02/10/2016 The Papers


02/10/2016

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away from winning the Malaysian Grand Prix. That is all the sport

:00:00.:00:00.

for now. Now on BBC News here's

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Gavin Esler with The Papers. Hello and welcome to our Sunday

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morning edition of The Papers. With me are Ben Chu

:00:15.:00:17.

of the Independent and Eleanor Mills has fired the Brexit starting gun,

:00:18.:00:19.

saying she'll launch a Great Repeal Bill in the spring,

:00:20.:00:29.

scrapping the law that took Britain Brexit also leads the Telegraph -

:00:30.:00:32.

the headline reads May Takes The Axe It also has an interview

:00:33.:00:39.

with Samantha Jefferies, the widow of a Falklands hero,

:00:40.:00:42.

who this week won a High Court Brexit also leads the Observer,

:00:43.:00:45.

with claims from former Education Secretary Nicky Morgan

:00:46.:00:51.

that the UK turning its back on the single market

:00:52.:00:53.

and closing its borders risks The Express also has

:00:54.:00:55.

that story, proclaiming The Mail on Sunday has a story

:00:56.:01:01.

featuring the claims of comedian Jon Holmes,

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who says he was sacked from his Radio 4 programme The Now Show

:01:08.:01:09.

for being "white and male." The BBC says it was creating

:01:10.:01:13.

opportunities for more Let's begin with the splash on Me

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firing the Brexit starting gun, the Great Repeal Bill to scrap EU

:01:33.:01:36.

membership. This is the first time we are getting a sense of what to

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race in -- Theresa May means when she says Brexit means Brexit. She

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says this will be a vote under this new bill to repeal all the former

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legislation meaning EU rules were sovereign over British law, which

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has been hailed in many papers as a great start. Given how very slim

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majority in parliament, only 12, it would be interesting to see how that

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vote goes down and whether MPs really do abide by the referendum,

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or whether they go more on their own gut. As we know, in Parliament,

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Brexit was not popular. I think it is interesting, and the other thing

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that comes out of the interview today and stories on the other

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papers is the widening sense between a hard Brexit under soft Brexit. Had

:02:25.:02:29.

Brexit being pulling out of the EU quickly, invoking Article 50, then

:02:30.:02:37.

maybe going back to World Trade Organisation tariffs and not trying

:02:38.:02:43.

to have a proper deal allowing us passports to the city so they can go

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on training. It is a much more hard sense that this is all over. Or a

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soft one which is more of the status quo, which more centrist people in

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the Tory party preferred. She is hoping, I think, as she goes into

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the party conference this week, the this will put a dampener on Brexit.

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I think it is like chucking a grenade into a tank of petrol, they

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will go crazy about what this means. I think it is a cracking story, but

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it raises so many other questions, she has a majority of 12 in

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Parliament, we know the Conservatives are as divided as the

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Labour Party on this issue they are particularly divided, and she might

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not win a vote. We have the supremacy of Parliament after a

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referendum which the British people made it clear what they think. I

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think this is more of the media management announcement than

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anything substantive. There was a great comment on Twitter this

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morning saying this is the legislative equivalent of the phrase

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Brexit means Brexit. It sounds dramatic but the content is not

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there. Why would the UK keep this bill in place after Brexit? Of

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course it wouldn't, but it doesn't tell us anything about the single

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market access, it tells us nothing about the customs union,

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contributions to the EU budget, migration, all these key issues

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people want to know the answers to are not covered by this Great Repeal

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Bill, so Great Repeal Bill obviously sounds dramatic but there is no

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content. But it's very clever, isn't it? She has skirted over this whole

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business when the big fight in the Tory party is between hard and soft

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Brexit. We will move on in a moment to Nicky Morgan's story in the

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Observer where she says she is calling for what she calls a soft

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Brexit. They have set up a new group called Conservative Mainstream, the

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more Remain end of the Tory party trying to say we should have the

:04:51.:04:53.

same relationship that we do with the EU. That's go on to that now.

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The Observer says had Brexit will mean new bigotry according to Nicky

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Morgan. She fears "Trump like attitudes", we risk losing the

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centre ground which Theresa May is trying to capture, and Theresa May

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has been speaking on the Andrew Marr Showed saying she will trigger

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Article 50 and begin the formal process of leaving the EU before the

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end of March next year, so we have at least the beginning of a

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timetable, but she still has the problem, and this has brought down

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Tory leaders in the past. Article 50 of March confirms what everyone

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suspected. Boris Johnson said something similar. He was slapped

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down so it is not exactly news. You are right in terms of the two wings

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of the Conservative Party sniping at each other now. Yes. Nicky Morgan is

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saying this morning something which is direct against people like Liam

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Fox, Iain Duncan Smith, David Davis, saying if you dally with hard Brexit

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it is dangerous, not just because of the economic impact but social-

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political impact. If you have the hard right saying we can do all

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these things and not cooperate with Europe, it is like Trump's view of

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the world, that you need not cooperate, you just assert yourself

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and don't need to consider others in your mind. That is an interesting

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attack because it is different to the usual economic critique we have

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had before now. It sounds very high-minded but this may be sour

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breaks, Nicky Morgan was at the ceremoniously tacked on Macs sacked

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by Theresa May -- may be sour grapes. It is the second time she

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has had a pop at her since she was relegated. She had a go about

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grammar schools and now says she is for soft Brexit. There is definitely

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animosity between these ladies. What is interesting in the Sunday Times

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interview with Theresa May is how she is positioning herself on the

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centre ground. It is about social mobility agenda, saying I made it

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because I was talented, selective education but not a privileged toff

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like Cameron and his like, and she is campaigning on behalf of people

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she says had just managing. She says, we need to think about people

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for whom on the surface it seems OK but life is difficult, they are

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still struggling. That is really putting her tanks on the centre

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ground where the Labour Party should be, but of posts do it mac Kos

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Corbyn has taken them so far into the crazy left-wing wilderness that

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there is a huge open goal for the Tories, and she is quite right wing

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but sitting on it because she wants to win. This may be the biggest

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story of the next two or three years. Very interesting. And the

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irrelevance of the Labour Party in all this discussion, it you are

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talking about a fight between the wings of the Tory party, Labour is

:07:47.:07:51.

out of the discussions. Let's move on to the more cheerful subject of

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American politics! Janet Daley in the Telegraph saying she understands

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why Americans will vote for a dangerously ignorant demagogue.

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Quite a few conservatives are very worried about the prospect of a

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Trump presidency on both sides of the Atlantic. And rightly so! Her

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column ends up by saying people hate Hillary more than they are offended

:08:19.:08:26.

by Trump, which is probably true. Or true to some extent. But, I mean,

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Trump is such a peculiar thing it is difficult to say where he fits in

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the history of American politics. It is an insurgent thing and we don't

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know where it will end. I am interested in the New York Times

:08:44.:08:46.

revelations about his tax affairs, because they have evidence that he

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had a stonking great loss on his businesses in the mid-90s, which

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they think maybe the reason why he was able not to pay income tax for

:08:56.:09:02.

18 years, because even offset losses against profits going forward. That

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goes to the heart... You may be right that he is unique but he

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claims to have done it himself of the great businessman and so on, and

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he isn't. That is the point of Janet baby's column, she is saying what is

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hard for those in the UK to understand, and I think it is true,

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having been in America when they were talking about the health Bill

:09:25.:09:29.

and people talking about how awful it is that people might have

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insurance to give them health care, from a British perspective it is

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bonkers, but there is this individualistic, I made it myself,

:09:38.:09:41.

section of American politics, this puritanical, I did it my way... They

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think Trump stands for that. And he inherited his wealth. Exactly, he

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doesn't stand for the little man although that is how he is

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positioning himself. You could say Hillary is the presidential

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candidate because she was married to Bill Clinton and from that things

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follow, so you have two candidates neither of whom can claim they did

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it alone. Many people in America say they can't stand either but they

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have a Hobson's choice. For a lot of Americans who believe in this self

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actualisation as the defining freedom of the American way, they

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can't bear it, they see Clinton as a socialist who wants to even everyone

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up, and it stops Americans being able to do it their way. It is hard

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for us to get our heads around it but there is a strong thought like

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that in America. Two countries divided by a common language! I

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think this is also a cracking story, and other in the Sunday Times, Lord

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Bell ran a $540 million covert operation in Iraq for the Pentagon.

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How well did that persuade the Iraqi people? To explain to our viewers

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what this means, this is the American government giving $540

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million to a British PR firm to run psychological operations, things

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like putting lines into soap opera plots in the Arabic media, saying, I

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hang out with the Americans, or I stopped being a jihadi and now my

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life is great. It is that kind of propaganda, we are talking about

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propaganda. They should put them in the Archers, that is the answer! It

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doesn't seem to have worked. We all know about psychological operations,

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but it is interesting that this was so privatised. Everything in Iraq

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was privatised, security, catering for troops etc, but is interesting

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they gave it to a British company, and they reckon they made ?15

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million in fees, a lot went to distributing leaflets and probably

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paying scriptwriters or whatever, but it is a fascinating window into

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this world. Fascinating, isn't it? It is, but as you say, talk about

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money badly spent! How much worse could it have been if they haven't

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done this deep psychological manipulation. It may be made things

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worse, it was so crude! Our last story of the day, the Mail on

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Sunday, BBC sacked me for being a white man, I am not speaking

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personally as far as I know! Radio for comic told he was the wrong and

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colour, even the former diversity boss says it is unfair, John Holmes

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sacked from radio fours. As the chair of Women in journalism I bang

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the drum for diversity a lot and it is true that the airwaves are often

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filled with what could be called stale pale males. I am usually in

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favour of diversity, but I think he is great on And Now Show, it is

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funny, and you need a balance on these things. People think there is

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positive discrimination so people only get jobs because they are a

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woman or from an ethnic minority. That is hopeless, it is bad for

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everybody. People than think you are not as good. Or there is a token.

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There are many extremely talented women and people of colour out there

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who could get these jobs but because the way society works, it tends to

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privilege people who have fitted a prior mould. There are more white

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chaps at the top than other people, and we do need to do something about

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that. In FTSE 100 companies if you left it as it was, or politics, it

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would take 100 years to get parity is something needs to be done but it

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is hard when people feel they are being squeezed out. And it can be

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windowdressing, could have -- put a couple of people in low positions

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because it takes a race box or agenda box, and the people at the

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top don't change. And they are behind-the-scenes so people don't

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see them. Box ticking is obviously the approach in one wants. It is

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analogous to the debate about social mobility, everyone is in favour of

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it but to have it some people you'll need to move down as well as some

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moving up. People complain when they move down but you have to understand

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if you had to get change in big organisations, you sometimes have to

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push people down and give people bad news. There will be some losers. We

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should talk about the people who win as well as those who go down. It

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sounds like it was phrased in a crass way, the person who told in

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this bad news, so you have sympathy. But the principle is that you should

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try to get more women into these shows. What is telling in the

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coverage is the picture of the people running Are Now Show, three

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white blokes. There are women and people of colour and they don't all

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need to be white chaps. Thank you very much, that's it for The Papers.

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Thanks To Ben And Eleanor. Just a reminder, we take a look

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at the next day's front pages every

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