04/12/2011 The Politics Show Scotland


04/12/2011

Political magazine presented by Jon Sopel and Isabel Fraser.


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We may have less than a week to save the euro. Nicolas Sarkozy is

:00:11.:00:18.

trying to prevent a collapse with Angela Merkel. They're talking

:00:18.:00:23.

about individual members having less control over tax and spend.

:00:23.:00:28.

The Energy Secretary wants tens of thousands more turbines to run

:00:28.:00:33.

every car in the land. On the Politics Show Scotland: We

:00:33.:00:36.

will bring you the first pictures of those pandas arriving in

:00:36.:00:40.

Edinburgh as we look at the bigger picture of Sino-Scottish relations.

:00:40.:00:43.

What could and should they be? Conflicting signals on the economic

:00:43.:00:46.

front. New independent analysis predicts Scotland faces a lost

:00:46.:00:49.

decade of growth. But our key exports are booming as the

:00:49.:00:54.

government announces a �60 billion infrastructure plan. And life after

:00:54.:01:04.
:01:04.:01:04.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1763 seconds

:01:04.:30:28.

I hope we will see a commanding package from European leaders. We

:30:28.:30:33.

have to give support to the ECB which so far has been denied by the

:30:33.:30:39.

leaders of Europe. There is a fundamental problem that Nicolas

:30:40.:30:43.

Sarkozy and Angela Merkel don't see it in the same way. I think there

:30:43.:30:46.

will probably be a joint paper produced by the friend and the

:30:46.:30:54.

Germans. That will probably look at how do you make sure there is

:30:54.:30:59.

better supervision of the economies within the eurozone. That carries

:30:59.:31:02.

with it quite significant implications in terms of the

:31:02.:31:07.

broader functioning of the EU. Would you support a referendum

:31:07.:31:13.

about a treaty change? The lot is that there should be a referendum

:31:13.:31:17.

if there is a significant change of powers, but let's see what happened

:31:17.:31:21.

next week. I can see how fiscal union could solve the problems

:31:21.:31:29.

going forwards. But we have a continent completely crippled by

:31:29.:31:39.
:31:39.:31:45.

debt. Countries on the periphery like Greece are not competitive.

:31:45.:31:50.

Does the eurozone have to stay as constituted? It is for the eurozone

:31:50.:31:57.

to make those judgements. There was speculation that Greece might leave

:31:57.:32:03.

in the past. We should be clean and categoric. It is in Britain's

:32:03.:32:07.

interest that the eurozone resolves its problems. Schadenfreude is not

:32:07.:32:14.

a good economic strategy for Britain at the moment. What is a

:32:14.:32:21.

good strategy for Labour in this position? It has been been -- it

:32:21.:32:28.

has been broadly pro-Europe. You are suggesting a more scepticism?

:32:28.:32:32.

Towards the single currency, as was the case in the past. Economics

:32:33.:32:41.

should lead the policy. Resuming Tain a position that economics lead

:32:41.:32:45.

to politics. Rob Lee, we need a clear headed sense of where our

:32:46.:32:52.

national interest if -- national interest is. We have just had a

:32:52.:33:01.

conversation about climate change. The way we can advance global

:33:01.:33:04.

public goods. Our interests are amplified by being part of the EU.

:33:04.:33:13.

We also are part of a global market. Deval -- David Cameron has to

:33:13.:33:21.

secure the interests of 500 million people. Are you sure you can get

:33:21.:33:25.

away with being in the single market if you're not in the fiscal

:33:25.:33:35.
:33:35.:33:44.

We have heard about the warning of people caught kissing against

:33:44.:33:54.
:33:54.:34:04.

Ache you could have an emergency brake. There are various ways you

:34:04.:34:09.

can work to protect Britain's national interests. That requires a

:34:09.:34:14.

prime minister that knows what his priorities are. My genuine fear is

:34:14.:34:19.

that if you maintain the position you were overriding national

:34:19.:34:24.

interest is the repatriation of powers, not only will you likely be

:34:24.:34:28.

unsuccessful, but you will not get the guarantees that the British

:34:28.:34:35.

economy so desperately needs. Later, the political impact of

:34:35.:34:45.
:34:45.:34:49.

Good afternoon and welcome to the Politics Show Scotland. As panda

:34:49.:34:52.

politics puts on a kilt, we will bring you live pictures of Yang

:34:52.:34:57.

Guang and Tian Tian as they are flown into Edinburgh. They are the

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latest recruits to the diplomatic circuit, a tradition launched in

:34:59.:35:02.

1972, with Pat Nixon, America's First lady, welcoming Ling Ling and

:35:02.:35:12.
:35:12.:35:16.

Sing Sing to Washington. I think pandemonium will break out.

:35:16.:35:20.

But on the other bear market, it is far from black and white. A new

:35:20.:35:23.

forecast of a lost decade of growth is running alongside booming

:35:23.:35:25.

Scottish exports. We will also investigate a powerful

:35:25.:35:27.

new prescription for tackling illness, empowering people in

:35:27.:35:30.

deprived communities, to have more say how they are run.

:35:30.:35:35.

What we know is that people who lack a sense of control over their

:35:35.:35:45.
:35:45.:35:47.

lives are less likely... And as Annabelle Goldie focuses on

:35:47.:35:50.

keeping Scotland in the UK, we get her reflections from the back

:35:50.:35:53.

benches on life after leadership. But first, here's the lunchtime

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news. Two giant pandas from China are due

:35:58.:36:01.

to arrive in Scotland in a little over half an hour's time. Tian Tian

:36:01.:36:05.

and Yang Guang - known as Sweetie and Sunshine - will spend the next

:36:05.:36:08.

decade on loan at Edinburgh Zoo. It is thought they could attract up to

:36:08.:36:12.

a million visitors a year. The zoo's chief executive says it is a

:36:12.:36:19.

big moment for everyone. It is tremendous. After all of

:36:19.:36:26.

these years of planning, today is the day that these two Panda Bears

:36:26.:36:31.

are arriving. The A96 between Aberdeen and

:36:31.:36:34.

Inverness is to be turned into a dual carriageway the Scottish

:36:34.:36:42.

Government has exclusively revealed to BBC Scotland. Work on the �3

:36:42.:36:44.

billion project is expected to begin in 2016. The announcement

:36:44.:36:47.

comes ahead of the publication of the government's capital spending

:36:47.:36:50.

plan this week. Ministers say they will invest billions of pounds in

:36:50.:36:52.

over 80 schemes. We are saying that by 2030 at the

:36:52.:36:57.

latest, we want every city in Scotland linked up by either dual-

:36:57.:37:04.

carriageway or motorway. We're not just intending to do all the A9,

:37:04.:37:09.

also the A96 between Aberdeen and Inverness.

:37:09.:37:12.

Sleet and snow have been falling in parts of west, northern and central

:37:12.:37:15.

Scotland, causing disruption on the roads. Police had to clear a jack-

:37:15.:37:20.

knifed lorry off the M8 near Livingston. A woman was taken to

:37:20.:37:23.

hospital in Perth with minor injuries after a her car crashed in

:37:23.:37:31.

icy conditions near Dunkeld. In all, Tayside Police report seven

:37:31.:37:34.

accidents due to the wintry weather conditions. On a lighter note, this

:37:34.:37:37.

was the scene in Edinburgh Zoo where the penguins certainly felt a

:37:37.:37:39.

where the penguins certainly felt a little more at home in not quite

:37:39.:37:45.

Antarctic conditions. Plenty of showers to come across so

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when -- Weston, central and northern parts. -- West Ern. There

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is an amber warning for snow over they had -- the higher ground of

:37:59.:38:06.

many parts of the country. Some brightness in between showers. It

:38:06.:38:13.

brightness in between showers. It will stay cold. Breezy as well.

:38:13.:38:16.

That's all for now. I'm back at 6:15pm this evening with another

:38:16.:38:19.

update. I will now hand you back to Isabel for the rest of the Politics

:38:19.:38:26.

Show. The story of the day is focused on

:38:26.:38:32.

Edinburgh Zoo. Our reporter is on the tarmac at Edinburgh Airport.

:38:32.:38:37.

This deal has been a long time in the making. What you think is its

:38:37.:38:43.

significant? Yes, it has. Five years of

:38:43.:38:49.

negotiations. It has diplomatic significance, trade significance.

:38:49.:38:53.

It is interesting that the First Minister is in China at the moment.

:38:53.:38:58.

I am sure he will be working to help build trade ties. It is a

:38:58.:39:02.

commercial arrangement and there is Conservation involved. Although the

:39:02.:39:09.

Chinese have done a great deal of work on their own, they do like to

:39:09.:39:12.

involve the world community and make sure that people know about

:39:12.:39:18.

conserving these animals. We have expertise here in Edinburgh with a

:39:18.:39:25.

prominent vet School and expert geneticists. There is a feeling

:39:25.:39:29.

that this can help feed into preserving the species for future

:39:29.:39:39.
:39:39.:39:41.

generations. Panda bears are very famous and there are 300 in reserve

:39:41.:39:48.

in says Shaw and problems. There are only 1,500 in the wild -- in

:39:48.:39:58.
:39:58.:39:58.

one province. What actually happens at the

:39:58.:40:04.

airport? What will we see? Well, I think it will be very

:40:04.:40:12.

exciting. Many people watching what is going on. The runway is being

:40:12.:40:16.

clear of sleet and snow. The animals will arrive to my left and

:40:16.:40:22.

come along the runway behind me. They will finish up 100 feet away

:40:22.:40:27.

from our camera. We will see them through their perspex Keech as they

:40:27.:40:33.

come -- through their Perspex containers and they will be

:40:33.:40:41.

transported in special trucks do Edinburgh Zoo.

:40:41.:40:45.

These very important animals will get a police escort to Edinburgh

:40:45.:40:51.

Zoo. The motorcade will come along the road and stopped outside the

:40:51.:40:59.

zoo. In the distance, you can hear bagpipes. They will play for the

:40:59.:41:05.

animals as they are led into their enclosures. 100 school children are

:41:05.:41:09.

expected to welcome the animals. There is a lot of hope riding on

:41:09.:41:19.
:41:19.:41:20.

the shoulders of these giant pandas for these two. They are spending

:41:20.:41:26.

�70,000 just to import bamboo for them. Within the first year, they

:41:26.:41:34.

expect visitor numbers to sewer by about 70%. This zoo is a charity

:41:34.:41:37.

and they do expect to spend a lot of that money on conservation and

:41:37.:41:45.

research. They have their fingers crossed that this pair of adults

:41:45.:41:52.

will produce a pair of cubs. We will return to that story when

:41:52.:42:01.

it they arrived. We're joined by Patrick Harvie to

:42:01.:42:08.

discuss wider trade links with China. In in bra, we have the

:42:08.:42:14.

Mandarin speaking Chief Executive of Scottish Financial Enterprise.

:42:14.:42:19.

The First Minister is making his third visit to China on this trade

:42:19.:42:24.

mission. Before we talk about a wider politics, how important is it

:42:24.:42:29.

that he makes this personal contact? Very important because the

:42:29.:42:36.

Chinese appreciate the continuous effort made by Scottish politicians

:42:36.:42:43.

to keep a very consistent relation ship -- relationship with the

:42:43.:42:46.

Chinese government and people. There has been over 10 years of

:42:46.:42:51.

work and effort by Scottish politicians to promote that link.

:42:51.:42:55.

The Chinese appreciate and recognise these efforts and

:42:55.:43:05.
:43:05.:43:09.

commitment. The animal, the panda, is a token of friendship. So this

:43:09.:43:14.

matters in Chinese culture, interaction? It does, in terms of

:43:14.:43:20.

promoting the links between these countries there must be political

:43:20.:43:25.

engagement followed by personal and cultural links. This is a package

:43:25.:43:32.

of relationships and it is the way that China deals with other

:43:32.:43:37.

countries are. Several Scottish exports are doing very well in

:43:37.:43:44.

China, but they are looking at engineering, education, tourism and

:43:44.:43:48.

renewables. Given the dire financial straits everyone is in,

:43:48.:43:52.

it is sensible to be trying to promote new relationships with

:43:52.:44:01.

China to develop sustainable growth with them? Stronger relationships

:44:01.:44:07.

with any country is important. Around the world, people are

:44:07.:44:13.

looking at the increasing importance of China. Even before

:44:13.:44:17.

Scotland becomes an independent country, if that is to happen, it

:44:18.:44:22.

is crucial that we try to develop links with other countries. The

:44:22.:44:27.

aspect that is missing so far is what kind of relationships would

:44:27.:44:32.

Scotland have with other countries if we were independent? I think the

:44:32.:44:36.

Scottish Government has the opportunity to start to articulate

:44:36.:44:39.

that. Would be be the kind of country that its human-rights

:44:39.:44:49.
:44:49.:44:50.

issues front and sector -- front and central? Would we engage with

:44:50.:44:53.

undemocratic and repressive countries in a different way from

:44:53.:44:57.

democratic ones? That does not mean that you do not try to find

:44:57.:45:01.

economic benefits, but I think you have to engage differently and find

:45:01.:45:06.

ways to facilitate not just economic links but things like

:45:06.:45:09.

human rights activism, environmental protection. That

:45:09.:45:15.

seems to be missing so far. I hope that in can develop. You were the

:45:15.:45:18.

private secretary to Jack McConnell when he visited China and raised

:45:18.:45:28.
:45:28.:45:32.

human rights issues. How difficult It is a well established dialogue.

:45:32.:45:36.

I was involved in some of the discussions between the UK

:45:36.:45:39.

Government and the Chinese government. There is something a

:45:39.:45:45.

little formulaic, both understand each other's position. But we

:45:45.:45:50.

should not overlook the context of human rights in China. When you

:45:50.:45:54.

discuss these things with the Chinese ministers they will always

:45:54.:45:59.

talk about the value they place on basic human rights, freedom from

:45:59.:46:04.

starvation and so on, and these are not trivial issues there. The

:46:04.:46:10.

progress made in the last 20 years there is considerable.

:46:10.:46:14.

Do you think China can be completely immune to what is going

:46:15.:46:18.

on economically in the rest of the world or are we already seen with

:46:18.:46:26.

the fall in growth that there will be some impact from the Euro zone.

:46:26.:46:31.

Yes. Just this week we received delegations from China and that is

:46:31.:46:35.

well understood among stay of policy makers that any idea we had

:46:35.:46:39.

a couple of the years ago what that the economy could be decouple from

:46:39.:46:47.

the rest of the world, it simply is not the case. There is concern

:46:47.:46:50.

about how demand -- a reduction in demand in the West will have an

:46:50.:46:56.

impact on Chinese economic growth. That is a very big issue in China

:46:56.:47:01.

where economic growth is essential to the Communist Party's plans for

:47:01.:47:07.

continuing to open up. Looking at what Scotland has which

:47:07.:47:12.

China may want, where are the most optimistic areas for relationships

:47:12.:47:20.

and sustainable growth? Both have identified key areas for

:47:20.:47:25.

promoting links. Renewables has been a key area. Educational

:47:25.:47:30.

exchanges. Introducing the Mandarin language to Scotland. That is

:47:30.:47:36.

another key area are we are focusing on. Tourism, food and

:47:36.:47:42.

drinks, there has been a good range of sectors which Scotland can

:47:42.:47:46.

promote to China and also of the Chinese business and investors have

:47:46.:47:51.

been looking at opportunities to invest in Scotland also. It works

:47:52.:47:57.

both ways. When we talk about learning

:47:57.:48:02.

Mandarin, is there a sense that on the languages front, or even the

:48:02.:48:08.

renewables front, that this is being taken seriously?

:48:08.:48:11.

Opportunities are being seen. Whether the Government is doing

:48:11.:48:16.

everything it can to explore them remains to be seen. But there are

:48:16.:48:21.

consequences to these issues. There is a huge opportunity to look at

:48:21.:48:25.

renewables. But we should be looking at how China is developing

:48:25.:48:31.

renewables. If they are increasing Hydro, for example, does that

:48:31.:48:35.

include a larger scale clearances of people from land to build dams?

:48:36.:48:41.

If we're talking about exporting salmon from Scotland to China, what

:48:41.:48:46.

is the environmental impact here? They are a range of good and bad

:48:46.:48:50.

practices here in Scotland when it comes to Salmond fishing. We need

:48:50.:48:54.

to think about the environmental consequences for native and wild

:48:54.:49:00.

salmon stocks as well as the local environ mental consequences. I

:49:00.:49:03.

would like to see these opportunities explore but for the

:49:03.:49:08.

Scottish Government to be proactive in terms of a human rights analysis

:49:08.:49:15.

of doing deals. An environmentally analysis of doing deals also. Then

:49:15.:49:18.

let's judge what the correct opportunities are to exploit, based

:49:18.:49:26.

not only on economics but in by the mental and social factors also.

:49:26.:49:30.

Realistically, do you think that politicians will have this at the

:49:30.:49:34.

forefront of their mind? I know this will sound distasteful to

:49:34.:49:41.

Pratt trick, but that there has to be a political realism?

:49:41.:49:47.

Realistically what is the best that Scotland can hope for from China?

:49:47.:49:53.

A couple of points. Firstly, putting to one side any party

:49:53.:49:56.

politics about the constitutional future of the country, it as the

:49:57.:50:02.

case that the relationship with the UK and China is strong and

:50:02.:50:05.

influential and in the short term we should take full advantage of

:50:05.:50:12.

that. On the wider question raised by Patrick, from my own perspective,

:50:12.:50:17.

these are very important issues, there are some very egregious

:50:17.:50:21.

individual cases but we should not allow that to determine the

:50:21.:50:26.

totality of the relationship. There is so much opportunity here. I

:50:26.:50:31.

would argue that so far we have not got to grips with the scale of the

:50:31.:50:38.

opportunity and the amount of work we must per tonne to take advantage.

:50:38.:50:42.

So what are the opportunities? And what are only needing to do that

:50:42.:50:50.

we're not doing at this stage? If financial services, renewables,

:50:50.:50:53.

it is interesting that the Chinese are adopting Borth so we must move

:50:53.:50:58.

quickly and cannot assume that this is a static situation where our

:50:58.:51:04.

technology is ahead of theirs. What really strikes me is that doing

:51:04.:51:07.

business in China is multi- dimensional. You need the support

:51:07.:51:13.

of government, the embassy, and real excellent products to sell. So

:51:13.:51:19.

in many ways we are looking at a big step change in the over all

:51:19.:51:24.

recognition of the scale of the task.

:51:24.:51:30.

Thank you all very much indeed. The past week has seen economic

:51:30.:51:34.

forecast sharply reduced with a big impact on government borrowing and

:51:34.:51:39.

alarming warnings about the impact of the Euro zone collapse. Can it

:51:39.:51:43.

be that bad? Some parts of the economy have done better than

:51:43.:51:51.

others. Other Deane, for instance. That were reset bent -- cent hour

:51:51.:51:58.

business editor. Our love Beth challenge is greater

:51:58.:52:08.
:52:08.:52:09.

than we thought because the boom was a beggar and the bust was hard.

:52:09.:52:15.

-- hour debt. The chief economic adviser to the

:52:15.:52:19.

Scottish Government says that given the nature of the downturn and

:52:19.:52:22.

unknown risks in Europe of volatility is likely to be even

:52:22.:52:29.

more pronounced. That is underlined by be ITEM Club group of economists

:52:29.:52:33.

who monitor the economy and will tomorrow state that we are facing

:52:33.:52:41.

eye-watering losses. There are forecast is sharply down. But in

:52:41.:52:47.

some parts of the economy things do not look so bad. Whisky exports are

:52:47.:52:52.

up 23%. The premium end of the business is

:52:52.:52:57.

doing well and growth is coming from emerging-markets.

:52:58.:53:02.

The downturn does not seem so bad in Aberdeen where governments --

:53:02.:53:08.

businesses were to the fluctuations of the global oil market. The price

:53:08.:53:13.

of benchmark Brent crude pumped just off the sea bed here has

:53:13.:53:17.

remained relatively stable and high. Bad news for those of us filling up

:53:17.:53:22.

the tanks in our cars but a high Loyer -- a high oil price keeps the

:53:22.:53:29.

economy here motoring. There is talk of an industry at the

:53:29.:53:33.

end of its natural life cycle but in terms of oil and gas we're

:53:33.:53:38.

talking another 40 to 50 years of productivity. And then top of that

:53:38.:53:43.

the potential to diversify into renewables where a lot of companies

:53:43.:53:48.

seek good investments. The oil and gas industry is seen as leading the

:53:48.:53:53.

UK out of recession. That can only be good news for the north-east of

:53:53.:53:59.

Scotland. You can see and feel hear how the

:53:59.:54:04.

economy is thriving. Farms are not just exporting but moving into

:54:04.:54:13.

renewable energy. Or one Aberdeen a farm -- 1 Aberdeen company is

:54:13.:54:16.

taking business from the North Sea to the deep water of Brazil and

:54:16.:54:24.

Angola. There is an absolute buzz here.

:54:24.:54:33.

Unemployment is only 1.4 % here. Some of the wages are you are

:54:33.:54:43.
:54:43.:54:44.

throwing at people here in Aberdeen is unbelievable.

:54:44.:54:48.

This part of Scotland is particularly interested and

:54:48.:54:54.

infrastructure spend. The City has long awaited -- long awaited a

:54:54.:55:00.

railroad and better links with Inverness and Dundee. With work

:55:00.:55:05.

already underway on the new Forth crossing this week MSPs will hear

:55:05.:55:11.

ministers updated plans. 50 new projects such as roads, bridges

:55:11.:55:21.
:55:21.:55:24.

ports, housing, and schools. We are looking to dual the it a 96.

:55:24.:55:31.

-- de A96. We're also looking at upgrades to the railway network.

:55:31.:55:35.

Between Aberdeen and Inverness, Inverness and the central belt, and

:55:35.:55:40.

even further down the country. We are actively looking at improving

:55:40.:55:47.

the rail network and the service to Stranraer.

:55:47.:55:50.

Another eagerly awaited announcement regards for enterprise

:55:50.:55:55.

zones. Sectors where tax breaks and special helps with skills will be

:55:55.:56:01.

targeted. In the past, Enterprise has focused on areas in the

:56:01.:56:06.

greatest need of help, with the highest deprivation. Now it is

:56:06.:56:09.

expected the government will focus on areas with the highest potential

:56:09.:56:14.

for growth. That leads to the question as to whether Aberdeen and

:56:14.:56:18.

the north-east will benefit to the expense of others facing the

:56:18.:56:23.

toughest of times. There I am now joined by one of the

:56:23.:56:29.

authors of the ITEM Club report, the deputy convener of the Holyrood

:56:29.:56:34.

a comic can meet -- committee, under Labour spokesperson for

:56:34.:56:42.

infrastructure. -- the Holyrood economic committee. What is your

:56:42.:56:51.

assessment of the most worrying.? The Euro zone crisis. That can

:56:51.:56:55.

derail all the forecasts. If you listen to the Chancellor and the

:56:55.:57:00.

Bank of England you can hear them say they have made forecasts on the

:57:00.:57:06.

basis of the Euro zone hanging together. As have a week. Let's say

:57:06.:57:12.

it does. There will be at least another two years of slow, grinding

:57:12.:57:16.

growth. That does damage to the productive abilities of the economy

:57:16.:57:21.

over that period. It means we are losing economic activity that we

:57:21.:57:25.

will never forget back. In that more than normal recession she

:57:25.:57:31.

might lose economic activity but you bounce-back and catch up. In

:57:31.:57:36.

this episode we look like we are going to be permanently poorer in

:57:36.:57:41.

the long term. That has all sorts of implications in terms of public

:57:41.:57:47.

expenditure, household prospects, how young people feel about their

:57:47.:57:54.

life prospects, their ability to get jobs, so on, and so forth.

:57:54.:57:58.

What can the domestic government do? Given the scenario you have

:57:58.:58:03.

outlined, if the Euro zone imploded - and it looks like our fortunes

:58:03.:58:10.

are tied to the Bundesbank - what can be done?

:58:10.:58:16.

The Bank of England captain to react to a Euro zone blow up but we

:58:16.:58:23.

live in an interconnected world. -- can attempt to react. Growth in the

:58:23.:58:30.

emerging world is putting a high floor under the oil price. That is

:58:30.:58:35.

good news for Aberdeen but hark -- tough news for the rest of us

:58:35.:58:41.

because it acts as a tax on us in the developed world. But how useful

:58:41.:58:45.

will investment in infrastructure be? You're basically shuffling

:58:45.:58:50.

money around the pot. You can argue that the infrastructure investment

:58:50.:58:55.

helps if it helps us over a long period of time to go our economy

:58:55.:59:00.

and make it more efficient. But it is not a solution which will

:59:00.:59:06.

suddenly left us to high growth rates in the short term. It is

:59:06.:59:11.

about the long-term potential and how much our economy grows.

:59:11.:59:17.

We seem to be getting conflicting signals about the economy. Export,

:59:17.:59:22.

whisky, salmon, manufacturing - these have been phenomenally well.

:59:23.:59:27.

Whisky has recently had a �3 billion. So given our exports are

:59:28.:59:33.

doing well, is the picture really so grim and Scotland?

:59:33.:59:39.

We do have great exporters here but when you think about it UK exports

:59:39.:59:45.

are up about 17% yet according to the official data series Scottish

:59:45.:59:50.

exports are led up 7%. So whilst we have some great exporters and real

:59:50.:59:54.

export champions I do not North we have enough companies at the top of

:59:54.:59:59.

the First Division who could easily play in the Premier League. -- I do

:59:59.:00:07.

not know. But presumably they trade

:00:07.:00:14.

delegation to China is well timed? That is fair. We need to find new

:00:14.:00:19.

markets. Your reaction to what the ITEM Club

:00:19.:00:29.
:00:29.:00:30.

It is not unsurprising that they have come up with these figures.

:00:30.:00:33.

The Scottish Government is trying to work around these figures and

:00:33.:00:38.

make sure that we come through this situation stronger and better.

:00:38.:00:43.

Hence the reason why they have put emphasis on capital investment

:00:43.:00:48.

projects to keep the economy moving and jobs. And make sure we ride

:00:48.:00:52.

this situation better than other parts of the UK. You must welcome

:00:52.:01:01.

that, surely, and particularly the Investment in improving roads?

:01:01.:01:08.

of the projects would be welcome, but unfortunately my understanding

:01:08.:01:14.

is simply confirmation of projects which have already been agreed and

:01:14.:01:20.

for which the funding had previously been allocated. I know

:01:20.:01:25.

that the Scottish Government cut capital spending faster than at the

:01:25.:01:30.

UK Government. Although they often say things that we agree with in

:01:30.:01:36.

terms of capital spending, that proof of the pudding is what they

:01:36.:01:41.

actually do it and they do not have a good record. I know Aberdeen well.

:01:41.:01:45.

One of the constraints on the economy there is the lack of public

:01:45.:01:52.

sector investment in housing. We have a booming private sector, but

:01:52.:01:57.

a stagnant public sector which has not investing in social housing.

:01:57.:02:02.

The Scottish Government has announced plans to cut the housing

:02:02.:02:08.

budget in half. Do you no details yet of the consequential loss?

:02:08.:02:12.

don't. That is part of the difficulty as negotiations are

:02:12.:02:18.

still taking place. These are not all the issues of what drive the

:02:18.:02:22.

Scottish Government. They have identified a number of projects we

:02:22.:02:27.

want to see being delivered. Some of them might have been pre-

:02:27.:02:32.

announced, but it is pulling those resources together to make sure we

:02:32.:02:36.

deliver on those projects to secure the economy. It is about giving the

:02:36.:02:41.

economy confidence in Scotland to allow other sectors to feel the

:02:41.:02:45.

buoyancy that exists in Scotland. To allow that opportunity to take

:02:46.:02:50.

place. If we stop that type of investment, we are sending out that

:02:50.:02:56.

wrong types of message to others in the sector. In terms of confidence,

:02:56.:03:01.

we were expecting to know where the enterprise zones would be and what

:03:01.:03:07.

they are by the end of this month. Do we have that? I am not privy to

:03:07.:03:10.

ministerial discussions, but clearly There are a number of

:03:10.:03:15.

factors in play. We want to make sure we don't fall into that same

:03:15.:03:23.

traps as the 1980s and make sure we're developing the UMPIRE: -- we

:03:23.:03:32.

are developing the areas that are appropriate. And ones which can

:03:32.:03:36.

deliver the best benefit for the investment that he explains. What

:03:36.:03:44.

do you make of that? It fit it is not the most deprived areas that

:03:44.:03:51.

they would often go to? We have a worry about enterprise zones in

:03:51.:03:56.

general. They did not work in the previous model. It created short-

:03:56.:04:01.

term employment in that specific location. Looking over a ten-year

:04:01.:04:06.

period, it was clear that those jobs had simply been displaced from

:04:06.:04:09.

one community to another. Many communities would love something

:04:09.:04:15.

new to be done, especially where regeneration funding has been cut

:04:15.:04:19.

back. For them, that might be a great opportunity. But the evidence

:04:19.:04:23.

is that what they do is very short term and very local and doesn't

:04:23.:04:28.

actually create employment itself. Well-targeted public investment can

:04:28.:04:34.

create employment, especially when combined with private funding. But

:04:34.:04:41.

nothing we have heard yet from the Government at Westminster or

:04:41.:04:44.

Holyrood gives me confidence that they will be a any better than 30

:04:44.:04:51.

years ago. That is part of the discussions which are run going.

:04:51.:05:00.

The private sector, local authorities, COSLA, Scottish

:05:00.:05:04.

Enterprise are looking at the resources available and how to use

:05:04.:05:12.

them to best ad vantage. -- best advantage. That will hopefully

:05:12.:05:22.
:05:22.:05:23.

spread to the rest of the economy and will create jobs. We should

:05:23.:05:29.

know in the early spring? Hopefully early next year. What about that,

:05:29.:05:35.

and that work forces should be far more flexible? He has a point. He

:05:35.:05:38.

has always been the drum to encourage people to realise how

:05:38.:05:45.

much employment there is in the oil industry. I have mentioned already

:05:45.:05:49.

the lack of investment in rented housing. We think that is really

:05:49.:05:56.

important. There is an issue around training and skills. Access to

:05:56.:06:01.

trained technicians is difficult as well as graduate engineers. We have

:06:01.:06:08.

a real concern about this year's Scottish Budget and cutting

:06:08.:06:15.

education. We think that will only damage six Cecil industries --

:06:15.:06:22.

successful industries in Scotland. Thank you. We can now see pictures

:06:22.:06:26.

of Tian Tian and Yang Guang arriving in Edinburgh. You can hear

:06:26.:06:34.

the bagpipes. The headline writers were beside themselves with

:06:34.:06:44.
:06:44.:06:56.

happiness this morning. -- P-Day landings etc... I am listening this

:06:56.:07:01.

is the first time that the animals will have heard bagpipes. We all

:07:01.:07:08.

return to that when we see them being unloaded.

:07:08.:07:15.

Now let's cross to Glenn Campbell in Beijing, where we are following

:07:15.:07:18.

the First Minister's trade mission. What does he want to get out of

:07:18.:07:25.

this trip? I suppose it seems quite strange that as the pandas have

:07:25.:07:29.

flown West to Scotland that the First Minister has flown east. He

:07:29.:07:35.

was joking that it was a two-for- one deal. Whilst we get to keep the

:07:35.:07:39.

pandas and hopefully they will entertain us for 10 years, he has

:07:39.:07:44.

only 10 days here in China. It is his third visit, but he is seeking

:07:44.:07:50.

to impress the authorities and impress business year to try to

:07:50.:07:55.

build-up Scotland's trade and cultural links with China. This is

:07:55.:07:59.

already the world's second largest economy and it is still growing. It

:07:59.:08:07.

has slowed slightly lately. The First Minister sees an opportunity

:08:07.:08:11.

for a Scottish business to do deals here. And perhaps for China to

:08:11.:08:17.

invest in Scotland. We have been hearing in the studio that it is

:08:17.:08:21.

very a urgent politically that Scotland develops new markets like

:08:21.:08:26.

China. Do you think there is fire under the feet of this business and

:08:26.:08:31.

they have to come home with something sustainable? Well, I

:08:31.:08:35.

think the imperative is certainly there when you consider the current

:08:35.:08:43.

economic situation. We're looking at a return to recession in the UK,

:08:43.:08:51.

and if not that then a prolonged period of a very low growth. We

:08:51.:08:56.

can't seek to Europe because The Apprentice -- pretty much in the

:08:56.:09:06.
:09:06.:09:11.

same boat. Even though things have slowed a little in China, they

:09:11.:09:17.

still have trillions of dollars available to invest in Scottish

:09:17.:09:21.

Asset Management and spend in the development of renewable energy

:09:21.:09:25.

technology in Scotland. These are the sorts of deals the First

:09:25.:09:30.

Minister would like to see done. Briefly, we have heard how

:09:30.:09:37.

important it is to have personal contact in China. This is the First

:09:37.:09:42.

Minister's third visit there. What is the personal interaction for him,

:09:42.:09:49.

do you think? Will, I think it is certainly important. -- well. One

:09:49.:09:54.

thing I have learned here is that in order to do good business there

:09:54.:09:58.

must be good relations and a mutual understanding of history and

:09:59.:10:04.

culture. That is why when the premier came to the UK, he started

:10:04.:10:09.

his visit at the birthplace of Shakespeare. The First Minister has

:10:09.:10:14.

been visiting the ancient tombs where emperors are visited.

:10:14.:10:19.

Tomorrow, he will sign at cultural agreement with the Chinese

:10:19.:10:22.

government. That is thought that will underpin a prosperous

:10:22.:10:28.

relationship between our two countries. Thank you.

:10:28.:10:31.

Giving people a greater say in the way their communities are run could

:10:31.:10:34.

be the route to improving the nation's health. That is the idea

:10:34.:10:37.

behind the assets approach. Championed by Scotland's Chief

:10:37.:10:39.

Medical officer Harry Burns, it makes a link between how much

:10:39.:10:43.

control people feel they have over their own lives and ill health. It

:10:43.:10:46.

is being piloted on two estates, one in Clackmannanshire, the other

:10:46.:10:49.

in Kilmarnock in East Ayrshire, where we sent our reporter to take

:10:49.:10:59.
:10:59.:11:04.

a look at how it works. These nine-year-old girls are

:11:04.:11:11.

planning a menu for a Christmas party. This centre is based in

:11:11.:11:15.

Kilmarnock, the setting for the controversial documentary series,

:11:15.:11:23.

this scheme. The area has high levels of ill-health and

:11:23.:11:31.

unemployment. The volunteers that the project want to give children a

:11:31.:11:34.

greater say in the way that things are run to help turn around their

:11:34.:11:42.

future. People say that the return of problems is not having control

:11:42.:11:46.

over their own lives. We want these children to have control over what

:11:46.:11:51.

they want to do with their lives. We're helping them achieve things

:11:51.:11:54.

in their education that the maybe did not think the car could achieve.

:11:54.:12:01.

It is proving popular with the children's. I like playing, like,

:12:01.:12:11.
:12:11.:12:15.

well on the computer. I got help to pass my test for. Solutions at this

:12:15.:12:22.

project come from within the community, not imposed from outside.

:12:22.:12:28.

These skills are already in the community. It is not about money.

:12:28.:12:32.

We are the assets of the community working with young people who are

:12:32.:12:42.
:12:42.:12:45.

the assets of the future. That is the message this police sergeant is

:12:45.:12:53.

trying to get across. He is working with the council and other agencies

:12:53.:12:57.

to listen to the community to find out how they can help them to help

:12:57.:13:02.

themselves. It is not easy. A lot of community members are very keen.

:13:02.:13:07.

Momentum is picking up. The more that people learned about it, the

:13:07.:13:14.

more they are prepared to come on board. This estate in Cornwall is

:13:14.:13:20.

the inspiration behind the project. In the early 1990s, it was very

:13:20.:13:28.

deprived. By the year 2,000, crime had fallen by half and child

:13:28.:13:33.

protection cases dropped by 40%. Unemployment was down by 70% for.

:13:33.:13:39.

It felt like a bottomless pit of need on this one is state. Everyone

:13:40.:13:48.

else was looking the other way. The difference for us, I think was that

:13:48.:13:52.

we felt differently and we saw the community and the residents as the

:13:52.:13:57.

solution to the problems we were having, and not the problem.

:13:57.:14:02.

was invited to spread the word about her work at a conference in

:14:02.:14:11.

Stirling. People who lack a sense of control over their lives are

:14:11.:14:21.
:14:21.:14:27.

less likely... This approach attempts to activate and energise

:14:27.:14:33.

and develop within individuals a sense of being able to be in

:14:33.:14:39.

control, a sense of moving forward into the future, a sense of wanting

:14:39.:14:43.

to do the right thing for their health. For example, less likely to

:14:43.:14:49.

smoke and more likely to exercise. It is not just about that. It is

:14:49.:14:52.

about being in control over the more complex social interactions as

:14:52.:14:59.

well. At the north-west youth projects, they are confident that

:14:59.:15:05.

they are run the Reich tracks. will be issued for the community. -

:15:05.:15:12.

- that they are all on at the right track. It only takes a few people

:15:12.:15:20.

to put the wheels in motion. Five residents initially put the wheels

:15:20.:15:30.

in motion. That grew to 25. Then 100. Then eventually the whole

:15:30.:15:33.

community of 6,000. It is unbelievable that change. It is a

:15:33.:15:38.

joy to be there now. People working in these Scottish communities hope

:15:38.:15:48.

the same will be said about their progress as in the improvement in

:15:48.:15:58.
:15:58.:16:02.

What sort of work are you involved I am with the violence reduction

:16:02.:16:06.

Unit. The assets approach involves ordinary people doing extraordinary

:16:06.:16:13.

things. Each of us has an asset of some kind, be it a basic skill or

:16:13.:16:18.

teaching a subject in school. We're attempting to roll these assets out

:16:18.:16:24.

into the wider community. If we go back to the fundamental

:16:24.:16:28.

premise, what is the link between feeling you have no control over

:16:28.:16:34.

your life and mental and physical well-being?

:16:34.:16:39.

Future. That has been shown in lot of different studies in the various

:16:39.:16:44.

different aspects. -- it is huge. The Whitehall study was completely

:16:44.:16:51.

unexpected. It looked at the health of local managers and it was

:16:51.:16:55.

discovered that the high up you where the less stress you had and

:16:55.:17:00.

the better your health. It was the junior workers in organisations

:17:00.:17:05.

that had the worst health. It became clear that it was about

:17:05.:17:10.

control. Having control over your life, been able to make decisions

:17:10.:17:15.

for yourself, been able to say yes or no, it is hugely significant for

:17:16.:17:19.

health and it is not taken on board adequately by people who provide

:17:19.:17:25.

services. In Glasgow, for example, services provide for people but in

:17:25.:17:29.

a way that undermines them and does not give them control. So we should

:17:29.:17:33.

not expect health benefits even though we are spending money on

:17:33.:17:37.

regeneration. It is interesting that the

:17:38.:17:41.

discourse surrounding health the talks about ground up rather than

:17:41.:17:48.

top down. Is there an awareness that we had not seen before?

:17:48.:17:52.

Absolutely. We have turned the corner. People understand that you

:17:52.:17:57.

can spend lots of money but if you do it in a way whereby you are

:17:57.:18:00.

doing it to people, then they will not be as involved or think they

:18:00.:18:06.

are the ones making a difference. How difference is it to get people

:18:06.:18:10.

involved law? There could be an aspect of low self-confidence. When

:18:10.:18:16.

you try to engage and energise a community how difficult can that be,

:18:16.:18:21.

and can you always reach the kind of people that you want to reach?

:18:21.:18:26.

It is a slow process. We tell people that at the start. We

:18:26.:18:31.

attempt to gain trust and we avoid terms like project and initiative.

:18:31.:18:37.

Because they come and go when funds run out. So we tell them, the only

:18:37.:18:42.

promise we're making is to raise your hopes and aspirations and

:18:42.:18:46.

empowered you to do things for your community.

:18:46.:18:52.

What kind of things? You have to work alongside

:18:52.:18:57.

different services from the public sector. We have had full strategic

:18:57.:19:01.

by and from local councils and the police. They are keen to develop

:19:01.:19:05.

the approach. Through listening events we locate the source of

:19:05.:19:12.

energy, if you like. Each neighbourhood has won. Be that in

:19:12.:19:15.

relation to anti-social behaviour, the housing stock, on employment,

:19:15.:19:22.

every neighbourhood is unique. So people come for an say, these

:19:22.:19:26.

are our priorities, this is what should happen, this is what we need

:19:26.:19:33.

to do to make it happen? Absolutely. Like the youth projects

:19:33.:19:37.

in Kilmarnock. But that is just one aspect of this approach. Another

:19:37.:19:43.

example is an elderly chap who started an archery club. The term

:19:43.:19:48.

is immaterial. The main part of the initiative is bringing together

:19:48.:19:52.

young people with old people. Inter-generational, breaking down

:19:52.:19:57.

barriers. It builds trust and people feel safe in one another's

:19:57.:20:03.

company. Rebuilding community spirit then?

:20:03.:20:09.

That is already there. It is about cohesion.

:20:09.:20:13.

What seems to be a problem with other projects is that people do

:20:13.:20:16.

engage and a keen on interaction but then the money goes and there

:20:16.:20:23.

is no ongoing support. This surely must be an ongoing problem?

:20:23.:20:29.

Yes. And what is different here is that if it is a shaft in the way

:20:29.:20:33.

agencies were, if they see themselves as a catalyst and

:20:33.:20:37.

enabler in supporting local people who are primarily in the driving

:20:37.:20:42.

seat, then that is different. That is not a project, it is a different

:20:42.:20:46.

style of working. If we can get that we have achieved something

:20:46.:20:50.

genuinely different to what has gone before.

:20:50.:20:53.

But can we always be confident of reaching the people will benefit

:20:53.:21:00.

most? Are a lot of this is about seeing

:21:00.:21:05.

people in a different way. Much more active in their lives. The

:21:05.:21:08.

benefits for young people looking at those in their community and

:21:08.:21:12.

seen them in charge of their lives, is huge.

:21:12.:21:20.

Is it that you're experience? My colleagues working in this area

:21:20.:21:24.

completely encourage this approach. We have discovered tremendous asset

:21:24.:21:28.

to are already reaching the people you are talking about. They attend

:21:28.:21:34.

a hour or monthly events. Each event is themed. Health, employment,

:21:34.:21:39.

whatever it might be. These people meet the service providers face to

:21:39.:21:44.

face and shape the services of the future.

:21:44.:21:48.

Thank you very much. The Conservative back benches now,

:21:48.:21:53.

where Annabel Goldie is focusing her political energies after

:21:53.:21:58.

leadership on keeping Scotland in the Union. But life remains a

:21:58.:22:06.

challenge. I asked her to reflect on her time at the helm.

:22:06.:22:10.

Just about every day brought something you could not foresee.

:22:10.:22:15.

That is the nature of politics. It is one of the most unpredictable

:22:15.:22:22.

fields of activity you can imagine. That is what is exhilarating about

:22:22.:22:29.

it. You never do quite know from one day to the next what will

:22:29.:22:35.

happen. I always remember, I do not know it was my first speech to the

:22:35.:22:39.

conference after becoming leader, but I was very nervous and remember

:22:39.:22:44.

saying to everybody, is this in place? Is that in place? I drove

:22:44.:22:50.

them round the bend, to be honest. Somebody eventually said, can down,

:22:50.:22:54.

all you need to do is walk onto the stage, greet the audience and walk

:22:54.:23:00.

to the microphone. For all the life of me I could not see any speech,

:23:00.:23:06.

any piece of this lectern where you could conceal a speech, and then I

:23:06.:23:12.

realised there was no speech at all! So why at two walk-on and

:23:12.:23:18.

endeavour to cover up by eight saying openly, my appeals will be

:23:18.:23:28.
:23:28.:23:29.

enhanced if I know where the speech as! Somebody rushed on.

:23:29.:23:34.

You have often used humour to defuse a hostile situations, and

:23:34.:23:42.

then often used it as a weapon. There is a place for humour. It can

:23:42.:23:47.

lighten or sharpen a situation. But you must be careful not in

:23:47.:23:53.

deploying a shoe market to diminish or trivialise a situation. --

:23:53.:23:58.

deployed in humour. I would hate to think I have ever done that. But it

:23:58.:24:04.

can sometimes put people at ease or illustrate a point more graphically

:24:04.:24:10.

than some other mode of approach. Sometimes the humour is just the

:24:10.:24:20.

quickest way to uproot a we pen and a bit of pomposity.

:24:20.:24:23.

Who will keep these two under control? Grab them by the short-

:24:23.:24:30.

term car lease? Unfortunately for the First

:24:30.:24:33.

Minister, patting himself on the back does not count as Physical

:24:33.:24:40.

Education! You must respect the courage and

:24:40.:24:46.

integrity of people who do make with you. But they too have a

:24:46.:24:51.

obligation. -- people who it debate with you. You must not diminish

:24:51.:24:56.

their debate with mindless attacks on opponents. That is denigrated

:24:56.:25:01.

and self diminishing. I am not saying I have not stepped over the

:25:01.:25:07.

line from time to time. I probably have. But as a rule, always

:25:07.:25:13.

remember the arguments, what you are trying to communicate and why.

:25:13.:25:18.

People would say that this persona has always been effective. Your

:25:18.:25:22.

personal ratings have always been higher there than the party. Is

:25:22.:25:27.

this something you have contrived to do because everybody needs a

:25:27.:25:31.

shield in public life? What do you think that one of your strengths is

:25:31.:25:39.

that you are 100% authentic? You have to be yourself. People can

:25:39.:25:44.

agree or disagree but at least they know where you're coming from and

:25:44.:25:49.

why. It would be good for politics if we could encourage more people

:25:49.:25:54.

to be less obedient to the preconceived shape of what it is to

:25:54.:26:00.

be a member of their party, and may be just a little more prepared from

:26:00.:26:04.

time to time to beat themselves. Because you can do that without

:26:04.:26:09.

being disloyal or causing difficulty to your party. I think

:26:09.:26:16.

it might be a breath of fresh air in politics If we just got

:26:16.:26:26.
:26:26.:26:28.

Unleashed from time to time. There is a lot of vibration here!

:26:28.:26:33.

It is liberating. Do not get me wrong, I loved being the leader. It

:26:33.:26:37.

gave me pleasure and I could not have done it if that were not the

:26:37.:26:41.

case. But I am very positive about the life I am rapidly rediscovering.

:26:41.:26:50.

I have always been keen on board watching. In the air where I live

:26:50.:26:55.

in Bishopton, near to the Clyde estuary, it is a marvellous place

:26:55.:27:05.
:27:05.:27:10.

for watching belts. It is relaxing and peaceful. -- bird watching. It

:27:10.:27:16.

is pretty rich in diversity in terms of a wildlife here. The

:27:16.:27:21.

greatest compliment I was paid by the media was being compared with

:27:21.:27:31.
:27:31.:27:33.

more prune. -- Maw Broon. You just have to let hostile comments at

:27:33.:27:42.

roll off you. It is quite a discipline though.

:27:42.:27:47.

I don't know. I am fortunate. I have a great family and friends.

:27:47.:27:55.

Lots of interests. These were the things, for example the charge,

:27:55.:28:02.

very important. -- the Church. I hoped that these things would

:28:02.:28:08.

continue to keep me grounded. I never lost sight of the compass

:28:08.:28:13.

point that I endeavoured to keep fixed upon. It was not about me. I

:28:13.:28:19.

was not all that important in the whole thing. It was about the job I

:28:19.:28:26.

had to do. To look back on today and ahead to

:28:26.:28:30.

next week and joined now by a political correspondent and the

:28:30.:28:34.

environmentally editor of the Sunday Herald. Have you taken time

:28:34.:28:39.

out from visiting the zoo to be here?

:28:39.:28:45.

No. It makes me queasy to be quite honest. Yes, there are important

:28:45.:28:49.

elements, attractive animals, important things to say about our

:28:49.:28:56.

relationship with China, but would I go to see them? North. Probably

:28:56.:29:04.

yes if my kids were still young. So, flexible principles!

:29:04.:29:09.

What I will say which is a bit cheeky as, I gather Alex Salmond

:29:09.:29:14.

and Jeremy Clarkson are both in China right now. Wouldn't a swap of

:29:14.:29:22.

be a good long-term arrangement! Speaking about renewables now, some

:29:22.:29:26.

very interesting relationships have been set up about research and

:29:26.:29:31.

exchange of renewables. Where is that going?

:29:31.:29:35.

One of the problems with China is that it will build more coal-fired

:29:35.:29:39.

power stations than anyone else and contribute a massive amount of

:29:39.:29:43.

pollution which will wreck the climate in the future. So anything

:29:43.:29:47.

we can do to persuade them to go more renewable is bound to be a

:29:47.:29:53.

good thing. How persuasive our hour powers

:29:53.:29:57.

these day if we are actually over there with the begging bowl, to be

:29:57.:30:03.

blunt? On one level we have no choice but

:30:03.:30:09.

to engage. The politics is very interesting. The constitutional

:30:10.:30:16.

question is all wrapped up in this. These pandas have been gifted to do

:30:16.:30:21.

it United Kingdom, say ministers, not Scotland. Alex Salmond and the

:30:21.:30:25.

other hand emphasises that this it builds on the friendship and links

:30:25.:30:31.

between Scotland and China. We were talking earlier about the

:30:31.:30:36.

human rights question. Is this the correct climate to raise that, or

:30:36.:30:46.
:30:46.:30:46.

inevitably, will this be watered I think you would be wrong if Alex

:30:46.:30:51.

Salmond comes back from China without their least raising the

:30:51.:30:55.

issue of human rights because it is fundamental. There are many things

:30:55.:31:01.

wrong with human rights in China. But one suspects he might do it on

:31:01.:31:06.

a quiet because there are so many commercial opportunities. That is a

:31:06.:31:12.

little uncomfortable for me. In the look at the new figures about the

:31:12.:31:16.

economy and is critical meeting in terms of what happens in the

:31:16.:31:22.

eurozone, we had a poor economic forecast and that was the best case

:31:22.:31:26.

scenario. Do you think the penny has dropped with us all about what

:31:26.:31:32.

could be coming down the road here? I don't think it has. I think there

:31:32.:31:35.

is a slight Disconnect in Scotland where it seems to be regarded as

:31:35.:31:45.
:31:45.:31:47.

somebody else's problem. The SNP and Alex Salmond, who has a

:31:47.:31:52.

background as an economist, are almost silent on this issue. That

:31:52.:31:57.

said, all of the parties in Scotland are guilty to a similar

:31:57.:32:01.

extent. The Scottish constitutional bobbled which thinks only about

:32:01.:32:04.

internal matters of the constitution and not about arguably

:32:04.:32:09.

much more important things going on in Europe. It is difficult to see

:32:09.:32:16.

this going well. The direction of travel seems clear, closer fiscal

:32:16.:32:25.

unity. But this could drag on for years and this is not what the

:32:25.:32:31.

markets one. Do you think domestic politicians -- how much power do

:32:31.:32:36.

domestic politicians have if that is the scenario we're moving

:32:36.:32:41.

towards a? Less than they probably think they have. I am not an expert

:32:41.:32:49.

on the eurozone. I like using Euros, but I worry about whether reckon

:32:49.:32:59.
:32:59.:33:01.

use them next year. Alex Salmond in China, will he make an influence?

:33:01.:33:04.

Political magazine presented by Jon Sopel and Isabel Fraser.


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