24/01/2016 The Papers


24/01/2016

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 24/01/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to our Sunday morning edition of The Papers.

:00:14.:00:16.

With me are Lisa Markwell, Editor of the Independent on Sunday

:00:17.:00:18.

and Ian Birrell, Associate Editor of the Mail on Sunday.

:00:19.:00:23.

The Observer says David Cameron is considering plans to allow

:00:24.:00:28.

thousands of unaccompanied migrant children into Britain.

:00:29.:00:32.

The Sunday Express leads on the story that the RAF has foiled

:00:33.:00:35.

a plan by so-called Islamic State to attack London, Brighton,

:00:36.:00:38.

The gloves are off says the Sunday Telegraph as Conservative

:00:39.:00:44.

infighting deepens over whether to stay in the European Union.

:00:45.:00:49.

The Independent on Sunday's cover photo shows rows of cars under snow

:00:50.:00:53.

And in the Sunday Times, the story that a former British spy

:00:54.:01:01.

is to expose what he says was MI5 knowledge of torture at Guantanamo

:01:02.:01:04.

Good morning to you both. Let's start with the Independent. That is

:01:05.:01:18.

your newspaper. Why don't we look at the Snow Festival. Ian, help us with

:01:19.:01:23.

that. A great picture on the front page, cars buried. First of all,

:01:24.:01:29.

it's caused deaths of people as well but a massive storm. This is the big

:01:30.:01:33.

overnight story. A one metre has fallen in one area of West Virginia.

:01:34.:01:39.

Phenomenal. Ten states are in emergency. The number of dead is up

:01:40.:01:43.

to 18. In New York, five of the six deaths have been caused by people

:01:44.:01:49.

falling over in the snow but it's a big deal for America and it's

:01:50.:01:52.

interesting how well-prepared they seem to be in many ways, certainly

:01:53.:01:56.

from the outside. I'm sure there will be the usual weather fuss about

:01:57.:02:01.

poor preparations but they close down the tube, police on the streets

:02:02.:02:06.

and suchlike. It's hard for papers in a way to do justice to this

:02:07.:02:11.

because it's a very visual thing for television but this picture is great

:02:12.:02:14.

showing the depth of the snow. What struck me is it was a short time

:02:15.:02:19.

ago, couple of weeks ago, they were having the mildest weather with

:02:20.:02:23.

people in short sleeves wondering about Central Park. And Donald Trump

:02:24.:02:26.

saying he does not believe in global warming because it's cold outside.

:02:27.:02:32.

There's politics in this as well, of course. Always politics. Extreme

:02:33.:02:36.

weather is something I think we all have to get used to, between highs

:02:37.:02:44.

and lows, it happens very suddenly. But the preparation is really

:02:45.:02:46.

interesting. When we first started to see pictures, you get the usual

:02:47.:02:52.

thing of people in Central Park on skis and it's snowing, that's

:02:53.:02:56.

charming, but, as the evening progressed and it became clear it

:02:57.:03:04.

was unprecedented, and people were dying, you change how you want to

:03:05.:03:06.

represented visually. Also comes after the hottest year in which you

:03:07.:03:11.

are right about the extreme weather and the fluctuating conditions. I'm

:03:12.:03:15.

sure Donald Trump will be angry about it in some way. OK, right,

:03:16.:03:20.

staying with your paper, Lisa, your main story, schools told to drop

:03:21.:03:27.

university snobbery. What's this about? Nicky Morgan, the Education

:03:28.:03:32.

Secretary, has noticed all been briefed, which is very true, but

:03:33.:03:37.

high-flying state schools, not private schools, are funnelling the

:03:38.:03:43.

more able pupils very much towards university. That's nothing new, it's

:03:44.:03:48.

always happened, but they believe it's to the detriment of inner work

:03:49.:03:52.

and apprenticeships which, if you like, are becoming training for all

:03:53.:04:00.

pupils because universities and students have debt, it's not

:04:01.:04:05.

necessarily... There's no guarantee or likelihood you're going to get a

:04:06.:04:09.

job at the end of university. What's happened is, because there's been so

:04:10.:04:13.

much emphasis on University, pupils are not even getting the information

:04:14.:04:17.

in careers advice about the fact that they could be having an

:04:18.:04:20.

alternative route into employment and so what they want to do through

:04:21.:04:24.

legislation which is quite unusual, law will be brought in very quickly,

:04:25.:04:28.

that schools including academies will be compelled to bring in people

:04:29.:04:34.

from further education colleges and companies to articulate to the

:04:35.:04:38.

students, you could be coming to us, earning money more quickly and

:04:39.:04:43.

progressing in your career. While it's an interesting issue, it does

:04:44.:04:45.

seem pretty crass politics because the Tories are trying to show that

:04:46.:04:50.

the party of everyone and, at the same time, trying to spread the

:04:51.:04:54.

message they are backing apprenticeship, the Levy pushed by

:04:55.:04:57.

George Osborne, which is an interesting thing with tax on

:04:58.:05:01.

business. You don't need a law with this. This is the government trying

:05:02.:05:07.

to use legislation to underline a political point and dry home a

:05:08.:05:11.

political message. It seems silly to clog up Westminster's time with

:05:12.:05:15.

another needless use of legislation. I presume it will be waved through

:05:16.:05:19.

very quickly. It's not a contentious because no one is going to oppose

:05:20.:05:25.

it. Let's go on to the Observer. Wider Java go at this? This is on

:05:26.:05:29.

the back of Jeremy Corbyn's ill timed visit to Calais. Which was

:05:30.:05:37.

interesting. Ill timed why? While I have sympathy for a lot of things

:05:38.:05:41.

he's saying, I'm not sure politically it's the wisest and it

:05:42.:05:44.

coincided also with a group of refugees and migrants storming a

:05:45.:05:48.

ferry. The picture the public is getting is not the most popular

:05:49.:05:53.

message is doing. Even though I have great sympathy for the things he's

:05:54.:05:56.

saying and for his determination against political consensus on it.

:05:57.:06:03.

Orthodoxy. To ram home at a different message. This is about

:06:04.:06:08.

migrant children particularly. It's a story which is curious because

:06:09.:06:11.

there's not much evidence the government is considering the report

:06:12.:06:16.

which save the children have been pushing for a long time to take 3000

:06:17.:06:20.

children. The right thing to do, the government seems to be like an

:06:21.:06:26.

offshoot of save the children. But she ever does not seem to be firm

:06:27.:06:29.

evidence they will act on it although let's hope they are. What

:06:30.:06:34.

they're asking for something quite different because the government has

:06:35.:06:38.

said they will help people and bring people over, I think its 20,000,

:06:39.:06:41.

from camps in the Middle East. This is saying... Over five years. These

:06:42.:06:49.

children have already arrived in Europe. It would be a change and

:06:50.:06:53.

that for the government is slightly dragging its feet. It's interesting

:06:54.:06:59.

how it also plays into the discussions with the Tory party.

:07:00.:07:04.

We've got a comment piece by the prime Mr Balls saying talks should

:07:05.:07:09.

be put on hold until this is sorted out because it's such a big issue

:07:10.:07:17.

now. -- the Prime Minister. David Cameron has not been to Calais and

:07:18.:07:21.

he he is the highest-ranking British politician to go. The riot in

:07:22.:07:26.

protest going on in Calais yesterday, I don't think it

:07:27.:07:31.

coincided with Jeremy Corbyn because it was only announced last minute he

:07:32.:07:35.

was going. That was happening anyway. Let's go on to the Sunday

:07:36.:07:44.

Telegraph. Their front page says Europe, the gloves are off as Tory

:07:45.:07:50.

rift widens. I seem to have been reading that Tory refs since Tories

:07:51.:07:55.

were invented. It makes a change from Labour refs. -- riffs. -- --

:07:56.:08:12.

rifts. . Europe has got to have a considered message which it won't

:08:13.:08:18.

show the public. If the referendum is going to take place, this summer,

:08:19.:08:23.

they have got to look coherently like they're on the same side but

:08:24.:08:27.

most of the people involved in this, Liam Fox, Frank Field, say they are

:08:28.:08:31.

for the outcome pain. Nicholas Soames. They are not the most

:08:32.:08:37.

dynamic figures dare I say in the Conservative Party. Nicholas Soames

:08:38.:08:45.

is pretty noisy. Noisy and dynamic? It ties into what we're talking

:08:46.:08:48.

because they are conflating the migration issue as well. Nicholas

:08:49.:08:52.

owned and Frank Field had a group with a talk about an end of open

:08:53.:08:55.

door policy in Britain which is ludicrous because Britain does not

:08:56.:08:58.

have an open door policy despite some of the myths about it. We are

:08:59.:09:02.

pretty restrictive policy wise compared to Europe. It's the usual

:09:03.:09:09.

suspects on the hard right of the Conservative Party. They are are

:09:10.:09:13.

opposed to the EU trying to push their case. Isn't it also about the

:09:14.:09:19.

politics of the newspaper concerned, as well? I can't remember they have

:09:20.:09:27.

declared which read go, but appears to me the views of the editor and

:09:28.:09:31.

the management and so on, the stories they report on Europe, they

:09:32.:09:35.

seem to be merging together now. It's difficult to pick a path. The

:09:36.:09:40.

Telegraph group is conservative and sceptical. I have no problem with

:09:41.:09:45.

that. They are pushing their cause. You know, it's not like it totally

:09:46.:09:50.

made up story. There are divisions within the Conservative Party which

:09:51.:09:54.

threatened to explode and there is a group of hard right conservatives

:09:55.:09:58.

who are very opposed to Britain's membership and are doing everything

:09:59.:10:01.

to try and put some dynamism into a rather divided and confused campaign

:10:02.:10:07.

to pull out. The most sensible voice in this comes much later down in the

:10:08.:10:12.

story as you might expect. Stephen Crabb, the Welsh Secretary, saying

:10:13.:10:15.

on both sides, if they start to use the language of Project fear, where

:10:16.:10:22.

its scaremongers the public, it does everybody a disservice and really,

:10:23.:10:25.

it's more important, whichever way they go and campaign on both sides,

:10:26.:10:30.

it can't be about the politics of fear. Realistically it has to be

:10:31.:10:33.

because that will have to do with the debate. People are nervous about

:10:34.:10:38.

pulling out of Europe. I think ultimately, Britain will vote to

:10:39.:10:41.

stay in Europe because people are scared of the unknown. And they will

:10:42.:10:45.

be persuaded the risks are too great. Senior Tories accusing David

:10:46.:10:52.

Cameron of bringing back his flash man persona. There's a group of hard

:10:53.:10:57.

like MPs who don't like him and we're prepared to overthrow him

:10:58.:11:02.

after they thought was not going to win the election and were dismayed

:11:03.:11:06.

by the fact he won the election. Let's move on. Still on the front

:11:07.:11:10.

page of the Sunday Telegraph. This is a tale everyone can relate to.

:11:11.:11:16.

The matter of the ?33 million ticket. It's a bit like a film

:11:17.:11:21.

script. The idea that some unfortunate person bought a lottery

:11:22.:11:25.

ticket which defied the odds and one this extraordinary life changing

:11:26.:11:29.

amount of money, 33 million, and she was desperate to go into the house

:11:30.:11:33.

wondering what she done with it. It's a story one can relate to but

:11:34.:11:36.

the question is, whether it will wash. It was in a pair of jeans.

:11:37.:11:44.

Yes, this is the back story. The ticket was in a pair of jeans and

:11:45.:11:47.

went through the washing machine so the bar code which would show

:11:48.:11:51.

whether and where it was bought and the date has conveniently become

:11:52.:11:55.

blurred. But the numbers are still clear. We've all part of ?33 million

:11:56.:12:01.

lottery tickets to the wash, haven't we? What terrible cynics you are.

:12:02.:12:09.

Let's hope it's true. Everybody likes those amazing stories so if

:12:10.:12:12.

it's true, it's a film script waiting to happen. Absolutely.

:12:13.:12:18.

Worcester woman is going to bomb the big screen any time soon, I'm sure.

:12:19.:12:22.

Let's move on. The Sunday express. The front-page story sounds, a tax

:12:23.:12:33.

on four towns foiled by the RAF. -- attacks. This needn't detain us for

:12:34.:12:37.

very long because it has been rather overplayed I would say. Would you

:12:38.:12:41.

give more credence to the lottery woman? Shall we say first of all

:12:42.:12:51.

what it says? This is a conversation picked up by people who listen to

:12:52.:12:55.

pilots and air traffic on an emergency channel by two pilots, not

:12:56.:13:01.

British, very soon after the Paris attacks which is also significant,

:13:02.:13:07.

they were using coded language in Arabic which led the people

:13:08.:13:11.

listening in to believe they were planning to somehow bring into the

:13:12.:13:17.

country chemical weapons and weaponry that would be used in an

:13:18.:13:22.

attack. Now, that is significant and important and, of course, you would

:13:23.:13:25.

expect the monitoring to be very careful in the air and we all know

:13:26.:13:33.

why. But, when the language, the conversations were passed on to

:13:34.:13:36.

GCHQ, it was quickly decided the pilots wear clean, which... How do

:13:37.:13:44.

the RAF get involved? I presume on the channel, the emergency channel,

:13:45.:13:48.

the RAF would have two scramble pretty quickly. My knowledge of

:13:49.:13:55.

aviation security is not a second to say. Again, it would be a great film

:13:56.:14:07.

script it was true. Also, RAF is a good word for headlines. Only three

:14:08.:14:13.

letters. They have now been put on a watchlist of is nothing to suggest

:14:14.:14:19.

this a real and present danger. What strikes me as what's going to

:14:20.:14:23.

undermine any films is the fact attacks on London and Bath and

:14:24.:14:28.

Brighton may be but Ipswich? You never know. Funnily enough I think

:14:29.:14:33.

that's an interesting part about it. I was talking to a colleague

:14:34.:14:35.

yesterday about Oxford Circus, and Buckingham Palace and places where

:14:36.:14:42.

lots of people go but actually, it would be... I always hesitate to

:14:43.:14:49.

talk about Islamic State and propaganda, so-called, that would be

:14:50.:14:56.

a very, very significant way to mobilise a huge amount of

:14:57.:14:58.

national-security in an unprecedented way in this country if

:14:59.:15:00.

the were dotted around the country and not just in one place. Let's

:15:01.:15:06.

move on. Staying with a world of intelligence. The Sunday Times front

:15:07.:15:10.

page about an MI5 officer saying I will expose torturous secrets. This

:15:11.:15:18.

is an interesting story which claims a senior official is prepared to

:15:19.:15:22.

confirm what everyone has long suspected, which is that British

:15:23.:15:25.

intelligence operatives were in some way involved in the interrogation of

:15:26.:15:32.

people being captured and tortured at Guantanamo Bay. And the story

:15:33.:15:37.

says, this senior officer has asked to give evidence to a Parliamentary

:15:38.:15:42.

enquiry, he has not yet been given permission, but it would be quite

:15:43.:15:45.

difficult for the authorities to say no to the person concerned. And if

:15:46.:15:51.

they do, I think it really helps in us getting to grips with something

:15:52.:15:55.

which is Long stained the country and one of the legacies of the new

:15:56.:15:59.

Labour government and their support for what happened in Iraq and

:16:00.:16:03.

elsewhere in the world and Afghanistan, I think this is

:16:04.:16:08.

potentially a big step forward and a really interesting story and put MI5

:16:09.:16:11.

in a very difficult position because they will institutionally want to

:16:12.:16:17.

say no because it is washing their dirty linen in public but, equally,

:16:18.:16:22.

there is a big public interest in this person being allowed to do so

:16:23.:16:25.

so I think it's a fascinating story. Might it not lead on to suspicions

:16:26.:16:30.

around that somehow Britain are not just closing its eyes to what

:16:31.:16:33.

happened in Guantanamo Bay, but might have actually been involved in

:16:34.:16:37.

it? It's always been very, very delicate, the line trod by MI5 that

:16:38.:16:43.

they've always denied participating or condoning any torture of

:16:44.:16:49.

detainees, but there's always the knowledge, slightly difficult point.

:16:50.:16:56.

When I was in Libya, I got these documents showing MI5 were sending

:16:57.:17:01.

over questions to the Libyan authorities under Colonel Gaddafi,

:17:02.:17:04.

the dictator, and they'll actually putting forward the questions that

:17:05.:17:08.

should be asked to people who had been rendered and being tortured and

:17:09.:17:11.

they did on three different occasions. As you say, keeping a lid

:17:12.:17:15.

on this is increasingly difficult and it interesting Dominic Greaves,

:17:16.:17:18.

who heads up the intelligence and security committee has said, if it's

:17:19.:17:23.

the case that this person is trying to get evidence suppressed, that

:17:24.:17:28.

can't be allowed to happen. We have to hear from any interested parties.

:17:29.:17:33.

That is a very interesting element and of course, coming after

:17:34.:17:38.

Alexander Litvinenko the security services are really under the

:17:39.:17:42.

microscope. Lisa, Ian, thank you very much indeed.

:17:43.:17:44.

Just a reminder we take a look at tomorrow's front pages every

:17:45.:17:47.

evening at 10.30 and 11.30 here on BBC News.

:17:48.:18:00.

Really mild this Sunday across the UK but it's going to be

:18:01.:18:04.

crisp and very cold across the eastern side

:18:05.:18:07.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS