10/10/2013 The View

Tonight, two murders and ten major security alert in just four days.

Will recent events damage the international investment conference

which got underway tonight? The Secretary of State joins me live

from Hillsborough Castle with her thoughts. With me in the studio, or

the McGuinness, Pat Sheehan and Jeffery Donaldson. Also tonight.

After his brother is found guilty of child sex abuse, does Gerry Adams

have questions to answer? I will be reporting. And here to debate the

investment conference and the continuing dissident threat, our

commentators Professors Heenan and Wilford.

You can follow the rogue RAM on twitter. -- you can follow the

programme on twitter. It is being billed as an opportunity

to take Northern Ireland to another level economically and tonight some

of the leading business figures of the area are at Ellsberg Castle

attending a dinner to start the Northern Ireland investment

conference. It is well police open in quiet -- it is while police open

enquiries into the death of Kevin Carey and Ari McCrory. Will they

overshadow events? -- Kevin Carey and Barry McCrory. Is there a real

danger that the two murders in two days will overshadow the investment

conference? These were two horrific crimes and I have huge sympathy with

the families who have lost their loved ones. But I do think it is

important for the investment conference to go ahead. There is a

very up beat message, of course there are issues in Northern Ireland

still to be resolved. And incidents like this and straight --

still to be resolved. And incidents demonstrate how significant some of

those problems are. There is also a huge progress that has been made and

it is true that Northern Ireland is a great place to live and

investment. That is the message that the executive and the UK government

are taking to some very major business figures who are here this

evening in Hillsborough and who will be covered in Belfast tomorrow. Are

you now clear that dissident republicans were responsible for the

two murders? I think it is too premature to reach that conclusion.

Certainly many people believe that to be the case. But I would urge

anyone with information about who might be responsible to speak to the

police. I know the police will be working incredibly hard to bring to

justice the people responsible for these horrific crimes. There is no

justification, no excuse for report murders -- brutal murders of this

sort. The fact it come so soon after the shooting in east Belfast is

despicable. I would urge anyone with information to come forward to make

sure that everything can be done to bring to justice the people

responsible. The chief constable has made it clear recently that he needs

in his view more investment in policing here. The funding is not

there to recruit the number of officers he says he needs to keep

his numbers at the critical 7000 mark. Will the Treasury stepped in

to supplement the cost of policing? The Treasury already does that. In

this spending review and the next one. We take our national security

responsibilities very seriously. I am having a very helpful dialogue

with the chief constable, and the justice minister about the issues

you have raised. It is not impossible that additional funds

could be forthcoming from the Treasury but that is not guaranteed,

it will depend on future spending rounds. It is also the case that the

majority of funding for policing in Northern Ireland comes from the

executive from the block grant, so this is primarily a matter for the

executive. I am very much engaged in this and we are looking carefully at

the research work the chief constable has done on the resources

he needs. We will have to see what we can do to ensure that he

continues to get the resources that he needs. But we are all operating

under constrained budgets. What are your hopes, moving on, for the

number of new investors this conference might be bringing to

Northern Ireland? I have not set the jobs target, but we have had some

significant good news in terms of jobs announcements today. I think

the Prime Minister's participation tomorrow is going to provide a real

boost. And Northern Ireland is a great place to sell. It is a

low-cost environment, it has a highly skilled, very dedicated and

loyal workforce. It has a business friendly regulatory and tax climate.

All of these things are explanations as to why the big investors who come

to Northern Ireland have invested again and -- expanded their

operations. It will be groups like Citigroup who are addressing the

conference tomorrow, explaining what a positive experience they have had,

explaining why they came to Northern Ireland and have expanded their

operations. Are you concerned about the recent OECD report that says

though is a huge problem with young people 's new Morrissey and literacy

skills? That is not want -- numerous the literacy skills? That is not

want investors want to hear. That is not what is being suggested. The

Northern Ireland education system produces some fabulous results. But

everyone would acknowledge that every education system has areas

where it could do better. Educational underachievement is

something which is a concern in Northern Ireland and I know the

executive take that very seriously. I think there is no taking away from

the fact that one of the many reasons why Northern Ireland has had

such success and inward investment is the quality of its workforce. But

yes, clearly there is more work to be done in terms particularly with

early intervention, early years education, and I know this is

something that the education minister and the executive is

focused on dealing with. How do you think we should judge the success or

otherwise of this conference? How will we know if it's has achieved

what it set out to achieve? I think if it has, in the months to come,

some of the participants in this conference either expand the

operation is a already have here or make decisions to invest in the

first time, that will be a sign that the conference has succeeded. I hope

tomorrow there will be good news from current investors about the

expansion plans as well. We have had a strained relationship between the

first Minister and the Deputy first Minister for some months now, we

have seen them to date singing from the same song sheet, but are you

concerned that deteriorating relations between the two main

parties in general will not persuade people to invest? There was a very

parties in general will not persuade strong united front from the first

and Deputy first Minister, both of them were very clear on the

importance of working together, the stability of critical institutions.

Both of them emphasised that. They were singing from the same hymn

sheet. I think that is a demonstration that their work is

underway. I have said this many times, working in any coalition

gives rise to pensions and bumps in the road. If you are working in a

5-part coalition with parties from diametrically opposed viewpoints on

all sorts of issues, constitutional and economic, there will be times

where it is difficult to make progress and get agreement on

issues. I think tonight demonstrated the continuing strength of the

working relationships between the first and deputy first minister. We

will let you get back to your guests in help the parcel. -- Hillsborough

Castle. I am joined by Pat Sheehan, Alden McGuinness and Jeffery

Donaldson. You are all welcome. Pat Sheehan first of all, we have come

onto talk about the investment conference, but the two murders we

have witnessed in as many days appeared to have been carried out by

dissident republicans. That is the backdrop against which we see this

investment conference taking place. Do they not demonstrate very clearly

that the vice like grip that Sinn Fein once had on republicanism does

not exist any more? I do not agree with your comment about a vice like

grip. Leaving that to the side for a minute, these dissidents appear to

have stepped up their activities over the past couple of days

deliberately aimed at undermining any positivity that might come out

of this conference. The fact is they have nothing to offer. They have

very little support within our communities. And all they have

achieved here is to leave two men dead and two families grieving. Even

in terms of dealing with the drugs issue, killing people doesn't work.

Was this about criminality or pyre -- political ideology? The hypocrisy

of some of these groups beggars belief cost it is a well-known fact

that some of them are extorting money from drug dealers to line

their own pockets and they are involved in other types of

comparative. They are in no position to tell this community that they are

acting on the behalf of some sort of police force. The problem that you

have, that may or may not be the case, but they still continue to

operate in the communities which you represent. You are in west Belfast.

This murder today took place in Derry. There was a murder yesterday

in North Belfast. Dissidents are able to operate in Republican

heartland, you cannot stop them. Absolutely. And the way to stop

them, bear in mind it is not just dissident republicans, there was a

young woman shot and seriously dissident republicans, there was a

injured in east Belfast as well. There are other anti-agreement

elements out there who wants to undermine institutions. The way to

undermine then is to ensure that the institutions of rock -- rock solid.

The partnership is aimed as an anecdote to the valid activity of

these groups, and to sectarianism within society. So all political

leaders need to stand up and set up within society. So all political

to the mark. Is there a policing solution to this situation at the

moment? Two in part there is a policing solution. But what we have

got here is a very bad combination. One is bad things happening on the

ground in north Belfast and Derry, but also in addition to that we have

got bad politics. When you take the accommodation of bad politics, as

highlighted with the decision on the Maze and DUP and Sinn Fein attacking

one another and the divisive nature of the executive, I think that

creates an atmosphere in which those who are dissident, whether it be

Loyalist or Republican, art able to exercise a disproportional influence

in the community. It also creates a very bad image internationally for

all of us. We have got to get back very bad image internationally for

to the principles of partnership. And working together, -- Catholic

and Protestant, to build together the community and new.

We saw them to standing up tonight and talking to potential investors

so at times they can do that. I salute that can pay tribute to that

sort of stance. Unfortunately it does not go much further than that.

What we have got to do is rebuild the whole nature of the executive

and the Assembly in terms of recreating a genuine partnership of

goodwill between both communities and both political traditions. I

will come on to that political dimension to the conversation in

just a moment but I want to talk about the security situation. Other

police overstretched, as the police constable suggests, he says he

needs more resources? There are lot of things happening and

unfortunately two families have been plunged into tragedy and we

have seen a whole series of alerts in Belfast in the past few days.

have seen a whole series of alerts That is very true. First of all I

would want to say that we condemn these murders are unequivocally. It

is dreadful that yet again we have people out on our streets

committing cold-blooded murder and, indeed, we condemn the attempted

committing cold-blooded murder and, murder of the young woman in east

Belfast. Anyone who takes guns on to the streets has nothing to offer

Belfast. Anyone who takes guns on the community, regardless of what

colour they where or what their motivation is supposed to be a. The

second thing I would say is this, we need to stand together and we

need to show a united front. I have heard what Alban Maginness said

when he spoke about partnership. Would it not be a good thing if,

for example in the interests of partnership, and the interests of

tackling the organised crime that is at the heart of this type of

paramilitary activity that we are witnessing, if Alban Maginness's

party supported the organised crime agency that was established this

week could operate in Northern Ireland. Wouldn't it be great if

senior members of the DUP spoke -- thought long and hard if they would

support a protest that was costing £50,000 a day to get back at their

chief constable? I have been up at the protest during the day and

there was one police Land-Rover there and it is completely peaceful.

there was one police Land-Rover I do nothing that is the problem

for the police. I heard it is costing 50p -- a lot of money per

for the police. I heard it is day. When people were cheering for

the reduction in police numbers down to their current level, there

would be a problem. When difficulty arose, as inevitably it they would,

we knew the police would be stretched and that is what is

happening. We recognise there is a need to increase police resources

because they should not have been cut to this level in the first

instance. If you're arguing that the problem for the police is a

peaceful protest with a handful of people at Twaddell Avenue, and is

under dissident threat of the head of MI5 this week identified as the

serious threat that it is, but also said it would be defeated. I am not

arguing that, but what I am suggesting is that maybe this is a

distraction for the police that they could do without at a time

like this. We have at their -- we live in a democratic society and

people have the right to protest peacefully and within the law. They

have the right but is a peacefully and within the law. They

responsible? What would be responsible is if for the seven

minutes it would take for that parade to walk on a stretch of the

main road that does not belong to anybody except the public in

Northern Ireland, to complete its route, then we would not have this

Northern Ireland, to complete its kind of problem. Absolutely, a lot

of people think that is the case, but in the absence of that, is it

sensible to continue with the process -- protest at a cost of

£50,000 a day? If we should see a bit of tolerance in our society.

£50,000 a day? If we should see a That is what we really need to say.

I would suggest that Geoffrey showed advise those people who have

made their point at Twaddell Avenue, they have made their point and

everybody knows the. They are making, let them suspender protest

and suspend trying to go up the road and let them partake in the

process to find a solution within it, or alternatively talk to the

residents on the Ardoyne side. Let us talk about the investment

conference. We heard what the Secretary of State had to say and a

lot of people are hoping for a all we Libya triumph of style over

substance? First of all to go back to the previous point, I think we

should stop calling it a peaceful process. It is designed to raise

tension right on the interface. It process. It is designed to raise

is on the end to face, the most volatile and phase in the North.

That is what the people in the organisation said is about. If they

are interested in a peaceful protest Test, why not ruled --

effect written a peaceful protest, why not move it back? Back in the

conference, I would be optimistic that this is going to produce some

jobs. I think it can only do God and -- do good and it is the we

should all support and support robustly. How would you judge if it

is a success? I think we would judge in terms of jobs and

investment, coming into Northern Ireland, and we will be able to see

that in the next 12 months. Are you optimistic? There are 120 interest

groups according to the Secretary of State, 14 governments and 55

potential investors, we ought to be able to get something out of it but

we Libya enough? There are many regions in the UK who would give

their eye teeth to have this kind regions in the UK who would give

of investment conference. We have done well to get these people here.

I am confident that there will be positive results. Already we have

had indications that many of the people who have come here have come

here with a purpose, which is to invest in Northern Ireland. I

believe therefore that is where the real hope for this community is.

Four we need to leave it there. Thank you very much for joining us

Four we need to leave it there. on the programme tonight. Next a

story that has dominated the headlines here and in the republic

for the past week. Gerry Adams. Questions are still being asked

about what steps the Sinn Fein president to have to inform the

about what steps the Sinn Fein authorities here about his brother,

convicted last week of raping and abusing his daughter over a six-

week period. The Police Ombudsman and the Attorney-General are

week period. The Police Ombudsman examining the case. Gerry Adams

said his brother confess to him in the year 2000 dancers he did not

tell the police immediately although he insists he has done

nothing wrong. Where does all this leave him now? Stephen Walker has

been to Dublin and Dundalk to see what people they think.

This has been in Gerry Adams's political home since 2011, when he

became a ETD for this town. It is also the town where his brother was

a year if worker. This story has two parts, the personal and the

political. Gerry Adams insists there are certain sections of the

media and some of his opponents are trying to politicise a family

tragedy. Others insist that the Sinn Fein president has serious

questions to answer. Has all of this damaged Gerry Adams? If it has,

this is the place where you would find out first. On the streets of

Dundalk, support for the local TD appears strong. Do you think you

have any questions to answer? No, I don't. I don't think so. He is not

personally involved with any of it so why does he have to answer? Did

he know about it or did he not? If he was aware of what was going on,

why did he not stand up and say it? I don't think he has been damaged

at all by its strange enough. From what I fear of Gerry Adams, you get

at all by its strange enough. From what you see. I think it is unfair

the way it has been so publicised. It is a private matter and that so

I think it is unfair on them. This man edits the local paper. He says

that Gerry Adams's account raises questions. Obviously the

Republicans to stare -- historically would not have co-

operated with the security services. There was a question why there was

a time lag and that is a difficult question to which she does not have

a clear answer. I do not think he has come up with a clear answer.

The story of Liam Adams's conviction has dominated the news

in the past week. Gerry Adams insists that he has done nothing

wrong. I know that I committed no offence and I did what I considered

to be the right thing and I co- operated fully with the PSNI, the

PPS, the courts and I gave evidence in the court, so I don't have any

concerns. Like Gerry Adams, Mary Mumford represents the people of

Dundalk. The Labour servitor feels that the Sinn Fein president must

provide some answers. It would concern me about the allegations

that have been made. If he had known about the allegations and he

had not reported them then I think he has some serious questions that

had not reported them then I think need to be answered. I think any to

be answered now. She is not her lap - Rishi is not alone. Others agree.

Mr Adams should make a statement of what knowledge she had and what

knowledge he passed on of wrong doing. Other organisations and

indeed a member of his own party have called for him to come forward

and make that explanation. Do you think he held information back? I

will not accuse him because I do not know but I think he should make

will not accuse him because I do it clear statement about what

knowledge she had and clearer tore up. Gerry Adams insists that those

knowledge she had and clearer tore who have attacked him recently are

politically motivated. I do take exception to the quite despicable

lobby that is going on. I learnt that the DUP and some of them

anyway, are coming at this in a very political way so I totally

reject that. So, are the opponents of Sinn Fein simply playing

politics? Some opponents suggest that there are parallels with the

Catholic Church. There is very little tolerance for non reporting

of child abuse. We have seen too many bad stories if so it is a very

difficult one for Gerry Adams to explain to the public why it seems

that he did not report instantly in this case and that is the essential

difficulty for him. This used to be the Harland for Gerry Adams and it

is also part of the Liam Adams story, he was a youth worker here.

This man is a former IRA prisoner and a critic of Sinn Fein. He

claims that Liam Adams was protected and first that in the

past suspected child abusers were shot by the IRA. The Republican

movement would have responded to that by sending a punishment squad

random shooting them a couple of times in the legs. They would have

made it clear it was an abuser. It is a bad way of dealing with things

but that was the way it was done then. The bad thing is that the

issue has become so high up within then. The bad thing is that the

the republican family and the way it has been dealt with. That causes

major problems I believe for the credibility of Gerry Adams. The

Gertrude Frankham has suffered the most in this entire story is

undoubtedly Aine Adams. Four months her tragedy has become front-page

news. Liam Adams may have been convicted but as the Police

Ombudsman and the Attorney General begin fresh investigations, serious

Ombudsman and the Attorney General questions still remain.

Joining me tonight are Professor Deidre Heenan and Rick Wilford.

Thank you very much for being here. First of all let us talk about the

investment conference. We had a live interview with the Secretary

of State there. What are your hopes and expectations for what it might

deliver? We know that it will attract

investment and that is a long-term process. We note from 2008,

companies have said they are acting as advocates and Northern Ireland.

There is enormous international goodwill and we need to grab hold of

it while it is still there, it will not last forever. It is important

that we put our best foot forward and showcase what Northern Ireland

has to offer. Applicable to deputy first minister who said 75 of

company -- 75% of companies who invest here will invest again? Two

it is about our work force. We are invest here will invest again? Two

getting people to sell Northern Ireland on our behalf, those

companies. We have two stand back a bit. There are no quick wins here,

we have to wait. One of the things we might have do wait for is the

point that you make, the low skill levels and levels of literacy in

numerous the in young people. Another thing which could be a brake

on the wheel is the fact that our political class is particularly at

Street level seem determined to make a difficult situation seem almost

impossible. We need to wake up or there will not be any copy to smell.

What about the backdrop, the security situation, it is not go to.

It is not like the darkest days of the trouble is that we have had two

murders in as many days. They are called but it murders, we have had

mayhem across Northern Ireland with bomb alerts. -- it was cold-blooded

mayhem across Northern Ireland with murders. The people of Northern

Ireland are shocked and horrified and saying very clearly, we don't

want to go back to the dark days of the Troubles. Peace is here but it

has to be nurtured, and political stability insures dissidents don't

have the space and it will diminish from underneath them. The

conversation we had from our politicians does not give us

optimism. They had to own their words. People have rights but I

think we should have two talk about responsibilities. You may have

rights but you don't have to use them. What about the backdrop, how

concerned are you that it would put people off? It could, but these

deaths, these executions as you said, they were horrendous. The

strength of the reaction has demonstrated how unusual this is.

Actually I don't think we should necessarily go to the conclusion

that it is dissident republicans. This could be criminality, with

drugs involved and goodness knows what. I do not think, it is an awful

two episode in 24-hour 's. But I'm not certain that will deter people.

I think it is more the political impasse at the top, that is

difficult to overcome. Let's have a look at some sweets.

That is a very laudable, you might say. Another great success, you are

a keen follower of Twitter. That is not trending. It is not trending

locally. It only had eight re-tweets. That is an example of

social media saying thank you but no thank you. From the bottom up it

works but if you try from the top down, people reject it. This is from

Belfast, a left-wing candidate. That is excellent news, a man who is

anti-sectarian, it strikes the right note. Here's a fine playwright and

much applauded and amended by many. Thank you very much indeed. That is

much applauded and amended by many. almost it from tonight, but first

the thought of our man with the inside track.

Storm onto security here, on high alert today. We had orders to make

sure certain dangerous individuals could not make it near the assembly.

Not Ken Maginnis! Dave Trimble and Shane Mellon. The lads on the Hill

Not Ken Maginnis! Dave Trimble and were raging so they immediately

descended and decided to set up a review group to report back to a

decision-making subcommittee. We have got investors coming over today

so everyone has to smile and pretend everything is hunky-dory and

Northern Ireland is a great place to invest in. So nobody mention how

much deleting the marches costs, or the 80 million of maize money we

threw away, or how we had 19.5 million in Clyde finds. -- unpaid

fines. You can't park there! Over 20 quid, we'll say no more about it.

That is it from The View this week, I meet on Sunday Politics on Sunday.