15/06/2017 The Papers


No need to wait to see what's in the papers - tune in for a lively and informed conversation about the next day's headlines.

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thunderstorms. A lovely weekend in terms of sunshine coming up but


strong sunshine and high levels of pollen, pretty uncomfortable.


Hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the papers will be


With me are the former Trader Minister Lord Digby Jones


and the broadcaster and campaigner Henry Bonsu.


Thank you very much were coming in at this late hour. Tomorrow's front


pages: There's once again only one story


on tomorrow's front pages, the Guardian reports that


while relatives face an agonising wait for news, some victims


of the fire may never be identified. The Daily Telegraph says residents


of the burnt-out tower block demand answers as their sorrow


turns to anger. The Metro focuses on calls


for justice after lives were reduced to ashes, saying that those


responsible should be arrested. The i carries photos


of several of those missing, adding that public anger is growing


at what it describes The Times reports that


the United States had allegedly banned the type of cladding that


encased the 24-storey block. And the Daily Mirror carries


a photograph of the devastation at the building, describing it


as a diabolical failing The Express carries a photo


of distraught friends and relatives, estimating that more than 100


people are feared dead. The Daily Mail describes the fire


as the worst British disaster since Hillsborough, adding


that the charity of ordinary Britons Let's start with the Telegraph,


sorrow turns to anger, residents of burnt out tower block demand answers


as it emerges a litany of failings led to the inferno that is now


feared to have killed 100. The death toll is 17 at the moment, Digby, but


we don't know how many are missing. The incredulity that this could


happen in 2017. The first thing to say is Henry and I are known to have


an interesting debate on this programme quite often and in the


next human it's we might disagree about certain things but no viewer


showed for a minute think we don't think this is just an absolutely


appalling, dreadful human tragedy. Man-made tragedy. Don't mistake for


a minute anything we say as not keeping that centre stage, this is


appalling and it is a human tragedy more than anything else. One of the


things, it is here when you're going through the headlines, we might


never know how many people this has killed. We will end up with an


estimate. The problem with fire is it destroys bodies. How do you know


whether a friend had popped round to stay the night and all that kind of


stuff? It is absolutely appalling. I can understand why sorrow and


grief... It always needs outlets and one of the best ones you can find is


anger, because it channels it, and you lash out understandably. What I


would hope, and I don't like to hear this, and it's carried in the top


end of the Times, here in the Telegraph, John McDonnell saying


let's get 1 million out on the streets to get Theresa May to


resign. Corbyn, let's seize the homes of the rich for the homeless.


This is not a time, Mr Corbyn or Mr John McDonnell to start politicising


this. I would ask, I wish that Theresa May had gone and hugged a


victim just like Corbyn did, Corbyn was right there, I'm trying to


depoliticise this but this isn't a time for political grandstanding.


There isn't a time now for political grandstanding but there is anger and


the political fallout will be apparent and people will want that


anger to bring about meaningful change. People feel this didn't have


to happen. It was forewarned, foreshadowed by a number of groups,


not least the tenants' group in that particular building. People say they


were threatened by the council, by the outsourcing agency that was


managing the block. You can understand why sorrow has turned to


anger because the warnings were there, the Telegraph calls it a


litany of failings and people feel that actually the government isn't


there for us, either at the local level, Kensington and Chelsea


Council the national government. One of the things about living in the


sixth richest country in the world is there's a contract between


government and the people. We bathe laws and we pay our taxes and do the


right thing and the government is therefore ask -- we of eight. It


seems the government wasn't there for these people that there for us


-- we Abe. The government cut costs and gave contracts to organisations


that may have cut corners and compromised on safety. It says in


this piece there had been no updates to building fire regulations in this


country for four years even though similar infernos in Dubai and


Melbourne had been seen, so the warnings were there. The Times, I


don't think you like the essence of what he's saying but Corbyn says


seize homes of the rich to house the Grenfell Tower homeless. Why doesn't


he just say go into empty homes? Why doesn't he just say go into empty


homes to put the homeless. Why does he have to say homes of the rich? In


London, what this puts into perspective is the difference in


housing standards and housing availability and in London you can


drive down some very, very beautiful streets and no one is living in


those homes. I bet I could show you loads of homes which aren't like


that and they are still empty. He should have said go and commandeer


luxury -- empty homes. He wants to politicise it. Why is it OK to seize


anybody's home if it's a private property? Sees isn't the right word


to use, you would sequester it for a short period of time -- seize. They


have this problem, where can we find quick homes for a short period of


time and you compensate the owner. There is a legal way of doing this.


It happened in the first and Second World War. He didn't have to say


rich people. He did so because he's a Marxist. He's got the wind in his


sales and the bit between his teeth and he wants to seize the


initiative. He's a Marxist. Forget Marxism, this is about being comfort


in Chief, the president of the United States is the comfort in


chief. A lot of people in the local area are angry that they know their


situation and they know they have less than some of their neighbours


and they feel this happened because they are poor and he's trying to


capitalise on that, you may like it because these things are political


because of the result of council level decisions. On the Guardian


front page... Not yet. There's a process here, David. David Lammy is


saying, and he's right, don't let people tell you this is a tragedy,


it is a monstrous crime, corporate manslaughter, they were warned by


the residents and they looked the other way. There is a criminal


enquiries. Looking at the Times, it said the contractors sought a more


cheaper and combustible version of the cladding, you have a place built


in accordance with regulation. If you've got yourself one set of


stairs and you've got yourself one load of cladding, this is not


businesses' necessarily fault, this is the regulator's Bob, this could


be regulation and politicians in the dock -- fault. Nobody wants to Lynch


businesspeople. Come on! Let's understand how regulations are


formulated at both local and national level, there's normally a


consultation very often lobbying sometimes by business people and


special interests and as a result you get to a consensus whereby you


introduce regulations which may compromise safety and it seems to


have been the case here. I agree, but it doesn't have to be business.


On the Times, US ban tower cladding, a report in the Times saying this


particular type of cladding with a polythene core can't be used in the


States it says on here, on buildings taller than 40 feet, which isn't


very high. It's the gap. It acts as a chimney, a funnel, it sucks up the


heat. Pat and I were in Dubai... Your wife? On the night when that


tower went up around 18 months ago and we weren't far away from it and


it went up like a torch and the aluminium on the outside, banned in


America but still allowed here, was there, I was amazed at the speed of


it, it went up like a Roman candle. I think the difference is they went


up on the outside and the central Hall was all right. Word here, no


sprinklers, one exit. One staircase. This is a massive failure of


regulation and I am not for a minute saying an enquiry will decide about


the implementation of that regulation, but residents were


saying where are the sprinklers? Everyone is quoting from that famous


blog. Let's not round up the usual suspects before we have an enquiry.


The Daily Mail are asking three questions, green targets to blame


for the fire tragedy, why were families told to stay in their flats


and how money tinderbox towers are there? The thinking was each flat


would be protected for at least an hour by which time you will be


reached but the stairwell was so full of smoke that access was


estate in 2009 in Camberwell, I saw estate in 2009 in Camberwell, I saw


your good interview with Curt Barling, a special correspondent for


BBC London, and there were a raft of recommendations that were made that


landed on the desks of many ministers including Eric Pickles and


nobody did anything. Why were families told to stay in their


flats? In the Camberwell estate case, people who stayed in died,


those who left got out and survive to this day, how many more tinderbox


towers are there? We have 700 in London above ten storeys. What about


Birmingham and Manchester and other places? I'm not sure about green


targets to blame. We are not sure about these questions. I have a mate


who was in 9/11, he was actually in the print hours when it happens


below with the -- he was actually in the twin towers below where the


aircraft hit. He met a firefighter when he was coming down and he told


him to go back. He saw a policeman further down because his instincts


told him to carry on and he hit him and he is alive today. The tragic


thing is there are people who talk to family and friends from around


1:15 a.m., they were told to stay, they were told to stay there because


in countries in Britain where you think you are safe, the government


or somebody like the fire brigade will come and save you, tragedies


like this happen in the developing world, in Nigeria and Bangladesh


with Rana Plaza but no, it can happen in Britain as well. It's


Achin Lee what the Mail does good and bad, first one, green targets to


blame -- it's actually. The middle one, being told to stay in the


flats, that's what we've talked about, but how many more tinderbox


towers are there? All over Britain, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool,


Newcastle, there will be people going to bed in the 23rd floor of...


They will be thinking, we've got cladding on the outside. This should


be done overnight. Start the process now. Find the money, just like


during the war, find the money. I totally agree. Moving onto the Daily


Mirror, criminal it says, a picture of... You can't believe the pictures


that we saw of that tower, absolutely on fire. The headline is


talking about 30 years ago Britain turned its back on social housing.


Profit mattered more than putting roots of people's heads. There will


be so many potential failures the enquiry will need to at -- roofs.


This is an existential thing people have been talking about. People have


been saying today they feel ill at ease, we have the unexpected


election outcome, terrorist attacks, what's going on in the country? That


picture sums it up. You might expect me to say this but they are right in


the Mirror headline except for one word, it isn't profit, it is cost.


Two sides of the same coin. What they did was, Tony Blair... Isn't it


about accountability? It's not profit, though, it's about the cost


and I think social housing, the headline is right, I'm not


disagreeing, it's not that local authorities and planning authorities


and central government said we would make money, that's profit, it's


about cutting costs. I'm not saying it is right... But by doing that the


responsibility is pastor... They wanted money to be spent elsewhere.


It is outsourcing to businesses that want to make a profit. They spent


less money on social housing and its polity and they spent more money on


something else and it's not a profit issue -- policy. The Mirror is a


socialist newspaper and they use profit to denigrate it, it is to do


with cost and priority. Profit is part of the chain. No, it's not! Who


works with the public sector? Private business. It is a policy


decision! And one a minute. Please don't speak across each other --


hang on a minute. There was significant profit to be made by


using a cheaper form of cladding so it was a business decision by


someone, here's the budget we have from the Royal Borough of


Kensington, if we use expensive cladding then we will only make


profit X, if we use a cheaper one that passes regulations we will make


more profit, they aren't thinking about safety. Isn't that the role of


a planning regulator and the building inspector that says you're


using the wrong cladding? It is all of them and they will all be in the


dock. It isn't profit, it is cost. Profit motivates. It is the


demonisation of capitalism and that's very wrong.


The Daily Telegraph, people who do not know where their relatives are.


Similar on the Guardian. People out on the street with photographs. This


is one of the terrible things in situations like this. You think


there is someone you can talk to and help you co-ordinate your search.


After some of the terrible terrorist outrages, or is someone you can go


to. I am Person X and this is a photograph of my relative. And there


have been things set up to put things together. A 1-stop shop to


help people. The answer is they are going to get is this awful word,


don't know. The fireman, the police meant can honestly say, they do not


know and there is a chance they will never know. Unfortunately, in


moments like these usethe there is not a system like this. You can see


all of the front pages on the BBC News website. If you have missed the


programme you can watch it later. Thank you very much. Now it is time


for meet the author.


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