20/12/2015 The Papers


20/12/2015

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


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That is all the sport for now. Next on BBC News, The Papers.

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Hello and welcome to our Sunday morning edition of The Papers.

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With me are Lisa Markwell the editor of the Independent of Sunday

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and David Wooding, Political Editor at the Sun on Sunday

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First, let's have a look at the front pages.

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The Observer reports that leading Conservative Eurosceptics have

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branded David Cameron's attempts to reform the Uk's relationship

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with the EU as a farce, and warned that the new National Living Wage

:00:37.:00:39.

will undermine efforts to cut immigration.

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The Mail on Sunday leads with the resignation of the chairman

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of the influential campaign group Conservative Way Forward -

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a victim, it says, of the bullying row sparked by the apparent suicide

:00:48.:00:51.

The Sunday Express carries the news of the death of Jimmy Hill

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on its front page, while also detailing the number

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of household guests the Queen is expecting for Christmas.

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The Independent on Sunday says as many as 50,000 children in the UK

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are being home-schooled and warns that many may be at risk

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Women will be allowed to take part in front line combat within months,

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according to what the Sunday Telegraph says are radical plans

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Let's begin with the Sunday Times. Very big story. Let police shoot to

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kill, says David Cameron. Officers to be protected from prosecution.

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What do you do for a police officer who is expected to protect our skin

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makes a split-second decision and gets it wrong? An extra ?34 million

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The Home Office has given for armed officers. Because everybody wants to

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see policing stepped up. Everybody wants to feel safe. That is really

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going with, you know, nobody is going to push back against that. I

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should think the Commissioner is absolutely delighted, because it is

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running in tandem with this very difficult situation about the

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shooting of Jermaine Baker. In Tottenham. It caused ill feeling.

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Yes, as Cameron is trying to tread a line which makes the country feel

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safer, sort of pacifies the police in dealing with... Having all these

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extra demands on them, and at the same time going through this long,

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drawn-out investigation. The one part of this everyone can get behind

:02:30.:02:34.

is one of his key points about this review he has asked for, that there

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will be no more investigations in the police actions that have passed

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for months and months and years, because it is frustrating for

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everybody. If it speeds up, if we have got something wrong or right,

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have a final meeting, and move forward, that can only be a good

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thing. That is true. That is part of the reason for the problem. There

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was a meeting early in the week in which senior police officers said to

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David Cameron and senior ministers that they could not get people who

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wanted to be firearms officers, because it was no longer attracted,

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because they feared that all would happen is that they would be blamed

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for making the split-second decisions. Or they would be in front

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of months and months of enquiries if they actually pulled the trigger at

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any stage. In the present climate of terrorist alerts this is difficult

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for them. There was also a political element to this in the David Cameron

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will be slightly outflanking Jeremy Corbyn, who ran into some difficulty

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in a few weeks ago when he said he was not happy with a shoot to kill

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policy in the wake of the Paris shootings, which saw 130 people

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dead. I think a lot of the general public frowned upon this. David

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Cameron is basically saying, I want to throw my weight behind the police

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to protect the public. And I am the person who puts national security

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first. You are right. The Jermaine Baker case shows the difficulty of

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it. Nobody wants the wrong person shot. Certainly nobody was anybody

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to be targeted because of maybe race. Nobody wants that. Nobody

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wants a police officer faced with a suicide bomber, or somebody with a

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Kalashnikov, not to get it right. That is right. In the week before

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Christmas people are out and about, as they are, in the centre of

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London, if you go into an underground station it makes you

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feel safer to see a police officer. It turned out not to be terrorism,

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the chap in the underground station that was there a couple of weeks

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ago. You want to feel a presence. The key to all of this is proper

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training. And how much of that ?34 million will go towards people being

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able to make the right decision in a split-second. It is how to do it

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properly. That is always the case with the police. Are they being

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trained correctly. Some of the judges have expressed alarm. Brian

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Levenson, we remember from the press enquiries...

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CHUCKLES You remember him? Seems like a long

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time ago. Even he said there is a feeling that perhaps people are

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having the benefit of hindsight a lot when these police officers,

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working under extreme stress in crowded areas, try to protect the

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public have to make these decisions. It is very difficult. Court room, TV

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studio, thinking about it. Let's move on. Labour could split into two

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macro parties to survive says a key adviser, Peter Hyman. He says

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fundamentally there is a split between those that you could call

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socialist and those you could call social Democrats. But he does not

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label them thus. We will be watching the Labour Party for the last 99

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days. Tomorrow is the 100th day since Jeremy Corbyn became leader.

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Peter Hyman, Tony Blair's former speech writer and former chief

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strategist is saying there is a very small element of the parliamentary

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Labour Party which is to the left and a sizeable chunk of the

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membership who are now to the left. And the only way the Labour Party is

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going to get power is obvious, in many ways, go for the centre ground.

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In fact, I would say, if you look back at five of the last six Labour

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leaders, if you discount John Smith who tragically died before he stood

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for election, all lost general elections. Only Tony Blair won. Why?

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Because he was occupying the centre ground. Ed Miliband couldn't do it.

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James Callaghan, Gordon Brown, Michael foot, they certainly

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couldn't do it. And there is a feeling Jeremy Corbyn cannot do it.

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Do they split or we gain the party? -- Michael Foot. Peter Hyman would

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say this. There is nothing terribly surprising in this headline, or

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indeed in what he says. But there is a poll in the Observer saying 50% of

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Labour supporters believe Jeremy Corbyn is a principled person. It is

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not just Labour supporters, it is all of the voters. 50% of them

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believe he is a principled person. You know, we come back to the same

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thing, it is the difference between the MPs and the sort of party, you

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know, who have been loyal to Tony Blair, and the electorate. The ?3

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members. All of that. How they feel about Jeremy Corbyn. They won't be

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popping champagne, but, whatever the socialist equivalent of champagne

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is. Because Jeremy Corbyn is in it for the long run. He was interviewed

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on the Sunday Times and he said he is going to be there for the long

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run. The other story we haven't touched on, the splits in the

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Conservative Party over Europe. Liam Fox, former member, is saying this

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basically is not going anywhere. This is bubbling away very heavily

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under the surface. We are probably writing -- we probably would be

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writing a lot more about it if Jeremy Corbyn wasn't the great gift

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that keeps giving to the media. In the Independent on Sunday, David

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Blunkett is saying there will be a takeover. Within the Labour Party.

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It is in century. Everybody is weighing in. -- it is incendiary.

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They say it is a Labour grassroots movement which happens to be very

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supportive... We are having a story that Momentum will join the Labour

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Party and influence it within. It would be a change to the actual

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structure. This goes back to Jeremy Corbyn's idea that he will return

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the power of policy-making to conference, which always used to

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happen in the days before John Smith. To go back to your original

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point, isn't this the thing that bores voters rigid? Resolution, that

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and this, most people are thinking about, can I put food on the table,

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will my children be able to go to university, which school are they

:09:17.:09:19.

going to get into? That is one of the problems Jeremy Corbyn is having

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to cut through. We are all hearing about the mandate of the Labour

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membership. A lot of campaigners are protesting about it. Yes, the won,

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but many voters are saying that he does not talk about the things we

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are interested in, he is a London centric politician and he does not

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appeal to us on our issues. -- P -- he won. The Department for Education

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has no reliable figures and the worry is that some students will be

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radicalised. What did you think was interesting about this? I have any

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political editor. He is diligently working away on things which are not

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the obvious. Watching him closely. CHUCKLES

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All of the Tory bullion, Labour splits, you know, what else is going

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on? At the end of term, if you like, quite a lot of interesting stuff is

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around. -- bullying. This is the Department for Education at

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admitting that they don't have any figures about how many children ask

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scored outside traditional classrooms. They say it is anything

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from 20 to 50,000. That is a huge number. The Department for

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Education... Our journalism is not suggesting that all of those are

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being radicalised somewhere in the country, nevertheless,

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home-schooling is not vigorously monitored. It all. In fact, Ed balls

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suggested a review saying there should be more close inspection of

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it. -- Ed Balls. But always knocked it down before the election. Now we

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are saying, what is going on, we must have a review. Some home

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educated children it works brilliantly for all sorts of reasons

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they are not in mainstream schools, which I understand. That is

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terrific. But they should be inspected and it should be

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registered properly. But there is a percentage of parents who are

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teaching their children and ideology which isn't being balanced out by

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anything else they would get in a classroom. It is the worry. -- an

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ideology. We want to stop it before it starts, that is something many to

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look at, so that is the story. It is a microcosm of bigger picture of all

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of these schools where there is a fear of radicalisation. We have

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overlooked the fact that some are being taught by their own parents.

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Again, are these the families you hear about anecdotally where the

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husband keeps the white indoors, she is not allowed to go out, she is not

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allowed to mix, doesn't even know how to speak English. If that is the

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sort of thing that is going on, we need to break into that. -- the wife

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in borstals typically make a choice when your child is young never to

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enter them into the school system, that is why there is no figures. --

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EQ make a choice when your child is young. These children are not on our

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radar. We have to understand the figures and do something about it.

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Firstly, people are worried about radicalisation, but on the other

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hand parents have the right to do what they think is the best for

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their children. We don't like the idea of government coming into our

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homes, telling us to do anything. That is Jokic isn't it? Yes. One of

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my colleagues educated his children through primary school years. --

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that is tricky, isn't it cost up some children find school very

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stressful setting. -- isn't it? It is the understanding and

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supporting of parents who want to do it. And at the same time sort of

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keeping an eye on it. That is what is key to this. My colleague was

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expected once in four years. Really? A home inspection from Ofsted. Yes,

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you would have to tidy up the kitchen!

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CHUCKLES If the numbers were this high it

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would be great to have a support network to make it work properly.

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That might be a way of stamping out the problems, as well as supporting

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those who want to do it. I think we will hear more about this. The Mail

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on Sunday has made quite a lot of this story, bullying scandal,

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another top Tory resigns. This is all over the Tatler Tory. This might

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have had more focus at the paper is not spent so much time and Jeremy

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Corbyn. I must admit, some of us privately scoffed at this story when

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it started. It involved the sad death of a young man. Having been

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bullied by somebody of whom we'd never heard before. The characters

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involved are not big names. Credit to them, they have kept banging away

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at this story. They have had to resignations. One minister who was

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apparently blackmailed, who resigned over an affair. Grant Schatz

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standing down as a minister because he allegedly received e-mails from

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this man, Mark Clark, the man at the centre of the bullying allegations.

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Now we have another unnamed, unknown man. Named but not known. Exactly.

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He was in this group set up by Margaret Thatcher. Big admirer of

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Margaret Thatcher. He spent ?200,000 on items from her wardrobe. Her

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clothes sale the other day. Yeah, and he is now involved in various

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different ways. What is interesting about him is that he is allegedly

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best friends with Greg hands, who is George Osborne's fixer. Then you

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have Feldman as a close personal friend of David Cameron. That is

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when it gets more interesting. You start to see the links. You see the

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6 degrees of separation which becomes four degrees and then two

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degrees. It is the scalp everybody wants, this person is central to

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what is going on in the Tory party. Not many who nobody knows about. As

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it turns out moving towards America anyway. -- not Blaney. The

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Conservative Party celebrates this by lying handbags, yet the Labour

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Party dislikes their former leaders. Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair won

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three elections. Margaret Thatcher is put upon a pedestal by her party.

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She did some bad things. She destroyed mining communities, some

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would say, but she did some good things. Tony Blair did some good

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things. Sure start centres can education reforms, quite a lot of

:16:53.:16:55.

good stuff. The minimum wage. But also, the only thing the Labour

:16:56.:16:59.

people think of him for is Iraq and they revile him. It is one of the

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biggest mistakes Ed Miliband made when he attacked his own party's

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record when he should have been talking about the good things. In my

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personal view. That the Telegraph has drivers face tougher fines to

:17:15.:17:21.

stop mobile phone use. Do you see people on their mobile phones when

:17:22.:17:25.

driving? I saw somebody the other day with a mobile phone and a

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cigarette while driving. A juggling act. Yet deeply illegal and

:17:30.:17:34.

dangerous. Highly dangerous. I am astonished. The amount has gone from

:17:35.:17:41.

?100 up to ?150. It is kicking us. It should be ?1000. It is putting so

:17:42.:17:49.

many lives at risk. -- it is ridiculous. It is irresponsible. You

:17:50.:17:53.

see it all the time. By putting up the amount by such a small amount is

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stupid. You will get an extra point. For lorry drivers it is potentially

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going to double the amount of points they get, from three to six. And

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they are probably the highest offenders. If you get to that level,

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if it jeopardises your income because you are not allowed to

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drive, then maybe you are talking about something. I don't think this

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penalises enough. There have been many prosecutions for people using

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their mobile phones. While at the wheel. Lorry drivers, apart from

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anything else come on a practical note in the newsroom last night, it

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is quite difficult to see lorry drivers using them. It has got to

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become unacceptable like drink-driving, not wearing a seat

:18:39.:18:44.

belt. Things have changed. Probably in the reckless state it is --

:18:45.:18:51.

probably in the reckless stakes it is close to drink-driving. If you

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see somebody driving badly, invariably you will see them using

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their phone. People texting behind the wheel. I was driving the other

:19:00.:19:02.

day through London, there was a car in front of me, it was moving around

:19:03.:19:07.

badly, and then it mounted the pavement and then came back on the

:19:08.:19:10.

road again. When I overtook it to get past it I noticed the driver was

:19:11.:19:16.

still on the phone texting. Staggering. There is a good radio

:19:17.:19:20.

campaign at the moment talking about it takes one second, it was one

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text, it was one reply, it was one glance. Radio is effective because

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it makes you stop and think. We all think we are special and different.

:19:31.:19:33.

I'm just going to glance very quickly to make sure somebody has

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picked up my daughter from school, what ever it might be, that is all

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it takes. It must be hammered home. We have a couple of minutes left.

:19:44.:19:46.

Jimmy Hill, the passing of Jimmy Hill. I don't know about either of

:19:47.:19:52.

you but he was a great figure for me to watch over the years. He crossed

:19:53.:19:57.

generations and all aspects of the sport. He was a player, he was a

:19:58.:20:01.

manager, he was a linesman at one game. He turned up when a linesman

:20:02.:20:09.

took ill in Liverpool Arsenal match. You remember that one! He broke the

:20:10.:20:16.

maximum wage. He was paid ?20 himself, led the first ?100 per week

:20:17.:20:20.

player which was Jonny Hayes at Fulham. Boss of Coventry City. He

:20:21.:20:26.

brought in the first all-seater stadium and the first electric

:20:27.:20:30.

scoreboard. What else? Match of the Day man. Were you a fan? Yeah! The

:20:31.:20:46.

headline in the sun newspaper, rest chin peace. One of the most famous

:20:47.:20:56.

beards in television. When the news broke of winter our online operation

:20:57.:21:01.

and said, just so you know, Jimmy Hill has died, we are getting an

:21:02.:21:06.

appreciation together. The website is operated by much younger people

:21:07.:21:09.

and they all knew exactly who it was. They were all interested. It

:21:10.:21:14.

goes across all generations. He wasn't without his, shall we say,

:21:15.:21:22.

unreconstructed views from time to time, but...

:21:23.:21:24.

CHUCKLES He was of his generation. Yes. But

:21:25.:21:30.

what he did for the players, that was a benchmark moment. What ever

:21:31.:21:34.

you think about how much they get paid now, the fact that football

:21:35.:21:38.

players at the time by not valued, it was important the did something.

:21:39.:21:39.

Thank you very much. Just a reminder we take a look

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at tomorrow's front pages every evening at 1030 and 1130

:21:42.:21:45.

here on BBC News. We have had near record-breaking

:21:46.:22:04.

temperatures across the UK over

:22:05.:22:06.

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