25/08/2014 The Papers


25/08/2014

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Now on BBC News, let's cross live to Glasgow for Scotland Decides `

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Debate Review, with Gavin Elser. Welcome to historic Kelvingrove Art

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Gallery and Museum, the venue for what has been a very feisty

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head`to`head between First Minister Alex Salmond and leader of the

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Better Together campaign, Alistair Darling. A very feisty debate took

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place between Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling. With me are

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Kevin, from the Observer. You were meaning yes recently. And

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broadcaster, Katy, who is a definite no. We go through the papers and get

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a flavour of what some of them are saying. The FT give some prominence

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to that debate and says that the clash between Alex Salmond and

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Alistair Darling was a feisty one. The Guardian has the same story on

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the front page. The accusation by Scotland's first minister that

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Alistair Darling sided with the Tories. That's the headline. It

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claims there was a somewhat bloody confrontation and we will pick up

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those things in a moment. The Daily Telegraph says that Alex Salmond was

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said to be gambling the future of Scottish children, because it was

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claimed he wouldn't be able to balance the books. The Mirror has

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the British nurse Will Pooley who caught it all in Sierra Leone and is

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now being treated in London. He is now being treated in London. He is

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convinced doctors will save his life. The Daily Mail warns that

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saviours will start `` savers will start putting their money under the

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mattress again if the taxman is successful in taking money from

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people's bank accounts. Moving on to the Express, which says David

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Cameron has promised to go on the defensive as part of his campaign to

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win power is back from Brussels, as he tries to create a new

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relationship with Europe. The Times says Mr Salmond staged a "remarkable

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comeback" in the second televised debate. Many commentators believe he

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lost out to Mr Darling in the first round. And the Scottish version of

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The Daily Telegraph also claims that Scotland's First Minister led a

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fight back. What did you make of the overall theme? The general view

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appears to be that, in terms of the debate at least, Alex Salmond on. I

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would say that in terms of the debate, Alex Salmond did win it. But

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when you look at the audience, the wide audience, what they were really

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pitching four was the undecided voter. But neither did much for the

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undecided voter because it was just two men shouting at each other. It

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was likely. Do you think it changed anyone's mines? Who knows? Only

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three weeks to go. `` minds? I think Alex Salmond would have referred to

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in the second debate, closer to the referendum. It was over 1.5 hours of

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debate. Things are going to get feisty. I'm not entirely sure they

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were much more feisty in the first debate. There was a degree of them

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talking over each other and of course we had that in previous

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debates. This is to be expected. The stakes are very high, it is

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emotional and impassioned. That's come across in the coverage of the

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papers that we are looking at. There were no breaks in this one. What we

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got was 1.5 hours of the debate, without any kind of let up. That

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perhaps made it seem more aggressive and more feisty and noisy. Let's

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have a look at the Scottish Telegraph. The headline says, sound

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and fury as Scotland fights buck. It also has, Kevin, there's still no

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answer to who will the bills. This strikes me. Going up Scotland,

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people say they want more information. There's been a lot of

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information out there but it seems some people still think we don't

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know whose sums add up. This is quite a regular choke of the

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Telegraph, being the flagship of the Unionist newspapers. They are going

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reheat that argument. I thought Alex Salmond did much better on

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currency, where he struggled the last time. I'm not sure he

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absolutely answered the question of plan B but he did come up with a

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better narrative. I thought it was quite skilful for him to put

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Alistair Darling on the back foot by saying that in the one point `` 1.5

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years of negotiations following a possible yes vote, will Alistair

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Darling be fighting to Scotland's best interests. Not just the first

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minister and yes campaign but various independent financial

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academics have said a currency union is the best for the UK. That's an

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interesting point and it was something picked up at least in time

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at one Alex Salmond said at the end that if it's a no vote I will accept

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it, if it's a yes vote it is keen Scotland and we would like great

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players of a team like Alistair Darling. I thought that was a rather

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further movement, to try to bring him onto his team. Alex Salmond is

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great with the lines, at Alistair Darling pointed out. He has very

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good lines but not that many answers. I thought that was but that

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was perhaps quite heartening and a very clever move by Alex Salmond.

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The yes campaign has been very clever. And this in a very clever

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move by Alex Salmond. The yes campaign has been very clever. Heavy

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are you yes, yet? They want to suggest we will all be together when

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it is done. But I do feel we didn't get many answers and, unlike Kevin,

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the currency thing is a big thing, perhaps there was too much made of

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it in this debate when there were other things we could not spoken

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about, but it is still true that if we have a currency union the Bank of

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England will set interest rates and restrict Scottish independence. This

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is something which Alex Salmond never addresses. He just talks about

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the currency as if it were just the pound in your pocket. I would have

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liked to see the first minister say that, yes, I do take some of Katy's

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points, but in Scotland there are almost 1 million people living below

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the poverty line. Including 250,000 children in Glasgow, this city. For

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these people, issues regarding the currency. Of. They will take any

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currency that allows them access to it. `` currency... They will take

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any. If they can get out, they could end up deciding the destination of

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this. That's an interesting point. Let's have a look at the Times'

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headline. It says that Alex Salmond strikes back. It was something Alex

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Salmond suggested was something that needed questioning. He said, how

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many people would be in poverty? That plays a chord with a lot of

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people in the middle who have not yet made up their minds. Alex

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Salmond really, as the Times says, he really picked up on this debate

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and he had thought very carefully about what the sorts of things work

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that would put Alistair Darling on the back foot. He couldn't answer

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how many people were in poverty, Mr Darling. Even though most

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journalists wouldn't have a clue. Yes... But when you are debating

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Alex Salmond... You know! I thought Alex Salmond came into this debate

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determined not to lose. How do you win? You can make one point bye

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asking a question you know your opponent will not know. `` by

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asking. The Guardian is in a similar area. This is a point that really

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does play into this narrative we are talking about. It is pretty hard in

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a country where, although there are many Conservative voters but few

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Conservative MPs in Westminster, they won. This could be a fatal

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tactical error by the Labour Party in Scotland and England. I believe

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that at the outset of this campaign, if the Labour Party had

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refused to share a platform with the Conservatives, knowing that

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emotionally it would have a negative impact on the Scottish electorate,

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if the Labour Party had decoupled itself from the Conservative side

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and said, we will guarantee this but here specifically the powers we will

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give to Holyrood. We are talking in terms of the last figure I saw,

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again I don't know how scientific these are, more than 30% of the

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Labour Party voters are going to vote yes. If that's true, most of

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those voters wouldn't be voting yes if their own party had not sided

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with the Conservatives and had said we will guarantee extra powers and

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here is what they are. I thought, Katy, this section, where constantly

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the first minister was seen to Alistair Darling, you are basically

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a Tory, you signed on to this, which of course Alistair Darling did we

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present, that was a very songs `` strong section for the first

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minister. I thought it was strong and unfair. I thought it was unfair

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and I thought what Alistair Darling did, which I felt unattractive

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will, was to go on and on. `` Alex Salmond did. He didn't let Alistair

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Darling reply. Perhaps to some that was effective but it wasn't me. One

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of the things that really puts me off his style of debating is that he

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doesn't even acknowledge that there is any risk, that things might be

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difficult in Scotland, that there might be difficult decisions to take

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about where money goes and where it is spent and that I don't find at

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all reassuring. I think that if Alex Salmond did say in independent

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Scotland things might be difficult for bit, then I think that maybe I

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There is a terrible mixup here There is a terrible mixup here

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always between party policy and the independence debate and we saw that

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in the white paper, where some of it was just SNP policy and other stuff

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was about independence. We saw that leaking into the debate, where

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Alistair Darling wasn't allowed by Alex Salmond to be at Labour Party

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politician. He was just in bed with everybody who was in the Better

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Together campaign. We also have a headline from the Scotsman. I have

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it here. It says, the heat turned up in seconds TV debate. The final

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debate sparked heated exchanges last night as the countdown to September

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the 18th intensified. There we have it. There's a picture of the two

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men. I was all this `` also struck that Alistair Darling constantly

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raised doubts, used the word risks are lot. The first minister had to

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talk more in terms of certainties. That presumably is because you were

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selling in a sense the unknown, selling what could be seen as a more

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exciting way forward because it will have more risks, but you have to be

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seen to be certain about it. I can see Alex Salmond's points, he does

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have two stage manage the events like this. But, on the other hand, I

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was disappointed with Alistair Darling because they feel that even

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if I do divide `` do decide to vote yes, I personally could come up with

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a dozen better reasons to stay in the union then I've heard from

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Alistair Darling over two debates. Go on! , with a couple. I like

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England and I like English people. I've worked in England, England is

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one of the best countries in the world. We have so much shared

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history, so much shared culture. Everywhere you look, as well as a

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shared language. We've been through a lot together through thick and

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thin but it's whether you think that some of the institutions of the

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union which have served both countries quite well over the last

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300 and odd years have now perhaps run their course. And whether you

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think Scotland now has got more confidence in the economy and much

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of that has been derived from a very successful running of the devolution

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project and also because roughly, since Margaret Thatcher's time,

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Scotland's voting parties have diverged from England. It is a more

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different country than it was before.

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Another lifeline may be thrown by independence, if it comes. Voting

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patterns will then change again. I agree with Kevin, I could have

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thought up the masses of reasons to stay in the union. They will have to

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be an immigration border, if immigration policy diverges from

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England's. England will become a competitor, not a partner. There are

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lots of reasons to remain in the union, not one of which, I quite

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agree with, was put into Alistair Darling's closing statement, because

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I think a good case can be made for the union, so it is a shame. You

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have been covering this for a long time. The final straight, three

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weeks ago. That is a normal British general election campaign, and we

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know things can change completely. We see what the polls say, not about

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who won tonight, but we see that they show yes is significantly

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behind. I think the Nationalists will point to 2011, when with four

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or five weeks to go the Labour Party in Scotland was 15 or 16 points

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ahead. At that point, the strategists were saying that their

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own internal polling was showing something much more optimistic, to

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the extent that even the first minister himself said he didn't feel

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he could trust his own internal polling. Until that night, when

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every single aspect of the Holyrood system was overthrown. Remember, the

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Holyrood system must established to prevent one party having an overall

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majority. That happened, despite the fact there were 15 points in it with

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three or four weeks ago. They have had a more strong and smooth

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electoral machine, and they seem to have something that the no campaign

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don't have, which is reaching the undecided people. They seem to have

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more information. They have been very organised in doing that, and

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have a very well`run system doing that. They have been well organised

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the yes campaigners are noisier, they are noisier because they have

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something to prove, somewhere to go. There will be a lot of silent Better

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Together voters who haven't yet said anything. When people go to the

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door, they think, we don't know, but I think in fact they will vote no,

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because it is quite difficult in Scotland at the moment to say you

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are going to vote no. It sounds very negative. I would say that last week

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will incredibly important. Just three weeks to go. I get my personal

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vote tomorrow. That's right, so some votes will be in by the end of the

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week. We will keep you up`to`date with all of the developments on the

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news channel, and on the BBC website.

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We will have 20 more coverage on the debate, here on BBC News, not just

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tonight but into tomorrow

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