12/06/2016 The Papers

BBC Simon McCoy if you like. I'm giving up! -- you can tweak. I might

need a poncho later, because it is starting to bucket it down here.

Right now on BBC News, time for the papers.

Hello, and welcome to our Sunday morning edition of The Papers.

With me are Josie Cox, reporter for the Wall Street Journal,

and David Wooding, Political Editor for The Sun on Sunday.

Very warm welcome to you both. Let's take you through the front pages as

we have them in so far. The Sun on Sunday leads

on the violence that broke out amongst fans

after England's first game. The Telegraph's front

page has the same story, alongside a picture of the Queen's

90th birthday celebrations. The Mail On Sunday also leads

with the referendum. It has the Archbishop

of Canterbury's announcement that The Observer carries a warning

from David Cameron that a vote to leave the EU could mean an end

to increases in the state pension and ring-fenced spending

levels for the NHS. Well, those are the front pages.

Let's begin. The Sun on Sunday, they kick-off with a front page that has

a picture of a bloodied English fan in Marseille, but also Wayne Rooney

obviously because of the Russian equalising goal to make it 1-1. But

much more seriously, the violence that erupted in Marseille. The Word

second, for the result and the off field antics. -- the word second. It

hones in on the fact that it was after the second goal that the

Russians appeared to be invading the English fans, that is where it all

kicked off after the game. Yet again, a big tournament has been

marred by violence, it is a great shame that the English fans are in

the middle of it. It looks from what we are hearing from people on the

ground that Russian ultras were involved, attacking people with iron

bars, there are some horrific reports. It is a shame that England

are in doubt when we are getting a reputation back on track. The worst

violence involving English fans for the past 20 years. It is an English

problem that many people thought had gone away. It is really sad,

actually, because an event like this has a huge hype around it. It really

is ultimately meant to be a kind of celebration of athleticism, I

suppose, and bringing different countries together and having an

exciting tournament. That is so far from what we are seeing from all

these images. We were saying before we came on air, this is really going

to open up questions about the future of tournaments like this and

how they are going to be held, and also the bidding process is around

tournaments like this, because it has always been seen as a huge

honour, economic and culturally and socially, to host a tournament like

this. But if they are always going to be marred by incidents like this

and violent and all of this sort of bloodshed, I suppose, then host

cities are going to have to think twice about whether they want to

have that risk. It is interesting that all of the build-up talk was of

concern about security in the wake of the Paris terror attacks, that

was seen as the real threat, Terra. But obviously it is the old problem

of hooliganism that has been causing so many problems in Marseille. The

focus has shifted from terror within hours to the fans. The interesting

point is of course that Russia will be staging the World Cup in only two

years' time. There is an important decision for not only Uefa and how

to deal with the Russian Football Association, but also Fifa, do we

want Russia to stage the World Cup? The already question marks about why

they are staging it. The last time there was major trouble at a

tournament was in Warsaw in 2012 when the Russian fans will yet again

involved with the Czech Republic fans in some violence. That would be

a real problem, the Russian hooligans, who obviously pretty

hard-core. The last thing that Fifa needs at the moment is bad press.

One of the issues also is that last night in the game we saw flares and

firecrackers being let off. How did these fans get them into the

stadium, that is what you want to know. For me, the question arises

around how much resources are available. Clearly they are very,

very stretched. You know, there are huge amounts of people, while the

violence might have started with a couple of people getting into a

fight, it seems that everybody is very an edge and everybody is very

twitchy, and I would imagine in a situation like this, violent very

much breeds violence. The reports of Russian fans having gumshield and

knuckle-dusters in the stadium, how did they get them in? I regularly go

to football matches, I get searched and my bag searched and frisked as a

matter of course, why is it not being done the? Let's move the

Sunday Mirror, they have got the same story but a combined front page

that has happy and glorious, happy obviously about the Queen's birthday

celebrations at watching the flight path there, all smiles. And then

those really gruesome scenes from Marseille, happy and glorious. Is

that an effective front page, Josie? There is a marked difference between

what we are soon going on, and today with all the celebrations going on,

and that in contrast with what we saw yesterday and hopefully won't

see again but most likely could over the coming days. So it is just too

much situations. And also promotion we -- two different situations.

There are people who enjoy reading about the Royal Family and football,

sellers in the tabloid world. There is one in one or two papers, you can

see it in the Mirror's paper there, Prince George appearing to salute,

but he might be shielding his eyes from the sun as he looks at the

aeroplanes. And it is baby Charlotte, the Queen's

great-granddaughter's first balcony public appearance. She appears to be

making a little wave there. It is a lovely picture there. The fans, the

hooligans that we can see from in, I don't know whether they are English

fans or Russian fans, it is hard to tell. -- we can see throwing. We

talk about hooligans being a problem. In terms of the English

hooligans, that problem has been controlled partly by the police

confiscating passports of known hooligans before tournaments. But

this time it seems that a number of troublemakers did get over there.

Yes, it is that lethal mix of drink and a few troublemakers in the

crowd. And also a country that is easy to get to, France, so easy to

get to compare to somewhere like Brazil. You have to have sympathy

with the vast majority of the fans, if you are sitting there enjoying

yourself, having a drink before the game, and a chair comes flying

across or a bottle from another group of people intent on causing

trouble, what do you do? Sometimes you run, but with a few drinks

inside of you, sometimes you react the other way. Jamie Vardy's wife

Rebecca turned up, she was having a quiet meal, and got caught up in it,

I'm sure that she is not a hooligan. I think some of the hooligans were

touting that they want to leave the European Union in Marseille, that

read us on to the referendum, not too far away now. We have got the

Sunday Telegraph, they have got yet another warning from the Prime

Minister about Brexit, this time focusing on the threat to pensions

if we leave. It seems that there is another day, another scare story.

This time it is pensions. Also the NHS and also defence, other things

that Cameron is warning could be impacted and cutback in case of

Brexit. For me, this looks like he is targeting a specific audience,

the older voters who care a lot about pensions. In the Telegraph it

says, TV licences, bus passes, that sort of thing... Even your bus pass!

It was in motor. And the other things, defence and the NHS, that is

for a topical -- it was emotive. Defence in the light of the

terrorist threats, we have seen over the last couple of months but it

will be topical. In the light of the junior doctors' strikes, all the

attention that has had over the last couple of months. These are all very

specific and intentionally chosen I think. Pensions as well, over the

last couple of weeks, the story that has been plastered across the front

pages has been the NHS pensions. I think that could very much tap into

the psyche of the public. Very intentional, I think. Dave, it is

like Downing Street is going through a check list of things that could be

affected by a Brexit? I have said that no option is risk-free, if you

stay in the EU, it is going to change and evolve, and if you leave

it could create shock waves. However, the way these two sides are

selling it, if you staying in, you know, you're going to lose your job

and there will be a world war three, played and pestilence. On the other

side, if we stay in, we will have foreign hordes coming in. They are

taking it to an extreme on both sides. The problem is, do the public

really believe most of it? In the general election, you usually get

leaders saying, this will happen after the general election, we will

spend more money on rascals and give an extra tax cut or whatever. Now

the warning -- spend more money on art schools. Now be warning about

how bad it will go. One poll was suggesting a lead for the leave

campaign? There is an element of antagonism, people saying we are not

going to vote to stay just because you are bullying and can join us.

There is a tone of bullying of elderly people in this, they are

doing it on both sides. Dave, you have a piece on the Sun on Sunday

talking about Britain's Armed Forces, according to George Osborne,

facing a wave of cuts if we vote to leave the EU. This adds to what

David Cameron is saying in the Sunday Telegraph from the Observer.

I had a meeting with George Osborne this week in which he says there

will be a 20 to ?40 billion black hole in public finances. One of the

things he thinks he will have to do is to cut or Armed Forces, he named

the figure, ?1.5 billion, new jets will not arrive, we will not have

warships, no new kit, he will have to cut again the personnel. We have

already seen Armed Forces cut by a fifth and 20,000 jobs have gone. Do

we believe this? That is what the Chancellor is saying. He believes

that if we leave he will have to do that. The other side will no doubt

say that it is another scare story, and this is how it goes on. Small

Britain, not Great Britain, is one of the headlines. Let's go on to the

Express. It is interesting, I don't know if there is any truth to it,

they are saying that panic is gripping Downing Street. Going back

to the poll we were talking about that suggested a sizeable lead for

the leave campaign, do you think Downing Street are getting worried

about the way the referendum might go? All we have to go on at the

moment is really the polls and the public sentiment and anecdotal

things that we are hearing. You know, if you are David Cameron then

I'm sure you are getting uneasy and your kind of thinking, you know,

about what can be done in the last two weeks before we go to the polls.

If he weren't concerned, and if there was not this panic in Downing

Street, we wouldn't be getting all the other stories we were talking

about, the warnings about the fence, pensions, NHS and all of that, so

there must be some truth to this. -- defence. Equally, it makes for a

good headline. And it is the Express's lying on the whole thing.

And a lot of us are suffering a little bit from Brexit fatigue --

the Express's line. It is not just the polls in fairness. The two sides

do their own private polling, they are knocking on doors day and night.

What the Labour Party in particular finding is that 70% the core support

are saying they are going to leave. This is because they see David

Cameron, a Conservative, telling them to remain, and they don't like

David Cameron because they are Labour voters. And they haven't seen

very much of Jeremy Corbyn, have they? Absolutely not, and I think

what this story says is that Labour will take the front seat, the

controls of the car, and that the Conservatives sit in the back-seat

for a week or so so that they can address the problem. Immigration is

an issue that affects working class people more than the better off, the

better of use them as the gardeners or cleaners, they are cheap for

them. But the working class are in poor areas, these people coming in

on the jobs that they don't want. We heard Jeremy Corbyn in an interview

yesterday, he was asked on the scale of one to ten about how enthusiastic

he was about the EU, he said 7.5, not incredibly enthusiastic.

Privately, I have discussed it with MPs in Westminster, who believe that

despite what he is saying he will still put his cross in the leave

vote because he has been a supporter of leaving Europe. Who knows if he

will help or make things even worse for the remain campaign. Let's go on

to the Sunday Times. They have got a story about a leaked UK plan to open

the doors to 1 million Turkish citizens, British diplomats secretly

discussing granting visa-free travel to the UK for more than 1 million

Turks, according to leaked diplomatic cables that the Sunday

Times say they have seen. To me, this story sounds quite vague and

theoretical at this point. They say that the UK could consider extending

visa-free travel, the number in question is 1.5 million Turks, but

only to those who are special passport holders. It doesn't really

explain much to tell what that means and who that would encompass. So I

think at this point it is, you know, another spin, yet another spin on

the Brexit story. This is one area that people have been concerned

about, opening the doors of Europe to the 17 million plus population of

Turkey. Hugely, it is very topical, and it will be interesting to see

what happens after due the 23rd and whether this will actually

materialise. Dave, is that a good story in your view? It is a

conjugated story, there are a number of documents from British diplomats

saying that we should give -- complicated story. Turkish diplomats

free travel. This feeds into the Vote Leave argument that Turkey is

about to join the EU, despite reassurances from David Cameron, and

we know that David Cameron wants Turkey to join the EU, which would

extend the EU borders right up to Syria and Iraq. This plays into

that, they are saying that it is a scare story. One side is accusing

the other of a scare story, and it is all about carefully selected

e-mails. Nevertheless, talks have been going on about getting closer

to Turkey. That will play into that story. We have another story in the

Sunday Times about new school rules to let boys work skirts, what's that

all about? I can't say I am an expert on this! It is sweeping

changes. The article says that 80s day schools, including 40 primaries,

have introduced gender neutral uniforms -- 80 schools. Girls can

wear trousers if they don't want to wear skirts. It is a sweeping

change. I off the top of my head, what proportion of LGBT kids in

schools is these days. I don't know whether sweeping changes like this

are really necessary, and whether it can't be addressed on a case-by-case

basis. I definitely think you obviously have two admit open and

tolerant -- you have to be open and tolerant about issues like this, if

boys want to wear skirts in should be fine. Whether such sweeping

changes are needed, or can it not be addressed on a day by day basis.

Dave, do you have a view on gender neutral policy? The problem with

this is, if anybody has had children will know, if you try to tell a boy

that he is not a boy or a girl that is not a girl, there will be a

number of rare cases where children are confused about their identity.

If you say to a little boy, you can't play with guns, they will find

something, and implement to pretend it is a gun. It is trying to make

your goal to behave more like a boy, she will still put her mum's high

heels on and pick up a handbag and go round the house. That is just the

way kids. Lovely thought. Thank you both of you for being with us. Thank

you so much. Just a reminder, we take a look

at tomorrow's front pages every evening at 10:30pm and 11:30pm

here on BBC News.