15/06/2017 The Papers

thunderstorms. A lovely weekend in terms of sunshine coming up but

strong sunshine and high levels of pollen, pretty uncomfortable.

Hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the papers will be

With me are the former Trader Minister Lord Digby Jones

and the broadcaster and campaigner Henry Bonsu.

Thank you very much were coming in at this late hour. Tomorrow's front

pages: There's once again only one story

on tomorrow's front pages, the Guardian reports that

while relatives face an agonising wait for news, some victims

of the fire may never be identified. The Daily Telegraph says residents

of the burnt-out tower block demand answers as their sorrow

turns to anger. The Metro focuses on calls

for justice after lives were reduced to ashes, saying that those

responsible should be arrested. The i carries photos

of several of those missing, adding that public anger is growing

at what it describes The Times reports that

the United States had allegedly banned the type of cladding that

encased the 24-storey block. And the Daily Mirror carries

a photograph of the devastation at the building, describing it

as a diabolical failing The Express carries a photo

of distraught friends and relatives, estimating that more than 100

people are feared dead. The Daily Mail describes the fire

as the worst British disaster since Hillsborough, adding

that the charity of ordinary Britons Let's start with the Telegraph,

sorrow turns to anger, residents of burnt out tower block demand answers

as it emerges a litany of failings led to the inferno that is now

feared to have killed 100. The death toll is 17 at the moment, Digby, but

we don't know how many are missing. The incredulity that this could

happen in 2017. The first thing to say is Henry and I are known to have

an interesting debate on this programme quite often and in the

next human it's we might disagree about certain things but no viewer

showed for a minute think we don't think this is just an absolutely

appalling, dreadful human tragedy. Man-made tragedy. Don't mistake for

a minute anything we say as not keeping that centre stage, this is

appalling and it is a human tragedy more than anything else. One of the

things, it is here when you're going through the headlines, we might

never know how many people this has killed. We will end up with an

estimate. The problem with fire is it destroys bodies. How do you know

whether a friend had popped round to stay the night and all that kind of

stuff? It is absolutely appalling. I can understand why sorrow and

grief... It always needs outlets and one of the best ones you can find is

anger, because it channels it, and you lash out understandably. What I

would hope, and I don't like to hear this, and it's carried in the top

end of the Times, here in the Telegraph, John McDonnell saying

let's get 1 million out on the streets to get Theresa May to

resign. Corbyn, let's seize the homes of the rich for the homeless.

This is not a time, Mr Corbyn or Mr John McDonnell to start politicising

this. I would ask, I wish that Theresa May had gone and hugged a

victim just like Corbyn did, Corbyn was right there, I'm trying to

depoliticise this but this isn't a time for political grandstanding.

There isn't a time now for political grandstanding but there is anger and

the political fallout will be apparent and people will want that

anger to bring about meaningful change. People feel this didn't have

to happen. It was forewarned, foreshadowed by a number of groups,

not least the tenants' group in that particular building. People say they

were threatened by the council, by the outsourcing agency that was

managing the block. You can understand why sorrow has turned to

anger because the warnings were there, the Telegraph calls it a

litany of failings and people feel that actually the government isn't

there for us, either at the local level, Kensington and Chelsea

Council the national government. One of the things about living in the

sixth richest country in the world is there's a contract between

government and the people. We bathe laws and we pay our taxes and do the

right thing and the government is therefore ask -- we of eight. It

seems the government wasn't there for these people that there for us

-- we Abe. The government cut costs and gave contracts to organisations

that may have cut corners and compromised on safety. It says in

this piece there had been no updates to building fire regulations in this

country for four years even though similar infernos in Dubai and

Melbourne had been seen, so the warnings were there. The Times, I

don't think you like the essence of what he's saying but Corbyn says

seize homes of the rich to house the Grenfell Tower homeless. Why doesn't

he just say go into empty homes? Why doesn't he just say go into empty

homes to put the homeless. Why does he have to say homes of the rich? In

London, what this puts into perspective is the difference in

housing standards and housing availability and in London you can

drive down some very, very beautiful streets and no one is living in

those homes. I bet I could show you loads of homes which aren't like

that and they are still empty. He should have said go and commandeer

luxury -- empty homes. He wants to politicise it. Why is it OK to seize

anybody's home if it's a private property? Sees isn't the right word

to use, you would sequester it for a short period of time -- seize. They

have this problem, where can we find quick homes for a short period of

time and you compensate the owner. There is a legal way of doing this.

It happened in the first and Second World War. He didn't have to say

rich people. He did so because he's a Marxist. He's got the wind in his

sales and the bit between his teeth and he wants to seize the

initiative. He's a Marxist. Forget Marxism, this is about being comfort

in Chief, the president of the United States is the comfort in

chief. A lot of people in the local area are angry that they know their

situation and they know they have less than some of their neighbours

and they feel this happened because they are poor and he's trying to

capitalise on that, you may like it because these things are political

because of the result of council level decisions. On the Guardian

front page... Not yet. There's a process here, David. David Lammy is

saying, and he's right, don't let people tell you this is a tragedy,

it is a monstrous crime, corporate manslaughter, they were warned by

the residents and they looked the other way. There is a criminal

enquiries. Looking at the Times, it said the contractors sought a more

cheaper and combustible version of the cladding, you have a place built

in accordance with regulation. If you've got yourself one set of

stairs and you've got yourself one load of cladding, this is not

businesses' necessarily fault, this is the regulator's Bob, this could

be regulation and politicians in the dock -- fault. Nobody wants to Lynch

businesspeople. Come on! Let's understand how regulations are

formulated at both local and national level, there's normally a

consultation very often lobbying sometimes by business people and

special interests and as a result you get to a consensus whereby you

introduce regulations which may compromise safety and it seems to

have been the case here. I agree, but it doesn't have to be business.

On the Times, US ban tower cladding, a report in the Times saying this

particular type of cladding with a polythene core can't be used in the

States it says on here, on buildings taller than 40 feet, which isn't

very high. It's the gap. It acts as a chimney, a funnel, it sucks up the

heat. Pat and I were in Dubai... Your wife? On the night when that

tower went up around 18 months ago and we weren't far away from it and

it went up like a torch and the aluminium on the outside, banned in

America but still allowed here, was there, I was amazed at the speed of

it, it went up like a Roman candle. I think the difference is they went

up on the outside and the central Hall was all right. Word here, no

sprinklers, one exit. One staircase. This is a massive failure of

regulation and I am not for a minute saying an enquiry will decide about

the implementation of that regulation, but residents were

saying where are the sprinklers? Everyone is quoting from that famous

blog. Let's not round up the usual suspects before we have an enquiry.

The Daily Mail are asking three questions, green targets to blame

for the fire tragedy, why were families told to stay in their flats

and how money tinderbox towers are there? The thinking was each flat

would be protected for at least an hour by which time you will be

reached but the stairwell was so full of smoke that access was

estate in 2009 in Camberwell, I saw estate in 2009 in Camberwell, I saw

your good interview with Curt Barling, a special correspondent for

BBC London, and there were a raft of recommendations that were made that

landed on the desks of many ministers including Eric Pickles and

nobody did anything. Why were families told to stay in their

flats? In the Camberwell estate case, people who stayed in died,

those who left got out and survive to this day, how many more tinderbox

towers are there? We have 700 in London above ten storeys. What about

Birmingham and Manchester and other places? I'm not sure about green

targets to blame. We are not sure about these questions. I have a mate

who was in 9/11, he was actually in the print hours when it happens

below with the -- he was actually in the twin towers below where the

aircraft hit. He met a firefighter when he was coming down and he told

him to go back. He saw a policeman further down because his instincts

told him to carry on and he hit him and he is alive today. The tragic

thing is there are people who talk to family and friends from around

1:15 a.m., they were told to stay, they were told to stay there because

in countries in Britain where you think you are safe, the government

or somebody like the fire brigade will come and save you, tragedies

like this happen in the developing world, in Nigeria and Bangladesh

with Rana Plaza but no, it can happen in Britain as well. It's

Achin Lee what the Mail does good and bad, first one, green targets to

blame -- it's actually. The middle one, being told to stay in the

flats, that's what we've talked about, but how many more tinderbox

towers are there? All over Britain, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Liverpool,

Newcastle, there will be people going to bed in the 23rd floor of...

They will be thinking, we've got cladding on the outside. This should

be done overnight. Start the process now. Find the money, just like

during the war, find the money. I totally agree. Moving onto the Daily

Mirror, criminal it says, a picture of... You can't believe the pictures

that we saw of that tower, absolutely on fire. The headline is

talking about 30 years ago Britain turned its back on social housing.

Profit mattered more than putting roots of people's heads. There will

be so many potential failures the enquiry will need to at -- roofs.

This is an existential thing people have been talking about. People have

been saying today they feel ill at ease, we have the unexpected

election outcome, terrorist attacks, what's going on in the country? That

picture sums it up. You might expect me to say this but they are right in

the Mirror headline except for one word, it isn't profit, it is cost.

Two sides of the same coin. What they did was, Tony Blair... Isn't it

about accountability? It's not profit, though, it's about the cost

and I think social housing, the headline is right, I'm not

disagreeing, it's not that local authorities and planning authorities

and central government said we would make money, that's profit, it's

about cutting costs. I'm not saying it is right... But by doing that the

responsibility is pastor... They wanted money to be spent elsewhere.

It is outsourcing to businesses that want to make a profit. They spent

less money on social housing and its polity and they spent more money on

something else and it's not a profit issue -- policy. The Mirror is a

socialist newspaper and they use profit to denigrate it, it is to do

with cost and priority. Profit is part of the chain. No, it's not! Who

works with the public sector? Private business. It is a policy

decision! And one a minute. Please don't speak across each other --

hang on a minute. There was significant profit to be made by

using a cheaper form of cladding so it was a business decision by

someone, here's the budget we have from the Royal Borough of

Kensington, if we use expensive cladding then we will only make

profit X, if we use a cheaper one that passes regulations we will make

more profit, they aren't thinking about safety. Isn't that the role of

a planning regulator and the building inspector that says you're

using the wrong cladding? It is all of them and they will all be in the

dock. It isn't profit, it is cost. Profit motivates. It is the

demonisation of capitalism and that's very wrong.

The Daily Telegraph, people who do not know where their relatives are.

Similar on the Guardian. People out on the street with photographs. This

is one of the terrible things in situations like this. You think

there is someone you can talk to and help you co-ordinate your search.

After some of the terrible terrorist outrages, or is someone you can go

to. I am Person X and this is a photograph of my relative. And there

have been things set up to put things together. A 1-stop shop to

help people. The answer is they are going to get is this awful word,

don't know. The fireman, the police meant can honestly say, they do not

know and there is a chance they will never know. Unfortunately, in

moments like these usethe there is not a system like this. You can see

all of the front pages on the BBC News website. If you have missed the

programme you can watch it later. Thank you very much. Now it is time

for meet the author.