14/06/2017 The Papers


14/06/2017

No need to wait to see what's in the papers - tune in for a lively and informed conversation about the next day's headlines.


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Ministers have ordered urgent checks on buildings where similar work has

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Hello, and welcome to our look ahead to what the papers will be

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With me are the writer and broadcaster, Mihir Bose,

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and the former Pensions Minister, Baroness Altmann.

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Good evening to you both. Good evening.

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Tomorrow's front pages, starting with this.

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There's only one story on tomorrow's front pages.

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The Telegraph carries a haunting photograph

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The Express reports people throwing their children out

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of windows to save them from the blaze.

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The i describes the tragedy as avoidable, saying that residents

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had repeatedly raised concerns about fire safety.

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The Metro warns that dozens of people are feared dead.

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The Guardian focuses on the warnings from residents it says were ignored.

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The Times reports that the blaze spread through the building

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The demands to know how something like this could have happened.

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And the Mirror carries a photograph of the burning building

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So, we will begin. So much to talk about. This story rightly dominates

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every single front page. The Mail. It has that terrifying image of the

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tower, really, as an Inferno, asking how the hell could it happen, a

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sober pun, because it does look like hell. It must have felt like hell.

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This is such a tragedy. The first thing is to talk about the people

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who have suffered, the families and loved ones, people in hospital,

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people we don't know what happened to them. My heart goes out to them.

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How could this happen in Britain? The indication is this is clearly a

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tragedy that could have and should have been avoided. We need to know

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why it wasn't and who is responsible and what steps were not taken that

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should have been taken? In a country like ours, one of the most advanced

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and developed, with our resources to make and health and safety

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regulations. Yes. A fire destroys a whole tower block? That is what this

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is suggesting. Sheer disbelief we can see this in London. In this day

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and age and in our country, with all the effort of rules and regulations,

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fire safety has been a strong point in all of the health and safety

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regulations, and every tower block has to have a fire safety

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inspection. It all has to pass. The residents seemed to have been told

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it did and there was no fire risk. This is a Dickensian past. It should

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have happened decades ago, not in 2017. The i. It spells out a little

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bit more on the front page what you were saying about the concerns

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raised. Tragic, horrific, avoidable. It has gone on to detail in the

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other pages about concerns raised a long time ago in 2009. There was a

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fire back then. Six people died. 20 people were injured. At that time,

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the fire spread very quickly and there were questions spread about

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how that happened. It seems nothing has moved on from there. In 2013,

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there was an all-party Fire and Rescue review. Questions need to be

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answered. The residents themselves have been raising questions and

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warning that this sort of thing could happen. Regulations were

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changed, but clearly whatever was done has not avoided this kind of

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disaster. And that is the real sadness of all of this. You know?

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People have spent a lot of time and a lot of money on assessing fire.

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They had a policy for fire. Clearly it is not sufficient. It takes

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something like this for us to learn that. The residents where indeed

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warning it would take a catastrophe, a catastrophic event, as the put it,

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before someone would take them seriously. Questions were raised

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about the cladding acting like chimney, encouraging the fire to

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spread, going between the cladding and the walls. It was meant to keep

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people safe. They were told to stay put in their flat and they would be

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rescued. That advice sounds almost lethal, an invitation to death. In

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fact, those who ignored the advice save themselves. That is where you

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got the headline "Deathtrap." Actually, the stay put advice would

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be OK if they came and put the fire out. But if you were staying put,

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and you were thinking you should get out, you could not, because the

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smoke and flames engulfed everything. Yes. How could this

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advice you given when the fire safety precautions were not there to

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make the advice mean anything? What makes it more sad is the London Fire

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Brigade apparently warned about this cladding. There are already concerns

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about it. We have to stress that we don't know if this is because. We

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don't know. -- the cause. There was also talk about recent gas pipes and

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works, some new ones put in the stairwell with boilers and so on.

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There may be other reasons, but we don't know. And this building is

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30-40- 50 years old. People living in similar properties will be

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worried today. We don't know much about it except that it moved very

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fast in a matter of minutes. The fact you can talk about so many

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potential reasons, these have all come out during the day, mostly from

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residents. I just feel sorry for those residents who have been going

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along and saying this is a risk, this is a risk, and have been told,

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"No, it's fine." Obviously, no one wants to be proven right in these

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circumstances. We have to make sure we understand what because he is. --

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the cause is. The government will be looking at buildings with similar

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cladding. I hope they put in place rescue plans in case this happens.

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If you have safety standards and they don't work, what do they mean?

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It destroys confidence! The whole thing is based in confidence. There

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are fire safety standards and I believe when a fire comes I will be

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safe. If they don't work, there is no way to feel secure. All of the

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flats had these expensive fire doors put in. A lot of money was spent

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trying to do this. Clearly, something has been going wrong.

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Something has gone dreadfully wrong. Yes. We spent some time talking

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about how it happened and concerns raised. Let us talk now about the

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people. The Times. A picture of one of the people waving from their

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window. I cannot imagine how desperate they may have been inside.

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"Help, help!" A story of trapped parents throwing their children. One

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was caught, apparently. That is an amazing story. Extraordinary.

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Wonderful. The fact they had to do something like this! This echoes of

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what happened in 9/11. Yes. That was a totally different thing. This, the

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causes of this, they should have been avoided. We don't know if the

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parents of the baby survived. They were thrown out of the ninth or

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tenth floor. We don't know how many have died. The news at the moment is

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12. We know roughly 600 people were in the block, don't we? We only know

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about a certain number of deaths and people in hospital. Stories of

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people calling loved ones. One had four children. When she got down...

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Six when she was up and four when she was down. Another, her

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12-year-old daughter, got separated somehow. They don't know where she

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is. That they had a stable policy

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because they only had a single staircase. If all of the residents

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were trying to get out while the Fire Brigade were trying to get in,

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then the fire could not be extinguished. Stapleton is a

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widespread policy. The Fire Brigade has to be able to get in to put any

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fire out. With one stairwell, it is common to stay tell people to stay

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in their flat if their flat is not on fire, to allow emergency services

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to work. Clearly that was not the right advice here. The fire doors

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clearly did not work. The blaze spread so quickly. That is the

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thing. That the blaze spread quickly. They may have withstood the

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fire but they were overcome by smoke, we do not know. Continuing on

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to the Metro. Every front page has this terrible, terrible photograph

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on it. The Metro has in the foreground one of the many brave

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firefighters. The heroes. They are the ones, really, we should

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acknowledge. They do what they do all their time and that picture sums

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it up. There he is, fighting the fire but you can feel the strain.

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Understandable he should be feeling strain but is still doing this job

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in trying to rescue people. Some firefighters say this is the worst

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thing they have ever seen. There have been in the service for decades

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and they have not seen anything quite like this. We have not seen

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anything like this. This is a towering Inferno, movies like that.

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What you think is may believe that this is a real-life tragedy. They do

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an amazing job day in and day out. Unfortunately, recently, they have

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had a lot to cope with. Not just the firefighters, of course. They have

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all stepped up to the mark and done what they are supposed to do and we

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rely on them that they really did come through and they have been

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there to help just as we would want them to. We do not often

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acknowledged that, we do not highlight what happened with Borough

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market, how quickly rescue services were there. The point has been made

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with firefighters in particular is that while everyone else is fleeing

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danger, they are going into it and it must have been terrifying. They

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were going up the floors and searching all the flats. They got to

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the 19th or of the 24 building. -- 24 floor building. They are trained

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and they are professional, they are dedicated and they are there for us.

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I can not pay enough tribute to them, they really do the most

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magnificent work. The unsung heroes, really. It is comforting that one

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sector of our society does work and work well stop at moments like this

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it's good to know that the rescue services work and that is some

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comfort in the tragedy. There will be stories coming out highlighting

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that. And they will have saved many people. It is terrible for those

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they did not save that they will have saved a large number of people

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by being there and guiding them to safety. We speak about people

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crawling around in the dark because they could not see and when they

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were trying to reach the stairs and the emergency services were guiding

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them through. Let's mention the community coming together and

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donating loads of things. You had the priest talking about it earlier.

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That shows humanity. That is something that we should be proud

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of. Britain does pull together in an emergency. We have always pulled

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together and supported each other in difficult times. People are still

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turning up with blankets and food and... Offers of accommodation,

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whatever it is, British people really do have that great spirit of

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wanting to help when people are in trouble. One more front page on this

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story, the Guardian. It has a different angle on that image that

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equally stark. It talks, amongst other things, about the families who

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are still searching for people who are missing. We touched on that

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slightly but it talks about some individuals, particularly, a

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12-year-old girl, a family with three children, an 82-year-old man.

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Yes stop yes. The 82-year-old man who could not quite walked out of

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the lights and said he would stay where he was stop they don't know

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where he is now. One cannot imagine the panic and the fear that must

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have been going through. At the time. Those people who got out, some

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of them did get out with elderly relatives. They must feel so

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grateful that they managed to escape. Others may have stayed

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behind to look after people. They did not want to leave a relative who

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was disabled, whatever. Who could not manage the stairs. One was in

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the lifts... I think the 82-year-old had gone down one for the lift and

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was told to get out because, obviously, the lift will not be

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saved in this situation. -- says in this situation, but he could not

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handle the stairs. They do not know what happened to him. The agony will

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go on. We don't know for how long, before they find their loved ones.

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Let's hope there are some happy and good stories that some people will

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turn up, some of the missing. It does happen that somebody runs away

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from a tragedy like this and then you find that they are actually OK,

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but maybe they did not take their mobile with them which is why they

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are not answering. Let us hope we hear some of that. Turning now to

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work couple of other stories, one of which in other times would have been

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much bigger news and that is the resignation of the Liberal them a

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great leader Kim Farren. What do you make of this story? Were you

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surprised? -- Tim Farron. It was clearly hoping to create a third

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way. Although their seats increased, it is not much of a wave, it is

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hardly a ripple in the pond full doc the reason he gave is that you

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cannot be a man of faith and lead a party. I find that extraordinary.

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Were you convinced by that reasoning? No. Now I was not stop he

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can say that he personally would not believe in gay marriage but I will

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support anybody, I will not have a law that makes gay marriage illegal.

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So a distinction between personal faith and political leanings. He

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seemed to think there is a contradiction in that, suggested

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that the media made a contradiction when, actually, he should have

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resolve the contradiction himself. He should have said these are the

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personal beliefs, these are the party beliefs and I will always

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support the party policy. More sympathetic? I feel very sad that

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this is somebody who really does have strong faith and felt that he

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could not marry the face, if you excuse the expression, with being a

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political leader. He came under enormous pressure and unfairly so at

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the beginning of the campaign when everybody was forcing him to talk

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about what he thinks of gay marriage. I agree with you. He

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probably did not handle that as well as he could have but it was

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relentless pressure that took away from really important issues of

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policy and what this party stood for. This party does support gay

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marriage. He was the leader of the party, as you say, this personal

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believes may be different but he would not have imposed those beliefs

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on other people. What he was asked was this own personal belief. They

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kept on and on asking him. He did not make the distinction very clear.

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He shied away from it but I think that was the issue. He shied away

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from saying that he has a personal belief and a party policy and there

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is no contradiction because I have come out in politics to do certain

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things and I am part of a party that will support these policies, fine. I

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will carry them out. He did not do that well enough. All he said was

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that it does not want to talk about it. Because he was being criticised

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for this personal belief. That is what was happening. When he was

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being interviewed he was being criticised for being, if you like,

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all, for himself, not willing to countenance the idea that he would

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accept a gay marriage. That was the problem. In a way, the line of

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questioning, instead of him trying to ride above it are the other

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leaders may have done and they sorry, that is not relevant, I am

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here as leader of the Liberal Democrats and these are policies,

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this is what we stand for. This own beliefs are this own issues, enough.

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That is depressing if a man or a woman of AIDS cannot become a

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political leader because the political party has views contrary

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to that person's religious views. We have come to a very depressing

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stage. That's what he was saying in this speech today and that is why I

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have see with him because he clearly felt that. He may be a bit more

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sceptical and I may be a bit naive but I think he really did feel that

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he could not come any longer, be in a position. If they had gotten 50

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seats he would not have resigned... Thank you both very much. That is if

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the papers tonight. You can see the front pages of the papers online on

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the BBC News website, all there for you seven days a week. If you mist

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the programme any evening you can watch it later Ron on the BBC

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iPlayer a full thank you very

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