14/11/2013 The View


14/11/2013

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 14/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Tonight, will it be a memorable Christmas for the right reasons for

:00:00.:00:28.

Belfast this year? Republican and loyalist leaders have been meeting

:00:29.:00:30.

senior police officers in another round of talks, aimed at easing

:00:31.:00:35.

tensions on the streets. I'll be talking to Billy Hutchinson and

:00:36.:00:38.

Gerry Kelly, who've just come from that meeting. The battle over

:00:39.:00:42.

planning looks set to intensify with a Stormont showdown now looming.

:00:43.:00:48.

planning looks set to intensify with one thing I'm fairly sure of is we

:00:49.:00:52.

cannot allow a minister to ignore the will of the executive and ignore

:00:53.:00:57.

the will of the assembly, and ignore the needs of the economy. Later,

:00:58.:01:03.

find out what would happen if we lose ?5 million a month, and how

:01:04.:01:06.

Edwin Poots can improve his image. Here to make sense of it all are

:01:07.:01:09.

tonight's commentators, Alex Kane and Paul McFadden. And you can, of

:01:10.:01:15.

course, follow the programme on Twitter. That's @BBCtheview. Another

:01:16.:01:24.

meeting of the so-called Cardiff talks, designed to relieve tension

:01:25.:01:27.

on the streets here, has just ended in the last hour. Senior police

:01:28.:01:29.

figures, politicians and representatives of loyalist groups

:01:30.:01:32.

are holding the talks against a backdrop of the ongoing Twaddell

:01:33.:01:35.

Avenue dispute and the forthcoming first anniversary of the flag

:01:36.:01:38.

protests. Earlier I spoke to the Chairman of the Northern Ireland

:01:39.:01:40.

Tourist Board, Howard Hastings. He told me he's concerned at the

:01:41.:01:47.

possibility of any more unrest. I would be hopeful to get a

:01:48.:01:51.

resolution, because I think the ongoing protests are potentially

:01:52.:01:55.

very damaging to business over the Christmas period. What is your

:01:56.:02:00.

assessment as to how damaging the protests have been? The main area I

:02:01.:02:10.

see this is Tourism Ireland's coverage especially close to home.

:02:11.:02:14.

And holiday-makers, when they are coming to a destination, their first

:02:15.:02:19.

beer is of safety and security. If they are not going somewhere where

:02:20.:02:22.

they can feel safe and secure, they will go somewhere else. We will

:02:23.:02:26.

never know how many visitors we lost this summer because of the very Poor

:02:27.:02:31.

coverage -- poor coverage that was broadcast in the Republic and Great

:02:32.:02:42.

Britain last year. The Sinn Fein MLA Gerry Kelly and the leader of the

:02:43.:02:46.

Progressive Unionist Party, Billy Hutchinson, with me now. The DUP was

:02:47.:02:50.

invited to the talks tonight but your party chose not to be there,

:02:51.:02:56.

why not? We didn't choose not to be there. We have two people, only one

:02:57.:03:02.

attends. It's one of those two. Unfortunately, not of them could

:03:03.:03:08.

make it. We had other commitments. That is nothing to do with not being

:03:09.:03:14.

at the Cardiff talks. It wasn't a significant enough meeting to be

:03:15.:03:18.

there? As far as I'm concerned, I have one of two people I can choose

:03:19.:03:23.

and non-were available. And you were not prepared to go as your self,

:03:24.:03:29.

leader of the party? We need continuity. I chose the two people

:03:30.:03:35.

that go normally, only one of them is allowed to attend. We've only got

:03:36.:03:41.

one member. There is no continuity in not being there. I don't want to

:03:42.:03:45.

get into a debate about this. Let me be clear, there are other people who

:03:46.:03:49.

have no lack of representatives. I've only got one representative.

:03:50.:03:53.

Therefore, the person I wanted to centre Knight couldn't go and we

:03:54.:03:58.

couldn't send anybody. OK, but are you happy with the process, do you

:03:59.:04:12.

think it is important and do you intend to be there next time? It is

:04:13.:04:14.

an important process. That process is around police and relationships

:04:15.:04:16.

with different communities. As long as people stick to an agenda, I'm

:04:17.:04:21.

happy enough. Is it significant that the PUP wasn't represented tonight?

:04:22.:04:28.

He's answered that question. It's there are enough. Was there anything

:04:29.:04:32.

significant that came out of the discussions? The discussions are

:04:33.:04:37.

private, in the sense that we are going through a process. It's about

:04:38.:04:42.

a relationship. We are very strict it is a better relationship. It has

:04:43.:04:49.

been helpful, if you return to the statement that came out of Cardiff

:04:50.:04:53.

and the principles that were called the Cardiff principles, they are

:04:54.:04:59.

still there and are very advanced. We will continue those discussions.

:05:00.:05:03.

But they are not there to replace anything else. There's a particular

:05:04.:05:13.

focus on public order policing. To be clear about those principles, in

:05:14.:05:18.

shorthand version they were recognising support for the police

:05:19.:05:22.

and it was a commitment on the part of the parties that were present to

:05:23.:05:26.

resolve differences through dialogue and non-violent means. A reminder

:05:27.:05:30.

that people need to be very careful about what they say in public. That

:05:31.:05:34.

commitment didn't stop the summer of unrest, of course. It wasn't

:05:35.:05:39.

intended to stop a summer of unrest. It is an effort by a wide range of

:05:40.:05:45.

people to at least, if there is unrest, to deal with it in the

:05:46.:05:53.

proper way. We did go through it. There's no point us continually

:05:54.:05:58.

saying that the will move forward and have proven to be and then to

:05:59.:06:01.

say that we shouldn't have this dialogue. I think it is very

:06:02.:06:07.

helpful. Your party remains signed up to those commitments that were

:06:08.:06:14.

agreed in May? We remain signed up to the principles of this. We also

:06:15.:06:20.

recognise that we need to work to make sure there is no violence on

:06:21.:06:27.

the ground. But we also are committed to complaining about the

:06:28.:06:30.

police whenever the police use public order in their own way. The

:06:31.:06:34.

police are quite clear, we meet with the police all of the time. We will

:06:35.:06:39.

say when the police get it wrong. Let's talk about what might or might

:06:40.:06:43.

not happen over the next few weeks. We heard from the chairman of the

:06:44.:06:47.

tourist board saying he hopes there is not any further unrest because

:06:48.:06:51.

the unrest that we saw from last Christmas right through to the

:06:52.:06:55.

summer certainly didn't help the Northern Ireland economy, didn't

:06:56.:07:06.

help businessmen, people who run restaurants in the centre of Belfast

:07:07.:07:09.

or tourism. Do you accept that needs to be a big priority, to make sure

:07:10.:07:12.

we don't have a repeat of what has gone before? We will continue to do

:07:13.:07:15.

what we do, we don't want to see violence. Don't forget to mention

:07:16.:07:17.

that young people who are now in prison because of this. These are

:07:18.:07:20.

young people who have never been in trouble before. We don't want to see

:07:21.:07:23.

this happening, but we now have young people who are in prison. We

:07:24.:07:28.

also need to focus on the loyalist communities don't see how the police

:07:29.:07:32.

police the same way as they do everywhere else. We also see the

:07:33.:07:35.

justice system treating young loyalists and other people of all

:07:36.:07:38.

ages from loyalist communities in a different way. Howl in a different

:07:39.:07:44.

way? If they are in prison they are in prison because they did something

:07:45.:07:48.

wrong. We have people who have done very little wrong other than be

:07:49.:07:49.

involved in protest very little wrong other than be

:07:50.:07:56.

not allowed to in Belfast. Republicans are in front armed

:07:57.:08:01.

conflict offences and they are getting bail. We can do this. There

:08:02.:08:05.

are lots of things we need to look at. People in loyalist communities

:08:06.:08:09.

feel they are not getting fair treatment from police or the

:08:10.:08:13.

courts. The PBS are going back and saying that people who get suspended

:08:14.:08:16.

sentences and isn't strong enough, they are asking the judge is to put

:08:17.:08:20.

them into prison rather than suspended sentences. That doesn't

:08:21.:08:25.

happen in Republican cases. I be interested to know if Gerry Kelly

:08:26.:08:29.

agrees with anything you've said. Do you think there is an issue over the

:08:30.:08:33.

way that loyalist protests are policed compared to the way

:08:34.:08:37.

Republican protests are policed? I notice he used the word perception.

:08:38.:08:42.

There is a perception of this happening and this -- and that

:08:43.:08:50.

happening. A couple of years ago, when there were all sorts of people

:08:51.:08:54.

arrested in Ardoyne and when there was also violence in Carrickfergus,

:08:55.:09:01.

Ballyclare and other places, I was on arguing there was differential

:09:02.:09:08.

policing. I have a simple thing to say about all of that. If you want

:09:09.:09:13.

to look at the balance in this case, you have to look at this year

:09:14.:09:17.

compared to last year and the previous year. In the end, what is

:09:18.:09:21.

expected of the police is they police impartially. Do they do that,

:09:22.:09:27.

in your view? Yes, I think they are at long last. There was a period

:09:28.:09:32.

after December three last year when it took something like 13

:09:33.:09:35.

after December three last year when get them to do policing at all. I

:09:36.:09:41.

just want to comment. That's fine for Gerry talking like that because

:09:42.:09:46.

what happens is people elected in Republican communities actually make

:09:47.:09:50.

sure that they challenge it in the policing board. Our difficulty is we

:09:51.:09:55.

don't have Unionist politicians who are chart -- in this. For anyone

:09:56.:10:00.

involved in protests in loyalist communities, they feel that nobody

:10:01.:10:06.

fight their corner. The difference I say is Unionists don't do it and

:10:07.:10:12.

Republicans to do it. Far be it from me to stand up for Unionist

:10:13.:10:15.

politicians, but I do sit on a police board and some of the points

:10:16.:10:20.

that Billy is making are valid. Other people might say if you don't

:10:21.:10:24.

bring people out onto the streets to engage in protests, they will not

:10:25.:10:26.

get involved in engage in protests, they will not

:10:27.:10:30.

not get caught up in violence and not find themselves in front of the

:10:31.:10:33.

courts. Mike Nesbitt, Ulster Unionist Party leader, says people

:10:34.:10:39.

should stay off the streets and not affect the economy adversely, as has

:10:40.:10:43.

been done in the past. Does he make a fair point? Was it done before the

:10:44.:10:48.

letter or after the letter his party set out? The two main Unionist

:10:49.:10:53.

parties other people who send letters out about the flag protest.

:10:54.:10:58.

That is the genesis of all of this. Listen, it doesn't matter whether it

:10:59.:11:04.

was a very long time ago or not. Mike needs to realise that his party

:11:05.:11:09.

sent the letter out. That is the genesis of all of this. At the end

:11:10.:11:15.

of the day, in terms of protests, loyalists not allowed to protest?

:11:16.:11:19.

You would have to see Sinn Fein about that. People who took the

:11:20.:11:23.

national flag of this country... Are you talking about the leaflet that

:11:24.:11:27.

was sent out to people in east Belfast about the flag? His point is

:11:28.:11:34.

the protests last year didn't work. They were counter-productive. People

:11:35.:11:39.

need to rethink the strategy. The last thing Belfast needs and the

:11:40.:11:42.

last thing Unionism needs, Mike Nesbitt says, is for that to happen

:11:43.:11:49.

again. People can protest. If Mike has changed his tune from other

:11:50.:11:56.

protests like that, that is up to him. I do think loyalists are

:11:57.:12:00.

entitled to protest. If the protests are peaceful, what is the problem?

:12:01.:12:06.

They haven't been peaceful. They have. Very few... Very few have had

:12:07.:12:17.

violence. Too many have had violence. Not too many. Very few

:12:18.:12:22.

have had violence. It is some too many, that's the point. You can't

:12:23.:12:26.

control it when you bring people onto the streets. Mike Nesbitt is

:12:27.:12:30.

saying, don't bring them onto the streets. People are coming onto the

:12:31.:12:34.

streets. I don't see Mike giving much hope around what it is they

:12:35.:12:39.

want people to do. There is a difference between an entitlement to

:12:40.:12:42.

protest, which I would support, and whether you should be protesting,

:12:43.:12:47.

whatever the effect that protest will have. The figures were

:12:48.:12:52.

something like 55 million in damage. It was violence on the streets. The

:12:53.:12:58.

question that should be put is, does the PUP support these protests? I

:12:59.:13:02.

agree with what he said at the beginning, that it was whatever

:13:03.:13:06.

agree with what he said at the was, very political when it was put

:13:07.:13:10.

out. But the question is, what do you do with that now and is the PUP

:13:11.:13:15.

supporting the protests which are taking place? You are supporting the

:13:16.:13:21.

protests and you are supporting the protests that are planned for the

:13:22.:13:27.

30th. We are. Let me throw respect to Gerry, do we want to... Let's get

:13:28.:13:37.

real. We are where we are, this is 2013. Trying to throw it away to

:13:38.:13:41.

when the conflict was on does not solve the problem. A lot of people

:13:42.:13:45.

will be hoping politicians will find a way to make sure we don't have a

:13:46.:13:52.

repeat. Billy Hutchinson and Gerry Kelly, thank you. The battle over

:13:53.:13:55.

planning reform here could be about to escalate. The former

:13:56.:13:57.

planning reform here could be about Minister, Sammy Wilson, has told The

:13:58.:13:59.

View he believes the Planning Bill will return along with controversial

:14:00.:14:02.

amendments setting up economic planning zones and restricting

:14:03.:14:04.

possible legal challenges. Last month, the bill was withdrawn by the

:14:05.:14:07.

current SDLP Minister, Mark H Durkan, because of legal concerns.

:14:08.:14:10.

Campaigners are now warning that if the plans are brought back, they

:14:11.:14:14.

will oppose them again. Here's our Political Reporter, Stephen Walker.

:14:15.:14:29.

Planning has always been political. Here, the two largest power blocs,

:14:30.:14:40.

Sinn Fein and the EU P felt too much rested with the environment

:14:41.:14:46.

ministers. They wanted to set up special economic zones, and they

:14:47.:14:48.

wanted to change planning decisions could be

:14:49.:14:54.

challenged. SDLP saw that as a power grab, and rather than let the plans

:14:55.:14:58.

become law, they decided to withdraw the entire bill. This is where the

:14:59.:15:06.

root of much of this debate lies, Spruce field, nearly is burned.

:15:07.:15:11.

Campaigners for reform say the delays and challenging surrounding

:15:12.:15:15.

the John Lewis development shows that changes needed. To leave us

:15:16.:15:21.

without the reform and the planning system, and without a bill, the

:15:22.:15:29.

development industry, the construction industry, those

:15:30.:15:34.

involved were saying was needed, to me, is a wrong decision by the

:15:35.:15:37.

Minister and he should not be allowed to get away with this.

:15:38.:15:40.

Others suggest that the economic benefits of the planning Bill have

:15:41.:15:47.

been exaggerated. I think it is a myth that big business is behind the

:15:48.:15:54.

amendments. So you think that Sinn Fein and DUP have got that wrong? I

:15:55.:16:00.

think they are misreading the mood of the community and the business

:16:01.:16:04.

community. So when they say that business wants this, you say, show

:16:05.:16:09.

me the evidence? The businesses that I act for don't really want this.

:16:10.:16:15.

Doctor Liz Fawcett represents a series of residents groups and she

:16:16.:16:18.

insists the original plans would have reduced the rights of people.

:16:19.:16:24.

If we just allow all environmental considerations to be forgotten about

:16:25.:16:29.

and put to one side, and we become known in Northern Ireland for having

:16:30.:16:31.

a lax planning regime, which is known in Northern Ireland for having

:16:32.:16:36.

essentially what this legislation would mean, then the whole

:16:37.:16:40.

quality-of-life and quality of environment that we have will just

:16:41.:16:46.

go down the plughole. Now it seems there are efforts to rebuild the

:16:47.:16:49.

planning Bill and give it a new lease of life. It would make sense

:16:50.:16:56.

if Eileen Foster brought it forward to the assembly, come forward as a

:16:57.:17:00.

Private members Bill and there could be mechanisms used to get it

:17:01.:17:04.

introduced onto the floor of the house. The one thing I am fairly

:17:05.:17:10.

sure of is that we cannot allow a minister to ignore the will of the

:17:11.:17:13.

executive and ignore the will of the assembly, and ignore the needs of

:17:14.:17:19.

the economy. Opponents of the planning Bill say some of the

:17:20.:17:22.

original amendments are actually unlawful. They breach multiple

:17:23.:17:31.

elements of European law and the United Nations Convention, which is

:17:32.:17:35.

incorporated into the European law. The European Convention of human

:17:36.:17:39.

rights as well, and as I direct consequence of that, the amendments

:17:40.:17:45.

are beyond the legislative competence of the Northern Irish

:17:46.:17:49.

assembly. If similar amendments are presented again, many say they will

:17:50.:17:57.

continue the opposition. If you say individuals, civic societies are not

:17:58.:18:01.

allowed to take up any legal challenge against a government

:18:02.:18:04.

decision, that, to me, is anti-democratic. That is not about

:18:05.:18:09.

democracy, and to me, that is enough for me to oppose it. There was

:18:10.:18:15.

contrary legal advice on the bill. Some insisted it was unlawful,

:18:16.:18:19.

others like the attorney general, John Larkin, said such concerns were

:18:20.:18:23.

a logical. Some argue that the courts should have had the final

:18:24.:18:30.

say. -- illogical. The best way to do is accept the will of the

:18:31.:18:32.

assembly, take the legislation through and then let it be

:18:33.:18:35.

challenged in court. It wasn't legal, the courts would have made a

:18:36.:18:38.

decision and that part of the bill could have been struck out. So what

:18:39.:18:44.

would happen if the and macro -- Sinn Fein brought the original

:18:45.:18:50.

planning amendments back? -- DUP and Sinn Fein. I would say hands off. We

:18:51.:18:58.

have considerable ability and energy in terms of the Minister to deal

:18:59.:19:01.

with the planning issues effectively and efficiently, and what they have

:19:02.:19:08.

proposed in the past is illegal and wrong and they should desist from

:19:09.:19:10.

this, because it is politically unwise, and legally questionable.

:19:11.:19:19.

Much of this rests on legal interpretation. If it all comes back

:19:20.:19:22.

to store Montt, get ready for round two. -- Stormont. When politicians

:19:23.:19:29.

and lawyers will do battle once again.

:19:30.:19:31.

Here's a moral question for you. When does a political conviction

:19:32.:19:38.

become a prejudice? And is there a difference between a deeply held

:19:39.:19:41.

belief and a blinkered ideology? Many of our MLAs have very strong

:19:42.:19:44.

feelings about important issues across the board, so should we

:19:45.:19:47.

embrace our opinionated political class?

:19:48.:20:00.

# My Way - Sid Vicious. The natural order, whether one believes in God

:20:01.:20:10.

or evolution, the natural order is for a man and a woman to have a

:20:11.:20:15.

child, so that has made my views on adoption very, very clear, and on

:20:16.:20:20.

raising children, very, very clear, it should be a man and a woman. I

:20:21.:20:26.

look forward to the day that the assembly decides to end academic

:20:27.:20:29.

selection for good. Until that day I will strive to make it irrelevant,

:20:30.:20:34.

and highlight the damage it does. And maybe, just maybe, sometime in

:20:35.:20:38.

the future people's opposition might reduce. That is why I am not

:20:39.:20:44.

scrapping the National Parks Bill, but I am shelving it. In my opinion,

:20:45.:20:51.

fracking imposes... It is my opinion.

:20:52.:20:58.

Joining me now are two people with strong views on the rights and

:20:59.:21:03.

wrongs of political convictions - the Green Party's Steven Agnew and

:21:04.:21:06.

the former Alliance MLA, Seamus Close. Steven Agnew, Edwin Poots has

:21:07.:21:11.

been the focus of a lot of attention recently, justifiably so? I think

:21:12.:21:19.

so. The thing I have questioned Edwin Poots on is that he has his

:21:20.:21:23.

personal values and he has been very clear in articulating them, but I

:21:24.:21:28.

have asked for the evidence, for example with denying unmarried

:21:29.:21:32.

couples or those in civil partnerships from adopting, where is

:21:33.:21:37.

the evidence it would cause harm to children? He is yet to present --

:21:38.:21:41.

present any evidence. He has presented his values, but I think we

:21:42.:21:48.

need evidence. The American psychological Association reviewed

:21:49.:21:49.

over 500 cases and said there is no psychological Association reviewed

:21:50.:21:53.

evidence to suggest that same-sex couples raising children caused the

:21:54.:22:00.

children any harm. Seamus Close, is it acceptable to introduce

:22:01.:22:03.

legislation on personal values and convictions? If you don't have

:22:04.:22:07.

conviction, what have you got? Do you form it on lack of conviction in

:22:08.:22:11.

question at all politicians have conviction which brings them into

:22:12.:22:15.

the political reader. They want to get their views and politics across.

:22:16.:22:19.

The real question is, what is forming the opinion? What forms the

:22:20.:22:24.

opinion and conviction question mark is it religious beliefs, personal

:22:25.:22:27.

conscience, or moral values? If you answer yes to any of those,

:22:28.:22:32.

conscience, morality, are you supposed to set those aside? Because

:22:33.:22:38.

you are a legislator or a politician? Does there have to be a

:22:39.:22:42.

conflict between that and an evidential approach, or party

:22:43.:22:44.

approach question mark party policy is where you find yourself

:22:45.:22:48.

struggling in terms of personal conviction. If I could not accept

:22:49.:23:00.

party policy, do I bend over and accepted willy-nilly? Even though in

:23:01.:23:03.

my heart it was not correct? Therefore I took the stand and left.

:23:04.:23:10.

What is wrong with that? There are certain beliefs that one holds and

:23:11.:23:14.

holds them dear. You cannot be blamed for holding those particular

:23:15.:23:20.

beliefs. Here is the difference, you were not a minister at the time, but

:23:21.:23:23.

Edwin Poots and others are ministers. I am right in saying you

:23:24.:23:30.

are not serving MLA, you were retired, so you were a party member.

:23:31.:23:35.

It was less of an issue for you than it is for those standing

:23:36.:23:39.

It was less of an issue for you than dispatch box. You are partially

:23:40.:23:41.

right. Part of the reason I was not fighting the election was because of

:23:42.:23:46.

my deeply held view on a particularly -- particular issue,

:23:47.:23:47.

along with other things that happened in the past, but that led

:23:48.:23:51.

me to take a personal decision that I was no longer going to fight an

:23:52.:23:54.

election for a particular political party. There has to be a difference

:23:55.:24:01.

between beliefs and policy. Me, is. I am vegetarian, but it is not Green

:24:02.:24:07.

party policy that everyone should be. That is not a policy. If the

:24:08.:24:17.

Green party developed a policy that you had to eat meat, could you not

:24:18.:24:22.

remain in the party? I don't think that is a policy, to say you cannot

:24:23.:24:27.

eat meat. Entirely hypothetical, I understand. But it could be

:24:28.:24:32.

problematic. I take your point, but that is where right place the

:24:33.:24:36.

difference between politics and personal values. That is where a

:24:37.:24:42.

political party should be leaving room for conscience issues. I think

:24:43.:24:47.

most political parties do leave that room for conscience issues. This is

:24:48.:24:51.

about policy-making. When a minister stands up its not about private

:24:52.:24:55.

conscience, it is about directing policy. It affects everybody in the

:24:56.:25:00.

country. A minister is standing up and talking about an issue on which

:25:01.:25:04.

he is trying to get legislation. Therefore, is he wrong to try to

:25:05.:25:10.

persuade people, if it's based on an informed conscience and a principled

:25:11.:25:14.

stand? He may have to change because public opinion is against him. There

:25:15.:25:20.

is a different stream conscience and what becomes active and irrational

:25:21.:25:26.

discrimination. Me not eating meat, that harms no one, but the

:25:27.:25:31.

Minister's personal convention might discriminate against another sex or

:25:32.:25:34.

part of the community. In that sense, harm is being done and you

:25:35.:25:39.

cannot justify that in value will stop you need evidence to

:25:40.:25:42.

discriminate in a rational basis -- that in values. Fascinating stuff.

:25:43.:25:47.

We may continue this later tonight. We have to leave it there. Seamus

:25:48.:25:52.

Close and Steven Agnew, thank you. Listening to all that this evening

:25:53.:25:55.

and ready to give us their thoughts, our commentators, joining me again

:25:56.:25:58.

are Alex Kane and Paul McFadden. Let's talk about the discussion

:25:59.:26:06.

about the Cardiff talks. DUP Not there tonight. Significant, not

:26:07.:26:12.

significant? Did you get a sense? Billy Hutchinson, the explanation he

:26:13.:26:16.

gave, for the nonattendance at the talks, it does sound pretty strange

:26:17.:26:21.

that they could not send someone along, even Billy himself. He made

:26:22.:26:25.

the point that they are meant to be in the process and somebody should

:26:26.:26:29.

have been there to represent them. I have kind of very low expectations

:26:30.:26:38.

of the process. And I think perhaps it was overly optimistic. It is nice

:26:39.:26:48.

to know there is not a continuity PUP. You have the Cardiff talks, the

:26:49.:26:52.

Unionist forum, and you saw the body language, in three or four minutes

:26:53.:26:55.

they were back to the dreary staples, back to the early days of

:26:56.:26:59.

the conflict. Billy Hutchinson saying he would support this. The

:27:00.:27:03.

young people he is saying might be damaged in prison, he said he would

:27:04.:27:05.

support them. That damaged in prison, he said he would

:27:06.:27:09.

says it is the fault of the police. When he is pushed on that, his

:27:10.:27:14.

analysis is that they were involved in peaceful protests, but there is a

:27:15.:27:18.

differential in the policing of Loyalist demonstrations and

:27:19.:27:24.

Republican demonstrations. We heard Gerry Kelly say something similar.

:27:25.:27:28.

Both sides will constantly complain, and no matter how it works out, the

:27:29.:27:32.

police get it in the neck. Do you think there is a different way the

:27:33.:27:36.

policing is handled in the community? It's hard to say. I

:27:37.:27:44.

suspect that this is about pitching on a different stage for the DUP to

:27:45.:27:49.

build up supporting Loyalist communities. And the fact that they

:27:50.:27:56.

have been critical about Unionist politicians with them not raising

:27:57.:27:59.

have been critical about Unionist issues in Loyalist communities.

:28:00.:28:06.

Conviction politics, a quick word. When this personal conviction become

:28:07.:28:16.

prejudice? Henry Kissinger said that personal conviction never withstands

:28:17.:28:19.

first contact with a downturn in the polls. In Northern Ireland we have

:28:20.:28:23.

individual ministries driving things with their own ideological

:28:24.:28:25.

conviction because the system works that way is. If people come out and

:28:26.:28:34.

say what they think, they may vote for him, but what scares me is if

:28:35.:28:39.

they think what they say. Let's have a word about the political week. We

:28:40.:28:45.

saw the passing of the veteran SDLP MP, Eddie McGrady. What was your

:28:46.:28:54.

perspective on him? He was first elected the year Art. I was born in

:28:55.:28:58.

1961, but the fact that nobody has a bird work -- bad word to say after

:28:59.:29:01.

50 years in politics, that speaks volumes. I met him when I was

:29:02.:29:08.

working with Enoch Powell in Southdown, and he believed in

:29:09.:29:10.

power-sharing and reaching out long before it was necessarily needed or

:29:11.:29:15.

fashionable. That was the guy he was. Interesting to see the broad

:29:16.:29:19.

range of opinion represented at his funeral today. That is an

:29:20.:29:28.

encouraging sign, but if you know the man, what else would you expect?

:29:29.:29:33.

Let's talk about another man who was hugely popular who passed away this

:29:34.:29:36.

week. This is a tweet from David Cameron. @DavidCameron - John Cole

:29:37.:29:40.

was a titan of the BBC, and a great political reporter. Belfast's very

:29:41.:29:47.

own John Cole. He really defined the job. I got to interview the man in

:29:48.:29:58.

Port Stewart, another gentleman. A clever and classy political

:29:59.:30:03.

journalist. Hugely entertaining, ferociously well-informed. And

:30:04.:30:05.

people like him. The audience liked him, which is why they listen. They

:30:06.:30:09.

did not hear the accident, they heard him speak. One final one to

:30:10.:30:15.

strike a different note. @trishdevlin - Russell Brand at

:30:16.:30:17.

Twaddell Protest Camp. U couldn't make it up if you tried! He appeared

:30:18.:30:25.

last night, Paul. The most exciting thing to happen since read Hannah

:30:26.:30:28.

took her shirt off in the field somewhere. Could be a big one for

:30:29.:30:34.

the tourist board. I think he just misheard the Belfast accent and he

:30:35.:30:38.

thought it was a brand parade. Thank you both. That's almost it for

:30:39.:30:42.

tonight, but before we go, time for our insider's look at what's been

:30:43.:30:44.

happening up at Stormont. The MLAs do not take kindly to the

:30:45.:30:59.

early mornings and warnings even though they used to give him them

:31:00.:31:04.

out. But Mike Penning said we could lose 5 million a month if we don't

:31:05.:31:07.

sign up for welfare reform. Northern Ireland needs the money. With ?5

:31:08.:31:11.

million you could get Van Morrison's band to play for a night.

:31:12.:31:14.

Make a donation to the Lyric Theatre, then have pay some man to

:31:15.:31:20.

burn a tricolour. But the tax is ridiculous. A spare room is

:31:21.:31:27.

absolutely essential if you've been married as long as May. Well done

:31:28.:31:34.

Londonderry for providing a year of culture. A night at the Opera, a

:31:35.:31:37.

year in the industrial tribunal and a row in the papers every day. There

:31:38.:31:42.

goes Edwin Poots. Ollie, Edwin Xtra mesh might see you next time they

:31:43.:31:46.

ask you about relationships. Heterosexual, or, God forbid, gay.

:31:47.:31:51.

Say nothing! Resist the urge, big lad! That's it from The View for

:31:52.:31:57.

this week. Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.35 here on BBC One.

:31:58.:32:00.

For now, though, bye-bye.

:32:01.:32:03.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS