04/12/2011 The Politics Show Scotland

We may have less than a week to save the euro. Nicolas Sarkozy is

trying to prevent a collapse with Angela Merkel. They're talking

about individual members having less control over tax and spend.

The Energy Secretary wants tens of thousands more turbines to run

every car in the land. On the Politics Show Scotland: We

will bring you the first pictures of those pandas arriving in

Edinburgh as we look at the bigger picture of Sino-Scottish relations.

What could and should they be? Conflicting signals on the economic

front. New independent analysis predicts Scotland faces a lost

decade of growth. But our key exports are booming as the

government announces a �60 billion infrastructure plan. And life after

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1763 seconds

I hope we will see a commanding package from European leaders. We

have to give support to the ECB which so far has been denied by the

leaders of Europe. There is a fundamental problem that Nicolas

Sarkozy and Angela Merkel don't see it in the same way. I think there

will probably be a joint paper produced by the friend and the

Germans. That will probably look at how do you make sure there is

better supervision of the economies within the eurozone. That carries

with it quite significant implications in terms of the

broader functioning of the EU. Would you support a referendum

about a treaty change? The lot is that there should be a referendum

if there is a significant change of powers, but let's see what happened

next week. I can see how fiscal union could solve the problems

going forwards. But we have a continent completely crippled by

debt. Countries on the periphery like Greece are not competitive.

Does the eurozone have to stay as constituted? It is for the eurozone

to make those judgements. There was speculation that Greece might leave

in the past. We should be clean and categoric. It is in Britain's

interest that the eurozone resolves its problems. Schadenfreude is not

a good economic strategy for Britain at the moment. What is a

good strategy for Labour in this position? It has been been -- it

has been broadly pro-Europe. You are suggesting a more scepticism?

Towards the single currency, as was the case in the past. Economics

should lead the policy. Resuming Tain a position that economics lead

to politics. Rob Lee, we need a clear headed sense of where our

national interest if -- national interest is. We have just had a

conversation about climate change. The way we can advance global

public goods. Our interests are amplified by being part of the EU.

We also are part of a global market. Deval -- David Cameron has to

secure the interests of 500 million people. Are you sure you can get

away with being in the single market if you're not in the fiscal

We have heard about the warning of people caught kissing against

Ache you could have an emergency brake. There are various ways you

can work to protect Britain's national interests. That requires a

prime minister that knows what his priorities are. My genuine fear is

that if you maintain the position you were overriding national

interest is the repatriation of powers, not only will you likely be

unsuccessful, but you will not get the guarantees that the British

economy so desperately needs. Later, the political impact of

Good afternoon and welcome to the Politics Show Scotland. As panda

politics puts on a kilt, we will bring you live pictures of Yang

Guang and Tian Tian as they are flown into Edinburgh. They are the

latest recruits to the diplomatic circuit, a tradition launched in

1972, with Pat Nixon, America's First lady, welcoming Ling Ling and

Sing Sing to Washington. I think pandemonium will break out.

But on the other bear market, it is far from black and white. A new

forecast of a lost decade of growth is running alongside booming

Scottish exports. We will also investigate a powerful

new prescription for tackling illness, empowering people in

deprived communities, to have more say how they are run.

What we know is that people who lack a sense of control over their

lives are less likely... And as Annabelle Goldie focuses on

keeping Scotland in the UK, we get her reflections from the back

benches on life after leadership. But first, here's the lunchtime

news. Two giant pandas from China are due

to arrive in Scotland in a little over half an hour's time. Tian Tian

and Yang Guang - known as Sweetie and Sunshine - will spend the next

decade on loan at Edinburgh Zoo. It is thought they could attract up to

a million visitors a year. The zoo's chief executive says it is a

big moment for everyone. It is tremendous. After all of

these years of planning, today is the day that these two Panda Bears

are arriving. The A96 between Aberdeen and

Inverness is to be turned into a dual carriageway the Scottish

Government has exclusively revealed to BBC Scotland. Work on the �3

billion project is expected to begin in 2016. The announcement

comes ahead of the publication of the government's capital spending

plan this week. Ministers say they will invest billions of pounds in

over 80 schemes. We are saying that by 2030 at the

latest, we want every city in Scotland linked up by either dual-

carriageway or motorway. We're not just intending to do all the A9,

also the A96 between Aberdeen and Inverness.

Sleet and snow have been falling in parts of west, northern and central

Scotland, causing disruption on the roads. Police had to clear a jack-

knifed lorry off the M8 near Livingston. A woman was taken to

hospital in Perth with minor injuries after a her car crashed in

icy conditions near Dunkeld. In all, Tayside Police report seven

accidents due to the wintry weather conditions. On a lighter note, this

was the scene in Edinburgh Zoo where the penguins certainly felt a

where the penguins certainly felt a little more at home in not quite

Antarctic conditions. Plenty of showers to come across so

when -- Weston, central and northern parts. -- West Ern. There

is an amber warning for snow over they had -- the higher ground of

many parts of the country. Some brightness in between showers. It

brightness in between showers. It will stay cold. Breezy as well.

That's all for now. I'm back at 6:15pm this evening with another

update. I will now hand you back to Isabel for the rest of the Politics

Show. The story of the day is focused on

Edinburgh Zoo. Our reporter is on the tarmac at Edinburgh Airport.

This deal has been a long time in the making. What you think is its

significant? Yes, it has. Five years of

negotiations. It has diplomatic significance, trade significance.

It is interesting that the First Minister is in China at the moment.

I am sure he will be working to help build trade ties. It is a

commercial arrangement and there is Conservation involved. Although the

Chinese have done a great deal of work on their own, they do like to

involve the world community and make sure that people know about

conserving these animals. We have expertise here in Edinburgh with a

prominent vet School and expert geneticists. There is a feeling

that this can help feed into preserving the species for future

generations. Panda bears are very famous and there are 300 in reserve

in says Shaw and problems. There are only 1,500 in the wild -- in

one province. What actually happens at the

airport? What will we see? Well, I think it will be very

exciting. Many people watching what is going on. The runway is being

clear of sleet and snow. The animals will arrive to my left and

come along the runway behind me. They will finish up 100 feet away

from our camera. We will see them through their perspex Keech as they

come -- through their Perspex containers and they will be

transported in special trucks do Edinburgh Zoo.

These very important animals will get a police escort to Edinburgh

Zoo. The motorcade will come along the road and stopped outside the

zoo. In the distance, you can hear bagpipes. They will play for the

animals as they are led into their enclosures. 100 school children are

expected to welcome the animals. There is a lot of hope riding on

the shoulders of these giant pandas for these two. They are spending

�70,000 just to import bamboo for them. Within the first year, they

expect visitor numbers to sewer by about 70%. This zoo is a charity

and they do expect to spend a lot of that money on conservation and

research. They have their fingers crossed that this pair of adults

will produce a pair of cubs. We will return to that story when

it they arrived. We're joined by Patrick Harvie to

discuss wider trade links with China. In in bra, we have the

Mandarin speaking Chief Executive of Scottish Financial Enterprise.

The First Minister is making his third visit to China on this trade

mission. Before we talk about a wider politics, how important is it

that he makes this personal contact? Very important because the

Chinese appreciate the continuous effort made by Scottish politicians

to keep a very consistent relation ship -- relationship with the

Chinese government and people. There has been over 10 years of

work and effort by Scottish politicians to promote that link.

The Chinese appreciate and recognise these efforts and

commitment. The animal, the panda, is a token of friendship. So this

matters in Chinese culture, interaction? It does, in terms of

promoting the links between these countries there must be political

engagement followed by personal and cultural links. This is a package

of relationships and it is the way that China deals with other

countries are. Several Scottish exports are doing very well in

China, but they are looking at engineering, education, tourism and

renewables. Given the dire financial straits everyone is in,

it is sensible to be trying to promote new relationships with

China to develop sustainable growth with them? Stronger relationships

with any country is important. Around the world, people are

looking at the increasing importance of China. Even before

Scotland becomes an independent country, if that is to happen, it

is crucial that we try to develop links with other countries. The

aspect that is missing so far is what kind of relationships would

Scotland have with other countries if we were independent? I think the

Scottish Government has the opportunity to start to articulate

that. Would be be the kind of country that its human-rights

issues front and sector -- front and central? Would we engage with

undemocratic and repressive countries in a different way from

democratic ones? That does not mean that you do not try to find

economic benefits, but I think you have to engage differently and find

ways to facilitate not just economic links but things like

human rights activism, environmental protection. That

seems to be missing so far. I hope that in can develop. You were the

private secretary to Jack McConnell when he visited China and raised

human rights issues. How difficult It is a well established dialogue.

I was involved in some of the discussions between the UK

Government and the Chinese government. There is something a

little formulaic, both understand each other's position. But we

should not overlook the context of human rights in China. When you

discuss these things with the Chinese ministers they will always

talk about the value they place on basic human rights, freedom from

starvation and so on, and these are not trivial issues there. The

progress made in the last 20 years there is considerable.

Do you think China can be completely immune to what is going

on economically in the rest of the world or are we already seen with

the fall in growth that there will be some impact from the Euro zone.

Yes. Just this week we received delegations from China and that is

well understood among stay of policy makers that any idea we had

a couple of the years ago what that the economy could be decouple from

the rest of the world, it simply is not the case. There is concern

about how demand -- a reduction in demand in the West will have an

impact on Chinese economic growth. That is a very big issue in China

where economic growth is essential to the Communist Party's plans for

continuing to open up. Looking at what Scotland has which

China may want, where are the most optimistic areas for relationships

and sustainable growth? Both have identified key areas for

promoting links. Renewables has been a key area. Educational

exchanges. Introducing the Mandarin language to Scotland. That is

another key area are we are focusing on. Tourism, food and

drinks, there has been a good range of sectors which Scotland can

promote to China and also of the Chinese business and investors have

been looking at opportunities to invest in Scotland also. It works

both ways. When we talk about learning

Mandarin, is there a sense that on the languages front, or even the

renewables front, that this is being taken seriously?

Opportunities are being seen. Whether the Government is doing

everything it can to explore them remains to be seen. But there are

consequences to these issues. There is a huge opportunity to look at

renewables. But we should be looking at how China is developing

renewables. If they are increasing Hydro, for example, does that

include a larger scale clearances of people from land to build dams?

If we're talking about exporting salmon from Scotland to China, what

is the environmental impact here? They are a range of good and bad

practices here in Scotland when it comes to Salmond fishing. We need

to think about the environmental consequences for native and wild

salmon stocks as well as the local environ mental consequences. I

would like to see these opportunities explore but for the

Scottish Government to be proactive in terms of a human rights analysis

of doing deals. An environmentally analysis of doing deals also. Then

let's judge what the correct opportunities are to exploit, based

not only on economics but in by the mental and social factors also.

Realistically, do you think that politicians will have this at the

forefront of their mind? I know this will sound distasteful to

Pratt trick, but that there has to be a political realism?

Realistically what is the best that Scotland can hope for from China?

A couple of points. Firstly, putting to one side any party

politics about the constitutional future of the country, it as the

case that the relationship with the UK and China is strong and

influential and in the short term we should take full advantage of

that. On the wider question raised by Patrick, from my own perspective,

these are very important issues, there are some very egregious

individual cases but we should not allow that to determine the

totality of the relationship. There is so much opportunity here. I

would argue that so far we have not got to grips with the scale of the

opportunity and the amount of work we must per tonne to take advantage.

So what are the opportunities? And what are only needing to do that

we're not doing at this stage? If financial services, renewables,

it is interesting that the Chinese are adopting Borth so we must move

quickly and cannot assume that this is a static situation where our

technology is ahead of theirs. What really strikes me is that doing

business in China is multi- dimensional. You need the support

of government, the embassy, and real excellent products to sell. So

in many ways we are looking at a big step change in the over all

recognition of the scale of the task.

Thank you all very much indeed. The past week has seen economic

forecast sharply reduced with a big impact on government borrowing and

alarming warnings about the impact of the Euro zone collapse. Can it

be that bad? Some parts of the economy have done better than

others. Other Deane, for instance. That were reset bent -- cent hour

business editor. Our love Beth challenge is greater

than we thought because the boom was a beggar and the bust was hard.

-- hour debt. The chief economic adviser to the

Scottish Government says that given the nature of the downturn and

unknown risks in Europe of volatility is likely to be even

more pronounced. That is underlined by be ITEM Club group of economists

who monitor the economy and will tomorrow state that we are facing

eye-watering losses. There are forecast is sharply down. But in

some parts of the economy things do not look so bad. Whisky exports are

up 23%. The premium end of the business is

doing well and growth is coming from emerging-markets.

The downturn does not seem so bad in Aberdeen where governments --

businesses were to the fluctuations of the global oil market. The price

of benchmark Brent crude pumped just off the sea bed here has

remained relatively stable and high. Bad news for those of us filling up

the tanks in our cars but a high Loyer -- a high oil price keeps the

economy here motoring. There is talk of an industry at the

end of its natural life cycle but in terms of oil and gas we're

talking another 40 to 50 years of productivity. And then top of that

the potential to diversify into renewables where a lot of companies

seek good investments. The oil and gas industry is seen as leading the

UK out of recession. That can only be good news for the north-east of

Scotland. You can see and feel hear how the

economy is thriving. Farms are not just exporting but moving into

renewable energy. Or one Aberdeen a farm -- 1 Aberdeen company is

taking business from the North Sea to the deep water of Brazil and

Angola. There is an absolute buzz here.

Unemployment is only 1.4 % here. Some of the wages are you are

throwing at people here in Aberdeen is unbelievable.

This part of Scotland is particularly interested and

infrastructure spend. The City has long awaited -- long awaited a

railroad and better links with Inverness and Dundee. With work

already underway on the new Forth crossing this week MSPs will hear

ministers updated plans. 50 new projects such as roads, bridges

ports, housing, and schools. We are looking to dual the it a 96.

-- de A96. We're also looking at upgrades to the railway network.

Between Aberdeen and Inverness, Inverness and the central belt, and

even further down the country. We are actively looking at improving

the rail network and the service to Stranraer.

Another eagerly awaited announcement regards for enterprise

zones. Sectors where tax breaks and special helps with skills will be

targeted. In the past, Enterprise has focused on areas in the

greatest need of help, with the highest deprivation. Now it is

expected the government will focus on areas with the highest potential

for growth. That leads to the question as to whether Aberdeen and

the north-east will benefit to the expense of others facing the

toughest of times. There I am now joined by one of the

authors of the ITEM Club report, the deputy convener of the Holyrood

a comic can meet -- committee, under Labour spokesperson for

infrastructure. -- the Holyrood economic committee. What is your

assessment of the most worrying.? The Euro zone crisis. That can

derail all the forecasts. If you listen to the Chancellor and the

Bank of England you can hear them say they have made forecasts on the

basis of the Euro zone hanging together. As have a week. Let's say

it does. There will be at least another two years of slow, grinding

growth. That does damage to the productive abilities of the economy

over that period. It means we are losing economic activity that we

will never forget back. In that more than normal recession she

might lose economic activity but you bounce-back and catch up. In

this episode we look like we are going to be permanently poorer in

the long term. That has all sorts of implications in terms of public

expenditure, household prospects, how young people feel about their

life prospects, their ability to get jobs, so on, and so forth.

What can the domestic government do? Given the scenario you have

outlined, if the Euro zone imploded - and it looks like our fortunes

are tied to the Bundesbank - what can be done?

The Bank of England captain to react to a Euro zone blow up but we

live in an interconnected world. -- can attempt to react. Growth in the

emerging world is putting a high floor under the oil price. That is

good news for Aberdeen but hark -- tough news for the rest of us

because it acts as a tax on us in the developed world. But how useful

will investment in infrastructure be? You're basically shuffling

money around the pot. You can argue that the infrastructure investment

helps if it helps us over a long period of time to go our economy

and make it more efficient. But it is not a solution which will

suddenly left us to high growth rates in the short term. It is

about the long-term potential and how much our economy grows.

We seem to be getting conflicting signals about the economy. Export,

whisky, salmon, manufacturing - these have been phenomenally well.

Whisky has recently had a �3 billion. So given our exports are

doing well, is the picture really so grim and Scotland?

We do have great exporters here but when you think about it UK exports

are up about 17% yet according to the official data series Scottish

exports are led up 7%. So whilst we have some great exporters and real

export champions I do not North we have enough companies at the top of

the First Division who could easily play in the Premier League. -- I do

not know. But presumably they trade

delegation to China is well timed? That is fair. We need to find new

markets. Your reaction to what the ITEM Club

It is not unsurprising that they have come up with these figures.

The Scottish Government is trying to work around these figures and

make sure that we come through this situation stronger and better.

Hence the reason why they have put emphasis on capital investment

projects to keep the economy moving and jobs. And make sure we ride

this situation better than other parts of the UK. You must welcome

that, surely, and particularly the Investment in improving roads?

of the projects would be welcome, but unfortunately my understanding

is simply confirmation of projects which have already been agreed and

for which the funding had previously been allocated. I know

that the Scottish Government cut capital spending faster than at the

UK Government. Although they often say things that we agree with in

terms of capital spending, that proof of the pudding is what they

actually do it and they do not have a good record. I know Aberdeen well.

One of the constraints on the economy there is the lack of public

sector investment in housing. We have a booming private sector, but

a stagnant public sector which has not investing in social housing.

The Scottish Government has announced plans to cut the housing

budget in half. Do you no details yet of the consequential loss?

don't. That is part of the difficulty as negotiations are

still taking place. These are not all the issues of what drive the

Scottish Government. They have identified a number of projects we

want to see being delivered. Some of them might have been pre-

announced, but it is pulling those resources together to make sure we

deliver on those projects to secure the economy. It is about giving the

economy confidence in Scotland to allow other sectors to feel the

buoyancy that exists in Scotland. To allow that opportunity to take

place. If we stop that type of investment, we are sending out that

wrong types of message to others in the sector. In terms of confidence,

we were expecting to know where the enterprise zones would be and what

they are by the end of this month. Do we have that? I am not privy to

ministerial discussions, but clearly There are a number of

factors in play. We want to make sure we don't fall into that same

traps as the 1980s and make sure we're developing the UMPIRE: -- we

are developing the areas that are appropriate. And ones which can

deliver the best benefit for the investment that he explains. What

do you make of that? It fit it is not the most deprived areas that

they would often go to? We have a worry about enterprise zones in

general. They did not work in the previous model. It created short-

term employment in that specific location. Looking over a ten-year

period, it was clear that those jobs had simply been displaced from

one community to another. Many communities would love something

new to be done, especially where regeneration funding has been cut

back. For them, that might be a great opportunity. But the evidence

is that what they do is very short term and very local and doesn't

actually create employment itself. Well-targeted public investment can

create employment, especially when combined with private funding. But

nothing we have heard yet from the Government at Westminster or

Holyrood gives me confidence that they will be a any better than 30

years ago. That is part of the discussions which are run going.

The private sector, local authorities, COSLA, Scottish

Enterprise are looking at the resources available and how to use

them to best ad vantage. -- best advantage. That will hopefully

spread to the rest of the economy and will create jobs. We should

know in the early spring? Hopefully early next year. What about that,

and that work forces should be far more flexible? He has a point. He

has always been the drum to encourage people to realise how

much employment there is in the oil industry. I have mentioned already

the lack of investment in rented housing. We think that is really

important. There is an issue around training and skills. Access to

trained technicians is difficult as well as graduate engineers. We have

a real concern about this year's Scottish Budget and cutting

education. We think that will only damage six Cecil industries --

successful industries in Scotland. Thank you. We can now see pictures

of Tian Tian and Yang Guang arriving in Edinburgh. You can hear

the bagpipes. The headline writers were beside themselves with

happiness this morning. -- P-Day landings etc... I am listening this

is the first time that the animals will have heard bagpipes. We all

return to that when we see them being unloaded.

Now let's cross to Glenn Campbell in Beijing, where we are following

the First Minister's trade mission. What does he want to get out of

this trip? I suppose it seems quite strange that as the pandas have

flown West to Scotland that the First Minister has flown east. He

was joking that it was a two-for- one deal. Whilst we get to keep the

pandas and hopefully they will entertain us for 10 years, he has

only 10 days here in China. It is his third visit, but he is seeking

to impress the authorities and impress business year to try to

build-up Scotland's trade and cultural links with China. This is

already the world's second largest economy and it is still growing. It

has slowed slightly lately. The First Minister sees an opportunity

for a Scottish business to do deals here. And perhaps for China to

invest in Scotland. We have been hearing in the studio that it is

very a urgent politically that Scotland develops new markets like

China. Do you think there is fire under the feet of this business and

they have to come home with something sustainable? Well, I

think the imperative is certainly there when you consider the current

economic situation. We're looking at a return to recession in the UK,

and if not that then a prolonged period of a very low growth. We

can't seek to Europe because The Apprentice -- pretty much in the

same boat. Even though things have slowed a little in China, they

still have trillions of dollars available to invest in Scottish

Asset Management and spend in the development of renewable energy

technology in Scotland. These are the sorts of deals the First

Minister would like to see done. Briefly, we have heard how

important it is to have personal contact in China. This is the First

Minister's third visit there. What is the personal interaction for him,

do you think? Will, I think it is certainly important. -- well. One

thing I have learned here is that in order to do good business there

must be good relations and a mutual understanding of history and

culture. That is why when the premier came to the UK, he started

his visit at the birthplace of Shakespeare. The First Minister has

been visiting the ancient tombs where emperors are visited.

Tomorrow, he will sign at cultural agreement with the Chinese

government. That is thought that will underpin a prosperous

relationship between our two countries. Thank you.

Giving people a greater say in the way their communities are run could

be the route to improving the nation's health. That is the idea

behind the assets approach. Championed by Scotland's Chief

Medical officer Harry Burns, it makes a link between how much

control people feel they have over their own lives and ill health. It

is being piloted on two estates, one in Clackmannanshire, the other

in Kilmarnock in East Ayrshire, where we sent our reporter to take

a look at how it works. These nine-year-old girls are

planning a menu for a Christmas party. This centre is based in

Kilmarnock, the setting for the controversial documentary series,

this scheme. The area has high levels of ill-health and

unemployment. The volunteers that the project want to give children a

greater say in the way that things are run to help turn around their

future. People say that the return of problems is not having control

over their own lives. We want these children to have control over what

they want to do with their lives. We're helping them achieve things

in their education that the maybe did not think the car could achieve.

It is proving popular with the children's. I like playing, like,

well on the computer. I got help to pass my test for. Solutions at this

project come from within the community, not imposed from outside.

These skills are already in the community. It is not about money.

We are the assets of the community working with young people who are

the assets of the future. That is the message this police sergeant is

trying to get across. He is working with the council and other agencies

to listen to the community to find out how they can help them to help

themselves. It is not easy. A lot of community members are very keen.

Momentum is picking up. The more that people learned about it, the

more they are prepared to come on board. This estate in Cornwall is

the inspiration behind the project. In the early 1990s, it was very

deprived. By the year 2,000, crime had fallen by half and child

protection cases dropped by 40%. Unemployment was down by 70% for.

It felt like a bottomless pit of need on this one is state. Everyone

else was looking the other way. The difference for us, I think was that

we felt differently and we saw the community and the residents as the

solution to the problems we were having, and not the problem.

was invited to spread the word about her work at a conference in

Stirling. People who lack a sense of control over their lives are

less likely... This approach attempts to activate and energise

and develop within individuals a sense of being able to be in

control, a sense of moving forward into the future, a sense of wanting

to do the right thing for their health. For example, less likely to

smoke and more likely to exercise. It is not just about that. It is

about being in control over the more complex social interactions as

well. At the north-west youth projects, they are confident that

they are run the Reich tracks. will be issued for the community. -

- that they are all on at the right track. It only takes a few people

to put the wheels in motion. Five residents initially put the wheels

in motion. That grew to 25. Then 100. Then eventually the whole

community of 6,000. It is unbelievable that change. It is a

joy to be there now. People working in these Scottish communities hope

the same will be said about their progress as in the improvement in

What sort of work are you involved I am with the violence reduction

Unit. The assets approach involves ordinary people doing extraordinary

things. Each of us has an asset of some kind, be it a basic skill or

teaching a subject in school. We're attempting to roll these assets out

into the wider community. If we go back to the fundamental

premise, what is the link between feeling you have no control over

your life and mental and physical well-being?

Future. That has been shown in lot of different studies in the various

different aspects. -- it is huge. The Whitehall study was completely

unexpected. It looked at the health of local managers and it was

discovered that the high up you where the less stress you had and

the better your health. It was the junior workers in organisations

that had the worst health. It became clear that it was about

control. Having control over your life, been able to make decisions

for yourself, been able to say yes or no, it is hugely significant for

health and it is not taken on board adequately by people who provide

services. In Glasgow, for example, services provide for people but in

a way that undermines them and does not give them control. So we should

not expect health benefits even though we are spending money on

regeneration. It is interesting that the

discourse surrounding health the talks about ground up rather than

top down. Is there an awareness that we had not seen before?

Absolutely. We have turned the corner. People understand that you

can spend lots of money but if you do it in a way whereby you are

doing it to people, then they will not be as involved or think they

are the ones making a difference. How difference is it to get people

involved law? There could be an aspect of low self-confidence. When

you try to engage and energise a community how difficult can that be,

and can you always reach the kind of people that you want to reach?

It is a slow process. We tell people that at the start. We

attempt to gain trust and we avoid terms like project and initiative.

Because they come and go when funds run out. So we tell them, the only

promise we're making is to raise your hopes and aspirations and

empowered you to do things for your community.

What kind of things? You have to work alongside

different services from the public sector. We have had full strategic

by and from local councils and the police. They are keen to develop

the approach. Through listening events we locate the source of

energy, if you like. Each neighbourhood has won. Be that in

relation to anti-social behaviour, the housing stock, on employment,

every neighbourhood is unique. So people come for an say, these

are our priorities, this is what should happen, this is what we need

to do to make it happen? Absolutely. Like the youth projects

in Kilmarnock. But that is just one aspect of this approach. Another

example is an elderly chap who started an archery club. The term

is immaterial. The main part of the initiative is bringing together

young people with old people. Inter-generational, breaking down

barriers. It builds trust and people feel safe in one another's

company. Rebuilding community spirit then?

That is already there. It is about cohesion.

What seems to be a problem with other projects is that people do

engage and a keen on interaction but then the money goes and there

is no ongoing support. This surely must be an ongoing problem?

Yes. And what is different here is that if it is a shaft in the way

agencies were, if they see themselves as a catalyst and

enabler in supporting local people who are primarily in the driving

seat, then that is different. That is not a project, it is a different

style of working. If we can get that we have achieved something

genuinely different to what has gone before.

But can we always be confident of reaching the people will benefit

most? Are a lot of this is about seeing

people in a different way. Much more active in their lives. The

benefits for young people looking at those in their community and

seen them in charge of their lives, is huge.

Is it that you're experience? My colleagues working in this area

completely encourage this approach. We have discovered tremendous asset

to are already reaching the people you are talking about. They attend

a hour or monthly events. Each event is themed. Health, employment,

whatever it might be. These people meet the service providers face to

face and shape the services of the future.

Thank you very much. The Conservative back benches now,

where Annabel Goldie is focusing her political energies after

leadership on keeping Scotland in the Union. But life remains a

challenge. I asked her to reflect on her time at the helm.

Just about every day brought something you could not foresee.

That is the nature of politics. It is one of the most unpredictable

fields of activity you can imagine. That is what is exhilarating about

it. You never do quite know from one day to the next what will

happen. I always remember, I do not know it was my first speech to the

conference after becoming leader, but I was very nervous and remember

saying to everybody, is this in place? Is that in place? I drove

them round the bend, to be honest. Somebody eventually said, can down,

all you need to do is walk onto the stage, greet the audience and walk

to the microphone. For all the life of me I could not see any speech,

any piece of this lectern where you could conceal a speech, and then I

realised there was no speech at all! So why at two walk-on and

endeavour to cover up by eight saying openly, my appeals will be

enhanced if I know where the speech as! Somebody rushed on.

You have often used humour to defuse a hostile situations, and

then often used it as a weapon. There is a place for humour. It can

lighten or sharpen a situation. But you must be careful not in

deploying a shoe market to diminish or trivialise a situation. --

deployed in humour. I would hate to think I have ever done that. But it

can sometimes put people at ease or illustrate a point more graphically

than some other mode of approach. Sometimes the humour is just the

quickest way to uproot a we pen and a bit of pomposity.

Who will keep these two under control? Grab them by the short-

term car lease? Unfortunately for the First

Minister, patting himself on the back does not count as Physical

Education! You must respect the courage and

integrity of people who do make with you. But they too have a

obligation. -- people who it debate with you. You must not diminish

their debate with mindless attacks on opponents. That is denigrated

and self diminishing. I am not saying I have not stepped over the

line from time to time. I probably have. But as a rule, always

remember the arguments, what you are trying to communicate and why.

People would say that this persona has always been effective. Your

personal ratings have always been higher there than the party. Is

this something you have contrived to do because everybody needs a

shield in public life? What do you think that one of your strengths is

that you are 100% authentic? You have to be yourself. People can

agree or disagree but at least they know where you're coming from and

why. It would be good for politics if we could encourage more people

to be less obedient to the preconceived shape of what it is to

be a member of their party, and may be just a little more prepared from

time to time to beat themselves. Because you can do that without

being disloyal or causing difficulty to your party. I think

it might be a breath of fresh air in politics If we just got

Unleashed from time to time. There is a lot of vibration here!

It is liberating. Do not get me wrong, I loved being the leader. It

gave me pleasure and I could not have done it if that were not the

case. But I am very positive about the life I am rapidly rediscovering.

I have always been keen on board watching. In the air where I live

in Bishopton, near to the Clyde estuary, it is a marvellous place

for watching belts. It is relaxing and peaceful. -- bird watching. It

is pretty rich in diversity in terms of a wildlife here. The

greatest compliment I was paid by the media was being compared with

more prune. -- Maw Broon. You just have to let hostile comments at

roll off you. It is quite a discipline though.

I don't know. I am fortunate. I have a great family and friends.

Lots of interests. These were the things, for example the charge,

very important. -- the Church. I hoped that these things would

continue to keep me grounded. I never lost sight of the compass

point that I endeavoured to keep fixed upon. It was not about me. I

was not all that important in the whole thing. It was about the job I

had to do. To look back on today and ahead to

next week and joined now by a political correspondent and the

environmentally editor of the Sunday Herald. Have you taken time

out from visiting the zoo to be here?

No. It makes me queasy to be quite honest. Yes, there are important

elements, attractive animals, important things to say about our

relationship with China, but would I go to see them? North. Probably

yes if my kids were still young. So, flexible principles!

What I will say which is a bit cheeky as, I gather Alex Salmond

and Jeremy Clarkson are both in China right now. Wouldn't a swap of

be a good long-term arrangement! Speaking about renewables now, some

very interesting relationships have been set up about research and

exchange of renewables. Where is that going?

One of the problems with China is that it will build more coal-fired

power stations than anyone else and contribute a massive amount of

pollution which will wreck the climate in the future. So anything

we can do to persuade them to go more renewable is bound to be a

good thing. How persuasive our hour powers

these day if we are actually over there with the begging bowl, to be

blunt? On one level we have no choice but

to engage. The politics is very interesting. The constitutional

question is all wrapped up in this. These pandas have been gifted to do

it United Kingdom, say ministers, not Scotland. Alex Salmond and the

other hand emphasises that this it builds on the friendship and links

between Scotland and China. We were talking earlier about the

human rights question. Is this the correct climate to raise that, or

inevitably, will this be watered I think you would be wrong if Alex

Salmond comes back from China without their least raising the

issue of human rights because it is fundamental. There are many things

wrong with human rights in China. But one suspects he might do it on

a quiet because there are so many commercial opportunities. That is a

little uncomfortable for me. In the look at the new figures about the

economy and is critical meeting in terms of what happens in the

eurozone, we had a poor economic forecast and that was the best case

scenario. Do you think the penny has dropped with us all about what

could be coming down the road here? I don't think it has. I think there

is a slight Disconnect in Scotland where it seems to be regarded as

somebody else's problem. The SNP and Alex Salmond, who has a

background as an economist, are almost silent on this issue. That

said, all of the parties in Scotland are guilty to a similar

extent. The Scottish constitutional bobbled which thinks only about

internal matters of the constitution and not about arguably

much more important things going on in Europe. It is difficult to see

this going well. The direction of travel seems clear, closer fiscal

unity. But this could drag on for years and this is not what the

markets one. Do you think domestic politicians -- how much power do

domestic politicians have if that is the scenario we're moving

towards a? Less than they probably think they have. I am not an expert

on the eurozone. I like using Euros, but I worry about whether reckon

use them next year. Alex Salmond in China, will he make an influence?