25/08/2014 The Papers


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Now on BBC News, let's cross live to Glasgow for Scotland Decides `


Debate Review, with Gavin Elser. Welcome to historic Kelvingrove Art


Gallery and Museum, the venue for what has been a very feisty


head`to`head between First Minister Alex Salmond and leader of the


Better Together campaign, Alistair Darling. A very feisty debate took


place between Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling. With me are


Kevin, from the Observer. You were meaning yes recently. And


broadcaster, Katy, who is a definite no. We go through the papers and get


a flavour of what some of them are saying. The FT give some prominence


to that debate and says that the clash between Alex Salmond and


Alistair Darling was a feisty one. The Guardian has the same story on


the front page. The accusation by Scotland's first minister that


Alistair Darling sided with the Tories. That's the headline. It


claims there was a somewhat bloody confrontation and we will pick up


those things in a moment. The Daily Telegraph says that Alex Salmond was


said to be gambling the future of Scottish children, because it was


claimed he wouldn't be able to balance the books. The Mirror has


the British nurse Will Pooley who caught it all in Sierra Leone and is


now being treated in London. He is now being treated in London. He is


convinced doctors will save his life. The Daily Mail warns that


saviours will start `` savers will start putting their money under the


mattress again if the taxman is successful in taking money from


people's bank accounts. Moving on to the Express, which says David


Cameron has promised to go on the defensive as part of his campaign to


win power is back from Brussels, as he tries to create a new


relationship with Europe. The Times says Mr Salmond staged a "remarkable


comeback" in the second televised debate. Many commentators believe he


lost out to Mr Darling in the first round. And the Scottish version of


The Daily Telegraph also claims that Scotland's First Minister led a


fight back. What did you make of the overall theme? The general view


appears to be that, in terms of the debate at least, Alex Salmond on. I


would say that in terms of the debate, Alex Salmond did win it. But


when you look at the audience, the wide audience, what they were really


pitching four was the undecided voter. But neither did much for the


undecided voter because it was just two men shouting at each other. It


was likely. Do you think it changed anyone's mines? Who knows? Only


three weeks to go. `` minds? I think Alex Salmond would have referred to


in the second debate, closer to the referendum. It was over 1.5 hours of


debate. Things are going to get feisty. I'm not entirely sure they


were much more feisty in the first debate. There was a degree of them


talking over each other and of course we had that in previous


debates. This is to be expected. The stakes are very high, it is


emotional and impassioned. That's come across in the coverage of the


papers that we are looking at. There were no breaks in this one. What we


got was 1.5 hours of the debate, without any kind of let up. That


perhaps made it seem more aggressive and more feisty and noisy. Let's


have a look at the Scottish Telegraph. The headline says, sound


and fury as Scotland fights buck. It also has, Kevin, there's still no


answer to who will the bills. This strikes me. Going up Scotland,


people say they want more information. There's been a lot of


information out there but it seems some people still think we don't


know whose sums add up. This is quite a regular choke of the


Telegraph, being the flagship of the Unionist newspapers. They are going


reheat that argument. I thought Alex Salmond did much better on


currency, where he struggled the last time. I'm not sure he


absolutely answered the question of plan B but he did come up with a


better narrative. I thought it was quite skilful for him to put


Alistair Darling on the back foot by saying that in the one point `` 1.5


years of negotiations following a possible yes vote, will Alistair


Darling be fighting to Scotland's best interests. Not just the first


minister and yes campaign but various independent financial


academics have said a currency union is the best for the UK. That's an


interesting point and it was something picked up at least in time


at one Alex Salmond said at the end that if it's a no vote I will accept


it, if it's a yes vote it is keen Scotland and we would like great


players of a team like Alistair Darling. I thought that was a rather


further movement, to try to bring him onto his team. Alex Salmond is


great with the lines, at Alistair Darling pointed out. He has very


good lines but not that many answers. I thought that was but that


was perhaps quite heartening and a very clever move by Alex Salmond.


The yes campaign has been very clever. And this in a very clever


move by Alex Salmond. The yes campaign has been very clever. Heavy


are you yes, yet? They want to suggest we will all be together when


it is done. But I do feel we didn't get many answers and, unlike Kevin,


the currency thing is a big thing, perhaps there was too much made of


it in this debate when there were other things we could not spoken


about, but it is still true that if we have a currency union the Bank of


England will set interest rates and restrict Scottish independence. This


is something which Alex Salmond never addresses. He just talks about


the currency as if it were just the pound in your pocket. I would have


liked to see the first minister say that, yes, I do take some of Katy's


points, but in Scotland there are almost 1 million people living below


the poverty line. Including 250,000 children in Glasgow, this city. For


these people, issues regarding the currency. Of. They will take any


currency that allows them access to it. `` currency... They will take


any. If they can get out, they could end up deciding the destination of


this. That's an interesting point. Let's have a look at the Times'


headline. It says that Alex Salmond strikes back. It was something Alex


Salmond suggested was something that needed questioning. He said, how


many people would be in poverty? That plays a chord with a lot of


people in the middle who have not yet made up their minds. Alex


Salmond really, as the Times says, he really picked up on this debate


and he had thought very carefully about what the sorts of things work


that would put Alistair Darling on the back foot. He couldn't answer


how many people were in poverty, Mr Darling. Even though most


journalists wouldn't have a clue. Yes... But when you are debating


Alex Salmond... You know! I thought Alex Salmond came into this debate


determined not to lose. How do you win? You can make one point bye


asking a question you know your opponent will not know. `` by


asking. The Guardian is in a similar area. This is a point that really


does play into this narrative we are talking about. It is pretty hard in


a country where, although there are many Conservative voters but few


Conservative MPs in Westminster, they won. This could be a fatal


tactical error by the Labour Party in Scotland and England. I believe


that at the outset of this campaign, if the Labour Party had


refused to share a platform with the Conservatives, knowing that


emotionally it would have a negative impact on the Scottish electorate,


if the Labour Party had decoupled itself from the Conservative side


and said, we will guarantee this but here specifically the powers we will


give to Holyrood. We are talking in terms of the last figure I saw,


again I don't know how scientific these are, more than 30% of the


Labour Party voters are going to vote yes. If that's true, most of


those voters wouldn't be voting yes if their own party had not sided


with the Conservatives and had said we will guarantee extra powers and


here is what they are. I thought, Katy, this section, where constantly


the first minister was seen to Alistair Darling, you are basically


a Tory, you signed on to this, which of course Alistair Darling did we


present, that was a very songs `` strong section for the first


minister. I thought it was strong and unfair. I thought it was unfair


and I thought what Alistair Darling did, which I felt unattractive


will, was to go on and on. `` Alex Salmond did. He didn't let Alistair


Darling reply. Perhaps to some that was effective but it wasn't me. One


of the things that really puts me off his style of debating is that he


doesn't even acknowledge that there is any risk, that things might be


difficult in Scotland, that there might be difficult decisions to take


about where money goes and where it is spent and that I don't find at


all reassuring. I think that if Alex Salmond did say in independent


Scotland things might be difficult for bit, then I think that maybe I


There is a terrible mixup here There is a terrible mixup here


always between party policy and the independence debate and we saw that


in the white paper, where some of it was just SNP policy and other stuff


was about independence. We saw that leaking into the debate, where


Alistair Darling wasn't allowed by Alex Salmond to be at Labour Party


politician. He was just in bed with everybody who was in the Better


Together campaign. We also have a headline from the Scotsman. I have


it here. It says, the heat turned up in seconds TV debate. The final


debate sparked heated exchanges last night as the countdown to September


the 18th intensified. There we have it. There's a picture of the two


men. I was all this `` also struck that Alistair Darling constantly


raised doubts, used the word risks are lot. The first minister had to


talk more in terms of certainties. That presumably is because you were


selling in a sense the unknown, selling what could be seen as a more


exciting way forward because it will have more risks, but you have to be


seen to be certain about it. I can see Alex Salmond's points, he does


have two stage manage the events like this. But, on the other hand, I


was disappointed with Alistair Darling because they feel that even


if I do divide `` do decide to vote yes, I personally could come up with


a dozen better reasons to stay in the union then I've heard from


Alistair Darling over two debates. Go on! , with a couple. I like


England and I like English people. I've worked in England, England is


one of the best countries in the world. We have so much shared


history, so much shared culture. Everywhere you look, as well as a


shared language. We've been through a lot together through thick and


thin but it's whether you think that some of the institutions of the


union which have served both countries quite well over the last


300 and odd years have now perhaps run their course. And whether you


think Scotland now has got more confidence in the economy and much


of that has been derived from a very successful running of the devolution


project and also because roughly, since Margaret Thatcher's time,


Scotland's voting parties have diverged from England. It is a more


different country than it was before.


Another lifeline may be thrown by independence, if it comes. Voting


patterns will then change again. I agree with Kevin, I could have


thought up the masses of reasons to stay in the union. They will have to


be an immigration border, if immigration policy diverges from


England's. England will become a competitor, not a partner. There are


lots of reasons to remain in the union, not one of which, I quite


agree with, was put into Alistair Darling's closing statement, because


I think a good case can be made for the union, so it is a shame. You


have been covering this for a long time. The final straight, three


weeks ago. That is a normal British general election campaign, and we


know things can change completely. We see what the polls say, not about


who won tonight, but we see that they show yes is significantly


behind. I think the Nationalists will point to 2011, when with four


or five weeks to go the Labour Party in Scotland was 15 or 16 points


ahead. At that point, the strategists were saying that their


own internal polling was showing something much more optimistic, to


the extent that even the first minister himself said he didn't feel


he could trust his own internal polling. Until that night, when


every single aspect of the Holyrood system was overthrown. Remember, the


Holyrood system must established to prevent one party having an overall


majority. That happened, despite the fact there were 15 points in it with


three or four weeks ago. They have had a more strong and smooth


electoral machine, and they seem to have something that the no campaign


don't have, which is reaching the undecided people. They seem to have


more information. They have been very organised in doing that, and


have a very well`run system doing that. They have been well organised


the yes campaigners are noisier, they are noisier because they have


something to prove, somewhere to go. There will be a lot of silent Better


Together voters who haven't yet said anything. When people go to the


door, they think, we don't know, but I think in fact they will vote no,


because it is quite difficult in Scotland at the moment to say you


are going to vote no. It sounds very negative. I would say that last week


will incredibly important. Just three weeks to go. I get my personal


vote tomorrow. That's right, so some votes will be in by the end of the


week. We will keep you up`to`date with all of the developments on the


news channel, and on the BBC website.


We will have 20 more coverage on the debate, here on BBC News, not just


tonight but into tomorrow


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