13/12/2015 The Papers


13/12/2015

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


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Transcript


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Our level has been really, really high. Good luck for them.

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Hello and welcome to our Sunday morning edition of The Papers.

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With me are the Independent columnist Yasmin Alibhai-Brown

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and the political commentator Vincent Moss.

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The Observer welcomes the historic climate change deal in Paris,

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quoting the words of the French president Francois Hollande

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who described it as a major leap for mankind.

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The Independent shows a line of dancing polar bears

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The paper also claims David Cameron is to make a dramatic climbdown

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That story also makes the front page of the Telegraph,

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pointing out the U-turn will be on the Prime Minister's central

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The Mail carries an exclusive interview with Shaker Aamer,

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the British man held at Guantanamo Bay for fourteen years.

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The Express goes it alone saying more than 400 miles of roadworks

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will be cleared, just in time for the great Christmas getaway.

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The Sunday Times claims that the man who shouted "You ain't no Muslim,

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bruv" during an attack at an East London tube station now

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fears retribution from the group calling itself Islamic State.

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So, let's begin. There is no doubt that a major leap for mankind, world

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leaders hail the Paris deal on the climate, it is a big story. Warts

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and all, nobody thinks it is perfect, but it is a deal? As you

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would expect the Observer, it is covering it in great detail and

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trying to suggest that it could be the end of the fossil fuel era and

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there will be pressure on businesses and firms, taxing people who use

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fossil fuels, fossil fuel companies. The big question is weather this

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will happen. There is scepticism, some of which is reflected in the

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observer. I really, really hope that 50% of what is promised happens.

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Remember, the green agenda has fallen off the Chancellor's wish

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list. He has kind of completely cut away from what was being taken

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seriously before, because the economy was everything, whatever it

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took to push the economy up to the highest speed. The other thing is

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that I was in India last weekend, they are very angry with one aspect

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of what has happened, which is that the richer countries have created

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the mess and most of the worst disasters happening in the poorest

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countries, although we are facing them, and they are not getting any

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concession on that, according to the deal. There are lots of very

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interesting bits. It may signal the end of the fossil fuel era, when I

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am talking to climate change scientists they say that this is the

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end of coal, it might not be in the next ten or 20 years but it is

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particularly coal, it has huge knock-on effect for Indonesia, where

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they do lots of coal mining, markets like that, and some people say it

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would help if governments did not subsidise fossil fuels. Not only

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should the prices go up because of taxation, as has been suggested, but

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subsidies still exist. If anything, you would think governments would be

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looking towards renewables, but our government seems to be moving away

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from that. When you are looking at people like Oracle barman David

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Cameron welcoming this agreement, the British Government, at a time

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where there have been floods in the north of England which many people

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believe man-made, caused by climate change, there is a rolling back from

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the things we should be embracing. Some people are sceptical about the

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governments patting themselves on the back, how long, you are moving

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away from the things that would mitigate the impact of climate

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change. Can I throw in a sceptical note, do you think leaders care that

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much? Some people kept very deeply about green issues, any people are

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more interested in putting food on the table, getting a job, can my

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kids go to a good school? But I think everybody is becoming aware of

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the changing climate. These floods in the last five years in this

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country, nobody can say it is just a course of nature that happens from

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time to time. People are becoming more aware, there is something going

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on. The climate denying lobby is very strong in this country, in

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America, particularly. I don't think this will go without a fight. I

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think more and more merry people are beginning to think... When you get a

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once in 100 year flood, then another within a couple of years. At is

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making people wake up, people are looking at what is happening

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literally in their back gardens, this has not happened before,

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something is going on. When it was Bangladesh it didn't matter, now it

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is Carlisle. Charming polar bears in the Independent on Sunday, but

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Cameron's Big E you climb-down is what it says, it has dropped the red

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line demand to strip EU workers of tax credits so long as there is

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something better to cut migration. Downing Street say they are battling

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away. Everybody knew this was bluff and bombast on the part of the Prime

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Minister, because he needs to be seen to be saying something to those

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wanting to exit the EU and so on. To change some of the conditions which

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he seemed to think was easy, everyone knew it would not be

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possible. But I find it very difficult, I hated the way the media

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uses this climb-down and U-turn. Intelligent politics should allow

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politicians to change their minds. And not be cast as cowards all week.

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This makes for very bad policy, I think, when everybody is scared of

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what the headline will be next. Climb-down, if he is changing his

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mind a bit or knows it will not be possible, let's do it intelligently,

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don't make it into this stupid headline. I say this about my own

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paper! David Cameron always knew this would not be achievable, but

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this is the centrepiece of his demand, this four year ban on in

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work benefits would never happen, he knew that, he conceded earlier in

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the week in talks with the Polish leaders that it would never happen.

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Sources very close to the Prime Minister have spoken to almost all

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the Sunday newspapers and said it would not happen. It is still on the

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table but it will not happen, yet this was the absolute centrepiece of

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his reforms, the package of things he would get before the referendum,

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it will clearly not happen. Rather conveniently on a busy Newsweek when

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you have climate change talks in the resolution, number ten has snuck out

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this briefing to say it will not happen. What about all these British

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people living in Europe, if there was a tit-for-tat, we have huge

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numbers of people working, living and retired in Europe. This was an

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ill thought through policy, really. Moving on to the Sunday Telegraph,

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hammering's climb-down on EU benefits, the same sort of headline,

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but underneath 100,000 new members to oust Corbyn. Jeremy Corbyn's

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critics plan to float a Labour with 100,000 new moderate members at a

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privately admitting they will have to wait until 2017 to oust him as

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leader. How do you flood the Labour Party with 100,000 members. People

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either join or they do not. If you do, you are doing something quite

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dishonest in terms of democratic principles. You can attract new

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members. How will they test? If I want to become a member, will they

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say, do you like Jeremy Corbyn or not, will there be a lie detection

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test? Stupid, isn't it? I think it is a struggle. The sort of members

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that people who do not like Jeremy Corbyn in the Labour Party are

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talking about are moderates, as they would describe themselves, they only

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seem to be heading for the Exeter under Jeremy Corbyn. The only person

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attracting new people to the party is Jeremy Robert. The nub of the

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story is saying about people who do not like him in the Parliamentary

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Labour Party have given up on the idea that they will be able to get

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rid of Corbyn after the May elections next year, it is too early

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because his mandate is too big. They will try to add 100,000 new members,

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good luck with that, that is an awful lot. How will they determine

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what a moderate is? I think the Independent on Sunday, Jeremy Corbyn

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is getting more popular, it says, with the Labour Party voters than

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less so. It is a mighty mess. There are all sorts of parts to this mess.

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The Oldham West by-election, many people within Labour said, we might

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not do very well, we might lose. They were wishing that. Some perhaps

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worth. They didn't, the boat share went up. That was the first

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electoral test of Jeremy Corbyn, which he passed. The next one will

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be the May elections, then the London mayoral elections. If Labour

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does badly there will be fresh calls to have a change at the top. What

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the Telegraph is probably accurately reflecting is given the size of his

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mandate, May 2016 is probably too early to move within the grassroots

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elements of the Labour Party, and it will take longer than that. The

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Telegraph have spoken to moderates and said the only way we can do

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this, Jeremy Corbyn wants to change the party in his own image and make

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it more left-wing, we will fight that by getting more moderates in.

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100,000 new members, theoretically, is a good strategy, but it is an

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awful lot of people to attract. Do you ever wonder, if any of the other

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people were elected leader, they would still be in real trouble?

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Having gone through a fairly catastrophic election defeat, with

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the economy picking up, we have heard news this week saying that

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despite the problems of austerity, anybody leading the Labour Party

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would be in trouble at the moment? It has gone so to the right over the

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past two years that sometimes an ordinary voter, which is what I am

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on election day, would I vote for Tory-lite or Tory Tory? That was the

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choice. I think it is really good. I am not a groupie of Jeremy Corbyn

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but I think it is really good that the poor, the people most suffering

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under austerity have somebody speaking for them. We have to have a

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spectrum of opinion, we didn't have any. To use and think that when

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papers make it quite clear they generally don't like Jeremy Corbyn,

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that helps him? Lots of people go, oh, those newspapers, what have they

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got it in for him, he must be doing something right, because we don't

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like newspapers very much? Definitely. Even if you like the

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left of centre papers, some of their columnists do not support the Labour

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leader. In social media many people say, the papers would say that, of

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course they hate him, it confirms their support and reaffirms

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prejudices against certain parts of the media and increases support for

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Jeremy Corbyn. They will continue to do pretty well among the young and

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largely disenfranchised generation. We will see how things progress. If

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he does fairly well in May, he might be that 2017 and potentially even

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the next general election in 2020. I think this is a cracking story in

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the Mail on Sunday, Shaker Aamer says jihadis must get the hell out

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of Britain. I need with the last British resident Guantanamo Bay. He

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talks about his ordeal but he has a message. It is an incredible coup

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for the Mail on Sunday, and David Rose, who has been an investigative

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journalist for a very long time. He developed this relationship with

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Shaker Aamer over many years, he knows him well and you see the man,

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not the semi-destroyed prisoner who arrived back after 14 years. I am

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just so pleased he has said this, jihadis must get the hell... If this

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man, who has suffered so much, can see that we Muslims, I speak as a

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Muslim briefly for now, have a problem with these insane haters of

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the West who are amongst the luckiest Muslims in the world,

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because at least we live in a secure country, we have some kind of

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democracy. Name one Muslim nation where any of us could have the basic

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rights we have here? OK, sometimes the state is unfair to us, there is

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racism and all of that but, honestly, it is time we spoke up. It

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is time we spoke up just to say we are lucky to be here. And if he can

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do it, it really helps. I can tell you how much I admire this man for

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retaining his humanity after all this. It would be difficult not to

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be very bitter to buy what he says he went through. That is right, but

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he is talking about the joy of being reunited with his family. It is

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astonishing, the Mail and David Rose had spent five days interview Heming

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that a great interview him, nine pages. There is a lot of talk about

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how he was trusted in Guantanamo Bay and denied the right to make a

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dramatic bid you appeal to try to stop Jihadi John beheading a British

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aid worker, Alan Henning. All sorts of Revelations. Normally I would be

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against any paper having nine pages of a weekly paper with one story,

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but there is so much, his torture, capture, the way he was treated and

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a real insight into what goes on in the camp. It is not on the front

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pages now, but the Donald Trump story, ban all Muslims from coming

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to the United States, all Muslims are the same as the predicate of

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that. Absolutely. And America has terribly important questions to

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answer. It is a poser bastion of democracy, Guantanamo is still open

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despite of what Obama promised. -- it is a supposed Bastian.

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Politicians like oral Trump get this high. There is an thing quite insane

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about that nation. I don't hate America but I sometimes worry about

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its sanity. The Sunday Times has another aspect of this team we are

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talking about which is the witness to what happened at a June station

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in London a week ago, the man who said you ain't no Muslim, bruv, he

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says he himself is not Muslim, he says, I know Muslims, I have Muslim

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friends, I was just upset with what I saw some I had to let him know how

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I felt. It is quite an interesting story, they did a good job tracking

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him down. But he is worried now about some of the crazies we have

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here coming for him and he is right to be a little bit worried, because

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everything was photographed and filmed. Well done, him, really, for

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saying what he said and in the way he said it, really. What did you

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think when you first heard it? I first saw it on Twitter. I thought,

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great, good for you. The simplicity of what he said, and I've lived the

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bruv, that is why it went viral. He could have made a serious, sober

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speech, and it would not have. It was capturing that youthful outrage,

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I think it was brilliant. What did you think? Weldon to the Sunday

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Times and Josh Boswell, the byline, for tracking down this chap who

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seems to be a security guard from North London. As Yasmin said it is

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worrying that he is worried about having his surname revealed, he is

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only named as 39 you wrote John, he is worried about the way his words

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went viral ads were such a robust to Isis that he is worried he is a

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target. He says that he knows Muslims, they are overwhelmingly

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good people, but he is worried for his own security cost of the nature

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of how things are these days. Let's end with the Sunday express, protest

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at Trump's pledge on migrants and roadworks banished, victory for the

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traffic Crusaders as the Minister clears 400 miles of road for

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Christmas. Don't hold your breath about not getting caught in a road

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problem this Christmas, I would not bet on it. The Transport Secretary,

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Patrick McLoughin, is saying he is doing his best to make sure there is

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no disruption. Let's see what happens over Christmas, there are

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usually problems with the railways in various forms of transport. It is

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a great British institution to have Christmas chaos. Every road in

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London seems to be being dug up. The road around the corner from me is

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dug up three times a year, I don't know why! It is a relief not to read

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about Diana or the weather... Oh, hang on, we have it. Just to end on

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Donald Trump, he remains the Republican frontrunner. America has

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not begun to focus yet? It takes quite a long time before we come to

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thinking who they will vote for rather than who they like listening

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to on television? What Trump reflects, most Brits, when they go

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to America they can go to New York or California and meet quite

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sensible and intelligent people, without being hugely regionalist.

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But it is these flyover states, the South and other places where Donald

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Trump is attractive. We might think that is bad, but he is very popular

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in a big chunk of America. We must not be too Sanogo. The Tea Party has

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fizzled away, but he is speaking to the American tea party lost, they

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hate the government, they hate outsiders, more and more weaponry.

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Maybe this is how democracy is let off steam, he says what people

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think, but people like dig Cheney say that he does not think like

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that. People within the Republican establishment... Dig Cheney said

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that?! Yes, he said it was un-American to suggest adding

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Muslims. This might be the first time you have agreed with dig

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Cheney! I can't speak! We will leave it there.

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Thanks to Yasmin Alibhai-Brown and Vincent Moss.

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Just a reminder we take a look at tomorrow's front pages every

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evening at 10:30pm and 11:30pm here on BBC News.

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Really cold across Scotland and northern England

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