24/06/2016 The Papers


No need to wait until tomorrow morning to see what's in the papers - BBC News presents a lively and informed conversation about the next day's headlines.

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Hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the papers will be


With me here in the studio is Toby Young, Associate Editor


for The Spectator, and political commentator, Jo Philips.


And joining us from Edinburgh is David Torrance


Tomorrow's front pages, starting with


The Daily Mail front page celebrates the Leave vote -


their picture has jubilant crowds and the headline "Take a bow


The Express has more on the resignation of David Cameron


and names Boris Johnson as the favourite to take over


The Times describes today's events as a "Brexit Earthquake."


It also features a picture of David Cameron and his wife


The Telegraph describes yesterday's vote as the "Birth


It says Boris Johnson and Michael Gove are preparing a bid


to take control of the Conservative party.


The Guardian simply says: "Over and Out" as it wraps up key events


from today's decision to leave the EU.


The Daily Mirror has a picture of an anguished looking


Samantha Cameron as she watches her husband resign -


asking 'So what the hell happens now?


The Sun focusses on the career of David Cameron and why he has


And the Scottish Daily Mail has the headline: "Disunited Kingdom."


It says the result of today's referendum has torn Britain apart.


Last night, about ten o'clock, Nigel Farage called it for Remain. When we


you convinced? The first indication that the exit poll and Ipsos MORI


were wrong was the result from Sunderland. Also the result from


Newcastle where Remain on but not by the margin expected. Brexit


earthquake, the Prime Minister announces his resignation. David, I


want to come to the idea of a second Independent referendum later but the


fact is, the UK is massively divided and Scotland already looks like


another country? Yes, this is part of an ongoing process. I have


covered this for the past few years. It doesn't feel like another country


and you cannot argue with the differential vote like that.


Scotland voted overwhelmingly for Remain although 40% did back Leave.


The other two quarters of the country, south, voted decisively for


the Mac that I say decisively but it was quite narrow. -- Leave. It makes


it question opinion polls again and again? Yes, I remember talking not


so many days ago about the pressure on the pollsters because they got it


so wrong. Even the private polling that hedge funds and investment were


doing was still not accurate because we saw that great surge yesterday on


the money market which tumbled overnight and then came back.


Clearly, they were banking on Remain, just by a whisker. There


will be questions about the polling but I still think many people went


to the polling booth and actually had not made up their mind until


they got there and any conversation any of us have had, and it is


fantastic that it has energised people talking about politics on


something about such huge importance for generations to come but there


were people wobbling to the very end. The Daily Mail, take a bow


Britain. It was a day the quiet people rose above an elite. It goes


on to talk about the tumultuous defence of our time. Given that this


has divided people so deeply, now is the time to try to bring everybody


together but how do we do that? Precisely. As Peter Hensley said


Hurley today, the constitutional historian, it is about resetting the


dials and there is a great chance here, actually, for the reshaping of


British politics. It is absolutely ridiculous that the male talks about


the quiet people of Britain rising up against an arrogant elite class


and mangoes on page after page praising Michael Gove and Boris


Johnson who are part of that political class. It is clear, after


nonsense but what I think is needed is a lot less of these jingoistic


celebration and a lot of sensible calm and what happens next, it is


about negotiations. What is the plan? It is true that Michael Gove


and Boris Johnson are members of the political class but it is also true


that they managed to harness a popular revolt against the


establishment and one of the reason Remain did not do better is because


David Cameron made no attempt to try and dress up the Remain campaign as


anything other than the establishment defending the status


quo. He made a mistake by lining up the IMF, the Treasury, the president


of the US but make it enabled Boris and Michael to whip up popular


resentment and it is not just a phenomenon confined to Britain, use


it across America and Europe as well. How much of the winners been


able to celebrate given the fact that immediately Nigel Farage was


asked when does the NHS get the money, when does immigration get


code and the answer is our, not yet or maybe not ever. Nigel Farage was


not part of the official campaign. He is not an MP. We are not about to


find ourselves in Nigel Farage's Britain... But a lot of people will


actually say that Nigel Farage has dominated. He is the person that has


energised and that if it was not for him we would never have had a


referendum. Scotland went through this with a close vote with the


independence referendum, arguably Scotland was very divided. How


deeply have those divisions remained over the last few months? There are


two rising cases. People will tell you it was very divisive and nasty


those on the losing side would tell you it was a festival of democracy


and uplifting. The truth is somewhere in between. Both accounts


are caricatures. In a polarised referendum, which is essentially


about existential question of who you are, your identity and the


future of the country. Of course, it is game to be divisive. There was no


room for nuance or middle way. My overwhelming sense was deja vu. The


legitimisation of experts and the media and fax was all horribly


familiar but they were good signs as well. The turnout was high. Not as I


as it was a few years ago in Scotland but previously it was a


much more salient issue but anything that engages the proportion of the


election... The other thing that came out of the Scottish referendum


is this rejuvenation with new leaders. We saw the demise of Murphy


but look at Davidson coming out as a new superstar. It is quite striking


that the two most impressive operators in the British Isles are


Davidson and the First Minister Nicola Sturgeon. Cast your mind back


to 1999 when the experiment was first embarked upon. It was said


that Scottish politicians will no longer have a place in the UK stage


that turned out to be far from the truth or stop although it looks very


different now, we have a very high profile figure. The Daily Express


and The Sun, we are out of the EU. The Express comes to us pretty early


on. Boris as next piano. We do not know. And we can gloss over the


David Cameron story. Why should he hang around? Given that he does not


believe in Britain's withdrawal from the EU and given that there is going


to be a lot of hard work to be done to work out what the new settlement


is, what the new relationship is with the EU, it is understandable he


did not want to do that. But he is the one who is responsible for


bringing the referendum in the first place. He did not need to. He could


have said, I hear to govern. He may not have won the election if he had


not agreed to hold the referendum. What of the ways the story is


reported is slightly jumping the gun. The headline, we are out of the


EU. Everywhere it has been reported as a foregone conclusion. That has


been the will of British people but it is much will likely I think that


the leaders of the European Union will now come back and make a


different offer, some form of associate membership which is


probably what David Cameron should have gone for. Surely, if that is


the case, people who voted to get out, will say that is not what we


voted for. As of yet, Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty has not been


evoked. It is not have to be triggered for ages and ages. We are


ready had various European leaders are saying, you decided to go so go


and you can understand that they want to do it and you can also


understand the thinking behind the opinion in other European countries,


as we have seen by the congratulations by Le Pen and other


right wing parties to sway other right wig nations to do the same. Of


course they want negotiations quite quickly because there are also


elections coming up in Spain, Holland and France next year but


this is about who is going to negotiate. Clearly, David Cameron


who has a ready said long before this, that he would step down before


the end of this Parliament cannot be in a position to negotiate and it is


a two-year minimum deal if we use Article 50. There is an article in


the FT which talks about whether Scotland or even Northern Ireland


could do what Denmark has done an it stayed in their EU but parts of his


kingdom, Greenland, decided to leave. The Fera Islands as well.


That is in a similar situation. The point to make is the European Union


is a highly flexible political organisation and even if we set


out... And the truth is, I am old enough to remember German


reunification, it was dealt with in a matter of months. A newly expanded


Germany. I think they called it internal enlargement. I think, the


First Minister spoke about this this morning, she is going to engage


directly with Russell and she will seek what the mood is there and how


willing they are to be flexible in their approach to the bits of the


UK, and it might even include London...


The Mirror says, what happens now? Day one of Brexit Britain. The pound


fell sharply, but then there was a rally and be saw a huge amount wiped


off shares and the losses were catastrophic, we were told. Some


people who voted for Leave were surprised that this had happened,


then they said, if I had known that this was going to happen and my vote


would actually count it would have voted to Remain. How many have some


people being? I think taking back your democratic rights does take


courage because there are always risks involved. Sometimes, the


following day, when you become more aware of what those risks are, you


get a bit of buyers' remorse. The FTSE 100 did finish 2% up on the


week. But what is the plan? I heard Brexit campaigners saying that what


we need to do is gather round are some experts, business leaders and


lawyers. But a lot of people were saying, the reason I voted to leave


is because I am sick of hearing from experts. The plan, as Boris set out


in his original column in the Daily Telegraph in which he declared that


he would be campaigning for Leave, was to try and get the British


public to reject the EU in the hope that the EU would then come back


with an offer not just for us but for everyone. I think the reason why


that would fly is because the result was so close and you can't have an


outcome which just favours one side. It has got to be a compromise. It


was so close. I don't think that Nicola Sturgeon is going to trigger


a second referendum before she knows what the final agreement between


Britain and the EU would need. Wouldn't that be sensible? Of


course, what it is high stakes. It would be high stakes. Extremely high


stakes. And it would be sensible, to go back to your analogy, there


should be a cooling off period. It is frightening. Did you want to take


out the extra warranty? Not at that price! In actual fact there will be


people who don't realise what they voted for, which doesn't mean they


are stupid or ignorant, it just means in the noise over the past few


weeks of people shouting and it has been a very badtempered claim, it's


a -- campaign, it is amazing so many people turned out to vote. But they


do often count on people not turning up. Now there needs to be a bit of


time and reflection with precisely that, but does Europe want us to


stay that badly? Do they want Jeremy Corbyn or Boris Johnson as a Prime


Minister? Unless they come up with a 2-tiered system EU is destined to


collapse as there is no appetite among the public of so many European


countries to be part of a united Europe. Page six and seven of the


Mail. It talks about who the runners and riders are, the people who may


or may not want to throw the hat in the ring. How is this looked upon?


We know the Conservatives in Westminster elections don't do well.


Who is the money on up there? Because Jeremy Corbyn isn't


necessarily looking particularly safe, easy? This again highlights


the growing distance between Scotland and England. Ruth Davidson


a few days ago was having a very effective pop at Boris Johnson at


Wembley Stadium, so I think that is one to watch. Does she declare


independence effectively from the UK Conservative party, if Boris


Johnson, who she clearly doesn't like, becomes leader? And Scottish


Labour has already been making noises about becoming even more


autonomous from the UK party. But it simply doesn't matter who becomes


the next leader of the Conservative party or the Labour Party. The


direction of travel in Scotland seems absolutely clear and that's


not, as some viewers would know, a partisan point on my part, it is


just how it feels. The Daily Record says many are backing a second


referendum. Which we will come to! But it just doesn't matter who the


next leader is. Does it matter? It might matter for the Scots if it was


Michael Gove, because he is a Scot. That's complicated the! It is not


fantasy that he is a Scot. It's a fantasy that it makes any idea --


any difference. The fact that Boris Johnson has been identified as the


bookies' favourite, at one point you could have been 9:1 against Leave


winning last night. But the Conservative party, and we talk


about divisions, the Conservative party again was with the part by


Europe. Exactly. Let's rewind to three or four minutes ago when we


were talking about the sensible option of having a second referendum


on the sensible associated membership. You are then going to


have the same anguish in the Conservative party about whether you


would vote for that. I think actually whoever leaves the


Conservative Party or whoever leads the country needs to heal this


hideous rift. -- leads the Conservative Party. As promised a


want to talk quickly about the disunited kingdom. The Scottish


version of The Daily Mail. I mean, what is it necessary for us to do


this today? We know that we should be thinking about it, was she under


a lot of pressure to start talking about the second referendum? Yes,


there is certainly pressure within the party. Some in the party are


very impatient for a second referendum. Alex Salmond is one of


them. Nicola Sturgeon is seen as a more cautious figure, but this


morning she went much further than certainly I expected and many other


observers, although there were a lot of caveats. It isn't going to happen


soon. I think what she will do is take that timeframe, the formal


notification withdrawal wouldn't be made for some time. There's at least


two years after that to play with. I think what the Nicola Sturgeon plan


is, this is just conjecture and I often get these things wrong, is


that she will aim for another independence referendum shortly


before the formal point of withdrawal with the UK and the


timing will be such that it allows Scotland, if independence is


sanctioned in-out referendum, to remain a continuing member of the


European Union. I have to emphasise the idea that any of that is


straightforward or easy is not the case and indeed the First Minister


made that point this morning. I think she will find it quite


difficult to do that. For one reason, the Prime Minister announced


today that she would be involved in the negotiation process. That makes


it easier. She has a direct involvement in the process. But it


makes it harder if she sanctions the final settlement, he then urged the


Scottish people to reject it. Another reason she will find it


difficult to call a second referendum is if the voice was


between the United Kingdom which has a new and better relationship with


the EU, or at the Scotland becoming independent and joining the EU, it


would be like a choice between being part of a democratic union and being


part of an undemocratic union. A democratic union with a hereditary


head of state. Let us quickly... Does a couple of minutes. This


French newspaper, good luck, it says, with a picture of Boris


hanging from a zip wire. It says... Stunned? Paralysed, actually. Many


questions. Yes. The countries in the EU after victory, led by Boris


Johnson. You could argue whether this is tongue in cheek. Woodlark, a


man on a zip wire? -- good luck. Better Boris Johnson that Marine Le


Pen. Yes. They are cheering this. One comment from each of you.


Somebody reading the news. Good evening. Aliens didn't land on Earth


and Elvis wasn't found alive. But everything else happened. It has


been monumentally surprising for some people, hasn't it? Yes. To


clinch it all, Donald Trump was in Scotland today, he arrived this


morning, seemingly unaware of the fact that different parts of the UK


voted differently. We didn't have aliens or Elvis, but we had Donald


Trump. I think it has been astonishing. It is nothing like a


general election that any of us have covered. As Dale --a staggering day.


One of the peculiarities to add to the Donald Trump thing is the sequel


to Independence Day came out tomorrow.


Thank you, Toby Young, Jo Philips and David Torrance.


I know you are all rather tired. We appreciate you being here.


We should all see a bit of sunshine at times this coming weekend. Still


some rain in the mix. We had that mixed during Friday as well. Some


areas, just say whether Cumulus


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