20/02/2016 The Papers


20/02/2016

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Hello and welcome to our look ahead to what The Papers will be bringing

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us tomorrow. With me the author and journalist Rachel Shabi. Welcome.

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Tim Stanley, columnist with the Telegraph. Before we speak to them,

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let us look at what the front-pages are saying so you can get

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up-to-date. The European referendum dominates all of them. The Observer

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leads with a quote from David Cameron. The choice is in your

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hands. He says he believes Britain will be safer and stronger if it

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stays within the European Union. The independent on Sunday says Mr

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Cameron is playing on voters' fears by putting safety at the centre of

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the battle. The Express says the EU is stuck in the past. Mail on sauped

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says Michael Gove and Boris Johnson who himself has not declared which

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side of the campaign he will be on are engaged in a secret plot

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reporting on a pair before Mr Gove announced his intention to support

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the vote to leave campaign. Sunday time says the Prime Minister has

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declared war on the ministers who want the leave the EU. Accusing them

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of making misleading claims that Britain's borders can be sealed by

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exiting the block. Sunday Telegraph which using the same photograph of

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those leaving opponent reports on what it calls a cab nth net divided.

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Those are the principal front-pages. Let us look at them in more detail.

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Let us start, Tim, with the end on Sunday and that very striking image

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of Michael Gove and David Cameron. -- independent on Sunday. Do you

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think Michael Gove is going to be the leading light of this no

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campaign? Fact we are reporting he has said he will not be, he intends

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to take a back seat and let others do that, but because he is the first

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senior figure to let it be known he is going to come for leave, and

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because he wrote this stunning, very intellectually solid and convincing

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1500 word piece many of the newspapers are carrying about why he

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wants to leave. He has projected himself into the leadership of this

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campaign, if you look at the photo, I can't help but feel that Boris

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Johnson ought to be there in that photo. It ought to be Boris versus

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Cameron. I wonder if Boris will think think that too. Heal has

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allowed someone else to take leadership. Dithering or calculating

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do you think? Well, it is hard to tell whether he is calculating as in

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what is going to be most politically advantageous or whether he really is

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genuinely torn by this decision, but I do think it is great that the

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Conservative Party, having board us all to tears with this never ending

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debate on what Cameron can get out of the of Brussels and that

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negotiation and forcing us to have a very right-wing conversation in very

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right-wing terms about the referendum, I do think it is great

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they at least have the decency to give us the spectacle of them

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falling apart. And to have a very sort of games of thrones style, you

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know, plots by Boris. Here it is on the front of the Mail on Sunday.

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They gave us this referendum because the public wanted to. They gave us

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this referendum because they were terrified of Ukip. It was

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unnecessary. If Cameron had stood up to that, at that time, we wouldn't

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be in this situation, having to talk about this and being on every

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front-page. I never voted for the Tories having a referendum. The

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public voted for the referendum or Ukip. Are you curious that the

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Mail... Very pleased that this referendum is happen, very pleased

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that people Michael Gove and so on, people like Michael Gove and so

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on... You are the first person I have heard saying they are thrilled.

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We will come back to to it. Are you surprised the Mail on Sunday has

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taken the line, instead of celebrating the outers it seems to

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be suggesting there is a devious plot, complete with blurry

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photographs and late-night dinners and couriers turning up with

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mysterious packages. Michael Gove and Boris Johnson and by the use of

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this tell photo lens it looks like they are having an affair. It would

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be far more interesting. Aside from this being a debate about Europe,

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this is a debate about the Tory party. Even knows that Cameron will

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step down in a couple of years type. That is what he said he will do,

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people are calculating not only how should I campaign according to

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principle bus how should I campaign as to what would put me in a good

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position when he goes. Shadow Cabinet have to make a decision. Do

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I stand by loyally with my Prime Minister who can help me with job, a

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vans, who can ease me into replacing him, do I take a risk, put myself on

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the side of the party and present myself as a successor to Cameron who

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is Eurosceptic. You say David Cameron you think will be gone in a

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couple of years if the referendum goes against him, do you think... He

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will be gone overnight. Someone who has decided to stick the knife into

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his front rather this than his back is going to be the person who is

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going to do best out of that when he goes. That is one more reason, by

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the way why so many Cabinet Minister, even though many more are

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Eurosceptic, they have hung back because they know that by saying to

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Cameron I am going to campaign for Brexit they are saying I am

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campaigning to take away your job. It is very difficult to say that to

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a Prime Minister. We hear about how euro esceptic the Conservative Party

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is in terms of membership. It used to be said that loyalty was a

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Conservative Party secret card. Do you think that would be play against

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in terms of a vote by members who might be Eurosceptic but sense

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people are being disloyal to the outgoing leader. Yes. I think a lot

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of however much the party say this is an important decision and that I

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are passionate about it, essentially what is happening now, is that they

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are all plotting, in terms of what is best for their career. Look at

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side Javid. He says my heart say, my head say we are better off in. It is

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all just going to be political calculation, why we are on the

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subject and you know trivialise it but we have to find

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something interesting to say about it, why do they need a courier to

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deliver fresh shirts? This is the double inside page of the Mail. I am

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going to put it on the top. On the left-hand side, is a man turning up

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at the door and he, we are told delivering fresh shirts. They are at

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a dinner party. It is not like they are doing negotiations. Possibly

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Paul Burstow is a messy eater. Maybe that is it, his spaghetti hoops fall

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on his shirt. I always end up with food on a white shirt. The Sunday

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Times picks up on internal politics. David Cameron declares war on

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rebels. Will he extract revenge on those who dare to say I disagree. I

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don't know if he would. It would be a mistake to perpetuate a war. The

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point of this referendum is to shut things down to, have the vote,

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resolve it and move on. Let us have petty endless recriminations for

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years to come. The Telegraph carries the same photo. It is significant

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the six Cabinet Ministers decided to vote leave campaign rather than or

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the grass roots outcome pain, they are choosing the more Tory, big

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business campaign, and in the same way this is a battle over the future

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of the Tory party, believe it or not this referendum is a battle over the

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future of the British independence movement. Because there are those

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who want it to be a grass roots thing, those who want it to be a

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immigration thing, we won't be hearing about Tory infighting we

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will hear a lot about euro accept Tinne tick fighting. I can't decide

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which is worse. I talked to a senior figure from Vote Leave who was

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confident that campaign is going to get the official designation, so it

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will be the official leave campaign. If that happens will the others

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just, you know fall in line? Fair enough, you won, and we will join,

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because the bigger campaign is the fight to get Britain out. You would

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think that would be the case. I have heard rumours that if another

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organisation gets it they intend to sue, they intend to sue because the

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Electoral Commission is making a decision to back a group of people

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who as they see it are not the true artic lay fors of the Eurosceptic

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cause. They are not the people's front of Judea. You have to

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understand this is 20 years of campaign, who slept with who, who

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cut off who in the car park, who was rude to who ease wife, over 20 years

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of this kind of politics on the fringe, it has never been properly

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tested in an electoral environment, suddenly they thrown into the

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limelight and these are people who will lead the campaign for the

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future independence of Britain. These are the people you support.

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That is great. Is it is the people of Britain I support. You mention

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the people of Britain, let us talk about the public and the voter, They

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matter in all this. It is down to, it is down to the population, the

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adult population of this country, they have a vote. The Observer

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getting that the with this quote from the Prime Minister. Choices in

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your hands. He has his view but the choice is in your hands. How do you

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think we are going to engage with this? Are we going to engage? Is

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something going to happen, do you think it will enthuse us? This is

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the problem I have with the debate. It isn't a debate. It's a debate

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that is on the fringe of stuff that is completely irrelevant and

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unimportant. The fact that Cameron was negotiating over inwork benefits

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for eastern Europeans, which you know, is not what matters, to

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anybody, really. What I would like to see more of, is you know, if the

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remainors or what ever we are going to people who want to stay in, we

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are not seeing a progressive argument for staying in Europe. That

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is the bit that worries me. That is the bit that will engage people, if

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anything. This is an interesting point. It came up in an interview

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Jeremy Corbyn did earlier today. He said I will be campaigning for

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Britain to stay in but for a Britain that is focussed on different things

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than the things that the Prime Minister has been talking about. I

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mean are those sorts of subjects, I mean you may have a view on with

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where the Labour Party find itself in this debate. One would expect

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Labour to be playing a big part in that campaign, is it? If the Prime

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Minister has tried to get small fry reforms and failed, and conceded

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that failure, I can't believe... None of which happened, any way. I

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cannot believe that the Labour Party, if Jeremy Corbyn were ever to

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be Prime Minister, would be able to reform Europe to turn it into a

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democratic socialist state. So I don't see, but the very fact. That

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is not what he is say, so there are two things wrong with that sentence,

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one is that Cameron didn't get what he asked for which he did more or

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less and two is what Corbyn is saying about the EU. This is the

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fundamental thing, that might engage people, is that is guaranteeing

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things that matter to people, things like workers' right, parental leave,

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things like you know Working Time Directive and guaranteeing rights

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for part-time workers. Things that make a difference on a day-to-day

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basis of people's lives, are decided at EU level and are guaranteed,

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because of the EU. The people who support leave are saying it's the

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British people who should decide. This is a debate about sovereignty.

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It is is. I think we will be in... What kind of Democrat you you don't

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trust the British public to vote... I didn't say that. I said I don't

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trust the Conservative government. They will engage in a race to the

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bottom and take away those right, that is their thing. How many people

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voted for the Conservatives? So, in theory you, so you are saying that

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some ex entering authority to which we have surrendered sovereignty...

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We have not... Does something you don't agree with. That is an

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extraordinary. We have allowed them to enshrine basic human rights on a

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European wide level. That is a good thing. There has to be a body, if

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Government... It is called the courts, the House of Lords. The

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British Supreme Court. We have them. If they have failed the public which

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you claim to care about they need somewhere else to be able to go. Why

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would the British democratic system fail the public it is the public. It

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is what the people want. That is a beautiful sentiment. I am sure in

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text books that works fine, but in reality it doesn't, it hasn't. What

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about the Prime Minister's Questions front page. EU stuck in the past.

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Are you prepared to consode that I am not like... I am not here to say

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the EU is fab, I think it is a hugely problematic entity. It think

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it has been very undemocratic. I think it receives corporations more

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than individuals. But you trust it more than whoever the British people

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vote for. Don't load the argument. Don't provide me with a loaded

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sentence. What I am saying is it does guarantee basic things which

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are important to people, on a day-to-day basis. I don't know what

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this is that it guarantees. You don't think those Working Time

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Directives and paternity leave and maternity leave... This is stuff a

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British Parliament could introduce itself. Yet it hasn't. You should

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encourage the British people to vote for a government that does that. You

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have given us a dry-run of what is going to be four months of... How

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can you call this boar something It hasn't been boring for me. Let me,

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let us in passing, before we... If it is boaring you will win. That is

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how it will work. Let us in passing before we end this particular paper

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review, we will be back in an hour's time, maybe a nod to one story that

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came out today on the front of the Express. Yes, yes, Paul Daniels the

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family, his family have said he has an incurable brain tumour. It sad

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and very brave to let the public know in advance and talk about it.

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It is one of this dealing with death, dealing with a relative you

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know is going the die, in that terminal situation, it is very

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difficult because you have to make judgments about do we let people

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know or do we do it in secret? Sometimes the best thing to do is

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let people know so people can be there, know how to respond and they

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can help you if they can, so I think it is one of those teachable moments

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in British life. He is a very loved entertainer and he will be very

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missed. A bigger challenge when you are a public figure. Not just

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letting friends and relative, it is whether you let the world know. We

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saw different ways of dealing with this. David Bowie, who didn't let

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anybody know and let his music, work say goodbye, but I think you know,

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it is a personal decision, you know, whether you decide to go public or

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not and there is all sorts of reasons on either side you would or

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wouldn't. It is very brave of him. It gives us a chance to think of the

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pleasure he has brought over the years and show appreciation why he

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is still with us. You will be back in an hour with more, less than an

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hour, that is something to look forward to. Thank you for up

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company. Let us cross to John for a weather forecast.

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A lot of variety in the weather up and down the UK. Some cold for many

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mild, and for a good few of us rain round.

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