29/01/2017 The Papers


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29/01/2017

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


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medal after he took home bronze in 2013. That is all the sport. Now

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time for The treble Hello and welcome to our look ahead

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to what the the papers will be With me are the journalist

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and auther Matthew Green and the Education Editor

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of the Sunday Times, The Observer leads with what it

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calls the "global fury" in reaction to Donald Trump's immigration ban,

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preventing people from seven mainly Muslim countries

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from entering the United States. The Sunday Times says that

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Donald Trump's visit to the UK could be disrupted,

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as the US President is engaged in a reportedly "extraordinary"

:00:52.:00:54.

diplomatic row with Prince Charles The Express says Prince William

:00:55.:00:56.

and Harry are to unveil a statue of Princess Diana in the grounds

:00:57.:01:01.

of Kensington Palace to mark The Daily Mail reports that NHS

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doctors have been advised in guidelines from the BMA not

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to call pregnant women "mothers" because it might offend

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transgender people. And The Telegraph leads

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with comments from the Northern Ireland Secretary,

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James Brokenshire, who tells the paper the system

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for investigating murders committed so, let's begin, and we're going to

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start with the Observer. All of the papers this morning reflecting on

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what Donald Trump has done. Indeed. America is clearly on the brink of a

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precipice. We are seeing paranoia and fear of the kind that

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accompanied the internment of Japanese Americans in World War II.

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What does it mean for Britain? We've seen Theresa May essentially cosying

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up to trump in the hope that she might somehow provide sort of a

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constraining influence -- restraining influence, but we have

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seen that hope blown out of the water with what happened yesterday

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with these thousands of refugees and migrants. All credit is the

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Observer, they have laid it there on the front page. Trump is ignorant,

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prejudiced and vicious in ways that no American leader has been. I think

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Theresa May's refusal to join other European leaders condemning what'

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Trump is doing is a huge stain on her leadership. A huge criticism of

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her has been that she is letting America do what they want to do

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rather than condemning it. Is she stuck between a rock and a hard

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place? I suppose in a way she is because she very much wants to sign

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trade deals with America post-Brexit. She has come out today,

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her spokesman, and said that she does not agree with Trump stance.

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She didn't do it herself. She didn't. The Observer is the early

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paper that has splashed on this this morning. All credit to the Observer,

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they got quickly to this issue and they have seen how big it is going

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to be. To be fair to her, she has, through this morning, she has made

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this statement, she has said if there are British citizens caught up

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in this through dual nationality, we will be looking to represent them.

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She's going to have difficulty, you're absolutely right, Matthew.

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Already this morning, members of her party are saying look, this is

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wrong, we don't agree it. Sarah Wollaston has come out, Ruth

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Davidson has said quite clearly that this is wrong. We understand there

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is one Iraqi born Tory MP who may be banned from the states after this,

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under these new rules. We saw Theresa May at the press conference

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in Turkey ducking the question twice and then making this very weak

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statement about, essentially, it is America's business. We need a leader

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who is willing to stand up for democratic values. I'm afraid that

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Theresa May is failing that test. It's not good enough to issue a very

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weakly worded statement saying we could not agree with what Donald

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Trump is doing. US newspapers are calling him a tinpot dictator.

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America, in the past week, has suffered its ugliest start to any

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republic in the history of the country. We need to be joining other

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Western leaders in standing up to this and not cravenly endorsing it.

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It is a completely new era in politics, right across the world. It

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is, but has Theresa May grasp this? She is surrounded by these special

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advisers that the papers always talk about being incredibly intelligent,

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but maybe she should consult a psychologist, who would tell her

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that Donald Trump is suffering from narcissistic personality disorder,

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he is prejudiced, vengeful. It is totally obvious, it is not politics

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as usual and Theresa May has to catch up with that. Let's move on to

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the Sunday Times because it's not just the rest of the world he is

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fighting with, it's also Prince Charles! What has happened? This is

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a great story. Donald Trump seems to being gauged in an extraordinary

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diplomatic row with the Prince of Wales over climate change and is

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threatening to disrupt his forthcoming state visit to the UK".

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On the one hand you have Prince Charles, environmental campaigner.

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On the other hand, Donald Trump who is a climate change denier. There

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are some amazing quotes in this story in the Sunday Times and I have

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highlighted a view of them here. Apparently Trump's people are saying

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that he is very reluctant to meet Prince Charles and they have warned

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it would be counter-productive for Charles to lecture Trump on green

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issues and he would erupt if he were pushed! On the other hand you have

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got Charl plus people saying he is determined to meet Donald Trump.

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This is Donald Trump who has tweeted about how, wouldn't anyone want to

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make money by tweeting topless photos of Kate Middleton... He has

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tweeted his desire to have slept with Princess Diana... Why are we

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letting him into the country? I find the tone of the Sunday Times story

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quite puzzling, as it Prince Charles, somehow his advocacy on

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climate change is somehow problematic and is going to disrupt

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this visit. Let's face it, climate change is the threat to the future

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of organised life on planet Earth and Donald Trump has gagged members

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of his government, scientists who are working on this and he has

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essentially confirmed that the Republican party is now the most

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dangerous organisation on earth. The idea that Prince Charles is somehow

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at fault here I think is wrong, we should be rallying around him and

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saying come on, what direction are we taking and why? I don't think the

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story is saying that Prince Charles is at fault here. It implies Prince

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Charles is somehow causing a problem to what otherwise would be a

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wonderful visit. I don't think that is the tone at all. I think it lays

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out an argument very clearly. The straightforward reporting here,

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there is one paragraph that says Trump has repeatedly branded climate

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change a hoax and a moneymaking industry and was created by the

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Chinese to damage American industry. When you have that sort of straight

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reporting you think, OK, you can make up your own mind. Senior

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government officials now believe Charles is one of the biggest risk

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factors for the visit"... Donald Trump is the risk factor! He might

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tell him... Donald Trump might agree with him just like you did with

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Theresa May, alternative facts again! We're going back to Theresa

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May and President Erdogan in Turkey and the trade deal for that. If we

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just move, just tidying up the desk here, there we go... So the viewers

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can see this one. A double page spread there, they shake on trade

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deals despite fears over human rights. What do you make of this

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one? She has agreed a trade deal, or is preparing to agree a ?100 million

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deal for fighter jets which could lead in fact to Britain becoming

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Turkey's main defence partner. At the same time, she has given a very

:08:48.:08:52.

clear warning on human rights. Again it is this need to find close trade

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and diplomatic links Stal side B EU in the wake of Brexit. It is the

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sense that the world order has changed. We never had any morals

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about selling arms, look at the billions of dollars we have sent to

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Saudi Arabia which is now being used to bomb civilians and hospitals in

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Yemen. It is great that we have human rights concerns in the

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headline there but it doesn't make any difference to British policy,

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let's not me under any illusions, we are one of the biggest arms

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exporters in the world. Post Brexit, as we walk away from the single

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market on our doorstep, we will be even more reliant on selling weapons

:09:41.:09:45.

to anyone who will buy them. I've never heard his words before, there

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we go, apparently Trump has a fear of slopes and that is why he was

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holding her hand! I think bathmophobia is going to be one of

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the words of the year, everyone is talking about this and classed as a

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mark of special affection but apparently it might just be the case

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that he is quite afraid of slopes and he just gathered her hand to

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steady himself! He's also afraid of touching people because of germs! It

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will haunt Theresa May, won't it? What a disaster. The whole thing is

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so embarrassing. I don't know what the rest of the world must think of

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Britain right now. If you don't condemn authoritarianism, you become

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complicit in it and she is teaching us that, unfortunately. Let's move

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away from Theresa May and Donald Trump and moved to the Daily Mail.

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"Don't Call pregnant patients the mothers", and why not? Because it

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might offend transgender people. Did they say they might be offended? No,

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but I think these organisations, a lot of them are producing these kind

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of guides for inclusive language. Of course the mail on Sunday disagrees

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with it and calls it a ludicrous politically correct objective. The

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argument is that you should call them pregnant people instead of

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pregnant mothers, because there are transitioning people who might have

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babies who might be offended. Would they not be mothers anyway if they

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are having babies, no matter what your gender you are still giving

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birth? But mother is a sort of feminine word, isn't it? There is

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one transitioning person who has become pregnant. Hayden is legally

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male, he was born a girl but he is transitioning to become a man. I

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would like to read the original document that this mail on Sunday

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story is based on. The mail on Sunday does do some good reporting

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sometimes but my question is, is this a blanket order that the word

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mothers is now banned? I find that hard to believe. Or is it merely

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offering language that could be used if you are a doctor treating a

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transgender patient. Let's face it, our society is evolving. It's not so

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long ago that we locked people up their sexuality. Yes it's a con the

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gated area to negotiate and it might make feel -- people feel

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uncomfortable but people born transgender go through incredible

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anguish and pain, partly because attitudes in society are so

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prejudiced still. So let's at least support doctors if they are trying

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to move beyond that a bit. It's very easy for the Mail on Sunday to

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create the outraged brigade. I've noticed in a love of forms and

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things now, you are being asked what pronoun you would like to be

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referred to by. I think there is a generation of young people coming up

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for whom the very strict gender divides are not as strict as they

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were for our generation, they are much more fluid. Headteachers of

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girls schools have been given guides and told not to call girls girls,

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instead of saying girls go to your lessons, say pupils go to your

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lessons. It may be rare to have a transgender child but it is only

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language, if we can change our language and it stops offence to

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people, is that that -- is that such a bad thing? The Secretary of State

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saying that soldiers and police have been failed by this inquiry into the

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Troubles. The Sunday Telegraph has a strong military constituency amongst

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its leadership, knows -- so not surprising to see this as the

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splash. Ministers saying that this inquiry into crimes that were

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allegedly committed up to 40 years ago in the troubles has gone off the

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rails. We've seen this with the Iraq inquiry, which has caused terrible

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handling of officers in the military. Let's face it, Northern

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Ireland was an extremely dirty conflict and there is no doubt that

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British troops committing crimes and they should be investigated, but we

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should also remember that the psychological scars inflicted on

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tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of British troops who

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deployed over the years are still very alive today and we need to take

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that into account. That would apply to all inquiries, where you have got

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soldiers or police taking part in a conflict. I mean, yesterday there

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was a march on Downing Street by about 1000 veterans and it was

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addressed by Dennis Hutchings who is 75 and he has been charged with

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attempted murder over a fatal shooting in Northern Ireland in

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1974. They want a statute of limitations. I think there should be

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a time after a conflict when you draw a line actually, so it doesn't

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go on for years and years. They want retribution. This is the problem, we

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fight these wars and the legacy continues. I mean, Northern Ireland

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has one of the highest rates of post-traumatic stress disorder in

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the world. Belfast is a tiny city but the ghosts of that conflict are

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still very much alive. People have a right to demand the truth. I grew up

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through that and that was my time as a teenager. The truth and

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reconciliation commission... Yes, right, on that, let's move on. The

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Observer on page one, "Grassroots Labour revolting on Brexit". This is

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interesting, isn't it? Jeremy Corbyn himself in the past has been a major

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rebel and now they have got this three line whip and no one is happy.

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How do you think this is going to play out? This is the Brexit

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dilemma, isn't it? The people likely to be hit hardest if we crash out of

:16:30.:16:33.

the single market are people on lower incomes, Labour's

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constituencies. It is not surprisingly many of the MPs and

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grassroots Labour supporters are very unhappy to see Jeremy Corbyn

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falling in line behind Article 50. That is I get -- Adele and it is not

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going to be easy to resolve. What does it do for Jeremy Corbyn? And

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Labour because they could be stuck in the middle with nothing through

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this. It is just a continuation of the internal warfare going on inside

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the Labour Party. Last night there was this open letter to Jeremy

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Corbyn circulating on Facebook and now many constituents have signed

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it. Let's raise through the rest of the list because we are beginning to

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run out of time. A quick look at the express, the young princes are going

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to unveil a statue to their mother, Diana, to mark the 20th anniversary

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which will be in August. It's a long time coming, do you think? I think

:17:29.:17:32.

this is a lovely gesture actually. It's going to be erected in the

:17:33.:17:37.

grounds of Kensington Palace where the public anger and see it. It will

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be their permanent tribute to her, marking the 20th anniversary of her

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death. Yes it may have been nice to have it earlier but at we're having

:17:46.:17:57.

it now. Let's jump to John Hurt, we lost John Heard. Can we talk about

:17:58.:18:05.

Prince Harry's expression of emotion and how he is a credit to our

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country and should resist Donald Trump at the door of Buckingham

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Palace! Tributes pouring in all over for John Hurt, obviously very

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beloved. Yes, we all remember that brilliant scene in Alien when it

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burst out of his chest. And the Elephant Man as well. And if you see

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Jackie, you can see him. He blazed the priest. Astonishing. -- he plays

:18:35.:18:42.

the priest. He has completed another three films, I think, which we are

:18:43.:18:48.

yet to see. Finally, the Sunday Times, page one, Trident's faulty

:18:49.:18:53.

guidance. This is an embarrassing story, it has been running for a few

:18:54.:18:57.

days, apparently the Trident missile test launch veered off course,

:18:58.:19:00.

heading towards the American mainland before it was detonated in

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midair and is one assumes it was not equipped with a warhead, but it

:19:05.:19:08.

raises huge questions over the whole purpose of Trident, doesn't it? This

:19:09.:19:12.

enormously expensive deterrent and a problem with it is that the

:19:13.:19:16.

technology is evolving so fast, we are soon going to be having

:19:17.:19:20.

underwater drones that can follow the submarine right out of the...

:19:21.:19:27.

And render it completely obsolete. It said it did what it was supposed

:19:28.:19:31.

to do when something goes wrong, it fears off and explodes. Not on

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America! But I was reading yesterday or this morning that part of it

:19:38.:19:45.

washed up on a beach... We broke this story last week in the Sunday

:19:46.:19:49.

Times and we have a follow-up story today and I think what our follow-up

:19:50.:19:54.

shows that actually this deterrent was blighted with problems with its

:19:55.:19:57.

navigation control for years before this particular malfunction. Inside

:19:58.:20:02.

the paper there is a really interesting suggestion that maybe

:20:03.:20:06.

the whole system was hacked. And so the reason it malfunctioned... Can

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we not just mothballed this thing, or are we just have it, just have it

:20:13.:20:16.

with no warheads. No one will ever know and it is still a deterrent! If

:20:17.:20:22.

we ever have to press that button, it's all over anyway. Thank you very

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much, both of you. It's been great to talk to you.

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Just a reminder we take a look at tomorrows front pages every

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evening at 10.40pm here on BBC News.

:20:35.:20:37.