22/11/2015 The Papers


22/11/2015

No need to wait until tomorrow morning to see what's in the papers - Martine Croxall presents a lively and informed conversation about the next day's headlines.


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Four Britons who died in a helicopter crash on holiday in New

:00:00.:00:00.

Zealand have been named as Nigel and Helen Charlton, and Katharine Walker

:00:00.:00:00.

Two Australian holiday-makers and the pilot were also killed

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Hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the papers

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Thank you to our guests for joining us this evening. Time for a look at

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the front pages. for more cuts to fund an extra ?12

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billion for the Defence Department. The Times also looks at the issue

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of defence and says that fighting terrorism

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will be at the heart of the ?178 The Telegraph says the Army is to be

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restructured to create two strike brigades who can be deployed

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immediately to fight terrorists. And the Mirror also goes with

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that story, focusing on the 10,000 strike force that

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can be deployed at short notice. The i claims that

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the government may rethink its ?10 billion surplus pledge to

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fund a tax-credit climbdown. The Guardian leads with

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the news that Brussels faces an unprecedented security lockdown

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because of a serious and imminent The Daily Mail splashes

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on the refusal of leading UK cinemas to show an

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advert featuring the Lord's Prayer. Let us begin with the Times.

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Cameron's ?178 billion overhaul of UK defence military spending by four

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strikes vote. -- before air strikes vote. Two major themes in this

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story. ?178 billion over ten years. ?12 billion for equipment. The RAF

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will emerge as the winner, it says. New aircraft operating by 2023. The

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other thing that is coming out very strongly is that it is likely Jeremy

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Corbyn will be forced to offer a free vote on bombing in Syria. He is

:02:18.:02:25.

against bombing ISIS in Syria and had previously said he would not

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offer a free vote, but a number of his senior lieutenants are making

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the case. We will come back to Corbyn in a moment because he is on

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the front page of the Independent as well, but it is not as if the

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Ministry of Defence will be completely saved from any cuts...

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Like any other department. Money is tight. The Chancellor does need to

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find money from somewhere. The RAF is very pleased with the money they

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are getting. But we will not see any of that equipment anytime soon, so

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it will not help with any possible potential air strikes on Syria. The

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rapid deployment capability that we have never had in Britain is what

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much of this money will fund. That is important in terms of our defence

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capabilities. It is in line with the Prime Minister's objective to meet

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the Nato defence target. However, I do wonder where this money is coming

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from. We are trying to get the balance and surplus in our budget

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and we are still trying to deal with austerity. This money could be well

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spent on police, welfare and the NHS, all of which have had to be

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cut. Nine days ago, these attacks have changed so much. It has been a

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dramatic, seminal, watershed moment. But this thing about the

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budget... Given that they are spending on defence and security and

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a number of other things, it is entirely possible that George

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Osborne will renege on his commitment to create a ?10 billion

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surplus in the budget by 2020 and that might be one way of doing

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something that is also of great political importance for him and the

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government, Kim as a potential -- him as a potential successor to

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David Cameron, which is back away from the scandalously tough policies

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on family tax credits. 10,000 elite troops to fight ISIS. Be

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restructuring of the army to create two strike forces that can be

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deployed very quickly. This is the point. This is unprecedented. We

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have never had Army dealing with crises in this way. In terms of

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physical numbers, it is important. But also in terms of what this means

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for our army, which has been cut in recent years. How likely is it that

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we will have more troops? Or will it be a reorganisation of what we

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already have? There are two stories about 10,000 troops. Wonders about

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the deployment of troops overseas. The other is 10,000 troops within

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the country so that if you have some of these religious fanatics getting

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into the country with weapons, God forbid, they will be able to deploy

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soldiers to combat them in addition to the fact that they are training

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medics with expertise in bullet wounds and all sorts of things so

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that if this does happen, we will have a much more adequate and

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efficient response. Russia has been increasing spending while that in

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the UK is contracting. We will need those soldiers if we have fewer

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police. Someone has to police our streets. I think that it is the same

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number, 10,000, for domestic and internal deployment. ?178 billion

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will go a long way to making that more balanced. Something quite

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interesting and ironic in a number of these stories is the way that

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David Cameron is going to position the spending. It is to do with ISIS

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and Russia. Ins the battle against ISIS, we will be alive with Russia

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but in other areas, we will be against Russia. It shows the

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kaleidoscopic complexity... That is a long word but I understand it.

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Lockdown in Brussels over terror threats. Armed patrols on the

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streets of the capital. We are expecting a press conference coming

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out but right now, it is just an empty table with microphones. We are

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waiting for some of the authorities, potentially the federal

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prosecutor, to appear at that table very soon and tell us what has been

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going on. Extraordinarily eerie pictures coming out of Brussels

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tonight. People have been told to keep away from the windows and the

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Metro will not be running tomorrow. Brussels is very small but has lots

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of public space for people. Schools, universities, transport will be

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closed. President Obama said we should not succumb to this but in

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Brussels, people are not allowed to go about their normal lives because

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they are genuinely afraid. They have been told not to go out to concerts

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or bars. We are just having a look at these pictures. These are the

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live pictures. We're hoping that we will have some translation because

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they will probably be speaking Flemish or French and I don't think

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I can help you out with either. We will come back to that when we get

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some translation. We understand there may have been a number of

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arrests this evening in Brussels. We need to get clarification on how

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many there were and who was arrested. Of course, they are

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searching at the moment force an avid Slam, who is thought to have

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been one of the men who intended to blow himself up outside the national

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stadium in France nine days ago. -- sana -- Salah Abdeslam.

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We are doing this in the interests of the ongoing investigation. And

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with the French as well. We think they will speak in English as well

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but at the moment, we are listening to this in Flemish was it the answer

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languages spoken in Belgium, French as well, so we might be hearing

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things in all three, which could prolong things a bit. The Belgian

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federal prosecutor has said so far that 16 people have been arrested

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during a raid in Brussels. When we get the translation, we will find

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out exactly where, because earlier in the evening, we were watching

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pictures of a street that is close to the main square, and it looked

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like a boss was being used to block the street -- bus. There was some

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police activity. But the street was completely deserted besides two of

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the policemen and then it was all suddenly wrapped up. We understand

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that 16 people have been arrested. Two shots were fired on a vehicle in

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Molenbeek, this area of Brussels that has been under constant

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surveillance since those Paris attacks. It is thought that some of

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the attackers had connections with Molenbeek. Three houses were

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searched in another area as well, which is where one of the airports

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is. Prosecutors say they did not find Salah Abdeslam, who is the

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person they have been looking for since the attacks happened in Paris.

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We will come back once we get something in English but we will

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just take a look at the Guardian. Lockdown in Brussels. And that will

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continue tomorrow. Schools shut and Metro closed full of no one is going

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anywhere tomorrow. You can understand why they are jittery.

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This was almost certainly the logistical command centre for the

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atrocity and there has clearly been a fast security operation. It is

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difficult to say whether it was right to shut down the entire

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Western European capital because we have not seen the intelligence upon

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which the decision was made, but what strikes me is the vital

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importance of the flow of information between European

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security services. The intelligence has to be brought together because

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these fanatics do not respect national borders whatsoever. And one

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hopes that these arrests will have caught the sleeper cell that was

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clearly operating in the middle of Europe. We are just waiting to see

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if we have any translation because we have a different official who is

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speaking, this time in French. TRANSLATION: The Brussels

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prosecutor, the anti-terror prosecution, executed 19 raids this

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Saturday evening in the Brussels region. These raids took place in

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Molenbeek, Anderlecht... There were three other raids. 16 people were

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taken into custody. The judge will decide tomorrow whether or not they

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should be detained further. During a raid on a snack bar in Molenbeek, a

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vehicle was driven at the police. Police opened fire twice. The

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vehicle was able to escape but was later stopped in Brussels. An

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injured man in the car was arrested. It is impossible to say at

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the moment whether or not there is a link between these arrests and the

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investigation is under way. The other raids happened without great

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incident. The identity of the people who were arrested, we cannot give

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more information about them yet. No arms or explosives were found. Salah

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Abdeslam was not intercepted during these raids. There will have to be

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further actions on Sunday evening. The investigation will continue. We

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cannot give you more information at this time. The police and the

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authorities would like to thank the media and social media users for

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having followed our request not to publish details of the police

:14:29.:14:38.

operation. The Brussels a special investigator ordered a total of 19

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households such as in the Brussels region. These researchers took place

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in Molenbeek, Anderlecht and other locations. There were also three

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house searches... In total, 16 persons were arrested. Just

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recapping there on those details. 19 raids carried out in Brussels. 16

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arrests. Properties were searched, two shots fired, vehicle drove at

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police, and later that vehicle was stopped again. It was delivered by a

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moon -- man who was wounded. It is not clear if there is any link with

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the attacks that happened in Paris. Salah Abdeslam, the man they have

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been looking for, was not among the 16 people arrested. The judge will

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decide tomorrow whether those people need to remain in custody. If

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anything else comes out of this press conference in Brussels, we

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will bring it to you. Will move on and talk about the

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independent. This is not what you expect from your own party. Not from

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a leader who was voted in from popular mechanism. Clearly, they are

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not happy with their leader. They are taken to Facebook this weekend

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to suggest that it is time all of the bitterness stops because it is

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creating chaos and not helping the party. People should get on with it

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and the backbenches should actually deal with it that he is here to stay

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for a long time and support his measures. I think that's got to be

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hard for a lot of Labour MPs, because a lot of them don't back

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him. It is a bit hard to know how you deal with this issue when you've

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only been in the post for a few weeks. Not even 100 days, is it? No.

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I ran for the Labour Party back in the day. But there has always been

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an extraordinary divide. They are very far to the left of most members

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of Parliament, and most members of Parliament pretend they are very

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left wing to get selected and start moving to the right to get elected.

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What has happened, you are right, there is an overwhelming support of

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him from his convictions and his left-wing credentials, but I don't

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think this is just symbolic. They're not sniping for political

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machination. This is a fundamental disagreement about what the Labour

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Party is for stopping is not going to go away. Until they come up with

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a better alternative, they have to accept that this man is their

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leader. He's the person that one and that is reality is. Does he have to

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get out if there is a vote on his strikes? Competitor to years ago

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when it was more about regime change, it is now regarded as a

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threat to our national security. The indications are that he will get

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around that through a free vote. You have to take your party with you and

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you have to understand there's going to be issues. And whether a free

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vote will allow that to take lace, along with dissension and accepting

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that this is is a reality is importance of blue I feel that

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Jeremy Corbyn is right with his reluctance in Syria because he is

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worried that it will feed into this persuasive narrative. These are

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Crusaders attacking Islam. He is worried that airstrikes alone will

:18:48.:18:51.

not defeat Islamic State. Summing that is backed by a lot of people in

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the military and it will propagate more fundamental radicalisation is.

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A lot of people are saying that it just cements more problems and

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brings terror to this country if we get involved. There has to be a Post

:19:08.:19:15.

a strike plan and surely that has to involve the Arab states? We know

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that militarily these things cannot be forged. Diplomacy is going to

:19:23.:19:32.

have to be put into full swing. If you even go to militarily spot as

:19:33.:19:35.

you are still going to have to deal with the aftermath and that requires

:19:36.:19:41.

good international relations. The Arab states need to get involved

:19:42.:19:44.

because it has to be good for their region. Look at how impractical that

:19:45.:19:49.

is going to be, the West and the UK to not want Assad to be part of the

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post-war negotiations. What Jeremy Corbyn is saying is that us sort out

:19:59.:20:03.

the political response and find out what we're looking to achieve in

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that country before we start bombing and radicalising the country. It was

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inevitable that the call of a strike could grow in the light of what

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happened in Mali, and much closer to home, in Paris. Sure, that does not

:20:18.:20:24.

mean it is the right response. It is natural for people to say we need to

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do something about this, but that does not always mean military

:20:28.:20:33.

action. Diplomacy, if given time and space can work. Even if we do invade

:20:34.:20:39.

Syria, long-term the real politics of the situation need to be solved.

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The complexity of the tribal structures, the tenuous as of the

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Borders in that part of the world almost every time we have had an

:20:55.:20:58.

intention based on a particular reaction the unintended consequences

:20:59.:21:02.

have overwhelmed what we expected. We need to bear that in mind in

:21:03.:21:07.

whatever we decide to do. Let us look at the Financial Times, a $550

:21:08.:21:15.

billion deal to create the world 's largest drug maker. This is

:21:16.:21:22.

something unprecedented. Bill Gates said that if you want to move

:21:23.:21:25.

industry in the future there is health, energy and innovation. And

:21:26.:21:28.

this is the biggest health deal ever on our books. It will be the biggest

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measure to come into the United Kingdom, in the United States and

:21:37.:21:45.

Ireland. We spent a lot of time talking that how taxes are going to

:21:46.:21:52.

pay for defence, NHS and now we have big corporations run to avoid tax,

:21:53.:21:57.

we do need to think about this. How does is passed down mergers and

:21:58.:21:59.

acquisitions regulations if we allow this to happen? They are going to

:22:00.:22:06.

avoid paying 128 alien pounds of overseas tax. They will have a lower

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tax threshold all over. A disco to show the tax policy of individual

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nations, and the only way it becomes pay their taxes in an international

:22:22.:22:29.

agreement. We do require drug companies to find ways to treat us.

:22:30.:22:36.

Because governments are doing that because they are dwarfed by the

:22:37.:22:41.

private sector. But they don't get let off on tax on this scale. Just

:22:42.:22:45.

because you provide a service does not mean you get to pay taxes. Then

:22:46.:22:50.

you enter services like Facebook and Google were they don't need to pay

:22:51.:22:58.

taxes. Let us face with the Daily Mail, hypocrisy in the cinemas.

:22:59.:23:09.

They've and the churches video of the Lord's prayer yet allow violent

:23:10.:23:15.

video games to be shown to children. Discuss. This is an

:23:16.:23:22.

interesting story because digital media has banned this advert, in my

:23:23.:23:27.

mind outrageously, because they are worried that it will offend the

:23:28.:23:31.

sensibilities of those coming in to watch the screening of the next Star

:23:32.:23:36.

Wars film. What they are saying, quite legitimately with the support

:23:37.:23:40.

of other religious leaders, and in deed, Richard Dawkins the arch

:23:41.:23:47.

atheist of Western culture. I have some sympathy with that. I don't

:23:48.:23:52.

believe in religion for one moment, my personal view is that it is all a

:23:53.:23:56.

fairytale, but they should have the right to advertise if other people

:23:57.:24:00.

are allowed to advertise discuss. I agree. Freedom of speech is not a

:24:01.:24:06.

discussion this is an agreement. Is a row to Christmas, it is a possible

:24:07.:24:12.

show, and it is a great marketing ploy to talk about faith. It is

:24:13.:24:18.

unprecedented to do it in the cinema, but I would like to think

:24:19.:24:22.

who they think they are going to offend? There is no survey been

:24:23.:24:31.

done. Some good synergy between religion and the religious symbolism

:24:32.:24:41.

of the force. Is not often that religious people and Richard Dawkins

:24:42.:24:46.

come together. Made a force be with us and also with you -- may the.

:24:47.:25:03.

Just to look at the press conference that was just happening a moment ago

:25:04.:25:05.

where French prosecutors were telling us that there have been 19

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raids in the Brussels region throughout the evening. 16 people

:25:10.:25:20.

have then arrested. -- been. They tell us that the man that has been

:25:21.:25:24.

on the run was not part of those arrests. A judge will have to decide

:25:25.:25:29.

whether those people remain in custody or not. We will bring you

:25:30.:25:34.

more details on who those people who were arrested after wrap the night

:25:35.:25:36.

here on BBC News.

:25:37.:25:38.

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