05/02/2017 The Papers


05/02/2017

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


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Hello and welcome to our look at what the the papers

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With me are journalist James Rampton and Dave Wooding,

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political editor for The Sun on Sunday.

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Good to have the birds looking through the papers with us. Let's

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have a look at the front pages. The front page of

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the Sunday Telegraph. The paper leads on the Government's

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?60 million investigation into historic allegations of abuse

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in Iraq, the paper says it understands that MPs are due

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to conclude that it's The Observer reports that

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Theresa May's Government is going to make a major

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shift in housing policy away from promoting home ownership

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and towards better deals Donald Trump appears to have found

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a new ally in the shape of the former Archbishop

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of Canterbury, George Carey is quoted in the Sunday Express

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as hitting out at the 'hysterical' overreactions of the

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President's critics. The Sunday Times has investigated

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what it calls 'deficiencies' in Defence procurement,

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including ships so noisy that Russian submarines can hear

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them 100 miles away. The photograph is of England player

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Ben Te'o celebrating victory over Finally, the Mail On Sunday's

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headline is a story about the former Ukip leader Nigel Farage,

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and how he is sharing a ?4 million property

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in West London with his friend, Let's talk about the former

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Archbishop of Canterbury defending Donald Trump, Donald Trump again in

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the news in the last few minutes of course because a court in the United

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States has put a block again on his appeal on the travel ban, a federal

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appeals court denying the Justice Department's request for a

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reinstatement of the travel ban. But the former Archbishop of Canterbury

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saying critics have been too hysterical. Yes, I think this is to

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terrific extort -- terrific story from the Sunday express, he said

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critics have had an hysterical overreaction and it is

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characteristic of those who consider themselves progressive to reserve

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condemnation for America and ignore much greater evildoers. I think that

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is an interesting line to take, also the fact that Trump said he would

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give priority to Christian migrants from some of the Middle Eastern

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countries, that has played well with Cary, but another religious leader,

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Cardinal Vincent Nichols, has said Tory political leadership does not

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play the fear card and that is a really good line, that when we are

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in the grip of what seems to be a constitutional crisis in the US,

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this backwards and forwards between the different courts, and the fear

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of what Trump is going to do, protest everywhere, I think it is

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scary and don't think it is an hysterical overreaction to what the

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leader of the free world could do. I think what Mr Carey is doing here is

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trying to calm down the hyperbole, people are using the word fascist,

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let's get it straight from a user to fascist, he is democratically

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elected, and he is not a dictator either because the courts are

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holding him to account. Although he was criticised for criticising the

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judge went against him. The so-called Judge! Some people in

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America saying that is undermining the independence of the American

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judiciary. The judiciary not quite as independent as ours because they

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are politically appointed, we the same business with the Brexit boat

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when some members of Government criticised the media as well for

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criticising... What George Carey is saying is, let's just calm down the

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language little bit, yes he is not an ideal president, but there are

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worse people around. He recalls how, when he was Archbishop of

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Canterbury, he was asked to supper with some rather odious people like

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Robert Mugabe, he mentions North Korea, Sudan, Assad, other people...

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But we are talking about the leader of the free world here so we should

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not put him in the same bracket as those people? Absolutely not but

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there is a greater point here, people taking to the streets about

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Donald Trump tend to be people of the left, you don't see them taking

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to the street about the president of Hungary who was criticised and built

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a wall of his own against immigrants, and rehab Slovakia,

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similar outspoken... But we are just a few days into the Trump presidency

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and we have this legal battle starting to unravel on this travel

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ban between the president and the courts. What strikes me is how

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cataclysmic it appears, after only two weeks, it seems there is almost

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a massive culture war going on in the US, and resonating throughout

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the world. When you have Chuck Schumer, the Democrat minority

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leader in the house, in tears talking about the travel ban, the

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long serving Democrat saying he has served with every president since

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forward and have never seen such catastrophic... Donald Trump said

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they were fake tears. Yes, he said, I must consult his acting coach,

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typically insulting comment in my view. This week we were talking

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about going down the rabbit hole and coming out at Alice's tea party,

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that is what I feel we are going through with Trump at the moment.

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Lord Carey also talks about the considerable list of goods who have

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served as president, some of whom railed against bids to outlaw

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slavery back in the day. Well, he is not wrong there! We will not go too

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far into the American history! John Adams was terrible! He wasn't,

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actually! The Observer, a story about a shift

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in Conservative housing policy in favour of people who rent, this is

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potentially significant? Yes, as they point out in the headline it is

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a break from the Thatcher homes revolution when she famously in the

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1980s gave the right to buy the council house tenants. What Theresa

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May seems to be focusing on with this new policy which will be

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unveiled on Tuesday is generation rent, she is going to try to bring

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down rent. Reading the details, not quite clear how she's going to do

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it, she is having consultations with rental organisations and at the same

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time trying to flood the market with more affordable rental homes to

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bring down the cost of rent. In a sense, the Conservatives have been

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forced into that because young people just cannot afford to buy. I

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have got three daughters approaching the age when they want to leave home

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and get wood of their parents! If they live in London, how can they

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possibly afford the rent on starting salaries? It is impossible. It is

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interesting that Theresa May is breaking the Thatcherite credo. I

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remember footage of Mrs Thatcher having a cup of tea in the first --

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with the first council house owners who had bought the house from the

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state, said this is a massive philosophical shift, but she has got

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to build 250,000 new houses a year to meet the target. Bringing down

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rent is a good thing which will affect lots of people. The

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underlying problem of homeownership is the number of people owning homes

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has fallen dramatically since 2010, 380 2000 fewer couples with children

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now own their own home and that, when we are trying to build a home

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owning democracy, is important. In other European countries, home only

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is not such a big deal, people take for granted the fact they will maybe

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read all their lives. In Germany it is given that you will do that. We

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have this old-fashioned phrase that an Englishman's home is his castle

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and I think we do believe we are a property owning democracy, but it is

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a market as well and if you are priced out of the market, as Theresa

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May is discovering, you have to find a way around that. Enabled the

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younger generation who you want to work to be able to live in

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unaffordable house. Let's go to the Mail on Sunday, Nigel Farage and

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some salacious allegations about him that we may not go into too much

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detail on! Do we know any good libel lawyers?

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He has gone from politics but haven't gone, in a sense. He is a

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colourful character, always good value and everything he does is

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looked at quite closely. He was asked by the Mail On Sunday a few

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weeks ago whether he had left his wife and said, no, we bumble along

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like any other couple, and now it appears he has a political friend, a

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bit younger than him, staying in the ?4 million bachelor pad where he

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spends his weekdays. He has insisted she is a friend who is staying there

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purely because she has nowhere else to stay at the moment, but she was

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involved in this funding issue which was dealt by the European Union some

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other time. Let's move the Sunday Times, huge gaps in British

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defences, all to do with defence procurement, allegations about some

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of our submarines which are rather noisy, apparently, the Russians can

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hear them from 100 miles away! I think this is a great story, it

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makes the MoD look a bit like the comedy of errors, in a way. Russian

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submarines can hear these clunky ships which sound like a box of

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spanners underwater from 100 miles away, and they are costing billions

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of pounds. There are also things about the front-line tanks that have

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been too polite and can't fit properly into the transporters. It

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is absolutely absurd that they didn't check these things before.

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And after all, it is our money, isn't it, and it seems Ms blue-eyed

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thing, oh, if this takes nine years and we have to reduce the size of

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the AV -- the Navy or the air force, it doesn't matter, but it does, the

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MoD is one of the biggest spending departments. They are staggering

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sums in terms of their procurement Budget, billions and billions of

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pounds. The last Labour Government ran into difficulty with the

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overspend of the Budget. ?1.2 billion worth of drones which have

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not been used yet because they don't work. These armoured vehicles which

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are faulty. One of the people interviewed here talks about how in

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submarines they were sticking with wooden wedges in the hatch to stop

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it rattling so it could not be heard by Russian submarines. He said that

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was a very good way of sorting the problem out! It seems very Heath

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Robinson. The MoD apparently as justified these noisy ships by

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saying, when they were ordered X years ago, we did not think we had

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the Cold War again, but, hello, Ukraine, increasing influence in

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Syria, it is very much a Cold War back on the agenda. So you think it

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matters if the Russian submarines can hear our ships? I do, because

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they have this new ship called the Black hole which is absolutely

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terrifying, you cannot hear it coming, it is like Harry Potter and

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an invisible cloak, he is there and has got you before you can see him!

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I thought that was the idea of submarines?! It is, but the MoD have

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not worked that out! They have, but the Russians have leapt ahead with

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their technology. The Sunday Telegraph, the Government's ?60

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billion investigation into those allegations of abuse in Iraq has

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been unfit for purpose according to a Parliamentary inquiry.

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All the expected conclusion of a Parliamentary inquiry. Does that

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surprise you? No, it is the league of an inquiry due to come out

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shortly, it comes in the wake of Phil Shiner, the lawyer who was

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struck off last week, I think he claimed ?1.6 million in fees using

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legal aid to drum up false allegations against our service men

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and women serving in Iraq, and it now seems that he was being funded

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to the tune of ?200,000 to his legal firm and ?110,000 I think it was

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wedged to this Iraqi fixer who went around drumming up business. Some of

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the British soldiers in the frame for this have spoken movingly about

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the stress it has put them under, often already suffering various

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kinds of post-traumatic stress anyway and then the stress of the

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legal battles... Absolutely, I do think that the word witch hunt is

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strong but I think it is justified in this case. Shiner launched nearly

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2500 criminal complaint against troops and so far there have been no

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successful prosecutions in seven years. That is an extraordinary

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failure rate and it does raise questions about why the MoD actually

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funded him and his agents to mount what may well be a witchhunt and has

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caused very, very unnecessary degrees of stress. It is quite right

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if it is going to be so strong attacking the MoD for doing that.

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The press have campaigned quite happily on this, on behalf of

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British soldiers, saying they have been unfairly, had a witchhunt

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against them. The MoD have said that they take the way our troops behave

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in theatre seriously because we are a civilised country and we look at

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these things. The problem is it has dragged on too long, it has been on

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an industrial scale, and like you, I have been out on these operations

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and they are very professional, by and large. What some of them were

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saying, I was hearing in interviews last week, that commanders make them

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think twice about the decisions they make in the heat of battle, trying

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to second-guess what kind of legal consequences they might face. It is

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like doctors now thinking twice about taking certain procedures

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because they are worried about legal action. I would say it is absolutely

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right that we do take action when there is evidence of wrongdoing,

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like in the Baha Moussa case, the Hotel receptionist who was beaten to

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death, quite right that people were brought up about that. It is what

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distinguishes us from the terrorists, the fact that we have a

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rule of law that we adhere to, we don't behead people we disagree

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with, they go through due process and I think it is right that we do

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that, but this seems to have gone over the top. Speaking of rules,

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Dave, there are certain rules to be observed will be talked about

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chocolate bars, which I know is a subject close to your heart!

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Apparently they are shrinking by credible event in a war on sugar?

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This is the next tabloid campaign! They will cut the size of bars by

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20%, I am surprised they have not blamed it on Brexit. When all is

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said and done people said those who voted Brexit were fruit and nut

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cases! But will they cut the cost of the bar by 20%? I think that is

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unlikely. In which case we are all being diddled. I think this is a

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huge scandal, the manufacturers have said, and I apologise to people

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having breakfast, they have not been able to do this before because the

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artificial sweeteners have an unfortunate effect on your stomach.

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God forbid chocolate causes harm because it is one of the best parts

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of life! I don't think we have only now, it is a little bit early! Thank

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you Bob, that is The Papers for now, and we will take a look at

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tomorrow's print pages every evening at 10:40pm here on BBC News.

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