28/01/2016 The View


28/01/2016

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a new constituency for May's election,

:00:00.:00:00.

but the long-running problems with welfare reform

:00:07.:00:08.

Tonight on The View, we'll hear from Martin McGuinness

:00:09.:00:12.

so who is holding up the legacy issue?

:00:13.:00:43.

Martin McGuiness says he has no doubt about who is causing the

:00:44.:00:49.

delay. For the meeting I was involved in with Theresa Villiers it

:00:50.:00:52.

was clear to me that the British Government were not keen to resolve

:00:53.:00:56.

the situation prior to the assembly elections.

:00:57.:00:58.

Plus, back off Brussels or all aboard the European gravy train?

:00:59.:01:00.

we hear from a TD who thinks the UK should stay in the EU,

:01:01.:01:05.

and an MLA who says the Republic should butt out.

:01:06.:01:07.

Also tonight - the word of the week was waffle.

:01:08.:01:09.

We will need executive support to do so. We call Jim Allister. That was

:01:10.:01:21.

act-macro pure waffle act-macro

:01:22.:01:29.

And in Commentators' Corner, Professor Deirdre Heenan,

:01:30.:01:31.

who's joined tonight by the Reverend Lesley Carroll.

:01:32.:01:33.

Once again this week, the political headlines have been

:01:34.:01:44.

From the allegations surrounding the Shankill bombing to the inquiry

:01:45.:01:48.

into inquests and, of course, the political deadlock over doing

:01:49.:01:50.

I've been speaking to the Deputy First Minister,

:01:51.:01:55.

Martin McGuinness, about his view on what's causing the current delay

:01:56.:01:58.

When we caught up this afternoon at his office

:01:59.:02:03.

in Stormont Castle, I began by asking him about recent comments

:02:04.:02:06.

on the Shankill bombing made by the Chief Constable,

:02:07.:02:08.

He said this week that he is "100% convinced that the police service

:02:09.:02:13.

"at the time had no knowledge of the 1993 attack that

:02:14.:02:15.

I can only take it at face value what the Chief Constable said. I

:02:16.:02:31.

think in all of these matters, there are going to have to be addressed in

:02:32.:02:36.

the context of finding a way forward on legacy and I think during the

:02:37.:02:41.

course of the talks in the latter part of last year we made huge

:02:42.:02:45.

progress in terms of the mechanisms and structures we intend to put in

:02:46.:02:49.

place. The big obstacle was the issue of disclosure and this term

:02:50.:02:55.

national security that Theresa Villiers was keen to deploy. I have

:02:56.:02:59.

met Theresa Villiers on a number of occasions since then and from the

:03:00.:03:06.

meetings I have had with plus the interviews she has given publicly,

:03:07.:03:09.

she has certainly given the impression that the British

:03:10.:03:13.

Government is up for resolving the concerns of the number of very

:03:14.:03:18.

important groups of citizens who believe that that term would be used

:03:19.:03:23.

to prevent the full truth coming out. I think we can plug out of the

:03:24.:03:29.

air almost 20 or 30 different scenarios. The only way to resolve

:03:30.:03:34.

it is to find a way forward on legacy, absent from that will be

:03:35.:03:39.

difficult. On that case, it has been reported that the Republican who

:03:40.:03:43.

ordered the Shankill bomb was a police informer, what is your

:03:44.:03:47.

response? I do not know who the person is so how can I respond? I

:03:48.:03:53.

have no information about who the individual is. What we have to do is

:03:54.:03:57.

recognise that when it comes to dealing with the past that there is

:03:58.:04:04.

a tendency for people to plug out of one situation and ignore others and

:04:05.:04:07.

I think it is very important that we look of all of this in the round and

:04:08.:04:12.

recognise that there are many concerns. I have no doubt that in

:04:13.:04:17.

the past elements with in the British establishment used to people

:04:18.:04:23.

within the community and indeed within organisations as agents. That

:04:24.:04:27.

is very clear on the public record. It is really about how we came get

:04:28.:04:33.

to the truth of what happened. The only possible mechanism for getting

:04:34.:04:39.

to the truth is the root agreed by the two governments and parties in

:04:40.:04:43.

relation to the mechanisms and structures. We need to find a way to

:04:44.:04:48.

put those mechanisms and structures in place and that will only happen

:04:49.:04:52.

in my view when we get our way forward and I listen carefully to

:04:53.:04:56.

what Theresa Villiers and others have been saying about whether or

:04:57.:05:00.

not they believe it can be done before the assembly elections, I

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would like it done before then but if not, the preparatory work needs

:05:03.:05:08.

to be done so we can hit the ground running after the assembly

:05:09.:05:12.

elections. Arlene Foster said the outstanding issues concerning

:05:13.:05:15.

legacy, those matters that were not agreed in the Fresh Start deal will

:05:16.:05:21.

have to wait until after the election, it do you accept that is

:05:22.:05:26.

the case? From the meeting I was involved in with Theresa Villiers it

:05:27.:05:28.

was clear that the British Government were not keen to resolve

:05:29.:05:33.

the situation prior to the assembly elections so I think probably Arlene

:05:34.:05:36.

Foster has taken her lead from the British Government. So that as it?

:05:37.:05:43.

Know. I made the point when I have a conversation with Theresa Villiers

:05:44.:05:48.

that if it was a matter of waiting until after the assembly elections

:05:49.:05:51.

the preparation needs to be done between now and then so that after

:05:52.:05:57.

the election, facing the public with the prospect that there will be more

:05:58.:06:02.

talks, this needs to be resolved immediately after the assembly

:06:03.:06:07.

elections. Do you except that that speculation about an informer and

:06:08.:06:11.

the Shankill bomb is exactly the kind of story that underlines and

:06:12.:06:14.

need for a credible mechanism for dealing with the past and that is an

:06:15.:06:18.

issue that politicians including yourself have up until now failed to

:06:19.:06:23.

grasp? I do not think we have failed to grasp anything. The big concern

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that we have in my party is that there are significant victims groups

:06:30.:06:33.

within the broad nationalist and republican community who believe

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that the British Government are attempting to prevent disclosure or

:06:38.:06:41.

are hiding behind national security. My position through the course of

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the talks was to ask our negotiators to engage with those groups. We gave

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a pledge to them that we would not sign up for anything but did not

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allay their concerns and fears. The trick now is to find a solution

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which they can live with and if they say to me that they can live with

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that, I will go with that. The DUP has said that the money that was set

:07:08.:07:11.

aside for the legacy bodies that should now be up and running but are

:07:12.:07:19.

not, should be released anyway. Is that sensible? I think what is

:07:20.:07:23.

sensible is what we have tried very hard to do is to do the preparation

:07:24.:07:28.

to get the solution that clearly Theresa Villiers has indicated that

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she thinks is out there. I think that money is much better used to

:07:33.:07:39.

ensure that the mechanisms and institutions that we intend to

:07:40.:07:42.

establish are properly funded. There is a big question as to whether or

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not the ?150 million over a period of five years will be enough. I

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think we need to be very cautious about how we deal with that money to

:07:53.:07:56.

ensure that when the time comes to establish these structures which

:07:57.:08:01.

will provide a menu of options for victims are properly funded. Let us

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talk about the assembly elections in May, you have taken the decision to

:08:07.:08:09.

move constituency from Mid Ulster to fight the next election in

:08:10.:08:27.

Foyle, your home city, who is Sinn Fein more afraid of in Londonderry,

:08:28.:08:29.

Colum Eastwood or People Before Profit? The political landscape on

:08:30.:08:32.

the Ireland of Ireland is changing. It is clear even at this stage that

:08:33.:08:35.

Sinn Fein will have a very good General Election in the south. Even

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our most ardent opponents are conceding that there will be a very

:08:40.:08:44.

substantial increase in our representation. In the north, I have

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been on record within the party as saying that I do believe that Sinn

:08:50.:08:53.

Fein can emerge as the largest political party in the north at some

:08:54.:09:00.

stage in the future. My move into Foyle is about increasing Sinn

:09:01.:09:03.

Fein's mandate and it is about delivery for the people of Foyle. I

:09:04.:09:08.

have a deep affection for the people in South Derry and they are now very

:09:09.:09:17.

lucky to have a very strong Sinn Fein organisation with an MP, three

:09:18.:09:22.

MLAs and 18 councillors, probably the strongest party in any of the

:09:23.:09:26.

councils anywhere in the North. The move into Derry is about certainly

:09:27.:09:35.

addressing a very clear perception that is out there are that more

:09:36.:09:38.

needs to be done and that is why we have the budget in relation to

:09:39.:09:43.

putting the money forward for the work this year of the construction

:09:44.:09:52.

of the A6 and could focus on McGee university which has to be a top

:09:53.:09:56.

priority for all of us. This is effectively Sinn Fein and the DUP

:09:57.:10:02.

versus everyone else. I have been on public record as saying that in the

:10:03.:10:07.

last assembly elections, it was Peter Robinson and myself against

:10:08.:10:11.

the rest. We were singing from the same hymn sheet in terms of how we

:10:12.:10:16.

move forward. Will this continue with Arlene Foster? Everyone knows

:10:17.:10:20.

and I am not going to pull a blind over the fact that there were two or

:10:21.:10:26.

three rocky years as a result of financial difficulties, mostly also

:10:27.:10:31.

on account of flag protest, riots and the situation at Ardoyne. I have

:10:32.:10:35.

been a colleague of Arlington for the last eight years and I think

:10:36.:10:41.

that she and I know what we have to do -- Arlene Foster. We have had

:10:42.:10:45.

conversations and we will put the negativity of the last few years

:10:46.:10:49.

into the dustbin and we want to move forward with a positive agenda. Lord

:10:50.:10:55.

MP has written to the parties suggesting a ban on election

:10:56.:10:58.

posters, would use support that? That would only work in the context

:10:59.:11:03.

of all political parties and candidates. If the others agree,

:11:04.:11:08.

would you agree? If all others agree, we would give serious

:11:09.:11:12.

consideration. What are the chances of that happening? Due only to be

:11:13.:11:19.

honest? I think the chances of that happening zero. The chances of other

:11:20.:11:25.

parties agreeing to are zero. Martin McGuiness does not need posters!

:11:26.:11:31.

Part of generating interest in an election is the television debates,

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it is about what is happening in the newspapers and local radio stations,

:11:37.:11:40.

but it is also about creating an atmosphere. Our position is clear,

:11:41.:11:44.

if all of the other parties and candidates were to agree that there

:11:45.:11:48.

should be no posters, we would give it serious consideration, but I

:11:49.:11:52.

think it is unlikely. We have had this discussion on a number of

:11:53.:11:56.

occasions, it has never come to pass. Do you think that your party's

:11:57.:12:03.

climb-down on welfare will play badly in May? I think people

:12:04.:12:07.

absolutely appreciate the huge difficulties that all political

:12:08.:12:12.

parties have to deal with in terms of the austerity agenda being

:12:13.:12:15.

pursued by the British Government. For us in the negotiation we were

:12:16.:12:21.

involved in with other parties, as in every other negotiation I have

:12:22.:12:25.

been involved in, goes back to the Good Friday Agreement, everyone has

:12:26.:12:29.

to recognise that compromises have to be made. I think from our

:12:30.:12:34.

perspective to be able to put in place a fond of half ?1 billion

:12:35.:12:41.

under the tutelage of Professor Eileen Evason and others is

:12:42.:12:44.

something that is not available anywhere else, it is not available

:12:45.:12:49.

in England or Wales or Scotland... You overpromised. He said that no

:12:50.:12:53.

benefit recipients present or future would lose out and that patency is

:12:54.:12:58.

not the case. I think that a very determined effort was made by Sinn

:12:59.:13:03.

Fein protect everyone, but we had to work out what the cost of protecting

:13:04.:13:08.

everyone would be at the undoubtedly there would be a cost to the

:13:09.:13:11.

departed of education, to our teachers and schools and hospitals,

:13:12.:13:15.

to our nurses and doctors and I think on the balance of things, we

:13:16.:13:21.

have done I think a decent job in trying to protect the most

:13:22.:13:25.

vulnerable in society. You have already suggested that if Sinn Fein

:13:26.:13:30.

comes back as the biggest party after the election in may you would

:13:31.:13:35.

designate as joint first ministers. Arlene Foster has said she is not

:13:36.:13:39.

interested in that because she is confident she will be returned as

:13:40.:13:41.

the leader of the biggest party and she will return as First Minister.

:13:42.:13:46.

Were you disappointed she was not a bit more open to the suggestion? I

:13:47.:13:50.

am never disappointed about things like that. I am not going to comment

:13:51.:13:59.

on what Arlene Foster shed. What I said was if Sinn Fein is returned as

:14:00.:14:03.

the largest party, the next time out, I am per paired to the DUP that

:14:04.:14:09.

we change the title from office to joint First Minister. The reality is

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is that power resides with both of us. We can get nothing done unless

:14:16.:14:20.

we agree. I have as much power and authority as Arlene Foster and she

:14:21.:14:23.

has as much power and authority as me, it only works if we can work

:14:24.:14:29.

together. This is a very important year for centenary commemoration is

:14:30.:14:33.

in Ireland, how do you think Republicans should mark the

:14:34.:14:39.

centenary of the Battle of the Somme? I think, in short, very

:14:40.:14:44.

respectfully. In a very dignified way. As I hope others will respect

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and be respectful and dignified about what is precious to us in

:14:53.:14:57.

terms of the 100 of anniversary of the Easter rising. I think we all

:14:58.:15:01.

throughout the island have a duty and responsibility to give

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leadership on these issues and I am presently examining what my

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contribution can be towards recognising those Irish men in the

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tens of thousands who lost their lives from all over Ireland in the

:15:15.:15:20.

First World War. Might that involve you attending some kind of

:15:21.:15:25.

commemoration on the site of the battle in July? Presently, I have

:15:26.:15:28.

asked my advisers to sit down and think about how we can do something

:15:29.:15:33.

in regard to acknowledging the sacrifices made by Irish men north

:15:34.:15:38.

and south. It was not a Great War, it was a great slaughter and

:15:39.:15:42.

whatever about the politics and the politics were terrible, what we are

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focused on is the human loss. Might that extend to you considering

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wearing a puppy at some stage this year?

:15:54.:15:59.

I don't think it is essential to wear at poppy to remember those who

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lost their lives. But you can imagine the impact on the Unionists?

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We can wonder how it would impact on everybody. I will be respectful and

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dignified about how I decide to commemorate those tragic people, who

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left this island in their tens of thousands I've never came home.

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Quick word about Brexit, that Enda Kenny is allowed to have his opinion

:16:30.:16:36.

about what happens to the UK, but should not seek to influence the

:16:37.:16:41.

outcome of the referendum. I agree with the Taoiseach that an exit from

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Europe would be very bad for the island of Ireland, economically,

:16:47.:16:49.

that it would be very bad for the agri- food counters -- the food

:16:50.:16:58.

industry in the north. I respect the position of the DUP, which seems to

:16:59.:17:02.

be very in between, some would like to exit tomorrow, to those who wish

:17:03.:17:06.

to see David Cameron coming back with some sort of agreement, which

:17:07.:17:11.

he can put positively to the people, for people to stay in. The danger of

:17:12.:17:17.

that is that the British government are possibly running the risk of

:17:18.:17:21.

sleep walking into an exit from Europe and from my perspective, I

:17:22.:17:25.

think that would be disastrous for Ireland. We will leave it there.

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Deputy First Minister, thank you. Thank you, Mark.

:17:30.:17:32.

Martin McGuinness taking us neatly into our next discussion -

:17:33.:17:35.

Should politicians from the Republic say it as they see it,

:17:36.:17:38.

or mind their own business on whether the UK

:17:39.:17:40.

The Taoiseach was accused by the DUP this week of interfering in internal

:17:41.:17:45.

matters, which the party says are solely the preserve

:17:46.:17:47.

The Fianna Fail TD, Brendan Smith, says that's a regrettable throwback

:17:48.:17:55.

and he joins me now from our Dublin studio.

:17:56.:17:58.

is the TUV leader and former MEP, Jim Allister.

:17:59.:18:02.

The DUP was invited to be part of the discussion, but declined.

:18:03.:18:07.

Welcome to you both. Jim Allister first of all, do you agree with

:18:08.:18:14.

Nigel Dodds that this is an internal UK matter and the Taoiseach should

:18:15.:18:20.

not interfere? Of course this is a United Kingdom matter, about the

:18:21.:18:22.

future of the United Kingdom, whether we are in or out of the EU,

:18:23.:18:27.

and the referendum is that the people of the United Kingdom and the

:18:28.:18:32.

decision lies with them and them alone. People in the Irish Republic,

:18:33.:18:39.

in France, other parts of Europe, and have an interest in what

:18:40.:18:41.

happens. When the Irish Republic voted on the Lisbon Treaty, I as an

:18:42.:18:46.

ovarian -- hires an observer was interested to see what David do. And

:18:47.:18:52.

when they had a second referendum, it was interested, when it did not

:18:53.:18:56.

suit Brussels. But they never thought it was any of my business to

:18:57.:19:00.

participate. Or to seek to influence that. So you are incomplete

:19:01.:19:11.

agreement with Nigel Dodds on this? Arlene Foster roared back from a

:19:12.:19:15.

somewhat at it is clear this is a matter for UK voters. But is it

:19:16.:19:20.

acceptable for someone like Brendan Smith, Ruby will speak to in a

:19:21.:19:25.

moment, remit as a Fianna Fail opposition spokesman includes the

:19:26.:19:29.

border region, is it right for him to have a few on the subject, as EU

:19:30.:19:37.

funding relates to Northern Ireland and the Republic? He is untitled two

:19:38.:19:41.

of you but not to imprint that on the voters of Northern Ireland. --

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he is entitled to the review. This is a wonderful opportunity after 40

:19:48.:19:51.

years of the shackles of Europe to liberate ourselves. And to grow our

:19:52.:19:57.

economy, we have the growth is, outside of the declining European

:19:58.:20:01.

Union, and to build trade with the rest of the world, we at the growth

:20:02.:20:07.

is. He is entitled to a few but not to vault or act as if he has one.

:20:08.:20:12.

How do you feel about that, Brendan Smith? You are entitled to view, an

:20:13.:20:18.

opinion, but you must not seek to influence the outcome of the

:20:19.:20:22.

referendum? I would disagree with Jim and it is important us in public

:20:23.:20:27.

life in the south, that we participate in the debate and I had

:20:28.:20:30.

played the facts and concerns we would have if Britain decided to

:20:31.:20:36.

leave the EU. We are concerned about the development relationships on

:20:37.:20:46.

this island, between north and south, there are huge synergies

:20:47.:20:48.

between economies not in sight. Other countries in Europe could have

:20:49.:20:53.

an opinion. But we are the only country with a land border with

:20:54.:20:57.

Britain, we are close ally in the European Union, I served as Minister

:20:58.:21:06.

of agriculture, attended many meetings, and we have a very good

:21:07.:21:10.

and close working relationship with Britain. We can differ with them

:21:11.:21:15.

strongly on some issues but on a huge range of issues we would be

:21:16.:21:21.

very close allies. But just to be clear, you began your comments

:21:22.:21:24.

saying you disagreed but Jim Allister, but do you think you have

:21:25.:21:29.

a right to try to influence the outcome of the referendum in the UK?

:21:30.:21:34.

We have a right to put forward a viewpoint and we would hope the

:21:35.:21:40.

electorate would take her views into account. So you want to influence

:21:41.:21:43.

the electorate in Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK? I did not

:21:44.:21:48.

say that. With respect, that seems to be what you are saying. What you

:21:49.:21:55.

want to state is, what you want to put clearly across is the huge

:21:56.:22:00.

important and positive leveraged debt is for both economies, for both

:22:01.:22:06.

north and south, by both of us being members of the European Union.

:22:07.:22:14.

Looking at agriculture, food and fisheries, we work with Northern

:22:15.:22:19.

Ireland to increase the cause of this, be it north side, and working

:22:20.:22:25.

together on that respect. On a daily basis, there's huge trade and

:22:26.:22:29.

commerce and business between north and south, we do not want barriers

:22:30.:22:37.

put up between trade on this island. Very quickly, before I come back to

:22:38.:22:42.

Jim Allister, to clarify, RUC Endura view is it would be better for the

:22:43.:22:48.

UK to remain in the EU, but it is up to voters to decide for themselves,

:22:49.:22:56.

or are you saying directly to people in Northern Ireland who will have a

:22:57.:23:01.

vote in the referendum that this should stay within the EU?

:23:02.:23:09.

Sovereignty of the sides with the people in a written constitution, we

:23:10.:23:14.

respect the sovereignty of any other country to make its decision, that

:23:15.:23:20.

does not stop as participating in the debate and outlining what we see

:23:21.:23:24.

are the issues, the positives and negatives. Is that fair enough? It

:23:25.:23:30.

excludes them from campaigning and it sounds like Enda Kenny was

:23:31.:23:34.

seeking to be part of this campaign, and I think Mr Smith would like to

:23:35.:23:39.

campaign on this issue in favour of staying and shackling us to the EU.

:23:40.:23:45.

There are so much scare stories that would entry within the British

:23:46.:23:49.

Isles. Of course it would not. We traded with the rest of Ireland long

:23:50.:23:53.

before we were in the EU and will continue to do so. It might make

:23:54.:23:59.

that more difficult. Northern Ireland exports 60% of its exports

:24:00.:24:03.

to the rest of the United Kingdom, exports 10% to the Republic of

:24:04.:24:09.

Ireland, but here is the key point, because the United Kingdom has a

:24:10.:24:13.

huge trade deficit with the rest of the EU, in other words selling more

:24:14.:24:20.

to us than we to them, they have a vested interest in maintaining that.

:24:21.:24:24.

They have a vested interest in continuing the trade. So if and when

:24:25.:24:30.

the exit there will be agreements to continue that. That bill applied to

:24:31.:24:35.

the Republic of Ireland as well as the rest of Europe, because it is we

:24:36.:24:43.

only did more than -- be more than we need them. It sits as strongly as

:24:44.:24:52.

strong trading nation, similar to Britain, we explored 80% of what is

:24:53.:24:57.

produced, doubled the European Union average. Britain is nearest

:24:58.:25:02.

neighbour, we are likewise a huge trading partner for Britain as well.

:25:03.:25:07.

If you think about Britain exporting more to our land than to Brazil,

:25:08.:25:12.

India and China combined. That shows the huge trade that is across the

:25:13.:25:18.

Irish Sea in both directions. I firmly believe, if the parameters

:25:19.:25:27.

that we trade in at the moment, if there are no restrictions which add

:25:28.:25:32.

to costs for both the export and import, it will be a negative for

:25:33.:25:35.

the economies of Britain and Ireland. But the differences for the

:25:36.:25:40.

Republic of Ireland the bulk of their trade is with the rest of the

:25:41.:25:45.

EU. For the United Kingdom the bulk of trade is with the rest of the

:25:46.:25:48.

world. Therefore we can afford to leave it. Maybe the Irish Republic

:25:49.:25:54.

is so tied in the cannot afford to leave. That is a matter for them.

:25:55.:26:00.

But they could see the wisdom of the United Kingdom flourishes after

:26:01.:26:07.

leaving the EU. Injury strategy. -- dangerous strategy. A lot of your

:26:08.:26:11.

critics and opponents and those who would like to see the UK stay in the

:26:12.:26:17.

EU, they have said that while the UK may be a net contributor to the EU,

:26:18.:26:23.

Northern Ireland however is a net beneficiary. That is not correct.

:26:24.:26:31.

United Kingdom contributes ?20 billion per year into the EU. The

:26:32.:26:37.

Northern Irish share of that, like the Barnett Formula in reverse, is

:26:38.:26:45.

about 500,000 - ?600,000 per year. The total receipts in the last

:26:46.:26:51.

available year, from the European Union, are ?430 million. Less than

:26:52.:26:59.

we contribute. Figures confirmed last week, which is 500 million

:27:00.:27:03.

euros for Northern Ireland and the border region. Your critics would

:27:04.:27:08.

say, if Northern Ireland does not continue to be part of the EU

:27:09.:27:12.

through the UK, we would lose out on that kind of funding. What was

:27:13.:27:16.

announced was for the next seven years. 220 million -- 229 million

:27:17.:27:25.

euros. It is over the next seven years, for the border regions of the

:27:26.:27:29.

Republic and Northern Ireland. That is all it is. That is about ?15

:27:30.:27:36.

million per year. That is nothing when compared to the fact that the

:27:37.:27:41.

health service gobbles up more than ?4 billion. And on top of that there

:27:42.:27:48.

is interim money, which is of a similar vein spread even similar.

:27:49.:27:53.

That some of throwing money we get back. It is a growing money we are

:27:54.:28:00.

getting back and they only get back half of what we put in. Brendan, how

:28:01.:28:06.

do you respond? He is not factoring in that foreign investment comes to

:28:07.:28:11.

both Ireland and Britain, such as from the United States. But not

:28:12.:28:18.

subject to bureaucracy from muscles. And also based on access to the

:28:19.:28:22.

European market of 500 million people, another fact he has not

:28:23.:28:27.

alluded to. I represent two southern Ulster counties and I need but a lot

:28:28.:28:34.

of my neighbours north of the border and the farming community, and I

:28:35.:28:41.

have yet to meet a farmer from any part of Northern Ireland that is not

:28:42.:28:44.

in favour of remaining within the European Union. But the farming

:28:45.:28:50.

community, farming and agriculture, is dependent on continued membership

:28:51.:28:56.

of the European Union. Let me put that point... How do you respond to

:28:57.:29:05.

that? A lot of farmers are nervous about the Brexit. There is no sector

:29:06.:29:10.

more under the cosh of Brussels bureaucracy than farmers. The forms

:29:11.:29:14.

filled in, when they can spread slurry, do anything, take your cat

:29:15.:29:19.

to Brussels. And the single farm payment is a different story? Of an

:29:20.:29:27.

money back, which would be made up, because agriculture is key to the

:29:28.:29:31.

economy of the United Kingdom, made up of a national scheme which would

:29:32.:29:35.

be far better for us in that we would have the money to spend on our

:29:36.:29:40.

own people instead of subsidising the inefficient farmers of Italy,

:29:41.:29:45.

France, Greece, Romania, which is what we are doing at the moment. We

:29:46.:29:55.

will have to leave it there. Have rained two at moment. There should

:29:56.:29:58.

be more opportunity to discuss this. Thank you both very much. -- we all

:29:59.:30:00.

have round two. Over to the Corner now,

:30:01.:30:02.

where there's plenty to mull over with tonight's commentators

:30:03.:30:05.

Professor Deirdre Heenan We'll talk about that interview

:30:06.:30:06.

with Martin McGuinness shortly, but first to tonight's news

:30:07.:30:10.

that Naomi Long is back She has been selected for East

:30:11.:30:19.

Belfast for the Assembly. Your response to that? No huge surprise?

:30:20.:30:27.

Not huge but welcome. It is easy to forget she had a particularly

:30:28.:30:31.

bruising time that involved bombs and bullets. But I believe she and

:30:32.:30:36.

she can make a difference and Northern Ireland needs performance

:30:37.:30:40.

of her calibre, someone articulate and could make clear what it is they

:30:41.:30:47.

are trying to do. Absolutely I agree, incisive, energetic,

:30:48.:30:52.

intelligent, we need more of it. The former MP was selected for East

:30:53.:30:56.

Belfast as both an Assembly member for East Belfast in the past. Gareth

:30:57.:31:01.

Gordon was speaking to her shortly after the news was made public and

:31:02.:31:05.

asked her for her reaction to being reselected.

:31:06.:31:10.

It was quite a journey for me in deciding what to do but I reached

:31:11.:31:16.

the conclusion that for me I wanted to make a contribution in politics

:31:17.:31:20.

and wanted to continue to do that in the assembly and I am pleased to

:31:21.:31:24.

have been selected along with Chris Lyttle and Tim Morrow to stand at

:31:25.:31:29.

the assembly elections and I hope that we are able to return a team of

:31:30.:31:32.

three to make a difference. Does that mean that you considered not

:31:33.:31:38.

coming back? After May I was tired, exhausted, it was a

:31:39.:32:00.

bruising five years and I took the time to find my passion because they

:32:01.:32:04.

did not want to come back because people expected me to, I wanted to

:32:05.:32:07.

come back because I thought I had something to contribute. I am

:32:08.:32:09.

convinced after reflection that there is still work to be done and

:32:10.:32:12.

there is still a role for the Alliance Party in terms of what we

:32:13.:32:15.

can deliver. I still want to be part of that. I could not go off and have

:32:16.:32:18.

a nice life because I would find myself shouting at the television

:32:19.:32:20.

and getting frustrated because I am passionate. When did you make that

:32:21.:32:23.

decision? I made the decision at Christmas. Your passion must have

:32:24.:32:25.

been dented if you spent seven months deciding whether and not to

:32:26.:32:30.

continue. What happened was I needed rest. I was very tired, it was a

:32:31.:32:40.

very exhausting campaign and they took the time to rest and

:32:41.:32:42.

recuperate. I took the time to remind myself what it was like to

:32:43.:32:45.

have a life outside of politics. To do normal things for a while was

:32:46.:32:48.

important to be ground myself and what I found when I did that was

:32:49.:32:52.

despite how much I enjoyed that like and how much I enjoyed the time and

:32:53.:32:57.

how valuable it was, I still missed politics because I am passionate

:32:58.:33:01.

about Northern Ireland and passionate about making change here

:33:02.:33:04.

and I believe the Alliance Party is the right vehicle and I am honoured

:33:05.:33:14.

that they believe I have a contribution to make. How did you

:33:15.:33:16.

feel after what happened in May? Did you take it badly, did you feel

:33:17.:33:22.

better? Not at all. Why would I? For me, the election campaign was as

:33:23.:33:25.

successful as it could have been in the circumstances in which it was

:33:26.:33:30.

run. We added 4000 votes to the votes I had in the previous election

:33:31.:33:34.

so I think we debunked the myth that the only reason I took the seat was

:33:35.:33:39.

because Peter Robinson was in trouble. That was not the case, I

:33:40.:33:46.

increased my vote. I think we won a moral victory and if we had been on

:33:47.:33:50.

a level playing field, I think we would have retained the seat. I was

:33:51.:33:55.

not bitter, I was exhausted, but my initial reaction when I did not win

:33:56.:33:59.

this seat was concerned for my staff because it was not just about what I

:34:00.:34:03.

was going to do with my future but also what the people who had worked

:34:04.:34:06.

so closely with me over that period were going to do about their futures

:34:07.:34:11.

and also the constituents whom I had worked for, the cases I had worked

:34:12.:34:15.

on, making sure that those people were able to transition, get their

:34:16.:34:19.

results and get the service we wanted to give. My only long talking

:34:20.:34:28.

to Gareth Gordon. Let us talk about Martin McGuiness. You have an

:34:29.:34:33.

interest in legacy issues. He talked a lot about legacy issues and he was

:34:34.:34:38.

prepared to call it as he sees it in terms of who is responsible. The

:34:39.:34:48.

more they call it as they see it. Somehow this has to get an and

:34:49.:34:54.

Martin McGuiness ad nets that but it has to be attended to. As far as he

:34:55.:34:59.

is concerned it is the fault of the Secretary of State. Other people may

:35:00.:35:04.

think it is the fault of Sinn Fein. We keep going around. Yes, I would

:35:05.:35:08.

love to see people starting to say this is what I will do instead of

:35:09.:35:12.

saying this is what I expect someone else to do. That will help. The

:35:13.:35:17.

chances of any of this being resolved before they are virtually

:35:18.:35:21.

none will stop I would think zero, they could not resolve it as part of

:35:22.:35:27.

the Fresh Start and it has been pushed aside. I think it is

:35:28.:35:33.

interesting, I felt Martin was quite subdued in that conversation. You

:35:34.:35:36.

referred to his climb-down over welfare and he did not flinch or as

:35:37.:35:40.

previously he would have gone mad over the suggestion. He also said he

:35:41.:35:44.

had to get on with Arlene Foster because they could get nothing done

:35:45.:35:49.

unless they agreed. Everyone in Northern Ireland knows that because

:35:50.:35:54.

Stormont has been covered in a permafrost. Him moving to Foyle will

:35:55.:35:59.

add zest to the constituency and we will be watching with great

:36:00.:36:06.

interest. It is putting it up to SDLP and they are trying to spook

:36:07.:36:10.

Colum Eastwood. Will he say we are not bothered or does he focus on the

:36:11.:36:16.

young people in the party? I noticed today year unveiled his new spokes

:36:17.:36:20.

team and they are young, he has swept aside and a lot of the old

:36:21.:36:24.

guard and I imagine that is what he will be playing on, the focus on the

:36:25.:36:32.

future instead of the past. Deirdre referred to the part about welfare

:36:33.:36:35.

and that Sinn Fein did not deliver what they said they would. He did

:36:36.:36:40.

not really argue with that, he made the point that the reality of

:36:41.:36:43.

politics is that that is the best deal they could get anti-use the

:36:44.:36:47.

word compromise. He did and I found that interesting. He did not take

:36:48.:36:56.

any eight. I think that he was right to admit he did what he had to do,

:36:57.:37:00.

his party did but they had to do, but they need to do what they have

:37:01.:37:04.

to do in other respects. Then we have the Brexit debate and he said

:37:05.:37:08.

he supports the Taoiseach and the Taoiseach made the point that it was

:37:09.:37:12.

important for the Republic and Northern Ireland and we had an

:37:13.:37:17.

interesting failure of the mines to meet between Brendan Smith and Jim

:37:18.:37:22.

Allister. Not surprising. What came out of that debate is that there is

:37:23.:37:27.

scaremongering on both sides. The EU has not been the subject of any

:37:28.:37:30.

informed debate, it does not make the regional news, but we need to

:37:31.:37:36.

have a better understanding of the political, social and wider cultural

:37:37.:37:40.

consequences. A final sentence on that. I was surprised to hear Jim

:37:41.:37:45.

say that we were lifting up the week and we

:37:46.:37:46.

That's it from The View for this week.

:37:47.:37:52.

Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.35, here on BBC One.

:37:53.:37:54.

But before we go, a quick vocabulary lesson.

:37:55.:37:56.

To babble, to prattle, to blether, to blather -

:37:57.:37:59.

to waffle - that was the word of the week at Stormont.

:38:00.:38:01.

Can I remember the Minister that the two minute rule? Helping people in

:38:02.:38:16.

Northern Ireland. Can I remind the minister about the two minute rule?

:38:17.:38:21.

Order! I again remind him about the two minute rule. Tell him to advise

:38:22.:38:27.

their ministers to give less waffle and more answers. I have taken the

:38:28.:38:31.

appropriate action. Before we move on can I remind the

:38:32.:38:48.

minister about the two minute rule? Local government has a central role

:38:49.:38:51.

to play because they will prioritise this, they will drive that and they

:38:52.:38:55.

will need executive support to do so. I called Mr Jim Allister. That

:38:56.:38:58.

was pure waffle! bought on the streets

:38:59.:39:03.

of east Belfast,

:39:04.:39:08.

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