Browse content similar to 26/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Day one of the election campaign proper and already a major skirmish. | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
One of the most senior legal figures in Northern Ireland takes | :00:07. | :00:18. | |
on Conservative and Unionist criticism over his impartiality - | :00:19. | :00:20. | |
Legacy is back in the headlines and in a big way - | :00:21. | :00:40. | |
are prosecutions of soldiers a witch hunt or long delayed justice? | :00:41. | :00:56. | |
Has this pushed back even further dealing with the past? | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
Plus, it'll be just ten months from the last one - | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
so who's in the market for a new election? | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
I will not be voting again, they are not worth voting for. | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
Also tonight, after Ian Paisley said many people were further down | :01:11. | :01:13. | |
the road to reconciliation than the politicians, | :01:14. | :01:15. | |
I'll be talking to two men who've been a witness to that | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
And one week in office, we've Donald Trump as you've | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
And in better voice - hopefully - our commentators | :01:22. | :01:34. | |
Ex-soldiers will march on Westminster tomorrow | :01:35. | :01:42. | |
in their continuing campaign against being prosecuted | :01:43. | :01:50. | |
It's escalated to such an extent that one of the most | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
senior legal figures here, the Director of Public Prosecutions, | :01:55. | :01:56. | |
Barra McGrory, has hit back at critics who say | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
Joining me now are the DUP's Sir Jeffrey Donaldson | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
Barra McGrory has been defending himself against those charges | :02:03. | :02:08. | |
made against him today - but tonight your party | :02:09. | :02:10. | |
leader has again claimed the prosecution of soldiers | :02:11. | :02:12. | |
It looks like the DPP has become collateral damage | :02:13. | :02:20. | |
in the early stages of this brutal election campaign. | :02:21. | :02:31. | |
This is an issue that is gathering momentum at Westminster. A | :02:32. | :02:46. | |
across-the-board, not just for those interested in Northern Ireland | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
politics. But it has dragged Barra McGrory into it, it has become | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
toxic, the Director of Public Prosecutions has been pulled into | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
the NT is not happy. It was the BBC who went to interview him, the | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
political parties. In terms of the problem that we have, this is a | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
symptom of the problem. I think we need to understand what the problem | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
is. We have a system at the moment that is not fair. We have a system | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
that is focused almost entirely on what the state does. Barra McGrory | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
can only take decisions based on files presented to him and someone | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
is preparing those files and it is not the Director of Public | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
Prosecutions, it is the PSNI, they are legacy investigation unit, which | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
is almost entirely dedicated, despite the fact there are 3000 | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
unsolved murders, over 90% of those killings were carried out by Carolus | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
paramilitaries, despite that, over 90% of the resources available to | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
the PSNI legacy investigation unit is going towards investigating what | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
the States did. That is the problem. Last December we heard from the | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
Assistant Chief Constable but on the prosecution of soldiers there is no | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
witchhunt, nor specific human, he said he is simply fulfilling his | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
stature to the rule to investigate all deaths duelling the Troubles. I | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
have to challenge that. You do not believe him rich and Mark I have | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
investigated this. We have asked questions at the Policing Board. Let | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
us be clear. The moment most of the resources of the units that were | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
referred to, the legacy investigation Branch, it is going | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
towards investigating what's the state did. Let me ask the PSNI, who | :04:32. | :04:40. | |
is investigating bloody Friday? None of their resources are investigating | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
those atrocities. I am entitled to ask the question why. Why the focus | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
on what the state did. I will bring Gerry Kelly in but stick with such | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
you have moved the conversation away from Anna McCrory, are you | :04:54. | :05:01. | |
suggesting that you are happy with the way he conducts himself? -- from | :05:02. | :05:08. | |
Barra McGrory. Barra McGrory and his team, that file has been compiled | :05:09. | :05:15. | |
after investigation, they are not responsible. But there has been | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
criticism is directed against the Director of Public Prosecutions, he | :05:22. | :05:23. | |
said his integrity has been questioned, it is not clear to him | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
and his staff, are you saying you are no prepared to give your | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
unequivocal support to Barra McGrory as DPP? My criticism is not elected | :05:32. | :05:39. | |
towards the DPP. Does he have your complete support? I will answer the | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
question the way I want to do. It is this. I am clear. The problem is | :05:46. | :05:53. | |
that the cases against soldiers are not being investigated by Barra | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
McGrory or the DPP. You have said that. We need to understand this. He | :05:58. | :06:04. | |
has to take the decision based on an investigation, a police | :06:05. | :06:06. | |
investigation, whether this to be a prosecution. He has two criteria. Is | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
it in the public interest? Is there sufficient evidence? I do not see | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
the file therefore I cannot second-guess what the public | :06:18. | :06:24. | |
prosecutor does and does not know. The DUP and others have started an | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
attack on the DPP. I am glad he is pulling away from that. These | :06:32. | :06:40. | |
attacks work on the basis that he had defended Republicans. As he said | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
he had defended Republicans, Unionists, loyalists, all types, | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
which is the duty of any lawyer anyway. And should I take the | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
position that because he defended loyalists, or Unionists members of | :06:56. | :07:02. | |
the DUP and UUP that he is biased? That is ludicrous. They were in the | :07:03. | :07:10. | |
wrong. Now they have shifted onto a different thing, they want to shift | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
the blame someone else. Barra McGrory has your complete support of | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
his role as Director of Public Prosecutions, do you accept that | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
this looks to Unionists like another example of what they see as a | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
one-sided process where the physical opponents are attempting to be right | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
things? Nobody asked what was her view. Hiding behind other people's | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
perception does not cut it. If you are a politician you must lead as | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
well. Let me deal with proportionality, the proportionality | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
that has been brought up many times, and I noticed that as soon as the | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
election was caused -- calls, to try and move away from the scandal | :07:56. | :08:08. | |
within RHI and, they went to this issue. Proportionality, let us deal | :08:09. | :08:23. | |
with it. In terms of the number of British soldiers who have been | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
convicted over the last 40 years, I can remember for. Only four. Lee | :08:27. | :08:35. | |
Clegg was found guilty of murder, he did 22 months, sorry, Ian Clegg did | :08:36. | :08:48. | |
37 months. Somebody else did 22 months. All were brought back into | :08:49. | :09:00. | |
the British Army. Is that the way the British deal with justice? Does | :09:01. | :09:10. | |
that look one-sided to you? He is complaining about soldiers being in | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
for a limited amount of time. Let me remind you, the man who exploded a | :09:14. | :09:19. | |
bomb on the Shankill Road and murdered I believe seven innocent | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
people on that occasion, was convicted of seven life sentences, | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
and he was released after a much less period, it was made lace, and | :09:29. | :09:34. | |
he served seven years in prison, which is less than one year for each | :09:35. | :09:42. | |
life that he destroyed. Why was he released? Because of a deal that was | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
done and an Agreement that I post for that very reason. He was | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
released as part of a political settlement which the majority of | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
politicians and people in this country supported. People will be | :09:55. | :10:01. | |
dismayed about the two of you trading insults and examples across | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
the table. We are answering your questions. It was DUP that raise the | :10:09. | :10:16. | |
issue of proportionality. Let us deal with that yet again. An | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
estimate of 20,000 Republicans have gone through jail, they have done | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
100,000 years in jail. If you want to talk about proportionality, talk | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
about it. Unionists are concerned, I have heard this on the radio, | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
Republicans are keen on getting 100% transparency in relation to the 10% | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
of killings carried out by state forces, not so keen on complete | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
transparency for the 60% of Republican related killings. There | :10:45. | :10:47. | |
you go again with the 10%, if you deal with the over 300 deaths by | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
state forces, add to that will prove collusion, which brings the number | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
over 1000, even though 90% is a nonsense. Let us adjust the figures. | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
If you are concerned about 100% chance and see in a mission to 40% | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
of killings, the point remains the same, you are not so keen on the | :11:08. | :11:15. | |
other percentage. We have been through a number of negotiations in | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
the Stormont House Agreement and in fresh start. The architecture was | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
set up to deal with this right across the board. Most victims and | :11:24. | :11:32. | |
survivors want truth, -- want the truth, some want more. If you want | :11:33. | :11:40. | |
to deal with legacy, proportionality, there is over 50 | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
legacy cases, some of them over 40 years old, the Lord Chief Justice, | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
not a politician, maybe he will get attacked next, he said he could sort | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
it out in five years, the DUP and the British Government will not hand | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
out this small amount of money which will allow justice to be done. How | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
did you respond? Let me be clear, I have never attacked the DPP or any | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
of the judicial system. The problem is... A lot of politicians have. I | :12:08. | :12:17. | |
am the person who reads the DUP team in dealing with legacy issues, we | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
reached the Stormont House Agreement and we stand by that and the | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
Stormont House Agreement made provision, and we want to implement | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
that, but you will not allow it to be implemented, over issues related | :12:29. | :12:32. | |
to national security. We are ready to implement this Agreement is | :12:33. | :12:34. | |
tomorrow and that is the way forward. People out there want to | :12:35. | :12:39. | |
hear about how we are going to resolve this issue. Let me speak. | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
The legacy case set outside that, to allow the money to go ahead, at | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
least get something that works. Address that point. I am sorry but | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
we are not going to allow a one-sided process to continue to be | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
even more one-sided. That is not on. Tell that to the actual victims and | :13:00. | :13:13. | |
families. Tell that... You are on the other side of the fence to the | :13:14. | :13:18. | |
Lord Chief Justice? He has set down his view of how this matter could be | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
dealt with as expeditiously as possible and you disagree? No. You | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
still blocked the proposal. You cannot create a hierarchy of | :13:29. | :13:37. | |
victims, where a certain element gets priority. The rest of the | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
victims are ignored. That is what has happened. He says you are trying | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
to put members of the British Army above the law? No. There has to be a | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
level playing field, the moment there isn't. You would be happy for | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
the soldiers to be prosecuted if other people were prosecuted as | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
well? I believe nobody is above the law. Would you be happy for them to | :14:02. | :14:09. | |
be prosecuted in certain certain -- circumstances, or never at all? | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
Should they ever be prosecuted? I'm going to deal with that. It is a | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
simple question. Are there any circumstances in which there are | :14:19. | :14:26. | |
soldiers should be prosecuted? Era nobody is above the law. If they are | :14:27. | :14:29. | |
guilty of murder... You don't know unless they have been prosecuted? If | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
they are being accused, the law has to take its course. Should they be | :14:35. | :14:41. | |
prosecuted in those circumstances? I am coming to that. Please do. Well | :14:42. | :14:49. | |
if you let me answer... I've had to ask you six times. We have had an | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
anomaly in the agreement, if a soldier is convicted of murder, he | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
does not benefit under the early release programme that is available | :14:59. | :15:03. | |
to terrorist prisoners. I think that has to be dealt with. I think we | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
have to look at all options here. That might include a statute of | :15:09. | :15:11. | |
limitations. You can't apply the same criteria to soldiers as you do | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
to terrorists because the criteria requires you to support an illegal | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
organisation. There are circumstances which might meet your | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
approval, where they could be prosecuted? And certain | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
circumstances where they are not prosecuted. That is the point I'm | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
trying to make. The problem at the moment is that soldiers are not | :15:34. | :15:36. | |
covered by the provisions of the agreement. That is unfair. I | :15:37. | :15:43. | |
remember this, I was in the house of Jean McBride, the mother of Peter | :15:44. | :15:52. | |
McBride, killed by Fisher and Wright. Mo Mowlam gave a guaranteed | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
it would be dealt with like anybody else. Within weeks, she released | :15:57. | :16:03. | |
them on the basis that she did not want British troops connected to... | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
A simple question, you have said that you support Barry McGrory and | :16:08. | :16:13. | |
acted in a fair and evenhanded way. There were many Republican killings | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
were those responsible were not brought towards the courts. Would | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
you be happy to see IRA men brought to the courts if fresh evidence came | :16:21. | :16:28. | |
to light to enable prosecutions? Under Section 32, the PMS I are | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
still investigating all of those issues. -- PSNI. And if it came | :16:32. | :16:44. | |
forward, they would be prosecuted. Do you agree with that? It would | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
take its course. Will you answer that? Everybody under the law. I | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
accept that. It would be uncomfortable for you? I am just | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
clarifying. It would not be uncomfortable for me. Here is the | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
issue, Sinn Fein's decision, from the start, has been the truth | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
commission. It was the Unionists that refuse to go for that. The | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
compromise was the architecture we are talking about. How would it be | :17:13. | :17:19. | |
possible when the IRA doesn't technically exist? The people exist. | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
The people that say they weren't in it! Former members of the IRA take | :17:24. | :17:32. | |
part in truth recovery? Ask him if the UDR would come forward. Would | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
you can forward? I have already said, if I am asked to come forward, | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
I would come forward. Do you think that others in the IRA would? Those | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
people have to deal with that. The point you made was that it does not | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
exist, the people exist. I used to be in the IRA and I still exist. | :17:52. | :17:59. | |
Very quickly. What has happened here is that they do not want any state | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
forces to be prosecuted or even to come forward with the truth. That is | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
what it's about. Not necessarily the case that people would agree with | :18:13. | :18:14. | |
you, but thank you for that. The Assembly election campaign got | :18:15. | :18:15. | |
under way formally today and it's The big question, though, | :18:16. | :18:17. | |
is will voters be mobilised by the Renewable Heating scandal | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
or will they be turned off by the political bickering and yet | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
another Stormont shutdown? Enda McClafferty has been | :18:25. | :18:26. | |
testing opinion in some of the constituencies | :18:27. | :18:28. | |
with the lowest turnout last time, Make no mistake about it, politics | :18:29. | :18:47. | |
right now in places like Kilroy is a hard sell. Just look at the response | :18:48. | :18:57. | |
to this question. If anybody's going to vote in the next election, please | :18:58. | :19:04. | |
raise your hand. No hands went up. Hardly surprising, in a constituency | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
where half the electorate didn't bother to vote in the last assembly | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
election. Eight months on, and there is clearly no appetite for another | :19:13. | :19:16. | |
vote. I don't think I'll be voting again. They are not worth voting | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
for. I think we are all worn down. How far are we from the last | :19:23. | :19:27. | |
election, really? Did you vote last time? I did, but not this time. No | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
more. Enough is enough. I don't think we need another election. It's | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
not time for us not to have government in place. Agriculture is | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
in crisis, education, health, everywhere we looked, problems and | :19:45. | :19:47. | |
infrastructure across the board. This will be an assembly election | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
like no other. The numbers will be very different. Of the 108 assembly | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
members leaving Stormont this week, only 90 will be returning. 18 will | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
be out of a job. But that is only part of the picture. A more | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
important figure might be the percentage turnout. The figures show | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
a growing number of voters here are slowly turning their back on | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
politics. Over the past 19 years, the percentage turnout in assembly | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
elections dropped by 15%. So, the parties have a lot to consider. Last | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
time round, we had five constituencies which recorded 50% or | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
less. Only one constituency recorded over 64%. There is a question | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
whether or not the nonvoters will be galvanised, or whether the trend of | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
a decreasing turnout will apply this time round as well. People that have | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
been voting on having called the hard-core in each party. But the | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
centre ground has just faded away from voting. Do you think we might | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
lose some big hitters in this? You have one seat less, a number of | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
large names might fall. It's a question of fighting, really, within | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
parties, rather than between parties for seats. The heart of West Tyrone, | :21:01. | :21:09. | |
59% of voters turned out here last time. But the mood is very different | :21:10. | :21:16. | |
now. Stormont, on television, sometimes, it is going across the | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
whole world, what we like? Fighting, squabbling and squabbling. Where is | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
it going to end? I'm disgusted at politics, I really am. I think there | :21:26. | :21:33. | |
will be a bigger turnout this time. Why? Because of the situation. There | :21:34. | :21:41. | |
are some facts they still need to be letting on to people that was going | :21:42. | :21:48. | |
on when they were in power. These students at the Northwest Institute | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
were among the 56% who voted in the constituency last time. Our young | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
people tuned in to what is happening at Stormont, or are they | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
disillusioned with politics? It is frustrating that people seem to vote | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
for the same people over and over again, and they keep doing the same | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
thing. They can't seem to agree. I don't think young people realise | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
there is an alternative. People are angry, already, people go and have | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
their say, people that have never voted before I going to vote. Moobs | :22:22. | :22:29. | |
people I know don't care. -- most people I know. Stormont does not do | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
anything to help the youth. Education is always the first thing | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
cut. Dislodging the old guard at Stormont will not be easy. Don't | :22:38. | :22:43. | |
expect any fresh faces. What we can expect is lots of political wheeling | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
and dealing, maybe the prospect of another election beyond March the | :22:48. | :22:49. | |
2nd. Enda McClafferty there, | :22:50. | :22:50. | |
listening to the views of people Now, we're not normally big | :22:51. | :22:52. | |
on patting ourselves on the back, but last week's programme did | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
get people talking. Ian Paisley's thank | :22:57. | :22:58. | |
you to Martin McGuinness And here's something else that | :22:59. | :22:59. | |
caught many people's attention too - when I asked Mr Paisley about how | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
other unionists might thoughts on Mr McGuinness's | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
contribution. Do you think other Unionists, some | :23:11. | :23:22. | |
of them don't understand it? I don't think it is necessary for Ian | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
Paisley or any Unionists to sit on a show like this and qualify every | :23:28. | :23:34. | |
comment with the fact, I'm a Protestant, think something | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
different to the cassock beside me, I am a Unionists I think something | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
different to the Republican beside me. We have to Dennis Praet we are | :23:45. | :23:52. | |
beyond that. Dashed to the Catholic but beside me. | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
Well, the Reverend Steve Stockman and Father Martin Magill launched | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
the Four Corners Festival five years ago to encourage people out | :24:00. | :24:01. | |
of their comfort zones in the city of Belfast. | :24:02. | :24:08. | |
The comments must have been like mana from heaven. But then it was | :24:09. | :24:14. | |
like business as usual? That was remarkable. Tonight we have had | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
white noise again. I am looking for the politician making me stop and | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
think, did he really say that? Ian Paisley did that. Everybody has | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
conspiracy theories about why he said it. It has been a conversation | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
starter all week long. Everybody was talking about it. I don't know how | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
many reviews and treats you have had, but it has been a remarkable | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
change in tone, even in the conversations in the street. It was | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
the biggest viewing audience ever in four and a half years. It caught | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
public attention. The question is, does it make a difference, does it | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
help reframe the political debate at the beginning of a brutal election | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
campaign? I think it does. Taking the likes of social media, last | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
week, following it on Facebook and Twitter, the enormous response. It | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
is still a talking point. To some extent, it gives us an opportunity | :25:17. | :25:25. | |
to build on that. The article on Grace, another talking point. I am | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
detecting a real sea change. I am very much aware, that we would not | :25:29. | :25:39. | |
be able to take the matter have some of the conversations we are having. | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
I think things have changed. It seems there are two parallel | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
conversations going on, what you have described as white noise, where | :25:47. | :25:49. | |
politicians talk at each other, and the other one, perhaps not in front | :25:50. | :25:56. | |
of television cameras quite so much, they do not come out with the | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
chestnuts that we are used to seeing on television studios, on the radio. | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
What do you think you can do about that? If there is a public appetite | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
for change, how do you deliver that? I have talked to a lot of | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
politicians. I am amazed when I talk to them, privately when we have | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
spoken at Four Corners, these are people that want to bring change to | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
society. They get in of cameras, they play their party line, and you | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
go, what happened there? They say they have a mandate? That is the | :26:33. | :26:42. | |
problem we all have. 45% didn't vote the last time. We are expecting | :26:43. | :26:49. | |
peace and reconciliation to drip down from the hill, it has to creep | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
up. We have to give collateral to the people on the hill. They are | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
trying to find out how they can get the vote out for the election, what | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
can they say to get people out of their seats to vote? If 45% are | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
apathetic, they are not going to vote. If they say, this is what we | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
are going to do for you, there is a change in the groundswell. A | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
politician said to me, leaving an event, I have just got to be more | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
courageous. I thought we could make him more courageous if we were | :27:22. | :27:23. | |
prepared to change the conversation and maybe more people vote for the | :27:24. | :27:30. | |
things we want to vote for. Reconciliation should be higher. We | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
should be thinking about the future more than the past. The politicians | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
on the Hill need to looking over their shoulder. Politicians at | :27:40. | :27:46. | |
election time think they have to deliver a message that the public | :27:47. | :27:48. | |
wants to hear. That is what they think will get them votes. They say | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
if you don't vote for me, you will get the other fellow, and you don't | :27:53. | :27:56. | |
want him, you want me, so you've got to just vote the ticket. You got to | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
do what you got to do. Even if you might be tempted to do something | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
different, you'd better not risk it? The likes of next week, and we will | :28:05. | :28:15. | |
hear from a representative of the University later, I was talking to | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
some young people from the students union, and I am hearing a sense of, | :28:20. | :28:27. | |
we do not want an orange and Green approach this time around. We are | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
tired of it. There is anger and frustration at it. If that was the | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
case more people would thought for other parties, more people would go | :28:36. | :28:42. | |
and vote, but they do not. One of the contributors docs about | :28:43. | :28:50. | |
squabbling and squabbling. With all respect to the previous contributors | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
who work life year, there were a few moments where I thought it was quite | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
helpful conversation, but really it was a turn off. Some of the youngest | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
members of the last Assembly were those who came out with the least | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
reconstructed contributions, it is not as if that is... I listen to | :29:07. | :29:16. | |
them every Monday and Tuesday, there was not much clear blue thinking | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
going on. You said earlier, what they portray to the public, they are | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
not going to the public, they are going to their constituency. Somehow | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
this other groundswell that wants change has to say there is a | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
constituency and you are not coming to our constituency, and if we | :29:35. | :29:36. | |
decide to vote for other parties, there will have to be a change from | :29:37. | :29:44. | |
the ground rather than the top. In terms of reconciliation we need to | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
be saying that louder and making it clear to our politicians, enough of | :29:49. | :29:51. | |
the beckoning of the past. Stay with us. | :29:52. | :29:53. | |
Let's bring in our commentators at this stage - | :29:54. | :29:55. | |
I suppose there is a disconnect between what you are saying and what | :29:56. | :30:06. | |
happens on polling day when people decide they want to fall along | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
tribal lines, they might be saying we are tired, we cannot stand the | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
beckoning, and people dancing around issues, and what they were saying | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
depended on their perspective, and it is hard to see a meeting of | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
minds. The reality is, not what you are saying is wrong, but when people | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
thought they still vote along tribal lines and they are still voting to | :30:29. | :30:36. | |
keep people out. Tonight we heard a lot, and the warm glow that we heard | :30:37. | :30:42. | |
last week 's forgotten about. So how do you shift away from the debates | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
of the past and engage with the 45% of people who do not bother or | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
cannot bring themselves to vote, how do you turn that around? We need to | :30:52. | :30:59. | |
get away from this wishy-washy situation, people should not be | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
afraid to see a side is in the wrong, and the missing element is | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
that Unionism has a particular problem with giving that hardliners. | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
That is not necessarily a harsh criticism of Unionism. It is less | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
inextricably linked. Talking about looking over their shoulders. Maybe | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
it has a harder time to control them but that spends more time looking | :31:24. | :31:27. | |
over its shoulder even what it is looking at shrink state to small | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
numbers like a caravan full of people. Even after years of that | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
there was not a single Unionist leaders who was prepared to lead | :31:36. | :31:41. | |
those people or just leave them, that is a fundamental problem and | :31:42. | :31:44. | |
that keeps society unbalance and needs to be addressed. What you are | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
saying is we are lacking bold leadership. People are who -- people | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
who will see this is not the way we want to move forward. The focus is | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
always on the past. The conversation earlier was legacy issues, and it is | :32:00. | :32:02. | |
toxic, and if we cannot deal with the past, we were told in the fresh | :32:03. | :32:11. | |
start that they were moving forward. The Secretary of State said he was | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
biting his ideas out to consultation. The justice minister | :32:16. | :32:18. | |
said she was hopeful. Nothing happened. Gerry Kelly can see, yes, | :32:19. | :32:26. | |
and be part of truth and reconciliation, politicians know | :32:27. | :32:29. | |
there will not be a truth and reconciliation Commission because | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
there are things that neither Unionists, Republicans, nor | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
Westminster wants to come out. We have talked about a lot of people | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
engaged with last week's programme. People at the table tonight have | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
said, you have said, people were coming up on the street talking | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
about what Ian Paisley said last week. We struck a chord and people | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
were pleased. They said that is what we need to hear. Jeffrey Donaldson | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
Kemen tonight and it was as if he had not seen at interview because | :32:58. | :33:00. | |
there was no sense whatsoever that he was bringing into his comments | :33:01. | :33:06. | |
any elements of what Ian Paisley said, or the note that Ian Paisley | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
tried to strike on the programme. Ironically, Jeffrey Donaldson and | :33:11. | :33:22. | |
Gerry Kelly get on well having worked on reconciliation projects | :33:23. | :33:24. | |
abroad, they just need to bring that home with them. And warmly welcomed | :33:25. | :33:31. | |
in every constituency apart from the DUP who did not warmly welcome those | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
comments. How would you deal with legacy? Giving people the power to | :33:35. | :33:45. | |
tell the story. We have two great member a lot of people who are | :33:46. | :33:48. | |
living with the past on a daily basis have not got justice or other | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
things also. We need to leave it there. | :33:55. | :33:55. | |
That's it from The View for this week. | :33:56. | :33:56. | |
Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.25 here on BBC One. | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
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To start with, he's one of the few US Presidents not | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
Raise your right hand and repeat after me. I Donaldson Trump do | :34:06. | :34:30. | |
solemnly swear. Back that I will faithfully execute. The office of | :34:31. | :34:36. | |
President of the United States. And we'll do the best of my ability. And | :34:37. | :34:43. | |
will to the best of my ability. Preserve, protect and defend. | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
Preserve protect and defend. The Constitution of the United States. | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
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