11/03/2018 The Andrew Marr Show


11/03/2018

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LineFromTo

Good morning.

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I was reminded this week

of something Lenin said:

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"There are decades where nothing

happens;

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and there are weeks

where decades happen."

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It's been one of those weeks -

the Donald and Little Rocket Man

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making nice, a chilling return

to the Cold War at home,

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and a new stand-off

between the British Government

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and Brussels over the very

future of The City.

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As time seems to accelerate, how

much can we pack into the next hour?

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To update us on the British

Government response to that

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attempted murder, and to discuss

whether he has at last got room

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to spend a bit more,

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I'm joined by the Chancellor,

Philip Hammond.

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And from Berlin, Marina Litvinenko,

the woman whose husband was murdered

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- she thinks on the orders

of the Kremlin - to tell us

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what she wants from Theresa May now.

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Now, I've quoted Lenin already.

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I wonder whether John McDonnell,

the Shadow Chancellor,

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who's in Dundee, can top that

when he speaks to us later on.

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And, with the Ides of March coming

up this week - Thursday -

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it's appropriate to be talking

about those swaggering populists

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Julius Caesar and Marc Anthony -

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wowing the plebs at London's newest

theatre.

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I've been talking to actor

David Morrissey and director

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Sir Nicholas Hytner.

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Were I Brutus, Brutus Anthony,

there were an Anthony would ruffle

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up your spirits and put a tongue

in every wound of Caesar that

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would move the stones of Rome

to rise and mutiny.

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And reviewing the news,

the Guardian's Political

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Editor Anushka Asthana

and the Daily Mail's Amanda Platell.

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All that coming up soon.

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But first, the news

with Ben Thompson.

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Good morning.

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BBC News has learned that traces

of the nerve agent used to poison

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a former Russian spy

and his daughter

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have been found in a branch

of the Italian restaurant, Zizzi,

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that they visited in Salisbury.

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Sergei and Yulia Skripal

remain in a critical

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condition in hospital,

almost a week after

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they were taken ill.

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No one who was in the restaurant

at the same time is

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thought to be in danger.

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The Chancellor, Philip Hammond,

is arguing that there is light

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at the end of the tunnel

for the economy, as he prepares

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for his Spring Statement this week.

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The Shadow Chancellor,

John McDonnell, has criticised his

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approach, saying the Conservatives

can not deliver the change

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the country needs.

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President Trump has said he thinks

North Korea wants to make peace.

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He said Pyongyang had promised

to halt missile tests while it held

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meetings with the US,

and he believed it would

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honour the commitment.

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Mr Trump has said he'll meet

the North Korean leader,

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Kim Jong-un, to discuss

the regime's nuclear programme.

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Speaking in Pennsylvania,

he said the discussions could end

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in failure or result

in the greatest deal for the world.

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The water industry regulator

for England and Wales

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is to investigate why thousands

of homes suffered shortages

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or total loss of supply

following the recent cold weather.

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Ofwat says the review will determine

whether companies had

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proper contingency plans in place,

and are offering sufficient

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compensation to those affected.

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A charity co-founded by Bono has

apologised after staff

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made claims of bullying,

harassment and abuse.

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The ONE organisation said workers

at its office in Johannesburg had

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alleged they were belittled

and subjected to sexist comments.

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In a statement, Bono said

the charity's new chief executive

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had taken decisive action

to address the matter.

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That's all from me.

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The next news on BBC

One is at 1:00pm.

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Back to you, Andrew.

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Many thanks. As I said, head

spinning morning for news with lots

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going on, but the papers have more

or less decided what the main story

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is. The Sunday Telegraph, corrupt

Russians face UK Visa bank,

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suggesting the tough American and

Canadian act against misbehaving

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Russians might be applied in

Britain. The Sunday Times have a

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different take on the story, talking

about the Russians playing large

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amounts of money into the

Conservative Party coffers. Marina

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Litvinenko will be on the story

shortly. She has been speaking about

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that as well. The Mail on Sunday has

another charity scandal story, this

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time Bono's charity. I keep

attacking the red tops for not

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tackling serious stories, but a

shout out to the Sunday People,

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eight targets on booting's hit list

in the UK. They have identified

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eight people who might be next. This

could be the beginning of the story.

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And the Sunday express has the spine

poison in a parcel, was it in Zizzi

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or a parcel. The Observer has top

paid men outstripping women by

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Quattro- one in pay. And this is a

tangerine dream, beautifully

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coordinated. We'll start off with

the Russian story.

Every paper seems

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to have a different take on this.

People has a former Russian spy

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saying the Russians tried to poison

him. He is all over the People with

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other spies he says is on the hit

list. They say it was in the

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restaurant, the poison was in the

restaurant. The Sunday Express says

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the poison was in a parcel that was

sent to his home. The Mail on Sunday

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says it was in the flowers by the

grave.

It was somewhere.

No one has

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a clue. What strikes me about all

this, we have the government saying,

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we are doing a fantastic job and

taking it really seriously. Why

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then, when and on double agent, a

former Russian spy, was found with

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his daughter frothing at the mouth

on a park bench in rural England

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with his daughter beside him, didn't

and alarm go off, and didn't

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somebody say, maybe we should get

somebody in, this might be a

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poisoning.

It did take days, didn't

it?

It was something like five days

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before they brought the army in and

even to take the ambulance away that

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he was carried to the hospital in.

It just seems insane.

In terms of

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the political response, to big front

pages. -- to make big front pages.

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The Sunday Times focusing on all the

money going into the Conservative

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Party covers from prominent

Russians.

You get a different

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impression to the government

response to Salisbury by looking at

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these papers. The Sunday Telegraph

says it will make it harder to get

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visas, but the Sunday Times has a

totally different approach. It's

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about the government's links to

Russian oligarchs and the amount of

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money given to the Conservative

Party in particular. When Theresa

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May one came into power aides said

she would suck with a long spoon

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when it came to Moscow. It turns out

that spoon was effective at getting

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a lot of money in.

At this stage we

should say we have no proven link to

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the Kremlin. It's all supposition.

Absolutely.

And there are very nice

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Russian billionaires that are here.

The Sunday Times is clearly linking

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this to the Salisbury thing in some

ways because they have goats in here

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where they have Cabinet ministers

privately accusing the Prime

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Minister of a limp response.

Apparently people were furious when

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she slapped down Boris Johnson in a

cabinet meeting for saying Russia

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was responsible for the meeting. I

wonder who briefed that.

She also

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said this week that when we find out

who is responsible, there will be

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serious repercussions. It took them

nearly ten years to get... I can

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ever pronounce his name.

Litvinenko.

In the meantime we are planning to

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ban going to the World Cup, we will

have played in Russia and Qatar

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before they have even decided if it

is state funded.

But we are not

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sending a junior minister. That will

scare them. The next story, please.

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The Sun.

As you have Philip Hammond

on today...

A really important

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interview on the Sun. But it wasn't

on the front page.

Very mean of

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them. It's a little bit on page two.

He is here to give is great news,

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austerity is over and the light is

shining again. One thing I do like

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is that he is giving a big plug to

tackling the scourge of plastic.

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When you read through this piece,

what he is saying is unemployment is

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down, wages are up nearly 3%. And

manufacturing is up. We have had two

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quarters now where we are paying off

debt Day to Day, the so-called end

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of austerity. It's a sudden Upland

's message.

Philip Hammond has has

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walking into the light. But two

things we can be sure of... One

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thing we can be sure of, you will

not switch the light on on Tuesday

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because of expectation management is

to be believed, he will do hardly

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anything when it comes to the Spring

statement, but before the light

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there is quite a lot of darkness.

This story in the Observer about

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millions of families basically

facing the deepest benefit cuts in

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years, these are things already

announced but will come into action

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this year, and they will hit 11

million families. Many of them are

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in that just about managing group

that the government says it wants to

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help. You have to be careful with

the language you use around

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austerity. More than one politician

has got in trouble previously for

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suggesting we are about to start

prancing into the sunny.

I don't

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think he will be that prancing

today, do you?

We are watching and

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hoping for a bit of Prance. A great

cartoon in the big story of the

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week.

Hugely important, Donald Trump

tweeted he would meet up with North

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Korean leader Kim Jong-un. You don't

often get a story completely

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encapsulated in one cartoon. The

short fat maniac rocket man, I

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believe? The old mentally deranged

ductile, I presume. And with a nice

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warhead there.

It's a clever take on

a famous cartoon by David Lowe,

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great wartime cartoonist, and it is

the Molotov pact between Hitler and

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Stalin. It was a very clever and

beautifully drawn and accurate take

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on one of the world was not most

famous cartoons.

I think he's

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showing off!

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showing off!

Back to domestic

politics. I love this. You know when

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you use WhatsApp and it turns out

it's quite private, it turns out it

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doesn't always work that way. This

is a massive link to Buzzfeed of the

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WhatsApp messages between the

European research group, essentially

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the Tories' backbench Brexiteers,

and it starts off with their

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response when ardent Remainer Anna

Soubry said Theresa May should

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essentially fling them out of the

party. Former leader Iain Duncan

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Smith, you can imagine his tone,

says, my suggestion is colleagues

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should not engage in this. Although

immediately, they engage. A message

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from an main, the MP for St Albans,

who basically says she wants a badge

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with 35 stars, the number Anna

Soubry said there were of Remainers.

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A pair of swivel eyes. She said,

stay focused, we intend to win. And

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they are not big fans of Philip

Hammond. They repeatedly called him

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Philly no mates.

They come onto

these programmes and a very

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restrained in their language, but

between themselves they are furious.

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They agree lines they will take

between them. They are furious at

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some things Theresa May has done and

furious EU citizens will continue to

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have free movement during

transition. It's really quite

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telling.

And because it's a Sunday

morning you are not ruling out some

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of the abusive bits.

There are some

swear words.

That's the Conservative

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side and their divisions, but also a

titanic struggle between Jon

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Lansman, creator and co-leader of

Momentum on one side of Labour, and

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then the Unite candidate on the

other side. Its unions against the

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mass movement that challenged in the

Labour Party.

Groups who you thought

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would be on the same site. But the

leadership seems to be backing the

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Unite candidate in this, but Jon

Lansman wanted to throw it open.

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It's interesting he said female

members in the Labour Party should

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feel free to put their names

forward, and there is a now inspired

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by Jon Lansman hashtag with loads of

women coming forward for the role.

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It's an interesting problem for them

because the unions have always been

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at the heart of the labour movement

from the start. And now I think they

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have the most successful mass

membership party in Europe.

And they

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are isolating them.

Jon Lansman's

background is that he thinks members

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should have the power.

Shall we do

dogs? It's a Sunday morning. Crufts

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is on at the moment and it's

completely captivating.

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completely captivating. These

wonderful animals running along with

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all their beautiful fur flying

around. This is what the poor little

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guys look like beforehand. I

wouldn't do that to myself to get my

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hair looking that good. Would you?

No.

But it's worth a watch and I

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think the final might be tonight.

You have a very interesting story

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about a graduate suing.

This is

really interesting. This graduate,

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who was from Hong Kong, now living

in London, came and applied for a

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degree at Anglia Ruskin University

and one of the promises in the

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prospectus was that you would have

massive opportunities for employment

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afterwards. Well, she has concluded

that it was a Mickey Mouse degree

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and she doesn't have all those

opportunities.

Very interesting.

And

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she is suing the University. This is

changing, students are seeing

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themselves as customers and is

saying, well I get...

She is saying,

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the degree wasn't tough enough?

Interesting.

The claim includes

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allegations that one lecturer

arrived late for lessons, finished

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early, and occasionally simply told

students to self-study. I have to

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say, I thought universities are all

about self-study.

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It was International Women's Day,

but today is Mother's Day.

This is

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wonderful. Gary Oldman, fresh from

winning his Oscar, is with his mum

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on Mother's Day. It's not that he

just goes on about his mum. When he

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moved to America, he brought her

over with him. She is now frail. He

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now lives with her. That's the way

to treat your mum. Did you remember

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to send your mum flowers?

I did! She

got them, so I'm OK. Thank you both

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very much indeed.

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For anyone with half a memory,

the Salisbury nerve agent attack

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is horribly reminiscent

of the murder of Alexander -

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or Sasha - Litvinenko.

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Killed in central London in a plot

which a public inquiry

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concluded was probably

approved by Vladimir Putin.

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Marina Litvinenko, his widow,

joins us now from Berlin.

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Thank you for joining us. This must

have brought back terrible memories,

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the Skripal attack in Salisbury. Can

you tell us how you responded when

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you heard the news?

Very good

morning. Yes, it was a very

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difficult moment when I saw this

news, because I believe it's never,

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ever happened again, after public

enquiry provided evidence of the

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death of my husband. But

unfortunately it did happen. Now I

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am living every day in news from

Salisbury, and trying to understand

0:16:410:16:46

what happened and who might be

behind the crime.

Your husband was

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murdered 12 years ago, and you

fought very hard for a public

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enquiry. After that enquiry reported

and suggested there was probably a

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link, you got a letter from Theresa

May, the then Home Secretary.

We had

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a meeting and we had a discussion

about what you might achieve after

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this public enquiry. After this

meeting, I received a letter. And I

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actually I would like to notice what

was saying in this letter at the

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end. I and this government are clear

that we must continue to pursue

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justice for your husband's killing,

and that we will take every step to

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protect the UK and its people from

such a crime ever being repeated.

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But unfortunately it happened again.

It means something was not done, and

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a lesson received after the murder

of my husband was not learned.

What

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more do you think the British

government could have done, after

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the enquiry into the murder of your

husband, that it didn't do?

We

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understand that the relationship

between two countries like Russia

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and the UK need to be at a very high

level, but we know Russia never

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supported the investigation of

killing my husband. Nobody was

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punished, and people who have been

the killer of my husband are not

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even suspects, because this

investigation provided all evidence.

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They still live in Russia. He is a

member of Parliament. .

Going back

0:18:230:18:35

to the Salisbury attacks, at this

stage we don't have any proof of

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Russian involvement. How sure are

you that this was a Russian attack?

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Russia has a very bad reputation

now, and everything happening in the

0:18:450:18:52

world, doping in sport or

involvement in elections,

0:18:520:18:56

immediately Russia is in the front

of all minds. But in this case I

0:18:560:19:01

would like to get very serious and

take its all evidence, and maybe

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sometimes to provide as a tool, and

was it Russia or any other country

0:19:060:19:14

behind this crime? For us, it was

almost ten years to provide this

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facts and evidence, and it was all

proof. I want the same case to be

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made in the same way. It will not be

politically motivated, and only

0:19:230:19:30

after proper investigation we could

say who is behind this crime.

There

0:19:300:19:34

is a sense at the moment that Moscow

was almost laughing at Britain.

0:19:340:19:40

President Putin talked about his

enemies swallowing poison and then a

0:19:400:19:46

presenter of a Russian television

programme was talking about Britain

0:19:460:19:50

being a very dangerous place

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being a very dangerous place for

Russian, people falling out of

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windows and such.

It is a very

important job, and I hope the

0:20:020:20:09

British government will understand

these words and take it seriously.

0:20:090:20:13

They are talking about sanctions or

reaction for what happened in

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Salisbury, need to be very serious.

Given now what we are saying from

0:20:170:20:22

Moscow, you need to react and you

need to understand it's some kind of

0:20:220:20:27

message, and not just relax.

So in

her letter to you, Theresa May said,

0:20:270:20:35

when she was Home Secretary, that we

are going to take every step to

0:20:350:20:40

protect the UK and its people from

such a crime ever being repeated.

0:20:400:20:45

What is your message to Theresa May

now?

You need to be very selective

0:20:450:20:49

who you are friends with, and when

you allow people with money to come

0:20:490:20:53

to your country and make a business,

you need to be sure what kind of

0:20:530:20:59

money these people bring to your

country. They offer this money

0:20:590:21:03

stolen from Russian people, and

sometimes it's a very serious crime

0:21:030:21:09

behind this money. And I'm

absolutely solidarity with this

0:21:090:21:15

whole question and asking to United

with all this action that was

0:21:150:21:19

already done in the United States

and in Europe. I think they have to

0:21:190:21:24

do the same steps.

You have

commented already about the number

0:21:240:21:29

of -- the amount of Russian money

that has gone to the Conservative

0:21:290:21:34

Party. Do you think the Conservative

Party should hand that money back?

I

0:21:340:21:39

agree with this, because you don't

know what kind of money you accept.

0:21:390:21:44

You are talking about reputation. I

think this minute, very serious now,

0:21:440:21:50

your reputation has to be very

clear, particularly in politics.

You

0:21:500:21:55

are in Berlin at the moment, but you

live in Britain. Do you yourself

0:21:550:22:00

feel safe in Britain?

Since what

happened with my husband, I have

0:22:000:22:07

this question in almost every

interview. You can't say 100%, but I

0:22:070:22:13

would like to feel safe. I would

like my son to feel safe, because we

0:22:130:22:18

are both British, and I would like

all British people to feel safe.

0:22:180:22:23

Marina Litvinenko, thank you so much

for talking to us.

0:22:230:22:27

And so to the weather.

0:22:270:22:28

The month started wildly

but it's getting milder.

0:22:280:22:30

You may know the old saying, that

March weather comes in like a lion

0:22:300:22:34

and goes out like a lamb.

0:22:340:22:35

Louise Lear has more details.

0:22:350:22:38

You are quite right. It has been a

relatively unsettled start to the

0:22:410:22:46

month, but through the morning it

looks like some early morning fog

0:22:460:22:49

will drift away, and we have had

some sunny spells, as you can see

0:22:490:22:55

from this picture. We are surrounded

by weather fronts, topping and

0:22:550:23:00

tailing the country. This area of

low pressure will be more of a

0:23:000:23:05

player today. Looking at a recent

radar picture, the rain confining

0:23:050:23:09

itself to the far north of Scotland,

fringing eastern England, and

0:23:090:23:15

pushing into the South West. Ahead

of it, one or two scattered showers.

0:23:150:23:20

The rest of Mothering Sunday, looks

like sunny spells and scattered

0:23:200:23:25

showers for England and Wales. The

best of the weather in northern

0:23:250:23:30

England, Scotland and Northern

Ireland, and warmer there than it

0:23:300:23:33

has been of late. Perhaps not quite

as warm across the rest of England

0:23:330:23:38

and Wales, but not a bad afternoon.

A spell of more organised rain as

0:23:380:23:44

that low pressure moves in, moving

steadily north and west to start off

0:23:440:23:49

Monday morning. Cooler, with a touch

of frost in Scotland, but a decent

0:23:490:23:58

day up here tomorrow.

0:23:580:24:03

Now, coming up later this morning,

as the investigation

0:24:030:24:06

into the nerve agent attack

in Salisbury continues, Sarah Smith

0:24:060:24:08

will be talking to the former

Home Secretary Jack Straw and former

0:24:080:24:11

Security Minister,

Pauline Neville Jones.

0:24:110:24:12

Also live on the programme, the

Universities Minister, Sam Gyimah.

0:24:120:24:12

Also live on the programme, the

Universities Minister, Sam Gyimah.

0:24:120:24:13

Also live on the programme, the

Universities Minister, Sam Gyimah.

0:24:130:24:14

That's the Sunday Politics

at 11:00am here on BBC One.

0:24:140:24:17

And so, back up north

to my hometown of Dundee,

0:24:170:24:19

where the Scottish Labour Party

Conference is underway.

0:24:190:24:21

Today's keynote speaker is the

Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell.

0:24:210:24:24

He joins us now. Welcome. Can I ask

you first about the story we have

0:24:240:24:29

been talking about on this programme

a lot, the poisoning attack in

0:24:290:24:34

Salisbury? There is a suggestion

that the organisation that cracks

0:24:340:24:41

down on Russian money coming into

the country should be applied in

0:24:410:24:45

Britain as well. Do you agree with

that?

The Labour Party moved

0:24:450:24:50

amendments to the money laundering

bill only a week ago to introduce

0:24:500:24:55

this clause. At that stage, the

Conservative Party opposed our

0:24:550:25:01

amendments. We hope now that they

will enable us to bring those

0:25:010:25:06

amendments back at report stage of

the bill so we can have effective

0:25:060:25:10

action. What it does is identifies

those individuals who are basically

0:25:100:25:17

found you'll see of human rights

abuses, and then prevents them from

0:25:170:25:24

having bank accounts in our country,

and effectively... It was introduced

0:25:240:25:31

several years ago by the Obama

administration. I don't know why the

0:25:310:25:38

Conservatives opposed our

amendments. They said there was some

0:25:380:25:42

technical issues. There was some

panic among the Conservative ranks

0:25:420:25:45

on this, but let's now use this

legislation.

If there was a Russian

0:25:450:25:52

attack, and I say if, clearly there

needs to be a strong British

0:25:520:25:58

response. Mrs Litvinenko was

suggesting that after the report

0:25:580:26:02

into her husband's murder, the

response was not strong enough. What

0:26:020:26:05

with the Labour Party like to see?

Lets see the outcome of the

0:26:050:26:11

investigation. We cannot leap to any

conclusions. We need to use any

0:26:110:26:18

diplomatic methods we can, linked

with our European and global I'll...

0:26:180:26:22

Global allies. It may well be a

criminal operation. We don't know at

0:26:220:26:30

the moment. We cannot tolerate

another state putting at risk our

0:26:300:26:35

own citizens or people living in

this country, so we have to isolate

0:26:350:26:39

them. One of the methods we can do

that, is the sort of measures like

0:26:390:26:46

the Magnitsky clause that we are

putting forward.

One of the very

0:26:460:26:51

clear things we can do is stop

appearing on rush-hour today, which

0:26:510:26:55

has been described by one of your

ministers as a Kremlin propaganda

0:26:550:26:59

vehicle.

I think that is right now.

I have appeared on that in the past,

0:26:590:27:04

sometimes to challenge some of the

issues internationally or raise

0:27:040:27:08

issues here that we are concerned

about, not just Russia but also the

0:27:080:27:15

international scene overall. I think

that's right, because what we are

0:27:150:27:19

seeing from Russia at times goes

beyond objective journalism.

So a

0:27:190:27:25

change in direction. Your deputy was

on Russia today only yesterday. Will

0:27:250:27:29

you encourage the rest of your

colleagues to follow that lead?

Yes,

0:27:290:27:34

I am. I've been looking overnight at

what is happening in terms of

0:27:340:27:38

changes in coverage on Russian

media, and I think we have to step

0:27:380:27:42

back now. I can understand why

people have been on it up until now,

0:27:420:27:47

because

0:27:470:27:52

because we have treated it like any

other television station. We have

0:27:540:27:56

tried to be fair. As long as they

abide by general journalistic

0:27:560:27:59

standards that are objective, that

is fine. But we will be having that

0:27:590:28:05

conversation.

With respect, it

wasn't like any other TV station.

0:28:050:28:09

Tom Watson said that Russia today

was reporting false stories, and

0:28:090:28:15

aligned its policy with Vladimir

Putin's Russian state. That was back

0:28:150:28:20

in November.

At times there were

examples of that, and we need to

0:28:200:28:25

take that into account in the

current climate.

Let's turn to the

0:28:250:28:30

economic story of the day, a

cheerful Philip Hammond statement in

0:28:300:28:35

the sun today, when he talks about

wages gumming up by nearly 3%,

0:28:350:28:41

paying off debt finally, the end of

austerity, light at the end of the

0:28:410:28:46

tunnel. Putting aside the politics,

can you give to cheers for what

0:28:460:28:50

appears to be a change in the

economic story of this country?

No,

0:28:500:28:55

because I don't think it's accurate.

Last year we had the lowest economic

0:28:550:29:00

growth in the G-7 countries, so we

shouldn't be celebrating that. The

0:29:000:29:06

head of the OBR has said that

austerity is holding growth back.

0:29:060:29:10

Wages are now below what they were

in 2007, 2008, below the banking

0:29:100:29:18

crisis. In terms of the deficit, we

were promised by the Conservatives

0:29:180:29:22

that they would wipe the deficit out

completely three years ago. I think

0:29:220:29:28

what he has done, very cleverly, is

he has shifted the deficit onto the

0:29:280:29:34

shoulders of NHS managers,

headteachers and local government

0:29:340:29:39

leaders. Conservative council

leaders now are saying, I quote his

0:29:390:29:47

own council leader in Surrey, that

they are facing a financial crisis

0:29:470:29:52

because of government cutbacks. This

is not a matter for celebration. He

0:29:520:29:56

should be coming into the real

world. The Resolution Foundation

0:29:560:30:01

said today that 11 million people

today, not just the poor, are going

0:30:010:30:06

to be hits next month by the cuts

they get to the benefit system. Not

0:30:060:30:11

a matter for celebration by any

means.

Pay has been rising by an

0:30:110:30:16

annual rate of 2.9%. We have had the

two strongest quarters of

0:30:160:30:22

productivity growth, and a budget

surplus for the first time since

0:30:220:30:28

2002. Something is happening.

Pay is

simply, at the moment, just about

0:30:280:30:36

matching inflation. What else did he

promised? The pay cap lifting? Look

0:30:360:30:41

at what they are doing to health

workers. They are offering them a

0:30:410:30:47

standstill wage increase, and then

forcing them to give up a day's

0:30:470:30:53

holiday pay. These are dedicated

staff in a vocation. I think it is

0:30:530:31:01

miserly, mean-spirited, and it's the

sort of thing we should be

0:31:010:31:03

condemning.

0:31:030:31:08

You have said recently your

objectives are socialist, no

0:31:080:31:11

surprise there. This means an

irreversible shift in the balance of

0:31:110:31:14

power and wealth in the face of

ordinary people. What do you mean by

0:31:140:31:19

irreversible? Governments come in

and create policies, but those

0:31:190:31:22

policies can be replaced. What is

irreversible?

The Clement Attlee

0:31:220:31:29

government won the argument about

how we manage our economy, and they

0:31:290:31:33

won it for a generation, about how

we manage the economy in the

0:31:330:31:37

interests of everybody, how we

establish a welfare state so

0:31:370:31:40

everybody lucked and cared for, how

we give everybody a free and free

0:31:400:31:44

NHS. They won the argument for a

whole generation. I think we are

0:31:440:31:50

winning the argument now and I think

by embedding the understanding of

0:31:500:31:55

how the economy could work for

everybody, we would be able to have

0:31:550:31:58

irreversible change in this country.

Just round the corner from you in my

0:31:580:32:04

hometown, lots of fishing

communities on the east coast.

0:32:040:32:09

Traditional fishing communities. You

have your own version of cherry

0:32:090:32:12

picking when it comes to Brexit, you

want changes on state aid, workers'

0:32:120:32:16

rights and so forth. You need to

have a proper negotiation in turn

0:32:160:32:20

with Brussels. Would you be prepared

to see continental -based fishing

0:32:200:32:25

fleets coming into British waters as

part of that negotiation?

We want to

0:32:250:32:30

ensure that our own fisher people

lead the discussions we are having

0:32:300:32:36

about the future of our fishing

industry. What they are saying to us

0:32:360:32:40

is that in any negotiations you have

to ensure our livelihoods are

0:32:400:32:44

protected, but also you have to

ensure that the stock of fish is

0:32:440:32:48

protected. So when we go into

negotiations, those are the people

0:32:480:32:53

we will be listening to.

You say

when you go into negotiations, but

0:32:530:32:57

isn't it the truth that it is more

likely if you become Chancellor, you

0:32:570:33:01

will become so after the deal is

done? And in that context, you will

0:33:010:33:09

have seen the impact assessments

from the government this week about

0:33:090:33:12

potential outcomes. Do you think

they are accurate, broadly speaking?

0:33:120:33:14

I am anxious about some of those

impact assessments. Because it does

0:33:140:33:19

reflect, I think, the nature of the

negotiations as they now are. It

0:33:190:33:23

does reflect, I think, the inability

of our current government to secure

0:33:230:33:30

a decent negotiated settlement. I

think if you change the style of

0:33:300:33:34

negotiations, worked on the basis

of... And I have said this to you

0:33:340:33:38

before, if you change the tone of

negotiation so your recognise you

0:33:380:33:42

are negotiating on the basis of

mutual interest and mutual benefit,

0:33:420:33:46

we can protect our economy and

protect jobs. That's what we will do

0:33:460:33:50

in those negotiations.

If these

impacts assessments are in any way

0:33:500:33:58

accurate, it's a bad assessment for

any chance of coming in. I don't

0:33:580:34:02

normally called Tony Blair to you,

but it said Labour will have less

0:34:020:34:08

money to deal with the country's

problems and be distracted by

0:34:080:34:11

dealing with Brexit rather than the

health service, jobs and living

0:34:110:34:15

standards. He has a point, you would

come in possibly in a situation

0:34:150:34:19

where you have a lot of trouble on

your plate about Brexit, and yet you

0:34:190:34:22

want a huge change in economic

direction.

I welcome Tony Blair's

0:34:220:34:29

advice, obviously, but I am saying

this to you, of course I know we

0:34:290:34:33

could inherit a real mess as a

result of the way the government is

0:34:330:34:38

negotiating with the EU. I

understand that, they are making a

0:34:380:34:44

Horlicks of it, as some of their own

sides described it as. I think we

0:34:440:34:51

could resolve those matters by

ensuring we have cooperation in

0:34:510:34:55

those negotiations. We don't flounce

about saying no deal is better than

0:34:550:35:00

a bad deal and this sort of stuff,

threatening to walk away from the

0:35:000:35:04

table. We have got to negotiate in

the interests of our country and

0:35:040:35:08

bring the country back together

again. From day to day I don't know

0:35:080:35:12

who is negotiating in this

government because they fall out in

0:35:120:35:16

cabinet all the time.

I am sure we

will talk more about this, but enjoy

0:35:160:35:20

Dundee for now and thank you.

0:35:200:35:23

If you haven't heard of the BBC's

podcast about all things Brexit,

0:35:230:35:26

it's called Brexitcast,

and they'll be marking one year

0:35:260:35:28

to go until we leave the EU

with a special edition live

0:35:280:35:31

at the BBC Radio Theatre in London.

0:35:310:35:32

You can apply to join the audience

at bbc.co.uk/showsandtours.

0:35:320:35:39

Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar" has

always been popular but it really

0:35:390:35:42

seems to be speaking

to today's politics.

0:35:420:35:45

With its knife-in-the-back plots,

an out-of-touch elite

0:35:450:35:49

and rabble-rousing demagogues,

this is not simply a history play.

0:35:490:35:53

Sir Nicholas Hytner has directed

a new version in which audience

0:35:530:35:56

members become part of the action

itself, joining the mob on the floor

0:35:560:35:59

of The Bridge Theatre,

London's newest venue.

0:35:590:36:01

Recently, I caught up with him

and with David Morrissey

0:36:010:36:05

who plays Marc Antony.

0:36:050:36:09

We all stand up against the spirit

of Caesar, and in the spirit

0:36:090:36:12

of men there is no blood.

0:36:120:36:14

O that we then could come

by Caesar's spirit,

0:36:140:36:16

and not dismember Caesar!

0:36:160:36:17

But alas, he must bleed for it.

0:36:170:36:22

Were I Brutus, Brutus Anthony,

there were an Anthony would ruffle

0:36:220:36:26

up your spirits and put a tongue

in every wound of Caesar that

0:36:260:36:29

would move the stones

of Rome to rise and mutiny.

0:36:290:36:37

I've been really knocked out

by the response to the play

0:36:410:36:44

being performed in this way,

that you are interacting

0:36:440:36:49

with people, that you see them

as the crowd reacting to you every

0:36:490:36:52

step of the way, and...

0:36:520:36:55

For the people on the floor,

they are having one experience,

0:36:550:36:58

and the people in the seats,

when I speak to them,

0:36:580:37:02

they say it's like seeing a sea

of people, and they ask me

0:37:020:37:05

whether they are planted

or whether they are stage managed,

0:37:050:37:07

and I say, no, they just

find their place.

0:37:070:37:09

It's really exciting.

0:37:090:37:10

They make eye contact

the whole time.

0:37:100:37:12

They make eye contact,

you're touching them,

0:37:120:37:14

you're bringing them

around, you know.

0:37:140:37:15

They shout things out.

0:37:150:37:17

There's something...

The play starts with a holiday.

0:37:170:37:19

It's a party.

0:37:190:37:21

They're having a party,

and that gets rudely interrupted,

0:37:210:37:23

and the crowd really respond

to that rude interruption.

0:37:230:37:25

They really don't like it.

0:37:250:37:27

Yeah, they tell them to go home.

0:37:270:37:29

That's the first line of the play.

0:37:290:37:32

"Home, you idle creatures.

0:37:320:37:34

"Get you home."

0:37:340:37:35

It's a pretty good way

to start a play, to tell

0:37:350:37:38

the audience to get out!

0:37:380:37:39

And this is a very fashionable play

at the moment, Julius Caesar.

0:37:390:37:42

It's fashionable in the States

and it's fashionable here.

0:37:420:37:44

There's another

production of it as well.

0:37:440:37:46

Why is this play so

much of the moment?

0:37:460:37:48

What's so interesting about it

in the European context

0:37:480:37:51

is the way it explores

the failures of liberalism.

0:37:510:37:52

The people who kill Julius Caesar -

Brutus, Cassius, the conspirators -

0:37:520:37:55

they are revolutionaries.

0:37:550:37:56

They are the intellectual elite.

0:37:560:37:58

They are the Metropolitan elite,

and what goes wrong for them

0:37:580:38:00

is they don't know how to bring

the mob, the people, with them.

0:38:000:38:04

They are, many of them,

people of great integrity.

0:38:040:38:07

Brutus does have terrific

intellectual and emotional

0:38:070:38:14

integrity, but he is too arrogant

to know how to sell the necessity

0:38:140:38:18

of his project to the rest

of the Roman population.

0:38:180:38:22

So, Marc Antony, you are

a brilliant, brilliant demagogue.

0:38:220:38:25

Just explain to people who don't

know the play a little bit about how

0:38:250:38:28

you are able to take the crowd

into your hand and manipulate them.

0:38:280:38:32

What happens is that there

is the funeral of Caesar,

0:38:320:38:34

and he is allowed by Brutus

and Cassius to make a speech,

0:38:340:38:39

and what Marc Anthony does

is he is able to turn the crowd

0:38:390:38:42

around by appealing to the security

of yesterday, and also saying,

0:38:420:38:45

"Hey, I'm one of you.

0:38:450:38:46

"I'm like you.

0:38:460:38:47

"I come from your place.

0:38:470:38:49

"I walk like you, I talk like you,

I want the same things as you.

0:38:490:38:52

"I'm not like those guys,

who are intellectuals, scholars.

0:38:520:38:54

"They are the ones who are

telling you what you need to have

0:38:540:38:57

"and what you need to do,

but I know you people."

0:38:570:39:00

And it's a great deal

of fun, in a kind of grim

0:39:000:39:07

way, this production.

0:39:070:39:09

There's a lot of things going on -

smoke, machine guns,

0:39:090:39:11

rock music and all the rest of it.

0:39:110:39:13

And you have talked,

in your recent autobiography,

0:39:130:39:15

about the tension between art

on the one hand and showbiz

0:39:150:39:18

on the other, because we want

to come to be entertained as well.

0:39:180:39:21

Just tell us a little bit about how

it you deal with that

0:39:210:39:24

Just tell us a little bit

about how you deal with that

0:39:240:39:27

in a play like Julius Caesar.

0:39:270:39:28

Well, when you start

with Shakespeare, you're starting

0:39:280:39:30

with the great master.

0:39:300:39:31

That balance between

substance and entertainment,

0:39:310:39:34

between art and show business -

because Shakespeare is always

0:39:340:39:38

hurling at you stuff that will,

in effect, silence the mob.

0:39:380:39:43

Politically, Shakespeare is none

too fond of the mob,

0:39:430:39:47

and one of the few undeniable

constants in Shakespeare's

0:39:470:39:49

plays is that he...

0:39:490:39:50

He fears democracy, really.

0:39:500:39:53

He suspects the crowd,

but as an entertainer,

0:39:530:39:57

he knows exactly what to throw them,

so ending with a big battle

0:39:570:40:00

sequence, that's not a bad idea.

0:40:000:40:03

Terrific set piece

speeches, terrific idea.

0:40:030:40:07

Scenes that are none

of them too long.

0:40:070:40:09

Always on to the next thing.

0:40:090:40:10

Good jokes.

0:40:100:40:11

Good jokes, gripping story...

0:40:110:40:12

Romans, war scenes, crowd pleasing.

0:40:120:40:15

Let me ask you a little

bit about Britannia,

0:40:150:40:19

because that's been a huge epic

on Sky, and it's the

0:40:190:40:22

Romans and the Britons.

0:40:220:40:23

Behold, gods of Britannia.

0:40:230:40:28

I am Rome.

0:40:280:40:30

And where I walk is Rome.

0:40:300:40:38

It's written by Jez Butterworth,

and what's happening is the Romans

0:40:400:40:43

are coming back to Britain

for the second time,

0:40:430:40:45

because Julius Caesar couldn't

hack it the first time,

0:40:450:40:47

so there's something that...

0:40:470:40:48

Going in the second time, it's like,

you're taking his crown,

0:40:480:40:51

and they are going to stay.

0:40:510:40:52

So they are much more vicious.

0:40:520:40:54

Also what they do is they find

who hates each other and they set

0:40:540:40:58

them off against each other...

0:40:580:40:59

One tribe against the other.

0:40:590:41:00

That's how they do it,

and that's how they conquered most

0:41:000:41:03

of the world, is by going in

and saying, "You're all Roman now."

0:41:030:41:06

Let's end by talking

about The Bridge and its future,

0:41:060:41:08

this great theatre.

0:41:080:41:09

In a sense, it's London Theatre,

of course, but it's reshaping

0:41:090:41:12

the kind of geography

of London culture.

0:41:120:41:15

It's yet another big development

on the east of London.

0:41:150:41:20

Yes, East and South.

0:41:200:41:21

Back to the future.

0:41:210:41:25

Shakespeare's theatre

was on the South Bank,

0:41:250:41:27

and Southwark was the great

entertainment borough

0:41:270:41:29

back 400 years ago.

0:41:290:41:31

Even back 100 years ago,

Elephant and Castle

0:41:310:41:35

was the Piccadilly of the south.

0:41:350:41:37

I think there is a huge amount

of energy surging East in London.

0:41:370:41:40

The great thing about here

is that we can put all our shows out

0:41:400:41:44

all over the country

using National Theatre Live,

0:41:440:41:45

which was one of the things

that I'd started

0:41:450:41:48

when I was at the National Theatre.

0:41:480:41:50

Julius Caesar will be

out March 22nd.

0:41:500:41:52

What we are hoping to do here...

0:41:520:41:55

We have no great remit

beyond putting on what we hope

0:41:550:41:57

are terrific, thought-provoking,

entertaining shows,

0:41:570:42:00

and getting as many people

to see them as possible.

0:42:000:42:02

That's our remit.

0:42:020:42:04

If we can get them out over

the whole country, all to the good.

0:42:040:42:07

All over the world.

0:42:070:42:10

Bums on seats, and, in this context,

feet on the floor as well.

0:42:100:42:13

Thank you both very much indeed.

0:42:130:42:14

Thank you.

Thank you.

0:42:140:42:15

So, as we've heard earlier,

the Chancellor believes the economy

0:42:150:42:19

is at last on the turn and there's

light at the end of the tunnel.

0:42:190:42:23

Well, that's a relief.

0:42:230:42:24

But, with a huge round of

new welfare cuts looming and intense

0:42:240:42:27

pressures on the health and defence

budgets, does this mean

0:42:270:42:29

that he will actually

put his hand in his pocket?

0:42:290:42:33

I will come onto that in a second. I

will start by asking about this

0:42:330:42:38

poisoning in Salisbury. If it is

proven to be an action of the

0:42:380:42:43

Russian state, how serious is that

for our relationship with the

0:42:430:42:46

Russian government?

First of all, as

you say, it's a police investigation

0:42:460:42:51

and it will be evidence lead and we

must go where the evidence takes us.

0:42:510:42:55

We have to allow the police

investigation to take its course.

0:42:550:42:59

But if there were to be an

involvement of a foreign state,

0:42:590:43:05

evidenced by this investigation,

then obviously that would be very

0:43:050:43:09

serious indeed and the government

would respond appropriately.

You

0:43:090:43:13

might have heard Marina Litvinenko

was saying last time around the

0:43:130:43:16

response wasn't nearly strong

enough. In that context, I wonder

0:43:160:43:20

what you think now about the

Magnitsky Act proposal for much

0:43:200:43:24

stricter these are restrictions on

named individuals.

The proposals put

0:43:240:43:30

forward greater power we already

have. The Home Secretary already has

0:43:300:43:34

power to exclude individuals from

the UK if she believes their

0:43:340:43:37

presence here is not conducive to

our national security or the public

0:43:370:43:41

good. So it's not strictly

necessary. But we are seeking to

0:43:410:43:46

reach an accommodation with those

who have put this amendment forward.

0:43:460:43:48

Let's see if we can come to a

proposal that works for everyone.

0:43:480:43:54

You were there as Foreign Secretary

at the end of the Litvinenko

0:43:540:43:57

enquiry. You summoned in the Russian

ambassador at the time. Marina

0:43:570:44:02

Litvinenko suggests what you did was

not tough enough. What's your

0:44:020:44:05

message to her?

The enquiry took

some time and it was sometime after

0:44:050:44:12

the events before we had the

evidence from the enquiry, but we

0:44:120:44:16

took appropriate steps, measures

which are still in place today.

You

0:44:160:44:20

kicked out a couple of diplomats,

and that's about it.

But the

0:44:200:44:25

Russians have not complied with

their international obligations

0:44:250:44:27

despite being members of the

Security Council. They have

0:44:270:44:30

continued to protect those who we

seek to extradite in respect of the

0:44:300:44:35

murder of Mr Litvinenko.

And yet, in

a sense, they are laughing at us in

0:44:350:44:40

this country. They still think this

is a place where they can do what

0:44:400:44:44

they like without any serious

repercussions and London is still

0:44:440:44:47

one of the prime places for Russian

money to arrive. Do you need to look

0:44:470:44:50

at the whole thing again?

The police

enquiry and depth and detail, the

0:44:500:44:56

vast resources that have been

deployed and the high-level assets

0:44:560:45:03

that we have had to be able to make

these analyses show that nobody is

0:45:030:45:08

laughing at us. This is a very

serious investigation that's going

0:45:080:45:11

on and let's see where it leads us.

Your party has taken massive

0:45:110:45:16

donations from Russian oligarchs and

others. Is it time to hand them

0:45:160:45:19

back?

0:45:190:45:19

There are very strict rules about

donations to political parties. Only

0:45:240:45:30

British citizens can make donations

to political parties. All donations

0:45:300:45:33

are carefully vetted.

But the facts

have changed. Isn't it time to

0:45:330:45:40

change your mind?

There are people

in this country who are British

0:45:400:45:45

citizens who are of Russian origin.

I don't think we should tar them

0:45:450:45:49

with Putin's brush. We should

recognise that people come to this

0:45:490:45:56

country from many places, they

become British citizens, they live

0:45:560:45:59

under UK law, and they should have

full participation rights in our

0:45:590:46:04

society.

Light at the end of the

tunnel, a turning point for the

0:46:040:46:09

economy. You've given examples

0:46:090:46:16

economy. You've given examples about

wage growth, finally ending the

0:46:190:46:20

austerity years of paying back the

budget day by day, and all of that.

0:46:200:46:23

It feels like a really important

moment.

There is light at the end of

0:46:230:46:26

the tunnel because we are about to

see debt starting to fall after it's

0:46:260:46:30

been growing for 17 continuous

years. That's a very important

0:46:300:46:35

moment for us. But we are still in

the tunnel at the moment. We have to

0:46:350:46:41

get debt down. We have taken a

balanced approach over the last

0:46:410:46:47

couple of fiscal events, using

flexibility that we had to continue

0:46:470:46:51

paying down debt, but also to

provide additional support to our

0:46:510:46:56

public services, to invest in our

future and to reduce taxes for

0:46:560:47:00

families and small businesses who

are feeling it.

For the people who

0:47:000:47:05

are about to be hit with the next

round of welfare cuts, are you going

0:47:050:47:10

to be able to help them at all?

There has been speculation in the

0:47:100:47:14

media about what the OBR numbers

will be when they are published on

0:47:140:47:19

Tuesday. I suggest we wait until we

see the numbers. This is not a

0:47:190:47:23

fiscal event in itself. I will not

be making tax or spending

0:47:230:47:28

announcements on Tuesday. I will be

signalling some areas we want to

0:47:280:47:32

consult ahead of the budget in the

autumn. We should be very careful

0:47:320:47:37

looking at single sets of figures,

one or two quarters. We need to look

0:47:370:47:43

at what is happening sustainably in

the economy. If there is the

0:47:430:47:48

flexibility to do something, we will

decide in the autumn how we are

0:47:480:47:52

going to use that. We will continue

to take a balanced approach,

0:47:520:47:57

addressing the debt problem,

investing in Britain's future,

0:47:570:48:02

reducing taxes for hard-working

families and putting money into our

0:48:020:48:06

public services.

Is austerity over?

Most people take that to be a

0:48:060:48:13

reference to the public sector pay

cut, and we have removed the 1% cap

0:48:130:48:18

on public sector pay.

0:48:180:48:25

on public sector pay. We have an

agenda for staff in the NHS, which I

0:48:250:48:29

hope will lead to a pay settlement

which satisfies workers in the NHS

0:48:290:48:33

but is also fair to taxpayers,

because it tackled some of the

0:48:330:48:38

challenges we have in the NHS and

makes it more effective.

The working

0:48:380:48:44

families affected by these welfare

changes, £200 a year worse off on

0:48:440:48:49

average. That feels like no light at

the end of the tunnel for them. Can

0:48:490:48:55

I ask you about local authorities?

All across the country, both Tory

0:48:550:49:00

and Labour local authorities are

screaming with pain. They feel

0:49:000:49:04

austerity has been pushed to the

limits and they are, in the words of

0:49:040:49:10

one of your colleagues, facing a

financial precipice. Can you give

0:49:100:49:14

them some relief at last?

Just to be

clear, this is not a fiscal event. I

0:49:140:49:20

will not be making fiscal

announcements. Local authorities

0:49:200:49:24

have well over £200 billion of

course spending power over the

0:49:240:49:29

five-year period from 2015 to 2020.

They have reserves of £23 billion,

0:49:290:49:38

which is £8 billion higher than in

2010. Local authorities have done an

0:49:380:49:44

incredible job in delivering

efficiencies.

And they are now in

0:49:440:49:49

crisis.

We understand that they are

under pressures. At the spring

0:49:490:49:54

budget last year, I put an extra £2

billion into social care. We have

0:49:540:50:00

also given them greater flexibility

through the precept in the recent

0:50:000:50:06

local government settlement, so that

local authorities now have £9

0:50:060:50:11

billion worth of additional,

dedicated spending for social

0:50:110:50:14

services over the next three years.

That is an act chew aerial answer to

0:50:140:50:19

people who are screaming in pain, in

terms of a system at absolute

0:50:190:50:24

breaking point.

We understand there

are pressures in the system. We

0:50:240:50:30

discuss them with colleagues in

local government and in spending

0:50:300:50:35

departments across Whitehall. When

we get to the autumn budget, we will

0:50:350:50:39

look at the numbers there. I will be

paving the way in this autumn budget

0:50:390:50:44

for a spending review in 2019, which

will look at public spending from

0:50:440:50:50

2020 onwards, what the total

envelope should be, how we allocated

0:50:500:50:55

between departments and the local

government.

You are pushing off the

0:50:550:50:59

good news until closer to

0:50:590:51:06

good news until closer to the

general election. Can I ask you

0:51:080:51:10

about an important issue on the Tory

backbenches, defence spending. One

0:51:100:51:12

of your ministers has said that 2%

is not enough these days. The entire

0:51:120:51:15

military system is in real problems.

They need more tanks and planes. A

0:51:150:51:20

lot of your backbench colleagues are

determined that you have to do

0:51:200:51:24

something for them.

I was Defence

Secretary for nearly three years,

0:51:240:51:30

and I am full of admiration for the

Armed Forces and what they do to

0:51:300:51:34

keep Britain safe, and I understand

the complexity of the defence

0:51:340:51:40

budgets. Very long-term projects at

the cutting edge of technology. Some

0:51:400:51:44

of the media talk as if defence is

being cut. Let's be clear about the

0:51:440:51:50

facts. Defence will receive more

than £1 billion extra in each year

0:51:500:51:55

of this Parliament. It's the fastest

growing resource budget in

0:51:550:52:00

Whitehall. Defence is not being cut

by any means. I accept there are

0:52:000:52:05

pressures on defence, including

foreign exchange pressures, because

0:52:050:52:09

a lot of the military equipment we

use is bought in US dollars. The

0:52:090:52:15

Prime Minister has announced a

defence mechanisation programme,

0:52:150:52:19

where she and I and the Defence

Secretary are working closely and

0:52:190:52:24

looking at these challenges. We are

committed to making sure Britain is

0:52:240:52:29

always properly defended.

It sounds

like yet more jam tomorrow. Can I

0:52:290:52:34

reduce something that Nick Timothy

said? Mr Hammond must now declare an

0:52:340:52:40

end to austerity. The government has

achieved its surplus. It can now

0:52:400:52:45

invest in the economy in the

long-term and increase public

0:52:450:52:50

spending.

Nick Timothy is the debt.

We have a debt of 86.5% of our GDP.

0:52:500:53:00

All of the International

organisations recognise that is

0:53:000:53:02

higher than a safe level. This isn't

some ideological issue. It's about

0:53:020:53:07

making sure that we have the

capacity to respond to any future

0:53:070:53:12

shock to the economy. There will be

economic cycles in the future. We

0:53:120:53:17

need to be able to respond to them

without taking our debt over 100% of

0:53:170:53:24

GDP.

John Redwood spoke about the

debt, and said that this level of

0:53:240:53:31

debt is easily sustainable, and

suggested that the austerity

0:53:310:53:35

programme was a political choice,

not an economic essential one.

With

0:53:350:53:41

respect to John Redwood, I think he

is wrong. We have £65,000 worth of

0:53:410:53:48

public debt for every household in

this country. When I became

0:53:480:53:53

Chancellor, I changed the fiscal

rules. I said, we will tackle the

0:53:530:53:58

debt. We have to tackle the debt.

But we will spread out the time we

0:53:580:54:02

do it a bit further, creating more

flexibility, so that at the same

0:54:020:54:07

time as tackling the debt, we also

invest in Britain's future and put

0:54:070:54:14

money into the public services, and

relieve small businesses and

0:54:140:54:18

families with tax breaks. That's

what we've done and that's what we

0:54:180:54:22

intend to go on doing.

Is your real

message...

It's wrong to say that

0:54:220:54:29

every penny of capacity we have has

to go to bringing down debt, but

0:54:290:54:33

it's equally wrong that every penny

should go into additional public

0:54:330:54:39

spending.

I must ask you about

Brexit. It's going to be a complex

0:54:390:54:45

negotiation. The Prime Minister said

last week we would not get the full

0:54:450:54:49

amount of access to all markets we

have at the moment. You have a very

0:54:490:54:56

difficult negotiation over the

future of London and the financial

0:54:560:55:00

services. Is it worth it?

Yes.

Financial services is a very

0:55:000:55:05

important part of our economy.

Is

Brexit worth it, I mean?

The British

0:55:050:55:13

people have decided that we are

leaving the European Union, and that

0:55:130:55:16

is what we are doing. Our job is to

make sure we get the best possible

0:55:160:55:21

job for Britain, that we make a

smart Brexit, one that works for

0:55:210:55:28

Britain, British jobs and British

businesses, and that is what we are

0:55:280:55:31

all about.

Do you accept we are

going to take some kind of economic

0:55:310:55:36

hit, as Mr Tusk says?

He is a

negotiator, and on Wednesday he

0:55:360:55:44

didn't say anything I wouldn't

expect a skilled negotiator to say

0:55:440:55:48

at the beginning of the

negotiations. He basically said the

0:55:480:55:52

deal would have to contain none of

the things you want and all of the

0:55:520:55:56

things we want. That is an opening

negotiating position.

Looking at

0:55:560:56:00

what you have said about the

importance of the financial

0:56:000:56:05

services. You have said again and

again that this has to be part of a

0:56:050:56:09

fair deal. Is this at last a

government Red Line?

The Prime

0:56:090:56:16

Minister said clearly in her speech

that the way to negotiate

0:56:160:56:19

successfully with the Europeans is

not to threaten, not to talk about

0:56:190:56:23

walking away from tables or anything

like that, but to engage, to talk,

0:56:230:56:30

to explore the options. The reason I

think the financial services has to

0:56:300:56:34

be part of the deal is firstly, the

shape of Britain's economy. The

0:56:340:56:40

services are very part of our

economy, and this needs to be part

0:56:400:56:50

of it. Secondly, the financial

system in London is an asset of

0:56:500:56:55

Europe as a whole. £1.1 trillion

worth of loans to European companies

0:56:550:57:00

facilitated through the City of

London. A vast proportion of

0:57:000:57:06

transactions go through the City of

London.

You know they are thinking

0:57:060:57:10

differently. The French have said we

are not going to get this kind of

0:57:100:57:13

deal. If we get a deal that doesn't

include the financial services, that

0:57:130:57:18

would be an unfair or a bad deal?

I

don't accept that premise. I think

0:57:180:57:24

we will get a deal on financial

services, but the

0:57:240:57:38

question is how? What kind of access

we are able to negotiate

0:57:410:57:43

reciprocally. Many European banks

operate in London as part of

0:57:430:57:45

London's financial services.

At

least we know what the government

0:57:450:57:48

want out of the negotiations. How do

you modelled the economic effect of

0:57:480:57:51

that?

We haven't embarked on the

negotiation yet. The next step in

0:57:510:58:00

the process at the European Council

next month is to hopefully agree the

0:58:000:58:04

implementation period, so that

businesses can plan over the next

0:58:040:58:08

three years with certainty. Then we

will get the guidelines from the

0:58:080:58:12

European Union for the next phase of

negotiation. Then we start talking

0:58:120:58:15

with them about the shape of a

future partnership, which will cover

0:58:150:58:22

economics, trade, investment, but

also security, domestic and external

0:58:220:58:27

security. Once we know what the deal

looks like, we will certainly model

0:58:270:58:32

it.

Chancellor, thank you very much

indeed. Now look at what's coming up

0:58:320:58:38

straight after this programme.

Join

us from Newport were after a week of

0:58:380:58:44

schmoozing the Saudi prince we ask,

should Britain be proud of its air

0:58:440:58:50

trade? And Public Health England

says we are far too fat and getting

0:58:500:58:54

bigger. Is be city a matter of

personal choice or is it a matter of

0:58:540:58:59

interest for the government?

That's

all from us this week. Thanks to all

0:58:590:59:04

my guess is, and happy Mother's Day.

0:59:040:59:13

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