29/11/2015 The Papers


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That's all the sport, now on BBC News, Gavin Esler has The Papers.


Hello and welcome to our Sunday morning edition of The Papers.


With me are Lisa Markwell, the editor of the Independent on Sunday,


and Ian Birrell, contributing editor at the Mail on Sunday.


The Mail on Sunday leads with Grant Shapps' resignation and the scandal


The Telegraph reports that David Cameron has also been dragged in


to the crisis of alleged bullying inside the Conservative Party.


Grant Shapps and his wife are pictured on front


of The Sunday Express - but it leads with story that up to 100 prisoners


serving life sentences could be let out of jail for Christmas.


The Observer reports that David Cameron is to risk a Commons


vote over Syria strikes despite a split in the Labour Party.


The Times also goes with that story and claims that if David Cameron


wins the vote, he will order RAF air strikes to target the masterminds


There's more on that story in the the Independent On Sunday - it


has a warning to Jeremy Corbyn from his deputy that he must back down.


And finally the Sunday Post has a poll which says that


the public cautiously back bombing raids against IS, but that 74%


of people fear a terrorist attack on the UK within the year.


Let's begin. The big story, presumably, of the week, is The


Observer, Cameron to risk the vote over Syria is the Labour crisis


deepens. It is a risk because he does not know what the Labour MPs


will do, nor does anybody. On an issue like this where the divisions


are not purely down party lines, it is really important for him that he


knows how many Labour MPs are likely to vote four. There is a lot of


behind-the-scenes machinations which we will probably come onto. The word


risk is key in that headline. Nothing is certain. Especially since


he has said, effectively, I will not do this unless we get a reasonable


majority, it would be a propaganda coup for Islamic State. And they


can't risk what happened in 2030 with Ed Miliband, he has to be sure


that if it goes to a vote can he gets the answer. I don't think it is


such a big risk. He will not have any risk if there is any chance of


him losing, especially after what happened in 2013, when he was


pushing for attacks on the other side regime, and then he had to turn


around and say to Obama and others, I am sorry, I can't go ahead with


it. There are arguments in favour of air strikes, one of them is that if


we do not stand by our allies, why are we with them? Is that


reasonable? I think it is the weakest argument, along with the


fact that it is somehow about Britain being a big guy in the


world. I think Cameron spoke very well last week and was very


presidential and authoritative, that I think it is wrong, I think the


argument is all flawed for attacking Syria. I think the only winners will


be Assad, the guy who has killed far more people, and Putin, both of whom


we were being told by the Prime Minister were threats to our


security and enemies of our state. The newspapers are split in terms of


the editorial, and not done straightforward party lines. The


Daily Mail is saying... Interestingly, or perhaps not


interestingly because they are separate papers, the Mail on Sunday


has come down on the separate side. The Observer says absolutely no. I


have taken a lot of advice from one of the world's 's leading expert on


the Middle East. When people like him, Patrick, and very many


political and military experts are unable to absolutely pinpoint which


way to go, I think it is very, very difficult. On balance, I think the


case has not been made. Air strikes is one thing, we have looked about


the paper, but it is afterwards. Cameron talked very well, not only


the military part of it but the political strategies. And it going


forward, but I think it is by no means certain. I have talked to a


number of people, one argument that has been made is that you can never


foresee where any of this will turn out, decapitation strategy is in


Libya and Iraq went badly, this is not the same, this is not trying to


overthrow a government. Bit in Iraq their ground forces with the Kurds,


who when you do the bombing raids, they are basically good guys, there


are not that many of them, they are pushing forward on the ground. So


the air strikes that have a purpose. In Syria, we do not know who the


good guys are, the allies are, the beneficiaries are, the forces. The


talk of 70,000 moderate forces, they are attacking Assad, not Isis, and


they are in the south anyway. Even advisers goes, it will not deal with


the underlying problems to do with sectarianism, repression, the old


colonial borders, foreign intervention. This is not just a


problem in Iraq and Syria but we conceded with Boko Haram in Nigeria,


in Yemen, in Mali, in Bangladesh. Isis are claiming to have carried


out some political murders in Bangladesh. This will not be solved


by bombing Isis. It is much, much more complicated. In some ways, the


public are being duped by thinking that an attack on Isis will solve


the problems. Obviously it is a horrible, malevolent force causing


untold misery, but getting rid of them aid going to solve the


problems. The Independent on Sunday, Watson warns Corbyn that you must


back down. His boss fights on for a majority against bombing, Watson


would like a vote. The fact that Tom Watson is saying that is a big


story? It is. We were discussing this beforehand, Tom Watson has not


said a huge amount in the last ten days or so, that he has come back


thunderously with this exclusive that he has spoken to us about,


which is very much a reaction to the fact that Jeremy Corbyn seems to be


trying to circumnavigate what any other political leader would think


would be the usual rules of how to get your Shadow Cabinet and you MPs


behind you. He has e-mailed all the party membership trying to do the


grassroots rebellion inside the party. Watson, as you would probably


expect a deputy, the sober boys, it turns out, in all of this, to say


that has to be a free vote, you will not be able to persuade the Shadow


Cabinet. It will not work. There are lots of slightly complicated things


going on which our something about Corbyn's offers sent out weapons


they might, and e-mail, we have a story inside, an e-mail to selected


Labour MPs on Wednesday night saying that Cameron has not made the case,


I am unequivocally against. That was Wednesday night, Cameron did not lay


out his case until Thursday. It was a bit prejudged. A little bit. It


feels like the heels are dug in, if he has to change and, as Watson


says, have a free vote, it will be really uncomfortable. And there are


very senior trade union leaders expressing disquiet, the Shadow


Foreign Secretary at the Shadow Defence Secretary as well. It is an


utter and complete farce what is going on in the Labour party. When


you think it can't get worse, it gets worse. It is humiliating for


them. Robert Harris has a very powerful column in the Sunday Times,


which I don't intently agree with, but it is fantastic Labour, he says


it is not about splits in the party, it is an existential crisis in the


party, what is its point, will it totally split? The MPs wrote sync


with the party. They may think they are more in sync with the


electorate, which they probably are, but the party has changed. There are


lots of new members and there is a clash. The other unavoidable fact is


that, possibly for the wrong reasons, Corbyn was right on Iraq,


host of the guys opposing him were wrong on Iraq by backing the war,


and I also think he is right on the Syrian crisis. That is another


problem. I think it is right what Ian is saying, Corbyn speaks a lot


of sense. Although it is driven a lot by anti-American is. The reasons


might be wrong, but we do not know what we are about to do, we should


think about it more carefully and not be rushed to action, that is


very important. When you talk outside of Westminster and media


bubble, you talk to people outside, the new members or some of a


long-time members the Labour Party, they completely believe in Corbyn


and think that he is a highly principled person and they support


an entirely on this. It is very interesting last night after we put


the front page up, I got so much on Twitter and other social media from


Labour members saying that Watson is being completely disloyal, he must


go because Corbyn is the leader and we support him. I just spoke to the


Labour MP Stephen Kinnock, he said the trouble with that argument is


that if you have a leader who has rebelled 500 times against previous


leaders, or call the loyalty is fairly nonsensical. He promised a


new politics and he is demonstrating it, but it is politics bordering on


farce. We hear the word mandate all the time, he has thousands and


thousands of people, he is appealing direct route to them. It is


difficult to mute that. People will feel even more disenchanted and


disenfranchised of their own leader does not speak to them. Shadow


Cabinet members say that the most frustrating thing is not that they


are at loggerheads, he just does nothing, he backs off and things


explode in the media. It must be very hard for a politician to deal


with. Moving onto the Mail on Sunday, it


has campaigned quite strongly on this issue, the Tory scandal forces


minister out, Grant Shapps, exposed after we revealed new MP blackmail


pot doomed? The PM's pal is in the firing line over our revelations.


This could have been an open goal for Labour, it is really mucky


stuff? It shows the depth of the Labour crisis that we are talking


about it third this morning, it is astonishing. The political editor of


the Mail on Sunday, Simon Walters, has uncovered this for weeks before


the rest of the media picked it up. Suddenly it has exploded. Sit back


and think about it, it is astonishing. A story about sex and


drugs and blackmail and careerist politics all going on within the


Conservative Party, reaching the very highest levels. It involves


three past party chairman, it involves the new deputy chairman, it


is very extraordinary. At root, it confirms the public's worst fears


about politics. It is like a rejected version of the Alan Busted


normal Mark Roe -- the television story. It tars them all? Shadowy


figure of the MP he was not named, they know who it is, they say coyly,


but out of respect will not name them... Respect for the lawyers!


Batters MacGuffin for me, this is about David Cameron's choices. --


that is a McGuffin. Until he could not support Grant Shapps any more,


he very much supported him. As Simon Heather says in the Telegraph, the


water had closed over Grant Shapps very quickly. He has not left any


mark at all. Nevertheless, Cameron really believed in him and supported


him. Lord Feldman, a very close friend of Cameron's. This is where


it is creeping up. The idea of sex scandals is interesting, but it goes


to the heart of the choices of who is running the country, who is


advising the Prime Minister. Leaving this aside, Feldman has been a very


good chairman for the party. Financially, you still very good job


and sorted out a lot of operations. There is a friendship issue but he


has been a very, very effective chairman behind-the-scenes.


Nevertheless if, as we are being told today, warnings as far back as


2009 were given to people at Lord Feldman's level and they did nothing


about it, even if there were lots of individual, slightly lower-level


warnings, you would expect some body running things to say, hold on a


minute. Somebody as intelligent as Lord Feldman should have every


lights that one day this would gather strength. -- should have


realised. This will run and run, there is lots more in it? It is


almost ambient good not to run. Lets not forget Elliot Johnson, the poor


young man motivated by politics, really wanted to get involved, is


now dead and his father, incredibly bravely and very strongly, is saying


that Grant Shapps going is absolutely not... Grant Shapps says


the buck stops with me, I am sorry, that is not the case, Andrei Johnson


wants this to go all the way, he wanted those who took -- and Ray


Johnson wants this to go all the way, he says he wants those who knew


about it to take responsibility. On the Sunday Telegraph, I think it is


the best political comment of the day, it often comes from


cartoonist, on the front page there are two activists in Labour Party


headquarters, one says to the other, obviously things won't run this


movie when Jeremy Corbyn's honeymoon period is over. Almost always


absolutely spot-on. We were counting up Corbyn pits days in the office,


it is day 85, normally when they take over, the first 100 days, as


newspaper editors, you get those pieces ready. We'll Jeremy Corbyn


make it to 100 days? The cartoonist nails it. The mechanism for removing


a leader of the Labour Party, especially one with a thumping


majority, he could be the leader for as long as he chooses. But people


are already saying publicly that he must go. In the days after he got


the job, literally the next day, senior people said there is no


question of him quitting. I thought that was rather indicative. The


Oldham by-election will be very interesting. The fact that Corbyn


has decided not to go, he may pop up in his grey tracksuit at the last


minute, but at the moment he is not going. It is likely heartbreaking,


you would expect that to be front and centre of what he is doing. Ukip


have had a bad time, leadership problems, it might kick-start them.


Internally, the Independent On Saturday had a poll saying that his


majority is down to as little as 1000. From 15,000.


The Sunday Telegraph has got Murrays put Britain on the brink of


cup glory, the Sunday Times says all set for the final showdown, Andy


Murray, the prospect of winning the Davis Cup for the first time since


1936. What can you say, it is very exciting and stop this brings


together two sporting stories from both ends of the spectrum, the fine


gentleman sport of tennis and the rather more... How shall we say


unglamorous sport of boxing, although there is more money in


boxing. We have not had a British winner of the title since 1936 or


1934, Ian has all the details. We would have had more recent, but it


is amazing, a huge shock in boxing, Robert Lee the biggest shock of the


25 years. Little was known about this guy, he came along and he has


beaten the world champion, who has been raining for a long time. It is


an underdog triumph, the classic rock singer story. It made the front


page of the Telegraph sport, fists of Few read, he defeats Klitschko to


become heavyweight champion of the world. I don't think most British


people outside of the boxing world will know of him. -- fists of Fury.


Boxing is not the force, no plan intended, that it used to be, they


all papal view -- pay-per-view, you can watch them in the pub, they are


on at crazy hours of the day and night will stop de Gea used ago to


the pub to watch boxing? -- didn't you used ago? Not on Saturday, I am


busy! One of the stories is not on the papers at all, the junior


doctors strike on Tuesday. At the moment it looks like it is going


ahead. And also the Paris climate conference, there will be a big


march in London. And all over the place. Those are two big stories


which made none of the front pages. The Telegraph has the junior doctors


on it, for the public, that is probably the biggest story. Battle


most affect people. It is difficult to see what could avert that. I


think Jeremy Hunt, something said yesterday that they think it is too


later but they will still attempt another talk with him tomorrow.


Everybody is so caught up in Syria and Labour 's shenanigans that it


has dropped away. It will be a heck of a week in politics, the


prospective chaos in the NHS, the prospect of bombing or not bombing


Syria, Oldham and what is going on in the Labour Party. Is that why you


are journalist? I can keep my feet up until next Saturday! It is a


Sunday paper. Thank you very much. Our thanks to Lisa and Ian. We take


a look at tomorrow's front pages every evening at 10:30pm and 11:30pm


on BBC News.


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