17/03/2016 The View

It's a day of celebration across the island of Ireland

and around the globe, so why has St Patrick's Day become

tainted by anti-social behaviour and disorder

Tonight on The View, we ask - is it time for our politicians

to take the lead in reclaiming St Patrick?

Attacks on police, all-day drinking and anti-social behaviour.

It should be a family-friendly event, but scenes like these have

blighted St Patrick's Day celebrations in Belfast.

So while it's been a succesful day in other towns and cities,

what can our political leaders do to alter behaviour

Arlene Foster and Martin McGuinness launch a charm offensive

with the Americans, but how will their new adviser in New York

We'll talk live to Shaun Kelly in the Big Apple.

we assess Stormont's performance over the last five years.

And here with their own end of term reports, we welcome back

to Commentators' Corner Paul McFadden and Alex Kane.

St Patrick with the President while promoting Northern Ireland

as a location for jobs and investment.

But here, the headlines are dominated by the actions of huge

numbers of students out drinking on the streets.

So why has St Patrick's Day become tainted by anti-social behaviour?

And is there the political will to find a solution?

and DUP councillor Christopher Stalford.

You are both very welcome to the programme. Christopher, you've got

the First Minister and Deputy First Minister singing off the same song

sheet in Washington, yet, in Belfast, one part of Belfast at

least, it's turned out to be as divisive as it has ever been, why

has that happened? We recognise the divisive nature that there was in

previous Saint Patrick's Day celebrations. That's why we moved to

invest in Saint Patrick's Day to extract some of the more

controversial elements. That hasn't worked. No, it clearly

hasn't. We need to review the way that money was spent on drug again

at different ways that we as a governing body can't find of

supporting St Patrick's Day. Certainly, I think in terms of the

situation that has arisen, if you are asking me what I would like to

see happen, I'm clear on this. I think the universities have been far

too lenient in the past. I represented that area for nine

years, the people are tortured on a daily basis. This is the cherry on

the cake that builds throughout the year.

The people who live in that road are tormented. The university needs to

take a hold on their students and tell them that a Buddhist, we will

not bite. The universities have said that they

take this matter very seriously. Up with this we will not pot.

They say in recent years it has been successful and relatively peaceful.

I have seen video but digital of people chanting IRA slogans. I've

been told that one of my colleagues who happens to be a Unionist was

referred to in derogatory and offensive terms. It's clear that

even in terms of events we as a council have organised there is work

to be done in terms of making an event that everyone feels

comfortable at. But the main body of work is to be

done in south Belfast. What is the problem as far as you see it,

Fearghal McKinney? Defining the problem first of all

has to be the starting point. It isn't necessarily just around

Saint Patrick. That happens to be the day but there are lots of people

coming into the area from outside. Only one student was charged. There

are lots of people, a mixture of alcohol and youthful exuberance,

that is a high octane mix. Long periods of drinking, leading to ill

discipline. Of course, then, late at night things spill over into

violence. But what can the universities do

about that? Other colleges as well? They need to

put their hands up and say that while other strategies have worked

up to a point they haven't worked completely.

They need to work out what is actually wrong. All the students I

saw there today in that area were drinking, there is no diversionary

tactic. What sort of diversionary tactic?

What works and as you pointed out what has worked in relation to the

Belfast parade. We identify the issues that make it a negative event

and promote it to good effect. But if those young people causing

trouble last night wanted to they could be doing it at the Belfast

parade? That's there for everybody. The point is they are choosing not

to. Yes, people need to understand that.

The University do good work and spend about ten weeks working on it

but that has clearly failed. E-mail sent out to students is not enough

because there are people coming from all over Northern Ireland getting on

trains, buses, cars and heading home. It may not have been

communicated by the University. The pro-Vice Chancellor of Ulster

University called for a more coordinated approach by all

agencies, he said, specifically, we need to be political willpower to

back-up the solution and see that it is implemented. A lot of people

observing the situation say that politicians do a lot of talking but

are not helping to solve the problem.

Let Chris rants about first. We, as a council, introduced a scheme in

that part of the city to crack on anti-social behaviour. We invested

in additional provision to prevent the neighbourhood from becoming

cluttered with unpleasantness. I am a huge supporter of Queens

University and the University of Ulster. They are huge prize in my

constituency but it is deeply unfair, after the events of today,

to simply say this is a thing that politicians have two solid. That is

not fair. It is a societal problem, isn't it?

The universities paid a certain amount of money by the government,

per student. The questionnaires are the universities prepared to risk

losing that many by expelling students that are behaving in a bad

way, or are the residents that live in those areas just going to have to

put up with it. If it turns out to be the case that

trouble was caused exclusively by students. We don't know that at this

stage. Last time round it seemed that some of the trouble was caused

by people from outside the area who were not students. Now we understand

what the problem is. People congregating in the specific area.

There is no doubt in my mind that people couldn't physically live

there. So is it a social problem or a

cultural problem? I think it can't be called a

cultural problem because all the parade, everywhere else in Northern

Ireland, England and the globe worked out fine. This is a specific

problem, people are gathering in a specific area. University is closed

this day. That's the type of thing that I think this University needs

to look at. You think the university should be

open? The university should think about

staying open. I heard someone from Queens today

explaining that the reason lectures were cancelled over the last couple

of days, was to encourage students to go home. Not to be in Belfast.

Well, it seems that it didn't work. But you can see the logic behind

driving. It may be that they feel the need to

go back to the drawing board, work out what exactly is happening in and

around this area, employ various different tactics, it's up to them

to decide what those are. Also, it has to be said, none of this

behaviour was in any way acceptable. I think everybody would agree with

you as far as that is concerned. I want to broaden its beyond south

Belfast, that is one problem, but there were other parades the length

and breadth of the country which were not problematic. Arlene Foster

referred to, last week, when she was unveiling in mural in south Belfast

to the celebration is becoming more gay lib. She said the Unionist

comfortable community are uncomfortable with certain aspects

of this parade. What a chimney by that?

I think Saint Patrick has almost been appropriated as some kind of

nationalist. I belong to an order called the cross of Saint Patrick. I

recognise Saint Patrick as an historical figure.

Are there some within the community who don't like the notion of it at

all? I think there is a growing prepared

nurse from Unionists to celebrate that aspect of their culture.

I think, when you see, I saw today online the Hibernians parade in York

with people carrying signs, what should ostensibly be a celebration

of our patron saint becomes a statement of political views. I

think that it there is work to be done in terms of extricating the

political eyes Asian of Saint Patrick's Day. I think she was

right. -- politicising Saint Patrick's Day.

A small number of people caused the problem today and yesterday, so

others occasionally blemish the overall culture and nature of Saint

Patrick. By and large, Saint Patrick brought Christianity to Ireland, is

celebrated across the globe, but but it deliberately is it appropriate

for people marking Saint Patrick state to do so draped in the Irish

tricolour? Is that acceptable? Can you see how that would annoy

Unionists who want to be a part of that celebration?

They don't wrap union Jacks around themselves. They treat their flags

with respect. You are talking about flags.

Nationalists tend not to go to 12th of July celebrations.

What I am saying is that you must treat flags with respect. You know,

that means that you don't... Is that a perfectly reasonable

point? I believe the union flag should be

treated with respect. So when Fearghal McKinney says

people shouldn't turn up at the trials of July draped in a union

flag is that reasonable? I don't think it should be tied

around their waist or something like that. Flag should be treated with

respect. In terms of the Saint Patrick celebrations I think what

people want, the growing awareness within the Unionist community about

the problem of Patrick, they want to take part in the celebrations but

they want to do so in a way that is welcoming. They want to be

respectful. We don't want to see what we have seen today in the city,

people chanting IRA slogans at Saint Patrick's Day celebrations.

You wouldn't disagree with that, Fergal?

The vast majority of people in Northern Ireland enjoyed Saint

Patrick say today. We leave it there, thank you for joining us.

The Lord Chief Justice, Sir Declan Morgan, has told the BBC

that he hopes a new type of court aimed at reducing re-offending

Sir Declan says the new system would give those with a history

of addiction and drug-related crime the opportunity

So is there widespread political support for such a move?

Our political correspondent, Stephen Walker, has been

Politicians and academics have long argued how best to deal with people

who repeatedly break the law. For some offenders prison is a

training camp and we simply go back to the old ways when they leave

jail. There is little evidence that prison helps those with serious

addiction problems. So how do we change this behaviour and what do we

do to break the cycle of reoffending? In the USA, special

drugs court have been established for criminals with drug addictions.

Instead of prison they are offered treatment and sometimes made to do

community service. The scheme has seen reoffending rates fall. The

idea has been tried in Glasgow, and the Chief Justice, said Declan

Morgan, says Northern Ireland should be next. There are significant

outputs and there is no reason why Northern Ireland shouldn't enjoy the

same type of launch, and hopefully, with the same benefits.

But the idea of problem-solving courts do not please everyone. If

you make it everything so easy that you are unlikely to face court and

unlikely to ever go to prison, I think victims can rightly feel that

there is an imbalance whereby the deterrence of crime has been

sacrificed for giving us off land to deterrence of crime has been

criminals. Is it fair to see this new scheme as an easy option for

offenders? We need to move away from thinking about being soft on crime

ought off on trying. We need to be smarter and crime. We need to look

at the evidence around the world about what works and what doesn't.

It is better for society because it reduces reoffending. It is better

for offenders because you are addressing the reasons why the

offending the first place. It benefits the taxpayer because prison

is expensive and ineffective in dealing with low-level crime. That

view is shared by Northern Ireland's top judge. We can see how difficult

and demanding these programmes are in relation to those who are

perpetrators. This requires them to engage with offending in a way they

have not done before. And that is a huge challenge for people involved.

If this scheme does get the go-ahead, a pilot study would be run

to test effectiveness. One location that can be consider this year in

Ballymena. The town has a history of drug-related problems and a track

record of dealing with addiction. A service for dealing with those with

drug and alcohol problems is run from the centre. Staff say that when

addiction is tackled, real offending rates all. We have evidence that

offending does come down when people are rehabilitated from drug

dependencies that are destroying their lives along with the

community's lifes. We have seen significant changes in people's

behaviour and in them becoming part of the community. On a QCs the

addiction service here. She is convinced alternatives to prison it

a -- need to be considered. -- Donachie uses the addiction service.

It basically costs the Government more money for something there is no

need for. I think it is a brilliant idea. More so than imprisonment.

Because once you get into the jail system, it is hard to get out of.

And you have experience of a friend who went through a drugs court in

America? Yes. And such a transformation I have not seen on

anybody. He went from being skin and bones and never looked back. I mean

a courthouse is due to close and one suggestion is it could be the venue

for a new drugs court. The scheme has the support of the Probation

Service and would need financial help from the Department of Justice

and the Department of Health. It is resource intensive but the savings

are clear in the long term. The outgoing minister in the Department

of Justice agrees that action is needed. You'll have noticed that the

Justice Committee is keen see it within the bill. An outgoing

minister cannot commit to something like this but I fill each -- fully

believe it should be included. Those administering the laws say that

reform is overdue. I would like to see this brought in by the time the

mandate for the next Assembly has completed. This move has cross-party

support and if that political will translate into action, Northern

Ireland's courts will see their biggest change in decades.

The storm a charm offensive towards US business has moved west.

With Martin McGuinness flying to California to join Arlene Foster

on the latest stage of their mission to attract investors to Northern

Shaun Kelly, who's originally from west Belfast, is part of that

He's the boss of the global professional services company,

KPMG, and he's now landed a new role to promote investment here.

Thank you very much for being with us. Invest NI already has a presence

in the United States. Where do you fit in? Can you hear me, mist Kelly?

Good evening. Now, I think we have a problem. We knew there was a bit of

a problem with New York and also Shaun Kelly not heeding me. If we

can establish a proper line, we will go back to that shortly. Let's move

on. The death of prison officer

Adrian Ismay cast a shadow over Tuesday's final official day

of business at the Stormont It's been an eventful five-year term

and we've heard a lot from those familiar faces bowing

out for the final time, but what of those seeking to win

a place and play a part I'll be talking to three

contenders in a moment, The flag should be flown above City

Hall every day of the year. This is a massive U-turn for the DUP. How is

it going? This is a genuine step forward. An opportunity to move

forward with a real sense of folk. -- hope. Welfare reform. The issue

would split the Executive and Ellie Price down the institutions. Sinn

Fein have capitulated. -- and nearly brought down the institutions.

And I'm joined by Neil Wilson of the Conservative Party

and by Sophie Long from the PUP and Belfast Councillor Gerry Carroll

Welcome. Sophie Long, where do you think that the Assembly has been

successful in the last five years? They have been successful in

maintaining institutions in testing conditions, particularly given the

resurgence in some paramilitary violence. They have managed to push

some legislation through. Some would argue that Northern Ireland simply

functioning at all is a success. So actually be getting to the end of

the mandate is its single biggest achievement? Given the stops and

starts in the past, sustained Government doesn't still confidence

in people that we can govern ourselves. Although we could do it

shows that we do not need others and can do it locally. Any big issues

you would celebrate the handling of by the 108 MLAs on the Hill? They

have failed to deliver for working class people. We have not seen the

implementation of things and cuts have been made on working-class

people. Because for people on the Shankill and it will devastate

working-class communities. We have seen close rules of mental Health

centres. The closure of an organisation provides support for

people... There is a lot to be angry about. But those MLAs have been

elected by people on the Shankill Road and everywhere else on Northern

Ireland. They are operating with the funding envelope handed down from

Westminster. It is and hysterically climate. Can you really blame the

local politicians for living within their means? -- it is and austerity

climate. The cuts were something we have about regularly on the doors.

They were elected, but not to bring in these brutal cutbacks which will

affect people with public sector cuts, health cuts... There is an old

lament bats-mac an acceptable level of cuts -- there is an unacceptable

level of cuts in the Health Service. They are telling us there is no

money for benefits. Is there a real alternative, because Sinn Fein was

dead set against incrementing welfare reform for a long time and

we thought the institutions could collapse because of Sinn Fein's

refusal to move then a particular road. At the end of the day, Sinn

Fein to compromise. It is very to criticise, but is there an

alternative? They borrowed seven and -- ?700 million... Why can't they do

that to improve public watch teams and let people out of poverty? They

flew over to London to beg for corporation tax to be cut. Where is

the demand to make the 1% and corporations to pay up? For those

people to pay? I have not heard a call from Stormont this year from

that. We will talk about who is responsible for that in just a

moment, but I will ask the question I asked the other to bring -- the

other two participants to get the ball rolling. Was there anything

Donachie the last five years worth celebrating? Gully-mac on the doors

I have been knocking on in East Belfast, it is fair to say there is

a great image of anger amongst the population. I think they have every

right to be disappointed. We have had five years when they have

achieved very little. The most notable piece of legislation stems

from the Executive. It is a tax on plastic bags. We have seen stalling

on corporation tax and welfare reform. By way of contrast, we can

see a quickly things can be negated when in the budget yesterday the

Chancellor is saying GB corporation taxes 17%. That is a decision that

can be made quickly when politicians agree. This is not happened in

Northern Ireland and everyone has every right to be upset. Politics is

a funny yield game. Tories find it difficult to get elected in this

part of the world and yet the politicians that do feel that their

hands are tied by your party and its policies in Westminster. We are

growing party. We are still part of the United Kingdom, so the

Conservatives have every relevance here. Not necessarily in a positive

way, which the other members of the panel said. I'm not sure the general

population see it like that. Welfare reform, according to our Balling, is

popular. It will get people back into work and is the right thing to

do and is going down well. If you found yourself elected to the new

mandate, what would be the type of issues you would want to see locally

elected politicians at Stormont killing with? The kinds of things

that they have not grappled with up until now? We do not necessarily

have a system of Government that reflects a normal democracy. We do

not have an economy that reflects a country that most people outside

would recognise as being dynamic and fast moving. The kind of issues I

would like to grapple with the skills shortage. We would like to

have a big part in setting corporation tax levels. We need a

proper manufacturing strategy to help create respectively that will

in turn help Northern Ireland's society. Do either of you agree with

what he has said? Are those the kind of issues that you would be wanting,

Sophie, to see discussed at Stormont? Or is he missing the

point? I would not agree. We are poles apart politically. I am more

to the left. I would argue that the people we need to look after our

ordinary working class people who have suffered with these cuts. And

also throughout the conflict. We would argue that... New figures came

out yesterday and delighted this reception 2007 that continuing with

segregated society costs us around 1 billion per year. We could avoid

welfare reform cuts and punishing the poor and avoid punishing the

sick, avoid making more cuts to education. We are driving young

people away by doing that. If we create conditions for a normalised

society, we don't have to do that. Yes. Quite a few politicians at

Stormont say that they support the concept of integrated education, but

that debate, arguably, has not moved on a great deal in the last 20

years. A lot of people signed up but we still have the education system

that we have. Our party is quite clear on that and the report

produced by the party, headed up by Doctor John Kyle, last year, showed

that there is a clear alternative strategy to make sure education

looks after every child, not just the children going to grammar

schools using pupil profiling. We would ensure educational

opportunities are there. We're training people for jobs that are

not there. I am sure you watch debates at Stormont and follow

discussions and how legislation is passed in a fairly detailed way. If

you were successful in May, and you find yourself returned

you were successful in May, and you with a new mandate, would you be

anything other than a lone voice in the naughty corner, in a chamber

dominated by the two big parties? What hope would you have really

making a difference? We might have more than one elected. One, two or

three... You'd still be a minority. We would make a difference and keep

the parties and Airtours at Stormont -- on their toes at Stormont. We

We advocate people power. Mobilising asperity that they

We advocate people power. Mobilising communities and trade unions. That's

crucial. But when you listen to communities and trade unions. That's

Astor OP, Alistair Unionist and Alliance party these parties are, or

were, until recently in government -- DUP, Ulster Unionists and

Alliance party. If you're not even one of the large parties and you are

struggling, what hope, seriously, is therefore a low voice? There is a

lot of room for it. therefore a low voice? There is a

parties did, they realised they had to be cutbacks. There are people out

there, the majority out there who don't accept that. We are

campaigning in both don't accept that. We are

election time. We don't accept that. We are

voice, the platform of the Assembly to encourage people not to accept

those cuts. That is what we will do inside Stormont.

those cuts. That is what we will do How will it operate from your

those cuts. That is what we will do of view? It's unlikely they will be

lots of Conservatives returned. They might be. There might be

perhaps a small number bet they will be in the naughty corner, a small

voice compared to other parties. The last five years have shown that

the most effective legislation have stemmed from MLA is acting as known

worlds. We have the opposition Bill, this stuff is coming through and

getting cross party support. It's making a real difference. All we had

from the executives is plastic bags. Do you think, you are a Unionist

party, based in Northern Ireland, in the Republic we've seen the rise of

the independence and smaller parties to the point where it's quite

difficult for larger parties to form a government. Is there an appetite

for independent voice? Possibly, yes. That's one of the

outcomes of the new voting system. You don't get a 2-party system. It

is time for a different kind of politics. People are getting

frustrated with the scaremongering that goes on. You don't want

something that scares you into voting for the opposite. Independent

parties are at an alternative. It will be fascinating to see what

happens come the sixth, seventh and 8th of May. Thank you for joining

us. Thank you all, and let's hear

from tonight's commentators, And fortunately, Sean Kelly was

looking good, and we could hear him and he could hear us but not

necessarily at the same time. We've had to let go of the North dimension

tonight. Anyway, there is nonetheless, plenty for us to talk

about. We'll discuss Saint Patrick first of all. This notion,

Christopher used the misappropriation of Saint Patrick by

one community over another. Does that wash with you? I think I

understand what he was saying, he is right to some extent. I was at an

event last night which was held in a church of Ireland church, Saint

Pauls. It was attended by people from two parishes. There were people

who were there to celebrate something they regarded as Ireland.

That was Saint Patrick. They made the point that no one in Ireland can

make an exclusive claim to Saint Patrick. That is something we have

in common and we share. We need to work together and all of that, in a

sense, if Saint Patrick has been appropriated by one tradition rather

than another then perhaps people in the Unionist tradition have two show

you some of the blame for that. In Derry today there was an event with

church leaders, the churches are doing something to appropriate Saint

Patrick for the right reasons. Maybe politicians should follow them. The

Church of Ireland gave me this button hole last night. It's doing

tremendously well. It's lasted 24 hours. That's an interesting point

that Paul raises, whether Saint Patrick has been taken from one part

of the community or whether one part of the community has allowed him to

be taken, handed him over? I'm not sure it is either of those. If you

look at these bonfires, parades, it is clear there is an agenda at a

community organs consider in sea-level. I have no idea what is

happening with the holy land thing. -- at a constituency level. People

just seem to go down there to get tanks up and take their anger out.

They were damaging houses, jumping on cars, they just took any chance.

So perhaps it has nothing to do with Saint Patrick?

I think we shouldn't allow ourselves to buy into the notion that it's

something to do with appropriating Saint Patrick, if they has, they are

showing huge dishonesty. I don't think it's a conscious effort by

unionism to draw back from the celebration of Saint Patrick, I

think that somewhere in the back of their heads they somehow, it's not

that they think it belongs to them. But the symbolism, for a Unionist

turning up in the centre of Belfast and seeing people supporting the

parade dressed in the Irish tricolour is potentially a turn-off.

I understand why you'd would be a turn-off, but I think that we see

farm too much disrespect of flags. We made that point.

It happens on Saint Patrick's Day, it happens on the 12th. In both

cases we see union flags or triggers being disrespected and abused, I

would say. I think there is a big societal problem in Ireland. It's

unacceptable. Earlier on we talked about alcohol and youthful

exuberance as a high octane mix, in my distant use, I was young, I was

exuberant, I took alcohol, but I never ran on the top of cars or

trash neighbours, disrespected neighbours or anything like that.

There is a problem that still needs to be addressed. It's more than

universities or politicians. That is a good point. I lived near

the holy land, they were small parades, we did get tanked up now

and again but there was never this violence and attacking people. That

worries me. The other Saint Patrick 's celebrations passed off

peacefully. We had a parade in Derry that was peaceful.

Let's talk about Stormont, the end of a kneeler.

Have you shed any tears? No, it is the end of two US. It is the end of

the double mandate. This should be just taken for granted, if you look

at the record of what they have done, the big issues, the changing

Northern Ireland, the new EU, none of that has been tackled. My big

there is that the two new parties will come back again and nothing

will change. It suits them not to tackle these issues.

People are attached to this assembly mandate, they came against a

terrible financial backdrop, that awful climate. People are

celebrating. The fact that it has stayed at all is tribute to

The fact that it has stayed at all is tribute to Stormont.

That's it from The View for this week.

Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.35 here on BBC1.

But we leave you tonight with a fond farewell to some of our most

familiar political faces who said their final goodbyes

Northern Ireland is governed from behind a barbed wire. We are talking

about a peace process that is inconceivable. I am looking forward

to spending more time with my family.

For years, we used the Troubles as the old crutch,