22/05/2016 The Papers


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Hello and welcome to our Sunday morning edition of The Papers.


With me are Eleanor Mills, editorial director of


The Sunday Times, and Hugh Muir, columnist for The Guardian.


Today's front pages: The Sunday Times leads


with the much-delayed Chilcott Report into the Iraq War.


The paper claims the report will deliver a 'brutal verdict'


on senior government figures including Tony Blair.


The Sunday Telegraph leads with the EU referendum,


it says a government leak has laid bare a trade war


The Mail on Sunday has a warning from high street bosses


claiming prices will soar if Britain leaves the EU.


It reports 12 million Turkish migrants will head to the UK


The Sunday Times leads with the much-delayed


Seven years on, it is meant to be released on July the 6th. We have


got a really good read out of what we think is going to be in it.


Basically, it's interesting because it kind of tells us what we already


knew, that there were real problems around the intelligence and the way


that it was spun, and the whole dodgy dossier, but it also paints a


bleak picture of the lack of pace invasion planning, so we know that


the British had big problems in Basra, and the Americans had to help


us out. It is saying that actually the second half of the report, which


looks at not what got us into war, but what happened while we were


there, shows real problems within the whole UK administration of


Basra, southern Iraqi, and that we didn't know what we were doing. We


would like to pride ourselves that we did, so having got rid of Saddam


Hussein, dismantling all of his structure was not a great idea, and


these rather naive ideas in Whitehall that this was immediately


going to be a peaceful transition to democracy did not help. Yes, that


they would welcome democracy with flowers, but instability was what


was left. Yes, people were nervous about seeing this report and they


will be even more nervous now. Jack Straw was named as someone who would


have a particular reason to worry and he was strongly criticised. That


is part of the reason for the delay. Chilcott was forced to tell them,


this is the kind of criticism you will encounter and give them an


opportunity to reply. One of the problems as Alan says, a lot of it


is going to be familiar to us, and it has taken so long, and you do


wonder what the impact will be, given that we know the broad themes.


There are villains here, we kind of note who they are, and we know what


they did, so really the report will be on the majorly, but that will


sack some of its impact. I'm not sure we are going to learn anything


new. A fair point, but it does play into our reluctance to get involved


in foreign adventures, the public's reluctance. If you break it, you own


it, as Colin Powell just said, ... That is interesting. What we did not


know about this report is what it is saying about the aftermath and how


bad things really had got in Basra, and who is responsible for that. A


lot of the argument about this report has been the general saying


yes, this went wrong, but these were political decisions. We are implying


that Jack Straw is going to come in for a much bigger troubling than


people had expected. Things like Tony Blair has had to push a year


out that he would support him in a ruck by backing military action, all


of those kind of things we know, but it may be the granular detail of


actually what a hash we made of it on the ground, that people will be


light shocked by. The remit of this report was that he wanted government


in the future to make better decisions, and a real tragedy of all


of this is that we have left Iraqi where the whole of northern Iraqi


has been overrun by Isis. The Americans got out of there very


quickly. We decided it had all been a decided and we had messed it up so


we were getting out, so we have created this nightmare dystopian


chaos in northern Iraq and Syria, where people are dying in their


hundreds and thousands. It'll be interesting how this moves us


forward because as you say we have got into other ventures since then,


and we haven't handled the aftermath any better. As someone once said we


don't do nation-building. An Iraqi friend of mine says an Arab proverb


says 1000 years of tyranny is better than one year of chaos. A depressing


thought. The male is very interesting -- the Mail on Sunday.


Prices to soar if we whip the EU. Catastrophe on the high street. For


giants of UK retail break silence. It has got stuff about Boris Johnson


on page eight. Boris offers Number 11 keys to three MPs when he is at


number ten. What is going on here? It is almost a special EU edition of


the Mail on Sunday. You have got different angles coming at you from


different sides. One may have chosen to give most prominent is too is, as


you say, these high Street bosses, Tesco, Sainsbury's, Marks Spencer


is and B, saying that if we leave the EU that will have a devastating


effect on the economy. This is the camera crew remained strategy to


say, never mind the romanticism of it, which is the Leave campaign main


card, here are the hard nuts and bolts, this is what actually happens


to the economy if you decide to make this decision. We have got a month


of this to go, but I think the remaining campaign will focus almost


exclusively on this because they can't read compete in terms of the


romanticism and if we leave we will make Britain great again. They can't


match that, but they can say, folks, think hard, it will cost you. Your


mortgage, the country's economy is fragile. It won't be pretty, but it


could be quite effective. This is project fear. Yesterday, George


Osborne was saying house prices will drop 18%, now all the supermarket


bosses are going to say ever they will get more expensive. The IMF is


saying it is a disaster. I think there is a risk here that people get


a bit sick of the doom mongering, and we have a lot of it is about


whether we should join the euro or not, and if we don't join it it'll


be a disaster. We had in Scotland around the referendum there, and


there's a danger the public feel Banged Up Abroad the establishment.


Of course these big businesses, being in the EU help them, but if


you look at small businesses, they are less keen. They talk about the


red tape and the amount of money it costs them. If you talk about the


romanticism of the Leave campaign, that is also getting pretty grim.


It's increasingly about immigration. All this scaremongering about


Turkey. The cover of the Daily Express today. Yes, let's look at


that now. 12 million Turkish people say they will come to the UK. Have


they talked to all of them? This is a survey. They know them all


personally. They are much more likely to go to Germany, in the


unlikely event of Turkey joining the EU any time soon. Exactly. The level


of debate on both sides is pretty pathetic. We have got a project fear


going you are going to be skint, it is a disaster, and Vote Leave saying


we are going to get swamped, these horrible phrases about the kind of


people who will come here. And the Sunday express is really about how


they are all criminals, murderers, they have higher rates of crime in


Turkey, and all the students and unemployed are coming here. They


have spoken to 2000 -- 2600 people, but to extrapolate that is 12


million people arriving on our doors! Then there is a little thing


from Nigel Farage. Their enthusiasm from the Germans or the French, and


given away that Austrian politics are going today O'Groats really


scary. There is always this assumption that if people can come


to this country then they will. A lot of people will, but a lot of


people won't. It is a big decision to move to another country. When you


see a headline like this, it does its job, it attracts attention, but


you really have to question it. I remember when he talked about


Romanians coming here, the original figure was 29 million. That didn't


happen either. The Blair government said yes we can open the EU to all


these countries in Eastern Europe. I think they said it would be about


40,000 people. It was more like 500,000 or a million, it has been a


lot. I do think that people have rightful... That's because this is a


great country! And London is a great centre and people want to be here.


But it does not mean everyone wants to be here! When you get outside


London, people are much more worried about it than they are in London. In


London, we feel we are a melting pot, the whole world is in London


and it is exciting, but out of London people worry about their


jobs, they see their wages going down and they don't like it. The


less familiar you are with immigration and how that can be


great, the more worried you are about it. When the Leave campaign


talk about project fear, will they talk about headlines like this? It


is the other side of the coin. The level of debate is dire and we have


got another month to go. The Battle of Britain on a 32 days to go, this


is in the Mail on Sunday. This piece about Boris Johnson, there are some


people quietly within the Leave campaign who think that he has not


hit a lot of the right votes, that he is not the master of detail, and


that the rhetoric has been wrong. What do you think? In a way, this is


a little bit unsurprising. People who watched him as the Mayor of


London, people who watched him closely won't be surprised at all.


He is great entertainment and he adds great gaiety to our nation in


terms of politics, but when has been a hot political issue to address, he


has never been that good at doing it. It really was a risk making him


the figurehead of the Leave campaign in the way that they have. There are


several flaws. One of them is that Boris must always be Boris, so it's


difficult for him to address a political subject in a sober way. In


some ways, this is quite a sober argument. Boris almost takes the


schoolboy throwing the stink bomb in the room approach, and that was


never going to work. I think the wheels are coming off that as well,


this does not look good for him. Him offering the Treasury job to three


different MPs. What they are actually saying is that with all the


shambling and the messing around, a does not look very statesman-like.


Some senior Tories come out, like Michael Heseltine, what he is saying


about the Hitler project unifying Europe last weekend showed a total


lack of John O'Groats and the limerick about the Turkish


president. It does not feel very statesman-like. Boris is funny and


he is great, he is jolly company, but this is serious and he does not


really seem to be making the transition to the politician that


can reach parts other can't reach, the Heineken Boris. Someone who


looks capable of being a leader. And that is a problem. The problem is he


is brand Boris and he makes the cut relation that he is to Sirius and he


will damage Rand Boris and he needs that for the future. It's


interesting that the latest conservative survey, which had put


him ahead as toys of leader, now put him behind Liam Fox. It is Willie


not working. -- choice of leader. For me, one of the most interesting


stories, students back back on freeze reach. Most students support


a ban on people speaking offensively on campuses. What did you make of


this question mark what is going on in our universities? 76% want


speakers who they don't agree with, what they term offensive, they want


them banned. We said earlier, what about Galileo, suggesting the Earth


microbes he would have been banned. All Martin Luther. The whole point


about university is to make everyone think about ideas that they they


find unpalatable and to argue them out and to use rational debate and


discussion to say, I may not agree with you, but this is how I demolish


argument. Also, the whole point about free speech is that you may


hear things that you find offensive, that is somebody else's freedom to


say it. So the idea that the place where somebody goes to expand their


mind becomes a place where nothing offensive can ever be mentioned is


appalling. We need a campaign for real students! I don't mind the fact


they object to a lot of this stuff, but what real students do is to get


the speaker come and then give them a really hard time. Exactly! You


note there may be a picket outside, or someone with a bucket full of


rotten fruit, but that was the point of it. It is not like in our day! It


is this health and safety culture gone mad. Is this the generation


that have been brought up in such a coddled way that they feel that


their human rights are offended if somebody says something that they


don't agree with? It is ready worrying and narrowing. The Times


had a front-page story this week about students at a certain


university being forbidden for throwing mortarboards in the air for


a photograph because they could be injured, but they could pretend to


do so and they would photo shop them in. But isn't that all about what it


looks like and not what it is? That's another thing. The other


story is a school bans whistles as to offensive or aggressive soap


schools can't blow a whistle at the end of break time because pupils


find it scary. The world is a tough place. There is a lack of confidence


in some places, universities don't have confidence that their students


can adapt and deal with this. And students don't seem to have


confidence in themselves. There were people who said Donald Trump, his


views many people disagree with, should not be allowed to come to the


United Kingdom. He could be the president of the United States. It


would be interesting to see who wants to ban him then. You can't


lock yourself in a cupboard with earphones on saying, I can't hear


you, none of this exists. It is pathetic and not grown up. This is a


point where they are meant to be spreading their intellectual wings


and trying to understand things. We are going to end up with the Sunday


Times Magazine. Young attractive educated female and single, she


relents the man drought. Yes, women now outnumber men at British


universities. By the time they graduate, there are 29% more women


than men. This young woman is writing about what that means in


your 20s when there are so many less men who might be the kind of people


that might end up as your long-term partner. It is called assault if --


she has written a very good piece about that, and I think there is a


kind of irony in all these women who have done so well, and now they find


themselves slightly marooned. We call it left on the shelf. This is a


blatant plug because I am editor of the magazine, but it is a really


good piece! So there are no attractive plumbers? Opposite track.


There are fewer male students, beware the alert mortarboards. It is


all the girls faults! It is all gone mad. Thank you, that is it for the




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