16/10/2011 The Politics Show Scotland

Does it prove that money still buys access to British politics? We hear

from a govern Minister, Jim Murphy and Tory backbenchers have. On the

Politics Show Scotland, we'll hear from Labour's new Shadow Scottish

Secretary on how the party aims to persuade voters to back them again.

We'll also try and find out how many questions the people will be

asked in the independence referendum. Could there be a simple

Yes and No campaign? Or will there be a second question keeping the

union but offering more powers - so-called devolution max? It would

make eminent sense. I thought Labour would be behind that. And it

is an industry which is worth billions and growing, but why does

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1343 seconds

the Scottish tourist industry feel I do not understand why the private

office did not say. Why they did not go to somebody else and see

they are worried about it. There is a feeling of a lack of joined up

thinking. We do not know what was and was not there. That is why we

have got the Cabinet Secretary looking into it. We must wait until

after that report has been produced. The cat let Liam Fox get away with

cultivating links with other regimes. The fact that it might be

a passable thing does not mean that he was not doing it, some of the

Realistic. Some of it is complete nonsense. You would expect him to

have relationships with people... What did you make of that?

Referring back... The answer is, without... All politicians at one

to stop newspapers. Newspapers are very important. We cannot have it

newspapers are making decisions about what actually did happen. MI

policy area, in the front of the Observer, the story was completely

wrong. Thank you very much indeed for being here. Later in the

programme, what might Europe and our relationship with that look

like once the dust settles on the eurozone crisis? First however, the

Politics Show where you are. Coming up on the show today, we ask the

new Shadow Secretary of what her vision of Labour is. It is quite

possible for powers to gravitate Isn't it about time a recognised

that tourism brings in a jobs and cash to Scotland? Should it be

better supported. First at the lunchtime news.

Good morning. Full-time carers in Scotland are to get cash from the

Scottish government which they can Scottish government which they can

use to pay for a short break. The To around 3,500 carers, both

Julie Peacock reports. It is estimated that carers save the

health service thousands of pounds a year. The government has

announced it is giving almost �1 billion to charity groups to

provide short breaks for carers. The money will be used to fund

after-school clubs for young carers and social activities to prevent

people becoming lonely or isolated. There are around 650,000 carers in

Scotland. The money will benefit around 3500 of them.

A new survey suggests almost three quarters of Scots think Holyrood

should have more say over how the country is run than the Westminster

government. The Scottish Social Attitudes Survey also found a

higher level of satisfaction with the Scottish Government. Speaking

this morning, Alex Salmond said the figures were encouraging. In the

survey published today, support for the Scottish government is running

at 62%, three times the support for trust in the United Kingdom

Government. For the first time, TV viewers are

to see footage of Sir Fred Goodwin apologising to Royal Bank of

Scotland shareholders. It's in a BBC Scotland documentary tomorrow,

three years after the Edinburgh- based banking group was bailed out

by the British taxpayers. It ran up the biggest corporate loss in

British history. RBS: Inside The Bank That Ran Out Of Money is at 9

o'clock tomorrow evening. To tennis, and Andy Murray has

successfully defended his Shanghai Masters title by beating Spain's

David Ferrer 7-5 6-4. He has completed an Asian triple after

wins in Thailand and Japan. He's now world number three.

Showers in the north west of the country will be come heavier and

more frequent throughout the day, although there will be some sunny

spells. Elsewhere it is going to be fairly cloudy, with one or two

showers. Tonight, those showers in the north west will become quite

blustery with winds touching gale force in places.

That's it for now. Our next news bulletin is just after quarter past

six this evening. Now it's back to Raymond.

Thanks, Rob. They have dubbed themselves Team

Scotland. The latest Labour reshuffle has seen 13 of the

party's Scottish MPs made spokesmen or women on a variety of subjects

from climate change to benefits. But what will they actually stand

for? The party's chief strategist Douglas Alexander has called on his

colleagues to find a story which reconnects with the Scottish people.

He also pointed out only one in eight Scots voted for Labour in

May's Holyrood election. So they seem to be a party in search of a

vision, but what vision? Christine Labour has taken significant steps

this week to help of the electoral recovery north of Scotland. Our job

is to be a better expression of a politics of social justice and that

sense of possibility. North of the border, after giving a prang speech

on where the party went franc -- a franc speech on where the party

went wrong in May, a new vision was unveiled. But a former First

Minister warns of critical obstacles of the Labour Party must

overcome before its members are capable of working together to

produce the new vision necessary for recovery. Holyrood and

Westminster must have equal status and that is not happening. There

are too many tensions, too many people still at Westminster who

want to lecture those at Edinburgh. We have got to start singing off

the same hymn sheet. The success of the SNP is that there has a small

number working closely together. are not articulating clearly the

core values they claim to stand for, according to one commentator.

us what a more equal Scotland will look like. Talk about life chances,

about the good things you have done and not done. That agenda is

something Labour have never fleshed out in the 12 years of the Scottish

Parliament. Some politicians have tried, but there has never been one

of mantra. A of the Labour Party can overcome its internal

differences, Henry McLeish says his top priority should come up with a

credible alternative but to independence. We have to look at

the issue of the independence referendum. Not just to oppose that

and have a unionist Alliance, but to have an alternative. For me, it

could be Devolution Max. But come the party deliver these

alternatives and time for an independence referendum and

outmanoeuvre the SNP to return to I am joined now by the newly

promoted Shadow Scottish Secretary, Margaret Curran. Congratulations on

your promotion. What was a job description you were given?

priority is about the future of Scotland. Henry McLeish had a point

when he said that me -- that any need unity, parity with Westminster.

Our priority is the people of Scotland. Talk about the lessons.

You talk about parity between MPs and MSPs. As a former MSP, there

was undoubtedly tensions. It is sometimes at the nature of change.

But looking forward, there is unity of purpose. We have learned a lot

of lessons. Westminster has a deep understanding and commitment to

Holyrood. But in the Westminster team, we have a very strong group

of talented MPs, your MPs with new ideas and the new energy who want

to co-ordinate and focus that in the best interest of Scotland.

There will be at some point and new leader of the Labour Party in

Scotland, what will be your relationship with whoever that is?

I know them well, so I am sure it will be a good relationship. They

will be directing policy in Scotland. Where it is a reserved

issue. I can guarantee you that when you focus on the people that

represent you and when you focus on Scotland, and we have a lot of

thinking to do about the future of Scotland, then it we will gel.

will that work on policies like higher education for the Labour

Party in Westminster will have one due -- one opinion. We have been

living with death of policies for many years. -- a different policies.

If you are a voter, you are hearing one message across the United

Kingdom, a separate message in Scotland and your perception might

be that you are a divided party, you do not have a common purpose.

do not think that is true. We are a variety of nations with different

government. We have a devolved nations addressing their own issues.

Scottish education has always been different from English education.

This is just perhaps a more dramatic version of that. But the

Labour Party is a big party, we are a big movement of the big

challenges and we can accommodate back quite easily. Is it just the

Labour Party in Scotland which seems to be struggling to tell

voters a story which will attract them, or the Labour Party across

the UK? There are lessons to try and understand the big challenges

in the United Kingdom. The biggest challenge that Scotland faces is

the economic challenge that is taking across the world. We had

80,000 young people that are unemployed. That is a major change.

I think that some of the thinking that Ed Miliband is doing is very

interesting. We have to change in Scotland to adapt to the changes.

People in Scotland to talk about changing the party, coming up with

different policies, but we have no details. What has Labour stand for

now? The big challenge facing Labour in the future, what Douglas

was saying the other night is very interesting, it is the big economic

changes that we are facing. We have to face that enormous at this

location -- dislocation. Devolution is about that redistribution of

power. It is about empowering people. We have not talked enough

about that. So give us a policy. will not give you a list of

policies. One that would do. will challenge on of employment in

Scotland. When we face economic dislocation, we will make sure that

we fulfil Labour's historic mission. When a Europe of the survey

published today, people trust the Scottish government more than their

UK government. That is as a result of what the SNP has done. When you

look at that survey, over many years, when devolution could first

given, people welcome that very strongly. I think the service part

of a bigger story. There are possibly two questions want

independence. -- on independence. We have got a lot of deep thinking

to do and I want to be part of that regeneration of the party.

Developing policies for the future. We need to make sure that we don't

just get into a straitjacket. The questions in Scotland are too big

for that. My team in the UK will be contributing to that bigger debate

is that we need to have about the big challenges Scotland face rather

than talking about this -- about the powers of the Scottish

government. We need to talk about demographic change, economic change.

That is a conversation we need to have her. Thank you very much

indeed for your time. The Scottish National Party will

gather in Inverness later this week to celebrate their election victory,

but also to discuss how they can win the upcoming independence

referendum. But how many questions will voters be asked to answer? A

simple yes or no to independence, or a second option which would keep

the union but back greater powers for Holyrood - so-called Devolution

Remember this question on the last time Scotland was asked to vote in

rare referendum on palace was back in 1997. People were asked if they

wanted a Scottish Parliament. As the results came in, it was clear

that the answer was an overwhelming "yes". The votes cast for "yes",

18,790. It represents 80%. there was also a second question.

The votes cast I agree that a Scottish Parliament should have

tax-varying powers, up 16,112. Representing 68.7 % of the ballot

box. Now the people are to be asked again about Scotland's

constitutional future, and again, they could be two questions. This

is what the last minority SNP Government proposed. First, a

greater powers ballot. The Scottish Parliament would, with certain

exceptions, be responsible for all laws, taxes and duties in Scotland.

The exceptions, which would continue to be the responsibility

of the United Kingdom Parliament, our defence and foreign affairs,

financial regulation, monetary policy and the currency. Do you

agree? The second question would But since these proposals were

published, there has been an election and Alex Salmond has a new

majority Government. He is yet to rule on how many questions he

currently prefers. If there is a third option, more powers, then the

likelihood is that that would win, or at least that Scotland would

vote for either independence or more powers, and so the SNP could

come away with at least gaining something from the referendum. It

is an insurance policy for the SNP. But that insures policy raises the

prospect of some conflict campaigning. The SNP are during the

"yes" "yes", others are doing "no" "no", and others St "yes" to more

powers and "no" to independence. But he would those others be?

majority of people, I think many people who vote for the SNP, would

vote for increased devolution but not outright independence. Many

people voting for the Labour Party and probably the other parties, too,

would feel some of it. So I think that no, Yes campaign may not win.

But people would have to know exactly what they were voting for.

The last Holyrood referendum had cross-party support. That would not

happen this time. On the constitution, Scotland's politics

remains deeply divided. I am joined now by Ian Davidson, chair of the

Scottish Affairs Committee at Westminster, who has just announced

two inquiries into he independence referendum. Also the SNP's Derek

Mackay, Cook represents the backbenchers at Holyrood. Alex

Salmond hinted earlier in the week he would have a second question,

one on for fiscal autonomy or Devolution Max, one of the other

names for it. That will happen, Bridget? I think the Government

remains open-minded on the questions that will be put to

Scotland. That will be outlined over the coming period but if there

are multiple questions, what will be clear is that we have a very

positive case for both more powers for the Scottish Government or

independence. But we will be aiming to win the independence. It is only

fair that people know there will be a question on independence, so it

is only fair that you said as much time as possible for people to know

there will be a second question, in case there are those areas

campaigns. How much time will you give people before you announce

what there will be for a second question, and if there will be one?

The First Minister said there would be the referendum in the second

part of the parliamentary term. The Scottish people have given us a

mandate for that. There will be a - - plenty of time. There will be a

proper process to ensure that Scotland's voice is probably ahead

and that the polls that we have seen today show that both

independence is very popular and people think that power is rightly

held in Holyrood, the most relevant parliament in dealing with a

Scotland's day-to-day concerns. Davidson, you have watched these

two inquiries, or your committee has. By, or when this is an issue

that will be dealt with at Holyrood? -- why? It is much better

we have separation achieved amicably and that will have to be

done with the UK and Scotland and all of us, whichever the retake,

will want the process to have been as amicable and settled as possible.

That is why. There are two points we want to pursue which we do not

believe are being pursued adequate. How a separation referendum is

actually going to be run. It is clear that at the moment legal

representation for constitutional matters lies with Westminster. That

was decided by the Scottish people when they voted in the referendum.

Wait. That was is guided by the Scottish people when they voted in

the referendum. -- that was decided. But things have moved on and it is

clear we are going to have a referendum of some sort. For the

second thing we will pursue is that if we are going to have separation,

people have got to know what they are averaging about. Michael Moore

produced a list of half a dozen items he Bix need to be clarified.

We are asking people in Scotland what additional issues they need to

have clarified. For example... Let's just take that first point.

Which is that it would be an advisory referendum. Westminster

are hardly going to turn around, having had a referendum in Scotland,

and say, tell you what, we do not care what you think. Why should a

referendum simply be advisory? Why don't we take the view that it will

be binding, but Westminster accepts it is a binding referendum? One at

a time. It is important that if we are moving to separation we do it

amicably. I would have thought that having both Westminster and the

Scottish Government clear that it will be a fair referendum with a

fair question, then that is the best way forward. Do you think that

they are trying to park their tanks on your lawn? All the parties in

Westminster are all over the place. Scott learned -- the Scottish

National Party has a mandate to hold this referendum. The Scottish

Affairs Committee, it is absolutely irrelevant, it is a sideshow, it is

not a committee made up of Scottish MPs. As we approach... As we

approach the referendum, there has to be a prospectus that will

outline what independence and the other choices would mean. It is the

status quo. But in terms of Mr Davidson's chairmanship of the

committee, I do not think he has too much credibility on harmonious

discussion. Mr Davidson has referred to the SNP as neo-fascists.

Unacceptable language on what should be a very good debate on the

future of the country. When the country decided to do this it was

unanimous. There was not a single vote against. Representatives of

all political parties in Scotland were in agreement. What exactly is

the relevant Sardar you are going to ask questions in this inquiry,

Ian Davidson. You have taught about the six points, or what other boys

would you like clarified? The whole point of a qualification is that we

are asking the people of Scotland to tell us what they want clarified.

As a constituency MP I want to see what is going to happen to the

shipyards clarified. Well, we can't cover everything, so... We cannot

even get the language in a constructive tone. It is not

separation, it is independence, it is perfectly normal around the

world, so why the pejorative language? The Poles do suggest that

independence is more popular than the alternatives. -- Poles. It

appears it is Mr Davidson who's out of step with the people of Scotland

and his own voters. Derek Mackay it seems to be making quite a good

point, that Labour are not only losing the argument in Scotland but

in the UK? That is why we need a referendum on the question of

separation and we accept that. There will now be a referendum on

separation and what we are saying is that firstly, it has got to be

run properly. Most fans, a snowdrift questions... This is

ridiculous. There will be up an independent body -- are there will

be an independent body... It will be a referendum of the highest

standards. Quite a heated debate. When we can use Midge Ure language

and described... -- Midge Ure language. Labour leadership, are

you going to stand for any post? Yes, I will be standing as deputy

leader. We had a meeting this morning and it was agreed that I

would go forward. Thank you for your time this morning. When you

think of big money-makers in the Scottish economy, what comes to

mind? Foyle, whisky, tourism? Figures showed that more people are

choosing to holiday here. The tourism industry generates �4

billion a year and employs tens of thousands of people. But despite

its economic importance, many you working the industry do not feel

How to turn spectators into buyers, at this year's Scottish ski and

outdoor show, will be a challenge but it is one the industry is

taking on. New figures reveal between January and June 2011,

domestic visits or staycations, to Scotland, rose by 6%. But there has

been an a % decrease in overseas visits. That is compared to an

increase of 7% across the UK. international visitors have not

come in the amounts we wanted but they are a small part of our

overall tourism market. And if the marketing expenditure is limited,

you focus market expenditure on the bulk of your tourists, who come

from domestic locations. So the big focus for us has got to beat

England, the rest of Scotland. That is where we have the possibility to

make money in a recession. This pub in Perthshire uses a website to

promote itself but despite staycations, business is slow.

has been a difficult year. We have not had much business at all from

Visit Scotland. We put a lot into letting people know we are here. We

try our hardest to work with other businesses in the tourism trade.

One business they work with his Big Tree Campervans. The tourism

industry generates �4 billion a year and the mobile phone business

is part of that. The owner here believes his sector should receive

more support to help increase turnover. My biggest fear is we

forget some of the emerging markets, camper vans, motor homes,

watersports and active leisure areas, and do not focus on them

enough and really understand what makes those areas tick and do

things with those to bring visitors into the country. In the winter

months, Scottish cities can target the conference market and weekend

breaks but rural areas struggle. If the tourism industry is to thrive,

it needs to ensure that people who make staycations return. We have

seen the beaches, which is great but some of the attractions have

been closed. I would have loved to have had a bit more of the local

fish. You can see that there is a lot of fish being farmed here and

there but you cannot buy it. Scottish ski results will be hoping

for a long, cold and snowy winter to draw in the crowds. The growth

of the staycation is having an impact across the world. It is

challenging but we definitely have a local market that was helping as

well. Due to the general downturn, it is obvious that the tourism

sector is what is suffering. They made more funds available for us to

fight. With the 2012 Olympics approaching, Scotland must compete

with London for its share of the market. The spotlight will be on

the UK but London specifically, but it is on the rest of the UK. There

is a lot of displacement that will take place within the UK, I eat

people who would like to go to London but can't because the rooms

are full. -- I mean people... the World Wide economy still wobbly,

the challenge Scotland faces is to hold on to these staycation as and

keep the international tourism on board.

We have a couple of leading businessmen in the tourism industry,

Robin Worsnop, chief executive of Rabbies Small Group Tours, and also

the head of Edinburgh's Tourism Action Group, and the managing

director of Crieff Hydro, Stephen Leckie, who is also the chair of

the Scottish Tourism Forum. Stephen Leckie, give us an idea of how well

Scotland has done in the last season. It seems the UK market is

propping up the industry. The most recent statistics tell us that

Scotland has performed very well this year and what am hearing is

that in central Scotland, that is so. Up north and in rural areas it

is a bit more tricky. In Crieff Hydro we are having a good year and

that is after a significant investment in the last two years.

Robin, things like fuel prices must have an impact on people travelling

up, for example, from the south of England. Yes, it is definitely

having an effect in the roar parts of the country. The central belt is

doing well. I was surprised by the international figures that came out

for the six months of the year because our experience has been

completely the opposite of that and people I have been speaking to have

been doing particularly well in this area. And we did not have the

ash cloud disaster of April hitting us in 2011. We didn't have the

sunshine either. I was very surprised to see these figures.

What have you learned from these international tourists who come

over here. What do they tell you about why they are choosing

Scotland? I believe we have been a national competitive competitor

since the Stirling devalued against the euro. Scotland has iconic

assets. The Edinburgh festivals, the Highlands, the scenery. And the

friendliness of the people here is a superb thing that visitors want

to enjoy. Stephen Leckie, there seems to be some sense that lots of

folk who work in the tourism industry think they do not get the

attention they deserve. Is that your Gazette didn't -- perception?

A joint this industry 30 years ago and even then there was this chap

but tourism is one of the key drivers for economic growth in

Scotland. Tourism has devolved and that is good news. We have a very

able Visit Scotland marketing Scotland and that makes Scotland

the envy of the rest of the world for having a large publicly-funded

marketing body and then it is for the Private Business, people like

me and Robin, to work that out and persuade people to come to Scotland.

Her attitudes then changed to Visit Scotland, because for a long time

the debate was that people who worked in the tourism sector did

not feel it delivered for them? Has that changed? Perhaps there are

some really high expectations of what Visit Scotland can achieve for

the industry. In some terms it is measured at �4 billion. Other

measurements are �11.5 billion. It cannot be expected to deliver

everything for the industry itself. I believe that those who are doing

well have invested heavily in their customer experience and in their

product, and they are getting the word of mouth or what is commonly

referred to as the world of mouth, driving their business forward

today. Stephen Leckie, how do you hold on to these staycations,

because the minute the economy goes up, people will think, I tell you

what, I would rather go and see the sunshine? In Crieff Hydro, it is

not just about giving customers the bed space and food but many other

things in our result, persuading them that Crieff Hydro is the Eric

Joyce in Scotland to keep coming back to. So is that focusing on

service? It is about high quality, value for money, Investment back

into the product and the staff, having Chris Tapp, happy staff, who

want to look after our customers. - - having the good staff. A lot of

people have complaints about service. They do, but I think that

is often people with in Scotland who have a very high expectation.

When you look at surveys for people who visit the country, they show