30/07/2017 The Papers


30/07/2017

A lively, informed and in-depth conversation about the Sunday papers.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 30/07/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Now on BBC News, it is time for the Papers.

:00:00.:00:13.

Hello and welcome to our look ahead to what the the papers will be

:00:14.:00:17.

With me are Sebastian Payne from the Financial Times

:00:18.:00:20.

and Prashant Rao from the New York Times.

:00:21.:00:22.

Let's look at tomorrow's front pages.

:00:23.:00:25.

The Observer leads with President Trump's decision

:00:26.:00:28.

to sack his chief of staff causing nervousness among Republicans.

:00:29.:00:33.

The Telegraph headlines an ally of Boris Johnson

:00:34.:00:35.

attacking Philip Hammond's approach to Brexit.

:00:36.:00:39.

The Sunday Times has a report on the lives of teenage

:00:40.:00:42.

British girls who run away to join so-called Islamic State.

:00:43.:00:45.

The Mail says that Princess Diana's brother has

:00:46.:00:47.

called on Channel 4 not to broadcast her video diaries,

:00:48.:00:51.

The Express also focuses on Princess Diana,

:00:52.:00:56.

claiming the Princess asked the Queen for help

:00:57.:00:58.

And that story also makes the Daily Star's front page.

:00:59.:01:11.

So, let's begin. Let us start with the front page of the Observer.

:01:12.:01:19.

Republican fears mount after Trump's White House. It has been quite a

:01:20.:01:28.

week, how would you characterise? Has it really been a week? It feels

:01:29.:01:32.

like a month, a year... Even just listing the number of things that

:01:33.:01:35.

have happened in the past seven days is astonishing. Reince Priebus being

:01:36.:01:44.

booted for the general Kelly, Scaramucci becoming comms director,

:01:45.:01:49.

Spicer being, you know, his ragged nation. -- his resignation. It's

:01:50.:01:56.

exhausting just being here, let alone being in Rossington. That in

:01:57.:02:02.

Washington. What are the Republican fears? A

:02:03.:02:08.

sense of meltdown and not actually doing anything, reports this has

:02:09.:02:11.

been the worst week enjoyed by any US president in living memory. This

:02:12.:02:15.

really is the concern of Washington, President Trump has only been there

:02:16.:02:18.

six months to forget. It feels like longer that there has been so much

:02:19.:02:21.

news in so much happening. Yet actually nothing has happened. The

:02:22.:02:26.

president has not passed any major legislation, his operation is in

:02:27.:02:30.

chaos. This week did feel like everything came together in a ball

:02:31.:02:35.

of catastrophe, in a way, with Reince Priebus going, Anthony

:02:36.:02:40.

Scaramucci's Thai raid, extraordinary for such a senior US

:02:41.:02:44.

government official to talk in these terms. There are continued questions

:02:45.:02:47.

over the Attorney General and the health care bill, but amazing

:02:48.:02:51.

moment. In fact not mentioned here, as one of you pointed out. You talk

:02:52.:02:56.

about what is actually getting done in this. Proponents of the president

:02:57.:03:00.

would argue, he has appointed a Supreme Court justice which for most

:03:01.:03:03.

presidencies would be an enormous achievement. That is definitely

:03:04.:03:07.

true, but this health care bill has something we have been talking about

:03:08.:03:10.

not just for months but years, the repeal of Obamacare. The fact this

:03:11.:03:13.

is not even get me to play in most of the British press, there is just

:03:14.:03:18.

so much there has been happening. It's been lost. The actual

:03:19.:03:23.

legislation has been lost. Part of the problem is, people always say

:03:24.:03:26.

politics would be so much better if we had business people coming in,

:03:27.:03:29.

they will bring a tighter ship. What you are seeing now is people who do

:03:30.:03:33.

not really have a lot of political experience, because if you take the

:03:34.:03:37.

Obamacare repeal process, it took Obamacare a year to get through.

:03:38.:03:41.

They are trying to rush this through through the skinny appeal, the major

:03:42.:03:45.

appeal, all these different things. It is also the matter not

:03:46.:03:48.

understanding how to get things done. They are hoping with General

:03:49.:03:52.

Kelly coming in who is very experienced, knows how to run a

:03:53.:03:55.

tight ship, that things will get back on track and they will get some

:03:56.:03:59.

legislative progress. They risk getting to the end of this year, and

:04:00.:04:03.

I take your point on the Supreme Court, but really apart from that

:04:04.:04:06.

it's very hard to say what they have achieved. Fair point. Difficulty as

:04:07.:04:10.

well as more people jump in and out of this White House. There is a

:04:11.:04:14.

genuine question as to whether they can continue to recruit the kind of

:04:15.:04:17.

talented people that need to be in the White House. As it becomes

:04:18.:04:21.

harder to tell, do you have any staying power? What measure of multi

:04:22.:04:25.

is sufficient? Jeff Sessions was the first person, the first credible

:04:26.:04:29.

semitone came aboard the Trump campaign. Trump before Trump, in a

:04:30.:04:38.

way. -- the first credible senator. Now Trump seems to want to fire him.

:04:39.:04:43.

If that is not enough loyalty, what is? The difficulty becomes, how do

:04:44.:04:46.

you recruit people who want to work in this White House if Nolan measure

:04:47.:04:49.

of loyalty is enough? Someone said to me, the problem at the Trump

:04:50.:04:56.

White House has is the people who work there don't want to, and the

:04:57.:04:59.

people who don't do want to. There is this mismatch of skills and

:05:00.:05:04.

talents. As things continue to disintegrate before our eyes, it

:05:05.:05:08.

gets even harder. Is it disintegrating or is it just the new

:05:09.:05:12.

normal? We have to be careful not to normalise the sort of thing. Reince

:05:13.:05:17.

Priebus is the shortest serving chief of staff in White House

:05:18.:05:21.

history. You have to keep things in context here. We are bombarded with

:05:22.:05:24.

these announcements and News alerts all the time about the Trump White

:05:25.:05:29.

House, we have to remember even this time last year, this was not how

:05:30.:05:31.

things were done. This was nowhere near the way things were done. It

:05:32.:05:35.

really should not become the new normal. Sorry to cut you off, but we

:05:36.:05:40.

were discussing earlier, one thing we have not even mention was the Boy

:05:41.:05:44.

Scouts speech. That would have been a completely innocuous speech by any

:05:45.:05:47.

other politician but this has become a huge news event of itself. The

:05:48.:05:51.

reporters would have been going to the White House, to the White House

:05:52.:05:57.

speech, the poor reporters would have drawn the short straw of the

:05:58.:06:00.

Boy Scouts speech, but now there is nothing that is not news any more.

:06:01.:06:05.

You work for the New York Times, that has come under fire from the

:06:06.:06:08.

president. What is that like for colleagues? It's difficult to say.

:06:09.:06:13.

In New York, the mood is very different. There are a lot of things

:06:14.:06:19.

happening. There is still very much, the leadership says, we are doing

:06:20.:06:21.

good journalism and that's all you can ask for. The president will say

:06:22.:06:27.

what he says. I think things like people are coming to news.

:06:28.:06:34.

Subscriptions are on the rise, the Wall Street Journal as well. Coming

:06:35.:06:38.

under fire from the president is happening to everyone. We had to be

:06:39.:06:42.

careful not to say this is normal, but this is kind of what happens

:06:43.:06:50.

now. Let's move on. Front page of the Sunday Telegraph, Boris Ally

:06:51.:06:53.

attacks Hammond Brexit plan. I suppose we are going to have Brexit

:06:54.:06:57.

stories every week now four months to come. Sebastian, who is the Boris

:06:58.:07:04.

Ally? That is Gerard Lyons, who is the leading city economist, he

:07:05.:07:07.

worked for Boris Johnson in City Hall. Because the cabinet is now

:07:08.:07:11.

being more careful of what it can and can't say it is reading the

:07:12.:07:14.

ruins of it here, and Mr Lyons has written a piece for the Telegraph.

:07:15.:07:18.

I'm not quite sure how big of an attack that is, because Mr Lyons

:07:19.:07:23.

says that any transitional phase out of the EU is just two years long,

:07:24.:07:28.

which the Telegraph reports is a year longer than Mr Hammond, a year

:07:29.:07:32.

shorter, sorry, it is shorter than Mr Hammond wanted. There has any

:07:33.:07:37.

consensus growing about Brexit in the Cabinet over the past week. --

:07:38.:07:43.

has been a consensus. Everyone agrees there will be a transition

:07:44.:07:46.

out of the EU. It is really a question of how long that lasts and

:07:47.:07:51.

what it consists of. This two-year period with Mr Lyons and Mr Hammond

:07:52.:07:55.

are talking about, seems fairly acceptable. There is still this

:07:56.:07:59.

concern from Brexit supporters, to use the phrase that is in the

:08:00.:08:03.

Telegraph, there is a bridge to nowhere. A transition with a finite

:08:04.:08:07.

point. We will see a lot more of this kind of stuff over the next

:08:08.:08:10.

couple of weeks as everyone tries to get their stuff out there before the

:08:11.:08:14.

Prime Minister in September is expected to say, this is what the

:08:15.:08:17.

transition will be. This is what Brexit looks like. You say that, but

:08:18.:08:22.

on the front page of The Times you have got the international trade

:08:23.:08:26.

secretary Liam Fox denying there has been a Cabinet deal on immigration.

:08:27.:08:29.

That's the story we are running this morning as well. It does not

:08:30.:08:33.

necessarily feel that United, does it? The difficulty is, you are right

:08:34.:08:41.

to say this is not really a split. Two years, three years, in the grand

:08:42.:08:43.

scheme of things this will be worked out. The real questions are not

:08:44.:08:46.

really being tackled in the way they need to be. This is something I

:08:47.:08:51.

think you are right, there will be a transition, everyone agrees that,

:08:52.:08:53.

whatever it turns out to be. Immigration is much more difficult

:08:54.:08:57.

because I think Philip Hammond and certain other members of the Cabinet

:08:58.:09:02.

do seem to want some measure of immigration, especially from the EU.

:09:03.:09:05.

I think there is a reasonable economic argument to make that

:09:06.:09:09.

Britain could use some immigration, especially as the population ages

:09:10.:09:12.

and younger migrants come through. But then it is, what the people vote

:09:13.:09:16.

for last year. Did they vote for less immigration? That seems to be a

:09:17.:09:19.

reasonable consensus that there was a desire for that. We were talking

:09:20.:09:24.

early as well, this is just one of a whole host of located issues, that

:09:25.:09:29.

not enough is being talked about. Northern Ireland is another one.

:09:30.:09:34.

That's on the front page of the observer I think. How you get

:09:35.:09:37.

through this in 18 months, I just don't know. And of course the

:09:38.:09:42.

speculation about people manoeuvring within the Cabinet, for eventual

:09:43.:09:51.

leadership successes. Leadership. Yes, I was just grasping for words

:09:52.:09:57.

there. There are tribes in a way. You have Damian Green who was

:09:58.:10:00.

essentially the Deputy Prime Minister and Philip Hammond wanting

:10:01.:10:04.

a soft as possible approach. They do not want any kind of cliff edge

:10:05.:10:07.

break. Others like Michael Gove and Liam Fox want to jettison the EU and

:10:08.:10:13.

back out there and start negotiating these new trade deals. The problem

:10:14.:10:18.

is we have not really had that conversation over the past year with

:10:19.:10:21.

what Brexit looks like. A lot of the past year has been people scratching

:10:22.:10:25.

their chins and thinking, but not much leadership from the government.

:10:26.:10:28.

I think this is where it turns to the premise in the autumn, when she

:10:29.:10:32.

comes back from a walking holiday in Switzerland. Hopefully she can say

:10:33.:10:35.

right, this is where it's going to be. If you keep having these splits

:10:36.:10:40.

about little details about the transition period, you don't get to

:10:41.:10:43.

the issues we are talking about, about what our migration policy will

:10:44.:10:47.

be, what will the Irish border lookalike, is the ECJ going to have

:10:48.:10:51.

a role? That ultimately will decide what Brexit looks like, and whether

:10:52.:10:54.

it will fill the needs of the 52% devoted to last summer. Let's move

:10:55.:11:01.

on to a story we will have a lot of, Princess Diana. -- the 52% who voted

:11:02.:11:10.

to leave last summer. Lots of papers happiness but let's

:11:11.:11:13.

look at the mail. Don't show Diana Love tapes on TV, please what's

:11:14.:11:19.

that? This is a series of conversations, I believe there are

:11:20.:11:22.

12 tapes in total, but seven are the basis for the stock imagery from

:11:23.:11:27.

Channel 4 regarding Princess Diana as the marriage was falling apart,

:11:28.:11:32.

in the midst of the separation. She talks in very Private terms about

:11:33.:11:39.

the honest conversations she had been having with the Queen, with

:11:40.:11:45.

Prince Charles himself. There is some... This has been broadcast

:11:46.:11:49.

before, this is the first time it would be on British TV. NBC

:11:50.:11:56.

broadcast as the male motes in 2004. -- NBC broadcast this, as the mail

:11:57.:12:01.

notes. I can understand why family members don't want this to be

:12:02.:12:05.

broadcast but there does not seem to be any legal justification for it

:12:06.:12:09.

not be broadcast. The real debate is because these tapes were part of

:12:10.:12:12.

some training sessions, I believe, according to the reports. The

:12:13.:12:17.

question is, did Diana ever woollies board was? Obviously we will never

:12:18.:12:19.

know the answer and that's the real question here. -- did Diana ever

:12:20.:12:27.

want these broadcast? Some other papers as well, sources close to

:12:28.:12:30.

Prince William and Harry saying they don't really want them broadcast.

:12:31.:12:34.

But you are right, there is no legal justification. I suppose it comes

:12:35.:12:40.

back to taste grounds, public interest, and public appetite. It is

:12:41.:12:44.

incredible, 20 years since the death of Diana and the public appetite for

:12:45.:12:47.

this story does not seem to be really that much less than it was in

:12:48.:12:51.

the late 90s. As we roll into August, I think there will be a lot

:12:52.:12:55.

more of this as well. I suppose so much of it has been reported, are

:12:56.:12:59.

nothing new is seized on as an opportunity. What is interesting is

:13:00.:13:04.

the princes, William and Harry, have opened up quite a lot in recent

:13:05.:13:07.

weeks about their relationship with their mother. They of course have a

:13:08.:13:14.

right and want to own the story. She was their mother. But other people

:13:15.:13:17.

want to tell the story in different ways. There is a tension there.

:13:18.:13:24.

Absolutely. We saw the ITV documentary where they very much

:13:25.:13:27.

opened up in a personal way, putting their side of the story across,

:13:28.:13:30.

where is this is a very different side. There was a lot of reporting

:13:31.:13:34.

that they were very involved in a documentary. It was not just

:13:35.:13:37.

interviews and being on camera, but they chose people who would be

:13:38.:13:41.

there, it was very much as you say, them presenting their side of it.

:13:42.:13:48.

Not there multiple sides, but their story. But there are multiple

:13:49.:13:52.

stories to be told. Appetite for stories for Princess Diana have

:13:53.:13:55.

shown no signs of abating over 20 years. She was an astonishing

:13:56.:13:59.

figure, I think that I did read imagery we went into a lot of the

:14:00.:14:02.

remarkable thing she did. It's easy to forget that she was remarkable in

:14:03.:14:07.

so many ways. This document tree, it's very uncomfortable viewing I'm

:14:08.:14:10.

sure, it will be uncomfortable for memories of her family, her sons. --

:14:11.:14:16.

members of her family. But I'm sure there will be more

:14:17.:14:19.

bluster, this to come as we get closer to the anniversary next

:14:20.:14:23.

month. Let's move on, I'm keen to get another story. The Times has

:14:24.:14:29.

done a bit report on the life of teenage brides in Islamic State,

:14:30.:14:34.

so-called Little Britain. Young women like these British and western

:14:35.:14:40.

women who have married fighters for so-called Islamic State, not a news

:14:41.:14:44.

story in a sense of what this reveals is a lot of detail we did

:14:45.:14:49.

not know. Hugely, there is also this issue of their legal status as well.

:14:50.:14:53.

Alongside this we have the story about the government stripping

:14:54.:14:57.

hundreds of jihadists on British passports. A very emotional story on

:14:58.:15:00.

the front page of the Sunday Times today about one of these so-called

:15:01.:15:06.

jihadis brides who has had her, she is stateless, she has no

:15:07.:15:09.

citizenship, no passport. She had gone to the so-called Islamic State

:15:10.:15:14.

to marry a fighter that. What we are seeing here is that Isis is

:15:15.:15:18.

collapsing. The fight does seem to be making progress. Syria is on the

:15:19.:15:22.

brink of collapse as well. When that happens, what will happen to all

:15:23.:15:26.

these people? These people who have British passports as well. This is

:15:27.:15:30.

of great concern to the security services here, because there is a

:15:31.:15:33.

quote from the senior source who says there is an awful lot of people

:15:34.:15:36.

we have found who will never be coming home again. Our number-1

:15:37.:15:42.

preferences to get them on trial. We don't think that's possible, we use

:15:43.:15:45.

disruption techniques. Depriving people of passports? Exactly. Trying

:15:46.:15:50.

to control the situation that is very hard to control. It will only

:15:51.:15:55.

get worse. The momentum seems to be against the Islamic State, as they

:15:56.:16:00.

continue to lose territory in Syria. She talks in this interview, it's

:16:01.:16:06.

remarkable, her hardships on morale. Fighters and their wives spoke about

:16:07.:16:09.

leaving, most wanted to go she said, but they did not know how. More and

:16:10.:16:14.

more people, wanting to go back to Germany, Britain is not alone in

:16:15.:16:17.

confronting this problem. Another thing where her parents plead with

:16:18.:16:20.

the government to let her go home but the bureaucracy is a movable and

:16:21.:16:24.

she fears the stigma she would face if she did return. They will say she

:16:25.:16:29.

is Isis, she says. Huge problems, legal problems with what you do with

:16:30.:16:33.

these people. There are people born in Islamic State territory whose

:16:34.:16:37.

passports will be held, if they are nationals of Britain, Denmark, all

:16:38.:16:41.

these countries. Even if they do come back, how do you reintegrate

:16:42.:16:45.

them into society? Do you put them in jail? What do you do with the

:16:46.:16:49.

children? There are a whole host of problems countries are only

:16:50.:16:52.

beginning to grapple with as the Islamic State Falls, and as that

:16:53.:16:55.

happens, there will be a huge number of problems that I get to be

:16:56.:17:00.

confronted. The British government is taking a very tough line on this,

:17:01.:17:04.

simply saying given the events of this year they are very conscious

:17:05.:17:08.

first of all not necessarily of the reintegration but about the security

:17:09.:17:12.

element. How do you track them? We do not have any good methods in this

:17:13.:17:16.

country for tracking people who come in and out of Borders. That is their

:17:17.:17:20.

first concern. They say there is a great human question toward this as

:17:21.:17:25.

well. We are going to have to leave it there. Thank you both very much.

:17:26.:17:26.

Thank you Sebastian Payne from the Financial Times

:17:27.:17:30.

and Prashant Rao from the New York Times.

:17:31.:17:44.

Coming up on BBC One after this programme

:17:45.:17:46.

is Sunday Morning Live - with the details, we say good

:17:47.:17:49.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS