22/09/2016 The View

Stormont has changed and opposition is the new buzz word.

Tonight on The View I'll be asking the Executive parties

and their opposite numbers how it'll change

the way they do business up on the hill.

There's now a new way of working at the Assembly,

with opposition structures in place and the first Opposition Day

But will it actually mean better government or could it

And are the Executive parties taking those on the opposition

I'll be asking the four parties if good opposition

Also tonight: As a flurry of criticism greets the appointment

of David Gordon as Stormont's senior spin doctor, how will he navigate

He will have issues to deal with that will come up, not just bread

and butter day-to-day issues, but there will be issues and crises and

events that he will have to manage. And when fiction mirrors reality

and you find yourself I am not the story here. You kind of

the story, they spout your name right and everything.

And also in the thick of things in Commentators' Corner

are columnist Newton Emerson and Professor Deirdre Heenan.

Monday will see a significant change in the way Stormont does business,

with the Assembly's first ever Opposition Day.

It's the direct result of reforms outlined in last year's

The Official Opposition is made up of parties which are entitled

to Executive posts but choose not to take them.

There is no Leader or Deputy Leader, but Opposition members do have

enhanced speaking rights, and they're also entitled to extra

And there will be ten Opposition Days in each session.

Those are the logistics, but what sort of impact will it have

Joining me from the Executive parties, Ministers Simon Hamilton

and Chris Hazzard, and from the Official Opposition,

You are all welcome to the programme. Philip Smith, first of

all, how much will things like opposition Days change the

relationship between the executive and the opposition? We are one week

back after recess and we have already seen in that week, we have

had a change of the law by royal prerogative to appoint the new

government spin docs and we have shown that the government has no

Brexit plan and this week 's spotlight has shown the allegations

around Gerry Adams, but why do we need an opposition? I think it is

self evident. It is a good question. I said in the introduction there is

no official leader but your leader, Mike Nesbitt, styles himself as the

Leader of the Opposition. Is that what years? Here is leader of our

party and the leader of the biggest party in the opposition so he is

leading an opposition against the government and he supported by other

parties including the SDLP and others, to try and put the

government parties under scrutiny and this week as evidenced that is

needed more than ever. If he is the Leader of the Opposition, you are

the deputy leader, right? I am nobody 's deputy. I can quote the

bill if you want, there is a leader of the second largest party in

opposition. I am very relaxed about him calling himself the Leader of

the Opposition but I am interested in holding the government to

account. It wasn't an easy thing for our party to go into opposition.

Nationalists here were forced into opposition from more than 40 years

so we didn't take it lightly but we made a promise to the public before

the election that if I couldn't endorse the programme for government

I would go into opposition and that is what we have done and we are

working towards a constructive and positive opposition to try make sure

that we have a better relationship with the Republic -- public. It is

about the relationship between our institutions and the public which

has been damaged very much over the last few years. It is also about the

relationship between the SDLP and the Ulster Unionist party, is there

any sense you are working together as a combined force against the

joint force of the DUP and Sinn Fein? There isn't any great

evidence. Firstly there was no great obligation for us to work together

but we do work together. I spoke to Mike Nesbitt today about the

Opposition Day and the work that our parties have put together working

closely on all of that, but we aren't the ones that are supposed to

be working together. The parties sitting across from me have an

obligation in government to work together, not just go out of their

way to secretly employ someone who is another overpaid adviser to this

government to try and close down the opposition and not close down the

business of the day or stop public members bills coming in but to try

and change the way the government is viewed by the public out there

because I think there is a very bad reputation. Is there a combined

opposition vision for the future? Is there an alternative on show that

you would put before voters in five years' time? You launched your

vision for Northern Ireland outside the EU but it was your document, not

a combined document with the SDLP. That is very true. Why was that the

case. There is a very good relationship between us and the STL

P colleagues. We attend our events and they have attended our events

and owl whips work well together. It is only a few months in. By now you

could have published a combined strategy which would have been more

impressive than your vision or no vision. The government has been

together for nine years and they couldn't come up with a combined

vision on Europe together and they still don't have one, so at least we

agreed on what the results should have been and we are working

together but the question is not what the opposition are doing but

what are the government doing. We showed at our debate on Monday that

we have a plan but the government has a blank sheet of paper and

nothing -- no idea about what to do about breaks down we are the most

affected part of the UK but the least prepared. How worried are you

about the impact of this joint, combined official opposition. As a

party we supported the creation of an opposition and we could see from

many years back that it would be a sign of normalising politics here.

You immediately cut it back to ten Opposition Days and they should have

been a lot more than that. Let me finish answering the question. We

happy there is an opposition and it is a matter for the party is

opposite that they decided to go into opposition after being rejected

by the electorate back in May. They could have been in the executive!

Your discussion with my colleagues opposite have highlighted exactly

the problem. We want to see an opposition which is a sign of

normalising politics and it is good for politics and democracy. They are

clearly experiencing problems. They have a fanciful policy document from

the Ulster Unionist party and it couldn't even get the support of the

SDLP. We have been criticised by the parties opposite for not having a

combined vision that our two parties, Sinn Fein and the DUP have

agreed a draft plan for the government framework which we are

working on and the parties opposite rejected it but we have a vision but

there is no coherence and while there is coherence developing

between ourselves and Sinn Fein, with a draft plan for government we

are getting together on delivering jobs and roads. You are in

government and you have an obligation. Where is your joint

strategy on breaks it? Of course we're going to have differences on a

range of issues. How did you vote on breaks it? We are getting on with

our jobs and I go to Germany and that is part of my job as a minister

to highlight Northern Ireland. Given the size of the German economy and

their influence in the EU, wouldn't it eat Brexit have been at the top

of your agenda. People there want to do business with the United Kingdom

and they are looking forward to the opportunities that leaving the

European Union presents for the UK and the Northern Ireland. Do you

want to answer the question about how you voted in the Brexit

referenda more do you want to dodge it? I support the party 's position.

I think you voted to leave. There is nothing to be gained by going back

over the referendum campaign. We think you must have voted remain

because you are not prepared to say that you voted believe. I am very

comfortable with the results. There is nothing anybody can do about the

referendum. If you want to lay this to rest once and for all you could

confirm that you voted to leave and if you do not do that people will

think you voted to remain. People aren't interested in how... What

they are interested in is whether we can get the best deal for Northern

Ireland that they possibly can and that is what I have been doing all

summer, I have been engaging with Cabinet ministers to get the best

deal for Northern Ireland. We are trying to secure the opportunities

that exist. Chris, the you will not give us a straight answer to a

simple question. Did you go to leave or remain? There are huge

opportunities... You're not going to answer that, fine. What do you think

about the opportunities for Brexit? You are in the same government has

Joe Corrie case what are the opportunities? This fundamentally

gets at the point that just the media and the opposition parties

like to portray it is the end of the world because there are political

differences between myself and Simon. There are coalition

governments throughout the world with differences of opinion and they

collapse and when the SDLP and the asked Unionists have their coalition

government to get collapsed. There will be political differences and

our job is to deliver a programme for government which

we are doing and to go on with delivering our job. Since I came

into post there have been a number of things we have done and the only

thing the Ulster Unionist can provide is advice that I should sell

the city of Derry airport and I do not even own that airport. Let's

take another issue, the legacy issue which is in the news today. At the

top of the agenda, and a weather vane for whether or not consensus

politics is working for the executive, a lawyer for 30 families

killed in some of the most controversial issues of the Troubles

says there is a veto with the DUP over what happens in these cases? He

has a point. Will you ask the same question to Philip Hindes Colum? You

are the government. Fundamentally this is the British government. The

British government have duties here and that is the key to the question.

Your party colleague, Jennifer McCann, says the British government

needs to release the funds for the inquests now and the lawyer for the

families says that the DUP has a veto. Do you agree that the DUP as a

veto? Do I wish the DUP won the same page as my party myself on this

issue then of I do. We have to work on the situation until we get it

resolved. It is the same situation with these two parties opposite and

they will have the same differences as myself and Simon. But there is a

veto. The Lord Chief Justice requested the release of ?10 million

to fund inquests over a five-year period which we saw in the news just

before this programme and Arlene Foster blocked it. That is a veto. I

don't accept the characterisation of it has a veto. What would you call

it? We have to make progress on the past and that has to be as part of a

complete package of progress on the past. Sinn Fein have an issue one

disclosure which they need to thrash out with Her Majesty 's government

and we have made substantial progress on a huge number of

elements and there is a very small amount of issues. Everything has to

be agreed on the total package in the past and we cannot move forward

on bits of the past elements of the past in terms of resolution, we need

to move forward on it all away after that debate and discussion. There is

another example, Simon Hamilton, of a fundamental issue that divides at

the heart of government. Brexit, the Irish language and the 11 plus and

corporation tax. These are issues on which you do not agree.

The differences that you are in government. We know that there are

many things that we disagree on but we are trying to get on with the job

that we got overwhelming mandate is to do. In my case, it is about

bringing in more jobs and end Chris's case it is about

infrastructure. In contrast, the Opposition have done nothing. Let me

bring in Philip Smith. That is where the start of the conversation. --

Philip Smyth?. Let me ask, what about all of these issues. What

about all the issues on which the two a few in the official Opposition

do not agree? We are starting to build that relationship. So are

they. They have had nine years. You were in the government plan. They

have been the two lead parties for nine years, they have a massive

resource at their disposal and basically, Colum Eastwood and my

party, we have about half the salary after new head spin doctor that has

been allocated for Opposition. Those are the game rules, we have a tiny

resource. That is a challenge. When you were in government, Europe

ministers had special advisers as well. This Executive has twice the

number that the Welsh Government has and they have just added the other.

You had your SPADs as well. There is nothing wrong with having a special

adviser, but having twice as many as the Welsh Government is an

extravagance. How do you persuade viewers that you have seriously got

a joined up approach to government that will offer a realistic

alternative to what these individuals, who have huge

differences, but they are trying to work together. It is a difficult

mark for you to head. That is not standard. When my party went into

Opposition, I said we were going to a constructive Opposition, come up

with ideas, in our submission to the consultation, what we put 50 ideas

for bills. We have five bills now. The SDLP has its own mandate and

policies. We stand on our own two feet and we will work closely with

the Ulster Unionists and any other party, but the idea that the

Opposition has to come up with a joint strategy all the time, it does

not happen anywhere else. I want to come back and develop our

conversation but let us get a breather while we look in more

detail at the appointment of David Gordon.

He was hired to promote a new message for the Executive -

but instead, the messenger became the story.

For the past week David Gordon, the former BBC journalist who's

to be the new Press Secretary for Arlene Foster and

Martin McGuinness, has been in the headlines.

So what can the Executive's new man hope to achieve?

Our Political Correspondent, Stephen Walker, has been looking

David Gordon established a reputation for being a tenacious

journalist who asked difficult questions during his time at the

Belfast Telegraph. He moved here to BBC Northern Ireland where he worked

as a producer and editor on the Stephen Nolan radio and television

programmes. It is a big step from these surroundings to the Executive

table but within days, David Gordon will have the ear of the first and

Deputy First Minister is. Last weekend, the newsletter revealed

that the first and Deputy First Minister 's had taken an unusual

step and use the Royal prerogative to create the post of Executive

press secretary. It provoked questions in Stormont and beyond.

The Royal prerogative is not there for you to write legislation to give

someone a job, it is used to enable government

to go to war, not for this. When you have legislation already in place

you should not need to use it to give someone a job, I think that is

most unfortunate. David Gordon has been appointed to offer the minister

's communication advice and the job will put his editorial skills to the

test. There will be issues and crisis is and events he will have to

manage, and that is going to put him under an enormous amount of stress.

It will take him out of his comfort zone but he is very capable and I do

not see that he will not be able to do it. Still a BBC employee, David

Gordon is unable to talk publicly about his new role. Last weekend he

helped to organise a series of talks at Mount Stewart, the speakers

included Jonathan Powell who advise Tony Blair and his talk was on the

new Machiavellian is. He will ask questions and challenge, that should

be in a democracy and it is important that the person answering

those questions does not get into a bunker, they need to remain positive

in communicating their message. Perhaps David Gordon's most obvious

difficulty is how he will serve two political masters, Sinn Fein and the

DUP. One of the difficulties about being a spin doctor, especially, in

Northern Ireland, is that you are having to do it for an Executive

that is itself headed by people of totally opposing views and how you

do this is going to be fantastically challenging to do this. It is all

very well working in the BBC, you do not quite have that range of

problems. Can a new spin doctor really help Arlene Foster and Martin

McGuiness speak with one voice? Where they are going to hit bumps in

the road are on issues like Brexit, which are fundamental political

differences of opinion, where both parties are pulling in different

directions and trying to distil that message into a simple unified

message is going to be tricky. In the months ahead, David Gordon is

clearly going to need more than just editorial skills. Most press jobs in

government are difficult and the cut and thrust and back and forward if

you're in a Coalition and there is not an agreement, this person does

not only have to do a press job, they have to do diplomacy job, I

would imagine. Is it possible to do it with success? If you look at the

last Coalition government between David Cameron and Nick Clegg, the

Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats, of course there will be

tensions, but ultimately, the government lasted five years. The

tone of any message coming out of Stormont Castle will be carefully

watch, last weekend briefing document about his appointment was

issued and it accused some critics of stretching credibility and being

hysterical and said the Opposition showed back users and double

standards. To some, that language went too far. It really did sound

like something from North Korea, in their good days when they were

talking about the South Koreans, it was like Howard are you -- Haidara

you argue with us, you're only doing it for political scoring, it was

very ill tempered. His appointment has been raised in the Stormont

chamber and in a committee hearing, the story is still making headlines.

Soon he will set about selling the message of the Executive, it is a

new chapter for him and his political masters. The inquisitive

outsider who once asked difficult questions, now has to start finding

some answers. Let's hear what my

guests make of that. Colum Eastwood - why

have the opposition parties been so wrong-footed

by the appointment of David Gordon? Wrong-footed? How do you mean? I

think what this means is that the Executive are actually rattled. If

you look at what has happened recently, they have tried to close

down the number of Opposition, close down criticism, they have now got

Stephen Nolan's former producer to be their press secretary. Are they

entitled to go behind the backs of people and use the Royal prerogative

to change the law so that they can appoint someone without anyone

having to go through any kind of interview process? You saw there a

statement. I read it. We have all read it, several times, but the

bottom line is they say this is what happens in politics, it happens in

Dublin and London and all of the world, they get the best possible

advisers. We will have to ask the public. What has happened is that

the opportunity for backbenchers to produce Private members bills has

been closed the Speaker, not the Executive. The Speaker has done it

and it was wrong. It is not the Executive. What has also happened is

if you think last week, matters of the day, we were not allowed... I do

not know why it is happened. If the Speaker is being properly impartial,

it should not happen. You cannot hold the Executive responsible.

Simon was the Finance Minister and he would never have close down the

opportunity for people to question him. What has happened in the last

number of months, Mairtin O Muilleoir would not release details

of finances. You should not expect to see everything that the

government are producing. What is there to hide? Your party and

Philip's party were in government, it was a different arrangement. You

cannot expect to be in Opposition and get all of the papers. You

cannot expect to have it both ways. Why can the media not scrutinise it?

While you save that you need the Opposition and you want them to be

good foot -- but I good job, on the other side you're trying to stuff

them out and when you look at the evidence, the way you tried to

curtail Opposition activities, that seems to hold up. We are not trying

to do that. You cut back the number of Opposition parties. We have not

seen much coherent Opposition. Why did you have to bring in someone

like David Gordon and bring in the Royal prerogative? Why'd you not

appointed through the normal process? Why so desperate to get a

new press secretary? It does not. Ministers use ministerial power.

Ministers use the Royal prerogative. All parties sitting around this

table have exercised in the past. The Royal prerogative is to be used

to take the country to war, not to be used to make a job appointment.

It is a flippant remark. It is used for a lot more than that. Parties

around this table have used it for a lot more than that. I think the

Opposition parties have become transfixed about this. The public do

not care, they want to know about hospitals, roads and schools,

they're not interested. Much ado about nothing as far as David Gordon

is concerned. I think the public want to see better policies, not

more spent and from looking at Stephen's article, the aggressive

attitude from the Executive shows that his expertise more than ever.

The bottom line is, people do not care about spin, they want to see an

improvement in day-to-day lives and the reality is that the Executive is

not delivering. Colum Eastwood, you said on May the 20th, and you and

refreshed SDLP team will hold this government to account, offer

constructive criticism and offer a progressive alternative to

government, when will that start? There was a consultation about the

programme for government. We put in a very substantial response. We

offered 50 ideas for bills that the government can take up. We have five

private members bills going forward, things like housing, Irish language,

myself an economic fairness, gender equality, marriage equality and

other ideas, we are putting forward lots of ideas and want to sue the

government take that up. The government have put forward one

bill. A final word. You had ?1 billion black hole in your

manifesto. No we did not. Are you going to clear everyone's credit

cards? You're telling us to sell the city of Derry airport and we do not

own that. When did I tell you that? There are sharing policies. The

Ulster Unionists is telling us to sell things we do not own. I would

welcome a constructive Opposition but we need to start seeing it. We

are seeing now. We are bringing the issues that the government do not

want to talk about. I guess on Monday we will see if it lives up to

its billing an Opposition Day, the first Opposition Day of the new

term. Let's hear what tonight's

commentators make of that. Let's hear from Newton Emerson

and Deirdre Heenan. Good to see you both. Let us talk

about Opposition. A very interesting conversation. To see much evidence

of a joined up approach in Opposition terms by the Ulster

Unionists. Not to date. Most people broadly welcomed the idea of an

Opposition. The idea that the Opposition could bring coherence,

Shine a light into the lack of delivery of government and we have

not seen that yet. It is quite clear that Sinn Fein and the DUP have

signed a nonaggression pact. Things that to date would have brought them

into conflict, such as their ideas around Brexit, Nam, they are

presenting this united front and I think there are opportunities for

the Opposition to talk about the general broad scope ideas around

health, education, run the economy and we are not saying the have to

set aside their differences, but we do need coherence.

The reality is that the opposition and the executive are both divided

on key issues. It has been said that it is not necessary for opposition

parties to be united to scrutinise the government but the opposition

has to be a credible alternative government and in our system that

means a national and Unionist party so they have two ultimately work

towards a common platform. With five years to go do we need to worry

about that just yet? They do need to start working towards that and we

would soon need to see some effort of prospective coalition building,

no power-sharing, if you like, they need to start looking like an

alternative to the DUP and Sinn Fein or they will just be carping on the

sidelines. The executive is very vulnerable to that. They are very

touchy to criticism for two parties that are in control. The opposition

should be viewed as positive, putting forward alternative ideas,

and we haven't had a sense of that yet. We have had the programme for

government but where is the alternative to that from the

opposition? What are they putting forward on what other priorities and

what are they saying about Brexit and health and the economy? There

isn't a cavalier in some there should be. It is no accident that

most parliamentary democracies have an opposition because they are there

to scrutinise and hold them to account and they are there for

transparency which is what most people want to see. We should be

squeamish about the opposition parties working together, they will

have to work together if there is any perspective changing government

so they need to start building the joint platform. Ultimately the

people who will benefit will be the electorate who will begin to see

progress on CB blast the questions that they want asked. And also just

have the idea that the government could actually change at some point

in the future. It is not just about policies, it is about delivery,

people want to see strategies that they have been promised a year on

year on year and it is nine years later and we are still waiting on

these things. There was always a temptation from an opposition to

just sit back and wait for events to trip up the government. Already

there have been quite a few events that have been quite difficult for

the DUP and Sinn Fein. This is not like Westminster where eventually

the electorate will get sick of the party in power and switch to another

one. Because of the power-sharing system and the divided society we

don't have that kind of pendulum to rely on. For the opposition there

was a golden opportunity to come together and say, what are they

saying Northern Ireland need to be pushing for in terms of the

negotiations around Brexit. What are their ideas and the red lines from

Northern Ireland? We need a policy document, we don't have to agree on

everything but there are headline issue is whether must be some

coherence. A final point is that challenge for parties, especially

the opposition party is that the assembly will get smaller at the

next election Fianna Fail says it will fight the election here as

well. There will be Westminster boundary changes and all of the

parties are being squeezed and no party is being squeezed more than

the SDLP and the Ulster Unionists. As the assembly gets smaller it

appears that will hit the smaller parties worst and they are running

out of time. When you said they have five years to present alternative

platform for government, it is a bit more urgent than that. Just a quick

final word about the appointment of David Gordon. The interesting thing

was the response from the government itself, it was arrogant and

high-handed and at a time when trust seems to be at an all-time low in

terms of politics and institutions it was just entirely the wrong note.

It is not just the mechanism of the appointment, the new job is a bit

unorthodox with a non-civil servant appearing to replace a civil

servant. Interesting times. That's it from The View

for this week. Join me for Sunday Politics

at 11.35am here on BBC One. And in a week when the big news

was all about a would-be spin doctor who reluctantly became the story,

we were reminded of a similar moment in the life of the plain-speaking

Malcolm Tucker. Earthy language and all! Have you

seen this? No, I haven't seen that, I am the senior press guide for the

government of Great Britain, ie do not look at the newspapers, that is

news to me. What are we doing? We are doing nothing, I am not the

story here! You kind of the story, they spelt your name and everything.

I am not doing nothing, I am not drawing attention to it. You are

drawing my attention to it! Stop looking at it! All right, send all

the