15/01/2017 The Papers


15/01/2017

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 15/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

The action gets under way this afternoon, with coverage on BBC Two.

:00:00.:00:00.

There are also regular updates live on Radio 5 Live.

:00:00.:00:14.

Hello and welcome to our review of The Papers.

:00:15.:00:17.

With me are Josie Delap, home affairs correspondent

:00:18.:00:20.

for the Economist, and journalist Sean Dilley.

:00:21.:00:21.

Let's have a look at today's front pages.

:00:22.:00:24.

The Observer says cancer patients are feeling

:00:25.:00:26.

the brunt of the NHS crisis, with operations being cancelled

:00:27.:00:29.

The Mail on Sunday suggests cutting the foreign aid budget

:00:30.:00:35.

It claims more than three quarters of voters support the idea.

:00:36.:00:39.

Meanwhile, on the same story, the Sunday Mirror has a picture

:00:40.:00:42.

of a two-year-old girl it says had to sit on the floor for eight hours

:00:43.:00:46.

Theresa May's Brexit strategy is the Sunday Telegraph's focus.

:00:47.:00:50.

It says the PM is prepared to lead Britain out of the single market.

:00:51.:00:56.

The "Brexit Battle Plan" is how the Sunday Express put it,

:00:57.:00:58.

saying Mrs May is going to get tough with Brussels.

:00:59.:01:03.

And the Sunday Times carries an image of Prince William who, it

:01:04.:01:06.

says, will be leaving his position as an air-ambulance

:01:07.:01:11.

helicopter pilot to pursue full-time royal duties.

:01:12.:01:13.

The Sunday Telegraph, story reflecting some of the other papers,

:01:14.:01:24.

gamble on a clean the Brexit, Britain could leave customs union to

:01:25.:01:29.

secure better trade talks. They have both parts per, clean Brexit seems

:01:30.:01:35.

to be watches aiming for. Yes, it seems to be a bit of a rebranding,

:01:36.:01:42.

from hard Brexit to clean. The speech will be on Tuesday,

:01:43.:01:45.

ambassadors from the 27 EU states have been invited to attend. She

:01:46.:01:52.

will lay out in more detail than she currently has her plans for

:01:53.:01:56.

Britain's exit from the EU which will include being prepared to leave

:01:57.:01:59.

the customs union as well as the single market. In order to regain

:02:00.:02:06.

full control of borders. To no longer be bound by a European Court

:02:07.:02:11.

of Justice rulings. She is also keen to end the divisive rhetoric of

:02:12.:02:14.

levers and remainders and the insults flung around... A lot of

:02:15.:02:21.

people are keen on that. It is hard to see that happening. This is her

:02:22.:02:25.

trying to answer some of her critics who say she is simply not telling us

:02:26.:02:31.

what she plans to do. Rightly picking up on the clean Brexit, good

:02:32.:02:36.

bit of rebranding, one wonders what a dirty Brexit would be. Without

:02:37.:02:41.

wishing to be too controversial, I am sick of all of the hard Brexit,

:02:42.:02:46.

soft Brexit, clean Brexit, all of this nonsense, insulting rhetoric. I

:02:47.:02:52.

know you are watching, Downing Street. We are not hiring a poet, we

:02:53.:03:00.

would have Shelley to do that. I sympathise to a degree with the

:03:01.:03:03.

Prime Minister because she is being asked and forced into revealing her

:03:04.:03:08.

negotiating position before and it is a really bad idea patented.

:03:09.:03:15.

Legally, can she remove the customs union, article 127, our membership

:03:16.:03:21.

of the single market? There is a campaign and a judicial review going

:03:22.:03:26.

to court led by a PR chap and I believe another. One is a remain and

:03:27.:03:30.

one is a lever. They are trying to argue that it needs another bit of

:03:31.:03:37.

Parliamentary scrutiny. Have we got the patience? The Sunday Times, same

:03:38.:03:44.

story. I want to move onto Donald Trump who is obviously going to be

:03:45.:03:48.

not just the biggest newsmaker this week but probably this year and the

:03:49.:03:56.

Sunday Times says he wants a summit in rhetoric. What do you make of

:03:57.:03:59.

this? Traditionally, in recent years, the President's first

:04:00.:04:04.

international visit has been to Canada, fairly innocuous. The best

:04:05.:04:12.

possible way! Donald Trump is discussing going to Russia, or took

:04:13.:04:20.

recce a third-party location, to meet with Putin -- to Iceland. This

:04:21.:04:27.

seems to have got footage officials quite worried. What exactly it will

:04:28.:04:31.

mean in terms of sanctions on Russia. -- British officials. And

:04:32.:04:42.

tromp-- and Donald Trump's intentions. The more recent ones

:04:43.:04:47.

about hacking and Crimea being occupied. Donald Trump has promised

:04:48.:04:55.

to keep an open mind on this. He has been quite flattering about Putin in

:04:56.:04:58.

recent months so I think this is another sign of his willingness to

:04:59.:05:03.

develop that relationship, something he says is going to be good for

:05:04.:05:07.

America, good for them to have warmer relations. And it could be.

:05:08.:05:10.

Someone who has been accused of looking like Vladimir Putin on

:05:11.:05:14.

occasion, particularly from behind, ultimately, whether Russia and

:05:15.:05:19.

America like each other, and they probably don't, historically, let us

:05:20.:05:25.

be honest, it is clearly of benefit to have two world powers, each of

:05:26.:05:28.

whom could be perceived by the other side as being a little bit unstable

:05:29.:05:34.

with nuclear weapons, too... I am doing a Donald Trump! It is going to

:05:35.:05:39.

be fantastic! The British are worried, that is part of the story.

:05:40.:05:44.

So they say. Within the foreign service of the US, the capital of

:05:45.:05:52.

Iceland is remembered from when Ronald Reagan tried to give away all

:05:53.:05:56.

nuclear weapons. One might wish for a nuclear free world, but some of

:05:57.:06:00.

the more hard cases in the Ronald Reagan administration went, my

:06:01.:06:03.

goodness, the president is suggesting the Gorbachev, we get rid

:06:04.:06:10.

of all of the nukes. You have to assume one of the reasons that

:06:11.:06:15.

people in the intelligence committee on foreign service in America are so

:06:16.:06:18.

worried about this is because we simply have no idea of what to

:06:19.:06:23.

expect from Donald Trump and his presidency. The knows what he could

:06:24.:06:29.

say at any moment... On Twitter, probably! Who knows. I think that is

:06:30.:06:35.

one of the most unsettling things for spooks and diplomats who are

:06:36.:06:39.

traditionally quite conservative or like to know very much... They like

:06:40.:06:47.

predictability. He is anything but predictable stock we have seen this

:06:48.:06:53.

week the president elect picking a fight, one might say, or engaging a

:06:54.:06:57.

fight with the CIA, American intelligence, which is a brave thing

:06:58.:07:02.

to do. Secondly, picking a fight with the civil rights community and

:07:03.:07:08.

with, was in John Lewis who is a hero among the civil rights

:07:09.:07:11.

committee in the United States and beyond that because of the way he

:07:12.:07:15.

conducted himself in the early 60s. When we talk about in terms of what

:07:16.:07:21.

he may say, he is limited by the Constitution. An awful lot of people

:07:22.:07:25.

do not like Donald Trump the person but they are dealing with Donald

:07:26.:07:31.

Trump the office also Reverend Jesse Jackson is also involved in the

:07:32.:07:33.

civil liberties much happening at the moment. It is fairly inevitable

:07:34.:07:39.

that they are going to be protests against the person. People have to

:07:40.:07:42.

bear in mind, again, whether people like the result, effectively, they

:07:43.:07:48.

are not protesting against democracy... Well, that is the

:07:49.:07:53.

argument we are having. It is interesting, we will have the

:07:54.:07:57.

president of the United States calling for unity in the United

:07:58.:08:04.

States, one can predict, Theresa May is doing that here, you could say it

:08:05.:08:09.

is wonderful, but it also create social problems. Absolutely, the

:08:10.:08:17.

deep breaths, no matter how much politicians call for unity, it is

:08:18.:08:23.

hard to imagine them going away. -- deep rifts. The differences are

:08:24.:08:28.

fundamental, something like Brexit, as we have seen, it reveals very

:08:29.:08:33.

great divisions. We are a polarised country. You could almost look at

:08:34.:08:37.

the Brexit referendum back in June and the US election and the

:08:38.:08:42.

percentages, they are not far off. Indeed not. This is a story which

:08:43.:08:46.

the health service... The Observer has got it as have other papers in

:08:47.:08:53.

different ways. The Mirror has the human story. The Observer has got,

:08:54.:08:57.

health service in fighters, cancer operations cancelled. Number 10 must

:08:58.:09:03.

face the truth according to a hospital chief. This is something

:09:04.:09:06.

people care deeply about. Absolutely. The point about this

:09:07.:09:12.

story, we have seen it quite a lot, stories about the crisis the NHS is

:09:13.:09:16.

facing, cancer operations have traditionally been protected, if not

:09:17.:09:20.

officially but they have been seen as things you cannot cancel. In

:09:21.:09:24.

December, some hospitals began having to postpone them, if not

:09:25.:09:29.

cancel them. The number of the hospitals doing that has increased

:09:30.:09:35.

in January. So we have got people criticising the Government for

:09:36.:09:38.

failing to acknowledge the scale of the crisis, which is nothing new. It

:09:39.:09:44.

is against the backdrop, we were talking a few moments ago before

:09:45.:09:50.

coming on air, GPs being told they have to stay from ATM until 8pm, it

:09:51.:09:54.

is no win for anybody because if you are not a Doctor Barbara, even if

:09:55.:09:59.

you are, I guess, but maybe you have got more time, it is virtually

:10:00.:10:02.

impossible to get any form of GP appointment unless you queue up --

:10:03.:10:09.

Doctor bother. Theresa May is saying that by having the surgery is open

:10:10.:10:16.

it will ease the crisis. But GPs, professional bodies, friends of

:10:17.:10:18.

mine, they feel they are slightly picked upon. Whether that is fair is

:10:19.:10:25.

wide of the debate. You cannot put it all on them. You covered this

:10:26.:10:32.

endlessly, the Economist. It is not new to this government, however we

:10:33.:10:37.

can attract Jeremy Hunt, not the most loved person in the country,

:10:38.:10:43.

very few people who do that job are loved by doctors and therefore by

:10:44.:10:47.

those of us who like our doctors. What is true about the current

:10:48.:10:50.

situation is Britain was not spending on health services is

:10:51.:10:54.

falling behind other rich countries. We are spending less in comparison

:10:55.:10:58.

to other places. The difficulty with health care spending compared to

:10:59.:11:03.

something like criminal justice spending, which Theresa May was in

:11:04.:11:07.

charge before, is that you can decide, I am simply not going to

:11:08.:11:13.

send people to prison, I am going to... I'm going to make these

:11:14.:11:17.

crimes, they are no logo going to be crimes. You cannot do that with

:11:18.:11:24.

health care services. -- no longer. We have an increasingly sick

:11:25.:11:26.

population. This is only going to be a bigger problem. Also, as you know,

:11:27.:11:32.

governments talk about more money for the health service, but there

:11:33.:11:38.

are more of us, the biggest success of British art in the past 50 years,

:11:39.:11:41.

we are living longer, great success story, except if you happen to need

:11:42.:11:45.

a doctor in your lady bloomer and you need more than ten minutes. The

:11:46.:11:55.

figures as well -- in your 80s. There is more money being siphoned

:11:56.:11:59.

off for social care and the like. Maybe five years ago, are member

:12:00.:12:02.

interviewing the Health Secretary at the time, 103 billion, so the amount

:12:03.:12:09.

is increasing. To be frank, it is really difficult. I have sympathies

:12:10.:12:12.

with both sides. The NHS is being cut and they are feeling the

:12:13.:12:18.

squeeze. But if you say, here is ?300 billion, which would be a

:12:19.:12:20.

little bit under half of what the entire Treasury is worth, 768

:12:21.:12:24.

billion, we would still have people surely wanting more budget and it is

:12:25.:12:29.

natural because we want to help people. It is true, going back to

:12:30.:12:34.

your point, if you look at Jeremy, per capita, they have almost three

:12:35.:12:38.

times the number of hospital beds available because they have a

:12:39.:12:41.

different system and they spend more money on it -- if you look at

:12:42.:12:46.

Germany. The NHS used to be the envy of the world. It has not been

:12:47.:12:50.

replicated though. Exactly. When we talk about it, it is difficult. We

:12:51.:12:55.

talk about the NHS and the NHS budget as though it is one

:12:56.:12:58.

monolithic organisation and it is many different organisations and

:12:59.:13:03.

many different things have money spent on them. Social care, that has

:13:04.:13:07.

been cut. The knock-on effects of that in terms of elderly people

:13:08.:13:11.

getting sick at home and needing to come into hospital, putting pressure

:13:12.:13:13.

on hospitals, it is something that is a very complex ecosystem. Moving

:13:14.:13:20.

the Telegraph, Facebook and fake news. I love this story! Let me that

:13:21.:13:27.

it! Parliament to grill Facebook chiefs over fake news. This is the

:13:28.:13:35.

stories which you can see on social media and elsewhere. I am going to

:13:36.:13:39.

be very cynical now and point out there is a business model that works

:13:40.:13:43.

for online papers were the headline is so outrageously devoid from the

:13:44.:13:49.

reality, the reality is the last paragraph, accusing the Prime

:13:50.:13:55.

Minister still linked the lemur Christine Yate cupcake and a great

:13:56.:14:03.

big hole thing and then they say, the Daily Mail, any other

:14:04.:14:07.

publication, the prime Mr was in Jersey that day and could not have

:14:08.:14:15.

been there -- the Prime Minister stealing a cupcake. There is a claim

:14:16.:14:22.

and a counterclaim and here is our research. The answer to so-called

:14:23.:14:26.

fake news is to do news accurately, to have journalists, not

:14:27.:14:38.

churnalists. And have an editor. I am sorry, it was in the Telegraph a

:14:39.:14:42.

while ago, a story which said, could previous lovers change how your

:14:43.:14:49.

future children will look? In paragraph six, the research was

:14:50.:14:56.

based on fruit flies. Intriguing. I thought, what is fake news? That is

:14:57.:15:00.

one of the crucial questions. We know that there have been stories

:15:01.:15:04.

that have been utterly false that people take very seriously and it

:15:05.:15:08.

affects how they might vote and how they view the world and it is

:15:09.:15:12.

something to take very seriously. We have to be very careful also about

:15:13.:15:20.

what we label fake news and who label is something fake. Donald

:15:21.:15:24.

Trump says CNN is fake news because he does not like it. It creates

:15:25.:15:28.

biblical aspect to a genuinely difficult story. Do you mean

:15:29.:15:33.

propaganda? -- it creates a difficult aspect. A story that the

:15:34.:15:39.

BBC is to launch a fake news unit. Actually, I think it... It is

:15:40.:15:46.

supposed to be anti-fake news. It is a fantastic idea. The problem is, it

:15:47.:15:53.

is using rhetoric. To give you an example, with huge respect to

:15:54.:15:56.

anybody in public service, the former prime Mr David Cameron said

:15:57.:16:00.

that journalists should refer to the organisation that itself the Islamic

:16:01.:16:08.

State as so-called Islamic State, I can tell you that I refused to use

:16:09.:16:12.

the term the prime Minster said we should use because there should be

:16:13.:16:15.

an unhealthy tension. I said the organisation called itself the

:16:16.:16:20.

Islamic State and thereafter you call it IS or Islamic State. There

:16:21.:16:26.

is a danger, not just when politicians tell the media what

:16:27.:16:29.

language they should use, we need to have independence. Anti-fake news

:16:30.:16:36.

unit is a brilliant idea. Front page of the Telegraph, 50 Conservative

:16:37.:16:41.

MPs have demanded the Government brings in tougher strike clause --

:16:42.:16:49.

laws. This is an old chestnut, very interesting because the Southern

:16:50.:16:53.

Rail strike has caused such misery. Absolutely. 50 MPs saying that

:16:54.:16:58.

strikes on critical public infrastructure such as train and bus

:16:59.:17:04.

services should only be allowed if they can be deemed reasonable and

:17:05.:17:08.

proportionate by a judge and if they are allowed to go ahead, unions have

:17:09.:17:14.

to provide a skeleton service. What is striking about this, pardon the

:17:15.:17:20.

pun... Well done! They have caused enormous misery, the strikes, but

:17:21.:17:24.

the numbers of workers who are members of the unions and the number

:17:25.:17:29.

of days lost to strikes has declined dramatically. We are left with a few

:17:30.:17:33.

strikes that cause a lot of misery because they are in very high

:17:34.:17:38.

profile industries, where it is very difficult to get workers to stand in

:17:39.:17:41.

when you go on strike. We have to remember, when you have MPs calling

:17:42.:17:47.

for widespread laws about strikes, this is a smaller and smaller issue.

:17:48.:17:53.

What do you make of it? I am loathe to taking any more rights away or

:17:54.:17:57.

creating more laws because successive governments like doing

:17:58.:18:02.

that. I have a little bit of sympathy, I do not tend to use that

:18:03.:18:05.

train network, but I have a little bit of sympathy. For example

:18:06.:18:10.

policing, I do not know if you would call it an industry, but they are

:18:11.:18:14.

not allowed to strike because we need a police service. It is a

:18:15.:18:19.

privately run company, that is the other argument. You cannot go on

:18:20.:18:26.

another railway to come up from Brighton. The devil is in the detail

:18:27.:18:29.

and it is about negotiation. We have to leave it there. That is it. Thank

:18:30.:18:34.

you to Mevlut Mert Aydintas and Ariel Zurawski. -- thank you to Sean

:18:35.:18:44.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS