30/06/2016 The View

the referendum which should have settled the Europe question has

changed politics here, in Westminster and Brussels.

One week on - we ask if we're any the wiser

as to how, precisely, Brexit will change

They say a week is a long time in politics, but surely even

Harold Wilson at his most imaginative couldn't have envisaged

the twists and turns of the past seven days.

The Prime Minister's resigned, Boris Johnson has ruled himself out

of the leadership race and the Labour party is in turmoil,

as Jeremy Corbyn clings to power without the support of most

After impassioned debate on the floor of the European

Parliament earlier this week, our three MEPs are here

And we'll head to London for the latest on the state

Locked in a room, our commentators thrash it out

to decide who should receive this year's annual View Awards.

Totally disagree. Why and who it should be the?

And that long day runs into the night in Commentators'

Corner, where Deirdre Heenan and Newton Emerson will

Well, what a difference a week makes.

This time last Thursday, the referendum counting

had just got underway, Nigel Farage had all but conceded

defeat and the Remain camp appeared quietly confident.

Since then the political landscape has changed almost

We'll catch up on the drama unfolding at Westminster

later in the programme - but first, let's see

Our three MEPs - Diane Dodds, Martina Anderson and Jim Nicholson -

Diane Dodds, you wanted this outcome.

Is there anything about it which makes you uncomfortable?

The people of the United Kingdom have spoken. The referendum has now

been run. There is a vote to leave and what we need to do is recognise

that there was a narrow vote to leave. Lots of people wanted to

stay. We must now set the result of the referendum, look towards the

future, build on the opportunities that the future will bring us and

also begin that clear negotiation which will bring us out from the

European Union. There is an awful lot of uncertainty and in northern

Ireland more people voted to remain and belief. It was a national

question and we received a national arts and -- answer. We accept the

result of the referendum as part of the United Kingdom. In Brussels this

week it was made perfectly clear that Brussels will only negotiate

with the United Kingdom and with the member state. We in Northern Ireland

need to take a pause, calmly reflect on where we are, bring our people

together and negotiate the best terms we can for the United Kingdom

in that national association. Martina Anderson, you didn't want

this result, but we are where we are and there isn't much

you can do about it. I think that is an absolute insult

to the majority of the people who voted to remain. The majority of

people across the UK voted to leave. As I said, I was an M EP who without

knocking on doors and visiting almost every constituency. The

constituents I care about boats is my own. -- most. The people who

voted for me and my party during the European election, and therefore I

think their vote and the vote to remain has to be respected. It

wasn't. It is not just about the people who voted for you, it is

about everyone who voted and more people voted to leave than remain.

That is democracy. People in the North voted to remain. There was a

number of people, and they voted overwhelmingly to remain. We cannot

have a situation in Ireland where part of the islanders in the EU as

part of it is outside of it. That is what we are looking at now. Of

course it is, and there is turmoil out there. There is concern and

genuine fear and people take exception to be told their concern

and fear is grandstanding. That cannot be further from the truth.

How do you sum up the feeling in Brussels? What do you make of where

we are and where we are going? To some extent I've seen it all before.

We haven't seen anything like this before. When they brought forward

the Constitution and it was rejected in the referendum, they were in as

big a position as they are today. The only difference is now Europe is

27 member states. This is a time for cool heads. Talking to some people

in Brussels, they are certainly... The initial reaction, it's natural

for the reaction that took place. I think what was going to happen.

Nothing is going to happen in Europe now until a new Prime Minister is

elected. Whoever he or she may be. That may be the case but do you

accept you are set on a course now where the UK is going to leave the

European Union? And that card change? I accept the people of the

UK have voted, they voted the way they have. That is democracy. I

think you have two move on. The referendum is over, there's no

reason to refight the referendum. The people have spoken. There are

two things have to happen now, London is going to engage and put

together a team over the summer to engage with Europe when Article 50

is triggered. Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast will probably be standing in

the sidelines on that, not part of the negotiating team, and the other

negotiation that has two J place is between Belfast and London because

we have a mighty big budget shortfall to make up. -- that has to

take place. Time for cool heads, he is theirs. You have to accept the

reality. It is not a done deal. It is. The referendum, technically, has

no legal standing. Politically, it does, I accept that. Even those

people who were for Remain, have accepted that the referendum cannot

be called again. They might not like it but there isn't anything they can

do about it. I am asking people not to roll over. Nicola Sturgeon, I

spoke to her yesterday, she is out there fighting the corner for

Scotland. What I want... We have to wait to see what Scotland does? Will

you let me finish? We have a space and the space we have now for the

kind of representation we need to make in Brussels for the particular

circumstances of Ireland to be taken into account. What is the solution,

then? Exactly what I am saying. You say you have to talk about it but

what is the ultimate solution? Just like the Good Friday Agreement, it

identifies the particular circumstances of the North means we

should have rights that are in addition to the Convention rights,

the European Convention on human rights, we also have a situation in

Brussels and Europe that it is identifying the particular

circumstances of Ireland. We cannot have a situation where we have a

land border as it is called where we have got partition. Partition has

caused us Brexit and we need a conversation here. There are

farmers, S MGs, 3.5 million is going to be lost. -- SMEs.

There's a lot of tea sympathy - but not much more than that

The French president and Spanish Prime Minister have said it is not

up for discussion. It is clear, there will be a veto. Do not roll

over! We have is 240 M E P 's who voted in the parliament this week

for the peace process and for the North and for Scotland, for the

remain vote to be accepted. You said you have to move on. The reality is

that for some people in Northern Ireland and for a lot of people in

Scotland, they will not roll over and they are not prepared to discuss

moving on. The reality of what we saw in the European Parliament this

week was nationalists from Scotland, Republicans from Northern Ireland,

both UK MEPs grandstanding on the floor. What we then got was this

bringing them back to reality with a bump where we actually had

Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of the commission, saying we will

only negotiate with the UK. Donald Tusk refused to meet Nicola Sturgeon

when she went there. She went back to say I was heartened by my visit,

lots of people met me. What the reality is, the reprimand and has

been, the people have given their verdict. That cannot be rewritten.

-- the referendum has been. We need to come together and negotiate a

clear path forward and look to the future. In the meantime, let us not

get into this doomsday scenario. We are still members of the European

Union. We still pay into the European Union, we still draw down

money from the European Union and that will continue until we

negotiate the terms of our exit from the European Union.

But that what Martina Anderson is saying. She and Nicola Sturgeon say

they can get better deals for Northern Ireland and Scotland. And

it begins at a UK level. I had my party leader, the First Minister of

Northern Ireland, will be working very hard to ensure that Northern

Ireland's voices heard. That the particular circumstances of Northern

Ireland are heard and we will be working with other party leaders and

other people within the parliament to make sure that those issues come

together, that they are actually on the table and they are out there for

people to discuss. What is your assessment, Jim Nicholson? Your

party leader had some very interesting things to say in the

Irish News on Monday when he spoke about some potentially dangerous

aspect of this for Northern Ireland. There are some nationals to have

bought into the existing arrangement under the terms of the Good Friday

Agreement, where their desires were underscored by that deal, by the

relationship between Dublin and London, by the country being in the

EU and that is now all discussion in this new Brexit scenario. Other were

you? I think there is a danger of that, not just for Northern Ireland

but for the whole United Kingdom. The genie is out of the bottle and

it will be very difficult to get back in again, as far as some these

things are concerned. Anyone who wanted to know, I certainly was

worried about that and very fearful... In actual fact, I would

want to say that what I was fearful of happening happened a lot quicker

than even I anticipated. The truth is, and everyone was saying that I

spoke to in the European Parliament from the UK, we are a mess. The

situation from Labour and Conservative Right now is not good.

They are all falling down. What I'm saying is that we have today do with

the reality here in Northern Ireland. We will be the hardest hit

region of the United Kingdom in this and we have got to get in there to

defend our region. I have the same very straightforward, I have

listened to what Diane said but I have seen very little coming out on

the Northern Ireland executive at this moment in time. The two MEPs,

both represent the Samak executive party, I have seen nothing from them

at all. There is nothing in Northern Ireland that has been put in place

to deal with this. -- executive party. We have to be that together

and try to pull back in September. We go back in September and we hope

then to get involved in negotiations... Hang on. I want to

bring Martina N. Jim Nicholson makes a very good point Roddy said it is

difficult for Sinn Fein and the DUP to speak as one on this issue. I was

wondering if you could shed more light on Sinn Fein being in this

unity or anything with the Alliance party as well to see if there is

some kind of common ground to try to influence the gauche Asians as they

get underway? Is that the case? It is easier for you to speak to them.

-- negotiations. All others, collectively, are being inundated by

the public. By people out there, Civic Society, who are anxious, who

are worried and you're concerned. I have had numerous e-mail sent to me

and I'm sure everyone else has, from people who are not Sinn Fein voters

who are asking me, appealing to me for us to work together and to do

more. I think the common ground, as you have outlined from the rest of

the political parties, is there. It has not been manufactured. It starts

to look like, to people in the Leave camp, that you were suggesting the

people voting in Northern Ireland voting remain one more valuable than

those voting otherwise. You think that, over here, we should have a

different result to what the UK result was. That is not a good

democracy, is it? Come on. I knew in any way surprised that I would have

that position? Of course I believe that the people here in Ireland and

the people in the north of Ireland... That they are democratic

mandate should be respected. March, it is not just in monetary terms.

Let me finish. There are ?3.5 billion of dedicated fund but many

are. I am looking at the University of Ulster, the Queen's University,

SMEs and all those opportunities are going to disappear... I want to get

Diane in your. Do you know what we're like in the European Union

right now? What's? We are the ugly ducklings. No one wants to speak to

us. She can speak for herself on that one. Look, let's just all

settle down. I am not a pessimistic unionist. The union is safe because

people in Northern Ireland want to be long to the United Kingdom. Every

opinion poll points to fact that more people are set on the

constitutional position of Northern Ireland... Than ever before. Let's

just not wine ourselves up with pessimistic unionism that we have

heard. -- align ourselves up. Look at Nicola Sturgeon. I did not get

pessimism from that. You have to face up to the promises you and your

party have made. I would like to be heard. Make your point. I do think

that Nicola Sturgeon has called one of the biggest bluffs that she could

ever have called. She has to remember that one point five million

people voted to remain as part of the United Kingdom just two years

ago. That is a very important factor to consider. We will continue to be

members of the European Union. We will continue to negotiate our exit

from that and then they will be like every other democratic country in

the world. We will take control of our own affairs and trade and

cooperate with other nations. Well, we will see that does indeed happen.

I did not expect a great meeting of minds and indeed there was no such

tremendous union. It is quite interesting that people tend to be

speaking for Scotland, but there is no one here tonight speaking for

Ireland. Thank you before coming to join us on the programme.

From Europe to the drama currently being played out at Westminster.

The political rules say the frontrunner rarely winds

and that was borne out again as Boris Johnston's lifelong plan

to get his hands on the keys to Number 10 foundered this morning,

while Jeremy Corbyn's grip on the Labour Party seems to be

Joining me now from London are the Daily Mirror's Associate Editor,

Kevin Maguire, and Tory Party member and former Mayoral adviser

How will he be making sense of the past 24 hours?

I think Boris will be really disappointed if not devastated about

what has happened. And I think he will take a really close look at

what has happened since he left City Hall. Because in May, when he

decided to leave after two terms, he left as a politician who was well

respected and someone who had become almost a global statesman in his

role as the Mayo of London. Within two months, he has became a very

polarising politician -- mayor. He has also pulled out of the race to

be the leader of the Conservative Party because he believes he can't

trust them to back him as leader. Would you have backed him if he

stood? I probably would have. I did not see eye to eye with Boris during

the Leave campaign which he ran. I did not feel comfortable about the

rhetoric. I have actually been sent to Brussels by Boris to deal with

the 300 million euros fine on air quality that we were handed. I dealt

with the bureaucracy and the challenges that Europe has in terms

of dealing with issues and I saw the frustration of seeing what

bureaucrats and politicians, the distance they have from the issues

and the people in nations. But I still feel that we should have shown

leadership in Europe. We should have had a part to play. However, that is

the past and we did not see eye to eye on that. When it comes to being

a leader and using his political capital for good and bringing teams

together, and people together, and being positive and taking us to

difficult times, I believe he is exceptional. Unfortunately, he will

not be able to display that come at this point, as Prime Minister.

Was he betrayed by Michael Gove in an astonishing act

Absolutely astonishing. This is a very juicy episode of gamer thrones.

Political convulsions from the revolution -- Game of Thrones. I

think I was an act of treachery. It seems to be quite clear from Michael

Gove, who decided he wanted to go for the leadership insult. At the

same time, there were question marks over Boris Johnson' ability to get

people on his side and it is very well-known as being a street act,

going to entertain people sitting in City Hall, very much different from

becoming Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, which is what this

is all about. It is a bit of both, really. Absolutely astonishing

politics and that treachery and the charge sheet against Boris Johnson.

What do you think the chances are for Michael Gove? I just looked at

an interview that he said last week that he did not want to be Prime

Minister and he was not equipped to be primers. Surely that will haunt

him throughout his entire career and, if he was successful,

throughout his time at number ten. Absolutely. He's launching his

campaign tomorrow and you will be asked again and again about that.

What is your lying has he changed his mind? What has brought round?

Keyword very closely with Boris Johnson during that referendum

campaign and it was going to be his campaign chief. Then he decided he

was going to go for it himself. He broke up with that use this morning

and Boris Johnson bottled it. He said he did not want to risk the

humiliation of getting to the final two. It will be difficult for

Michael Gove because of that. Teresa May, the Home Secretary, has also

emerged as a very strong, clear frontrunner. Boris Johnson was a

frontrunner. He tripped. Maybe she will do too. It will be very hard

for Michael Gove Dell with all those questions around him, the role of

his wife being asked as well with her being accused of playing the

honourable lady best role. It is just astonishing. Backtrack Lady

Macbeth. To pick up on that point, do you think anyone can stop to read

on a? There is a long way to go. At least there are decisive move is

going on. We may not all agree with them but will get the Labour Party

right now and the paralysis and back of decision-making, the poor

leadership, the absolute chaos that involves that. I know Kevin has said

it is a Game of Thrones look to the Conservative side but it is like

Carry On Labour on the other side. I think people will look for a good,

capable, sold leader who can deliver as Prime Minister of this country,

which is what is required in this time of political challenge and

uncertainty. People want authentic people, politicians, they can trust

them. If that becomes brutal in terms of finding the right person,

hopefully we'll find someone who is tough enough and can bring those

qualities to the forefront of the Conservative campaign. At the

moment, Labour should be capitalising on the Tories but they

are having a crisis of their own. Very much so. They do not have a

vacancy but they are trying to create a vacancy. Jeremy Corbyn is

hanging on for grim life, because he has suffered from all cultural

resignation from his own party and from Westminster. There are already

talks of people from his own party running against him, and there isn't

a vacancy to run for. If he does not resign and throw in the towel, I am

told that some members of his family even believe it should -- believed

he should, some of his closest allies believe he should. He wants

to defend his latest mandate, that was 60% of the Labour Party if

you're a member. There have been almost 60,000 people joining the

Labour Party recently, some to join in supporting him and some to try to

oust him. It is entirely possible that he could be re-elected, but he

would not have the confidence of his MPs. And of his former Shadow

Cabinet members. Labour is an Internet rebel position right now.

Both major parties are just reeling from the consequences of that trip

the light referendum. -- in a terrible position. I suppose that's

the outcome you think the Tories would like to see, for Jeremy Corbyn

to hang in there because that would give them the eligible advantage. It

could be seen that way but the people of the country will not get

that way. I believe everyone is desperate to actually see some

certainty, some leadership from both little parties. I think it is good

that the Conservatives have set an aggressive timescale in terms of

getting a new Prime Minister in place by early September. The Labour

Party does need to sort itself out, it does need to find that

leadership, that a party can rally around and India credible

opposition. Identikit works for anybody. It does not work or two

bodies of the people. Good to talk to you both. Thank you.

Now, it's our final programme of the series so,

in keeping with tradition, we have The View's fourth

Five of our regular team of commentators were locked

in a room with me and told to wrack their brains and come up

with worthy winners in five hotly-contested categories.

Welcome to the The View awards 2016. Best minister. I know he has won

twice before and I think it should be Simon Hamilton 60 because he

didn't use the health portfolio to make political points. Totally

disagree. Who should it be? Michelle O'Neill who has taken the politics

out of health because her first move in office was to overturn gay blood

donations. I think it would be an accomplishment. Clare Sugden's

decision to be a minister. Pure gumption. That would be fine if

their category was best decision to be a minister but it is best

minister. She has performed at least as adequately as every other

minister. I am coming round to Rick's point of view that Arlene has

performed well. That might be one of the most tricky ones. Best use of

social media. We should scrap these awards because they are all pretty

terrible at it. Who stands out for you? I give Naomi Long credit

because she engages ferociously with people. I had a chance to speak

about Naomi Long about her use of social media. Martin McGuinness uses

it to tweet about good news. I think shown enormous courage on social

media on abortion and same-sex marriage. Most entertaining

politician. I would like to nominate Emma Pengelly, if that is her name.

She is entertaining. It is hard to surpass Jim Allister. He is so

funny, he is able to get all that negativity across almost nicely. He

is genuinely entertaining in a sort of Bob Monkhouse kind of way. Ups

and downs on the road he has experience. I would like to nominate

Barry McElduff. He said as I entered public life I shouldn't try to

impress anyone. I asked him why and he said it's because I wouldn't. It

is that kind of straight talking that you love. Self awareness. So we

are on to best newcomer. Claire Bailey,. Claire Hanna. I agree. She

has come to the fore recently. Two people I think who are worth

watching in the sense I think they could make a difference to how

Unionism thinks. Final category is best politician. John McCallister.

If you are talking about the job done by one person who has made the

most difference, that is the opposition bill. Any other name is

deserving of honourable mention? , Arlene. She had quite a heavy job

following on from Peter Robinson. Also Megan Ferran from Sinn Fein.

That is it. We've managed to wade away through it and arrive at some

interesting decisions and thank you all very much indeed. The UN a

year's time. -- see you in. With me now are two of the judges

you just saw in our film, On behalf of everybody who was there

that day. We will talk quickly about that

discussion and then we will open the envelope. It was the one we have the

most long discussion about. Most candidates ended up being female. It

took us a long time to get agreement. I think we had to leave

it and come back to it. I thought we would be there for most of the day.

Also because ministers have not done very much this year because of the

election and resignations. Open the envelope. The winner is...

That was quite a heated discussion to, wasn't it? We thought some

people should stop using social media. We just don't really see what

the advantage is. We will see if we even have this category next year.

There were suggestions we should have worst use of social media. The

clue was in the title. It is not just there to retweet things you

have been told. We want to get a sense of personality and who should

not respond to random people. I think we all agree. Who one? The

winner is... For the second year in a row. Well

done. This is an interesting one. Depends

what you mean about entertaining. If I remember rightly last you you

refuse to vote on this. It was for them inadvertently entertaining

politician. Tongue in cheek on your part. Let's open the envelope. We

couldn't go past him, Jim analyst. -- Jim Allister. This year there is

real opposition so I think it is time, maybe past. There was

agreement his time in the limelight may be over. I'm sure the award

means even more to the planet might have under different circumstances.

Glastir we scrapped this category but we brought it back this year. --

last year. I was sadly unable to vote for a new, in his 70s. All will

be revealed. I think the difficulty was newcomer, we were talking about

people who had just been given a mandate because it seemed to soon to

talk about if they had made any impact. And the winner is...

Well done to her, she certainly been busy over the last few months. Last

but a not least, best politician. Mike Nesbitt won last year that his

name did not feature at all in our discussions. There was quite a lot

of discussion and I suppose overlap over this and best minister that in

the end I think it was all to do with legacy. That gives us a big

clue. And the winner is... John McCallister. It was just about

unanimous, wasn't it? Before we entered the madness of this week we

were all talking about an era of opposition in Stormont and that is

his legacy. A little consolation to him that he wins this award and gets

a little certificate for his study because it will not be hanging in

the Stormont office because he no longer has one. At the moment, very

true. Well done, John. What a week. You could not make it up. I think

the former governor of the Bank of England said to calm down and

remember in 5-10 years we will be roughly back politically and

economic lead to where we are now. I thought what was interesting is that

he forgot about Scotland and the chance of the UK picking up. The

English have blanked the rest of the country. That is what will decide

whether we are into... What will happen over the next ten years and

whether Scotland stays all go. I think it was interesting that our

MEPs are very divided. There is no agreement about what has happened,

what will happen in the short term and what is best in the long-term. I

think this is a time where we actually need some unity. We are in

the position we're in, we cannot be in denial. Brexit has been a large

movement in small thinking and we have two address it. If we can agree

a way forward, we can get special treatment for another night --

Northern Ireland. We need to address it. Next leader of the Conservative

Party. Theresa May. Next leader of the Labour Party. Tom Watson. Angela

Eagle. That's it from The View for this

series, but what a week to end. Congratulations to all our awards

winners and thanks to all our The View will be back to do it

all again in September but do join me for Sunday Politics at 11.35

here on BBC One.