Browse content similar to 28/02/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Leading Tories who want us out of the European Union | :00:00. | :00:09. | |
are now in no doubt about the Prime Minister's anger. | :00:10. | :00:11. | |
He thumped Boris in the Commons and Michael Gove has | :00:12. | :00:14. | |
I'm joined today by Iain Duncan Smith. | :00:15. | :00:44. | |
On the EU, he's one of David Cameron's sternest | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
But we mustn't think of this as simply a Tory Story. | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
Angela Eagle, one of Jeremy Corbyn's big hitters, is strongly pro-EU. | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
Can she really claim the same for her leader? | :00:54. | :01:05. | |
No hit TV series in recent years has been | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
as radical and surprising as prison drama | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
If you know it, you'll know who I mean by Crazy Eyes. | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
Uzo Aduba is now in London in a gritty play and I've been | :01:17. | :01:21. | |
talking to her about among other things Donald Trump. | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
And our review of the papers - hold on, how relevant are papers | :01:27. | :01:33. | |
Buzzfeed is a key source of digital journalism | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
and its political editor Jim Waterson joins us, | :01:37. | :01:38. | |
And yet this week we get a new newspaper - | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
The New Day - it's Editor Alison Phillips is here and waving the flag | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
for what we used to call Fleet Street, Tom Newton Dunn | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
The Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny has admitted that the coalition | :01:51. | :02:01. | |
government has lost the general election. | :02:02. | :02:02. | |
Exit polls indicate that Fine Gael has suffered heavy losses | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
Weeks of negotiations are now expected before a new | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
Our Ireland Correspondent Chris Buckler reports. | :02:10. | :02:16. | |
Across Ireland the Celtic although is still to be completed. While it | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
is unclear who all of the winners are the Irish Prime Minister knows | :02:23. | :02:30. | |
his party Fine Gael is in danger of losing its grip on power. -- across | :02:31. | :02:38. | |
Ireland all of the counting is still to be completed. We don't know the | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
figures for all of the other parties and groupings yet. I need to know | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
that before I decide what is the best thing to do, given my | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
responsibility and duty. There has been a significant protest vote | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
against the two government parties. That has meant success for | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
independent, and the austerity, and colourful candidates. Sinn Fein has | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
made gains, becoming a force in politics in the Republic. One thing | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
is for certain, this change will continue. There isn't a progressive | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
government elected this time. It is only a matter of time before one is. | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
The main opposition party, whose support collapse at the last | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
election, has gone better-than-expected. But with a | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
vote between new rivals, small parties, and independent candidates, | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
it is not clear how a stable government how all will be formed. | :03:30. | :03:31. | |
Hillary Clinton has won a resounding victory in the race to become | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
the Democratic presidential candidate. | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
She easily beat her rival Bernie Sanders in the South Carolina | :03:41. | :03:42. | |
The win puts her in a strong position ahead of this week's | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
Super Tuesday contests, when 11 states declare their results. | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
Reports are coming in of air strikes in northern Syria a day after a deal | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
to halt the fighting came into effect. Several areas near the | :03:59. | :04:01. | |
northern city of Aleppo are said to have been attacked. It is not clear | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
which groups were targeted. Russia had said it would continue to bomb | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
designated terrorist groups during the truce. IS militants and the | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
Al-Qaeda leader linked al-Nusra are not part of the deal. | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
Britain's most senior civil servant is being summoned by MPs to explain | :04:22. | :04:24. | |
why cabinet ministers who oppose EU membership are being denied access | :04:25. | :04:26. | |
Last week, Sir Jeremy Heywood issued guidance saying the Civil Service | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
would support the government in making the case for the UK | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
He's been called to explain this position to the cross-party | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
Stars of the screen will be taking to the red carpet later, | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
This year's ceremony has been over-shadowed by the controversy | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
The film, The Revenant is the front-runner, | :04:48. | :04:58. | |
with nominations in 12 categories, including Leonardo DiCaprio | :04:59. | :05:00. | |
I'll be back with the headlines just before ten o'clock. | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
It may also win longest film category. All British journalists | :05:06. | :05:16. | |
have been beaten about the head to make the referendum interesting and | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
exciting. A good job on the front of The Mail on Sunday. Boris Johnson's | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
sister Rachel telling the story about the conversion, tennis, | :05:25. | :05:31. | |
triples, and British bangers. It is a very good read. And the headline | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
is dramatic. It means Philip Hammond has been marketed as obliging about | :05:38. | :05:46. | |
civil cash. Slightly over the top. Brexit would spark a decade of | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
economic limbo. It sounds rather calm and reassuring, on the front of | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
the Observer. Tory threat to oust the Prime Minister on the front of | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
the Sunday Times. We will be talking about that with Tom Newton Dunn and | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
others. The Sunday Telegraph as Iain Duncan Smith, who will be joining me | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
shortly, and David Cameron, who was here last week, making their case. | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
Europe Europe Europe. We have other things to talk about but we will | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
start with Europe. David Cameron is going to face a challenge, no matter | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
which way the vote goes, on the front of the paper. We have months | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
to go on this. Blue on blue attacks are going to start coming up and up. | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
You are not necessarily going to see them on TV debate each other because | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
they are desperately trying to avoid that. But we have a man who won the | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
election in many respects, the Conservatives. He gave advice, he | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
said don't go about it this way, delay it, trying to rubbish the | :06:46. | :06:48. | |
deal. Quite a theatrical walk-out. When they returned to it -- then a | :06:49. | :06:56. | |
return to it. You will have some people who have been burned badly | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
and they will be looking for somebody to take it out on. How | :07:00. | :07:02. | |
seriously the retake the argument that Cameron will face a challenge? | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
He sat in that seat and said I'm not going anywhere, whether win or lose. | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
You only need 50 MPs to make a challenge. A fuel are disappointed. | :07:15. | :07:20. | |
I think there is a good chance he will get a chance. -- a few. There | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
have been some people who are hanging around on the backbenches, | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
perhaps in Cabinet before, you want him gone. Liam Fox, perhaps. | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
Paterson. Two people already refused to pledge their support if he loses | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
publicly. But it is the way he appears to be going about it. | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
Substance as well as style. Cameron has been telling everyone, no blue | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
on blue, let's be civilised, then he goes straight back out and bashes | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
Boris Johnson. I discovered from David Owen, this is not what Harold | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
Wilson did. He remained above the fray. He was the objective | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
character. Whichever way Britain goes, I will go with him, and | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
allowed his junior ministers to do the fight for him. But there is this | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
sense everybody is rattled already and we have a long way to go. This | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
is the interesting piece on The Mail on Sunday. Philip Hammond, who has | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
come out, and in a state of absolute theory has made a foul-mouthed | :08:23. | :08:28. | |
attack on Bill Cash. It is interesting, this blue on blue | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
attack. And we are all hyping it up a bit. Of course. Onlookers were | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
absolutely shocked, according to this. Which makes you think they | :08:39. | :08:47. | |
should get out more often. But it is this idea of fuelling tension. | :08:48. | :08:53. | |
George Osborne is absolutely fuming that Boris Johnson is putting | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
forward as a James Bond character. Turning to that, an insight into the | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
domestic life of the Johnson family. A rain drenched farmhouse last | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
weekend. A wonderful read by Boris Johnson's sister. Never one to miss | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
an opportunity to write a lot and get a substantial fee. All of the | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
Sunday papers are sprinkled with Boris Johnson camp versions of | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
events. They go along the lines of, this wasn't about a leadership | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
decision, it wasn't cynical... Boris Johnson was filled with a rush of | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
patriotic blood to the head when he heard Emma Thompson, the actress, | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
talking about salt in Britain. CHUCKLES | :09:38. | :09:42. | |
It is more surreal by the second. -- sodden Britain. It is fascinating. | :09:43. | :09:50. | |
She drove down to his house last Saturday when the Cabinet was | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
famously meeting after the Prime Minister came out with a deal. And | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
apparently his mind was flashing like a traffic light. They went and | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
played tennis in the rain to try and calm him down. Then he burned the | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
sausages inside. It goes on. It is lovely. Forget the dilemma on | :10:08. | :10:15. | |
Brexit, there is also the Johnson family, the family is split on it. | :10:16. | :10:26. | |
Boris Johnson's mother is a recruit for Brexit, apparently. Like the | :10:27. | :10:30. | |
nation, his family is splitting. There is an interesting line when | :10:31. | :10:38. | |
she put to him his career. That is about one paragraph in a 2000 word | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
piece. And something else, which isn't a newspaper it is BuzzFeed. My | :10:46. | :10:55. | |
children get their news from BuzzFeed, is it safe? Yes. We have | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
fun stuff. But we have stories. Like the tennis match fixing scandal | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
which we broke last week. It is a good mix of light and shade like any | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
other paper. You are the political correspondent. You work in the lobby | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
alongside your colleagues. It has been a fight to get the authorities | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
in but we are in and established. We sent Emily Ashton to North Wales. A | :11:20. | :11:27. | |
glamorous assignment. It was to the Ukip conference. She found Suzanne | :11:28. | :11:34. | |
Adams telling Ukip activists not to talk about Ukip when trying to get | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
people to vote to leave the U. She said mentioning Nigel Farage is | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
going to stop people wanting to leave. -- to leave the EU. Suzanne | :11:45. | :11:53. | |
is a good egg by Lion Art -- Suzanne is a good egg, but she is known to | :11:54. | :12:01. | |
not really like Nigel Farage. We have four months to go, but the | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
Leave campaign cannot even agree what their message is, and neither | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
can Ukip, it seems. We have buzz cut,, the future of digital | :12:12. | :12:19. | |
journalism. -- we have buzz cut, BuzzFeed, the future of digital | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
journalism. Would it be mad to launch another newspaper? It would, | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
but we are trying to do something different. Tell us about it. We are | :12:28. | :12:35. | |
having balanced opinion. Very much like this show. We won't tell people | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
what to think. We believe those days have gone. We believe people would | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
like to have their own opinions. We thought the same on the independent | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
but it hasn't entirely gone to plan. I don't think the balanced opinion | :12:48. | :12:55. | |
was the problem. And look at the success of the i. Again, we found | :12:56. | :13:03. | |
that one of the things causing people to lapse out of readership | :13:04. | :13:12. | |
was relentless... Sort of... Negativity. And the way, it is quite | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
interesting the way Europe has been done in the newspapers, these | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
personalities. People are interested in the issues, what is the right | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
thing to do? And the name of the newspaper is? New Day, free tomorrow | :13:24. | :13:36. | |
for the first edition. So you are not going to go either side on the | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
referendum. Exactly. But we will give a lot of informed statement so | :13:42. | :13:49. | |
people can make up their own opinions. Let's talk about the other | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
big political story of the week. We have been watching the march of | :13:56. | :14:03. | |
Donald Trump. All the way through people thinking nobody will vote for | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
him over here. But people are. He is now coming up against Marco Rubio in | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
a sensational and very foul-mouthed debate in America. I would just like | :14:13. | :14:18. | |
everybody to see Marco Rubio having a go at Donald Trump after that | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
debate. He inherited $200 million. If he had not he would be selling | :14:24. | :14:34. | |
watches it Times Square -- at. View all her friends thinking about | :14:35. | :14:37. | |
voting for Donald Trump. Friends do not let friends vote for con | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
artists. Quite clear what he thinks. But the march of Donald Trump has | :14:44. | :14:46. | |
taken everybody by surprise, is that fair enough? Absolutely. Remember | :14:47. | :14:53. | |
three weeks ago, Donald Trump was a joke. He would never have come into | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
the top three or four Republican nomination. There is now serious | :14:59. | :15:02. | |
thought he will win the entire thing. Hillary Clinton's acceptance | :15:03. | :15:11. | |
speech last night in South Carolina was America isn't broken. But it | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
doesn't come close. A very good spread in the Sunday Times. All of | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
the facts you need. And Donald Trump with his wife. One of the things | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
that has offended people most is what he said about women. He seems | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
to have a very old-fashioned view of these things. | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
Buzz feed on earth the recordings were he claimed he could have slept | :15:34. | :15:38. | |
with Princess Diana if he had wanted. This is the extent of the | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
guy. Having been to a trump rally, it is like nothing else. In many | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
respects, it is awful, in many respects it is astonishing. There is | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
a show, there is music, there is a guy on stage sending out jokes and | :15:54. | :16:00. | |
the crowd absolutely love it. And is this thing were someone who is | :16:01. | :16:02. | |
regarded as a joke all of a sudden gathers momentum and it is not at | :16:03. | :16:06. | |
all any more. The other huge American story that we cannot ignore | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
is the Oscars because we have a lot of British talent in there. But the | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
big story seems to be the lack of black faces. The macro it has been a | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
huge issue since the nominations came out, the lack of diversity. But | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
there is an interesting piece in the Sunday Times today, an interview | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
with the boss of Sony who had to resign after the leaked e-mails | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
which showed how women actresses like Jennifer Lawrence were getting | :16:32. | :16:34. | |
paid significantly less than men. She has come out and said it is a | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
travesty. There is an amazing statistic, only 3% of directors of | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
movies are women. So there is a huge issue with women as well as with | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
black faces. And talking about the glitz and glamour of the film world, | :16:49. | :16:57. | |
Borat, Borat and Grimsby, a film that is seeking to trash the | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
reputation of one of our finest urban centres. And they are not very | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
happy with either. Sasha Baron Cohen, the star of Borat, of course, | :17:07. | :17:15. | |
and that Mancunian, he apparently was told by Tony Blair that the | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
Prime Minister of Kazakhstan had run Tony Blair personally, saying that | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
it was going to kill their international repetition. Tony Blair | :17:27. | :17:28. | |
turned that down and good on him for doing so. I want to turn full circle | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
back to the EU and the important subject of kettles. A very important | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
subject. There is a preposterous story that went around last week | :17:40. | :17:45. | |
that was sourced to a Ukip MEP who said that the EU was trying to stop | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
us having our toast by removing the power to our appliances. We thought | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
it was' but the Telegraph claims that was truth in it. The EU has | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
shelved regulations to avoid the stories that the British neighbours | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
like to pick up on. What were they trying to achieve, under powering | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
our kettles? They are attacking the key values of our society, | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
breakfast, vacuum cleaners. I sometimes think that Nigel Farage | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
must have sleepers inside the commission. In fairness to the EU, | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
it was an energy-saving idea. It was a green thing, but it comes to a | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
bigger truth across government, which is that almost nothing is | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
happening now. Every major decision on Trident, the obesity strategy, | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
has been suspended, above the one that absolutely has to be done. And | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
this is interesting because it will be rushed through, and by the end of | :18:40. | :18:42. | |
April it could already be done, regardless of the fact that there | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
was a committee saying in April that there were so many concerns. We like | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
to finish these newspaper reviews with a big truth. And to the | :18:51. | :18:51. | |
weather. A bright clear sky yesterday - | :18:52. | :18:53. | |
I went off to do my errands Are we going to shiver | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
and jitter our way into March? We are certainly not springing into | :18:59. | :19:10. | |
March. It is going to be a cold start to the last day of February. | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
Tomorrow morning, and extensive frost. And then we will get it wet | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
and windy spell for Tuesday before things turn colder through the rest | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
of this week. Sunday, for most of us a fine day. It got down to -10 last | :19:22. | :19:27. | |
night across the Glens of Scotland. Temperatures now bouncing up. Not | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
sunny everywhere. It is going to be cloudy at times and there is rather | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
chilly wind coming in across East Anglia and southern England. A few | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
light showers, and maybe the odd shower in Shetland and Orkney. | :19:42. | :19:51. | |
Temperatures getting up to average, 6-9. The breeze will die down | :19:52. | :19:54. | |
overnight and the balloon will take hold of the map once more. Even call | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
it a night across England and Wales, but not quite so cold across | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
Scotland and Northern Ireland. Across the UK, there will be a | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
frost, with -6 possible in rural areas. Take note on of that for | :20:10. | :20:18. | |
Monday morning. Extreme wets to start, across Scotland and Northern | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
Ireland, between five and 8 degrees. Caught on, everybody! | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
I always have a problem with my next guest. | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
Powerful women in trouser suits with whom David Cameron has well, | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
These days, of course, he needs both Angular | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
and Angela Eagle, Labour's most senior, outspoken pro-European | :20:44. | :20:45. | |
There is a certain sense that the Labour Party has not quite got its | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
heart and soul into this campaign and that might be something to do | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
with the fact that the leader is a Eurosceptic. Actually, we're not | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
split down the middle like the Conservative Party on this. I think | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
there are only five members of Parliament who are going to campaign | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
for Out. We are determined and united in our determination to make | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
certain that we get this right and we stay with in the European Union. | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
By the time the 24th of June comes along, we will have made the right | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
decision in the best interests of the country. It is more about | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
passion I am talking about. Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell have voted | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
against virtually every EU related big issue, all the way through back | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
to the 1970s. There is a sense that although they want the party to not | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
split, and people like you have warned them to do the right thing on | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
Europe, as you see it, they do not really care about it. It is not in | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
their blood and they do not feel passionate about it. Jeremy Corbyn | :21:47. | :21:54. | |
is campaigning about Trident, not the EU vote. Actually, he did launch | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
our campaign at the Yorkshire conference yesterday, and I think he | :21:59. | :22:01. | |
recognises, as well as the rest of the party, that it is Labour votes | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
that will keep us in Europe and it is really important for our future | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
as a country that we do not turn our back on the largest single market in | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
the world, where half of our experts go, that we actually understand that | :22:16. | :22:22. | |
workers rights are on the referendum. A lot of workers rights | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
are underpinned by EU regulations. Equal pay, paid holidays, writes for | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
part-time workers, all things that Tory Eurosceptics want to be free | :22:32. | :22:39. | |
of. Continuing with the subject of workers' writes, a lot of your | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
traditional Labour voters are horrified by the levels of | :22:44. | :22:46. | |
immigration that we have seen in this country. Particularly under new | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
Labour. Peter Mandelson saying we virtually went out there and invited | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
people to comment. There was a huge increase in EU workers coming into | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
this country and that has depressed the wages of a lot of people who | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
would normally vote Labour and they are very angry about it. They listen | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
to Nigel Farage more than the Labour Party. I think it is important that | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
we put the Labour case of staying in, and underpinning rights at work, | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
having a more productive economy and greater skills in our economy so | :23:17. | :23:24. | |
people can earn higher wages. A more productive economy is an important | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
part of staying in Europe. Not much good if you have been undercut by a | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
group of migrants in Eastern Europe and you do not have a job in the | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
first place where you are forced to take a job at a lower wage. Of | :23:38. | :23:45. | |
course, but this is about globalisation and the way to resolve | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
that is to make sure we have a higher valued jobs. Part of that is | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
about our integration with the European economy in one of the | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
largest markets in the world. If you look at places like Norway and | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
Switzerland, who are outside the European Union and have greater | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
levels of EU immigration as a percentage of population, it is | :24:08. | :24:13. | |
clear that the EU is not the problem for immigration. We have to make our | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
way in a more interconnected world. And we can only do that by racing to | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
the top rather than racing to the bottom, and I fear that our | :24:23. | :24:24. | |
Conservative government the first that. So what about the number of | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
people coming into this country? Did the Labour Party get on the wrong | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
side of the immigration argument? I remember Barbara Roach saying that | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
it was wrong to send back asylum seekers who had failed because it | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
was too emotional. I think she was trying to make a positive case for | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
the benefits of immigration and we have to remember that people who | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
come into this country to work make our economy bigger and make us more | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
productive. We have to make certain that our own people are skilled to | :24:57. | :25:03. | |
take jobs and opportunities when they are available. And we have to | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
work to have a higher more productive economy. So wages can be | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
high. That is not the record of this government. Productivity has not | :25:12. | :25:14. | |
recovered from the great recession. We have had a sudden dip because of | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
the uncertainty caused by this internal meltdown that we are seeing | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
in the Conservative Party at the moment. Labour people watching this | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
issue will have heard nothing from you at all if they are worried about | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
the level of immigration to this country. We have to have a | :25:30. | :25:36. | |
controlled immigration policy as best we can in a globalised world. | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
We have to make sure that our policies are fair but I would say | :25:41. | :25:42. | |
that the European Union does not have the key to that echoes other | :25:43. | :25:47. | |
countries outside the European Union have similar issues with people on | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
the move. And we have got the problems of asylum seekers, where | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
that is a very different issue, with the collapse of various regimes in | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
the Middle East, causing biblical scenes on our borders. What do you | :26:01. | :26:07. | |
think about the deal that David Cameron has negotiated on benefits? | :26:08. | :26:10. | |
Is it right that people coming to this country should have to work for | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
a certain number of years before they get access to benefits? I think | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
the general view in this country is one I agree with, that people should | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
put into a system before they take out of a system. That has always | :26:23. | :26:25. | |
been the way that our social security system works and it seems | :26:26. | :26:33. | |
there in office. So by and large, you back him? -- and that seems to | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
work. I don't think that the EU deal was anything other than a sideshow, | :26:39. | :26:42. | |
so he could manoeuvre his own party into the place he always wanted it | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
to be. And I think the backlash from Eurosceptics, which has shredded the | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
party down the middle, is the result of that cynical manipulation. But | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
actually the argument for staying in the European Union is still very, | :26:57. | :27:03. | |
very strong, as Alan Johnson has said, regardless of what the Prime | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
Minister has been negotiating. It is the largest single market in the | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
world, we do have our trade with it. And also, this debate, it is a proxy | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
debate about our position in the world. I believe we should be | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
confident about our values and we know that we can project our values | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
in the world if we work through international organisations. And the | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
EU is one such organisation. If we vote for Brexit and then the Scots | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
decide to leave the UK, what kind of country do we have left? That is one | :27:37. | :27:42. | |
of the issues we have the way. There are dangers were coming out, not | :27:43. | :27:47. | |
least the economic shot and the status that you get wild you | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
negotiate your way out of 43 years of economic integration. -- of the | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
economic shock. Surely the Eurosceptics do not believe that | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
they could suddenly turn the clock back to the 1970s and do all the | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
trade deals that they did with the Commonwealth? Their attention as | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
elsewhere now. We have to really make the best of where we are now | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
and be confident that we can get the best out of it. Talking of turning | :28:13. | :28:20. | |
the clock back, there was a huge CND demonstration in London yesterday, | :28:21. | :28:22. | |
addressed by Jeremy Corbyn. If this issue comes up in the House of | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
Commons before the Labour Party changes its view, would you vote | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
with the government on Trident? We are in the middle of a review but my | :28:31. | :28:37. | |
position on this is always clear. If you think about it, we all agree on | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
the Labour Party that we would like to live in a world without nuclear | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
weapons. We want to live in a nuclear free world. We have a | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
disagreement about how best to get there and personally I have always | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
been a multilateralist. I believe that you negotiate these weapons | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
away. I do not think this government has done nearly enough to get | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
multinational -- multilateral talks going and I think they should do | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
more. But we will wait and see what the party discussion on the debate | :29:08. | :29:09. | |
that we have says about that. Last time we were talking about this on | :29:10. | :29:14. | |
the show, I invited you to be warm and generous about Jeremy Corbyn and | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
I think you said words to the effect of, well, we have a leader -- he is | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
the leader we have got. So I will give you another chance. You are so | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
predictable. All I can say is that I think the leadership campaign going | :29:28. | :29:29. | |
on in British politics at the moment is going on in the Conservative | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
Party. It certainly is not going on in the Labour Party. We are getting | :29:34. | :29:39. | |
on with trying to do the work that will create new policies so that we | :29:40. | :29:42. | |
can appeal to the British people. The leadership is not an issue. | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
Carry on being predictable one last time. A lot of people inside the | :29:47. | :29:52. | |
Labour Party say, that Angela Eagle, she is the future. Well, that is | :29:53. | :29:55. | |
very interesting but I am concentrating on my current job. But | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
you would not be horrified? If I get another go at George Osborne at | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
Prime Minister's Questions, I would not mind. You will be joining us | :30:05. | :30:07. | |
again later on, but thank you very much indeed. | :30:08. | :30:09. | |
Of all the big American TV shows that dominate our screens, | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
Orange Is The New Black has marked itself out as very different. | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
An often shocking, often very funny prison drama with a sensational | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
female cast, it has been laden with awards. | :30:20. | :30:21. | |
The show's most striking character, the inmate Suzanne, known | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
as Crazy Eyes, is played by Uzo Aduba. | :30:25. | :30:26. | |
When we met, she told me about what makes the show unique. | :30:27. | :30:29. | |
And we also talked about her London stage debut - | :30:30. | :30:32. | |
in one of the Twentieth Century's most subversive plays. | :30:33. | :30:39. | |
She is bothering me. And you need to be on your way, because she don't | :30:40. | :30:49. | |
like talking to you, not one bit. Are you kidding me? This is my wife | :30:50. | :30:56. | |
here, so you need to step... I will cut you, I will cut you, don't make | :30:57. | :31:04. | |
me cut you. You don't know me. Orange Is The New Black is unlike | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
anything else on TV, in America and the UK. A virtually entirely female | :31:08. | :31:17. | |
cast, a human in it, it is about homosexuality, race, bringing issues | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
to the mainstream which rarely seen. What we see in Orange Is The New | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
Black is so many different make-ups of people in this world rubbing up | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
against one another. We are telling stories about race, about women, | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
about sexual orientation, we are telling stories about what is | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
gender. We have different ages, different sizes, reflected on our | :31:39. | :31:44. | |
show. And all of those things can coexist. It looks like nothing else | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
we have seen before on TV. Tell us about the play you are in. It is The | :31:49. | :31:56. | |
Maids, directed by Jamie Lloyd, the story about two sisters who are in | :31:57. | :32:03. | |
servitude. And based on their feeling of being oppressed they have | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
decided to plot to kill their mistress so they can be free and | :32:08. | :32:12. | |
live their life to their fullest. It is a psychological thriller. It is | :32:13. | :32:19. | |
very exciting to play. It is about class, passion, murder, is it also | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
about race, the way you are doing it? It is in the sense that it is | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
impossible to ignore the very fact that the two women are black. I | :32:28. | :32:34. | |
think it is impossible to ignore some of the words that are said to | :32:35. | :32:43. | |
them. When you hear the word slays -- slave under the context of myself | :32:44. | :32:51. | |
and my sister. And the fact that it is based in modern America. Those | :32:52. | :33:00. | |
things do not resonate for other actors playing those roles. 1930s, | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
real thing, but it has been reimagined. In a sense you are in a | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
prison. That is right and the prison expands beyond the house in which we | :33:11. | :33:18. | |
are serving. It is the social prison, the status, it is not having | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
the freedom. That is what drives these women to the point of wanting | :33:24. | :33:26. | |
to escape and the only escape they can think of is the murder of their | :33:27. | :33:33. | |
mistress. You are an American, you must be pleased to be over here in | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
the UK, but when you go back to the USA will you be pleased to have | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
Donald Trump as your president? LAUGHTER | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
Is there an answer to that? I think your laughter is the answer. | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
LAUGHTER I have loudly and quite openly | :33:53. | :33:59. | |
expressed my... Candidate I am supporting. Hillary Clinton. I am | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
indeed support of her. Her long-standing history and activism. | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
Quite honestly, her front seat position to the White House. But | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
makes her somebody more than qualified to hold that title. -- | :34:17. | :34:29. | |
that makes her. There are many people who feel they not enough | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
black faces at the Oscars this year, how do you feel about it? The | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
discussion we should have is about the production of work which is | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
all-inclusive. The level of work being produced. That includes people | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
of all walks. I'm interested in having that conversation or question | :34:48. | :34:50. | |
placed back into the hands of those who have the charge to change | :34:51. | :34:57. | |
things. Directors and big producers? Correct. Are you against the idea of | :34:58. | :35:05. | |
protesting? I live in the United States. This is a country which was | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
borne out of rebellion and revolt. CHUCKLES | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
But that is the great freedom we have in the US. I'm not against | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
anybody exploring or exercising that right, because it is that, it is a | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
right. Every person of this world wants to feel like they matter just | :35:25. | :35:31. | |
as much as the next person. I don't think there is anything wrong in | :35:32. | :35:34. | |
standing up and saying so. That new version of The Maids is at the | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
Trafalgar Studios in London's West End until the 21st of May, well | :35:40. | :35:40. | |
worth it. Iain Duncan Smith, | :35:41. | :35:43. | |
when he was Tory leader, told us that the Conservatives | :35:44. | :35:45. | |
did not want to leave A long time ago, of course, | :35:46. | :35:47. | |
and his own hostility to Brussels has become ever more | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
obvious since then. Unlike Michael Gove | :35:52. | :35:53. | |
or Boris Johnson, David Cameron was never in much doubt that IDS | :35:54. | :35:55. | |
would come out for Brexit. I picked up my paper today and I | :35:56. | :36:05. | |
read you saying, they can sack me, is it going to come to that? Like | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
anything else, I was responding to a question and the answer is my | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
country comes first, always before jobs, careers, anything else, I | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
always said I am here, it is a vocation, not a career. It wasn't an | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
invitation? It is not for me to invite anybody to sack me or not. | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
This is a huge issue. The Prime Minister, to be fair, deserves | :36:30. | :36:34. | |
credit for allowing the Cabinet to disagree and campaign. That is a | :36:35. | :36:37. | |
sense of strength rather than weakness, I think. Let's turn to the | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
issue. The biggest thing people want to know about all of this is our | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
terms of trade if we leave the EU. Are you in favour of us staying | :36:47. | :36:51. | |
inside a single European market? I am in favour of us having a proper | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
arrangement which allows us to access the marketplace as they exist | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
at the moment. That isn't an answer. It is worth remembering that nowhere | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
in the treaties is the single European market in anyway to find. | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
Those who talk about an entity are wrong. There is no entity called the | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
single European market, there is just a series of issues in Europe | :37:14. | :37:20. | |
about trade and relationships. I believe we should be able to arrange | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
our affairs with the EU as the fifth largest economy, such as we would | :37:25. | :37:28. | |
get access to the matters we will refer to as the single European | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
market, and trade and cooperate with them in a reasonable way. But not be | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
bound by a whole series of internal regulations. Because 95% of all | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
business in Britain doesn't trade with the European Union. It has to | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
imbibe all of the regulations which come from the EU, costing them extra | :37:46. | :37:49. | |
money, and real problems about time and concerns about their ability to | :37:50. | :37:55. | |
do revenue because of that. According to the figures, 50% of our | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
trade is with the EU comedy you accept that as a figure? The | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
careful. What we have seen with that percentage is that there is a bunch | :38:04. | :38:10. | |
of trading with that. Example, a company that makes wings for an | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
aircraft that is being exported to Kuwait, that isn't European trade, | :38:15. | :38:16. | |
it is going through the EU and out of it. Nearly 41% of it goes to the | :38:17. | :38:25. | |
European Union. Pretty big. And the amount of trade coming back, | :38:26. | :38:28. | |
according to the ONS figures, from then to us is about 13%. There are | :38:29. | :38:37. | |
debates about that, 13, 16... What about that gap? I don't think it is | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
a gap at all. You have to look at who is trading and why. That | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
percentage coming from the UK is vitally important to the EU because | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
it is a huge element of their trade on manufacturers. Look at Germany, | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
we are Germany's third largest trading partner. We are 1% behind | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
their greatest which is France. France, America, America is their | :39:01. | :39:05. | |
second, and they are not in the single market, not in the EU. We are | :39:06. | :39:11. | |
the third. My point is Germany, selling cars, machine tools, | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
Scandinavia, I was in hospital the other day, I was in an operating | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
theatre there were products in there which were not made in Britain but | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
made in Sweden. They have a requirement to trade with us, a | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
desperate one, and we will do it with them. My original question, the | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
single European market, it may not be an entity. Margaret Thatcher was | :39:33. | :39:42. | |
always in favour of the EU all the way through as Prime Minister and | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
she was very specific about the single European act, and the single | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
European market. She liked the idea. She said, what a prospect that is, a | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
single market without barriers, visible or invisible, giving you | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
direct and unhindered access to the purchasing power of over 300 million | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
of the world's wealthiest and most prosperous people. The number has | :40:07. | :40:09. | |
gone up, of course, but isn't that a fair point? Yes, and I talked to her | :40:10. | :40:16. | |
when I got elected. She also told me that she had been utterly misled | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
about the single European act. She was told it was about the | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
marketplace. But later she realised it was actually about a political | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
union. It is worth knowing something here, I think we always debate the | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
single market, Europe has a distinct desire to have asked trade with them | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
and vice versa. Fact of life. In or out. We will trade with the European | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
Union. But the European Union is not about the trade issue. The European | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
Union was set up by the founding fathers, and important Italian man, | :40:48. | :40:54. | |
an ex-communist, he designed it because he said this is a political | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
project. It is about bringing the nations of Europe closer and closer | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
together to create a place called Europe and the design of it was that | :41:02. | :41:09. | |
politicians who come and go cannot override the decisions of the | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
bureaucracy because otherwise we would never get there. We are out of | :41:13. | :41:20. | |
the close a bit, of course. That is debatable. What is the deal that you | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
think we could realistically negotiate with the rest of the EU | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
once we have left? What is the nature of the deal? We would want | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
them to be able to access our market freely without any special and extra | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
tariffs. We would want access their marketplace. We would also want | :41:42. | :41:44. | |
something else which I think we have never -- that they have never | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
delivered. The market in financial trade is not complete by a long way, | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
it is still highly difficult for British companies come in the | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
financial sector, the trade directly in Germany. All sorts of barriers | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
are put up. Same goes for France. Outside we cannot affect that. Even | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
inside, how many years have we had since the single European act, 30? | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
And we haven't affected that, either. In fact, quite the opposite. | :42:12. | :42:17. | |
New regulations piling in on the city made it more difficult for them | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
to trade with the rest of the world. To be clear, we would get a two-way | :42:21. | :42:27. | |
free-trade deal, it would get us into the single European act, but | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
without free movement of people, and without financial entrance fees. A | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
better deal than any EU country has got, we would get after leaving, why | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
would they give us that? Because the rest of the EU signed up to the | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
political project. For most of the countries of the EU they believe in | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
this political project. We don't. If you go to Europe, and much of my | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
family have been living in Italy, I studied out there, they don't talk | :42:53. | :42:55. | |
about the marketplace. There has never been a debate in those | :42:56. | :43:01. | |
countries about it. They talk about the political project. They talk | :43:02. | :43:07. | |
about Europe and the European Union as being an entity. That being the | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
case, we leave, we slammed the door and their faces, and we say, we want | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
a better deal for us than you have for anybody else. Why would they do | :43:18. | :43:24. | |
that? -- slam. My answer is simple. The PM says there is a challenge to | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
find out what life outside of it would look like, well, we do a deal | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
with the European Union, that is a trade deal, it is about access to | :43:35. | :43:42. | |
our market, access to their markets. We want migration but we wanted as | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
controlled migration so we can cope with it. An optimistic view of what | :43:47. | :43:53. | |
would happen outside the EU. I am an optimist. The UK has faced bigger | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
trials before. It stood alone in war. It rediscovered and defined | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
trade throughout the world. These were British inventions. I say this | :44:04. | :44:09. | |
to those who say they want to remain in, I have never heard such a lot of | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
pessimistic, downsizing of Britain's aspect. Britain is a phenomenal | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
country. The fifth largest in the world. It has stood alone and fought | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
for freedom. It has traded globally. It can yet again be a global trade. | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
Why would we have such a low opinion of the British people that we talk | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
about leaping into the dark, profound shocks, we talk about them | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
not being capable, too small... I have a different view, I believe | :44:38. | :44:41. | |
Britain is a great country. The people are inventive, innovative, | :44:42. | :44:44. | |
and they will find a way to actually have a real deal that gives Britain | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
access to the world and access to the EU. You don't see Cameron as | :44:50. | :44:56. | |
being a patriot. The In campaign's strategy seems to be about it is | :44:57. | :45:03. | |
terrible, hang on... Talking down Britain. Basically saying we are too | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
little and too inconsequential, we cannot do what we want. Why would | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
anybody want to run a country like that? This country is the greatest. | :45:12. | :45:15. | |
Not because it is the biggest and strongest, but because it has the | :45:16. | :45:24. | |
best people. A free-market designed by a Scotsman. Everything was | :45:25. | :45:27. | |
designed by a Scotsman. And I'm proud of that. Out there in the | :45:28. | :45:34. | |
modern world as we live it now, millions, billions of people around | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
the world have mobile phones, good access to technology, they know what | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
life is like in the West, it is much easier than it ever was to travel | :45:43. | :45:46. | |
around the world. Those two things put together mean people in | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
impoverished or dangerous circumstances are not going to move, | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
whether the EU is there or not, there is global migration, in or out | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
of PE you, we will face the same issues, isn't that true? -- of the | :45:59. | :46:01. | |
EU. Of course, but right now we have | :46:02. | :46:10. | |
control over when somebody arrives in the European Union. We also have | :46:11. | :46:13. | |
no control over our borders with those members. Is that true? Let me | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
finish this point because it is important. We have chaos and crisis | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
in the European Union over migration. Even the Schengen | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
Agreement is falling apart. Hungary is putting up barbed wire and | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
Macedonia is refusing to accept anybody from Greece. Hardly the | :46:31. | :46:38. | |
fault. It is a global shift. People say we cannot exist without the | :46:39. | :46:41. | |
European Union but I am saying if this is the future with the European | :46:42. | :46:47. | |
Union, we would be better off saying this is how we are going to cope. | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
This country has accepted refugees down the ages and I am proud of | :46:52. | :46:54. | |
that. And the numbers of those coming from outside the EU have | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
rocketed under this government. She has got that right down from where | :47:00. | :47:02. | |
it was before but the reality is that we cannot control migration | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
from the European Union. If you want to know what the future looks like, | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
and this is the challenge for those who want to vote to remain in, what | :47:11. | :47:15. | |
will it look outside? We will control the numbers that come in and | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
for what reason but if you go and stay in, you have chaos and | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
confusion. You do not know that this is not going to collapse. You do not | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
know that the euro, we do not know whether you're always going to be in | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
two years. But we know where the chaos and confusion is, it is in | :47:34. | :47:40. | |
Calais, in the Jungle. Once we leave the EU, what stops the French | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
saying, OK, all you go -- on you go, all those people, there is no reason | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
for the French anybody else to stop you coming here. What do we do then? | :47:49. | :47:51. | |
This is another great scare story put out by the In people. It is not | :47:52. | :48:00. | |
a scare story. The French interior minister has said as much. The | :48:01. | :48:06. | |
reality is that the French would not have done that deal with as if it | :48:07. | :48:09. | |
did not suit them. Of course it suited them. If you remember, before | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
the deal there were greater numbers sitting at Calais and there was no | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
agreement about processing them in France. It suited the French to get | :48:21. | :48:23. | |
the processing them they are and it has actually meant that it has been | :48:24. | :48:28. | |
better organised than it was before. It is a problem now, because the | :48:29. | :48:35. | |
European borders... Local and national politicians in France have | :48:36. | :48:38. | |
said that if we leave they will simply let people go through and | :48:39. | :48:41. | |
coming to the UK in large numbers. And then what do we do? Do we have a | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
Jungle in Kent? We control it as we have to but that is not going to | :48:48. | :48:50. | |
happen because it does not suit the French. The moment they do that, | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
their numbers will trouble, hanging around in France, in Calais. They | :48:56. | :48:59. | |
know that is to be the case which is why they made the original deal, | :49:00. | :49:02. | |
which was done bilaterally. It had nothing to do with the European | :49:03. | :49:06. | |
Union. How does damage the French if people come straight through? | :49:07. | :49:09. | |
Because it invites more people to come through into France. But they | :49:10. | :49:15. | |
are only passing through. And that is the point, and they know very | :49:16. | :49:19. | |
well that while they are in France, they are doing all sorts of things. | :49:20. | :49:23. | |
But under the new deal, they will be in England rather than France. They | :49:24. | :49:26. | |
will still be where they are, because it suits France under the | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
new deal. My point is, figures crossed that French tomorrow... We | :49:31. | :49:35. | |
have so much to talk about. France tomorrow are saying, go right now, | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
but we are not going to do it. You are unionist. What happens if | :49:42. | :49:45. | |
Scotland leads the UK as a result of the Brexit vote? Are you worried | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
about that? I think you vote for what is in front of you and what is | :49:50. | :49:53. | |
in front of us right now is whether we should remain in the European | :49:54. | :49:55. | |
Union. The reality for Scotland is they have had a referendum and I was | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
passionately for the union, and I believe they voted for that. I think | :50:01. | :50:05. | |
those running around saying that somehow if Britain votes to stay in | :50:06. | :50:09. | |
and Scotland decides they want to go, they have another referendum, I | :50:10. | :50:12. | |
think Scotland does not want another referendum because they are settled. | :50:13. | :50:18. | |
Opinion polls in Scotland now are for leaving the UK. Nicola Sturgeon | :50:19. | :50:22. | |
has complete control of the Scottish legal system and she says it will | :50:23. | :50:25. | |
happen if we have a Brexit. She said it on that sofa, digitally, down the | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
line. And I see no reason to think that it will not happen. It is going | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
to be an emotional decision for people, a visceral decision, and | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
they will be standing in the voting book, thinking, leave the EU and | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
have Scotland goal, it is too much. -- in the voting booth. What about | :50:46. | :50:48. | |
the other way round, if England votes to come out and Scotland votes | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
to remain? It is an absurd concept, England would have do have a | :50:54. | :50:57. | |
referendum? You know this as well as I do, these are politicians trying | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
to use this for their own purposes, for their own short-term narratives. | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
And I say, look, that is what the Nationalists want and they will go | :51:07. | :51:09. | |
on and on about a referendum for years because they never accepted | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
what Alex Salmond said was the decision of a generation. Speaking | :51:16. | :51:20. | |
of people going on and on, you face a situation as a Brexit campaigner | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
for you do not have access to the government papers you would normally | :51:25. | :51:27. | |
have, things you would like to see. Do you think you are fighting on a | :51:28. | :51:33. | |
Fairfield? My view is reasonably simple. -- on a fair field. I do not | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
think that this can apply to us because we are responsible for the | :51:39. | :51:42. | |
department. I will have to work on these proposals if we vote to remain | :51:43. | :51:52. | |
in. We will have to deliver that. And can this be delivered? Is | :51:53. | :51:56. | |
conjugated system of benefits? Is that deliverable by your department? | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
If we are asked to deliver it, I know the department has the skill | :52:03. | :52:06. | |
and the capability to find a way. It is not easy, and it is compensated, | :52:07. | :52:11. | |
and it was not our proposal, but they could deliver it. My sense | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
about this, although it is not as same -- the same as limiting overall | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
migration to the UK, because it does not, I want to remain on this one | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
point which is that I simply say that all of the staff, all of the | :52:24. | :52:27. | |
threats, I am positive about leaving the European Union because instead | :52:28. | :52:30. | |
of those who say it is a leap in the dark, I think it is a stride into | :52:31. | :52:36. | |
the light, about hope and not pessimism. We will talk more about | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
the future in a moment but at the -- but now, over to sally for the | :52:43. | :52:46. | |
headlines. The Work and Pensions Secretary has told this programme | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
that the UK would be able to negotiate a free trade deal with the | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
EU if people vote to leave in the June referendum. Iain Duncan Smith | :52:56. | :52:57. | |
said the European Union was primarily a political project and | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
warned it is heading for chaos and collapse because of the migrant | :53:02. | :53:02. | |
crisis. The Irish Prime Minister Enda Kenny | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
has admitted that the coalition government has lost | :53:07. | :53:08. | |
the general election. Exit polls | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
indicate that Fine Gael have made heavy losses but will | :53:13. | :53:14. | |
remain the largest party. Sinn Fein and the smaller | :53:15. | :53:16. | |
parties have made gains - and weeks of negotiations are now | :53:17. | :53:18. | |
expected before a new administration The next news on BBC1 | :53:19. | :53:21. | |
is at one o'clock. First, a look at what's coming up | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
immediately after this programme. Join us live from Newcastle when we | :53:27. | :53:36. | |
will be asking, does inequality work? And then fair trade, can | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
ethical shopping change the world? And after the Archbishop's call for | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
evangelism, should religions tout for business? See you at ten on BBC | :53:46. | :53:52. | |
One. And as retired and promised, Angela Eagle and Iain Duncan Smith | :53:53. | :53:58. | |
are both here. I did not talk about your future, but you have said that | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
if we stay inside the European Union we are like a ship heading towards | :54:04. | :54:07. | |
the rocks of disaster. How could you possibly clamber aboard that ship | :54:08. | :54:10. | |
and carry on sailing in that direction is the thing goes against | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
you? You cannot really say the David Cameron, I will stay with you after | :54:16. | :54:23. | |
this, can you? That is not up to me. But would you want to? I want to see | :54:24. | :54:29. | |
that Britain does everything they can to avoid it. Do the best with | :54:30. | :54:35. | |
what you have got. I am for Out but if they voted In, we would have | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
responsibility to make further changes. Can I take you up on this | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
idea that those who want to stay in Europe are somehow pessimists? I | :54:45. | :54:50. | |
actually think that this whole issue is a proxy for a debate about our | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
future and we should be confident about our ability to amplify our own | :54:54. | :55:00. | |
influence within the European Union rather than outside of it. I am | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
actually very confident that we have a better presence on the world | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
stage, that we are more prosperous and we have better job prospects and | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
economic prospects, better workers rights, if we stay in the European | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
Union. I am not pessimistic about the future. You are not. And that is | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
more positive than your leader. But I will say nothing more than that. I | :55:27. | :55:34. | |
will simply say... I think my leader is probably far more positive about | :55:35. | :55:40. | |
Europe than you are. And I actually think that he is campaigning to stay | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
in Europe with more positivity than the Prime Minister. I sat with | :55:46. | :55:50. | |
Jeremy Corbyn during the Maastricht debates and I have watched him in | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
debate after debate and I would say that up until the final moment when | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
he sat down with all of you, he was utterly opposed to us staying in and | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
all of a sudden he has changed. That is fine. I will accept the argument. | :56:03. | :56:13. | |
Since we are talking about leaders, there is a lot of bad feeling | :56:14. | :56:20. | |
already reeling around the media. And briefings and so forth. What is | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
your advice to your opponents in this campaign about conducting at | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
the? It is very simple. We agreed at the time. As I said, the Prime | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
Minister deserves some credit because this is a generous offer, to | :56:33. | :56:35. | |
lead cabinet ministers break ranks and debate this big issue. But the | :56:36. | :56:42. | |
general view is, don't play the person, play the ball. And you think | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
the other side have made a few mistakes? I think we should take a | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
deep breath and ask a simple question. It is about Britain, not | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
about us. Does Boris Johnson believe that? What got me excited, during | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
the Olympics I was in the job centre and I would talk to lots of people | :57:03. | :57:06. | |
who have skills, plumbers and electricians. This is about them | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
because they could not get jobs on the Olympic Park because people were | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
coming in from the European Union, setting themselves up and getting | :57:15. | :57:22. | |
jobs. And they undercut those who were British, qualified people. And | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
I am worried for them. It is for them, not for me or the Prime | :57:27. | :57:31. | |
Minister, it is about them. But we have seen the Conservative Party | :57:32. | :57:34. | |
fall apart in mass recriminations within about four days. You are | :57:35. | :57:37. | |
meant to be running the country while this is going on. Look at the | :57:38. | :57:44. | |
newspapers today, it is a farrago of blue on blue attacks, and total | :57:45. | :57:47. | |
incoherence. All sorts of briefings. I have never seen anything like it. | :57:48. | :57:54. | |
You guys are experts on that. Do you think it was a mistake for the Prime | :57:55. | :57:58. | |
Minister to go for Boris Johnson so obviously in PMQs? I will not give | :57:59. | :58:05. | |
advice, and I'm seeing deja vu issues like 25 years ago on | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
Maastricht. But my point is, this is about Britain and the British people | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
want us to conduct this on that basis. It is not about Westminster, | :58:14. | :58:20. | |
it is about them. The Chancellor of the ejector, he was issuing dire | :58:21. | :58:23. | |
warnings about Singapore that he said he was not going to issue. I | :58:24. | :58:27. | |
would like to spend an entire programme on our economic future but | :58:28. | :58:34. | |
I expect we are going to run out of time. The government is a mess. The | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
government is not a mess. And meal will be back with the Sunday | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
Politics within an hour, when he will be talking to Alan Johnston and | :58:43. | :58:45. | |
Michael Howard. -- Andrew Neill. We'll be back next week | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
with the former Bank of England boss Mervyn King and Germany's Finance | :58:49. | :58:50. | |
Minister Wolfgang Schauble | :58:51. | :58:53. |