20/02/2016 The Papers

Hello and welcome to our look ahead to what The Papers will be bringing

us tomorrow. With me the author and journalist Rachel Shabi. Welcome.

Tim Stanley, columnist with the Telegraph. Before we speak to them,

let us look at what the front-pages are saying so you can get

up-to-date. The European referendum dominates all of them. The Observer

leads with a quote from David Cameron. The choice is in your

hands. He says he believes Britain will be safer and stronger if it

stays within the European Union. The independent on Sunday says Mr

Cameron is playing on voters' fears by putting safety at the centre of

the battle. The Express says the EU is stuck in the past. Mail on sauped

says Michael Gove and Boris Johnson who himself has not declared which

side of the campaign he will be on are engaged in a secret plot

reporting on a pair before Mr Gove announced his intention to support

the vote to leave campaign. Sunday time says the Prime Minister has

declared war on the ministers who want the leave the EU. Accusing them

of making misleading claims that Britain's borders can be sealed by

exiting the block. Sunday Telegraph which using the same photograph of

those leaving opponent reports on what it calls a cab nth net divided.

Those are the principal front-pages. Let us look at them in more detail.

Let us start, Tim, with the end on Sunday and that very striking image

of Michael Gove and David Cameron. -- independent on Sunday. Do you

think Michael Gove is going to be the leading light of this no

campaign? Fact we are reporting he has said he will not be, he intends

to take a back seat and let others do that, but because he is the first

senior figure to let it be known he is going to come for leave, and

because he wrote this stunning, very intellectually solid and convincing

1500 word piece many of the newspapers are carrying about why he

wants to leave. He has projected himself into the leadership of this

campaign, if you look at the photo, I can't help but feel that Boris

Johnson ought to be there in that photo. It ought to be Boris versus

Cameron. I wonder if Boris will think think that too. Heal has

allowed someone else to take leadership. Dithering or calculating

do you think? Well, it is hard to tell whether he is calculating as in

what is going to be most politically advantageous or whether he really is

genuinely torn by this decision, but I do think it is great that the

Conservative Party, having board us all to tears with this never ending

debate on what Cameron can get out of the of Brussels and that

negotiation and forcing us to have a very right-wing conversation in very

right-wing terms about the referendum, I do think it is great

they at least have the decency to give us the spectacle of them

falling apart. And to have a very sort of games of thrones style, you

know, plots by Boris. Here it is on the front of the Mail on Sunday.

They gave us this referendum because the public wanted to. They gave us

this referendum because they were terrified of Ukip. It was

unnecessary. If Cameron had stood up to that, at that time, we wouldn't

be in this situation, having to talk about this and being on every

front-page. I never voted for the Tories having a referendum. The

public voted for the referendum or Ukip. Are you curious that the

Mail... Very pleased that this referendum is happen, very pleased

that people Michael Gove and so on, people like Michael Gove and so

on... You are the first person I have heard saying they are thrilled.

We will come back to to it. Are you surprised the Mail on Sunday has

taken the line, instead of celebrating the outers it seems to

be suggesting there is a devious plot, complete with blurry

photographs and late-night dinners and couriers turning up with

mysterious packages. Michael Gove and Boris Johnson and by the use of

this tell photo lens it looks like they are having an affair. It would

be far more interesting. Aside from this being a debate about Europe,

this is a debate about the Tory party. Even knows that Cameron will

step down in a couple of years type. That is what he said he will do,

people are calculating not only how should I campaign according to

principle bus how should I campaign as to what would put me in a good

position when he goes. Shadow Cabinet have to make a decision. Do

I stand by loyally with my Prime Minister who can help me with job, a

vans, who can ease me into replacing him, do I take a risk, put myself on

the side of the party and present myself as a successor to Cameron who

is Eurosceptic. You say David Cameron you think will be gone in a

couple of years if the referendum goes against him, do you think... He

will be gone overnight. Someone who has decided to stick the knife into

his front rather this than his back is going to be the person who is

going to do best out of that when he goes. That is one more reason, by

the way why so many Cabinet Minister, even though many more are

Eurosceptic, they have hung back because they know that by saying to

Cameron I am going to campaign for Brexit they are saying I am

campaigning to take away your job. It is very difficult to say that to

a Prime Minister. We hear about how euro esceptic the Conservative Party

is in terms of membership. It used to be said that loyalty was a

Conservative Party secret card. Do you think that would be play against

in terms of a vote by members who might be Eurosceptic but sense

people are being disloyal to the outgoing leader. Yes. I think a lot

of however much the party say this is an important decision and that I

are passionate about it, essentially what is happening now, is that they

are all plotting, in terms of what is best for their career. Look at

side Javid. He says my heart say, my head say we are better off in. It is

all just going to be political calculation, why we are on the

subject and you know trivialise it but we have to find

something interesting to say about it, why do they need a courier to

deliver fresh shirts? This is the double inside page of the Mail. I am

going to put it on the top. On the left-hand side, is a man turning up

at the door and he, we are told delivering fresh shirts. They are at

a dinner party. It is not like they are doing negotiations. Possibly

Paul Burstow is a messy eater. Maybe that is it, his spaghetti hoops fall

on his shirt. I always end up with food on a white shirt. The Sunday

Times picks up on internal politics. David Cameron declares war on

rebels. Will he extract revenge on those who dare to say I disagree. I

don't know if he would. It would be a mistake to perpetuate a war. The

point of this referendum is to shut things down to, have the vote,

resolve it and move on. Let us have petty endless recriminations for

years to come. The Telegraph carries the same photo. It is significant

the six Cabinet Ministers decided to vote leave campaign rather than or

the grass roots outcome pain, they are choosing the more Tory, big

business campaign, and in the same way this is a battle over the future

of the Tory party, believe it or not this referendum is a battle over the

future of the British independence movement. Because there are those

who want it to be a grass roots thing, those who want it to be a

immigration thing, we won't be hearing about Tory infighting we

will hear a lot about euro accept Tinne tick fighting. I can't decide

which is worse. I talked to a senior figure from Vote Leave who was

confident that campaign is going to get the official designation, so it

will be the official leave campaign. If that happens will the others

just, you know fall in line? Fair enough, you won, and we will join,

because the bigger campaign is the fight to get Britain out. You would

think that would be the case. I have heard rumours that if another

organisation gets it they intend to sue, they intend to sue because the

Electoral Commission is making a decision to back a group of people

who as they see it are not the true artic lay fors of the Eurosceptic

cause. They are not the people's front of Judea. You have to

understand this is 20 years of campaign, who slept with who, who

cut off who in the car park, who was rude to who ease wife, over 20 years

of this kind of politics on the fringe, it has never been properly

tested in an electoral environment, suddenly they thrown into the

limelight and these are people who will lead the campaign for the

future independence of Britain. These are the people you support.

That is great. Is it is the people of Britain I support. You mention

the people of Britain, let us talk about the public and the voter, They

matter in all this. It is down to, it is down to the population, the

adult population of this country, they have a vote. The Observer

getting that the with this quote from the Prime Minister. Choices in

your hands. He has his view but the choice is in your hands. How do you

think we are going to engage with this? Are we going to engage? Is

something going to happen, do you think it will enthuse us? This is

the problem I have with the debate. It isn't a debate. It's a debate

that is on the fringe of stuff that is completely irrelevant and

unimportant. The fact that Cameron was negotiating over inwork benefits

for eastern Europeans, which you know, is not what matters, to

anybody, really. What I would like to see more of, is you know, if the

remainors or what ever we are going to people who want to stay in, we

are not seeing a progressive argument for staying in Europe. That

is the bit that worries me. That is the bit that will engage people, if

anything. This is an interesting point. It came up in an interview

Jeremy Corbyn did earlier today. He said I will be campaigning for

Britain to stay in but for a Britain that is focussed on different things

than the things that the Prime Minister has been talking about. I

mean are those sorts of subjects, I mean you may have a view on with

where the Labour Party find itself in this debate. One would expect

Labour to be playing a big part in that campaign, is it? If the Prime

Minister has tried to get small fry reforms and failed, and conceded

that failure, I can't believe... None of which happened, any way. I

cannot believe that the Labour Party, if Jeremy Corbyn were ever to

be Prime Minister, would be able to reform Europe to turn it into a

democratic socialist state. So I don't see, but the very fact. That

is not what he is say, so there are two things wrong with that sentence,

one is that Cameron didn't get what he asked for which he did more or

less and two is what Corbyn is saying about the EU. This is the

fundamental thing, that might engage people, is that is guaranteeing

things that matter to people, things like workers' right, parental leave,

things like you know Working Time Directive and guaranteeing rights

for part-time workers. Things that make a difference on a day-to-day

basis of people's lives, are decided at EU level and are guaranteed,

because of the EU. The people who support leave are saying it's the

British people who should decide. This is a debate about sovereignty.

It is is. I think we will be in... What kind of Democrat you you don't

trust the British public to vote... I didn't say that. I said I don't

trust the Conservative government. They will engage in a race to the

bottom and take away those right, that is their thing. How many people

voted for the Conservatives? So, in theory you, so you are saying that

some ex entering authority to which we have surrendered sovereignty...

We have not... Does something you don't agree with. That is an

extraordinary. We have allowed them to enshrine basic human rights on a

European wide level. That is a good thing. There has to be a body, if

Government... It is called the courts, the House of Lords. The

British Supreme Court. We have them. If they have failed the public which

you claim to care about they need somewhere else to be able to go. Why

would the British democratic system fail the public it is the public. It

is what the people want. That is a beautiful sentiment. I am sure in

text books that works fine, but in reality it doesn't, it hasn't. What

about the Prime Minister's Questions front page. EU stuck in the past.

Are you prepared to consode that I am not like... I am not here to say

the EU is fab, I think it is a hugely problematic entity. It think

it has been very undemocratic. I think it receives corporations more

than individuals. But you trust it more than whoever the British people

vote for. Don't load the argument. Don't provide me with a loaded

sentence. What I am saying is it does guarantee basic things which

are important to people, on a day-to-day basis. I don't know what

this is that it guarantees. You don't think those Working Time

Directives and paternity leave and maternity leave... This is stuff a

British Parliament could introduce itself. Yet it hasn't. You should

encourage the British people to vote for a government that does that. You

have given us a dry-run of what is going to be four months of... How

can you call this boar something It hasn't been boring for me. Let me,

let us in passing, before we... If it is boaring you will win. That is

how it will work. Let us in passing before we end this particular paper

review, we will be back in an hour's time, maybe a nod to one story that

came out today on the front of the Express. Yes, yes, Paul Daniels the

family, his family have said he has an incurable brain tumour. It sad

and very brave to let the public know in advance and talk about it.

It is one of this dealing with death, dealing with a relative you

know is going the die, in that terminal situation, it is very

difficult because you have to make judgments about do we let people

know or do we do it in secret? Sometimes the best thing to do is

let people know so people can be there, know how to respond and they

can help you if they can, so I think it is one of those teachable moments

in British life. He is a very loved entertainer and he will be very

missed. A bigger challenge when you are a public figure. Not just

letting friends and relative, it is whether you let the world know. We

saw different ways of dealing with this. David Bowie, who didn't let

anybody know and let his music, work say goodbye, but I think you know,

it is a personal decision, you know, whether you decide to go public or

not and there is all sorts of reasons on either side you would or

wouldn't. It is very brave of him. It gives us a chance to think of the

pleasure he has brought over the years and show appreciation why he

is still with us. You will be back in an hour with more, less than an

hour, that is something to look forward to. Thank you for up

company. Let us cross to John for a weather forecast.

A lot of variety in the weather up and down the UK. Some cold for many

mild, and for a good few of us rain round.