15/06/2017 The Papers


15/06/2017

No need to wait to see what's in the papers - tune in for a lively and informed conversation about the next day's headlines.


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thunderstorms. A lovely weekend in terms of sunshine coming up but

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strong sunshine and high levels of pollen, pretty uncomfortable.

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Hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the papers will be

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With me are the former Trader Minister Lord Digby Jones

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and the broadcaster and campaigner Henry Bonsu.

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Thank you very much were coming in at this late hour. Tomorrow's front

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pages: There's once again only one story

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on tomorrow's front pages, the Guardian reports that

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while relatives face an agonising wait for news, some victims

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of the fire may never be identified. The Daily Telegraph says residents

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of the burnt-out tower block demand answers as their sorrow

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turns to anger. The Metro focuses on calls

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for justice after lives were reduced to ashes, saying that those

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responsible should be arrested. The i carries photos

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of several of those missing, adding that public anger is growing

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at what it describes The Times reports that

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the United States had allegedly banned the type of cladding that

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encased the 24-storey block. And the Daily Mirror carries

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a photograph of the devastation at the building, describing it

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as a diabolical failing The Express carries a photo

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of distraught friends and relatives, estimating that more than 100

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people are feared dead. The Daily Mail describes the fire

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as the worst British disaster since Hillsborough, adding

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that the charity of ordinary Britons Let's start with the Telegraph,

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sorrow turns to anger, residents of burnt out tower block demand answers

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as it emerges a litany of failings led to the inferno that is now

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feared to have killed 100. The death toll is 17 at the moment, Digby, but

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we don't know how many are missing. The incredulity that this could

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happen in 2017. The first thing to say is Henry and I are known to have

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an interesting debate on this programme quite often and in the

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next human it's we might disagree about certain things but no viewer

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showed for a minute think we don't think this is just an absolutely

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appalling, dreadful human tragedy. Man-made tragedy. Don't mistake for

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a minute anything we say as not keeping that centre stage, this is

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appalling and it is a human tragedy more than anything else. One of the

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things, it is here when you're going through the headlines, we might

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never know how many people this has killed. We will end up with an

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estimate. The problem with fire is it destroys bodies. How do you know

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whether a friend had popped round to stay the night and all that kind of

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stuff? It is absolutely appalling. I can understand why sorrow and

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grief... It always needs outlets and one of the best ones you can find is

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anger, because it channels it, and you lash out understandably. What I

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would hope, and I don't like to hear this, and it's carried in the top

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end of the Times, here in the Telegraph, John McDonnell saying

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let's get 1 million out on the streets to get Theresa May to

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resign. Corbyn, let's seize the homes of the rich for the homeless.

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This is not a time, Mr Corbyn or Mr John McDonnell to start politicising

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this. I would ask, I wish that Theresa May had gone and hugged a

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victim just like Corbyn did, Corbyn was right there, I'm trying to

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depoliticise this but this isn't a time for political grandstanding.

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There isn't a time now for political grandstanding but there is anger and

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the political fallout will be apparent and people will want that

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anger to bring about meaningful change. People feel this didn't have

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to happen. It was forewarned, foreshadowed by a number of groups,

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not least the tenants' group in that particular building. People say they

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were threatened by the council, by the outsourcing agency that was

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managing the block. You can understand why sorrow has turned to

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anger because the warnings were there, the Telegraph calls it a

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litany of failings and people feel that actually the government isn't

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there for us, either at the local level, Kensington and Chelsea

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Council the national government. One of the things about living in the

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sixth richest country in the world is there's a contract between

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government and the people. We bathe laws and we pay our taxes and do the

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right thing and the government is therefore ask -- we of eight. It

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seems the government wasn't there for these people that there for us

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-- we Abe. The government cut costs and gave contracts to organisations

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that may have cut corners and compromised on safety. It says in

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this piece there had been no updates to building fire regulations in this

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country for four years even though similar infernos in Dubai and

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Melbourne had been seen, so the warnings were there. The Times, I

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don't think you like the essence of what he's saying but Corbyn says

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seize homes of the rich to house the Grenfell Tower homeless. Why doesn't

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he just say go into empty homes? Why doesn't he just say go into empty

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homes to put the homeless. Why does he have to say homes of the rich? In

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London, what this puts into perspective is the difference in

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housing standards and housing availability and in London you can

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drive down some very, very beautiful streets and no one is living in

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those homes. I bet I could show you loads of homes which aren't like

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that and they are still empty. He should have said go and commandeer

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luxury -- empty homes. He wants to politicise it. Why is it OK to seize

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anybody's home if it's a private property? Sees isn't the right word

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to use, you would sequester it for a short period of time -- seize. They

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have this problem, where can we find quick homes for a short period of

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time and you compensate the owner. There is a legal way of doing this.

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It happened in the first and Second World War. He didn't have to say

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rich people. He did so because he's a Marxist. He's got the wind in his

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sales and the bit between his teeth and he wants to seize the

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initiative. He's a Marxist. Forget Marxism, this is about being comfort

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in Chief, the president of the United States is the comfort in

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chief. A lot of people in the local area are angry that they know their

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situation and they know they have less than some of their neighbours

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and they feel this happened because they are poor and he's trying to

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capitalise on that, you may like it because these things are political

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because of the result of council level decisions. On the Guardian

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front page... Not yet. There's a process here, David. David Lammy is

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saying, and he's right, don't let people tell you this is a tragedy,

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it is a monstrous crime, corporate manslaughter, they were warned by

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the residents and they looked the other way. There is a criminal

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enquiries. Looking at the Times, it said the contractors sought a more

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cheaper and combustible version of the cladding, you have a place built

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in accordance with regulation. If you've got yourself one set of

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stairs and you've got yourself one load of cladding, this is not

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businesses' necessarily fault, this is the regulator's Bob, this could

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be regulation and politicians in the dock -- fault. Nobody wants to Lynch

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businesspeople. Come on! Let's understand how regulations are

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formulated at both local and national level, there's normally a

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consultation very often lobbying sometimes by business people and

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special interests and as a result you get to a consensus whereby you

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introduce regulations which may compromise safety and it seems to

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have been the case here. I agree, but it doesn't have to be business.

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On the Times, US ban tower cladding, a report in the Times saying this

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particular type of cladding with a polythene core can't be used in the

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States it says on here, on buildings taller than 40 feet, which isn't

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very high. It's the gap. It acts as a chimney, a funnel, it sucks up the

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heat. Pat and I were in Dubai... Your wife? On the night when that

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tower went up around 18 months ago and we weren't far away from it and

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it went up like a torch and the aluminium on the outside, banned in

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America but still allowed here, was there, I was amazed at the speed of

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it, it went up like a Roman candle. I think the difference is they went

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up on the outside and the central Hall was all right. Word here, no

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sprinklers, one exit. One staircase. This is a massive failure of

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regulation and I am not for a minute saying an enquiry will decide about

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the implementation of that regulation, but residents were

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saying where are the sprinklers? Everyone is quoting from that famous

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blog. Let's not round up the usual suspects before we have an enquiry.

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The Daily Mail are asking three questions, green targets to blame

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for the fire tragedy, why were families told to stay in their flats

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and how money tinderbox towers are there? The thinking was each flat

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would be protected for at least an hour by which time you will be

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reached but the stairwell was so full of smoke that access was

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estate in 2009 in Camberwell, I saw estate in 2009 in Camberwell, I saw

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your good interview with Curt Barling, a special correspondent for

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BBC London, and there were a raft of recommendations that were made that

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landed on the desks of many ministers including Eric Pickles and

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nobody did anything. Why were families told to stay in their

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flats? In the Camberwell estate case, people who stayed in died,

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those who left got out and survive to this day, how many more tinderbox

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towers are there? We have 700 in London above ten storeys. What about

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Birmingham and Manchester and other places? I'm not sure about green

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targets to blame. We are not sure about these questions. I have a mate

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who was in 9/11, he was actually in the print hours when it happens

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below with the -- he was actually in the twin towers below where the

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aircraft hit. He met a firefighter when he was coming down and he told

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him to go back. He saw a policeman further down because his instincts

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told him to carry on and he hit him and he is alive today. The tragic

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thing is there are people who talk to family and friends from around

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1:15 a.m., they were told to stay, they were told to stay there because

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in countries in Britain where you think you are safe, the government

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or somebody like the fire brigade will come and save you, tragedies

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like this happen in the developing world, in Nigeria and Bangladesh

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with Rana Plaza but no, it can happen in Britain as well. It's

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Achin Lee what the Mail does good and bad, first one, green targets to

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blame -- it's actually. The middle one, being told to stay in the

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flats, that's what we've talked about, but how many more tinderbox

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towers are there? All over Britain, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool,

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Newcastle, there will be people going to bed in the 23rd floor of...

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They will be thinking, we've got cladding on the outside. This should

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be done overnight. Start the process now. Find the money, just like

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during the war, find the money. I totally agree. Moving onto the Daily

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Mirror, criminal it says, a picture of... You can't believe the pictures

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that we saw of that tower, absolutely on fire. The headline is

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talking about 30 years ago Britain turned its back on social housing.

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Profit mattered more than putting roots of people's heads. There will

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be so many potential failures the enquiry will need to at -- roofs.

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This is an existential thing people have been talking about. People have

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been saying today they feel ill at ease, we have the unexpected

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election outcome, terrorist attacks, what's going on in the country? That

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picture sums it up. You might expect me to say this but they are right in

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the Mirror headline except for one word, it isn't profit, it is cost.

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Two sides of the same coin. What they did was, Tony Blair... Isn't it

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about accountability? It's not profit, though, it's about the cost

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and I think social housing, the headline is right, I'm not

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disagreeing, it's not that local authorities and planning authorities

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and central government said we would make money, that's profit, it's

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about cutting costs. I'm not saying it is right... But by doing that the

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responsibility is pastor... They wanted money to be spent elsewhere.

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It is outsourcing to businesses that want to make a profit. They spent

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less money on social housing and its polity and they spent more money on

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something else and it's not a profit issue -- policy. The Mirror is a

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socialist newspaper and they use profit to denigrate it, it is to do

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with cost and priority. Profit is part of the chain. No, it's not! Who

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works with the public sector? Private business. It is a policy

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decision! And one a minute. Please don't speak across each other --

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hang on a minute. There was significant profit to be made by

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using a cheaper form of cladding so it was a business decision by

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someone, here's the budget we have from the Royal Borough of

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Kensington, if we use expensive cladding then we will only make

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profit X, if we use a cheaper one that passes regulations we will make

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more profit, they aren't thinking about safety. Isn't that the role of

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a planning regulator and the building inspector that says you're

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using the wrong cladding? It is all of them and they will all be in the

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dock. It isn't profit, it is cost. Profit motivates. It is the

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demonisation of capitalism and that's very wrong.

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The Daily Telegraph, people who do not know where their relatives are.

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Similar on the Guardian. People out on the street with photographs. This

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is one of the terrible things in situations like this. You think

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there is someone you can talk to and help you co-ordinate your search.

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After some of the terrible terrorist outrages, or is someone you can go

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to. I am Person X and this is a photograph of my relative. And there

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have been things set up to put things together. A 1-stop shop to

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help people. The answer is they are going to get is this awful word,

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don't know. The fireman, the police meant can honestly say, they do not

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know and there is a chance they will never know. Unfortunately, in

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moments like these usethe there is not a system like this. You can see

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all of the front pages on the BBC News website. If you have missed the

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programme you can watch it later. Thank you very much. Now it is time

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for meet the author.

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