporting event to enhance his own status".

The Ministry of Justice says a disturbance at Ranby Prison in

Trouble broke out after more than a hundred prisoners refused to return

to their cells at lunchtime. Police, ambulance and fire crews responded

to the incident which caused "minor damage" but no injuries. The jail

was criticised in a report a few days ago for high levels of

The wreck of the Costa Concordia cruise liner is due to arrive

in the Italian port city of Genoa shortly, after one of the biggest

The vessel has spent four days being towed from the island

of Giglio, where it capsized on rocks two years

Captain Francesco Schettino has denied charges

of multiple manslaughter and abandoning ship, which could see

The Liverpool giants are making their way through the city for the

final time today after delighting crowds over the past few days.

out to watch the massive puppets of a grandmother, a little girl and a

dog to commemorate World War One. When war broke out the city formed

four battalions known as the Liverpool Pals. The giants will sail

The death toll in Gaza has risen inexorably this

week, and although Israel has kept a unilateral ceasefire this

weekend, there seems no real end in sight to the conflict.

Our correspondent Yolande Knell has been in Gaza throughout this latest

flare-up in violence, reporting on many harrowing scenes,

as she told me, just before we came on air this morning:

The worst moments have been after the start of Israel's ground

offensive, the Thursday before last, that began in a terrifying fashion.

We will ordered out of the hotel and then we learned of the mounting

casualty numbers. As someone who regularly comes to Gaza, I have seen

entire neighbourhoods transformed in the past few days, and places where

people live, into piles of rubble. You will also add the hospital, UN

designated area before it was attacked, that leaves the obvious

question, where can civilians run to hide that is safe inside Gaza? Is

there a nowhere at all? Repeatedly, we have found that places that were

deemed to be safe zones where people were told to evacuate to add then

themselves come under fire. This has happened in central Gaza Strip, a

hospital was hit by Israel tank shells, including the intensive care

unit. Other places where people have been displaced, two or three times,

they have gone to United Nations shelters, thinking they were safe.

Those were terrible scenes up in the school, in the North. The playground

was full of shrapnel, bloodstains on the desk. We had been at the school

a few days before. But though it was a tense environment, there were

families staying there, believing they were safe. Clearly, United

Nations officials were in deep shock at what happens. White Israel is

under huge international pressure, they have extended the cease-fire,

but Hamas are still firing rockets. Is there any kind of pressure on

Hamas from Palestinians in Gaza to give this cease-fire a chance to

extend properly? A mass finds itself in an extremely difficult position,

already, there was, in the run-up to this latest flare-up with Israel, a

real kind of deterioration in support for Hamas here in Gaza,

particularly the support of her mass as a government. -- Hamas. Since

they came into power here, people have seen a real tightening of the

border restrictions imposed by Israel since Hamas came into power

seven years ago, tightening by Israel and Egypt. Now it finds

itself in a difficult position when it comes to rocket fire, it has

tried to make more defiant statements, it has fired several

rockets including this morning into Israel. People here crave a moment

of calm, particularly after all of the terrible scenes we have had in

the last few days. We are now coming to the Islamic festival of Eid. It

ends Ramadan, Ramadan has been a terrible time for the people in

Gaza. Has there been any mechanism for pressure on her mass from the

people, if people want something to change, are they able to communicate

this to Hamas? Are Hamas hidden away? It is the armed wing of Hamas

which is making a lot of the decisions here, and of course, they

feel that they also want to avenge what has happened, particularly in

the hours before this latest humanitarian truce was introduced by

Israel, we saw very intense bombing in the run-up to the period. One

thing that has really helped Hamas, the different Palestinian factions,

its rival political factions, have gone behind the core idea it has,

that any final condition for ending this latest period of fighting must

include the easing of these really tight border restrictions imposed on

Gaza. The blockade of Gaza. Speaking with any people here, no matter

their political affiliation, they feel that the price in blood being

paid is so high that that is what they want to see as well. It is very

eerie and quiet in Gaza, is there a sense of people wandering around,

flinching, waiting for attacks to begin. It is extremely quiet, I

cannot give you enough of a sense, for somebody who comes to this city

and sees for somebody who comes to this city

people, full of donkey carts and horses and cars honking. All of the

shops open. It is a bustling overcrowded place. For the last 20

days we have seen it transformed most of the time into this area

place, people are staying in their homes and trying desperately to stay

safe. Thank you for joining us. On the front pages, a couple of big

stories, Vladimir Putin and the follow up from that, families may be

ceiling by the mere Putin over the crash. -- families may be ceiling

Vladimir Putin over the crash. -- suing. These are the newspapers:

it is concluded here, it is difficult to resist the conclusion

that Israel's real objective is to bomb Hamas into surrender. Many

people would hotly dispute that but I find it very interesting that

someone as smart as this man should be taking that view. Akram what it

is the danger for anybody who criticises Israel at this point,

they are immediately accused of anti-Semitism. People have called me

that sort of thing because I wrote something last week, we know that

there is real anti-Semitism out there but simply to say anybody who

criticises Israel is an anti-Semite, it is very disappointing. There is a

piece by Stephen Pollard on anti-Semitism in this country.

They are a target extreme right but often within the

Muslim community, it is deeply damaging. Many members of the Jewish

community in Britain do not approve of Israel's actions in Gaza at all.

It is a very serious issue, and I think there is a perception in many

elements of the Jewish community in Britain that people do not

appreciate just how bad it is getting for them. An attack on a

rabbi in the north, a synagogue smashed up. Bricks through windows,

people hurling abuse, graffiti, we have seen some of that, I have seen

it myself, and the constant sense that if -- the constant sense that

you have got to protect yourself. What has come to the fore as a

result of the cease-fire, the human tragedy, the human story. Here we

have in the Independent, some features about some of the families.

One family in particular, this family here, Hussein, he lost his

wife, his daughter and his wife who was pregnant. What we saw on the

broadcast last night, from this 24-hour cease-fire, is just how some

communities have been laid waste. And then that most devastating

experience of all, which is where we have a doctor saying that quite a

lot of bodies cannot be identified or reclaimed. Despite all of the

carnage, Hamas continue to fire rockets. They said they would

continue to fire rockets. This sense of despair... I have been to Gaza if

you years ago, there is a sense of despair. One often says in

conversation with the Palestinians, you are being hopelessly emotional

and unreasonable. But if you live in the climate of Gaza, it breeds

despair. I have never been to Gaza, I have been to the West Bank, I only

had to see the conditions in the West Bank and the extent to which it

is parcelled up, movement restricted, travelling to or three

miles may take several hours. The conditions there are also present.

The Palestinian Authority in the West Bank has been able to keep the

lid on serious violence against the Israeli occupying force. One wonders

if this is going to snowball again. Horrible thought. The other great

big story of the day, Russia, Russian money in Britain.

A piece in the Observer by Steve Richards. Not just our politics

being doped with foreign money. One thing this episode has forced us to

think about, of course, David Cameron went on television and said

that we'd have got to have sanctions. If we threw out all of

the people that had made their money, through the African klepto

cats -- klepto -- if we throw out everybody like

that it would be an empty town. We want to see somebody get punished,

Putin and those around him. The Russians have come in with money, PR

companies, digging themselves into politics and power structures. A few

years ago, I said to Douglas Hurd, there was gangster -- gangster

culture. He said, don't worry, they will send their sons to Eton. You're

sometime leader Nick Clegg. Yes, what he is doing here, in this

interview in the Sunday Times he has done, he's talking about the need to

strip the right to host the 2018 World Cup. We saw from the Olympics

here, the Commonwealth Games at the moment, these are major pivot of all

fact -- pivotal platforms. Rightly he is saying this should not be

allowed with the way Putin is defying any kind of decent respect

and humanity. About the Ukraine, and the Malaysia Airlines. Meanwhile we

do some proper reporting, we have some of that on Sunday. There is a

piece by Ian Gallagher, they have gone into the eastern Ukraine,

covering what is going on and says what has perhaps become obvious. The

Russians are providing massive levels of support. To the rebels in

the eastern Ukraine. In flagrant breach of international law.

Flagrant breach of what Putin himself has been saying. This is

fuelling the conflict, almost certainly the cause of the shooting

down of the Malaysia Airlines plane and it is reckless. This is all of

peace the behaviour of Putin, with international affairs, where he

thinks their key interests are affected. When I wrote about Putin

and the shooting down of the airliner, I had quite a lot of

e-mails. What is so fat is -- fascinating, you get messages from

all over the world. I got a lot of messages saying why should you

believe this propaganda from London and Washington, they have shown you

are liars? You suddenly realise, we are ready to take our view, and

suddenly you realise there is another world. The West has paid a

very high price for Iraq, about how far we are believed. It upended

domestic politics and leads us to more domestic stories, not hard to

find stories about Boris Johnson. He puts the PM on griddle with

electricity shortage warning. Unbelievably reckless, I am sure you

would disagree, to put the Lib Dems with their obsession with windmills

in charge of energy, we are now threatened with shortfalls. Two

governments in succession, the last Labour government did nothing

serious about energy. When the lights go out we should point the

finger squarely at Downing Street. It is them who failed to adopt

sensible energy policies. While you are pointing at Downing Street you

could have a word with them about the delay and dragging their heels

with regard to windmills which is a cheap and effective way. They are a

loser. They do not command any level of public support at all. We keep on

banging on about them. They are very efficient in generating electricity.

Going back to the reshuffle. Ken Clarke has given an interview.

Classic interview, discursive, Ken at his best, slating what he sees as

the increased manipulation of politics so that campaigning starts

far too early. politics so that campaigning starts

Saying you should get on with your policies, you should not move

esters, there is a digger over Michael Gove. -- not move ministers

and there is a dig. Indicating he will be talking a great deal on the

subjects over the next few months and years. Was it a horrible shock

when you got the call, last week, Eckersley were not an unpopular

minister. -- because you were not an unpopular minister. Not that I was

aware of, you come up to the reshuffle, you wonder what will

happen, but I did not expect I would be moved, it is a bit of a shock.

You are concerned it leaves the way open for ditching the human rights

act. It might do, and if it does I will be sorry and I will be

outspoken on the subject. There are a number of issues, replacing the

human rights act with a British bill of rights is a sensible measure.

Some of the stories running around are about suggestions we should use

Parliament to prevent ourselves from implementing our international legal

obligations, that is legal oh Daley incoherence of a very high order. I

hope that my party is not going down that road. -- legal incoherence. The

reshuffle says otherwise. You are a loss to the human rights cause. I

think this is a clear signal from the PM, sadly, as to which direction

he is taking. Don't you think we will miss Ken Clarke, even though

he's ready to go, the same time he has always said what other people

will not say, few people are willing to speak about the truth. He has

done, and sitting in Cabinet committees he has been enormously

helpful in terms of providing history. Most of the problems we

discussed have already occurred. He was there, he would come up with

that. Common sense. History leads us to the First World War, future

coverage in the newspapers, you have written extensively, you have a

coverage in the newspapers, you have shortly. The Observer have got a big

number in the magazine, the great War through our eyes to commemorate

the centenary of the outbreak. Guardian witness, photos, diaries

and journals of relatives. There will be huge amount over the next

few weeks about the First World War. I remember being teased when I

started writing a book about it, Anthony Beever said it would only

sell half as much as the one on the Second World War, people are not

very interested. I thought people would respond to the centenary and

it's extraordinary. One of the best thing that has happened, these local

celebrations. thing that has happened, these local

all over. One thing I hope comes out of the centenary, that we get away

from the cliches, of the centenary, that we get away

view of the First World War as having been different, one of the

things I try to say to people, the First World War was a ghastly

experience. But all wars are ghastly experiences. It was not uniquely

terrible. If you were in the 30 years War, on the retreat from

Moscow with Napoleon, you would say yes, it was terrible... You are

always tried to get across to people, all wars, people that fought

in Normandy in 1944, far worse things happened in the Second World

War, to the Russians. I hope we will get away, try to look at the

historical perspective. Let's turn to a more modern story. Revenge

pawn. What is that. In a trusting environment with a long-term

partner, or even a short-term partner, you allow them to

photograph you and they publish it. It is an absolutely devastating

thing, we have one star from reality television show, was secretly

filmed. Currently myself and colleagues are attempting to amend

the criminal courts and Justice Bill, to make sure there is a

criminal application when somebody publishes something like this. These

are people who are literally, their lives are completely devastated.

Work colleagues can see them in the most exposed manner, it is a total

offence against them. We must talk about the Commonwealth Games, do we

agree this has been a good games so far for the home teams and Scott

though -- Scotland and Glasgow? I think it has. We saw it with the

Olympics, quite clear that sport brings people together in a way

which is quite removed from expressions of national identity.

Glasgow seems to be doing exactly the same as the Olympics and the

Paralympics from London. Terrific feel good. It is fantastic. The tea

cakes was my favourite moment. There is a lovely piece about the

confidence of Glasgow. It is beautifully done. The irony

everybody is cheering the Queen. In the context. It started with a

kiss, in Scotland on Sunday here. It is lovely. Very interesting, we now

move to the weather, fabulous sunshine in the south-east, it is

still too hot, I could not sleep. For how long will the blistering

summer go on? We need a man with the answers. Hello. For many of us it

has been pretty uncomfortable at night. Much of the country, things

will be cool and fresh through the day, leading into a cool and fresh

night, particularly in the North West. Much of England and Wales

holding onto the sunshine. Feeling quite warm through the afternoon.

This rain piling through western Scotland, Northern Ireland, a keen

breeze, noticeably cooler than the last few days. England and Wales

with sunshine around, showers, thunderstorms across the south-east.

Notice the temperatures around the mid, the high teens in Glasgow. Warm

across central and eastern areas. Towards Sunday evening. Overnight,

we will continue to see the rain spilling across Wales and western

England. Showers across the south-east. Cool and fresh tonight

across northern areas, it could be chilly in the Glens but still quite

warm across the south-east. Monday, a reverse of Fortune, the Northern

areas will see the best of the weather, 22 degrees in Glasgow.

Southern parts of the country will see some heavy showers. That's how

it's looking, Andrew. STUDIO: I would not mind are heavy and slow

moving shower. The director of public prosecutions, has one of the

most important jobs in public life, deciding which case it should be

brought to court, is there sufficient evidence to secure a

conviction and is it in the public interest to pursue cases and are the

harder edged confrontational courts fair on the victims? Alison Saunders

is the new DPP, you for joining us. We had a terrible story this month,

a woman who took an overdose after giving evidence in a historic case

of sex abuse, potentially killed herself because of the experience in

court. We have more and more cases of people coming to court, people

who had traumatising experiences, they go in as witnesses, are they

being treated fairly? There is an issue about whether they are being

treated fairly, that is why I am looking at how we could rebalance

the process so that it is fairer for victims and witnesses. What we are

looking at doing, is to talk to witnesses and victims before they go

into court. Possibly telling the more than we do at the present,

about what they will face in court. It can be cold and shocking.

Absolutely, I have spoken to people who have given evidence, one of them

said she waited a number of months not knowing watching was going to be

asked, and that was worse than going in and being cross-examined. There

is more we can do to tell victims and witnesses what they will face.

Lawyers will save part of the job is to test the defence witnesses as

part of what the court is for. How can you do the rebalancing without

balancing the in favour of the victim and against the accused? It

has to be done within the confines of making sure there is a fair

trial, making sure the defendant can have a good trial. I am not

suggesting we rehearsed the witnesses but we could tell them

what the defence is going to be. We could sell more about what they will

face. -- we could tell them. That they could bring in this person and

so forth? Exactly. The victim had said that the last few months she

was worried about whether she could remember something that happened 20

years ago, whether she could remember those conversations.

America and Australia do something like this, I am not suggesting we go

as far as some of those countries but there is more that we can do. In

your judgement is the law going to be changed? Law does not need to be

changed, I can do some of this through guidance to my prosecutors,

I shall be talking to other people within the justice system to consult

with them, but there is more that we can do within the existing law as it

is. There has been criticism in the newspapers of high-profile

prosecutions of famous people for historic do you think it has gone

too far? Is there an element at which famous elderly people are

being pursued just so the state can show that there is no fear or

favouritism. I do not, and that is not what we are doing, we are not

pursuing particular pipes of people. We are reacting to people who come

forward with complaints. -- types. Yellow no matter who the complaint

is against, no matter who lodges the complaint, the police will

investigate. If there is sufficient evidence, and that has got to be the

first point of call, if there is sufficient evidence then we will

consider whether it is in the public interest to prosecute. None of these

cases are dealt with in a different way to the thousands of others. You

have nothing easy in your in tray, but another problem you have,

particularly in high profile cases, the defence is bringing in very

highly paid top-flight lawyers, at what stage does the states justify

spending huge amounts of money on taking on lawyers to take them on,

do you feel it is an arms war? We look at each case right at the

beginning to decide what kind of level of resource we will put into

it, we will make sure we put the right resource into it. It is

entirely a matter for the defence if they want to bring in people and how

much they will pay. We make sure we are properly resourced to take the

cases. As a prosecutor yourself you are best known for ringing back the

Stephen Lawrence prosecution and getting convictions, probably your

proudest moment. What did you learn? After that it was, never give up!

These cases, even though there may be some years old, you can always

look to bring prosecutions. A lot about how to deal with victims and

witnesses. I spend a lot of time speaking with Stephen Lawrence's

parents during and after the case, that is very important. As

prosecutors we can never underestimate the human impact of

the work that we do, the decisions we do, both on the prosecution which

disses and on the victims. There is a lot of people out there that need

prosecuting, so I shall leave you to get on with it! Bank you very much.

-- thank you very much. Ed Miliband relaunched him

self last week as the candidate for Prime Minister who doesn't care

how he looks. Or at least, doesn't think it's

the most important qualification In a speech in London, he confronted

head-on the rather goofy way, in It's a high risk strategy,

which got mixed reviews. Has the cartoon image stuck,

because he hasn't yet given enough substance,

about what he actually wants to do? That's one of the criticisms I

put to him, when we talked But we started with

a very substantial issue indeed: Has Israel's response to the Hammas

rocket attacks been I am clear that we oppose the

Israeli incursion into Gaza and the loss of life is tragic. I think what

needs to happen now is that we need a cease-fire. We need a proper

cease-fire. Both sides need to draw back. Well beyond the 24-hour I'm a

friend of Israel and the Palestinian people but this is doing no favours

to Israel. The Hammers rocket attacks are totally unjustified and

appalling. Murder of the three Israeli teenagers was terrible. This

is a tragic loss of life. This is going to recruit more people to

Hamas. -- Hamas rocket attacks. We need proper negotiations for a two

state solution. People have thought about this for a long time, it has

never happened, what needs to be done internationally to make it

happen? International community has got to engage even more. John Kerry

has done a good job in seeking to do that, the European Union needs to do

that, now we can see the price of the failure of the peace process and

then not being a peace process. Talking about the leadership issue,

you raised that vividly, you talked about bacon sandwiches and Wallace

and Gromit and all of that. What you did not say, it must hurt, when you

have small boys growing up, it must be pretty horrible. I have got used

to it! That is the best way of putting it. Reason I gave the

speech, I felt that everybody else was having their say about

leadership and indeed my leadership. I felt I needed to have my say. This

goes beyond me, this is about a political culture that I think is

driving people away. Let's be honest, this is a political culture

that fewer and fewer people are engaging with, that they think will

make a difference to their lives. Personally I believe that it is

partly because the presentational, the superficial, the trivial,

sometimes eating a bacon sandwich! That is sometimes what is elevated

above big ideas. And suppose, decency, the things which will

really change people 's lives. That is why I gave this speech. You say

that it is beyond you, but you have got poor leadership ratings and your

enemies are trying to dig into people 's heads an image of you

which is hard to remove. I'm going to show this to you... Excellent!

Thank you very much. You have clearly bitten somebody there. I

didn't realise there was going to be presence! I shall show this to my

children. -- presents. In a different way this is like what was

done with Neil Kinnock when he was the opposition leader. The funny

thing is, I do not worry, a lot of people have said to me over three or

four years that I have been leader, how come you do not do more things

like David Cameron. The photograph with the Huskies in the Arctic

Circle, the wind turbine on the roof. One of the reasons, you said

he's not very good -- you are not very good at it. Personally I do not

care about it that much, communication is important, images

are important, what I do not think it is the most important thing. You

may hate it and think it is trivial and awful but it is the way that

things are done, just as individually in period you had to

make a three-hour speech in front of 300 people, now you have got to use

the Internet and take photo opportunities. It is the duty of a

political leader therefore be better at it than you have been, and it is

not enough to say that you are not good at it, you have got to get good

at it. Others not saying that I will never take photos, that they do

matter... It is more about what we value most, what is really going to

change things for people? The underlying narrative of your speech

was that there is a recognition of an Ed Miliband problem. I would put

it slightly differently! LAUGHTER What I would say is that I think

that this is a job interview, not just an interview by you, running

from Prime Minister is a job interview for one of the most

important jobs in the country. That is a challenge. What I wanted to say

to the public, I am not just going to compete on the terms you are used

to and it is important you understand that about me. I'm going

to compete on terms which are different and which I think are more

important to you, and to your life. And that is the really important

thing. Giving you an example: If you are thinking about people who are

saying, we are on a zero hours contract, cannot afford to bring up

the family. We are worried children will have a worse life than us. I

have ideas to tackle that on minimum wage, on zero hours contract. I

happen to think that is more important than whether I look good

eating a bacon sound weird, and we can agree that I do not. Looking to

conservatives it seems clear that between now and the election, they

have two things. One is the economy getting better and the other is Ed

Miliband as Prime Minister. If you do not kill that, then you are dead

in the water. You have most of the press against you. Do you feel they

are trying to do to you what was done by them to Neil Kinnock in the

right wing press. There is elements of the press that do not like me and

do not like some of the stands the bigger issue here, the Conservatives

want to fight an election on the economy, they want to say that is

fixed, I do not believe that it is. I believe there is deep problems,

and we must talk about them. I'm proud of some of the stands I have

taken about Rupert Murdoch and the energy companies and the banks, and

on Syria. On the issues that count. It is tough to stand up on principle

on those things. Again and again and again you have been turned into a

figure of fun, you laugh about it but coming back, it must make you

angry, it must hurt. It makes me angry because I think the British

people deserve a better debate than this. This is not see list

celebrity, this is not an ugly person 's showbiz contest, this is

about more than that! That is what they used to say about politics. I

have been struck by the fact that Nick Clegg has had a hard time but

nonetheless he has gone on and on, every week, doing phone in shows

with members of the public. He was right to do it, I remember saying to

people that it was a good thing to do. I want to do that, and I will do

that, in terms of radio phone ins, but I want to do something more. We

need a public question Time were regularly the Prime Minister submits

himself or herself to questioning from members of the public in the

Palace of Westminster. On Wednesdays. And why is that

important? Because I want to let the public into politics. That is a

striking idea, exactly how would this work? Resume you would do your

prime ministers questions as Prime Minister, Dell are you saying that

you would guarantee that he would go and answer questions from the public

afterwards? -- are you saying? And you would do it every week? We

definitely want to do it regularly, and I want to make a formal proposal

to the Speaker of the House of Commons. He and I have spoken about

it many times. We should not roll out reform of PMQ 's, but put it

this way: At the moment there is the glass that separates the public in

the gallery from the House of Commons. But there is a gulf which

is not a few inches of glass, it is miles wide, between the type of

politics people want and what we are being offered. As a test for prime

ministers questions to raise the standard, having people in... I am

part of PMQ 's, I take some responsibility, but having people in

asking their own questions. Anyone? It would not just be cheerleading

Labour supporters. -- PM yous. Would somebody be able to come and have a

go at you, if they were very angry with you? Yes, yes! -- PMQs. Go to

Scotland, seeing how people are angry, we did not seek the

referendum, but it has engaged people in politics. Critics will say

that this is an interesting idea but it sounds like another gimmick. It

is serious, it is serious, I want to find ways to change the political

culture, it is not just about the photo opportunities, but it is deep,

and it goes well beyond that. What about the incident with Barack

Obama, there is a lot of pre-briefing about the brush by,

there you were, talking about the Boston red Sox...

there you were, talking about the about the Boston red

there you were, talking about the have loved to have spoken about

there you were, talking about the them. Was that just a piece of PR,

trivial politics them. Was that just a piece of PR,

deprecate. I want to be the promised the country, the relationship with

United States is important. If you think about what we talked about in

the interview, the Middle East, climate change, situation in terms

of Russia, the downing of the Malaysian airline. We talked about

inequality and the challenges the country 's face. If we talk about

those questions, the solutions go through the United States. Working

with United States. -- the challenges that our country 's face.

Working with the president is the sensible thing. After your speech,

there was a question from a constituent in Doncaster who said,

what is the big idea? You gave a very eloquent analysis of the

problem but you did not give your big idea. The big idea is to make

the country work once again for ordinary people and not just a few

people at the top, that is fundamentally what it is about.

Every country around the world faces this challenge of inequality, not

just rich against poor, but whether a few people at the top will be

soaring away from everyone else and the lives of ordinary low and

middle-income people are going to get harder and harder, their

children will have worse prospects than them. That is the generational

challenge that we face and that is the offer, that is what the

programme is all about. Is this happening because international

capitalism, the big corporate powers in the world, the big banks,

international companies, have they become too powerful visit -- in

relation to Parliamentary power. It is partly the power of corporations,

we need to make sure... We need to make sure they pay their taxes, that

they were in the public interest. It is partly about the philosophy of

the country. We have had a philosophy for too long that says

that as long as a few rich people are doing OK the wealth will trickle

down. There is a number of factors. I know that we need to change

things, we have specific ideas to change things. Whether that is

raising the minimum wage, taking on energy prices, rents and housing.

Bread and butter issues of what will change things people. You mentioned

the NHS, for a lot of people NHS is going to be a central issue, and you

have said that you will repeal the recent bill, and you will integrate

care and social services and so forth.

competition aspect because it is a massive problem which is leading to

that plethora of lawyers and fragmentation of the service. We

think we can change things without doing a top-down organisation,

bringing down budgets for health care, this is a key aspect of making

the health service better, what does it mean practically? A single point

of contact, like your GP, if you are elderly, not 20 different to talk

to. There are practical ways to change things, repealing the bill,

without throwing all of the deck chairs in the air and see where they

land. Moving on someone international issue which has been

in the news, frankly, the influence of big Russian money on this

country. We were having a stand-off with President Putin over the

ghastly events in Ukraine and at the same time, a range of oligarchs,

powerful Russians, some of them with close connections to the president

are spending their way into British power. Not into the Labour Party.

Let's go to the big picture. On the issue of the Malaysia Airlines

plane, it's a terrible appalling thing that happened. All of my

sympathy goes to the victims in this country and across the world. We

need action though. We need a European Council, the heads of

government of Europe should be meeting, they should not be leaving

it to the Foreign Minister. We need to raise sanctions on Russia,

individual corporations that have been part of what happened around

these big decisions which have been made, we need action. David Cameron

has questions to answer on the money he's taking from Russian oligarchs

on the bidding for the tennis match, all of this stuff. You cannot stand

of one minute and say this is the biggest issue and we will take the

right action -- stand up. You have to look carefully at who he is

getting money from. Nine months to go, before the election, I you sure

by the time the election happens people will not be laughing about

Wallace, they will be looking at a different Ed Miliband? I am

relishing to go out and say what I want for this country, it is about

sticking to your principles even when it is tough and you have got

big opponents, Rupert Murdoch, or the energy companies. I will talk

about a different type of leadership which has listening as part of

leading. Some critics say all the way through opposition, the Labour

Party has not owned up to the economic mistakes beforehand which

has been a problem. If people start to stop debating the trivialities

and start talking about the reality, it is good. On that point, we said

we got it wrong on the banking crisis, we said we did not regulate

properly. The Conservatives said they should be more loosely

regulated. People want a forward-looking election about the

future, they want to know what will happen in their life in the future.

This is what the focus should be upon. That is what I'm determined it

be on. Thank you for joining us. Mr Miliband in his garden yesterday and

now over to the new head headlines -- news headlines. Ed Miliband says

people should be given a regular opportunity to put Preston is to the

Prime Minister. In minutes of view he said -- to put questions to the

Prime Minister. He said the idea of putting questions from the general

public would open up Westminster politics and he would put forward

detailed proposals. Hamas has rejected an offer to extend the

cease-fire in Gaza saying it would only agree if Israeli tanks withdraw

from the territory. Israel had earlier agreed to a United Nations

the quest for a further 24-hour break in hostilities. Last night

thousands of people gathered in the Israeli city of Tel Aviv for a peace

rally calling for an end to the military campaign in Gaza. We've

just heard the Israeli military has announced it will resume fighting in

Gaza saying Hamas has violated the truce. That's all for now, the next

news on BBC One comes at one o'clock, back to you. STUDIO: When

the South African soprano was growing up outside Cape Town, her

only access to probe was in radio, and yet she fell in love with the

soaring arias she heard and made it to London to study. You may have

caught her before, at the opening ceremony of the Commonwealth Games

in Glasgow, she sang anthems to freedom in honour of Nelson Mandela,

her debut album will be out shortly. She will be sitting at another huge

concert, the Proms in the park, in September. Welcome. Thank you for

coming. You were singing that great song by Hamish Henderson, the

closest thing Scotland has the freedom ballad. You sang it in a

beautiful Scottish accent, very hard? It was hard in the beginning,

especially when I saw it on the page, I thought how will I pronounce

these words quest Mark somebody sang it, and I thought, it is OK, I can

do it my way. You were in a shack, in a shanty town, unusual, somebody

sitting there, listening to opera. What was the radio you were

listening to, it was South Africa classical music? It was South Africa

and classical FM. Your new album is a mixture of African songs, and

highlights from the opera, we can hear them in a moment. How

different. The African songs have a big orchestra, they sound different

from the way we are used to. Actually it is a new version of the

African songs, transformed to a European setting. It was a big

challenge for me. Because usually the songs were folk songs. People

were improvising with their band. Many of them have been made famous

by Miriam McCabe, having the orchestra and singing them in a

classical way, it is very different but I am happy about the end

product. We are going to hear you singing some wonderful music now.

Thank you for coming in, that is all we have got time for. Thank you to

all of my guests, we are off on our summer break but we will be back on

Sunday the seventh of timbre in time -- the 7th of September, in time for

the political referendum with Scotland, until then, May the sun

keeps shining and we leave you with this wonderful music.

APPLAUSE CHEERING