16/10/2011 The Politics Show Scotland


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Does it prove that money still buys access to British politics? We hear


from a govern Minister, Jim Murphy and Tory backbenchers have. On the


Politics Show Scotland, we'll hear from Labour's new Shadow Scottish


Secretary on how the party aims to persuade voters to back them again.


We'll also try and find out how many questions the people will be


asked in the independence referendum. Could there be a simple


Yes and No campaign? Or will there be a second question keeping the


union but offering more powers - so-called devolution max? It would


make eminent sense. I thought Labour would be behind that. And it


is an industry which is worth billions and growing, but why does


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1343 seconds


the Scottish tourist industry feel I do not understand why the private


office did not say. Why they did not go to somebody else and see


they are worried about it. There is a feeling of a lack of joined up


thinking. We do not know what was and was not there. That is why we


have got the Cabinet Secretary looking into it. We must wait until


after that report has been produced. The cat let Liam Fox get away with


cultivating links with other regimes. The fact that it might be


a passable thing does not mean that he was not doing it, some of the


Realistic. Some of it is complete nonsense. You would expect him to


have relationships with people... What did you make of that?


Referring back... The answer is, without... All politicians at one


to stop newspapers. Newspapers are very important. We cannot have it


newspapers are making decisions about what actually did happen. MI


policy area, in the front of the Observer, the story was completely


wrong. Thank you very much indeed for being here. Later in the


programme, what might Europe and our relationship with that look


like once the dust settles on the eurozone crisis? First however, the


Politics Show where you are. Coming up on the show today, we ask the


new Shadow Secretary of what her vision of Labour is. It is quite


possible for powers to gravitate Isn't it about time a recognised


that tourism brings in a jobs and cash to Scotland? Should it be


better supported. First at the lunchtime news.


Good morning. Full-time carers in Scotland are to get cash from the


Scottish government which they can Scottish government which they can


use to pay for a short break. The To around 3,500 carers, both


Julie Peacock reports. It is estimated that carers save the


health service thousands of pounds a year. The government has


announced it is giving almost �1 billion to charity groups to


provide short breaks for carers. The money will be used to fund


after-school clubs for young carers and social activities to prevent


people becoming lonely or isolated. There are around 650,000 carers in


Scotland. The money will benefit around 3500 of them.


A new survey suggests almost three quarters of Scots think Holyrood


should have more say over how the country is run than the Westminster


government. The Scottish Social Attitudes Survey also found a


higher level of satisfaction with the Scottish Government. Speaking


this morning, Alex Salmond said the figures were encouraging. In the


survey published today, support for the Scottish government is running


at 62%, three times the support for trust in the United Kingdom


Government. For the first time, TV viewers are


to see footage of Sir Fred Goodwin apologising to Royal Bank of


Scotland shareholders. It's in a BBC Scotland documentary tomorrow,


three years after the Edinburgh- based banking group was bailed out


by the British taxpayers. It ran up the biggest corporate loss in


British history. RBS: Inside The Bank That Ran Out Of Money is at 9


o'clock tomorrow evening. To tennis, and Andy Murray has


successfully defended his Shanghai Masters title by beating Spain's


David Ferrer 7-5 6-4. He has completed an Asian triple after


wins in Thailand and Japan. He's now world number three.


Showers in the north west of the country will be come heavier and


more frequent throughout the day, although there will be some sunny


spells. Elsewhere it is going to be fairly cloudy, with one or two


showers. Tonight, those showers in the north west will become quite


blustery with winds touching gale force in places.


That's it for now. Our next news bulletin is just after quarter past


six this evening. Now it's back to Raymond.


Thanks, Rob. They have dubbed themselves Team


Scotland. The latest Labour reshuffle has seen 13 of the


party's Scottish MPs made spokesmen or women on a variety of subjects


from climate change to benefits. But what will they actually stand


for? The party's chief strategist Douglas Alexander has called on his


colleagues to find a story which reconnects with the Scottish people.


He also pointed out only one in eight Scots voted for Labour in


May's Holyrood election. So they seem to be a party in search of a


vision, but what vision? Christine Labour has taken significant steps


this week to help of the electoral recovery north of Scotland. Our job


is to be a better expression of a politics of social justice and that


sense of possibility. North of the border, after giving a prang speech


on where the party went franc -- a franc speech on where the party


went wrong in May, a new vision was unveiled. But a former First


Minister warns of critical obstacles of the Labour Party must


overcome before its members are capable of working together to


produce the new vision necessary for recovery. Holyrood and


Westminster must have equal status and that is not happening. There


are too many tensions, too many people still at Westminster who


want to lecture those at Edinburgh. We have got to start singing off


the same hymn sheet. The success of the SNP is that there has a small


number working closely together. are not articulating clearly the


core values they claim to stand for, according to one commentator.


us what a more equal Scotland will look like. Talk about life chances,


about the good things you have done and not done. That agenda is


something Labour have never fleshed out in the 12 years of the Scottish


Parliament. Some politicians have tried, but there has never been one


of mantra. A of the Labour Party can overcome its internal


differences, Henry McLeish says his top priority should come up with a


credible alternative but to independence. We have to look at


the issue of the independence referendum. Not just to oppose that


and have a unionist Alliance, but to have an alternative. For me, it


could be Devolution Max. But come the party deliver these


alternatives and time for an independence referendum and


outmanoeuvre the SNP to return to I am joined now by the newly


promoted Shadow Scottish Secretary, Margaret Curran. Congratulations on


your promotion. What was a job description you were given?


priority is about the future of Scotland. Henry McLeish had a point


when he said that me -- that any need unity, parity with Westminster.


Our priority is the people of Scotland. Talk about the lessons.


You talk about parity between MPs and MSPs. As a former MSP, there


was undoubtedly tensions. It is sometimes at the nature of change.


But looking forward, there is unity of purpose. We have learned a lot


of lessons. Westminster has a deep understanding and commitment to


Holyrood. But in the Westminster team, we have a very strong group


of talented MPs, your MPs with new ideas and the new energy who want


to co-ordinate and focus that in the best interest of Scotland.


There will be at some point and new leader of the Labour Party in


Scotland, what will be your relationship with whoever that is?


I know them well, so I am sure it will be a good relationship. They


will be directing policy in Scotland. Where it is a reserved


issue. I can guarantee you that when you focus on the people that


represent you and when you focus on Scotland, and we have a lot of


thinking to do about the future of Scotland, then it we will gel.


will that work on policies like higher education for the Labour


Party in Westminster will have one due -- one opinion. We have been


living with death of policies for many years. -- a different policies.


If you are a voter, you are hearing one message across the United


Kingdom, a separate message in Scotland and your perception might


be that you are a divided party, you do not have a common purpose.


do not think that is true. We are a variety of nations with different


government. We have a devolved nations addressing their own issues.


Scottish education has always been different from English education.


This is just perhaps a more dramatic version of that. But the


Labour Party is a big party, we are a big movement of the big


challenges and we can accommodate back quite easily. Is it just the


Labour Party in Scotland which seems to be struggling to tell


voters a story which will attract them, or the Labour Party across


the UK? There are lessons to try and understand the big challenges


in the United Kingdom. The biggest challenge that Scotland faces is


the economic challenge that is taking across the world. We had


80,000 young people that are unemployed. That is a major change.


I think that some of the thinking that Ed Miliband is doing is very


interesting. We have to change in Scotland to adapt to the changes.


People in Scotland to talk about changing the party, coming up with


different policies, but we have no details. What has Labour stand for


now? The big challenge facing Labour in the future, what Douglas


was saying the other night is very interesting, it is the big economic


changes that we are facing. We have to face that enormous at this


location -- dislocation. Devolution is about that redistribution of


power. It is about empowering people. We have not talked enough


about that. So give us a policy. will not give you a list of


policies. One that would do. will challenge on of employment in


Scotland. When we face economic dislocation, we will make sure that


we fulfil Labour's historic mission. When a Europe of the survey


published today, people trust the Scottish government more than their


UK government. That is as a result of what the SNP has done. When you


look at that survey, over many years, when devolution could first


given, people welcome that very strongly. I think the service part


of a bigger story. There are possibly two questions want


independence. -- on independence. We have got a lot of deep thinking


to do and I want to be part of that regeneration of the party.


Developing policies for the future. We need to make sure that we don't


just get into a straitjacket. The questions in Scotland are too big


for that. My team in the UK will be contributing to that bigger debate


is that we need to have about the big challenges Scotland face rather


than talking about this -- about the powers of the Scottish


government. We need to talk about demographic change, economic change.


That is a conversation we need to have her. Thank you very much


indeed for your time. The Scottish National Party will


gather in Inverness later this week to celebrate their election victory,


but also to discuss how they can win the upcoming independence


referendum. But how many questions will voters be asked to answer? A


simple yes or no to independence, or a second option which would keep


the union but back greater powers for Holyrood - so-called Devolution


Remember this question on the last time Scotland was asked to vote in


rare referendum on palace was back in 1997. People were asked if they


wanted a Scottish Parliament. As the results came in, it was clear


that the answer was an overwhelming "yes". The votes cast for "yes",


18,790. It represents 80%. there was also a second question.


The votes cast I agree that a Scottish Parliament should have


tax-varying powers, up 16,112. Representing 68.7 % of the ballot


box. Now the people are to be asked again about Scotland's


constitutional future, and again, they could be two questions. This


is what the last minority SNP Government proposed. First, a


greater powers ballot. The Scottish Parliament would, with certain


exceptions, be responsible for all laws, taxes and duties in Scotland.


The exceptions, which would continue to be the responsibility


of the United Kingdom Parliament, our defence and foreign affairs,


financial regulation, monetary policy and the currency. Do you


agree? The second question would But since these proposals were


published, there has been an election and Alex Salmond has a new


majority Government. He is yet to rule on how many questions he


currently prefers. If there is a third option, more powers, then the


likelihood is that that would win, or at least that Scotland would


vote for either independence or more powers, and so the SNP could


come away with at least gaining something from the referendum. It


is an insurance policy for the SNP. But that insures policy raises the


prospect of some conflict campaigning. The SNP are during the


"yes" "yes", others are doing "no" "no", and others St "yes" to more


powers and "no" to independence. But he would those others be?


majority of people, I think many people who vote for the SNP, would


vote for increased devolution but not outright independence. Many


people voting for the Labour Party and probably the other parties, too,


would feel some of it. So I think that no, Yes campaign may not win.


But people would have to know exactly what they were voting for.


The last Holyrood referendum had cross-party support. That would not


happen this time. On the constitution, Scotland's politics


remains deeply divided. I am joined now by Ian Davidson, chair of the


Scottish Affairs Committee at Westminster, who has just announced


two inquiries into he independence referendum. Also the SNP's Derek


Mackay, Cook represents the backbenchers at Holyrood. Alex


Salmond hinted earlier in the week he would have a second question,


one on for fiscal autonomy or Devolution Max, one of the other


names for it. That will happen, Bridget? I think the Government


remains open-minded on the questions that will be put to


Scotland. That will be outlined over the coming period but if there


are multiple questions, what will be clear is that we have a very


positive case for both more powers for the Scottish Government or


independence. But we will be aiming to win the independence. It is only


fair that people know there will be a question on independence, so it


is only fair that you said as much time as possible for people to know


there will be a second question, in case there are those areas


campaigns. How much time will you give people before you announce


what there will be for a second question, and if there will be one?


The First Minister said there would be the referendum in the second


part of the parliamentary term. The Scottish people have given us a


mandate for that. There will be a - - plenty of time. There will be a


proper process to ensure that Scotland's voice is probably ahead


and that the polls that we have seen today show that both


independence is very popular and people think that power is rightly


held in Holyrood, the most relevant parliament in dealing with a


Scotland's day-to-day concerns. Davidson, you have watched these


two inquiries, or your committee has. By, or when this is an issue


that will be dealt with at Holyrood? -- why? It is much better


we have separation achieved amicably and that will have to be


done with the UK and Scotland and all of us, whichever the retake,


will want the process to have been as amicable and settled as possible.


That is why. There are two points we want to pursue which we do not


believe are being pursued adequate. How a separation referendum is


actually going to be run. It is clear that at the moment legal


representation for constitutional matters lies with Westminster. That


was decided by the Scottish people when they voted in the referendum.


Wait. That was is guided by the Scottish people when they voted in


the referendum. -- that was decided. But things have moved on and it is


clear we are going to have a referendum of some sort. For the


second thing we will pursue is that if we are going to have separation,


people have got to know what they are averaging about. Michael Moore


produced a list of half a dozen items he Bix need to be clarified.


We are asking people in Scotland what additional issues they need to


have clarified. For example... Let's just take that first point.


Which is that it would be an advisory referendum. Westminster


are hardly going to turn around, having had a referendum in Scotland,


and say, tell you what, we do not care what you think. Why should a


referendum simply be advisory? Why don't we take the view that it will


be binding, but Westminster accepts it is a binding referendum? One at


a time. It is important that if we are moving to separation we do it


amicably. I would have thought that having both Westminster and the


Scottish Government clear that it will be a fair referendum with a


fair question, then that is the best way forward. Do you think that


they are trying to park their tanks on your lawn? All the parties in


Westminster are all over the place. Scott learned -- the Scottish


National Party has a mandate to hold this referendum. The Scottish


Affairs Committee, it is absolutely irrelevant, it is a sideshow, it is


not a committee made up of Scottish MPs. As we approach... As we


approach the referendum, there has to be a prospectus that will


outline what independence and the other choices would mean. It is the


status quo. But in terms of Mr Davidson's chairmanship of the


committee, I do not think he has too much credibility on harmonious


discussion. Mr Davidson has referred to the SNP as neo-fascists.


Unacceptable language on what should be a very good debate on the


future of the country. When the country decided to do this it was


unanimous. There was not a single vote against. Representatives of


all political parties in Scotland were in agreement. What exactly is


the relevant Sardar you are going to ask questions in this inquiry,


Ian Davidson. You have taught about the six points, or what other boys


would you like clarified? The whole point of a qualification is that we


are asking the people of Scotland to tell us what they want clarified.


As a constituency MP I want to see what is going to happen to the


shipyards clarified. Well, we can't cover everything, so... We cannot


even get the language in a constructive tone. It is not


separation, it is independence, it is perfectly normal around the


world, so why the pejorative language? The Poles do suggest that


independence is more popular than the alternatives. -- Poles. It


appears it is Mr Davidson who's out of step with the people of Scotland


and his own voters. Derek Mackay it seems to be making quite a good


point, that Labour are not only losing the argument in Scotland but


in the UK? That is why we need a referendum on the question of


separation and we accept that. There will now be a referendum on


separation and what we are saying is that firstly, it has got to be


run properly. Most fans, a snowdrift questions... This is


ridiculous. There will be up an independent body -- are there will


be an independent body... It will be a referendum of the highest


standards. Quite a heated debate. When we can use Midge Ure language


and described... -- Midge Ure language. Labour leadership, are


you going to stand for any post? Yes, I will be standing as deputy


leader. We had a meeting this morning and it was agreed that I


would go forward. Thank you for your time this morning. When you


think of big money-makers in the Scottish economy, what comes to


mind? Foyle, whisky, tourism? Figures showed that more people are


choosing to holiday here. The tourism industry generates �4


billion a year and employs tens of thousands of people. But despite


its economic importance, many you working the industry do not feel


How to turn spectators into buyers, at this year's Scottish ski and


outdoor show, will be a challenge but it is one the industry is


taking on. New figures reveal between January and June 2011,


domestic visits or staycations, to Scotland, rose by 6%. But there has


been an a % decrease in overseas visits. That is compared to an


increase of 7% across the UK. international visitors have not


come in the amounts we wanted but they are a small part of our


overall tourism market. And if the marketing expenditure is limited,


you focus market expenditure on the bulk of your tourists, who come


from domestic locations. So the big focus for us has got to beat


England, the rest of Scotland. That is where we have the possibility to


make money in a recession. This pub in Perthshire uses a website to


promote itself but despite staycations, business is slow.


has been a difficult year. We have not had much business at all from


Visit Scotland. We put a lot into letting people know we are here. We


try our hardest to work with other businesses in the tourism trade.


One business they work with his Big Tree Campervans. The tourism


industry generates �4 billion a year and the mobile phone business


is part of that. The owner here believes his sector should receive


more support to help increase turnover. My biggest fear is we


forget some of the emerging markets, camper vans, motor homes,


watersports and active leisure areas, and do not focus on them


enough and really understand what makes those areas tick and do


things with those to bring visitors into the country. In the winter


months, Scottish cities can target the conference market and weekend


breaks but rural areas struggle. If the tourism industry is to thrive,


it needs to ensure that people who make staycations return. We have


seen the beaches, which is great but some of the attractions have


been closed. I would have loved to have had a bit more of the local


fish. You can see that there is a lot of fish being farmed here and


there but you cannot buy it. Scottish ski results will be hoping


for a long, cold and snowy winter to draw in the crowds. The growth


of the staycation is having an impact across the world. It is


challenging but we definitely have a local market that was helping as


well. Due to the general downturn, it is obvious that the tourism


sector is what is suffering. They made more funds available for us to


fight. With the 2012 Olympics approaching, Scotland must compete


with London for its share of the market. The spotlight will be on


the UK but London specifically, but it is on the rest of the UK. There


is a lot of displacement that will take place within the UK, I eat


people who would like to go to London but can't because the rooms


are full. -- I mean people... the World Wide economy still wobbly,


the challenge Scotland faces is to hold on to these staycation as and


keep the international tourism on board.


We have a couple of leading businessmen in the tourism industry,


Robin Worsnop, chief executive of Rabbies Small Group Tours, and also


the head of Edinburgh's Tourism Action Group, and the managing


director of Crieff Hydro, Stephen Leckie, who is also the chair of


the Scottish Tourism Forum. Stephen Leckie, give us an idea of how well


Scotland has done in the last season. It seems the UK market is


propping up the industry. The most recent statistics tell us that


Scotland has performed very well this year and what am hearing is


that in central Scotland, that is so. Up north and in rural areas it


is a bit more tricky. In Crieff Hydro we are having a good year and


that is after a significant investment in the last two years.


Robin, things like fuel prices must have an impact on people travelling


up, for example, from the south of England. Yes, it is definitely


having an effect in the roar parts of the country. The central belt is


doing well. I was surprised by the international figures that came out


for the six months of the year because our experience has been


completely the opposite of that and people I have been speaking to have


been doing particularly well in this area. And we did not have the


ash cloud disaster of April hitting us in 2011. We didn't have the


sunshine either. I was very surprised to see these figures.


What have you learned from these international tourists who come


over here. What do they tell you about why they are choosing


Scotland? I believe we have been a national competitive competitor


since the Stirling devalued against the euro. Scotland has iconic


assets. The Edinburgh festivals, the Highlands, the scenery. And the


friendliness of the people here is a superb thing that visitors want


to enjoy. Stephen Leckie, there seems to be some sense that lots of


folk who work in the tourism industry think they do not get the


attention they deserve. Is that your Gazette didn't -- perception?


A joint this industry 30 years ago and even then there was this chap


but tourism is one of the key drivers for economic growth in


Scotland. Tourism has devolved and that is good news. We have a very


able Visit Scotland marketing Scotland and that makes Scotland


the envy of the rest of the world for having a large publicly-funded


marketing body and then it is for the Private Business, people like


me and Robin, to work that out and persuade people to come to Scotland.


Her attitudes then changed to Visit Scotland, because for a long time


the debate was that people who worked in the tourism sector did


not feel it delivered for them? Has that changed? Perhaps there are


some really high expectations of what Visit Scotland can achieve for


the industry. In some terms it is measured at �4 billion. Other


measurements are �11.5 billion. It cannot be expected to deliver


everything for the industry itself. I believe that those who are doing


well have invested heavily in their customer experience and in their


product, and they are getting the word of mouth or what is commonly


referred to as the world of mouth, driving their business forward


today. Stephen Leckie, how do you hold on to these staycations,


because the minute the economy goes up, people will think, I tell you


what, I would rather go and see the sunshine? In Crieff Hydro, it is


not just about giving customers the bed space and food but many other


things in our result, persuading them that Crieff Hydro is the Eric


Joyce in Scotland to keep coming back to. So is that focusing on


service? It is about high quality, value for money, Investment back


into the product and the staff, having Chris Tapp, happy staff, who


want to look after our customers. - - having the good staff. A lot of


people have complaints about service. They do, but I think that


is often people with in Scotland who have a very high expectation.


When you look at surveys for people who visit the country, they show


Political magazine presented by Jon Sopel and Isabel Fraser.

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