24/01/2016 The Papers


A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 24/01/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!



Hello and welcome to our Sunday morning edition of The Papers.


With me are Lisa Markwell, Editor of the Independent on Sunday


and Ian Birrell, Associate Editor of the Mail on Sunday.


The Observer says David Cameron is considering plans to allow


thousands of unaccompanied migrant children into Britain.


The Sunday Express leads on the story that the RAF has foiled


a plan by so-called Islamic State to attack London, Brighton,


The gloves are off says the Sunday Telegraph as Conservative


infighting deepens over whether to stay in the European Union.


The Independent on Sunday's cover photo shows rows of cars under snow


And in the Sunday Times, the story that a former British spy


is to expose what he says was MI5 knowledge of torture at Guantanamo


Good morning to you both. Let's start with the Independent. That is


your newspaper. Why don't we look at the Snow Festival. Ian, help us with


that. A great picture on the front page, cars buried. First of all,


it's caused deaths of people as well but a massive storm. This is the big


overnight story. A one metre has fallen in one area of West Virginia.


Phenomenal. Ten states are in emergency. The number of dead is up


to 18. In New York, five of the six deaths have been caused by people


falling over in the snow but it's a big deal for America and it's


interesting how well-prepared they seem to be in many ways, certainly


from the outside. I'm sure there will be the usual weather fuss about


poor preparations but they close down the tube, police on the streets


and suchlike. It's hard for papers in a way to do justice to this


because it's a very visual thing for television but this picture is great


showing the depth of the snow. What struck me is it was a short time


ago, couple of weeks ago, they were having the mildest weather with


people in short sleeves wondering about Central Park. And Donald Trump


saying he does not believe in global warming because it's cold outside.


There's politics in this as well, of course. Always politics. Extreme


weather is something I think we all have to get used to, between highs


and lows, it happens very suddenly. But the preparation is really


interesting. When we first started to see pictures, you get the usual


thing of people in Central Park on skis and it's snowing, that's


charming, but, as the evening progressed and it became clear it


was unprecedented, and people were dying, you change how you want to


represented visually. Also comes after the hottest year in which you


are right about the extreme weather and the fluctuating conditions. I'm


sure Donald Trump will be angry about it in some way. OK, right,


staying with your paper, Lisa, your main story, schools told to drop


university snobbery. What's this about? Nicky Morgan, the Education


Secretary, has noticed all been briefed, which is very true, but


high-flying state schools, not private schools, are funnelling the


more able pupils very much towards university. That's nothing new, it's


always happened, but they believe it's to the detriment of inner work


and apprenticeships which, if you like, are becoming training for all


pupils because universities and students have debt, it's not


necessarily... There's no guarantee or likelihood you're going to get a


job at the end of university. What's happened is, because there's been so


much emphasis on University, pupils are not even getting the information


in careers advice about the fact that they could be having an


alternative route into employment and so what they want to do through


legislation which is quite unusual, law will be brought in very quickly,


that schools including academies will be compelled to bring in people


from further education colleges and companies to articulate to the


students, you could be coming to us, earning money more quickly and


progressing in your career. While it's an interesting issue, it does


seem pretty crass politics because the Tories are trying to show that


the party of everyone and, at the same time, trying to spread the


message they are backing apprenticeship, the Levy pushed by


George Osborne, which is an interesting thing with tax on


business. You don't need a law with this. This is the government trying


to use legislation to underline a political point and dry home a


political message. It seems silly to clog up Westminster's time with


another needless use of legislation. I presume it will be waved through


very quickly. It's not a contentious because no one is going to oppose


it. Let's go on to the Observer. Wider Java go at this? This is on


the back of Jeremy Corbyn's ill timed visit to Calais. Which was


interesting. Ill timed why? While I have sympathy for a lot of things


he's saying, I'm not sure politically it's the wisest and it


coincided also with a group of refugees and migrants storming a


ferry. The picture the public is getting is not the most popular


message is doing. Even though I have great sympathy for the things he's


saying and for his determination against political consensus on it.


Orthodoxy. To ram home at a different message. This is about


migrant children particularly. It's a story which is curious because


there's not much evidence the government is considering the report


which save the children have been pushing for a long time to take 3000


children. The right thing to do, the government seems to be like an


offshoot of save the children. But she ever does not seem to be firm


evidence they will act on it although let's hope they are. What


they're asking for something quite different because the government has


said they will help people and bring people over, I think its 20,000,


from camps in the Middle East. This is saying... Over five years. These


children have already arrived in Europe. It would be a change and


that for the government is slightly dragging its feet. It's interesting


how it also plays into the discussions with the Tory party.


We've got a comment piece by the prime Mr Balls saying talks should


be put on hold until this is sorted out because it's such a big issue


now. -- the Prime Minister. David Cameron has not been to Calais and


he he is the highest-ranking British politician to go. The riot in


protest going on in Calais yesterday, I don't think it


coincided with Jeremy Corbyn because it was only announced last minute he


was going. That was happening anyway. Let's go on to the Sunday


Telegraph. Their front page says Europe, the gloves are off as Tory


rift widens. I seem to have been reading that Tory refs since Tories


were invented. It makes a change from Labour refs. -- riffs. -- --


rifts. . Europe has got to have a considered message which it won't


show the public. If the referendum is going to take place, this summer,


they have got to look coherently like they're on the same side but


most of the people involved in this, Liam Fox, Frank Field, say they are


for the outcome pain. Nicholas Soames. They are not the most


dynamic figures dare I say in the Conservative Party. Nicholas Soames


is pretty noisy. Noisy and dynamic? It ties into what we're talking


because they are conflating the migration issue as well. Nicholas


owned and Frank Field had a group with a talk about an end of open


door policy in Britain which is ludicrous because Britain does not


have an open door policy despite some of the myths about it. We are


pretty restrictive policy wise compared to Europe. It's the usual


suspects on the hard right of the Conservative Party. They are are


opposed to the EU trying to push their case. Isn't it also about the


politics of the newspaper concerned, as well? I can't remember they have


declared which read go, but appears to me the views of the editor and


the management and so on, the stories they report on Europe, they


seem to be merging together now. It's difficult to pick a path. The


Telegraph group is conservative and sceptical. I have no problem with


that. They are pushing their cause. You know, it's not like it totally


made up story. There are divisions within the Conservative Party which


threatened to explode and there is a group of hard right conservatives


who are very opposed to Britain's membership and are doing everything


to try and put some dynamism into a rather divided and confused campaign


to pull out. The most sensible voice in this comes much later down in the


story as you might expect. Stephen Crabb, the Welsh Secretary, saying


on both sides, if they start to use the language of Project fear, where


its scaremongers the public, it does everybody a disservice and really,


it's more important, whichever way they go and campaign on both sides,


it can't be about the politics of fear. Realistically it has to be


because that will have to do with the debate. People are nervous about


pulling out of Europe. I think ultimately, Britain will vote to


stay in Europe because people are scared of the unknown. And they will


be persuaded the risks are too great. Senior Tories accusing David


Cameron of bringing back his flash man persona. There's a group of hard


like MPs who don't like him and we're prepared to overthrow him


after they thought was not going to win the election and were dismayed


by the fact he won the election. Let's move on. Still on the front


page of the Sunday Telegraph. This is a tale everyone can relate to.


The matter of the ?33 million ticket. It's a bit like a film


script. The idea that some unfortunate person bought a lottery


ticket which defied the odds and one this extraordinary life changing


amount of money, 33 million, and she was desperate to go into the house


wondering what she done with it. It's a story one can relate to but


the question is, whether it will wash. It was in a pair of jeans.


Yes, this is the back story. The ticket was in a pair of jeans and


went through the washing machine so the bar code which would show


whether and where it was bought and the date has conveniently become


blurred. But the numbers are still clear. We've all part of ?33 million


lottery tickets to the wash, haven't we? What terrible cynics you are.


Let's hope it's true. Everybody likes those amazing stories so if


it's true, it's a film script waiting to happen. Absolutely.


Worcester woman is going to bomb the big screen any time soon, I'm sure.


Let's move on. The Sunday express. The front-page story sounds, a tax


on four towns foiled by the RAF. -- attacks. This needn't detain us for


very long because it has been rather overplayed I would say. Would you


give more credence to the lottery woman? Shall we say first of all


what it says? This is a conversation picked up by people who listen to


pilots and air traffic on an emergency channel by two pilots, not


British, very soon after the Paris attacks which is also significant,


they were using coded language in Arabic which led the people


listening in to believe they were planning to somehow bring into the


country chemical weapons and weaponry that would be used in an


attack. Now, that is significant and important and, of course, you would


expect the monitoring to be very careful in the air and we all know


why. But, when the language, the conversations were passed on to


GCHQ, it was quickly decided the pilots wear clean, which... How do


the RAF get involved? I presume on the channel, the emergency channel,


the RAF would have two scramble pretty quickly. My knowledge of


aviation security is not a second to say. Again, it would be a great film


script it was true. Also, RAF is a good word for headlines. Only three


letters. They have now been put on a watchlist of is nothing to suggest


this a real and present danger. What strikes me as what's going to


undermine any films is the fact attacks on London and Bath and


Brighton may be but Ipswich? You never know. Funnily enough I think


that's an interesting part about it. I was talking to a colleague


yesterday about Oxford Circus, and Buckingham Palace and places where


lots of people go but actually, it would be... I always hesitate to


talk about Islamic State and propaganda, so-called, that would be


a very, very significant way to mobilise a huge amount of


national-security in an unprecedented way in this country if


the were dotted around the country and not just in one place. Let's


move on. Staying with a world of intelligence. The Sunday Times front


page about an MI5 officer saying I will expose torturous secrets. This


is an interesting story which claims a senior official is prepared to


confirm what everyone has long suspected, which is that British


intelligence operatives were in some way involved in the interrogation of


people being captured and tortured at Guantanamo Bay. And the story


says, this senior officer has asked to give evidence to a Parliamentary


enquiry, he has not yet been given permission, but it would be quite


difficult for the authorities to say no to the person concerned. And if


they do, I think it really helps in us getting to grips with something


which is Long stained the country and one of the legacies of the new


Labour government and their support for what happened in Iraq and


elsewhere in the world and Afghanistan, I think this is


potentially a big step forward and a really interesting story and put MI5


in a very difficult position because they will institutionally want to


say no because it is washing their dirty linen in public but, equally,


there is a big public interest in this person being allowed to do so


so I think it's a fascinating story. Might it not lead on to suspicions


around that somehow Britain are not just closing its eyes to what


happened in Guantanamo Bay, but might have actually been involved in


it? It's always been very, very delicate, the line trod by MI5 that


they've always denied participating or condoning any torture of


detainees, but there's always the knowledge, slightly difficult point.


When I was in Libya, I got these documents showing MI5 were sending


over questions to the Libyan authorities under Colonel Gaddafi,


the dictator, and they'll actually putting forward the questions that


should be asked to people who had been rendered and being tortured and


they did on three different occasions. As you say, keeping a lid


on this is increasingly difficult and it interesting Dominic Greaves,


who heads up the intelligence and security committee has said, if it's


the case that this person is trying to get evidence suppressed, that


can't be allowed to happen. We have to hear from any interested parties.


That is a very interesting element and of course, coming after


Alexander Litvinenko the security services are really under the


microscope. Lisa, Ian, thank you very much indeed.


Just a reminder we take a look at tomorrow's front pages every


evening at 10.30 and 11.30 here on BBC News.


Really mild this Sunday across the UK but it's going to be


crisp and very cold across the eastern side


Download Subtitles