06/02/2014 The View


06/02/2014

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for Casement - has the GAA done enough for residents living in the

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shadow of its planned new stadium? Perhaps there are things we could

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have done better. We ask the Sports Minister, Caral Ni

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Chuilin, for her view on the way forward.

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Also on the programme: Ross Kemp's Extreme World documentary showed the

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worst of last year's long hot summer - so what sort of impact do images

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like these have outside Northern Ireland?

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And here to share their thoughts on all of that and more are our

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commentators, Professors Deirdre Heenan and Rick Wilford.

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And you can, of course, let us know what you think on Twitter.

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A leading GAA official has told The View the organisation could have

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done more to engage with residents opposed to the building of its new

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?75 million stadium in West Belfast. Although it's already received

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planning permission, residents are considering legal action which could

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threaten the project - as Gareth Gordon has been finding out.

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The sounds of summer will be no more in this Casement Park. Empty now

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except for the work men stripping everything worth saving. But soon

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Casement Park will be reborn. ?75 million worth of brand-new stadium.

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They, modern stop I good thing surely. It depends on who you ask?

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It is an imaginable what this will look like. This man will live in the

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shadow of the new stadium when it is built. The politicians are in

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agreement that this is the right thing to do. We have been sacrificed

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for the greater good, so to speak. You will be a way of the phrase, not

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in my backyard this is assuming rights issue.

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This is a justice issue. We need to have our rights upheld. Casement

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Park is surrounded on three sides by housing. It is OK in its current low

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rise estate, but perhaps not so when it re-emerges as a towering 38,000

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seat stadium. You do not care at all. We have not been told that this

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is happening stop this person has invited the planning minister to

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visit her home. We are not a statistic. This is our life. As yet

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we have had no answer. We are so angry about all that.

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Concerns here centre on this gateway at the rear of the ground. As far as

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I know they plan to extend this gateway. Initially when we went to

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the consultation meetings we were told that the exit would only be

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used for emergency evacuation and that has not turned out to be the

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case. There will be people exiting here. Also because there is a waste

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compound within the corner people will be driving waste disposal

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lorries to take away skips off whatever. There will be maintenance

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vehicles. And if concerts go ahead we will be told that the lorries

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that will be coming to set up will be using this as access. At night

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there are ten or 12 cars parked. It is a narrow street. There are young

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children. We just feel that our health and safety will be

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compromise. Mark Durkin says he understands the

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fears. So do his party representatives. We stand with the

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citizens. We want to take this issue forward. There are issues that are

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still outstanding. The people who have the greatest responsibility are

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the GAA. It is beer project. Bat-macro it is their project we put

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that to the GAA official. There are things you could always do

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better. We could have done better in terms of engagement with the

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residents. But the GAA have been transparent and open. We have not

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$300. We have had a three-week consultation process. We went above

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and beyond what we had to do because it was the right thing to do. It is

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a matter of deep regret that we have members of the GAA live locally who

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are opposed to this. I can assure them that GAA will do its best to

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alleviate their concerns. What would you have done

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differently? We would have spread the net wider. We would have ensured

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there were updates directly from the GAA. That makes other alleviate that

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some of the misinformation. Not only are they admitting they got some

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things wrong, I understand the GAA is currently rethinking its in tyre

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strategy where it might offer to buy some of their residence houses. --

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rethinking its entire strategy. I do not think we could continue

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living here. Earlier I spoke to Caral Ni Chuilin.

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I asked F the GAA could have done a better job. -- I asked her if the

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GAA could have done a better job. Maybe in hindsight he could have

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done things differently. I am more than happy with the consultation the

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GAA dead. We need to build from here on in on what we could do better. As

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long as the concerns are reasonable we need to try and meet some of

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those concerns stop. It is always good to hold your hands

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up if you can't do things differently. How can we make sure

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that people will get round the table to get issues resolved? I am glad

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that there is an attempt to meet and discuss the concerns. What more

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light can you shed on that meeting that? Clearly the residents are not

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happy. And meeting has been brokered. When will it happen? I

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think the meeting will happen soon. I think it will be open enough that

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people will talk about the concerns they have. Should the development

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continue at this stage? Should the pause button be pressed? I have not

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heard the residents say that they do not want the GAA facility not to be

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in West Belfast. I have a Government commitment that I am determined to

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meet. At the moment we have an eyesore. Now this respect to the

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GAA. It needs an upgrade. We are investing a lot of money into an

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area that has not seen investment. We are in providing employment.

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There is loads of things that we can do. I am not seeing if this does not

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happen it is the fault of the resident. Is it possible that this

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will not happen? It will happen. I still have to go ahead with the

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stadium. Are you saying there is no point in the residents consulting

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gives you will spend the money anyway? Is there a serious

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conversation going to be had between yourselves and the GAA to change the

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plans as they are currently drawn up in terms of this deal of the

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building and in terms of the numbers involved? Planning permission was

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granted in December. I think the GAA and the residents will get round the

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table to discuss a resolution. I do not think we will steal this down

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stop. Have you spoken to your colleague about this? Mark and I

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were at Casement Park the day the planning permission was announced.

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The residents are very angry. That is for everyone to see. The minister

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has put down conditions, that is being looked at by the design team.

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There are still opportunities, where people are reasonable, and people

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are asking for things to be done in a reasonable way to get resolution.

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The residents spoke about concerns on axis, health and, loss of light

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in their homes, it is the scale of the project that worries them. The

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GAA said there might only be half a dozen occasions in the year where

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the stadium is full, so why is a stadium with the capacity of 38,000

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seats being built when Ravenhill and Windsor Park are being developed

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with the capacity of 18,000 each? Ravenhill, because of the nature of

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the league, more games are probably played there, so with the solidity

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is being divided, the capacity has increased. There is a field of

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dreams aspect, build it and they will come. Is this a good way to

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spend public money? Surely there must be a robust business case.

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There must be a justification for 38,000 seat. There is a robust

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case. This was agreed before I came into my post. There will be at least

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five championship games per year. The locals are concerned that maybe

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this business case which they have not been allowed to see at this

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stage, involves a lot of concerts, with a bigger capacity that would

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have a great bearing on the quality of their lives in and around the

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development. That is what they think as part of the plan, but they

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haven't been formally told that. I am investing as the Minister for

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sport and sports facilities, the sports facilities and the governing

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bodies need to make sure they have a good return for public money. I am

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developing a stadium for sport, not for comments. It has been made clear

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that this is primarily for the playing of GAA sports, but he would

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not rule out the possibility that there might be concerts. Do you

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think there could be significant numbers of concerts there are? I'm

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not convinced at this stage it would be significant numbers of concerts,

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but whatever happens, it is primarily for sporting activities,

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it will not be more than 38,000. Your party is in a predicament, it

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holds five out of six of the Stormont seat, it has a Westminster

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seat, there is an argument that Sinn Fein has failed its constituents in

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the way that this project has been handled, because a lot of them are

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unhappy about the development and its current format, and they feel

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let down. And I regret that, but I have heard from other constituents

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in west Belfast to going to the banks and credit unions to get a

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loan to send their family to America and Australia. It is a balancing

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act, they do not want that to happen any more, they want employment

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opportunities for their family in that area, in their area, and that

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is right they are entitled to. Do you think this will be resolved in

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the near future and it can develop with everyone's backing, because at

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the moment, there could be a judicial review sought by the by the

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residents, that would hold it up, would you be concerned about that?

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It could, and I would be concerned, and it is important that we get this

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resolved in a reasonable and practical way and move ahead as best

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as possible. So you are confident that things could start in the

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spring as planned? Yes, it could be done early in spring. The Sports

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Minister, Caral Ni Chuilin, speaking to me earlier. Now, rioting,

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protests and violence on our streets. Unfortunately we're used to

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seeing it on our TV screens here, but this week those pictures

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travelled much further afield. The actor turned journalist Ross Kemp

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visited Northern Ireland last July at the height of the parades season,

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and his Extreme World programme was broadcast on Tuesday night. But what

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sort of message did it send out? And have we the right to complain if it

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simply highlighted the problems that continue to spill onto our streets?

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I'm joined in the studio by the East Belfast MP, Naomi Long, and from

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London by the Independent's Travel Editor, Simon Calder, who spends a

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lot of time here. Welcome to the programme, Simon,

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firstly, what did you make of this programme? I really enjoyed it as a

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piece of television, Ross Kemp is very likeable, I enjoyed his

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commentary on it, but I felt that I was watching something from maybe 20

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years ago, and what worries me is that, while people who are regular

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visitors, and I'm lucky enough to be one, they will think, gosh they must

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have worked very hard to get quite so much grim looking footage. I'm

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concerned that perhaps people in Britain will be looking at those and

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thinking, Ho, they are still at it, good this week, and just some of the

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lines in the commentary were very misleading. He says there is

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evidence everywhere of the continuing conflict, about how much

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worse things are getting, but there is not. I go to holidays on Northern

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Ireland, and if there was evidence of continuing conflict, then I

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wouldn't go on holidays there. Not a fairer reflection of life here,

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you're saying? Well, you need to look at the title, it is containing

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the word extreme in the title, he came to Northern Ireland and found

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extremist quite successfully. I do not think anyone that knows Northern

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Ireland will pay much attention to it. It was full of some mysteries, I

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felt, it was never explained, for example, that the taxi driver who

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was driving into the piece was and explaining the years of conflict was

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somebody who does taxi Tours. -- driving him to the peace wall.

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Another thing which I was watching, I wonder if the police service work,

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he did not have a seat belt on the back of the taxi! Leaving aside the

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health and the issues, do you think it was damaging to Northern Ireland?

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If you were watching that across the water and you did not know this

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place, what would you make of it? I think it was damaging in terms of

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the perception for people that do not know Northern Ireland, the

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question is, is it reflected of Northern Ireland of today, and no,

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it is not. It did reflect that it was like last summer in those places

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where he was, and if you hold up a mirror and you do not like what you

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see, it is not the fault of the mirror. We provide that footage for

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people to see. These were real events, he did not make it up. No,

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he did not invent it, it was sensational, what happened last

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summer was quite serious. It was striking, his sense of shock, that

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these things were happening in Northern Ireland and they did not

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make national news. It was particularly striking when the bomb

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squad came to disarm the device. He said of this was happening in any

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city in Great Britain, this would be national news, but here, it is just

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another day. That betrays the sense of frustration that I have had for a

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long time, that there is a sense of violence that is acceptable in

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Northern Ireland, that we work around it and we put up with that,

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but it should not be acceptable, and it is only when you see the shock

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from someone like Ross Kemp who is useful to extreme things, that we

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see how much work still needs to be done to fix this. Whether this may

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be a small group and whether or not they are representative of broader

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society, seven months on, the stand-off continues, and those

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people have not gone away. Absolutely, and what is more

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worrying, even though it is a small and I would argue, on representative

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group of people in the programme, they are to some degree dictating

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the pace of political change in Northern Ireland. It seems they are

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the people that directs, particularly in unionism, how

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quickly we can move, how much agreement and progress can be made.

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The group does not need to be hugely representative to have a

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disproportionate impact, I do think the visuals in the programme and the

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impact it will have on people that are not familiar with the situation

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will also have a disproportionate impact. I can only look at this from

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someone that has travelled abroad myself, and I remember being in

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Bolivia in South America and was trouble in the city where we were

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meant to go to, and I was born in bread in trouble here as a young

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person, and I did not go to that city, because I did not know what to

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expect. But we have to do with the issues rather than castigate the

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programme makers. What Ross Kemp was portraying on the programme flies in

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the face of the work done by the tourism board to promote Northern

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Ireland. What Naomi Long is saying, would it dissuade people from

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actually coming here? They're well, I'm afraid, be a certain proportion

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of the population who might be thinking, Northern Ireland, yes, not

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heard much from their recently, and why don't we give it a go? Something

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I am very aware of is that compared with pretty much every other region

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in Europe, Northern Ireland gets far less tourism than it should do,

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given the enormous range of attractions, everything from Titanic

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Belfast to the County Antrim coast, marvellous things to do, and far few

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people going to see it. And of course, people are gradually

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realising, there is a lot going on, and there we were talking about

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Bolivia, whether our lots of places in Bolivia that you would happily go

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to, and in the tourism mainstream in Northern Ireland, and I'm lucky

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enough to go on holiday frequency in Northern Ireland, you simply do not

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see any signs of sectarianism policy particularly want to go to the Falls

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Road on the Shankill Road which is a very interesting political

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education. It does concern me. There are things in the programme, it was

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trying to up the tension by blurring out pretty much everything, even the

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rental car that he was driving around in had the number plate

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blurred out. There were lines were I thought, what is all this about? He

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was talking about Derry/ Londonderry, walking around here,

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you could be in the South of France and I thought, crikey, that is not

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the County Derry I remember! Do you think he was stretching it? ! Yes,

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but a good, entertaining programme, and that is the worrying thing. It

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would be good if Northern Ireland can confront those things and say,

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yes, these things did happen, and yes, it was made all the more

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exciting for the viewers of sky one, but we cannot escape the fact that

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these events took place, even though there wasn't a tourist for five

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miles. And I hope that perhaps is things can improve as a result of

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it. Finally, Simon, subtitles necessary or not? Oh, no, I thought,

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what am I watching here, this is not Bolivia expect then I realised it

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was Belfast. Politics in Northern Ireland, they look impenetrable to a

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lot of people from outside, did this simply prompt a lot of people to

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shrug their shoulders and say, pagan on all their houses, I do not have

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the first notion of what is happening politically in Northern

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Ireland and I do not care, I do not want to try to work it out? That

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might be true for MPs in Westminster and a lot of people in Northern

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Ireland to feel the same way watching those programmes. The

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resistance of despair of history repeating itself and people are wary

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of that. It is also true with Simon says, there are many, many positive

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things of Northern Ireland, we want to grow tourism and sent Belfast as

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it best. We do not want one programme to cover all of that. If

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you want to do that to its full potential, we have to deal with

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underlying issues and instability is because they are a drag on society

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and they stop us moving forward and create economic uncertainty and

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political uncertainty. When you are offended by the subtitles? I was not

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offended, but I did not think they were really needed, but I think

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sometimes people get over sensitive. I was fine with it, but then, I am

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from Belfast! Thank you. Letters hear what our commentators make of

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the discussions tonight. They are quiet springs, as ever! Good evening

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to you both. Let's talk about casement park, firstly. Is it

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awkward for the GAA and the Minister that the local residents are

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unhappy? It is awkward to have a row in their own backyard, but it is

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understandable that people are sensitive about something being

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built in the vicinity of their own homes and creating uncertainty, but

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it is unfortunate that many people have written tirelessly on this

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project and have seen through a vision and a blueprint and have

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taken it through Northern Ireland bureaucracy, which is quite an

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achievement in itself, and then to he had been torpedoed by a group of

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residents... They should be listened to, but it is important that the GAA

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would be flexible and buy up some of those homes, but it would be a shame

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if the project did not go ahead when we have gotten this far. What about

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the politics of it, it was an SDLP person that gave the planning

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permission and it was a Sinn Fein minister on the programme tonight

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drawing criticism from residents, it is quite an interesting situation?

:26:48.:26:55.

It is a family squabble within a wider political family. Whether it

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will play out electorally I doubt. The immediate impact is on very few

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residents. It is unfortunate. It is going to be a jewel in the crown for

:27:21.:27:30.

GAA. That may come unstuck because there will be a legal challenge. Let

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us move on to the Ross Kemp documentary. Was it an unfair

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representation? The clue was in the title. He came here to be

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sensationalist. This was not staged. This is happening. It is damaging.

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But it is compelling to see that this is how we argued in other

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regions of the UK. The fact that we had to have subtitles as an

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indicator of how Northern Ireland is viewed in other parts of the UK. Of

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course there was no context and there was no subtleties. This does

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not reflect life in Northern Ireland. It will not be used by the

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tourist board in Northern Ireland. It was interesting when he smiled at

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the end and said it cost ?25 million to police the riots, as if we have

:28:39.:28:53.

not got that ourselves. Simon Calder was right. It will detail some

:28:54.:29:00.

people from coming over. But it will be short term. But can the 12th

:29:01.:29:10.

again this year we are likely to see similar events. It is a chronic

:29:11.:29:16.

issue. What needs to be addressed are the underlying causes. It does

:29:17.:29:21.

not do as any good. It was tabloid television. That is what it was

:29:22.:29:32.

meant to be. People will have a passing interest. It only had 2000

:29:33.:29:42.

hits on YouTube. It has not gone viral. Nobody likes to have their

:29:43.:29:57.

dirty linen in public. There were some interesting comments on social

:29:58.:29:58.

media. stretching credibility. That was a

:29:59.:30:24.

positive spin on things. grip would feel. Maybe that is what

:30:25.:30:54.

we need. Banging heads together. Diplomatic banging of heads

:30:55.:31:02.

together. The British Government and the Irish Government should be more

:31:03.:31:11.

hands-on. It is time for that. If our own political leaders are not

:31:12.:31:20.

providing leadership. The Battle of Wills between the

:31:21.:31:29.

education Minister and the TUV reader. That was intriguing? It

:31:30.:31:39.

touches on issues of protocol. What Jim Allister don't was he went and.

:31:40.:32:03.

That was how they used to act. The ombudsman found in favour, saying

:32:04.:32:10.

the response should have been more direct and more prompt. It is

:32:11.:32:23.

indicative of the antipathy. It seems very childish. Is this

:32:24.:32:33.

really a we to behave when you are an elected representative? Jim

:32:34.:32:41.

Allister will not change the way things are done. And John O'Dowd

:32:42.:32:47.

says there is no apology. Interesting nonetheless. Thank you.

:32:48.:32:53.

That is all for now. That's it from The View for this week. I'll be back

:32:54.:32:57.

with live coverage of Gerry Adams' speech to the Sinn Fein Ard Fheis on

:32:58.:33:01.

Saturday night at eight o'clock on BBC Two - and Sunday Politics is at

:33:02.:33:05.

11.35 here on BBC One. For now, though, bye bye.

:33:06.:33:45.

be apologising. He refuses to engage with me I letter. It should have

:33:46.:33:53.

been dealt with in a more mature fashion.

:33:54.:33:59.

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