04/03/2018 The Andrew Marr Show


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04/03/2018

Interviews with key newsmakers and cultural figures, and a look at what is happening in the world this week. Andrew is joined by prime minister Theresa May.


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LineFromTo

Good morning! Just sometimes when

you make a speech, you don't

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actually want a very loud reaction

afterwards. So it was with Theresa

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May and Brexit this week. Cries of

outrage from the Tory critics?

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Barely a cheap. Howls of derision

from Brussels? No, not really. Was

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it that nobody was quite sure what

she meant? Was it simply that

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audience was hypnotised, like the

rest of the country, by the endless

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tumbling snow?

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Later, we'll hear

from the Prime Minister herself

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in her first and only

interview since the speech.

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And we'll get reaction

from Ireland's Foreign Minister

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and Deputy Prime Minister,

Simon Coveney.

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As well as, closer to home,

former Tory leader and keen

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Brexiteer Iain Duncan Smith,

and the prominent Remainer

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and former Labour Cabinet

minister Peter Mandelson.

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And if you're in need

of some musical healing after that,

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playing us out live this morning,

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the Swedish folk band

First Aid Kit.

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# Why do I do this to myself? #

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What are the papers

looking like this morning?

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I'm joined today by the LBC

presenter Iain Dale

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and Helen Lewis, deputy editor

of the New Statesman.

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All that after the news,

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read for us this morning

by Tina Daheley.

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Good morning.

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Donald Trump is threatening

to impose additional taxes

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on cars imported to America

from Europe.

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The US President tweeted,

saying he would "apply a tax"

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to address what he called

a "big trade imbalance".

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The row over tariffs began

on Thursday when Mr Trump announced

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an increase in taxes on steel

and aluminium imports.

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The EU responded by threatening

to increase charges

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on some American products.

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Snow and ice continue

to cause widespread disruption

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across the UK despite

temperatures slowly rising.

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Many rail lines remain blocked,

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and drivers have been warned

to expect delays.

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Two yellow warnings remain

in place, covering much of the UK,

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while 16 flood warnings

have been issued

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for the south-west

and north-east of England.

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MPs have made public

a damning independent review

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given to the board of the

construction giant Carillion,

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four months before it collapsed.

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The report said that the firm had

been "aggressively managed"

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to make its balance sheet

look better than it was.

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The chairman of the Commons Work

and Pensions Committee, Frank Field,

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said the document showed "gross

failings of corporate governance

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and accounting" at the company.

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The Housing Secretary, Sajid Javid,

has hit out at so-called "nimby"

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councils which don't build enough

new homes in their local areas.

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Mr Javid said authorities

in England risk

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losing their planning powers

if they don't comply,

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and that he would be

"breathing down their necks"

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to ensure targets were met.

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The Government will announce

an overhaul of planning rules

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in England tomorrow in an attempt

to increase house-building.

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Polls have opened in Italy

to elect a new government.

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Observers suggest an alliance

of right-wing parties

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organised by the former

Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi

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will emerge as the largest bloc

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but fall short

of a parliamentary majority.

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Pubs in England and Wales

will be able to stay open late

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on the weekend of Prince Harry

and Meghan Markle's wedding.

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The Home Secretary, Amber Rudd,

said bars would be allowed

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to serve until 1am,

rather than 11pm,

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on Friday 18th and

Saturday 19th May.

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That's all from me.

Back to you, Andrew.

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We have just heard that the German

SBD has voted in favour of a grand

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coalition, and therefore, in effect,

Germany does have a government. And

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so to the papers. As usual, the

observer has an interesting story

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about the economic cost of the snow,

£1 billion a day, building sites not

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working, shops empty, a significant

hit on the quarterly figures, they

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say. They have also got one of the

critics of the speech, one of

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relatively few critics of the

Theresa May speech, Michael

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Heseltine writing in the paper as

well. The Mail on Sunday has a

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report about Boris Johnson and dirty

tricks, described by Number Ten as

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an old-fashioned Anglo-Saxon word I

cannot regale you with! The Sunday

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Telegraph has a story about BBC

stars complaining over their taxes.

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These service companies and so

forth. And also a story about the

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abolition of rules when Brexit

happens. And finally, in the Sunday

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Times, a story about internet giants

profiting from pop-up brothels. A

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lot of stories attacking internet

companies these days in the

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newspapers, and inside the paper

Lord Hall of the BBC is joining in,

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talking about social cohesion around

Netflix, Amazon and all that. But

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we're going to start with Theresa

May's big speech, Iain Dale, and

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what is odd is the lack of

front-page stories.

Which means it

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is job done for the Prime Minister.

A couple of editorials in the papers

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are quite revealing, because the

Mail on Sunday, not a huge fan of

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Theresa May normally, they conclude

their editorial with the words, she

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has brought a divided Cabinet

together, as he deserves support so

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the hard work of getting the best

possible deal can begin. The

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observer slightly different, there

is that she will make Britain a

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poorer, meaner place. Well, you

could argue poorer, but I'm not sure

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of the logic around me now. But

there are not huge numbers of Tory

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critics coming out today, even

anonymously.

A big operation by

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Number Ten.

Before the speech, they

got a lot of people onside, Jacob

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Rees-Mogg's reaction was incredibly

positive, which I was surprised

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that, and even Nicky Morgan, one of

the main critics, was in favour. The

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only grandee that the observer can

drag out isn't Michael Heseltine,

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who has been critical, but he is

about the only one.

John Major in

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the Mail on Sunday, he made a very

strong anti-Brexit speech before

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Theresa May, but he's mainly

focusing on the Irish border today.

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A crashingly banal thing, we cannot

take peace for granted, this is

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within the lifetime of people who

were still alive when the problems

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were there. There are two ways of

looking at the speech, either so

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excellent it shut down all possible

criticism, or it kicked the can

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further down the road, and is

therefore put off the arguments

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further. I think there was a slight

element of low expectations, and

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when she started talking about data

protection regulation is, I began to

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question by life choices in joining

political journalism! But there was

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some meat in it, talking about the

agencies we will stay in.

She was

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clear we will not get the same

access to European markets after

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Brexit, so this exact same benefits

phrase has gone, and she was clear

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we will be paying in money, and

there will be lots of areas in which

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the European court will still have

some effect on British life.

In a

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sense, this was the speech she

should have delivered a year ago,

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because a lot of the more hardline

Eurosceptics would not have

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swallowed this, particularly those

things you have just mentioned.

So

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why have they been so quiet this

morning and yesterday? Is it

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because, perhaps, they realise their

best chance of getting Brexit done

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and the deal signed is to keep

Theresa May there, get her to do it,

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and then, after that, they can move

her to one side and put in one of

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them and get the real divergent

spreads it they have wanted?

There

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is something in that.

-- divergences

Brexit.

There are lots of people

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ready and willing to take over, but

no king or queen over the water, as

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there was with Heseltine in Margaret

Thatcher's day. I do not think they

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could come to an agreement on who

the best rival should be.

The speech

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did set out how we would have these

powers but we might not use them

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immediately, so it was an offer to

another Prime Minister pulling us

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further back.

If she is sane, this

is my view, we will not diverged

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very much, you can relax, they now

know this is only as long as she is

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Prime Minister. Prime Minister

Rees-Mogg or Prime Minister Gove

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would take a very different view,

and that will affect their attitude

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to the negotiations. A week is a

long time in politics, and ten days

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ago the summit at checkers happened,

and we were told they had agreed

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there would be regulatory divergent.

When you listened to Theresa May's

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speech, there was not of that,

either it was the Boris Johnson

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briefing immediately after

that, or

Ollie Robinson, the chief Sherpa,

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had influenced her to roll back on

it.

Another big story which directly

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affects this one, Donald Trump and

his blast against the EU and cars,

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quite protectionist blast overnight,

and you have a tweet.

As ever, we

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just comment on his tweets, if the

EU wants to increase their further

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massive tariffs and barriers on US

companies, we will simply add a tax

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on their cars. This is the politics

of the gut, not the politics of the

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brain, and I suppose this is what we

are used to with Donald Trump, but

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having imposed these tariffs on

steel, he is clearly thinking about

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doing it in other areas.

Old you

could play this two ways when it

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comes to Brexit. You could say, what

a crazy time to be trying to do free

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trade deals with China and the US

president being increasingly

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protectionist, or you could say,

better to be outside the EU bloc if

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the Americans are going to treat the

EU this way.

The EU is a big trading

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bloc, and we will necessarily be a

smaller one, but in Jeremy Corbyn's

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speech on Monday, he talked about a

customs union, and he was talking

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about the problems of chlorinated

chicken...

Why are we so obsessed

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about that?

It is horrible, we don't

want to eat it!

What's to be bullied

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in the United States? They won't

even notice the difference.

A strong

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defence of American food!

And other

big story overnight, what the

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Conservatives are doing about

housing. Go back if I had £1 for

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every time the Conservatives had

promised a housing revolution, I

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would be a lot richer than I am now.

They are talking by building a

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corridor between Oxford and

Cambridge, new towns, and they want

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to relax planning rules. The

question is whether they will allow

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councils to build themselves,

whether there is the will to do so,

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and there is a problem with

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and there is a problem with taking

on nimbies, because another word for

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nimbies is Tory voters. Homeowners

largely vote Tory.

Let's talk a bit

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more about culture wars in politics,

Ian has raised the bar when it comes

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to male grooming on this programme

with that jacket!

Very kind, I

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didn't dare wear the trousers! This

is a story about someone who has

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been appointed as a quality is

adviser by the Labour shadow

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qualities minister, and it does look

slightly strange when you look at

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some of the things she has said in

the past, but the Mail on Sunday has

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got hold of some tweet she sent to

friends of the cells in 2010, 2012,

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which look terrible out of context.

We have all done that, so I have got

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a bit of sympathy with her on that

front, but in this interview in the

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Mail on Sunday magazine, she says

this - I practice witchcraft, it is

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something I have always been

attracted to, and I like it because

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it is female centric.

And she also

goes, and I am black, voodoo is more

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my culture than Christianity. And

she says, I don't understand how you

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can be conservative and gay, all

Conservatives are racist. I would

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love to have a meeting with her to

explain how you can be gay and

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Conservative.

I find it a very

worrying story, because it seemed

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she has been appointed purely on the

basis of her identity, which is

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quite offensive to the qualities

agenda. Being a woman does not make

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you an expert on feminism. So it

does feel like a very tokenistic

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appointment.

OK, now, I want to keep

moving to some of the foreign

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stories as well, I'm afraid, a very

big day in foreign news, and I'm

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going to go to Italy next, because

overnight we will get the Italian

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election results, they are voting

today, I think.

Yes.

There is a real

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possibility of the anti-Brussels,

anti-immigration five Star Movement

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beginning to move towards power.

It

is quite difficult to work out

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whether they will be able to get

power, they have always said they

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wouldn't enter into coalitions, but

they have a 31-year-old leader who

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was softening on that a little bit.

The biggest block will be the one

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that is effectively led by Silvio

Berlusconi, but he cannot become

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Prime Minister, for Bongo Bongo Land

-- Bongo Bongo reasons. If the right

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in Italy does as well as everyone

says, effectively, it means that

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Britain will be the only country

where the hard left is really on the

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march. You look across all of

Europe, and it is the right that are

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doing it.

If the Five Star Movement

took power, which is possible, it

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would be a much bigger blow to

Brussels than Brexit. Huge to

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have...

I don't mean to boast

against the relative importance of

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Italy in the European project...

Italy was there at the start.

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Reading about Italian politics can

cheer you up about British politics.

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Let's talk about Chinese politics,

tomorrow the Chinese Communist Party

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is go to tear up the rules about how

long President Xi can carry on being

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president.

This piece in the Sunday

Times makes the point that some of

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the reforms to transition China

towards democracy have been put off,

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because it said that someone could

only be in power for ten years, and

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there is or is it Trump tweet for

something, and private comments from

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Trump saying, wouldn't it be great

if America did this too? We are in

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an age where people are incredibly

authoritarian, Berlusconi is another

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one, they come back like zombies,

they will not leave public life,

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Vladimir Putin switched around

between being Prime Minister and

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present. A return to the age of

strong men in politics.

What fun!

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There has been a lot of discussion

about Cabinet ministers and their

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favourite childhood books, I need to

ask what your favourite book is,

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Ian.

Philip Hammond, the Chancellor,

you would have thought he might have

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used this as an opportunity to

appear a little bit more human -

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1980-4 by George Orwell was his

favourite childhood book! -- 1984.

I

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would recommend the works of Terry

Pratchett!

Thank you both very much

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indeed, and so to the weather, which

as Mauro less elbowed aside the rest

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of the news this week.

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I didn't see much of it myself,

spending most of the week hiding

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in the pub, self-medicating

with cooking whisky.

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But it was really hard trying

to get home afterwards.

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Well, this might infuriate some

of you further north, but it's

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feeling positively spring-like

here in London this morning,

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so over to Chris Fawkes

in the weather studio.

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Not much snow left in the capital,

and it is more what has fallen

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that's causing the problems.

Take

this for example, south Wales

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weather watchers spotted what looks

to be a greater buried in one of the

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snowdrifts and there is more snow to

come today but it won't cause

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significant problems, it's more what

is on the ground. This perhaps

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turning more of a wintry mix across

coastal areas, rain and sleet mixed

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in, where was further south it's

mainly rain showers for south-west

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England. This rain affecting eastern

areas of Kent, Suffolk and Norfolk.

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Overnight

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areas of Kent, Suffolk and Norfolk.

Overnight that area of rain fills

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out into the North Sea before

pushing back into the cold air,

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heading into Scotland. We will see

the rain increasingly turn to snow

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again here. It will be a chilly

night but not as cold as it has been

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in recent nights. Still cold enough

for pockets of frost in rural areas.

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It is more snow that is forecast for

Scotland, particularly in the hills

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on Monday. Rain for south-west

England and with temperatures rising

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the thaw set in place. The beast

from the east is turning less

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beastly but for some of us there is

a bit more snow to come.

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beastly but for some of us there is

a bit more snow to come. That is

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what you call a north-south divide.

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One of the big issues tackled

in Theresa May's speech

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was, of course, the Irish border.

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So what does her solution look

like from the Republic?

0:17:500:17:53

The Tanaiste, Simon Coveney -

Ireland's Deputy Prime Minister

0:17:530:17:55

and Foreign Minister -

joins us now from Cork.

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Welcome. Can I ask you first of all

what you made of the Irish border

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part of Theresa May's speech?

I mean

we certainly welcome the fact that

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she was very definitive in terms of

her continuing commitment to the

0:18:090:18:12

Good Friday Agreement, which of

course is the foundation stone for

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the peace process in Northern

Ireland. We also welcome the fact

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that she renewed her commitment to

the agreement that was made

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politically before Christmas in the

joint paper between the UK and the

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EU, but beyond that she hasn't

really gone into any more detail

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than we have already heard in terms

of how she's going to solve the

0:18:350:18:39

problem of maintaining a largely

invisible border on the island of

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Ireland, which she referred to

essentially in terms of detail was

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the basis of two papers published

last summer which talked about a

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customs union partnership and also

talked about the streamlined customs

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arrangements, those being the two

options she wants to explore

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further. And of course she didn't

refer to the detailed...

She did

0:19:030:19:09

give some detail, she said 80% of

small businesses will be ignored

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completely and the 20% of the really

big companies with very high value

0:19:130:19:16

goods crossing the border can be

dealt with electronically. Doesn't

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that make some kind of sense?

This

is the mistake I think is made in

0:19:200:19:27

Britain all the time, when someone

definitively says something will be

0:19:270:19:29

the case from the British

government, people assume that is

0:19:290:19:35

the negotiated outcome. Of course

it's not. I'm not sure the European

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Union will be able to support a

situation whereby 80% of companies

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that trade north-south and South

north will protect the integrity of

0:19:460:19:52

the EU single market which will be a

big problem for the negotiating

0:19:520:19:57

team. Whilst we will explore and

looked all of the proposed British

0:19:570:20:01

solutions, they are essentially

starting point in negotiations as

0:20:010:20:05

opposed to an end point. Our

responsibility in Ireland is to work

0:20:050:20:11

with Britain... Give me a second,

our responsibility is to work

0:20:110:20:15

positively with Britain to try to

explore solutions but if we cannot

0:20:150:20:19

agree on solutions of course what we

have is the backstop, which is a

0:20:190:20:24

commitment by the British government

to maintain full alignment with the

0:20:240:20:27

rules of the customs union and

single market.

You know that

0:20:270:20:32

backstop is completely unacceptable

to the British government because it

0:20:320:20:34

looks like an attempt by the EU and

by Dublin to effectively appropriate

0:20:340:20:40

Northern Ireland as part of the EU

system. You have suggested that if

0:20:400:20:46

you don't get what you want, it

could be the Irish side that splits

0:20:460:20:50

up the hard border. The British

government have been clear, under no

0:20:500:20:54

circumstances will be put up a hard

border. Are there

0:20:540:21:01

border. Are there circumstances that

Ireland would put up a hard border?

0:21:020:21:05

I haven't said that so don't put

words in my mouth. Theresa May was

0:21:050:21:09

clear the British government

understand how the single market

0:21:090:21:12

works. It was Britain probably more

than any other country that helped

0:21:120:21:17

design the single market in terms of

how it functions today so everybody

0:21:170:21:21

understands it is part of the

negotiation, that this isn't a

0:21:210:21:24

question of either side wanting to

put up orders. If you have to

0:21:240:21:29

protect functioning single market,

the same weight as Britain wants to

0:21:290:21:33

protect its own single market, you

have to understand that if goods

0:21:330:21:37

move from one customs union to

another than there needs to be some

0:21:370:21:41

checks, unless there is some

mechanism that's negotiated and put

0:21:410:21:44

in place that prevents that. The

British government, whether people

0:21:440:21:48

want to accept it or not, committed

clearly in December to end showing

0:21:480:21:53

that if there wasn't a political

agreement on option A or B, then the

0:21:530:22:02

default position which was agreed to

reassure everybody in Northern

0:22:020:22:06

Ireland and people living on both

sides of the border and the many

0:22:060:22:10

companies that

0:22:100:22:16

companies that trade on an

all-Ireland basis,... We

0:22:160:22:27

all-Ireland basis,... We want with

the British negotiators to get a

0:22:280:22:31

better solution that applies to all

of the UK so that Ireland's trade

0:22:310:22:35

with Britain east-west and

north-south can be maintained as it

0:22:350:22:39

is today. It is a 65 billion euros

trade relationship, there are

0:22:390:22:45

200,000 jobs in Ireland dependent on

that, and 40,000 companies in the

0:22:450:22:50

UK.

Another thing Theresa May said

was from now on this very difficult

0:22:500:22:54

issue of the border would be solved

jointly by London, Dublin and

0:22:540:23:01

Brussels, in some kind of tripartite

system where you settle down and try

0:23:010:23:04

to work it out. Is that going to

happen?

We are already talking

0:23:040:23:10

together so the negotiating team and

task force has already mapped out

0:23:100:23:17

areas of cooperation linked to the

Good Friday Agreement and there are

0:23:170:23:21

hundreds of those. I have a very

good relationship with Karen

0:23:210:23:26

Bradley, the Secretary of State for

Northern Ireland, and with many of

0:23:260:23:29

the British Cabinet members, who we

have already met and discussed many

0:23:290:23:33

of these issues with, but the formal

negotiations have to be between the

0:23:330:23:37

British government and the EU as a

whole. Of course there will be a lot

0:23:370:23:42

of Irish import in that but it

doesn't mean these issues will be

0:23:420:23:45

easily solved because they won't.

0:23:450:23:51

easily solved because they won't. It

is a very complex thing for Britain

0:23:540:23:55

to leave the European Union. There

are 45 years of agreements and

0:23:550:23:58

negotiations that are result of UK

membership of the EU and it will not

0:23:580:24:03

be taken apart easily. On top of

that Good Friday Agreement and

0:24:030:24:07

complex and fragile peace process,

this is a significant responsibility

0:24:070:24:11

for the British government and I'm

glad the Prime Minister made that

0:24:110:24:15

clear during her speech. I think

it's important to say we welcome her

0:24:150:24:19

speech by and large. There's a lot

more detail than we have previously

0:24:190:24:23

seen but essentially what she is

outlining is that the British

0:24:230:24:27

approach will be to look for some

kind of hybrid model between the

0:24:270:24:31

kind of FTA the EU has with Canada

today and the kind of market access

0:24:310:24:36

Norway has into the single market

today. Now that we at least know

0:24:360:24:40

that, we can negotiate accordingly.

And it is surely in your interests

0:24:400:24:44

to make sure that kind of deal

happens. Sir John Major is quoted in

0:24:440:24:48

the British press quoting himself

the Irish Central bank saying a

0:24:480:24:56

difficult Brexit deal would cost the

Irish economy 40,000 jobs and over a

0:24:560:25:00

decade shrink the Irish economy by

3% so you have a real stake in this

0:25:000:25:06

game, don't you?

We do. Brexit was

not the choice of the Irish people,

0:25:060:25:12

it was the choice of British people

so there is a responsibility on

0:25:120:25:17

Britain to ensure the impact of

Brexit on its neighbours is also

0:25:170:25:21

managed, but of course, Ireland has

said from the outset here is the

0:25:210:25:27

result of Brexit for us in terms of

what we want is the closest possible

0:25:270:25:31

relationship between Ireland and the

UK and between the EU and the UK. We

0:25:310:25:37

need to be realistic, when a country

leaves the European Union and state

0:25:370:25:41

they will leave the single market

and customs union as well, you

0:25:410:25:45

cannot expect to hold onto all of

the benefits of EU membership.

0:25:450:25:50

Indeed, we are out of time I'm

afraid.

0:25:500:25:56

afraid. Simon Coveney, thank you for

joining us from Cork.

0:25:580:26:01

After Theresa May's speech

at the Mansion House,

0:26:010:26:03

she made her way back

through a blizzard to Downing

0:26:030:26:06

Street, where I sat down

to talk with her about

0:26:060:26:08

it. Most people don't really

follow the Brexit detail -

0:26:080:26:11

I pointed out to her -

0:26:110:26:12

so for non-experts,

what was new in what she was saying?

0:26:120:26:15

Yes, what I was doing in his speech

was setting out an ambitious vision

0:26:150:26:18

of the future economic partnership

that we want the UK to have with

0:26:180:26:21

the European Union once we've left.

0:26:210:26:29

And it was a vision

that was ambitious,

0:26:300:26:31

but it was also practically based,

and therefore a credible vision.

0:26:310:26:34

It goes beyond anything

that the European Union has done

0:26:340:26:37

before in free trade agreements,

because it's very broad,

0:26:370:26:39

so it was covering issues

like industrial goods,

0:26:390:26:41

like cars, but also

financial services,

0:26:410:26:42

energy, transport, law,

science, agriculture, fisheries.

0:26:420:26:43

So it was setting out

that ambitious vision,

0:26:430:26:45

but also speaking to people

here in the UK and saying...

0:26:450:26:50

Quite bluntly, you're quite blunt.

0:26:500:26:52

Well, I was being straight

with people, I think it's important

0:26:520:26:55

to be straight with people.

0:26:550:26:56

But there's also one of the messages

behind the speech, I think,

0:26:560:27:00

was to say to people,

as I think most members

0:27:000:27:05

of the public feel, that the time

for arguing either side

0:27:050:27:07

of the referendum has gone.

0:27:070:27:10

Actually, this was about setting out

an ambition for our future.

0:27:100:27:13

And also saying to the

European Union, the 27 and also

0:27:130:27:17

the European Commission,

we've set out what we want,

0:27:170:27:21

we've set out where we think we can

have this ambitious relationship

0:27:210:27:26

that's good for prosperity on both

sides - let's get on with it.

0:27:260:27:29

And now it's crunch time,

and in the course of the speech,

0:27:290:27:32

I thought you buried a couple

of the famous sayings that have

0:27:320:27:35

dogged the Brexit talks.

0:27:350:27:36

Liam Fox's terribly cheerful

assertion, "This is going to be

0:27:360:27:38

the easiest negotiation

in human history."

0:27:380:27:40

It's not been like that, has it?

0:27:400:27:42

Well, in one sense, we are doing

a very simple thing,

0:27:420:27:44

we are leaving the European Union.

0:27:440:27:47

In another sense, of course,

having been a member

0:27:470:27:49

of the EU for over 40 years,

there is a complexity

0:27:490:27:52

to the relationship that we've

developed, and what I was setting

0:27:520:27:55

out in the speech today was showing

how, in a very practical way,

0:27:550:27:58

we can move forward on parts

of those relationships.

0:27:580:28:02

So for example, if somebody

is building cars here in the UK,

0:28:020:28:06

they're probably using parts that

have come from parts

0:28:060:28:08

of the European Union...

0:28:080:28:10

And they go back and

forth the whole time.

0:28:100:28:15

And I was saying, we recognise that,

because we recognise

0:28:150:28:17

the importance of people's jobs.

0:28:170:28:19

What I set out today was a way

we can continue to trade that

0:28:190:28:22

ensures we maintain those jobs,

maintain that prosperity.

0:28:220:28:24

But it's certainly not easy.

0:28:240:28:26

The other thing that

I thought you buried,

0:28:260:28:28

finally, was that this,

in terms of access to European

0:28:280:28:30

markets, this will deliver the exact

same benefits as we have now,

0:28:300:28:34

which was something that David Davis

said, and then later

0:28:340:28:37

on you rather backed up -

so you've changed your mind on that.

0:28:370:28:40

No, we're very clear that in terms

of the benefit of being able

0:28:400:28:43

to trade with the European Union,

yes, we do want to be able

0:28:430:28:46

to continue to do that.

0:28:460:28:47

But the access won't

be as good, will it?

0:28:470:28:53

Well, there were some areas

where we've looked at the issue

0:28:530:28:56

of the single market,

we're coming out

0:28:560:28:57

of the single market.

0:28:570:28:58

Being a member of the single market

is an intrinsic part

0:28:580:29:01

of being a member of the EU so...

0:29:010:29:03

But you say, "Our access to each

other's markets will be

0:29:030:29:05

less than it is now."

0:29:050:29:08

Yes, and I set out in the speech

also a couple of areas

0:29:080:29:11

where that will be the case.

0:29:110:29:16

Actually, one of them

might be of particular

0:29:160:29:18

interest to you, Andrew,

0:29:180:29:19

because it's about broadcasting,

because there are certain rules that

0:29:190:29:21

follow from being a member

of the EU, and what I said is,

0:29:210:29:24

let's face it, you know,

there are lots of people

0:29:240:29:28

in the member states

of the European Union who actually

0:29:280:29:30

like to switch on and watch the BBC.

0:29:300:29:32

Hear, hear!

0:29:320:29:33

Let's make sure we can

continue to do that.

0:29:330:29:35

Let me therefore move a little bit

away from the BBC and broadcasting

0:29:350:29:39

and ask you about the other big one,

which is the City - and passporting.

0:29:390:29:42

Now, again and again,

Philip Hammond, your Chancellor,

0:29:420:29:44

has said that passporting is really

important to be City,

0:29:440:29:46

it's absolutely crucial,

and that we could not accept a deal

0:29:460:29:49

if we did not have proper

access for the City,

0:29:490:29:52

and yet in his speech,

you effectively bury passporting,

0:29:520:29:54

you say it's not going to happen.

0:29:540:29:55

What I said in the speech

is that we recognise

0:29:550:29:58

that passporting is,

again, part of being a member

0:29:580:30:01

of the single market,

which is part of being

0:30:010:30:03

a member of the EU.

0:30:030:30:04

We're coming out of the EU,

we won't be a member of the single

0:30:040:30:07

market in the future.

0:30:070:30:08

But what we are looking at,

what I set out in the speech

0:30:080:30:11

is a new relationship on financial

services based on this concept

0:30:110:30:14

of mutual recognition,

of agreement on regulations.

0:30:140:30:18

One of the key things in financial

services is the regulatory standards

0:30:180:30:22

that banks and others are abiding

by, cos that's in the interests

0:30:220:30:26

of consumers, the interests

of individuals and businesses.

0:30:260:30:31

And, actually, if we look at the way

we can achieve the ability

0:30:310:30:35

for our banks to still be operating,

still be providing the huge

0:30:350:30:38

financial support that they do

to other countries and business...

0:30:380:30:42

Very important for our economy,

40% of our exports to the EU

0:30:420:30:46

are in services, banking

and financial services.

0:30:460:30:51

A lot of bankers will be

quite horrified

0:30:510:30:53

that passporting

is now officially off the table.

0:30:530:30:55

You've got a new idea -

to put it into the free trade deal.

0:30:550:30:59

How many trade deals have included

financial services in the past?

0:30:590:31:01

Well, there's quite a few

0:31:010:31:03

that have financial services

commitments in them.

0:31:030:31:06

The one that had the most breadth

of financial services in it

0:31:060:31:09

was the trade deal

that the EU were negotiating

0:31:090:31:11

with the United States.

Which failed, yeah.

0:31:110:31:13

For other reasons.

0:31:130:31:15

Financial services are

referenced in, for example,

0:31:150:31:17

the deal with Canada.

0:31:170:31:20

Yes, we want to go further, yes,

but that is a recognition

0:31:200:31:23

of the very important role

that the City of London plays,

0:31:230:31:25

not just for the UK,

but actually for the rest

0:31:250:31:28

of the European Union.

0:31:280:31:30

If you look at the significant sums

of money businesses in, you know,

0:31:300:31:35

the EU 27, in those

countries, actually raise

0:31:350:31:37

through the City of London,

it matters to them as well.

0:31:370:31:41

But if we were to accept

passporting, we'd just be

0:31:410:31:43

a rule taker, we do have to abide

by the rules that were being set

0:31:430:31:47

elsewhere, and given the importance

of financial stability,

0:31:470:31:49

of ensuring the City of London,

we can't just take the same rules

0:31:490:31:52

without any say in them.

0:31:520:31:56

A lot of bankers, and a lot of big

financial services company

0:31:560:31:59

say that without passporting

they will have to move

0:31:590:32:01

the centre of their operations

onto the European continent -

0:32:010:32:04

what is your message to them today?

0:32:040:32:06

My message to them is that

what we are looking to develop

0:32:060:32:09

is a relationship that means

that they can stay here in the UK

0:32:090:32:13

as part of the City of London,

that they will be continuing

0:32:130:32:17

to provide their services

across the European Union,

0:32:170:32:22

but they will know,

given the sums of money involved,

0:32:220:32:25

given the importance of financial

stability, given the risk that,

0:32:250:32:27

actually, the UK bears as a result

of having the City here,

0:32:270:32:30

that it's important that we do

that on the basis

0:32:300:32:32

of recognised regulatory standards,

but we can't just accept rules

0:32:320:32:35

that are made elsewhere

without us having a say in them.

0:32:350:32:41

It's never happened before,

this kind of deal,

0:32:410:32:43

this is a new deal that you're

starting off from now

0:32:430:32:46

to try and negotiate for the first

time, so they're taking a risk

0:32:460:32:49

if they stay here, in their view.

0:32:490:32:51

Can I ask about an area

which is, perhaps, easier?

0:32:510:32:54

Can I ask where regulatory

divergence, doing things

0:32:540:32:55

differently, is going to benefit

Britain and benefit British jobs?

0:32:550:32:58

Where should we look?

0:32:580:33:00

Yes, well, we can look at a number

of areas of where we are aiming

0:33:000:33:03

to do things differently

in the past from the way

0:33:030:33:06

that they have been as a member...

One will do.

0:33:060:33:09

Well, I was just going to come

onto one - don't you worry, Andrew!

0:33:090:33:12

But I wanted also to say that this

is EU of regulations is important,

0:33:120:33:16

because there will be some areas,

actually, where it's important,

0:33:160:33:19

like the car manufacturing

we would talking about,

0:33:190:33:21

where being able to operate

on the same basis is important

0:33:210:33:24

for that business,

that supply chain,

0:33:240:33:26

and the links of the supply chain.

0:33:260:33:28

But if you look at, for example,

fisheries,

0:33:280:33:31

and we're going to come

out of the Common Fisheries Policy.

0:33:310:33:34

If you're going to look

at agriculture, I think there's

0:33:340:33:36

a lot we can be doing there.

0:33:360:33:38

We want to maintain

our high environmental

0:33:380:33:42

and animal welfare standards but,

you know, actually look to say,

0:33:420:33:48

as I put in my speech,

we want a fairer allocation of,

0:33:480:33:51

you know, waters to UK fishermen.

0:33:510:33:52

Agriculture is, I think,

0.7% of the British economy.

0:33:520:33:54

Even if we do things better,

0:33:540:33:56

it's not go to make a huge

difference to the whole country.

0:33:560:33:59

It will to farmers, obviously.

0:33:590:34:01

Let's turn to the big central area,

which is manufacturing and goods,

0:34:010:34:03

and in that, again and again,

in this speech, you have said

0:34:030:34:07

we are going to stay very closely

aligned to EU regulations,

0:34:070:34:10

EU standards going forward.

0:34:100:34:13

For how long would

we remain in line?

0:34:130:34:15

Well, decisions will be

for Parliament to take,

0:34:150:34:17

because people voted for the UK

to take back control

0:34:170:34:19

of its own laws, and so it

will be for Parliament.

0:34:190:34:22

But what I said in the speech is,

and I think this is why I described

0:34:220:34:26

the speech as being practically

based, what I said in the speech

0:34:260:34:29

is if you look at industrial goods,

if you look at manufacturing,

0:34:290:34:32

there are many links

that have been made

0:34:320:34:35

- the supply chains across the UK

and other countries in Europe -

0:34:350:34:38

and what's important is that,

if you're making a car, for example,

0:34:380:34:42

you want to know that

you're making it at a standard

0:34:420:34:45

that you can sell in the UK

and into the European Union.

0:34:450:34:48

So there will be areas

where maintaining those standards...

0:34:480:34:50

Now, we might do it sometimes

in a different way from the EU,

0:34:500:34:56

sometimes it might be exactly

the same, sometimes

0:34:560:34:59

we'll achieve the same outcome

but do it in a different way.

0:34:590:35:02

Isn't this the centre

of the problem, however,

0:35:020:35:05

that you've got, which is that

you want to stay aligned

0:35:050:35:09

in all these regulatory areas,

and you say we're not going to

0:35:090:35:11

have a race to the bottom,

we're going to do things

0:35:110:35:14

at least as well as we do them now,

and in the same way that you do

0:35:140:35:18

them, and presumably in the future,

if they change their laws,

0:35:180:35:23

them, and presumably in the future,

if they change their rules,

0:35:230:35:25

you will change our rules

accordingly in order

0:35:250:35:27

to keep that market access,

but you can't bind your successors?

0:35:270:35:30

No - crucially, Parliament will be

able to take decisions

0:35:300:35:35

about the rules that are set,

so in the circumstances, say,

0:35:350:35:38

in which the EU changed

a particular rule,

0:35:380:35:40

there'd be a decision

for us to take.

0:35:400:35:42

Did we accept it

in the future or not?

0:35:420:35:44

But if we didn't accept it,

there'd be an arbitration mechanism,

0:35:440:35:46

an independent arbitration

mechanism, so people would

0:35:460:35:48

look at it and say,

actually, you know what,

0:35:480:35:50

if the UK doesn't accept that,

does it make any difference

0:35:500:35:53

to the trading relationship?

0:35:530:35:54

And they might say no, it doesn't,

so there's no consequence.

0:35:540:35:57

They might say yes, it does,

and so there would be a consequence.

0:35:570:36:00

So you're saying

we might lose market access -

0:36:000:36:02

the more we diverge, the more market

access we might lose in the future.

0:36:020:36:07

There'd be a decision to be taken,

but the point is it would be

0:36:070:36:11

here in the UK that Parliament,

if you like, the UK people

0:36:110:36:14

through Parliament, would be

taking a decision and balancing

0:36:140:36:16

the interests there between

keeping the same rule

0:36:160:36:19

or changing for the future.

0:36:190:36:21

And, you know, as we look

at markets around the world,

0:36:210:36:25

what we want to do is to ensure

that, yes, we are able to

0:36:250:36:29

trade well with the European Union,

but we can also trade well

0:36:290:36:32

with countries around

the rest of the world.

0:36:320:36:36

If you look at markets elsewhere,

this is very important.

0:36:360:36:41

If you're somebody like James Dyson,

a very keen Brexiteer,

0:36:410:36:44

a great British entrepreneur

and inventor, he's had lots

0:36:440:36:46

and lots of trouble with EU

rules on the energy use

0:36:460:36:49

of vacuum cleaners.

0:36:490:36:52

He thought Brexit was going to let

him leap free of all of this -

0:36:520:36:55

off with the manacles!

0:36:550:36:56

But your vision seems to be

absolutely not that -

0:36:560:36:59

we will stay closely aligned

to those rules.

0:36:590:37:05

A lot of manufacturers,

a lot of pro-Brexit people

0:37:050:37:07

will be very disappointed.

0:37:070:37:08

No, there's a lot of areas

in manufacturing where people

0:37:080:37:10

are actively saying to us

that they want to maintain

0:37:100:37:13

the same standards.

0:37:130:37:14

But what we're doing by coming out

of the European Union

0:37:140:37:17

is giving us the choice.

So there will be some areas...

0:37:170:37:19

In any trade agreement,

when two countries or when the EU

0:37:190:37:22

with another country is sitting down

to say, "These are the terms

0:37:220:37:25

on which we will trade with each

other, sell products to each other,"

0:37:250:37:28

they agree certain rules that

they're going to operate on.

0:37:280:37:30

So there will be commitments

made, probably in areas

0:37:300:37:32

like fair competition -

we believe in fair competition,

0:37:320:37:35

we want to make sure competition

for our businesses in Europe

0:37:350:37:37

is going to be fair in the future.

0:37:370:37:39

But then we also look

at other issues, saying,

0:37:390:37:41

"Where does it make sense

for our businesses,

0:37:410:37:43

for European businesses,

for people and their jobs

0:37:430:37:46

to keep the same standards?"

0:37:460:37:50

"Where is it right for us to say,

actually, we'll have the same

0:37:500:37:53

outcome in standards,

but we might get at it

0:37:530:37:55

in a different way,

achieve it in a different way?"

0:37:550:37:59

"Where actually do we think,

no, we should diverge,

0:37:590:38:01

we should have a difference?"

0:38:010:38:03

This may be getting complicated

for people watching,

0:38:030:38:06

so let me try and sum up

where I think we are.

0:38:060:38:09

There are some areas

where we will lose access,

0:38:090:38:13

and we've talked about passporting.

0:38:130:38:15

There are other areas

where you think diverging

0:38:150:38:17

is going to be very good for

Britain, and you've cited fisheries

0:38:170:38:20

and farming, and there's other

areas where we will stay

0:38:200:38:22

quite closely aligned.

0:38:220:38:24

Manufacturing and cars

in particular, you mentioned.

0:38:240:38:26

So those, as it were,

three different areas.

0:38:260:38:28

That is why the EU talks

about cherry picking.

0:38:280:38:31

No, well, first of all, if I can

just sort of on the three areas,

0:38:310:38:34

actually, we would look

inside each of those areas

0:38:340:38:37

as to what is right for the future.

0:38:370:38:40

And on financial services,

we are looking to ensure

0:38:400:38:42

we get that good trade arrangement.

0:38:420:38:45

We're just doing it

in a different way.

0:38:450:38:48

This is what's important.

0:38:480:38:49

That's the ambition

I was setting out today.

0:38:490:38:52

But as regards to this reference

you've made to cherry picking...

0:38:520:38:55

You gave a very rigorous defence

of cherry picking in your speech,

0:38:550:38:58

you said yes to cherry picking,

lots of cherries,

0:38:580:39:00

cherries all over the place.

0:39:000:39:04

What I said was, if you look

at what Europe does today,

0:39:040:39:07

if you look at the European Union

today, it has different trade

0:39:070:39:12

agreements with different

countries around the world.

0:39:120:39:14

Each of those is different,

so if you're, say, looking

0:39:140:39:17

at what suits your particular

economies and putting that

0:39:170:39:19

into a trade agreement is cherry

picking, then they're cherry

0:39:190:39:21

picking in every trade

agreement they put forward.

0:39:210:39:23

But on this particular issue,

I mean they may be bluffing,

0:39:230:39:26

but at the moment they sound

absolutely steely,

0:39:260:39:28

absolutely unyielding.

0:39:280:39:32

You know all the Barnier

and Tusk and other quotes.

0:39:320:39:35

But forgetting them,

I mean John Major himself has said

0:39:350:39:37

the chances of getting this kind

of deal, the cherry picking kind

0:39:370:39:40

of deal, is somewhere

between zero and zilch.

0:39:400:39:42

This is an ambitious deal,

but what I've put forward

0:39:420:39:44

is credible because it's

based on practicality.

0:39:440:39:46

But it also recognises

what the European Union,

0:39:460:39:49

the 27 themselves said

at the beginning of this

0:39:490:39:52

process when they set guidelines,

because they talked

0:39:520:39:54

about an ambitious and wide-ranging

relationship for the future,

0:39:540:39:57

and that's what I believe

is in the interests of people.

0:39:570:40:02

People often talk about the UK and

the EU and what we are negotiating.

0:40:020:40:06

What lies underneath this

is people and their futures,

0:40:060:40:09

and that's what I was setting out

in my speech.

0:40:090:40:12

An ambitious, credible vision

that is also a vision

0:40:120:40:15

for Britain once we have left

the European Union,

0:40:150:40:17

because Brexit isn't

just an end in itself.

0:40:170:40:21

Actually, it's about the sort

of country we are going

0:40:210:40:24

to be in the future.

0:40:240:40:25

There's been a lot of controversy

about the border issue in Ireland.

0:40:250:40:28

During the referendum campaign,

you said, "If you pulled out

0:40:280:40:31

of the EU and came out of free

movement, then how could

0:40:310:40:34

you have a situation

where there was an open border

0:40:340:40:36

with a country that was in the EU

and had access to free movement?"

0:40:360:40:40

How does your speech

help solve that?

0:40:400:40:42

Well, it sets out some ways,

particularly on the issue

0:40:420:40:45

of customs across the border,

in which we can resolve that.

0:40:450:40:50

I'm pleased to say that

the Taoiseach, when I met him

0:40:500:40:53

recently, has agreed that the UK

and Irish governments

0:40:530:40:55

and the commission can sit down

and look in more detail

0:40:550:40:58

at the proposals

we have put forward.

0:40:580:41:00

What I also set out in my speech,

what we've been talking

0:41:000:41:03

about on regulatory standards,

is also another important element

0:41:030:41:05

of that issue of the movement

of trade across borders.

0:41:050:41:11

But you say very clearly in that

part of the speech that those

0:41:110:41:15

new regulatory standards -

which would remain at least as high

0:41:150:41:19

as the EU's - would constrain our

ability to lower regulatory

0:41:190:41:22

standards for industrial goods,

0:41:220:41:24

so you accept your model

for the Irish border

0:41:240:41:26

does tie the hands of industry

if they want to diverge from the EU?

0:41:260:41:30

I think we're talking about slightly

different elements to this.

0:41:300:41:33

Sorry about this, because it is

a complicated subject,

0:41:330:41:35

but there are various elements

of ensuring that we don't

0:41:350:41:38

have a hard border between

Northern Ireland and Ireland.

0:41:380:41:40

Part of it is the customs

arrangements, part of it is

0:41:400:41:43

the standards we abide by.

0:41:430:41:45

What I'm saying on the standards is

that it will be, we will be looking

0:41:450:41:49

to say where does it make sense,

in a practical sense,

0:41:490:41:53

because it's important for people

0:41:530:41:56

- for their jobs and prosperity,

for our country's prosperity -

0:41:560:41:59

where does it make sense for us

to say actually we will abide

0:41:590:42:02

by these standards?

But don't just...

0:42:020:42:04

Can I just add this point

because it's quite important?

0:42:040:42:06

We talk about EU standards,

but actually often what we are

0:42:060:42:09

talking about is not EU standards,

it's not European standards,

0:42:090:42:12

it's international standards.

0:42:120:42:20

Because many of these

things are developed

0:42:200:42:24

in an international market,

0:42:240:42:25

so we would be ensuring

we are actually meeting standards

0:42:250:42:27

that enable us to trade elsewhere.

0:42:270:42:29

And do you think that the borderline

between Islington and Camden

0:42:290:42:32

is a very useful comparison

of the Irish border?

0:42:320:42:33

I think the Irish border

is something which we

0:42:330:42:36

are all committed.

0:42:360:42:37

We're committed, the Irish

government, all of the parties

0:42:370:42:39

in Northern Ireland, to making sure

there is no hard border

0:42:390:42:41

for the future, and that's why I'm

pleased that with the commission

0:42:410:42:44

and the Irish government,

we will be able to sit down

0:42:440:42:47

and, in a very much more detailed

sense, say what the proposals

0:42:470:42:50

are that we put forward,

how would they work,

0:42:500:42:52

let's see which is the best

option for the future.

0:42:520:42:54

Boris Johnson thinks there might

have to be a hard border.

0:42:540:42:57

No, Boris is absolutely clear

that there won't be a hard border.

0:42:570:43:00

That's what he wrote

in his letter to you.

0:43:000:43:02

He's clear that there

won't be hard border

0:43:020:43:04

between Northern Ireland and

Ireland, and we are working to that.

0:43:040:43:07

We have got proposals as to how

we can achieve that.

0:43:070:43:10

Now we are going to be able to sit

down and talk with others

0:43:100:43:13

about how we do that.

0:43:130:43:14

That's part of my message in this

speech overall was that we have

0:43:140:43:17

set out our ideas for the future,

for this ambitious relationship.

0:43:170:43:23

Let's actually get on and start

the negotiations, start sitting down

0:43:230:43:26

and talking in detail about it.

0:43:260:43:30

We've covered quite a lot

of different areas already,

0:43:300:43:33

but let me ask about

another really important one,

0:43:330:43:35

which is about migration

and free movement of people.

0:43:350:43:39

In the speech, you said,

"UK citizens will still want to work

0:43:390:43:42

and study in EU countries,

just as EU citizens will want

0:43:420:43:44

to do the same here."

0:43:440:43:46

"We are open to discussing how

to facilitate these valuable links."

0:43:460:43:49

What does that mean?

0:43:490:43:51

It means that we will, when we come

out of the European Union, be able

0:43:510:43:54

to set our own immigration rules.

0:43:540:43:56

That was one of the reasons many

people voted to come out

0:43:560:43:59

of the European Union.

0:43:590:44:01

But what we are not going to be

doing is saying that nobody

0:44:010:44:04

from the EU is ever going to be able

to come to the UK.

0:44:040:44:08

So easy movement, perhaps?

0:44:080:44:09

No, that's a phrase that's been used

by the Labour Party, I think,

0:44:090:44:12

to try and fudge their approach

between free movement

0:44:120:44:14

and other sorts of immigration.

0:44:140:44:16

You're trying to fudge it too,

aren't you, from what you said?

0:44:160:44:20

No, the important thing

is we will set of rules

0:44:200:44:23

for who can come into the country.

0:44:230:44:25

That's what many people voted for.

0:44:250:44:27

That was an element for a lot

of people in the reason

0:44:270:44:31

why they voted for Brexit,

but what we are saying is that

0:44:310:44:34

actually we are going to want

to ensure that people from the UK

0:44:340:44:37

can still go abroad to the other 27

members of the EU and vice versa.

0:44:370:44:43

How?

That's what

we will be negotiating.

0:44:430:44:47

We will be setting out

our immigration rules.

0:44:470:44:50

We will negotiate with the EU,

because obviously we want to look

0:44:500:44:54

at what happens to UK citizens

as well as what happens

0:44:540:44:58

to EU citizens.

All right.

0:44:580:45:00

You said, the hard fact is the EU

law and the decisions

0:45:000:45:03

of the European Court of Justice

will continue to affect us,

0:45:030:45:06

and you give lots

of different examples of that.

0:45:060:45:08

Lots of people thought that,

by leaving the EU,

0:45:080:45:10

we were going way away from the ECJ.

0:45:100:45:12

It's going to carry

on being involved deeply

0:45:120:45:14

in British life, is it not?

No, it's not.

0:45:140:45:16

The jurisdiction of

the European Court of Justice

0:45:160:45:18

in the United Kingdom will end.

That is an important part.

0:45:180:45:21

You're right, lots of people

were also very concerned

0:45:210:45:23

when they voted about this issue

of who makes our laws

0:45:230:45:25

and whose courts do people go to.

0:45:250:45:30

The jurisdiction of the European

Court of Justice in the UK will end,

0:45:300:45:35

but there will be some circumstances

in which the ECJ will

0:45:350:45:39

continue to have an effect.

0:45:390:45:43

Let me give you an example,

not from the UK but elsewhere.

0:45:430:45:45

The United States agreed...

I'd prefer one from the UK, really.

0:45:450:45:48

No, this is a practical example

of something that's happened,

0:45:480:45:51

Andrew, which I think helps to show

what I'm talking about.

0:45:510:45:55

The United States made

an agreement with the EU

0:45:550:45:58

about the exchange of data,

sharing of data.

0:45:580:46:01

The European Court of Justice said -

because they determine for the EU

0:46:010:46:04

whether that's lawful -

said it wasn't.

0:46:040:46:09

So it would be the same

for us in lots of ways.

0:46:090:46:12

It affected the overall agreement.

0:46:120:46:14

So that's not saying the ECJ can

reach into the United Kingdom,

0:46:140:46:17

it won't be able to,

but obviously it has a role

0:46:170:46:20

for people who will be living

in the remaining countries

0:46:200:46:22

in the European Union,

and for the governments

0:46:220:46:24

who are making those decisions

in those countries.

0:46:240:46:27

Whenever we finally leave,

we are going to see

0:46:270:46:29

things very, very differently.

0:46:290:46:34

Can you give people a picture of how

different life will be for

0:46:340:46:37

businesspeople once we have left?

0:46:370:46:39

Well, I think the important thing

for businesspeople once we have left

0:46:390:46:42

is that we will be ensuring

that they are able to operate not

0:46:420:46:45

just in a good relationship

with the European Union,

0:46:450:46:47

continuing to trade there,

but actually trading around the rest

0:46:470:46:49

of the world as well.

0:46:490:46:52

But crucially, of course,

it isn't just about Brexit.

0:46:520:46:54

The future for businesses in the UK

is about our industrial strategy,

0:46:540:46:57

the balanced approach we're

taking to our economy.

0:46:570:46:59

Ensuring our young people

have the technical skills

0:46:590:47:01

for the jobs of the future.

0:47:010:47:03

One of the problems we have had over

the last 12 months or so is that

0:47:030:47:07

Brexit has completely swamped

all other political debate.

0:47:070:47:10

You have got a big announcement

on housing, for instance, coming out

0:47:100:47:13

this weekend and a lot of people

look at that and say it's all right,

0:47:130:47:17

it's very interesting but it's

really fiddling at the edges.

0:47:170:47:19

It's not going to solve

the fundamental problem

0:47:190:47:21

we have in this country of not

nearly enough houses.

0:47:210:47:23

Well we do have a real

problem in this country,

0:47:230:47:26

we need to build more homes.

0:47:260:47:27

We need to ensure -

there are too many people in the UK

0:47:270:47:30

today, particularly young people,

who fear that they're never

0:47:300:47:33

going to be able to own a place

of their own.

0:47:330:47:35

What I'm doing on Monday

is setting out how we are

0:47:350:47:38

rewriting the rule book

0:47:380:47:39

in terms of planning

so that we are saying to councils,

0:47:390:47:41

you've got to take local

communities into account,

0:47:410:47:43

you've got to make sure

you have a proper plan

0:47:430:47:46

for your local area.

0:47:460:47:47

If you don't have it,

the Government will intervene.

0:47:470:47:49

We're ensuring that we won't see

so much money being spent

0:47:490:47:52

on expensive consultants by setting

the number of homes on a national

0:47:520:47:55

framework, national calculating

the number of homes needed

0:47:550:47:56

in each area.

0:47:560:47:59

Also, what we as a government are

going to do, is release more public

0:47:590:48:03

sector land for homes and make sure,

actually as we do so,

0:48:030:48:07

some of those homes

0:48:070:48:08

are affordable for key

people like nurses working

0:48:080:48:10

in our public services.

0:48:100:48:13

You are going to face

in the House of Commons quite

0:48:130:48:17

a serious challenge,

as you know, about

0:48:170:48:19

the customs union.

0:48:190:48:21

What happens if the House

of Commons vote down,

0:48:210:48:22

votes through that amendment

on the customs union?

0:48:220:48:24

If the House of Commons tries to tie

your hands, what would you do?

0:48:240:48:28

First of all obviously we will be

having a discussion with members

0:48:280:48:30

in the House of Commons

because what I have set out today,

0:48:300:48:33

in terms of the future customs

arrangement of the EU,

0:48:330:48:36

I think is what most people

actually want to see.

0:48:360:48:38

Because what I think is of concern

for a lot of people is making sure

0:48:380:48:42

we have that trade across the border

that is as frictionless as possible.

0:48:420:48:45

I've put forward proposals

in the customs arrangements that

0:48:450:48:47

I believe will actually...

0:48:470:48:50

They are determined

to vote you down.

0:48:500:48:52

Is this a motion of confidence,

as far as you're concerned?

0:48:520:48:55

If they vote you down, you couldn't

stay as Prime Minister, could you?

0:48:550:48:59

What we're doing in looking

at the customs issue, as we go

0:48:590:49:04

through these various bills

are going through Parliament,

0:49:040:49:06

is saying what's the right customs

arrangement for the UK to have

0:49:060:49:09

with the EU in future that ensures

we can have tariff-free

0:49:090:49:12

and as frictionless trade

as possible across the border?

0:49:120:49:18

We need to do that in any case

but of course we need

0:49:180:49:21

to do that for the border

between Northern

0:49:210:49:23

Ireland and Ireland.

0:49:230:49:24

What I've set out today is a customs

arrangement that achieves that.

0:49:240:49:27

Now I want to get on with discussing

it with the European Commission.

0:49:270:49:30

Very final question.

0:49:300:49:31

Are there any circumstances

in which you walk away

0:49:310:49:33

from these negotiations?

0:49:330:49:35

I've said before that no deal

is better than a bad deal but I'm

0:49:350:49:39

confident we can get a good deal

and get the right deal

0:49:390:49:42

for the British people.

0:49:420:49:43

I'm confident about that

because the EU themselves have said

0:49:430:49:45

they want an ambitious

and wide-ranging relationship

0:49:450:49:47

with us in the future and I'm

confident that if we...

0:49:470:49:50

I set five tests, and if we look

at our future prosperity

0:49:500:49:53

and security in the UK

and in the other 27 countries,

0:49:530:49:56

actually the right deal for us

will be the right deal for them too,

0:49:560:50:00

and it will be the right

deal for our people.

0:50:000:50:02

Prime Minister, thank you very

much for talking to us.

0:50:020:50:04

Thank you.

0:50:040:50:09

Listening to that, the arch

Remainer and former

0:50:090:50:11

Labour Cabinet minister

Lord Mandelson, and the leading

0:50:110:50:12

Brexiteer, one-time Tory

leader, Iain Duncan Smith.

0:50:120:50:20

The week ago, Peter Mandelson, it

looked as if Theresa May was facing

0:50:210:50:25

a serious challenge in the Commons

on the customs union which might

0:50:250:50:28

have blown a hole through her entire

strategy. Has this speech removed

0:50:280:50:35

most of that threat?

No, because

it's raised a whole series of

0:50:350:50:38

questions about how she's going to

arrive at the destination she has

0:50:380:50:42

described and I think she has

described the destination better

0:50:420:50:45

than she's ever done before, but she

posits two leaps of faith about how

0:50:450:50:50

she's going to get there. The

European Union is going to accept

0:50:500:50:55

not only that we will cherry pick

sectors in goods trade but according

0:50:550:51:01

to her interview parts of sectors as

well. I think that's possible, but

0:51:010:51:07

the EU has already said it's not

going to accept that, and the second

0:51:070:51:10

leap of faith is that when it comes

to regulations we are going to look

0:51:100:51:16

for mutual recognition, not

alignment, but mutual recognition

0:51:160:51:19

which we are then going to be free

to diverged from further down the

0:51:190:51:23

course. I don't believe the EU will

accept that.

As a past commissioner

0:51:230:51:29

yourself, when they say we will not

put up with bits, you don't think

0:51:290:51:37

they are bluffing?

They are basing

this on the legal basis of the

0:51:370:51:41

single market, the rules and

established trade policies of the

0:51:410:51:44

European Union and that's why what

Theresa May is doing is trying to

0:51:440:51:49

dance on the head of a pin that

simply doesn't exist.

Sounds very

0:51:490:51:54

painful indeed.

It would be very

painful for the country as a result.

0:51:540:51:59

Iain Duncan Smith, what's gone on

with the Brexiteers after this

0:51:590:52:04

speech? She said we will lose access

to the single market, we will be

0:52:040:52:09

paying in, and there are areas the

European Court of Justice will still

0:52:090:52:14

be effective, and yet no criticism

from your side? Is that because you

0:52:140:52:18

want to get rid of hers so you can

diverged properly in due course?

Far

0:52:180:52:25

too devious. Not at all. I saw the

speech before it was made and I

0:52:250:52:30

reached the conclusion it was a very

good balanced speech. She has

0:52:300:52:35

restated the key elements is that we

are leaving the single market

0:52:350:52:39

customs union, taking back borders

and money. Those are now locked in,

0:52:390:52:43

but the question is around those how

do you adjust your relationship with

0:52:430:52:49

the European Union and what she has

offered I think is common sense and

0:52:490:52:52

practical solutions to some of the

issues they have talked about. Of

0:52:520:52:56

course there will be an area in a

period of time that British industry

0:52:560:53:00

might want to stay, it takes us to

-- longer to get ready for things.

0:53:000:53:09

She's right, a lot of this is

international agreement anyway,

0:53:090:53:13

environmental for example is fourth

international stuff, so not a big

0:53:130:53:18

problem but the key area is

Parliament ultimately decides and UK

0:53:180:53:24

courts don't adjudicate.

Absolutely

right but we will not get "The exact

0:53:240:53:28

same benefits" in terms of market

access as we have now?

We won't, for

0:53:280:53:35

obvious reasons, because we are not

in the single market but does that

0:53:350:53:38

affect your ability to trade and

does it mean you will trade less

0:53:380:53:42

well or will you see your trade

increase? America isn't in the

0:53:420:53:47

single market but they trade with

the European Union -- their trade

0:53:470:53:53

has risen faster than the UK's. My

point is the answer to your question

0:53:530:53:57

is in all of these other countries

that are not in the single market.

0:53:570:54:01

They managed to raise their trade

and do trade deals outside. Up until

0:54:010:54:09

2015, the last year before we voted

to leave, the EU did $7.7 trillion

0:54:090:54:16

of trade, countries like Switzerland

and Singapore did weigh more. I

0:54:160:54:20

think Switzerland did nearly 40

trillion and Singapore did nearly 50

0:54:200:54:25

trillion more and that shows big

isn't always necessarily powerful.

0:54:250:54:30

The United States is apparently the

Government's chief target to do one

0:54:300:54:33

of these ambitious global trade

deals. President Trump has said

0:54:330:54:38

overnight free-trade deals are very

stupid, I don't think that bodes

0:54:380:54:45

well for the negotiation.

That's

fair, that's true.

What Mr Trump

0:54:450:54:50

often tweets out after watching his

Fox programme isn't necessarily

0:54:500:54:56

always what happens.

Let me explain

how this works. You can only get a

0:54:560:55:01

free trade agreement, and they are

very hard to negotiate, if there is

0:55:010:55:06

a balance of benefits for both

sides. When it comes to the United

0:55:060:55:10

States, they have made it clear

their target is Britain's

0:55:100:55:15

agricultural market. They want their

chicken, their hormone injected

0:55:150:55:19

beef, which Michael Gove has already

said no to. We want in the US market

0:55:190:55:26

access of their public procurement.

Financial services...

No, we have

0:55:260:55:33

plenty of financial services and

what we can get extra we can eke out

0:55:330:55:38

from commercial diplomacy. What we

really want, hear me out, is access

0:55:380:55:44

to public document and this is a

resident who says America first. The

0:55:440:55:48

chances of our getting access to an

opened up public procurement sector

0:55:480:55:52

in America are near zero.

We are

jumping out of the Common Market

0:55:520:55:57

into an unfriendly world at the

moment.

I come back to the point I

0:55:570:56:02

made. It's fascinating, of all of

the trade arrangements made by

0:56:020:56:07

smaller countries like Switzerland,

far more trade arrangements and

0:56:070:56:10

bigger value than the EU has managed

in the same period. Hang on a

0:56:100:56:16

second, of course...

Chile,

Switzerland...

Your comment is you

0:56:160:56:23

cannot do trade agreements unless

you are in a big block. Let me

0:56:230:56:28

finish this point. What I'm saying

here is these countries have done

0:56:280:56:31

far more wide reaching deals... And

only 68% of trade deals made by the

0:56:310:56:40

EU include financial services. In

all of those trade deals, nearly 90%

0:56:400:56:47

include financial services.

I spoke

to officials in China and said what

0:56:470:56:52

about a trade deal, they said why do

we need a trade deal? Britain is

0:56:520:56:57

already open to us. What's more, if

you think you are going to land your

0:56:570:57:02

services into our market, no thank

you.

And on that note, we are out of

0:57:020:57:09

time, gentlemen, thank you very much

indeed.

0:57:090:57:11

Now a look at what's coming

up later this morning

0:57:110:57:14

on the Sunday Politics.

0:57:140:57:15

Here's Sarah Smith.

0:57:150:57:16

On the Sunday politics we will get

thoughts on Theresa May's big speech

0:57:160:57:22

from two leading Conservatives on

opposite sides of the Brexit divide,

0:57:220:57:24

the former leader Michael Howard and

backbench MP Nicky Morgan. Labour's

0:57:240:57:31

Shadow communities sector Andrew

Quinn will give Labour's reaction to

0:57:310:57:34

the big speech. Then Theresa May's

unofficial deputy David Lidington

0:57:340:57:38

will be here to talk about how the

Government intends to fix the

0:57:380:57:42

housing crisis. That is at 11

o'clock this morning.

0:57:420:57:46

Almost out of time for this week.

0:57:460:57:47

We're back at the same

time next Sunday.

0:57:470:57:49

Now, with all the Arctic weather

we've been having, it's very

0:57:490:57:52

appropriate to have some great live

music from Scandinavia this morning.

0:57:520:57:54

First Aid Kit hail from Sweden,

but their brand of folk music

0:57:540:57:57

is steeped in pure Americana.

0:57:570:57:58

From their new album,

Ruins, this is Fireworks.

0:57:580:58:00

Goodbye.

0:58:000:58:08

# I could have sworn

0:58:100:58:11

# I saw fireworks

0:58:110:58:16

# From your house

0:58:160:58:20

# Last night

0:58:200:58:26

# As the lights flickered

0:58:260:58:28

# And they failed

0:58:280:58:31

# I had it all figured out

0:58:310:58:39

# Why do I do this to myself?

0:58:390:58:47

# Every time I know The way it ends

0:58:480:58:56

# Before it's even begun

0:58:580:59:05

# I am the only one

at the finish line

0:59:050:59:13

# I took a trip out

to the frozen lake

0:59:140:59:20

# And you felt

0:59:200:59:21

# So far away

0:59:210:59:29

# But I could feel it

washing over me

0:59:300:59:35

# There's no escaping

0:59:350:59:39

# The harsh light of day

0:59:390:59:44

# Why do I do this to myself?

0:59:440:59:52

# Every time I know

the way it ends

0:59:521:00:00

# Before it's even begun

1:00:011:00:08

# I am the only one

1:00:081:00:12

# At the finish line

1:00:121:00:18

# I could've sworn

1:00:181:00:21

# I saw fireworks

1:00:211:00:25

# From your house

1:00:251:00:28

# Last night

1:00:281:00:32

# Ooh...#

1:00:321:00:40