22/11/2015 The Papers


No need to wait until tomorrow morning to see what's in the papers - Martine Croxall presents a lively and informed conversation about the next day's headlines.

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Four Britons who died in a helicopter crash on holiday in New


Zealand have been named as Nigel and Helen Charlton, and Katharine Walker


Two Australian holiday-makers and the pilot were also killed


Hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the papers


Thank you to our guests for joining us this evening. Time for a look at


the front pages. for more cuts to fund an extra ?12


billion for the Defence Department. The Times also looks at the issue


of defence and says that fighting terrorism


will be at the heart of the ?178 The Telegraph says the Army is to be


restructured to create two strike brigades who can be deployed


immediately to fight terrorists. And the Mirror also goes with


that story, focusing on the 10,000 strike force that


can be deployed at short notice. The i claims that


the government may rethink its ?10 billion surplus pledge to


fund a tax-credit climbdown. The Guardian leads with


the news that Brussels faces an unprecedented security lockdown


because of a serious and imminent The Daily Mail splashes


on the refusal of leading UK cinemas to show an


advert featuring the Lord's Prayer. Let us begin with the Times.


Cameron's ?178 billion overhaul of UK defence military spending by four


strikes vote. -- before air strikes vote. Two major themes in this


story. ?178 billion over ten years. ?12 billion for equipment. The RAF


will emerge as the winner, it says. New aircraft operating by 2023. The


other thing that is coming out very strongly is that it is likely Jeremy


Corbyn will be forced to offer a free vote on bombing in Syria. He is


against bombing ISIS in Syria and had previously said he would not


offer a free vote, but a number of his senior lieutenants are making


the case. We will come back to Corbyn in a moment because he is on


the front page of the Independent as well, but it is not as if the


Ministry of Defence will be completely saved from any cuts...


Like any other department. Money is tight. The Chancellor does need to


find money from somewhere. The RAF is very pleased with the money they


are getting. But we will not see any of that equipment anytime soon, so


it will not help with any possible potential air strikes on Syria. The


rapid deployment capability that we have never had in Britain is what


much of this money will fund. That is important in terms of our defence


capabilities. It is in line with the Prime Minister's objective to meet


the Nato defence target. However, I do wonder where this money is coming


from. We are trying to get the balance and surplus in our budget


and we are still trying to deal with austerity. This money could be well


spent on police, welfare and the NHS, all of which have had to be


cut. Nine days ago, these attacks have changed so much. It has been a


dramatic, seminal, watershed moment. But this thing about the


budget... Given that they are spending on defence and security and


a number of other things, it is entirely possible that George


Osborne will renege on his commitment to create a ?10 billion


surplus in the budget by 2020 and that might be one way of doing


something that is also of great political importance for him and the


government, Kim as a potential -- him as a potential successor to


David Cameron, which is back away from the scandalously tough policies


on family tax credits. 10,000 elite troops to fight ISIS. Be


restructuring of the army to create two strike forces that can be


deployed very quickly. This is the point. This is unprecedented. We


have never had Army dealing with crises in this way. In terms of


physical numbers, it is important. But also in terms of what this means


for our army, which has been cut in recent years. How likely is it that


we will have more troops? Or will it be a reorganisation of what we


already have? There are two stories about 10,000 troops. Wonders about


the deployment of troops overseas. The other is 10,000 troops within


the country so that if you have some of these religious fanatics getting


into the country with weapons, God forbid, they will be able to deploy


soldiers to combat them in addition to the fact that they are training


medics with expertise in bullet wounds and all sorts of things so


that if this does happen, we will have a much more adequate and


efficient response. Russia has been increasing spending while that in


the UK is contracting. We will need those soldiers if we have fewer


police. Someone has to police our streets. I think that it is the same


number, 10,000, for domestic and internal deployment. ?178 billion


will go a long way to making that more balanced. Something quite


interesting and ironic in a number of these stories is the way that


David Cameron is going to position the spending. It is to do with ISIS


and Russia. Ins the battle against ISIS, we will be alive with Russia


but in other areas, we will be against Russia. It shows the


kaleidoscopic complexity... That is a long word but I understand it.


Lockdown in Brussels over terror threats. Armed patrols on the


streets of the capital. We are expecting a press conference coming


out but right now, it is just an empty table with microphones. We are


waiting for some of the authorities, potentially the federal


prosecutor, to appear at that table very soon and tell us what has been


going on. Extraordinarily eerie pictures coming out of Brussels


tonight. People have been told to keep away from the windows and the


Metro will not be running tomorrow. Brussels is very small but has lots


of public space for people. Schools, universities, transport will be


closed. President Obama said we should not succumb to this but in


Brussels, people are not allowed to go about their normal lives because


they are genuinely afraid. They have been told not to go out to concerts


or bars. We are just having a look at these pictures. These are the


live pictures. We're hoping that we will have some translation because


they will probably be speaking Flemish or French and I don't think


I can help you out with either. We will come back to that when we get


some translation. We understand there may have been a number of


arrests this evening in Brussels. We need to get clarification on how


many there were and who was arrested. Of course, they are


searching at the moment force an avid Slam, who is thought to have


been one of the men who intended to blow himself up outside the national


stadium in France nine days ago. -- sana -- Salah Abdeslam.


We are doing this in the interests of the ongoing investigation. And


with the French as well. We think they will speak in English as well


but at the moment, we are listening to this in Flemish was it the answer


languages spoken in Belgium, French as well, so we might be hearing


things in all three, which could prolong things a bit. The Belgian


federal prosecutor has said so far that 16 people have been arrested


during a raid in Brussels. When we get the translation, we will find


out exactly where, because earlier in the evening, we were watching


pictures of a street that is close to the main square, and it looked


like a boss was being used to block the street -- bus. There was some


police activity. But the street was completely deserted besides two of


the policemen and then it was all suddenly wrapped up. We understand


that 16 people have been arrested. Two shots were fired on a vehicle in


Molenbeek, this area of Brussels that has been under constant


surveillance since those Paris attacks. It is thought that some of


the attackers had connections with Molenbeek. Three houses were


searched in another area as well, which is where one of the airports


is. Prosecutors say they did not find Salah Abdeslam, who is the


person they have been looking for since the attacks happened in Paris.


We will come back once we get something in English but we will


just take a look at the Guardian. Lockdown in Brussels. And that will


continue tomorrow. Schools shut and Metro closed full of no one is going


anywhere tomorrow. You can understand why they are jittery.


This was almost certainly the logistical command centre for the


atrocity and there has clearly been a fast security operation. It is


difficult to say whether it was right to shut down the entire


Western European capital because we have not seen the intelligence upon


which the decision was made, but what strikes me is the vital


importance of the flow of information between European


security services. The intelligence has to be brought together because


these fanatics do not respect national borders whatsoever. And one


hopes that these arrests will have caught the sleeper cell that was


clearly operating in the middle of Europe. We are just waiting to see


if we have any translation because we have a different official who is


speaking, this time in French. TRANSLATION: The Brussels


prosecutor, the anti-terror prosecution, executed 19 raids this


Saturday evening in the Brussels region. These raids took place in


Molenbeek, Anderlecht... There were three other raids. 16 people were


taken into custody. The judge will decide tomorrow whether or not they


should be detained further. During a raid on a snack bar in Molenbeek, a


vehicle was driven at the police. Police opened fire twice. The


vehicle was able to escape but was later stopped in Brussels. An


injured man in the car was arrested. It is impossible to say at


the moment whether or not there is a link between these arrests and the


investigation is under way. The other raids happened without great


incident. The identity of the people who were arrested, we cannot give


more information about them yet. No arms or explosives were found. Salah


Abdeslam was not intercepted during these raids. There will have to be


further actions on Sunday evening. The investigation will continue. We


cannot give you more information at this time. The police and the


authorities would like to thank the media and social media users for


having followed our request not to publish details of the police


operation. The Brussels a special investigator ordered a total of 19


households such as in the Brussels region. These researchers took place


in Molenbeek, Anderlecht and other locations. There were also three


house searches... In total, 16 persons were arrested. Just


recapping there on those details. 19 raids carried out in Brussels. 16


arrests. Properties were searched, two shots fired, vehicle drove at


police, and later that vehicle was stopped again. It was delivered by a


moon -- man who was wounded. It is not clear if there is any link with


the attacks that happened in Paris. Salah Abdeslam, the man they have


been looking for, was not among the 16 people arrested. The judge will


decide tomorrow whether those people need to remain in custody. If


anything else comes out of this press conference in Brussels, we


will bring it to you. Will move on and talk about the


independent. This is not what you expect from your own party. Not from


a leader who was voted in from popular mechanism. Clearly, they are


not happy with their leader. They are taken to Facebook this weekend


to suggest that it is time all of the bitterness stops because it is


creating chaos and not helping the party. People should get on with it


and the backbenches should actually deal with it that he is here to stay


for a long time and support his measures. I think that's got to be


hard for a lot of Labour MPs, because a lot of them don't back


him. It is a bit hard to know how you deal with this issue when you've


only been in the post for a few weeks. Not even 100 days, is it? No.


I ran for the Labour Party back in the day. But there has always been


an extraordinary divide. They are very far to the left of most members


of Parliament, and most members of Parliament pretend they are very


left wing to get selected and start moving to the right to get elected.


What has happened, you are right, there is an overwhelming support of


him from his convictions and his left-wing credentials, but I don't


think this is just symbolic. They're not sniping for political


machination. This is a fundamental disagreement about what the Labour


Party is for stopping is not going to go away. Until they come up with


a better alternative, they have to accept that this man is their


leader. He's the person that one and that is reality is. Does he have to


get out if there is a vote on his strikes? Competitor to years ago


when it was more about regime change, it is now regarded as a


threat to our national security. The indications are that he will get


around that through a free vote. You have to take your party with you and


you have to understand there's going to be issues. And whether a free


vote will allow that to take lace, along with dissension and accepting


that this is is a reality is importance of blue I feel that


Jeremy Corbyn is right with his reluctance in Syria because he is


worried that it will feed into this persuasive narrative. These are


Crusaders attacking Islam. He is worried that airstrikes alone will


not defeat Islamic State. Summing that is backed by a lot of people in


the military and it will propagate more fundamental radicalisation is.


A lot of people are saying that it just cements more problems and


brings terror to this country if we get involved. There has to be a Post


a strike plan and surely that has to involve the Arab states? We know


that militarily these things cannot be forged. Diplomacy is going to


have to be put into full swing. If you even go to militarily spot as


you are still going to have to deal with the aftermath and that requires


good international relations. The Arab states need to get involved


because it has to be good for their region. Look at how impractical that


is going to be, the West and the UK to not want Assad to be part of the


post-war negotiations. What Jeremy Corbyn is saying is that us sort out


the political response and find out what we're looking to achieve in


that country before we start bombing and radicalising the country. It was


inevitable that the call of a strike could grow in the light of what


happened in Mali, and much closer to home, in Paris. Sure, that does not


mean it is the right response. It is natural for people to say we need to


do something about this, but that does not always mean military


action. Diplomacy, if given time and space can work. Even if we do invade


Syria, long-term the real politics of the situation need to be solved.


The complexity of the tribal structures, the tenuous as of the


Borders in that part of the world almost every time we have had an


intention based on a particular reaction the unintended consequences


have overwhelmed what we expected. We need to bear that in mind in


whatever we decide to do. Let us look at the Financial Times, a $550


billion deal to create the world 's largest drug maker. This is


something unprecedented. Bill Gates said that if you want to move


industry in the future there is health, energy and innovation. And


this is the biggest health deal ever on our books. It will be the biggest


measure to come into the United Kingdom, in the United States and


Ireland. We spent a lot of time talking that how taxes are going to


pay for defence, NHS and now we have big corporations run to avoid tax,


we do need to think about this. How does is passed down mergers and


acquisitions regulations if we allow this to happen? They are going to


avoid paying 128 alien pounds of overseas tax. They will have a lower


tax threshold all over. A disco to show the tax policy of individual


nations, and the only way it becomes pay their taxes in an international


agreement. We do require drug companies to find ways to treat us.


Because governments are doing that because they are dwarfed by the


private sector. But they don't get let off on tax on this scale. Just


because you provide a service does not mean you get to pay taxes. Then


you enter services like Facebook and Google were they don't need to pay


taxes. Let us face with the Daily Mail, hypocrisy in the cinemas.


They've and the churches video of the Lord's prayer yet allow violent


video games to be shown to children. Discuss. This is an


interesting story because digital media has banned this advert, in my


mind outrageously, because they are worried that it will offend the


sensibilities of those coming in to watch the screening of the next Star


Wars film. What they are saying, quite legitimately with the support


of other religious leaders, and in deed, Richard Dawkins the arch


atheist of Western culture. I have some sympathy with that. I don't


believe in religion for one moment, my personal view is that it is all a


fairytale, but they should have the right to advertise if other people


are allowed to advertise discuss. I agree. Freedom of speech is not a


discussion this is an agreement. Is a row to Christmas, it is a possible


show, and it is a great marketing ploy to talk about faith. It is


unprecedented to do it in the cinema, but I would like to think


who they think they are going to offend? There is no survey been


done. Some good synergy between religion and the religious symbolism


of the force. Is not often that religious people and Richard Dawkins


come together. Made a force be with us and also with you -- may the.


Just to look at the press conference that was just happening a moment ago


where French prosecutors were telling us that there have been 19


raids in the Brussels region throughout the evening. 16 people


have then arrested. -- been. They tell us that the man that has been


on the run was not part of those arrests. A judge will have to decide


whether those people remain in custody or not. We will bring you


more details on who those people who were arrested after wrap the night


here on BBC News.


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