12/06/2016 The Papers


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BBC Simon McCoy if you like. I'm giving up! -- you can tweak. I might


need a poncho later, because it is starting to bucket it down here.


Right now on BBC News, time for the papers.


Hello, and welcome to our Sunday morning edition of The Papers.


With me are Josie Cox, reporter for the Wall Street Journal,


and David Wooding, Political Editor for The Sun on Sunday.


Very warm welcome to you both. Let's take you through the front pages as


we have them in so far. The Sun on Sunday leads


on the violence that broke out amongst fans


after England's first game. The Telegraph's front


page has the same story, alongside a picture of the Queen's


90th birthday celebrations. The Mail On Sunday also leads


with the referendum. It has the Archbishop


of Canterbury's announcement that The Observer carries a warning


from David Cameron that a vote to leave the EU could mean an end


to increases in the state pension and ring-fenced spending


levels for the NHS. Well, those are the front pages.


Let's begin. The Sun on Sunday, they kick-off with a front page that has


a picture of a bloodied English fan in Marseille, but also Wayne Rooney


obviously because of the Russian equalising goal to make it 1-1. But


much more seriously, the violence that erupted in Marseille. The Word


second, for the result and the off field antics. -- the word second. It


hones in on the fact that it was after the second goal that the


Russians appeared to be invading the English fans, that is where it all


kicked off after the game. Yet again, a big tournament has been


marred by violence, it is a great shame that the English fans are in


the middle of it. It looks from what we are hearing from people on the


ground that Russian ultras were involved, attacking people with iron


bars, there are some horrific reports. It is a shame that England


are in doubt when we are getting a reputation back on track. The worst


violence involving English fans for the past 20 years. It is an English


problem that many people thought had gone away. It is really sad,


actually, because an event like this has a huge hype around it. It really


is ultimately meant to be a kind of celebration of athleticism, I


suppose, and bringing different countries together and having an


exciting tournament. That is so far from what we are seeing from all


these images. We were saying before we came on air, this is really going


to open up questions about the future of tournaments like this and


how they are going to be held, and also the bidding process is around


tournaments like this, because it has always been seen as a huge


honour, economic and culturally and socially, to host a tournament like


this. But if they are always going to be marred by incidents like this


and violent and all of this sort of bloodshed, I suppose, then host


cities are going to have to think twice about whether they want to


have that risk. It is interesting that all of the build-up talk was of


concern about security in the wake of the Paris terror attacks, that


was seen as the real threat, Terra. But obviously it is the old problem


of hooliganism that has been causing so many problems in Marseille. The


focus has shifted from terror within hours to the fans. The interesting


point is of course that Russia will be staging the World Cup in only two


years' time. There is an important decision for not only Uefa and how


to deal with the Russian Football Association, but also Fifa, do we


want Russia to stage the World Cup? The already question marks about why


they are staging it. The last time there was major trouble at a


tournament was in Warsaw in 2012 when the Russian fans will yet again


involved with the Czech Republic fans in some violence. That would be


a real problem, the Russian hooligans, who obviously pretty


hard-core. The last thing that Fifa needs at the moment is bad press.


One of the issues also is that last night in the game we saw flares and


firecrackers being let off. How did these fans get them into the


stadium, that is what you want to know. For me, the question arises


around how much resources are available. Clearly they are very,


very stretched. You know, there are huge amounts of people, while the


violence might have started with a couple of people getting into a


fight, it seems that everybody is very an edge and everybody is very


twitchy, and I would imagine in a situation like this, violent very


much breeds violence. The reports of Russian fans having gumshield and


knuckle-dusters in the stadium, how did they get them in? I regularly go


to football matches, I get searched and my bag searched and frisked as a


matter of course, why is it not being done the? Let's move the


Sunday Mirror, they have got the same story but a combined front page


that has happy and glorious, happy obviously about the Queen's birthday


celebrations at watching the flight path there, all smiles. And then


those really gruesome scenes from Marseille, happy and glorious. Is


that an effective front page, Josie? There is a marked difference between


what we are soon going on, and today with all the celebrations going on,


and that in contrast with what we saw yesterday and hopefully won't


see again but most likely could over the coming days. So it is just too


much situations. And also promotion we -- two different situations.


There are people who enjoy reading about the Royal Family and football,


sellers in the tabloid world. There is one in one or two papers, you can


see it in the Mirror's paper there, Prince George appearing to salute,


but he might be shielding his eyes from the sun as he looks at the


aeroplanes. And it is baby Charlotte, the Queen's


great-granddaughter's first balcony public appearance. She appears to be


making a little wave there. It is a lovely picture there. The fans, the


hooligans that we can see from in, I don't know whether they are English


fans or Russian fans, it is hard to tell. -- we can see throwing. We


talk about hooligans being a problem. In terms of the English


hooligans, that problem has been controlled partly by the police


confiscating passports of known hooligans before tournaments. But


this time it seems that a number of troublemakers did get over there.


Yes, it is that lethal mix of drink and a few troublemakers in the


crowd. And also a country that is easy to get to, France, so easy to


get to compare to somewhere like Brazil. You have to have sympathy


with the vast majority of the fans, if you are sitting there enjoying


yourself, having a drink before the game, and a chair comes flying


across or a bottle from another group of people intent on causing


trouble, what do you do? Sometimes you run, but with a few drinks


inside of you, sometimes you react the other way. Jamie Vardy's wife


Rebecca turned up, she was having a quiet meal, and got caught up in it,


I'm sure that she is not a hooligan. I think some of the hooligans were


touting that they want to leave the European Union in Marseille, that


read us on to the referendum, not too far away now. We have got the


Sunday Telegraph, they have got yet another warning from the Prime


Minister about Brexit, this time focusing on the threat to pensions


if we leave. It seems that there is another day, another scare story.


This time it is pensions. Also the NHS and also defence, other things


that Cameron is warning could be impacted and cutback in case of


Brexit. For me, this looks like he is targeting a specific audience,


the older voters who care a lot about pensions. In the Telegraph it


says, TV licences, bus passes, that sort of thing... Even your bus pass!


It was in motor. And the other things, defence and the NHS, that is


for a topical -- it was emotive. Defence in the light of the


terrorist threats, we have seen over the last couple of months but it


will be topical. In the light of the junior doctors' strikes, all the


attention that has had over the last couple of months. These are all very


specific and intentionally chosen I think. Pensions as well, over the


last couple of weeks, the story that has been plastered across the front


pages has been the NHS pensions. I think that could very much tap into


the psyche of the public. Very intentional, I think. Dave, it is


like Downing Street is going through a check list of things that could be


affected by a Brexit? I have said that no option is risk-free, if you


stay in the EU, it is going to change and evolve, and if you leave


it could create shock waves. However, the way these two sides are


selling it, if you staying in, you know, you're going to lose your job


and there will be a world war three, played and pestilence. On the other


side, if we stay in, we will have foreign hordes coming in. They are


taking it to an extreme on both sides. The problem is, do the public


really believe most of it? In the general election, you usually get


leaders saying, this will happen after the general election, we will


spend more money on rascals and give an extra tax cut or whatever. Now


the warning -- spend more money on art schools. Now be warning about


how bad it will go. One poll was suggesting a lead for the leave


campaign? There is an element of antagonism, people saying we are not


going to vote to stay just because you are bullying and can join us.


There is a tone of bullying of elderly people in this, they are


doing it on both sides. Dave, you have a piece on the Sun on Sunday


talking about Britain's Armed Forces, according to George Osborne,


facing a wave of cuts if we vote to leave the EU. This adds to what


David Cameron is saying in the Sunday Telegraph from the Observer.


I had a meeting with George Osborne this week in which he says there


will be a 20 to ?40 billion black hole in public finances. One of the


things he thinks he will have to do is to cut or Armed Forces, he named


the figure, ?1.5 billion, new jets will not arrive, we will not have


warships, no new kit, he will have to cut again the personnel. We have


already seen Armed Forces cut by a fifth and 20,000 jobs have gone. Do


we believe this? That is what the Chancellor is saying. He believes


that if we leave he will have to do that. The other side will no doubt


say that it is another scare story, and this is how it goes on. Small


Britain, not Great Britain, is one of the headlines. Let's go on to the


Express. It is interesting, I don't know if there is any truth to it,


they are saying that panic is gripping Downing Street. Going back


to the poll we were talking about that suggested a sizeable lead for


the leave campaign, do you think Downing Street are getting worried


about the way the referendum might go? All we have to go on at the


moment is really the polls and the public sentiment and anecdotal


things that we are hearing. You know, if you are David Cameron then


I'm sure you are getting uneasy and your kind of thinking, you know,


about what can be done in the last two weeks before we go to the polls.


If he weren't concerned, and if there was not this panic in Downing


Street, we wouldn't be getting all the other stories we were talking


about, the warnings about the fence, pensions, NHS and all of that, so


there must be some truth to this. -- defence. Equally, it makes for a


good headline. And it is the Express's lying on the whole thing.


And a lot of us are suffering a little bit from Brexit fatigue --


the Express's line. It is not just the polls in fairness. The two sides


do their own private polling, they are knocking on doors day and night.


What the Labour Party in particular finding is that 70% the core support


are saying they are going to leave. This is because they see David


Cameron, a Conservative, telling them to remain, and they don't like


David Cameron because they are Labour voters. And they haven't seen


very much of Jeremy Corbyn, have they? Absolutely not, and I think


what this story says is that Labour will take the front seat, the


controls of the car, and that the Conservatives sit in the back-seat


for a week or so so that they can address the problem. Immigration is


an issue that affects working class people more than the better off, the


better of use them as the gardeners or cleaners, they are cheap for


them. But the working class are in poor areas, these people coming in


on the jobs that they don't want. We heard Jeremy Corbyn in an interview


yesterday, he was asked on the scale of one to ten about how enthusiastic


he was about the EU, he said 7.5, not incredibly enthusiastic.


Privately, I have discussed it with MPs in Westminster, who believe that


despite what he is saying he will still put his cross in the leave


vote because he has been a supporter of leaving Europe. Who knows if he


will help or make things even worse for the remain campaign. Let's go on


to the Sunday Times. They have got a story about a leaked UK plan to open


the doors to 1 million Turkish citizens, British diplomats secretly


discussing granting visa-free travel to the UK for more than 1 million


Turks, according to leaked diplomatic cables that the Sunday


Times say they have seen. To me, this story sounds quite vague and


theoretical at this point. They say that the UK could consider extending


visa-free travel, the number in question is 1.5 million Turks, but


only to those who are special passport holders. It doesn't really


explain much to tell what that means and who that would encompass. So I


think at this point it is, you know, another spin, yet another spin on


the Brexit story. This is one area that people have been concerned


about, opening the doors of Europe to the 17 million plus population of


Turkey. Hugely, it is very topical, and it will be interesting to see


what happens after due the 23rd and whether this will actually


materialise. Dave, is that a good story in your view? It is a


conjugated story, there are a number of documents from British diplomats


saying that we should give -- complicated story. Turkish diplomats


free travel. This feeds into the Vote Leave argument that Turkey is


about to join the EU, despite reassurances from David Cameron, and


we know that David Cameron wants Turkey to join the EU, which would


extend the EU borders right up to Syria and Iraq. This plays into


that, they are saying that it is a scare story. One side is accusing


the other of a scare story, and it is all about carefully selected


e-mails. Nevertheless, talks have been going on about getting closer


to Turkey. That will play into that story. We have another story in the


Sunday Times about new school rules to let boys work skirts, what's that


all about? I can't say I am an expert on this! It is sweeping


changes. The article says that 80s day schools, including 40 primaries,


have introduced gender neutral uniforms -- 80 schools. Girls can


wear trousers if they don't want to wear skirts. It is a sweeping


change. I off the top of my head, what proportion of LGBT kids in


schools is these days. I don't know whether sweeping changes like this


are really necessary, and whether it can't be addressed on a case-by-case


basis. I definitely think you obviously have two admit open and


tolerant -- you have to be open and tolerant about issues like this, if


boys want to wear skirts in should be fine. Whether such sweeping


changes are needed, or can it not be addressed on a day by day basis.


Dave, do you have a view on gender neutral policy? The problem with


this is, if anybody has had children will know, if you try to tell a boy


that he is not a boy or a girl that is not a girl, there will be a


number of rare cases where children are confused about their identity.


If you say to a little boy, you can't play with guns, they will find


something, and implement to pretend it is a gun. It is trying to make


your goal to behave more like a boy, she will still put her mum's high


heels on and pick up a handbag and go round the house. That is just the


way kids. Lovely thought. Thank you both of you for being with us. Thank


you so much. Just a reminder, we take a look


at tomorrow's front pages every evening at 10:30pm and 11:30pm


here on BBC News.


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