26/01/2017 The View


26/01/2017

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 26/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Day one of the election campaign proper and already a major skirmish.

:00:00.:00:00.

One of the most senior legal figures in Northern Ireland takes

:00:07.:00:18.

on Conservative and Unionist criticism over his impartiality -

:00:19.:00:20.

Legacy is back in the headlines and in a big way -

:00:21.:00:40.

are prosecutions of soldiers a witch hunt or long delayed justice?

:00:41.:00:56.

Has this pushed back even further dealing with the past?

:00:57.:00:59.

Plus, it'll be just ten months from the last one -

:01:00.:01:02.

so who's in the market for a new election?

:01:03.:01:06.

I will not be voting again, they are not worth voting for.

:01:07.:01:10.

Also tonight, after Ian Paisley said many people were further down

:01:11.:01:13.

the road to reconciliation than the politicians,

:01:14.:01:15.

I'll be talking to two men who've been a witness to that

:01:16.:01:18.

And one week in office, we've Donald Trump as you've

:01:19.:01:21.

And in better voice - hopefully - our commentators

:01:22.:01:34.

Ex-soldiers will march on Westminster tomorrow

:01:35.:01:42.

in their continuing campaign against being prosecuted

:01:43.:01:50.

It's escalated to such an extent that one of the most

:01:51.:01:54.

senior legal figures here, the Director of Public Prosecutions,

:01:55.:01:56.

Barra McGrory, has hit back at critics who say

:01:57.:01:59.

Joining me now are the DUP's Sir Jeffrey Donaldson

:02:00.:02:02.

Barra McGrory has been defending himself against those charges

:02:03.:02:08.

made against him today - but tonight your party

:02:09.:02:10.

leader has again claimed the prosecution of soldiers

:02:11.:02:12.

It looks like the DPP has become collateral damage

:02:13.:02:20.

in the early stages of this brutal election campaign.

:02:21.:02:31.

This is an issue that is gathering momentum at Westminster. A

:02:32.:02:46.

across-the-board, not just for those interested in Northern Ireland

:02:47.:02:49.

politics. But it has dragged Barra McGrory into it, it has become

:02:50.:02:53.

toxic, the Director of Public Prosecutions has been pulled into

:02:54.:02:57.

the NT is not happy. It was the BBC who went to interview him, the

:02:58.:03:02.

political parties. In terms of the problem that we have, this is a

:03:03.:03:07.

symptom of the problem. I think we need to understand what the problem

:03:08.:03:11.

is. We have a system at the moment that is not fair. We have a system

:03:12.:03:15.

that is focused almost entirely on what the state does. Barra McGrory

:03:16.:03:21.

can only take decisions based on files presented to him and someone

:03:22.:03:25.

is preparing those files and it is not the Director of Public

:03:26.:03:30.

Prosecutions, it is the PSNI, they are legacy investigation unit, which

:03:31.:03:34.

is almost entirely dedicated, despite the fact there are 3000

:03:35.:03:39.

unsolved murders, over 90% of those killings were carried out by Carolus

:03:40.:03:44.

paramilitaries, despite that, over 90% of the resources available to

:03:45.:03:49.

the PSNI legacy investigation unit is going towards investigating what

:03:50.:03:53.

the States did. That is the problem. Last December we heard from the

:03:54.:03:58.

Assistant Chief Constable but on the prosecution of soldiers there is no

:03:59.:04:03.

witchhunt, nor specific human, he said he is simply fulfilling his

:04:04.:04:07.

stature to the rule to investigate all deaths duelling the Troubles. I

:04:08.:04:10.

have to challenge that. You do not believe him rich and Mark I have

:04:11.:04:17.

investigated this. We have asked questions at the Policing Board. Let

:04:18.:04:24.

us be clear. The moment most of the resources of the units that were

:04:25.:04:28.

referred to, the legacy investigation Branch, it is going

:04:29.:04:31.

towards investigating what's the state did. Let me ask the PSNI, who

:04:32.:04:40.

is investigating bloody Friday? None of their resources are investigating

:04:41.:04:43.

those atrocities. I am entitled to ask the question why. Why the focus

:04:44.:04:50.

on what the state did. I will bring Gerry Kelly in but stick with such

:04:51.:04:53.

you have moved the conversation away from Anna McCrory, are you

:04:54.:05:01.

suggesting that you are happy with the way he conducts himself? -- from

:05:02.:05:08.

Barra McGrory. Barra McGrory and his team, that file has been compiled

:05:09.:05:15.

after investigation, they are not responsible. But there has been

:05:16.:05:21.

criticism is directed against the Director of Public Prosecutions, he

:05:22.:05:23.

said his integrity has been questioned, it is not clear to him

:05:24.:05:27.

and his staff, are you saying you are no prepared to give your

:05:28.:05:31.

unequivocal support to Barra McGrory as DPP? My criticism is not elected

:05:32.:05:39.

towards the DPP. Does he have your complete support? I will answer the

:05:40.:05:45.

question the way I want to do. It is this. I am clear. The problem is

:05:46.:05:53.

that the cases against soldiers are not being investigated by Barra

:05:54.:05:57.

McGrory or the DPP. You have said that. We need to understand this. He

:05:58.:06:04.

has to take the decision based on an investigation, a police

:06:05.:06:06.

investigation, whether this to be a prosecution. He has two criteria. Is

:06:07.:06:13.

it in the public interest? Is there sufficient evidence? I do not see

:06:14.:06:17.

the file therefore I cannot second-guess what the public

:06:18.:06:24.

prosecutor does and does not know. The DUP and others have started an

:06:25.:06:31.

attack on the DPP. I am glad he is pulling away from that. These

:06:32.:06:40.

attacks work on the basis that he had defended Republicans. As he said

:06:41.:06:46.

he had defended Republicans, Unionists, loyalists, all types,

:06:47.:06:49.

which is the duty of any lawyer anyway. And should I take the

:06:50.:06:55.

position that because he defended loyalists, or Unionists members of

:06:56.:07:02.

the DUP and UUP that he is biased? That is ludicrous. They were in the

:07:03.:07:10.

wrong. Now they have shifted onto a different thing, they want to shift

:07:11.:07:16.

the blame someone else. Barra McGrory has your complete support of

:07:17.:07:20.

his role as Director of Public Prosecutions, do you accept that

:07:21.:07:24.

this looks to Unionists like another example of what they see as a

:07:25.:07:29.

one-sided process where the physical opponents are attempting to be right

:07:30.:07:35.

things? Nobody asked what was her view. Hiding behind other people's

:07:36.:07:42.

perception does not cut it. If you are a politician you must lead as

:07:43.:07:47.

well. Let me deal with proportionality, the proportionality

:07:48.:07:50.

that has been brought up many times, and I noticed that as soon as the

:07:51.:07:55.

election was caused -- calls, to try and move away from the scandal

:07:56.:08:08.

within RHI and, they went to this issue. Proportionality, let us deal

:08:09.:08:23.

with it. In terms of the number of British soldiers who have been

:08:24.:08:26.

convicted over the last 40 years, I can remember for. Only four. Lee

:08:27.:08:35.

Clegg was found guilty of murder, he did 22 months, sorry, Ian Clegg did

:08:36.:08:48.

37 months. Somebody else did 22 months. All were brought back into

:08:49.:09:00.

the British Army. Is that the way the British deal with justice? Does

:09:01.:09:10.

that look one-sided to you? He is complaining about soldiers being in

:09:11.:09:13.

for a limited amount of time. Let me remind you, the man who exploded a

:09:14.:09:19.

bomb on the Shankill Road and murdered I believe seven innocent

:09:20.:09:24.

people on that occasion, was convicted of seven life sentences,

:09:25.:09:28.

and he was released after a much less period, it was made lace, and

:09:29.:09:34.

he served seven years in prison, which is less than one year for each

:09:35.:09:42.

life that he destroyed. Why was he released? Because of a deal that was

:09:43.:09:46.

done and an Agreement that I post for that very reason. He was

:09:47.:09:51.

released as part of a political settlement which the majority of

:09:52.:09:54.

politicians and people in this country supported. People will be

:09:55.:10:01.

dismayed about the two of you trading insults and examples across

:10:02.:10:08.

the table. We are answering your questions. It was DUP that raise the

:10:09.:10:16.

issue of proportionality. Let us deal with that yet again. An

:10:17.:10:21.

estimate of 20,000 Republicans have gone through jail, they have done

:10:22.:10:26.

100,000 years in jail. If you want to talk about proportionality, talk

:10:27.:10:31.

about it. Unionists are concerned, I have heard this on the radio,

:10:32.:10:36.

Republicans are keen on getting 100% transparency in relation to the 10%

:10:37.:10:39.

of killings carried out by state forces, not so keen on complete

:10:40.:10:44.

transparency for the 60% of Republican related killings. There

:10:45.:10:47.

you go again with the 10%, if you deal with the over 300 deaths by

:10:48.:10:53.

state forces, add to that will prove collusion, which brings the number

:10:54.:10:57.

over 1000, even though 90% is a nonsense. Let us adjust the figures.

:10:58.:11:03.

If you are concerned about 100% chance and see in a mission to 40%

:11:04.:11:07.

of killings, the point remains the same, you are not so keen on the

:11:08.:11:15.

other percentage. We have been through a number of negotiations in

:11:16.:11:18.

the Stormont House Agreement and in fresh start. The architecture was

:11:19.:11:23.

set up to deal with this right across the board. Most victims and

:11:24.:11:32.

survivors want truth, -- want the truth, some want more. If you want

:11:33.:11:40.

to deal with legacy, proportionality, there is over 50

:11:41.:11:45.

legacy cases, some of them over 40 years old, the Lord Chief Justice,

:11:46.:11:48.

not a politician, maybe he will get attacked next, he said he could sort

:11:49.:11:53.

it out in five years, the DUP and the British Government will not hand

:11:54.:11:56.

out this small amount of money which will allow justice to be done. How

:11:57.:12:01.

did you respond? Let me be clear, I have never attacked the DPP or any

:12:02.:12:07.

of the judicial system. The problem is... A lot of politicians have. I

:12:08.:12:17.

am the person who reads the DUP team in dealing with legacy issues, we

:12:18.:12:21.

reached the Stormont House Agreement and we stand by that and the

:12:22.:12:25.

Stormont House Agreement made provision, and we want to implement

:12:26.:12:28.

that, but you will not allow it to be implemented, over issues related

:12:29.:12:32.

to national security. We are ready to implement this Agreement is

:12:33.:12:34.

tomorrow and that is the way forward. People out there want to

:12:35.:12:39.

hear about how we are going to resolve this issue. Let me speak.

:12:40.:12:45.

The legacy case set outside that, to allow the money to go ahead, at

:12:46.:12:49.

least get something that works. Address that point. I am sorry but

:12:50.:12:52.

we are not going to allow a one-sided process to continue to be

:12:53.:12:59.

even more one-sided. That is not on. Tell that to the actual victims and

:13:00.:13:13.

families. Tell that... You are on the other side of the fence to the

:13:14.:13:18.

Lord Chief Justice? He has set down his view of how this matter could be

:13:19.:13:22.

dealt with as expeditiously as possible and you disagree? No. You

:13:23.:13:28.

still blocked the proposal. You cannot create a hierarchy of

:13:29.:13:37.

victims, where a certain element gets priority. The rest of the

:13:38.:13:42.

victims are ignored. That is what has happened. He says you are trying

:13:43.:13:48.

to put members of the British Army above the law? No. There has to be a

:13:49.:13:53.

level playing field, the moment there isn't. You would be happy for

:13:54.:13:57.

the soldiers to be prosecuted if other people were prosecuted as

:13:58.:14:01.

well? I believe nobody is above the law. Would you be happy for them to

:14:02.:14:09.

be prosecuted in certain certain -- circumstances, or never at all?

:14:10.:14:13.

Should they ever be prosecuted? I'm going to deal with that. It is a

:14:14.:14:18.

simple question. Are there any circumstances in which there are

:14:19.:14:26.

soldiers should be prosecuted? Era nobody is above the law. If they are

:14:27.:14:29.

guilty of murder... You don't know unless they have been prosecuted? If

:14:30.:14:34.

they are being accused, the law has to take its course. Should they be

:14:35.:14:41.

prosecuted in those circumstances? I am coming to that. Please do. Well

:14:42.:14:49.

if you let me answer... I've had to ask you six times. We have had an

:14:50.:14:54.

anomaly in the agreement, if a soldier is convicted of murder, he

:14:55.:14:58.

does not benefit under the early release programme that is available

:14:59.:15:03.

to terrorist prisoners. I think that has to be dealt with. I think we

:15:04.:15:08.

have to look at all options here. That might include a statute of

:15:09.:15:11.

limitations. You can't apply the same criteria to soldiers as you do

:15:12.:15:15.

to terrorists because the criteria requires you to support an illegal

:15:16.:15:20.

organisation. There are circumstances which might meet your

:15:21.:15:26.

approval, where they could be prosecuted? And certain

:15:27.:15:29.

circumstances where they are not prosecuted. That is the point I'm

:15:30.:15:33.

trying to make. The problem at the moment is that soldiers are not

:15:34.:15:36.

covered by the provisions of the agreement. That is unfair. I

:15:37.:15:43.

remember this, I was in the house of Jean McBride, the mother of Peter

:15:44.:15:52.

McBride, killed by Fisher and Wright. Mo Mowlam gave a guaranteed

:15:53.:15:56.

it would be dealt with like anybody else. Within weeks, she released

:15:57.:16:03.

them on the basis that she did not want British troops connected to...

:16:04.:16:07.

A simple question, you have said that you support Barry McGrory and

:16:08.:16:13.

acted in a fair and evenhanded way. There were many Republican killings

:16:14.:16:16.

were those responsible were not brought towards the courts. Would

:16:17.:16:20.

you be happy to see IRA men brought to the courts if fresh evidence came

:16:21.:16:28.

to light to enable prosecutions? Under Section 32, the PMS I are

:16:29.:16:31.

still investigating all of those issues. -- PSNI. And if it came

:16:32.:16:44.

forward, they would be prosecuted. Do you agree with that? It would

:16:45.:16:50.

take its course. Will you answer that? Everybody under the law. I

:16:51.:16:55.

accept that. It would be uncomfortable for you? I am just

:16:56.:17:00.

clarifying. It would not be uncomfortable for me. Here is the

:17:01.:17:04.

issue, Sinn Fein's decision, from the start, has been the truth

:17:05.:17:07.

commission. It was the Unionists that refuse to go for that. The

:17:08.:17:12.

compromise was the architecture we are talking about. How would it be

:17:13.:17:19.

possible when the IRA doesn't technically exist? The people exist.

:17:20.:17:23.

The people that say they weren't in it! Former members of the IRA take

:17:24.:17:32.

part in truth recovery? Ask him if the UDR would come forward. Would

:17:33.:17:36.

you can forward? I have already said, if I am asked to come forward,

:17:37.:17:42.

I would come forward. Do you think that others in the IRA would? Those

:17:43.:17:48.

people have to deal with that. The point you made was that it does not

:17:49.:17:51.

exist, the people exist. I used to be in the IRA and I still exist.

:17:52.:17:59.

Very quickly. What has happened here is that they do not want any state

:18:00.:18:05.

forces to be prosecuted or even to come forward with the truth. That is

:18:06.:18:12.

what it's about. Not necessarily the case that people would agree with

:18:13.:18:14.

you, but thank you for that. The Assembly election campaign got

:18:15.:18:15.

under way formally today and it's The big question, though,

:18:16.:18:17.

is will voters be mobilised by the Renewable Heating scandal

:18:18.:18:21.

or will they be turned off by the political bickering and yet

:18:22.:18:24.

another Stormont shutdown? Enda McClafferty has been

:18:25.:18:26.

testing opinion in some of the constituencies

:18:27.:18:28.

with the lowest turnout last time, Make no mistake about it, politics

:18:29.:18:47.

right now in places like Kilroy is a hard sell. Just look at the response

:18:48.:18:57.

to this question. If anybody's going to vote in the next election, please

:18:58.:19:04.

raise your hand. No hands went up. Hardly surprising, in a constituency

:19:05.:19:07.

where half the electorate didn't bother to vote in the last assembly

:19:08.:19:12.

election. Eight months on, and there is clearly no appetite for another

:19:13.:19:16.

vote. I don't think I'll be voting again. They are not worth voting

:19:17.:19:22.

for. I think we are all worn down. How far are we from the last

:19:23.:19:27.

election, really? Did you vote last time? I did, but not this time. No

:19:28.:19:33.

more. Enough is enough. I don't think we need another election. It's

:19:34.:19:39.

not time for us not to have government in place. Agriculture is

:19:40.:19:44.

in crisis, education, health, everywhere we looked, problems and

:19:45.:19:47.

infrastructure across the board. This will be an assembly election

:19:48.:19:51.

like no other. The numbers will be very different. Of the 108 assembly

:19:52.:19:57.

members leaving Stormont this week, only 90 will be returning. 18 will

:19:58.:20:02.

be out of a job. But that is only part of the picture. A more

:20:03.:20:07.

important figure might be the percentage turnout. The figures show

:20:08.:20:10.

a growing number of voters here are slowly turning their back on

:20:11.:20:14.

politics. Over the past 19 years, the percentage turnout in assembly

:20:15.:20:19.

elections dropped by 15%. So, the parties have a lot to consider. Last

:20:20.:20:25.

time round, we had five constituencies which recorded 50% or

:20:26.:20:30.

less. Only one constituency recorded over 64%. There is a question

:20:31.:20:34.

whether or not the nonvoters will be galvanised, or whether the trend of

:20:35.:20:37.

a decreasing turnout will apply this time round as well. People that have

:20:38.:20:41.

been voting on having called the hard-core in each party. But the

:20:42.:20:45.

centre ground has just faded away from voting. Do you think we might

:20:46.:20:51.

lose some big hitters in this? You have one seat less, a number of

:20:52.:20:55.

large names might fall. It's a question of fighting, really, within

:20:56.:21:00.

parties, rather than between parties for seats. The heart of West Tyrone,

:21:01.:21:09.

59% of voters turned out here last time. But the mood is very different

:21:10.:21:16.

now. Stormont, on television, sometimes, it is going across the

:21:17.:21:21.

whole world, what we like? Fighting, squabbling and squabbling. Where is

:21:22.:21:25.

it going to end? I'm disgusted at politics, I really am. I think there

:21:26.:21:33.

will be a bigger turnout this time. Why? Because of the situation. There

:21:34.:21:41.

are some facts they still need to be letting on to people that was going

:21:42.:21:48.

on when they were in power. These students at the Northwest Institute

:21:49.:21:53.

were among the 56% who voted in the constituency last time. Our young

:21:54.:21:59.

people tuned in to what is happening at Stormont, or are they

:22:00.:22:03.

disillusioned with politics? It is frustrating that people seem to vote

:22:04.:22:06.

for the same people over and over again, and they keep doing the same

:22:07.:22:10.

thing. They can't seem to agree. I don't think young people realise

:22:11.:22:16.

there is an alternative. People are angry, already, people go and have

:22:17.:22:21.

their say, people that have never voted before I going to vote. Moobs

:22:22.:22:29.

people I know don't care. -- most people I know. Stormont does not do

:22:30.:22:34.

anything to help the youth. Education is always the first thing

:22:35.:22:37.

cut. Dislodging the old guard at Stormont will not be easy. Don't

:22:38.:22:43.

expect any fresh faces. What we can expect is lots of political wheeling

:22:44.:22:47.

and dealing, maybe the prospect of another election beyond March the

:22:48.:22:49.

2nd. Enda McClafferty there,

:22:50.:22:50.

listening to the views of people Now, we're not normally big

:22:51.:22:52.

on patting ourselves on the back, but last week's programme did

:22:53.:22:56.

get people talking. Ian Paisley's thank

:22:57.:22:58.

you to Martin McGuinness And here's something else that

:22:59.:22:59.

caught many people's attention too - when I asked Mr Paisley about how

:23:00.:23:04.

other unionists might thoughts on Mr McGuinness's

:23:05.:23:10.

contribution. Do you think other Unionists, some

:23:11.:23:22.

of them don't understand it? I don't think it is necessary for Ian

:23:23.:23:27.

Paisley or any Unionists to sit on a show like this and qualify every

:23:28.:23:34.

comment with the fact, I'm a Protestant, think something

:23:35.:23:39.

different to the cassock beside me, I am a Unionists I think something

:23:40.:23:44.

different to the Republican beside me. We have to Dennis Praet we are

:23:45.:23:52.

beyond that. Dashed to the Catholic but beside me.

:23:53.:23:56.

Well, the Reverend Steve Stockman and Father Martin Magill launched

:23:57.:23:59.

the Four Corners Festival five years ago to encourage people out

:24:00.:24:01.

of their comfort zones in the city of Belfast.

:24:02.:24:08.

The comments must have been like mana from heaven. But then it was

:24:09.:24:14.

like business as usual? That was remarkable. Tonight we have had

:24:15.:24:20.

white noise again. I am looking for the politician making me stop and

:24:21.:24:27.

think, did he really say that? Ian Paisley did that. Everybody has

:24:28.:24:31.

conspiracy theories about why he said it. It has been a conversation

:24:32.:24:35.

starter all week long. Everybody was talking about it. I don't know how

:24:36.:24:42.

many reviews and treats you have had, but it has been a remarkable

:24:43.:24:46.

change in tone, even in the conversations in the street. It was

:24:47.:24:50.

the biggest viewing audience ever in four and a half years. It caught

:24:51.:24:55.

public attention. The question is, does it make a difference, does it

:24:56.:25:00.

help reframe the political debate at the beginning of a brutal election

:25:01.:25:06.

campaign? I think it does. Taking the likes of social media, last

:25:07.:25:10.

week, following it on Facebook and Twitter, the enormous response. It

:25:11.:25:16.

is still a talking point. To some extent, it gives us an opportunity

:25:17.:25:25.

to build on that. The article on Grace, another talking point. I am

:25:26.:25:28.

detecting a real sea change. I am very much aware, that we would not

:25:29.:25:39.

be able to take the matter have some of the conversations we are having.

:25:40.:25:43.

I think things have changed. It seems there are two parallel

:25:44.:25:46.

conversations going on, what you have described as white noise, where

:25:47.:25:49.

politicians talk at each other, and the other one, perhaps not in front

:25:50.:25:56.

of television cameras quite so much, they do not come out with the

:25:57.:26:01.

chestnuts that we are used to seeing on television studios, on the radio.

:26:02.:26:07.

What do you think you can do about that? If there is a public appetite

:26:08.:26:13.

for change, how do you deliver that? I have talked to a lot of

:26:14.:26:16.

politicians. I am amazed when I talk to them, privately when we have

:26:17.:26:22.

spoken at Four Corners, these are people that want to bring change to

:26:23.:26:27.

society. They get in of cameras, they play their party line, and you

:26:28.:26:32.

go, what happened there? They say they have a mandate? That is the

:26:33.:26:42.

problem we all have. 45% didn't vote the last time. We are expecting

:26:43.:26:49.

peace and reconciliation to drip down from the hill, it has to creep

:26:50.:26:54.

up. We have to give collateral to the people on the hill. They are

:26:55.:26:58.

trying to find out how they can get the vote out for the election, what

:26:59.:27:02.

can they say to get people out of their seats to vote? If 45% are

:27:03.:27:06.

apathetic, they are not going to vote. If they say, this is what we

:27:07.:27:11.

are going to do for you, there is a change in the groundswell. A

:27:12.:27:16.

politician said to me, leaving an event, I have just got to be more

:27:17.:27:21.

courageous. I thought we could make him more courageous if we were

:27:22.:27:23.

prepared to change the conversation and maybe more people vote for the

:27:24.:27:30.

things we want to vote for. Reconciliation should be higher. We

:27:31.:27:34.

should be thinking about the future more than the past. The politicians

:27:35.:27:39.

on the Hill need to looking over their shoulder. Politicians at

:27:40.:27:46.

election time think they have to deliver a message that the public

:27:47.:27:48.

wants to hear. That is what they think will get them votes. They say

:27:49.:27:52.

if you don't vote for me, you will get the other fellow, and you don't

:27:53.:27:56.

want him, you want me, so you've got to just vote the ticket. You got to

:27:57.:28:00.

do what you got to do. Even if you might be tempted to do something

:28:01.:28:04.

different, you'd better not risk it? The likes of next week, and we will

:28:05.:28:15.

hear from a representative of the University later, I was talking to

:28:16.:28:19.

some young people from the students union, and I am hearing a sense of,

:28:20.:28:27.

we do not want an orange and Green approach this time around. We are

:28:28.:28:32.

tired of it. There is anger and frustration at it. If that was the

:28:33.:28:35.

case more people would thought for other parties, more people would go

:28:36.:28:42.

and vote, but they do not. One of the contributors docs about

:28:43.:28:50.

squabbling and squabbling. With all respect to the previous contributors

:28:51.:28:53.

who work life year, there were a few moments where I thought it was quite

:28:54.:28:59.

helpful conversation, but really it was a turn off. Some of the youngest

:29:00.:29:03.

members of the last Assembly were those who came out with the least

:29:04.:29:06.

reconstructed contributions, it is not as if that is... I listen to

:29:07.:29:16.

them every Monday and Tuesday, there was not much clear blue thinking

:29:17.:29:21.

going on. You said earlier, what they portray to the public, they are

:29:22.:29:26.

not going to the public, they are going to their constituency. Somehow

:29:27.:29:29.

this other groundswell that wants change has to say there is a

:29:30.:29:34.

constituency and you are not coming to our constituency, and if we

:29:35.:29:36.

decide to vote for other parties, there will have to be a change from

:29:37.:29:44.

the ground rather than the top. In terms of reconciliation we need to

:29:45.:29:48.

be saying that louder and making it clear to our politicians, enough of

:29:49.:29:51.

the beckoning of the past. Stay with us.

:29:52.:29:53.

Let's bring in our commentators at this stage -

:29:54.:29:55.

I suppose there is a disconnect between what you are saying and what

:29:56.:30:06.

happens on polling day when people decide they want to fall along

:30:07.:30:10.

tribal lines, they might be saying we are tired, we cannot stand the

:30:11.:30:16.

beckoning, and people dancing around issues, and what they were saying

:30:17.:30:20.

depended on their perspective, and it is hard to see a meeting of

:30:21.:30:24.

minds. The reality is, not what you are saying is wrong, but when people

:30:25.:30:28.

thought they still vote along tribal lines and they are still voting to

:30:29.:30:36.

keep people out. Tonight we heard a lot, and the warm glow that we heard

:30:37.:30:42.

last week 's forgotten about. So how do you shift away from the debates

:30:43.:30:47.

of the past and engage with the 45% of people who do not bother or

:30:48.:30:51.

cannot bring themselves to vote, how do you turn that around? We need to

:30:52.:30:59.

get away from this wishy-washy situation, people should not be

:31:00.:31:03.

afraid to see a side is in the wrong, and the missing element is

:31:04.:31:07.

that Unionism has a particular problem with giving that hardliners.

:31:08.:31:11.

That is not necessarily a harsh criticism of Unionism. It is less

:31:12.:31:17.

inextricably linked. Talking about looking over their shoulders. Maybe

:31:18.:31:23.

it has a harder time to control them but that spends more time looking

:31:24.:31:27.

over its shoulder even what it is looking at shrink state to small

:31:28.:31:30.

numbers like a caravan full of people. Even after years of that

:31:31.:31:35.

there was not a single Unionist leaders who was prepared to lead

:31:36.:31:41.

those people or just leave them, that is a fundamental problem and

:31:42.:31:44.

that keeps society unbalance and needs to be addressed. What you are

:31:45.:31:48.

saying is we are lacking bold leadership. People are who -- people

:31:49.:31:54.

who will see this is not the way we want to move forward. The focus is

:31:55.:31:59.

always on the past. The conversation earlier was legacy issues, and it is

:32:00.:32:02.

toxic, and if we cannot deal with the past, we were told in the fresh

:32:03.:32:11.

start that they were moving forward. The Secretary of State said he was

:32:12.:32:15.

biting his ideas out to consultation. The justice minister

:32:16.:32:18.

said she was hopeful. Nothing happened. Gerry Kelly can see, yes,

:32:19.:32:26.

and be part of truth and reconciliation, politicians know

:32:27.:32:29.

there will not be a truth and reconciliation Commission because

:32:30.:32:33.

there are things that neither Unionists, Republicans, nor

:32:34.:32:37.

Westminster wants to come out. We have talked about a lot of people

:32:38.:32:41.

engaged with last week's programme. People at the table tonight have

:32:42.:32:45.

said, you have said, people were coming up on the street talking

:32:46.:32:48.

about what Ian Paisley said last week. We struck a chord and people

:32:49.:32:53.

were pleased. They said that is what we need to hear. Jeffrey Donaldson

:32:54.:32:57.

Kemen tonight and it was as if he had not seen at interview because

:32:58.:33:00.

there was no sense whatsoever that he was bringing into his comments

:33:01.:33:06.

any elements of what Ian Paisley said, or the note that Ian Paisley

:33:07.:33:10.

tried to strike on the programme. Ironically, Jeffrey Donaldson and

:33:11.:33:22.

Gerry Kelly get on well having worked on reconciliation projects

:33:23.:33:24.

abroad, they just need to bring that home with them. And warmly welcomed

:33:25.:33:31.

in every constituency apart from the DUP who did not warmly welcome those

:33:32.:33:34.

comments. How would you deal with legacy? Giving people the power to

:33:35.:33:45.

tell the story. We have two great member a lot of people who are

:33:46.:33:48.

living with the past on a daily basis have not got justice or other

:33:49.:33:54.

things also. We need to leave it there.

:33:55.:33:55.

That's it from The View for this week.

:33:56.:33:56.

Join me for Sunday Politics at 11.25 here on BBC One.

:33:57.:33:59.

Donald Trump is a different US President in so many ways.

:34:00.:34:02.

To start with, he's one of the few US Presidents not

:34:03.:34:05.

Raise your right hand and repeat after me. I Donaldson Trump do

:34:06.:34:30.

solemnly swear. Back that I will faithfully execute. The office of

:34:31.:34:36.

President of the United States. And we'll do the best of my ability. And

:34:37.:34:43.

will to the best of my ability. Preserve, protect and defend.

:34:44.:34:48.

Preserve protect and defend. The Constitution of the United States.

:34:49.:34:52.

The Constitution of the United States. So help me God. So help me

:34:53.:34:54.

God. MUSIC: The Elements

:34:55.:34:57.

by Tom Lehrer # There's Attenborough, micro.bit,

:34:58.:34:59.

The Bottom Line and In Our Time # And Terrific Scientific

:35:00.:35:03.

and Ten Pieces and All In The Mind # Inside Porton Down, Black And

:35:04.:35:05.

British, Bitesize, City In The Sky

:35:06.:35:09.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS