23/07/2017 The Papers


23/07/2017

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


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signing of Brazilian full-back Denilo. He signed for ?26.5 million.

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That's all the sport now. Hello, and welcome to our look ahead

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to what the the papers With me are Martin Bentham,

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home affairs editor at the London Evening Standard,

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and the journalist and We start with The Observer,

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which leads with claims that the Brexit Secretary,

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David Davis, is the preferred choice among Tory members to replace

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Prime Minister Theresa May. The Sunday Express features a family

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photograph of Prince Harry and his mother, Diana the Princess

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of Wales, with the headline The Telegraph has the same story,

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along with reports that more than 40 female BBC presenters have signed

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an open letter to the director-general

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demanding equal pay. The Sunday Times says men and women

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will be able to change their gender legally without a doctor's diagnosis

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under government plans. The Star leads with Princes Harry

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and William's last conversation The royal story also dominates

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the front of the Mail on Sunday. And ahead of the 20th

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anniversary of her death, Princes Harry and William pay

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tribute to their mother Let us begin with that story that is

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on most of the front pages this morning. The story of Princes

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William and Harry talking about the death of their mother. You can

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believe it, 20 years ago now. They've spoken in a documentary. The

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Sunday Mirror says last call with mum haunts us. It's a poignant

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picture, isn't it? Yes, the picture is very poignant. It's amazing to

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see all these pictures of her again after 20 years. It's hard to imagine

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it's been that long but of course it will have felt that long for her

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sons. This is one of the elements of the story that the newspapers have

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focused on, this last phone call that she made to her kids when they

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were in the middle of playing, and didn't necessarily want to talk to

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her that day. It's turned out to be their last call. Of course it wasn't

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our fault and of course anyone who has lost someone will recognise that

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thing of the last conversation and had you known what you might have

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said differently. It is what comes across from the coverage that we are

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seeing in all of the Sunday papers, they've all got something about her,

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this very, very loving and also very cheeky humorous mother. She really

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wanted her kids to have fun and to be connected to their emotions, and

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to experience life in a normal way. She would take them to have burgers,

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she would take them to the cinema. What did she say? It's all right to

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be naughty as long as you don't get caught, which is a good life lesson.

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What do you make of the coverage? I think it's all you just said, and

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the last element of her being fun. I'm sure there were times when she

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was stricter! But there are other stories of her apparently pitting

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sweets down their socks when they went to play football and all those

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things. It does bring across this warming vision of her as a very

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engaging, very hands-on, fun mother to be with. And of course, the boys

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missing her presence and talking about, certainly William has got his

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children and they are missing her as a grandmother as well. Although he

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tells the amusing story of thinking what would it be like if she were

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here, should probably come in at the wrong time and read them up before

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bath time and disappeared to leave us to put them to bed! Of course

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they are all very nice stories and it's terribly sad but they lost her

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in the way that they did. Whatever you think about the royal family,

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this is two grown men talking openly about their emotions, and also to

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members of the Royal family, it's quite unusual, isn't it? Yes. I

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think this cements the shift in style of the Royal family, that

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these young royals have brought forward. They are much more talking

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about emotional life. In the past they've talked about mental health

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issues, and raised that issued a public debate in an important way.

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Of course, it's a really important thing to do stigmatise the

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perceptions of mental health. -- do stigmatise the perceptions of mental

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health. Prince Harry especially has spoken about how difficult the

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grieving process was. Initially they didn't talk about it but they found

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it was much better to talk about it and discuss it. I think it is a

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really useful contribution to society to talk about the grieving

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process. Especially in the sense that they are public figures. Even

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when they were children, by definition they were public figures

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and everything was in the spotlight. Her death was an incredibly massive

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world event in terms of publicity and attention. It was doubly hard

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for them to cope with it. He says he's only cried twice since which is

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quite interesting. Yes, it does bring it back. Another thing is that

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for a lot of people, my elder daughter was born about two months

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after her death. The younger generation, those people who were

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under 25 or perhaps slightly older will only remember her as a figure

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in history rather than a living person that we can remember her as.

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It's interesting perhaps for them to understand a bit about her and what

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she was for the Royal family and for British life in the period before

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she died. As we say, this story is on the front of almost all of the

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papers, and many pages inside as well. Let's move on to The Sunday

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Times. A picture of Prince William and Harry. They actually lead on a

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different story. The Tories promote right to choose your own sex. Tell

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us more about this. This is about increasing emphasis on transgender

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people and, in essence, talking about a reform that happened in 2004

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to allow you more easily theoretically to change your gender.

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What the government is looking at here in the consultation is to say

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the process perhaps needs to be refined further to make it less

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bureaucratic. There have been some complaints it is too inquisitive and

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intrusive, and that actually in essence it should be a bit simpler

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to go through the process and change your gender identity. There are one

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or two other things here. For example saying that possibly you

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might be able to class yourself as an ex-on the passport. That might be

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more tricky overseas where you have to declare whether you are male or

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female. There may be one to practical issues to look at in terms

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of this but I think the broad thrust of it is that it makes entire sense

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for dealing with the difficulty of a fairly small number of people, but a

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number of people, and making it easier for them to live their lives.

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Is this an issue that Justine Greening has wanted to get to grips

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with? This is part of a whole series of moves that she describes as a

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step forward. After equality for women and the legislation of

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same-sex marriage in 2013, this is the next phase. And so these

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transgender reforms are part of a wider policy. She also has the

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desire to tackle homophobic bullying of children. She is introducing

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measures that will increase... She's trying to stop the term gay being

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used as a term of abuse, to taunt schoolchildren. I think that is a

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really important thing to be doing. Homophobic bullying is still a

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really big problem in schools. It has gone down but it's still... It's

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something like 45% of children will still experience that. No child

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should have to go through that, no child should have two experience

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that in a school environment which should be safe. There is a

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correlation as well for children that it affects their mental health.

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Of course it would. The instances of self harm amongst LGBT children is

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an acceptably high. Suicides as well. It's really positive move to

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be taking this as seriously as it seems they intend to be. It is

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interesting The Sunday Times makes the point that Justine Greening is

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in a relationship with a woman, whether that informs a policy not

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but that is according to The Sunday Times. It shouldn't do, should it?

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Given that one of her colleagues is a gay man and rights in The Mail on

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Sunday about how the change in legislation and cultural attitudes,

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which actually is the most important thing. It's what you were talking

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about with bullying, schools now in general would seek to stop people

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using those terms, and of course they should do that but the ultimate

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message is an educational one. If you think about how society has

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changed, legislation plays one part in it but actually the ultimate need

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is for societal attitudes to change to make people more tolerant. I

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think that has happened in general, it needs to go further. You

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mentioned equality and that brings us on to a topic that has been

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rumbling on since Wednesday when the BBC announced some of the pay of

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some of its top presenters. The Sunday Telegraph leads with the

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story revolves of the BBC women. Rachel, how are they revolting? It

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must have been quite a difficult week for the BBC. These women,

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rightly, have put together an open letter to the director general

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saying you told us that you would sort this out by 2020. Clearly you

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need to sort it out now. Especially now that the extent of this problem

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has come to light. I think that's the thing that is so striking and

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has understandably caused so much anger. It is so extreme. The pay

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differentials are so stark, and some of the interviews over the last few

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days and today in The Sunday Times with female presenters saying that

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we were fobbed off so long, we were told it was fine, but it was being

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dealt with and we weren't being paid less or much less and actually

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turned out to be a huge life. -- lie. I hope it is successful. We

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shouldn't lose sight of the fact this also highlights for the BBC, it

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seems like decisions are made by a white, male, Oxbridge educated club

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who are giving each other jobs. That is going to have an impact for women

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but also for minorities. There is an impact on people from different

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class backgrounds. Ultimately, it has an impact on the output. The BBC

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then doesn't represent the society that it's supposed to be serving. I

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think that is a much bigger problem that should be addressed. Martin,

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this letter has been signed by some of the biggest names that work for

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the BBC. People like Clare Balding, Jane Garvey. But in the letter, they

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also talk about rank and file staff members as well. This isn't just

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about the people that they see on their TVs and here on the radio, is

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it? Not at all. I was going to ask you to pay me some money not to ask

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you what you think about this but you probably aren't paid enough!

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LAUGHTER That's probably a good job! There is an issue there. They are

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all paid very well across the board, there is a gender pay gap there but

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one of my friends who works in the BBC made the point that actually

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there is a great cliff edge below the ?150,000. A lot of people in the

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BBC aren't paid very much, so it's not as if money is awash for the

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lower down... Some people being paid as little as ?18,000. These figures

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are not typical. There is an issue there as well about proportionality

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of the pay given to some of the very high earners. You can look at those

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figures and question whether the so-called marketplace is really

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forcing those pay levels to the levels they are at, and so on. There

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is definitely a concern and they need to address the gender issue and

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perhaps the issue further down the scale, and actually as a mail I

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would say any rank and file man who isn't part of this favoured group

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can probably forget any chance of a pay rise for the next 5-10 years!

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They may then know how the women have felt for quite some time!

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LAUGHTER Let's move on to The Observer. Normal service resumed,

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they've got politics as their lead. Rachel, Tory members turn to David

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Davis in battle to succeed May. It appears David Davis the Brexit

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Secretary is ahead in a party survey, what is this survey? This is

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obviously to replace Theresa May, when? That is the big question,

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when. This is a survey of 1000 Tory members. This is rank and file

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Conservative members. David Davis came out the favourite, but he only

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had one fifth of the party supporting him. After that was Boris

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Johnson. In third place, Jacob Rees-Mogg. Maybe Mogg mania isn't

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going to be the thing it was tipped to be. There is no overwhelming

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support for anybody and that is the problem for the Conservatives. They

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have a leader who has been so damaged, she's lost all credibility

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in the election, she is a toxic brand, and yet they have nobody that

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they can find to step in her place. Meanwhile they are consumed by this

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infighting and bickering because of the huge problem that this has

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presented the party with. Apparently an irreconcilable problem at the

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moment. According to The Observer the search is on for a surprise

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candidate. Do you have any inside knowledge? Not to that surprise

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candidate might be. That's the issue. There have been various names

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touted from the middle ranks but of course there are two problems. One

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is the instability that would be caused by replacing the Prime

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Minister. That is an issue. Of course lots of people think she's

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probably not able to stay on for a great length of time. Certainly not

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until the next election. That transitional period inevitably is

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potentially destabilising. That is a problem. David Davis would be the

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obvious candidate because I think people would, broadly speaking,

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unite around him. But you've still got to get to the point of having a

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Prime Minister, although the system doesn't require you to be elected,

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but you get that criticism that he hasn't gone to the electorate.

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Obviously they don't want another general election. This story will go

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and go and go until Theresa May disappears. In whatever form she

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does. Clearly the summer is coming up so there will be lots of talk

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about it over the summer I'm sure, when the news isn't so prominent.

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There will be lots of plotting over what Sapp! Sometimes somebody does

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come out of the blue. Even David Cameron was relatively unknown

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before he became Conservative leader. He suddenly emerged, people

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thought he was an tested. He went to a general election and became Prime

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Minister. It's not inconceivable you could have these people who aren't

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known to the public. Just time to turn to Page ten of The Observer.

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Office yoga. Martin, office yoga? This is Public Health England

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talking about how employers can cut the sickness bill by encouraging

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their staff to do things that keep them fit. Walking around the office

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and standing desks is another. Another one is helping them with

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removing ingrowing toenails! The mind boggles. I wonder if that is

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one of the things people are off sick for. For it to have made the

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list of things that is in the recommendations, which I didn't

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know. Would you do a bit of office yoga in your lunch break? I would! I

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like sports where you run after a ball. It's about balance! Notice I

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didn't ask about your ingrowing toenails! Thank you both for coming

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in. Just a reminder we take a look

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at tomorrow's front pages every The headlines are coming up in just

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a few minutes. Yesterday's weather turned out to be

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pretty disappointing for some through the afternoon. Prolonged

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rain and feeling quite cool. There was some sunshine in the forecast

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and today looking pretty

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