04/12/2011 The Politics Show Scotland


Political magazine presented by Jon Sopel and Isabel Fraser.

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We may have less than a week to save the euro. Nicolas Sarkozy is


trying to prevent a collapse with Angela Merkel. They're talking


about individual members having less control over tax and spend.


The Energy Secretary wants tens of thousands more turbines to run


every car in the land. On the Politics Show Scotland: We


will bring you the first pictures of those pandas arriving in


Edinburgh as we look at the bigger picture of Sino-Scottish relations.


What could and should they be? Conflicting signals on the economic


front. New independent analysis predicts Scotland faces a lost


decade of growth. But our key exports are booming as the


government announces a �60 billion infrastructure plan. And life after


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1763 seconds


I hope we will see a commanding package from European leaders. We


have to give support to the ECB which so far has been denied by the


leaders of Europe. There is a fundamental problem that Nicolas


Sarkozy and Angela Merkel don't see it in the same way. I think there


will probably be a joint paper produced by the friend and the


Germans. That will probably look at how do you make sure there is


better supervision of the economies within the eurozone. That carries


with it quite significant implications in terms of the


broader functioning of the EU. Would you support a referendum


about a treaty change? The lot is that there should be a referendum


if there is a significant change of powers, but let's see what happened


next week. I can see how fiscal union could solve the problems


going forwards. But we have a continent completely crippled by


debt. Countries on the periphery like Greece are not competitive.


Does the eurozone have to stay as constituted? It is for the eurozone


to make those judgements. There was speculation that Greece might leave


in the past. We should be clean and categoric. It is in Britain's


interest that the eurozone resolves its problems. Schadenfreude is not


a good economic strategy for Britain at the moment. What is a


good strategy for Labour in this position? It has been been -- it


has been broadly pro-Europe. You are suggesting a more scepticism?


Towards the single currency, as was the case in the past. Economics


should lead the policy. Resuming Tain a position that economics lead


to politics. Rob Lee, we need a clear headed sense of where our


national interest if -- national interest is. We have just had a


conversation about climate change. The way we can advance global


public goods. Our interests are amplified by being part of the EU.


We also are part of a global market. Deval -- David Cameron has to


secure the interests of 500 million people. Are you sure you can get


away with being in the single market if you're not in the fiscal


We have heard about the warning of people caught kissing against


Ache you could have an emergency brake. There are various ways you


can work to protect Britain's national interests. That requires a


prime minister that knows what his priorities are. My genuine fear is


that if you maintain the position you were overriding national


interest is the repatriation of powers, not only will you likely be


unsuccessful, but you will not get the guarantees that the British


economy so desperately needs. Later, the political impact of


Good afternoon and welcome to the Politics Show Scotland. As panda


politics puts on a kilt, we will bring you live pictures of Yang


Guang and Tian Tian as they are flown into Edinburgh. They are the


latest recruits to the diplomatic circuit, a tradition launched in


1972, with Pat Nixon, America's First lady, welcoming Ling Ling and


Sing Sing to Washington. I think pandemonium will break out.


But on the other bear market, it is far from black and white. A new


forecast of a lost decade of growth is running alongside booming


Scottish exports. We will also investigate a powerful


new prescription for tackling illness, empowering people in


deprived communities, to have more say how they are run.


What we know is that people who lack a sense of control over their


lives are less likely... And as Annabelle Goldie focuses on


keeping Scotland in the UK, we get her reflections from the back


benches on life after leadership. But first, here's the lunchtime


news. Two giant pandas from China are due


to arrive in Scotland in a little over half an hour's time. Tian Tian


and Yang Guang - known as Sweetie and Sunshine - will spend the next


decade on loan at Edinburgh Zoo. It is thought they could attract up to


a million visitors a year. The zoo's chief executive says it is a


big moment for everyone. It is tremendous. After all of


these years of planning, today is the day that these two Panda Bears


are arriving. The A96 between Aberdeen and


Inverness is to be turned into a dual carriageway the Scottish


Government has exclusively revealed to BBC Scotland. Work on the �3


billion project is expected to begin in 2016. The announcement


comes ahead of the publication of the government's capital spending


plan this week. Ministers say they will invest billions of pounds in


over 80 schemes. We are saying that by 2030 at the


latest, we want every city in Scotland linked up by either dual-


carriageway or motorway. We're not just intending to do all the A9,


also the A96 between Aberdeen and Inverness.


Sleet and snow have been falling in parts of west, northern and central


Scotland, causing disruption on the roads. Police had to clear a jack-


knifed lorry off the M8 near Livingston. A woman was taken to


hospital in Perth with minor injuries after a her car crashed in


icy conditions near Dunkeld. In all, Tayside Police report seven


accidents due to the wintry weather conditions. On a lighter note, this


was the scene in Edinburgh Zoo where the penguins certainly felt a


where the penguins certainly felt a little more at home in not quite


Antarctic conditions. Plenty of showers to come across so


when -- Weston, central and northern parts. -- West Ern. There


is an amber warning for snow over they had -- the higher ground of


many parts of the country. Some brightness in between showers. It


brightness in between showers. It will stay cold. Breezy as well.


That's all for now. I'm back at 6:15pm this evening with another


update. I will now hand you back to Isabel for the rest of the Politics


Show. The story of the day is focused on


Edinburgh Zoo. Our reporter is on the tarmac at Edinburgh Airport.


This deal has been a long time in the making. What you think is its


significant? Yes, it has. Five years of


negotiations. It has diplomatic significance, trade significance.


It is interesting that the First Minister is in China at the moment.


I am sure he will be working to help build trade ties. It is a


commercial arrangement and there is Conservation involved. Although the


Chinese have done a great deal of work on their own, they do like to


involve the world community and make sure that people know about


conserving these animals. We have expertise here in Edinburgh with a


prominent vet School and expert geneticists. There is a feeling


that this can help feed into preserving the species for future


generations. Panda bears are very famous and there are 300 in reserve


in says Shaw and problems. There are only 1,500 in the wild -- in


one province. What actually happens at the


airport? What will we see? Well, I think it will be very


exciting. Many people watching what is going on. The runway is being


clear of sleet and snow. The animals will arrive to my left and


come along the runway behind me. They will finish up 100 feet away


from our camera. We will see them through their perspex Keech as they


come -- through their Perspex containers and they will be


transported in special trucks do Edinburgh Zoo.


These very important animals will get a police escort to Edinburgh


Zoo. The motorcade will come along the road and stopped outside the


zoo. In the distance, you can hear bagpipes. They will play for the


animals as they are led into their enclosures. 100 school children are


expected to welcome the animals. There is a lot of hope riding on


the shoulders of these giant pandas for these two. They are spending


�70,000 just to import bamboo for them. Within the first year, they


expect visitor numbers to sewer by about 70%. This zoo is a charity


and they do expect to spend a lot of that money on conservation and


research. They have their fingers crossed that this pair of adults


will produce a pair of cubs. We will return to that story when


it they arrived. We're joined by Patrick Harvie to


discuss wider trade links with China. In in bra, we have the


Mandarin speaking Chief Executive of Scottish Financial Enterprise.


The First Minister is making his third visit to China on this trade


mission. Before we talk about a wider politics, how important is it


that he makes this personal contact? Very important because the


Chinese appreciate the continuous effort made by Scottish politicians


to keep a very consistent relation ship -- relationship with the


Chinese government and people. There has been over 10 years of


work and effort by Scottish politicians to promote that link.


The Chinese appreciate and recognise these efforts and


commitment. The animal, the panda, is a token of friendship. So this


matters in Chinese culture, interaction? It does, in terms of


promoting the links between these countries there must be political


engagement followed by personal and cultural links. This is a package


of relationships and it is the way that China deals with other


countries are. Several Scottish exports are doing very well in


China, but they are looking at engineering, education, tourism and


renewables. Given the dire financial straits everyone is in,


it is sensible to be trying to promote new relationships with


China to develop sustainable growth with them? Stronger relationships


with any country is important. Around the world, people are


looking at the increasing importance of China. Even before


Scotland becomes an independent country, if that is to happen, it


is crucial that we try to develop links with other countries. The


aspect that is missing so far is what kind of relationships would


Scotland have with other countries if we were independent? I think the


Scottish Government has the opportunity to start to articulate


that. Would be be the kind of country that its human-rights


issues front and sector -- front and central? Would we engage with


undemocratic and repressive countries in a different way from


democratic ones? That does not mean that you do not try to find


economic benefits, but I think you have to engage differently and find


ways to facilitate not just economic links but things like


human rights activism, environmental protection. That


seems to be missing so far. I hope that in can develop. You were the


private secretary to Jack McConnell when he visited China and raised


human rights issues. How difficult It is a well established dialogue.


I was involved in some of the discussions between the UK


Government and the Chinese government. There is something a


little formulaic, both understand each other's position. But we


should not overlook the context of human rights in China. When you


discuss these things with the Chinese ministers they will always


talk about the value they place on basic human rights, freedom from


starvation and so on, and these are not trivial issues there. The


progress made in the last 20 years there is considerable.


Do you think China can be completely immune to what is going


on economically in the rest of the world or are we already seen with


the fall in growth that there will be some impact from the Euro zone.


Yes. Just this week we received delegations from China and that is


well understood among stay of policy makers that any idea we had


a couple of the years ago what that the economy could be decouple from


the rest of the world, it simply is not the case. There is concern


about how demand -- a reduction in demand in the West will have an


impact on Chinese economic growth. That is a very big issue in China


where economic growth is essential to the Communist Party's plans for


continuing to open up. Looking at what Scotland has which


China may want, where are the most optimistic areas for relationships


and sustainable growth? Both have identified key areas for


promoting links. Renewables has been a key area. Educational


exchanges. Introducing the Mandarin language to Scotland. That is


another key area are we are focusing on. Tourism, food and


drinks, there has been a good range of sectors which Scotland can


promote to China and also of the Chinese business and investors have


been looking at opportunities to invest in Scotland also. It works


both ways. When we talk about learning


Mandarin, is there a sense that on the languages front, or even the


renewables front, that this is being taken seriously?


Opportunities are being seen. Whether the Government is doing


everything it can to explore them remains to be seen. But there are


consequences to these issues. There is a huge opportunity to look at


renewables. But we should be looking at how China is developing


renewables. If they are increasing Hydro, for example, does that


include a larger scale clearances of people from land to build dams?


If we're talking about exporting salmon from Scotland to China, what


is the environmental impact here? They are a range of good and bad


practices here in Scotland when it comes to Salmond fishing. We need


to think about the environmental consequences for native and wild


salmon stocks as well as the local environ mental consequences. I


would like to see these opportunities explore but for the


Scottish Government to be proactive in terms of a human rights analysis


of doing deals. An environmentally analysis of doing deals also. Then


let's judge what the correct opportunities are to exploit, based


not only on economics but in by the mental and social factors also.


Realistically, do you think that politicians will have this at the


forefront of their mind? I know this will sound distasteful to


Pratt trick, but that there has to be a political realism?


Realistically what is the best that Scotland can hope for from China?


A couple of points. Firstly, putting to one side any party


politics about the constitutional future of the country, it as the


case that the relationship with the UK and China is strong and


influential and in the short term we should take full advantage of


that. On the wider question raised by Patrick, from my own perspective,


these are very important issues, there are some very egregious


individual cases but we should not allow that to determine the


totality of the relationship. There is so much opportunity here. I


would argue that so far we have not got to grips with the scale of the


opportunity and the amount of work we must per tonne to take advantage.


So what are the opportunities? And what are only needing to do that


we're not doing at this stage? If financial services, renewables,


it is interesting that the Chinese are adopting Borth so we must move


quickly and cannot assume that this is a static situation where our


technology is ahead of theirs. What really strikes me is that doing


business in China is multi- dimensional. You need the support


of government, the embassy, and real excellent products to sell. So


in many ways we are looking at a big step change in the over all


recognition of the scale of the task.


Thank you all very much indeed. The past week has seen economic


forecast sharply reduced with a big impact on government borrowing and


alarming warnings about the impact of the Euro zone collapse. Can it


be that bad? Some parts of the economy have done better than


others. Other Deane, for instance. That were reset bent -- cent hour


business editor. Our love Beth challenge is greater


than we thought because the boom was a beggar and the bust was hard.


-- hour debt. The chief economic adviser to the


Scottish Government says that given the nature of the downturn and


unknown risks in Europe of volatility is likely to be even


more pronounced. That is underlined by be ITEM Club group of economists


who monitor the economy and will tomorrow state that we are facing


eye-watering losses. There are forecast is sharply down. But in


some parts of the economy things do not look so bad. Whisky exports are


up 23%. The premium end of the business is


doing well and growth is coming from emerging-markets.


The downturn does not seem so bad in Aberdeen where governments --


businesses were to the fluctuations of the global oil market. The price


of benchmark Brent crude pumped just off the sea bed here has


remained relatively stable and high. Bad news for those of us filling up


the tanks in our cars but a high Loyer -- a high oil price keeps the


economy here motoring. There is talk of an industry at the


end of its natural life cycle but in terms of oil and gas we're


talking another 40 to 50 years of productivity. And then top of that


the potential to diversify into renewables where a lot of companies


seek good investments. The oil and gas industry is seen as leading the


UK out of recession. That can only be good news for the north-east of


Scotland. You can see and feel hear how the


economy is thriving. Farms are not just exporting but moving into


renewable energy. Or one Aberdeen a farm -- 1 Aberdeen company is


taking business from the North Sea to the deep water of Brazil and


Angola. There is an absolute buzz here.


Unemployment is only 1.4 % here. Some of the wages are you are


throwing at people here in Aberdeen is unbelievable.


This part of Scotland is particularly interested and


infrastructure spend. The City has long awaited -- long awaited a


railroad and better links with Inverness and Dundee. With work


already underway on the new Forth crossing this week MSPs will hear


ministers updated plans. 50 new projects such as roads, bridges


ports, housing, and schools. We are looking to dual the it a 96.


-- de A96. We're also looking at upgrades to the railway network.


Between Aberdeen and Inverness, Inverness and the central belt, and


even further down the country. We are actively looking at improving


the rail network and the service to Stranraer.


Another eagerly awaited announcement regards for enterprise


zones. Sectors where tax breaks and special helps with skills will be


targeted. In the past, Enterprise has focused on areas in the


greatest need of help, with the highest deprivation. Now it is


expected the government will focus on areas with the highest potential


for growth. That leads to the question as to whether Aberdeen and


the north-east will benefit to the expense of others facing the


toughest of times. There I am now joined by one of the


authors of the ITEM Club report, the deputy convener of the Holyrood


a comic can meet -- committee, under Labour spokesperson for


infrastructure. -- the Holyrood economic committee. What is your


assessment of the most worrying.? The Euro zone crisis. That can


derail all the forecasts. If you listen to the Chancellor and the


Bank of England you can hear them say they have made forecasts on the


basis of the Euro zone hanging together. As have a week. Let's say


it does. There will be at least another two years of slow, grinding


growth. That does damage to the productive abilities of the economy


over that period. It means we are losing economic activity that we


will never forget back. In that more than normal recession she


might lose economic activity but you bounce-back and catch up. In


this episode we look like we are going to be permanently poorer in


the long term. That has all sorts of implications in terms of public


expenditure, household prospects, how young people feel about their


life prospects, their ability to get jobs, so on, and so forth.


What can the domestic government do? Given the scenario you have


outlined, if the Euro zone imploded - and it looks like our fortunes


are tied to the Bundesbank - what can be done?


The Bank of England captain to react to a Euro zone blow up but we


live in an interconnected world. -- can attempt to react. Growth in the


emerging world is putting a high floor under the oil price. That is


good news for Aberdeen but hark -- tough news for the rest of us


because it acts as a tax on us in the developed world. But how useful


will investment in infrastructure be? You're basically shuffling


money around the pot. You can argue that the infrastructure investment


helps if it helps us over a long period of time to go our economy


and make it more efficient. But it is not a solution which will


suddenly left us to high growth rates in the short term. It is


about the long-term potential and how much our economy grows.


We seem to be getting conflicting signals about the economy. Export,


whisky, salmon, manufacturing - these have been phenomenally well.


Whisky has recently had a �3 billion. So given our exports are


doing well, is the picture really so grim and Scotland?


We do have great exporters here but when you think about it UK exports


are up about 17% yet according to the official data series Scottish


exports are led up 7%. So whilst we have some great exporters and real


export champions I do not North we have enough companies at the top of


the First Division who could easily play in the Premier League. -- I do


not know. But presumably they trade


delegation to China is well timed? That is fair. We need to find new


markets. Your reaction to what the ITEM Club


It is not unsurprising that they have come up with these figures.


The Scottish Government is trying to work around these figures and


make sure that we come through this situation stronger and better.


Hence the reason why they have put emphasis on capital investment


projects to keep the economy moving and jobs. And make sure we ride


this situation better than other parts of the UK. You must welcome


that, surely, and particularly the Investment in improving roads?


of the projects would be welcome, but unfortunately my understanding


is simply confirmation of projects which have already been agreed and


for which the funding had previously been allocated. I know


that the Scottish Government cut capital spending faster than at the


UK Government. Although they often say things that we agree with in


terms of capital spending, that proof of the pudding is what they


actually do it and they do not have a good record. I know Aberdeen well.


One of the constraints on the economy there is the lack of public


sector investment in housing. We have a booming private sector, but


a stagnant public sector which has not investing in social housing.


The Scottish Government has announced plans to cut the housing


budget in half. Do you no details yet of the consequential loss?


don't. That is part of the difficulty as negotiations are


still taking place. These are not all the issues of what drive the


Scottish Government. They have identified a number of projects we


want to see being delivered. Some of them might have been pre-


announced, but it is pulling those resources together to make sure we


deliver on those projects to secure the economy. It is about giving the


economy confidence in Scotland to allow other sectors to feel the


buoyancy that exists in Scotland. To allow that opportunity to take


place. If we stop that type of investment, we are sending out that


wrong types of message to others in the sector. In terms of confidence,


we were expecting to know where the enterprise zones would be and what


they are by the end of this month. Do we have that? I am not privy to


ministerial discussions, but clearly There are a number of


factors in play. We want to make sure we don't fall into that same


traps as the 1980s and make sure we're developing the UMPIRE: -- we


are developing the areas that are appropriate. And ones which can


deliver the best benefit for the investment that he explains. What


do you make of that? It fit it is not the most deprived areas that


they would often go to? We have a worry about enterprise zones in


general. They did not work in the previous model. It created short-


term employment in that specific location. Looking over a ten-year


period, it was clear that those jobs had simply been displaced from


one community to another. Many communities would love something


new to be done, especially where regeneration funding has been cut


back. For them, that might be a great opportunity. But the evidence


is that what they do is very short term and very local and doesn't


actually create employment itself. Well-targeted public investment can


create employment, especially when combined with private funding. But


nothing we have heard yet from the Government at Westminster or


Holyrood gives me confidence that they will be a any better than 30


years ago. That is part of the discussions which are run going.


The private sector, local authorities, COSLA, Scottish


Enterprise are looking at the resources available and how to use


them to best ad vantage. -- best advantage. That will hopefully


spread to the rest of the economy and will create jobs. We should


know in the early spring? Hopefully early next year. What about that,


and that work forces should be far more flexible? He has a point. He


has always been the drum to encourage people to realise how


much employment there is in the oil industry. I have mentioned already


the lack of investment in rented housing. We think that is really


important. There is an issue around training and skills. Access to


trained technicians is difficult as well as graduate engineers. We have


a real concern about this year's Scottish Budget and cutting


education. We think that will only damage six Cecil industries --


successful industries in Scotland. Thank you. We can now see pictures


of Tian Tian and Yang Guang arriving in Edinburgh. You can hear


the bagpipes. The headline writers were beside themselves with


happiness this morning. -- P-Day landings etc... I am listening this


is the first time that the animals will have heard bagpipes. We all


return to that when we see them being unloaded.


Now let's cross to Glenn Campbell in Beijing, where we are following


the First Minister's trade mission. What does he want to get out of


this trip? I suppose it seems quite strange that as the pandas have


flown West to Scotland that the First Minister has flown east. He


was joking that it was a two-for- one deal. Whilst we get to keep the


pandas and hopefully they will entertain us for 10 years, he has


only 10 days here in China. It is his third visit, but he is seeking


to impress the authorities and impress business year to try to


build-up Scotland's trade and cultural links with China. This is


already the world's second largest economy and it is still growing. It


has slowed slightly lately. The First Minister sees an opportunity


for a Scottish business to do deals here. And perhaps for China to


invest in Scotland. We have been hearing in the studio that it is


very a urgent politically that Scotland develops new markets like


China. Do you think there is fire under the feet of this business and


they have to come home with something sustainable? Well, I


think the imperative is certainly there when you consider the current


economic situation. We're looking at a return to recession in the UK,


and if not that then a prolonged period of a very low growth. We


can't seek to Europe because The Apprentice -- pretty much in the


same boat. Even though things have slowed a little in China, they


still have trillions of dollars available to invest in Scottish


Asset Management and spend in the development of renewable energy


technology in Scotland. These are the sorts of deals the First


Minister would like to see done. Briefly, we have heard how


important it is to have personal contact in China. This is the First


Minister's third visit there. What is the personal interaction for him,


do you think? Will, I think it is certainly important. -- well. One


thing I have learned here is that in order to do good business there


must be good relations and a mutual understanding of history and


culture. That is why when the premier came to the UK, he started


his visit at the birthplace of Shakespeare. The First Minister has


been visiting the ancient tombs where emperors are visited.


Tomorrow, he will sign at cultural agreement with the Chinese


government. That is thought that will underpin a prosperous


relationship between our two countries. Thank you.


Giving people a greater say in the way their communities are run could


be the route to improving the nation's health. That is the idea


behind the assets approach. Championed by Scotland's Chief


Medical officer Harry Burns, it makes a link between how much


control people feel they have over their own lives and ill health. It


is being piloted on two estates, one in Clackmannanshire, the other


in Kilmarnock in East Ayrshire, where we sent our reporter to take


a look at how it works. These nine-year-old girls are


planning a menu for a Christmas party. This centre is based in


Kilmarnock, the setting for the controversial documentary series,


this scheme. The area has high levels of ill-health and


unemployment. The volunteers that the project want to give children a


greater say in the way that things are run to help turn around their


future. People say that the return of problems is not having control


over their own lives. We want these children to have control over what


they want to do with their lives. We're helping them achieve things


in their education that the maybe did not think the car could achieve.


It is proving popular with the children's. I like playing, like,


well on the computer. I got help to pass my test for. Solutions at this


project come from within the community, not imposed from outside.


These skills are already in the community. It is not about money.


We are the assets of the community working with young people who are


the assets of the future. That is the message this police sergeant is


trying to get across. He is working with the council and other agencies


to listen to the community to find out how they can help them to help


themselves. It is not easy. A lot of community members are very keen.


Momentum is picking up. The more that people learned about it, the


more they are prepared to come on board. This estate in Cornwall is


the inspiration behind the project. In the early 1990s, it was very


deprived. By the year 2,000, crime had fallen by half and child


protection cases dropped by 40%. Unemployment was down by 70% for.


It felt like a bottomless pit of need on this one is state. Everyone


else was looking the other way. The difference for us, I think was that


we felt differently and we saw the community and the residents as the


solution to the problems we were having, and not the problem.


was invited to spread the word about her work at a conference in


Stirling. People who lack a sense of control over their lives are


less likely... This approach attempts to activate and energise


and develop within individuals a sense of being able to be in


control, a sense of moving forward into the future, a sense of wanting


to do the right thing for their health. For example, less likely to


smoke and more likely to exercise. It is not just about that. It is


about being in control over the more complex social interactions as


well. At the north-west youth projects, they are confident that


they are run the Reich tracks. will be issued for the community. -


- that they are all on at the right track. It only takes a few people


to put the wheels in motion. Five residents initially put the wheels


in motion. That grew to 25. Then 100. Then eventually the whole


community of 6,000. It is unbelievable that change. It is a


joy to be there now. People working in these Scottish communities hope


the same will be said about their progress as in the improvement in


What sort of work are you involved I am with the violence reduction


Unit. The assets approach involves ordinary people doing extraordinary


things. Each of us has an asset of some kind, be it a basic skill or


teaching a subject in school. We're attempting to roll these assets out


into the wider community. If we go back to the fundamental


premise, what is the link between feeling you have no control over


your life and mental and physical well-being?


Future. That has been shown in lot of different studies in the various


different aspects. -- it is huge. The Whitehall study was completely


unexpected. It looked at the health of local managers and it was


discovered that the high up you where the less stress you had and


the better your health. It was the junior workers in organisations


that had the worst health. It became clear that it was about


control. Having control over your life, been able to make decisions


for yourself, been able to say yes or no, it is hugely significant for


health and it is not taken on board adequately by people who provide


services. In Glasgow, for example, services provide for people but in


a way that undermines them and does not give them control. So we should


not expect health benefits even though we are spending money on


regeneration. It is interesting that the


discourse surrounding health the talks about ground up rather than


top down. Is there an awareness that we had not seen before?


Absolutely. We have turned the corner. People understand that you


can spend lots of money but if you do it in a way whereby you are


doing it to people, then they will not be as involved or think they


are the ones making a difference. How difference is it to get people


involved law? There could be an aspect of low self-confidence. When


you try to engage and energise a community how difficult can that be,


and can you always reach the kind of people that you want to reach?


It is a slow process. We tell people that at the start. We


attempt to gain trust and we avoid terms like project and initiative.


Because they come and go when funds run out. So we tell them, the only


promise we're making is to raise your hopes and aspirations and


empowered you to do things for your community.


What kind of things? You have to work alongside


different services from the public sector. We have had full strategic


by and from local councils and the police. They are keen to develop


the approach. Through listening events we locate the source of


energy, if you like. Each neighbourhood has won. Be that in


relation to anti-social behaviour, the housing stock, on employment,


every neighbourhood is unique. So people come for an say, these


are our priorities, this is what should happen, this is what we need


to do to make it happen? Absolutely. Like the youth projects


in Kilmarnock. But that is just one aspect of this approach. Another


example is an elderly chap who started an archery club. The term


is immaterial. The main part of the initiative is bringing together


young people with old people. Inter-generational, breaking down


barriers. It builds trust and people feel safe in one another's


company. Rebuilding community spirit then?


That is already there. It is about cohesion.


What seems to be a problem with other projects is that people do


engage and a keen on interaction but then the money goes and there


is no ongoing support. This surely must be an ongoing problem?


Yes. And what is different here is that if it is a shaft in the way


agencies were, if they see themselves as a catalyst and


enabler in supporting local people who are primarily in the driving


seat, then that is different. That is not a project, it is a different


style of working. If we can get that we have achieved something


genuinely different to what has gone before.


But can we always be confident of reaching the people will benefit


most? Are a lot of this is about seeing


people in a different way. Much more active in their lives. The


benefits for young people looking at those in their community and


seen them in charge of their lives, is huge.


Is it that you're experience? My colleagues working in this area


completely encourage this approach. We have discovered tremendous asset


to are already reaching the people you are talking about. They attend


a hour or monthly events. Each event is themed. Health, employment,


whatever it might be. These people meet the service providers face to


face and shape the services of the future.


Thank you very much. The Conservative back benches now,


where Annabel Goldie is focusing her political energies after


leadership on keeping Scotland in the Union. But life remains a


challenge. I asked her to reflect on her time at the helm.


Just about every day brought something you could not foresee.


That is the nature of politics. It is one of the most unpredictable


fields of activity you can imagine. That is what is exhilarating about


it. You never do quite know from one day to the next what will


happen. I always remember, I do not know it was my first speech to the


conference after becoming leader, but I was very nervous and remember


saying to everybody, is this in place? Is that in place? I drove


them round the bend, to be honest. Somebody eventually said, can down,


all you need to do is walk onto the stage, greet the audience and walk


to the microphone. For all the life of me I could not see any speech,


any piece of this lectern where you could conceal a speech, and then I


realised there was no speech at all! So why at two walk-on and


endeavour to cover up by eight saying openly, my appeals will be


enhanced if I know where the speech as! Somebody rushed on.


You have often used humour to defuse a hostile situations, and


then often used it as a weapon. There is a place for humour. It can


lighten or sharpen a situation. But you must be careful not in


deploying a shoe market to diminish or trivialise a situation. --


deployed in humour. I would hate to think I have ever done that. But it


can sometimes put people at ease or illustrate a point more graphically


than some other mode of approach. Sometimes the humour is just the


quickest way to uproot a we pen and a bit of pomposity.


Who will keep these two under control? Grab them by the short-


term car lease? Unfortunately for the First


Minister, patting himself on the back does not count as Physical


Education! You must respect the courage and


integrity of people who do make with you. But they too have a


obligation. -- people who it debate with you. You must not diminish


their debate with mindless attacks on opponents. That is denigrated


and self diminishing. I am not saying I have not stepped over the


line from time to time. I probably have. But as a rule, always


remember the arguments, what you are trying to communicate and why.


People would say that this persona has always been effective. Your


personal ratings have always been higher there than the party. Is


this something you have contrived to do because everybody needs a


shield in public life? What do you think that one of your strengths is


that you are 100% authentic? You have to be yourself. People can


agree or disagree but at least they know where you're coming from and


why. It would be good for politics if we could encourage more people


to be less obedient to the preconceived shape of what it is to


be a member of their party, and may be just a little more prepared from


time to time to beat themselves. Because you can do that without


being disloyal or causing difficulty to your party. I think


it might be a breath of fresh air in politics If we just got


Unleashed from time to time. There is a lot of vibration here!


It is liberating. Do not get me wrong, I loved being the leader. It


gave me pleasure and I could not have done it if that were not the


case. But I am very positive about the life I am rapidly rediscovering.


I have always been keen on board watching. In the air where I live


in Bishopton, near to the Clyde estuary, it is a marvellous place


for watching belts. It is relaxing and peaceful. -- bird watching. It


is pretty rich in diversity in terms of a wildlife here. The


greatest compliment I was paid by the media was being compared with


more prune. -- Maw Broon. You just have to let hostile comments at


roll off you. It is quite a discipline though.


I don't know. I am fortunate. I have a great family and friends.


Lots of interests. These were the things, for example the charge,


very important. -- the Church. I hoped that these things would


continue to keep me grounded. I never lost sight of the compass


point that I endeavoured to keep fixed upon. It was not about me. I


was not all that important in the whole thing. It was about the job I


had to do. To look back on today and ahead to


next week and joined now by a political correspondent and the


environmentally editor of the Sunday Herald. Have you taken time


out from visiting the zoo to be here?


No. It makes me queasy to be quite honest. Yes, there are important


elements, attractive animals, important things to say about our


relationship with China, but would I go to see them? North. Probably


yes if my kids were still young. So, flexible principles!


What I will say which is a bit cheeky as, I gather Alex Salmond


and Jeremy Clarkson are both in China right now. Wouldn't a swap of


be a good long-term arrangement! Speaking about renewables now, some


very interesting relationships have been set up about research and


exchange of renewables. Where is that going?


One of the problems with China is that it will build more coal-fired


power stations than anyone else and contribute a massive amount of


pollution which will wreck the climate in the future. So anything


we can do to persuade them to go more renewable is bound to be a


good thing. How persuasive our hour powers


these day if we are actually over there with the begging bowl, to be


blunt? On one level we have no choice but


to engage. The politics is very interesting. The constitutional


question is all wrapped up in this. These pandas have been gifted to do


it United Kingdom, say ministers, not Scotland. Alex Salmond and the


other hand emphasises that this it builds on the friendship and links


between Scotland and China. We were talking earlier about the


human rights question. Is this the correct climate to raise that, or


inevitably, will this be watered I think you would be wrong if Alex


Salmond comes back from China without their least raising the


issue of human rights because it is fundamental. There are many things


wrong with human rights in China. But one suspects he might do it on


a quiet because there are so many commercial opportunities. That is a


little uncomfortable for me. In the look at the new figures about the


economy and is critical meeting in terms of what happens in the


eurozone, we had a poor economic forecast and that was the best case


scenario. Do you think the penny has dropped with us all about what


could be coming down the road here? I don't think it has. I think there


is a slight Disconnect in Scotland where it seems to be regarded as


somebody else's problem. The SNP and Alex Salmond, who has a


background as an economist, are almost silent on this issue. That


said, all of the parties in Scotland are guilty to a similar


extent. The Scottish constitutional bobbled which thinks only about


internal matters of the constitution and not about arguably


much more important things going on in Europe. It is difficult to see


this going well. The direction of travel seems clear, closer fiscal


unity. But this could drag on for years and this is not what the


markets one. Do you think domestic politicians -- how much power do


domestic politicians have if that is the scenario we're moving


towards a? Less than they probably think they have. I am not an expert


on the eurozone. I like using Euros, but I worry about whether reckon


use them next year. Alex Salmond in China, will he make an influence?


Political magazine presented by Jon Sopel and Isabel Fraser.

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