Browse content similar to 19/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The end of a remarkable career that saw a republican from the Bogside | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
embracing the political process, ultimately leading to | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
Tonight on The View, we look at the political legacy | :00:00. | :00:09. | |
From the rubble strewn streets of 1970s Derry to the gilded | :00:10. | :00:33. | |
rooms of Windsor Castle, Martin McGuinness has been a major | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
figure on the political scene for more than 40 years. | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
Now, due to ill-health, he's standing aside. | :00:41. | :00:48. | |
The question I ask myself is, are you capable, are you physically | :00:49. | :00:56. | |
capable of fighting this election with the intensity collections need | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
to be Fort? The answer is I am not physically capable. | :01:01. | :01:01. | |
With me in the studio, the DUP MP, Ian Paisley, | :01:02. | :01:03. | |
whose father had a remarkable relationship with Mr McGuinness, | :01:04. | :01:05. | |
Conor Murphy of Sinn Fein, and our Political Editor, | :01:06. | :01:07. | |
And from our Foyle studio, Denis Bradley, who knows | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
Sinn Fein does a U-turn on a public inquiry into RHI. | :01:12. | :01:19. | |
What impact will that have on the crisis that saw another | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
I'll be asking the opposition parties what they want | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
And after another week of twists and turns, | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
in Commentators' Corner we've Professor Deirdre Heenan | :01:31. | :01:32. | |
After weeks of speculation over his future, the announcement | :01:33. | :01:42. | |
finally came in an interview in his home town. | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
One of the most prominent political figures of the last 40 years | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
confirmed he will never again be an elected representative. | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
Our Political Editor, Mark Devenport, spoke | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
In the aftermath of the assembly election last year, I agreed to stay | :01:55. | :02:12. | |
on. I said I would do it for a further year, that would bring me to | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
the 8th of May. It would have been the tenth anniversary. That was a | :02:18. | :02:25. | |
very historic moment. There was the crisis of Stormont and a big | :02:26. | :02:33. | |
decision had to be made as to whether or not I would contest that | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
election. A lot of decisions had to be taken into consideration so I've | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
given a lot of careful thought to death over the course of the last | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
couple of weeks. The question I ask myself, are you physically capable | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
of fighting this election with the intensity that lecterns need to be | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
fought? The answer is that I am not physically capable. Are you | :02:54. | :03:00. | |
disappointed that your decision to retire from politics have come at a | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
time when the Stormont institutions have effectively collapsed and how | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
hard do you think you will be to restore them? These things cannot be | :03:09. | :03:21. | |
seen in isolation. I think that is sheared by their sympathy to all | :03:22. | :03:28. | |
things Irish. Please institutions could only work on the basis of | :03:29. | :03:37. | |
equality. Specifically in relation to the scandal, I provided a way out | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
for Arlene Foster and she refused to take it. I phoned her and I said, | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
Mike Nesbitt is calling for a head. He is calling for your resignation. | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
Without an enquiry of any description. What I am asking for is | :03:54. | :04:02. | |
your cooperation to do what Peter done previously, stand aside for | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
four or five weeks. She refused to do so. Your journey has been | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
remarkable from the early days when you were pretty open about your role | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
within the RIAA to later days when you were seen as a peacemaker. -- | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
IRA. Do you regret anything about your earlier endorsement of the use | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
of violence to further your aim is? People have to consider the | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
circumstances that existed at the time joining the IRA. In the city, | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
people were being murdered by the RUC. Whether they were being | :04:37. | :04:44. | |
murdered wholesale as they were on bloody Sunday. Many young people | :04:45. | :04:47. | |
like myself supported by many thousands of people in the city, the | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
majority, decided to fight back. I don't regret any of that. But I | :04:53. | :05:01. | |
think that people can judge all of that. The don't understand what was | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
happening in the city at the time. Is there anything the Martin | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
McGuinness of today would tell the Martin McGuinness of the early 70s | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
now with the benefit of hindsight in what you've seen? There's no point | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
in me telling the Martin McGuinness the 70s anything about what he | :05:19. | :05:26. | |
should or should not have done at that time. There were particular | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
circumstances that existed in the city when the city was occupied, | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
where people were being downtrodden as a result of the Unionists and | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
Stormont supported by the British Army. I have to deal with all of | :05:40. | :05:48. | |
that on a very philosophical way. I am proud of the tradition that I've | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
come from but I'm equally as pride of the people who are about to | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
emerge next week and you will know about this next week, the new | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
leadership in the north. I think people will be inspired. Will you | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
see a united Ireland in your lifetime? I am very determined to | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
ensure we continue for the work of the reunification of Ireland. | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
Obviously I will not be ever again an elected representative but I | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
would hope that I would have a key role to play in terms of continuing | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
to build support for the peace process, build support for unity, | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
build support for reconciliation and in terms of reconciliation, I don't | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
think I could be criticised by anyone for what I have done that. | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
Although there have been some Republicans, mostly on the extremes, | :06:46. | :06:53. | |
even someone mainstream, who thought that meeting the Queen, going to the | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
Somme, going to Flanders Fields, the many other acts of reconciliation | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
that I've been involved in was a bridge too far. The argument was | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
always put that it was a bridge too far for them, not because they were | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
opposed in principle but because there was no reciprocation coming | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
from the DUP. I don't actually remember the last time I heard a | :07:18. | :07:25. | |
member of the DUP the word reconciliation when you consider the | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
fact that Arlene Foster has been in the post now for a year. I have | :07:30. | :07:36. | |
memories of Peter's speech in New York when he talks about the need to | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
work together. I haven't heard any of that from the present leadership | :07:43. | :07:44. | |
of the DUP. Mark, you were there | :07:45. | :07:45. | |
with Mr McGuinness in I've conducted in many interviews | :07:46. | :07:57. | |
over the year with Martin McGuinness but I think this was the first time | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
when off-camera didn't see him in there, but his wife was there, one | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
of his brothers was there, one of his sons was there providing company | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
and support for him. Whilst we were setting up the gear and even before | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
anything had been said and he made his opening statement, you got a | :08:15. | :08:18. | |
sense this was a seminal moment for not only Martin McGuinness but also | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
his family. This wasn't going to be an ordinary interview. He didn't use | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
the word retire, he still wants to play some role in public life | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
afterwards, it was clear from what he said that this was really the end | :08:31. | :08:37. | |
of an error and it was evident then in the emotion we've seen him that | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
she would near his home in the Bogside at that little gathering | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
this evening. -- era. The kind of emotion he was holding within | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
himself I was conducting that interview. Thanks very much indeed. | :08:51. | :08:52. | |
With me now are the DUP's Ian Paisley and Sinn | :08:53. | :08:54. | |
You must have known this day was fast approaching, | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
but was it still difficult to take in when it was confirmed | :08:59. | :09:00. | |
Yes, obviously personally I am very sad. He's been a good friend and | :09:01. | :09:12. | |
mentor of mine for almost 30 years. I have learnt a huge amount from | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
him. It is the huge hole which has been recruited in the middle of our | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
organisation. He will still be there for us. In terms of the role he has | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
played over recent years in both leading the Sinn Fein operation in | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
the north but also across Ireland, his contribution to the peace | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
process, to reconciliation and the drive that he brought in to that, | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
the patience and determination and the fact that you not only | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
challenged himself that other Republicans and people right across | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
society in what reconciliation looks like, his relationship with Ian's | :09:48. | :09:54. | |
father. They were derided for the friendship that they had by people. | :09:55. | :10:00. | |
People would like to see if he chuckles around Stormont at the | :10:01. | :10:03. | |
moment. He has been a huge figure in the peace process here and his | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
retirement is a very, very sad day not just for Sinn Fein but politics | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
generally across Ireland. Your father, against all | :10:10. | :10:11. | |
expectations, formed a close First of all, I'm going to wish | :10:12. | :10:24. | |
Martin McGuinness well in his retirement. I hope that he has time | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
to get over his health issues and to enjoy a time of retirement with his | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
wife and family. Any politician knows the importance of that and the | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
ability to be able to enjoy that. Thank you is the second thing going | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
to say. It's important we reflect on the fact that we would not be where | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
we are in Northern Ireland in terms of having stability, peace and the | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
opportunity to rebuild our country it hadn't been for the work that he | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
did Putin, especially with my father, the beginning of this long | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
journey. I'm going to acknowledge the fact that perhaps if we got back | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
to that foundation work of building a proper relationship and | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
recognising what partnership actually means, we can get rid of | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
the mess we are in. You have no difficulty as a Unionist here | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
tonight seeing you warmly applaud his contribution, particularly in | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
recent years. Do you think there are other Unionists who don't really | :11:24. | :11:25. | |
appreciate that and don't really understand it? I do not believe it | :11:26. | :11:33. | |
is necessary for Ian Paisley Iranian Unionist to qualify every comment | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
with the fact that eight, I'm a Protestant, it's different to the | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
Catholic decide me, I'm a Unionist and a Loyalist and I think something | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
different to the Nationalist republican beside me. Can we please | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
get over that? We as political leaders have to demonstrate by our | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
actions and words and our top that we are over that. The sooner we do | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
that then me saying thank you to I'm diametrically opposed to an ancient | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
have to say that I'm opposed to, it's obvious. I can say thank you | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
them honestly and humbly and recognise the remarkable journey | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
that Martin McGuinness went on has not only save lives but has made the | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
lives of countless people in Northern Ireland better because of | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
the partnership Government that we worked on and up it together. That | :12:20. | :12:24. | |
is important and it's important that I see it. It is interesting that you | :12:25. | :12:32. | |
say it. It is honest. I'm glad you point that out. The reason I put the | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
question the way I put the question is because not every DUP | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
representative I would be having this conversation with who would | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
express views in the way you'd express them. It is very significant | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
you're seeing what you're saying. As politicians we have to be more | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
honest. Otherwise the sort of crisis were in at the moment will become a | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
normal feature of Northern Ireland political life and the fact of the | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
matter is the chuckle Brothers, as it was derided, is actually | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
something for people to look back on and see if we had that type of | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
relationship, some of the problems to do with reconciliation that | :13:12. | :13:13. | |
Martin McGuinness has chided and scolded and some of the issues that | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
we tidied and scolded Sinn Fein about, those issues would not be as | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
difficult to deal with. They will still be there. What do you think | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
then is your message to those members of the DUP watching this | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
choking on their horror lurks? Thinking, steady on, Ian, let's not | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
over do it here. We remember him from the past and we find it | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
difficult to forget that in the circumstances. | :13:41. | :13:58. | |
It will not put our country back together again. We have a | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
responsibility as political leaders to put this back together again and | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
the sooner more of us are honest about this, the better. I don't | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
expect Martin McGuinness or anyone to deny who or what they are or what | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
has happened in the past. If they did it just to make it easier for | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
me, it would not be honest. What is your response to that? Are you | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
surprised? No, I am not because I know that Martin will do good | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
relationship with many unionists and the Paisley family. I am not | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
surprised that they now at a personal level his commitment to | :14:42. | :14:48. | |
reconciliation. I am is that Ian is honest enough to say that. I know | :14:49. | :14:57. | |
that let down by both governments -- Martin felt let down. We needed to | :14:58. | :15:08. | |
see more generosity and the spirit of reconciliation and genuine | :15:09. | :15:09. | |
power-sharing and we were not getting that. And then obviously the | :15:10. | :15:19. | |
RHI scandal developed and was being investigated. These issues were | :15:20. | :15:21. | |
flagged up and I think we are looking for not a new agreement but | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
genuine partnership and adherence to principles of the Good Friday | :15:28. | :15:39. | |
Agreement. Ian Paisley, what do you say, in response to the interesting | :15:40. | :15:42. | |
question about the current leadership of the DUP and its | :15:43. | :15:46. | |
approach to Sinn Fein and how it dealt with Martin McGuinness and the | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
way the party had those Russian jets under your father. Martin McGuinness | :15:52. | :16:00. | |
said he asked Arlene Foster to cooperate with him. Do you think the | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
current DUP leadership has gone off the rails? I am always honest with | :16:06. | :16:15. | |
you. If people do not learn lessons from what we do politically then we | :16:16. | :16:18. | |
are destined to repeat mistakes. Lessons that are learnt from the | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
present time so mistakes are not repeated. Has Arlene Foster got it | :16:23. | :16:33. | |
wrong? I will say it very plainly that there are lessons to be learned | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
on all sides of this to make sure we get... Including an the DUP | :16:38. | :16:45. | |
leadership? There are lessons to be learned on all sides and we must | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
learn them or we will keep on repeating these mistakes. Thankfully | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
the mistakes which have been made at the present time are not the | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
mistakes of atrocity but of policy and politics and by politicians and | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
I hope that the craft of politics now improves and the short learning | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
curve people are an on all sides of the organisation starts to learn | :17:08. | :17:09. | |
more. Let's bring in our Political Editor, | :17:10. | :17:22. | |
Mark Devenport, who spoke to Martin McGuinness this afternoon, | :17:23. | :17:25. | |
and in our Foyle studio is Denis Bradley, the former | :17:26. | :17:27. | |
Vice-chair of the Policing Board and author of the Eames-Bradley | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
Report on the past, who's known You can't have been surprised | :17:31. | :17:32. | |
at today's development? That does not surprise me but I'm | :17:33. | :17:38. | |
glad to hear that warmth in the public statement and I think he is | :17:39. | :17:41. | |
right that we need to get some of that warmth more often than we do. | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
There will be people, and we spoke earlier on today, who are Unionists | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
and nationalists and you will know them in your home city who will | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
still struggle to forgive Martin McGuinness and forget his | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
involvement 30 and 40 years ago. I am quite sure that is true. Martin | :18:02. | :18:09. | |
and I come from the same part of Ireland, or at least our people do, | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
and none of us were born with a spoon in our mouth and Marton like | :18:14. | :18:20. | |
myself was an ordinary youngster, better looking than I was, mind you, | :18:21. | :18:26. | |
but he was born into a very specific area and also a time within Irish | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
history. As thousands of other youngsters were. You have used the | :18:33. | :18:40. | |
word is a remarkable journey and it was one from fast becoming | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
recognised within the republican movement and the IRA and Sinn Fein | :18:44. | :18:48. | |
that he had abilities and then using those abilities and determination to | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
actually bring that same organisation to an end. That is an | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
enormous contribution to this island, to all the people. I will | :18:59. | :19:05. | |
just say this, he used people like me and maybe specifically me at | :19:06. | :19:10. | |
times, to actually save lives. I know there were alive is taken and | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
many people hurt but he actually, where he could intervene and where | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
he could use people like me to actually stop something happening or | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
save somebody's life or make sure somebody wasn't killed then he did | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
that and he did it often. So in some ways the peace side of him was | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
always there and it developed and I think that is part of the remarkable | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
journey. I think those people who are hurting because of the IRA need | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
also to know that a lot of us were caught up in those times, in those | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
dynamics, and if they had not been there and history had not been so | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
cruel then perhaps we might have been better friends. What do you | :19:56. | :20:03. | |
make of the warmth of the tribute paid by Ian Paisley to Martin | :20:04. | :20:07. | |
McGuinness tonight and I wonder if you might have a stab at decoding | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
his comments about the current DUP leadership needing to learn the | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
lessons of the past? Understandable because Martin McGuinness built this | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
report with Ian Paisley's father and that is remembered by the rest of | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
the Paisley family. It is clear we could have other people from the DUP | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
here tonight and they would not repeat those comments so it is not | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
necessarily the sentiment of the whole party. I think obviously Ian | :20:35. | :20:41. | |
is indicating that you need not just the cool and businesslike demeanour | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
of more recent years but to build a bit of report to overcome | :20:47. | :20:49. | |
difficulties and it did strike me as I was listening that sometimes | :20:50. | :20:59. | |
people have said once the Troubles generation is gone then things will | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
somehow become easier but it is not just that generation that poses a | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
potential obstacle but you do need some of the personal gifts that | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
Martin McGuinness used so much particularly in the latter of his | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
career so we talk of having a long shopping list of demands and how | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
difficult it was, it is never going to be quite as difficult as it was, | :21:22. | :21:29. | |
we hope, as it was in the 90s but Martin McGuinness demonstrated | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
bridge building skills, undoubtedly, and we will still need that in the | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
future, whatever obstacles we are trying to surmount. Martin | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
McGuinness said in the interview this afternoon that the announcement | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
about his successor will be known next week and he says it will | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
inspire people. Do you know who that is? It will be announced next week. | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
The party is having discussions and making arrangements but one | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
announcement today is plenty. Today we are dealing with Martin's | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
resignation. There is business to be dealt with on Monday in the Assembly | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
as well and we will come to that in the fullness of time. You talking to | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
the new leader of Sinn Fein? You are not. The leader is Gerry Adams. The | :22:19. | :22:27. | |
leader in the North is regarded as Martin McGuinness. You have just | :22:28. | :22:36. | |
said it is not you. It is not. The replacement is yet to be decided and | :22:37. | :22:39. | |
that will be announced next week. Would you be an inspiring choice? It | :22:40. | :22:46. | |
depends on people's view. I'm not sure! A lot of people are suggesting | :22:47. | :22:54. | |
on social media are suggesting you will be named as the next leader. | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
The party will decide and it will be announced next week. I am surprised | :23:02. | :23:08. | |
that you say it is yet to be decided because of Martin McGuinness said he | :23:09. | :23:11. | |
had the fullest confidence in this person. He said in the leadership | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
that will be announced. We are a party in transition and Gerry and | :23:17. | :23:30. | |
Marton... There is a new leadership emerging and the people who will be | :23:31. | :23:33. | |
at the point of that, the head of that in terms of the North, will be | :23:34. | :23:40. | |
announced. The DUP has a woman in the leadership role. There is talk | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
that Sinn Fein might want to mirror that by putting Michelle O'Neill | :23:45. | :23:50. | |
there. Entirely possible. If you were a betting man? I have no vices | :23:51. | :23:57. | |
whatsoever. You will have to wait till next week. A lot of people are | :23:58. | :24:07. | |
suggesting on social media that Ian Paisley is in with a shout as the | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
next leader of Sinn Fein after your comments tonight. Oh, sorry, the | :24:11. | :24:23. | |
DUP. It doesn't matter who I want as the leader of Sinn Fein but what | :24:24. | :24:26. | |
they're skills are. Skills that will include building a relationship to | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
move the executive forward. That is where the lessons learned from the | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
last number of weeks about how we try to create that Russian ship are | :24:36. | :24:37. | |
important because they need political craft and -- relationship. | :24:38. | :24:51. | |
They need political craft. Arlene Foster has your full support as | :24:52. | :24:59. | |
leader? Yes. What would happen for that to change? For her to retire. | :25:00. | :25:08. | |
And that would be her decision. Do you think that is imminent with the | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
way the RHI thing has been handled? I have seen much adjusted to Connor | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
and I almost felt sorry for him for a moment. I think a lot of people | :25:20. | :25:26. | |
are saying that after what you were saying today it would like a pitch | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
for leadership of your party. Are you positioning yourself in case | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
Arlene Foster does not make it to them? -- until autumn. Are you going | :25:35. | :25:46. | |
for director-general of the BBC? I don't think that position is | :25:47. | :25:53. | |
available. Exactly it is an irrelevant question. Who needs to | :25:54. | :26:02. | |
take over Sinn Fein? Someone without military involvement or a background | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
in IRA? That is happening anyway. Time is passing and none of us are | :26:08. | :26:10. | |
getting any younger who have been around in the 70s and 80s and I | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
think that new generation is taking over. I'm not too sure the | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
leadership of Sinn Fein is a vital issue. Connor referred to the fact | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
that Martin had said he was disappointed and two governments in | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
the last period of time. I would also echo that, that I would be | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
disappointed at the distance the government has kept even when they | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
tell us that they were there and they were up and down, foreign | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
affairs are there, British government are there, they are | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
keeping a watching rather than acting brief and I think next time | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
we would need the involvement of both governments to bring this | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
about. There is a growing danger that the institutions will not be | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
re-established again. We will leave that there are. | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
On last week's programme the Communities Minister, | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
Paul Givan, made comments about the Finucane family | :27:07. | :27:08. | |
during a discussion about the Renewable Heat Incentive scheme. | :27:09. | :27:10. | |
We have been asked by the Finucane family to clarify | :27:11. | :27:13. | |
that it has no position on the Renewable Heat | :27:14. | :27:15. | |
Mr Givan went on to make reference to Sinn Fein advancing | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
The Finucane family has asked us to make it clear | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
that it does not support, or form part of, any | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
The BBC regrets any distress caused to the Finucane family by those | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
Now, we've become used to at least one politcal story every day, | :27:31. | :27:37. | |
and today didn't disappoint with the news of that public inquiry | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
-- that we were hoping to talk about but didn't quite get onto any detail | :27:42. | :27:54. | |
of. In a moment we'll hear | :27:55. | :27:55. | |
from the three opposition parties, There are shortcomings, for example | :27:56. | :28:03. | |
ministerial interference and I pledge I will not interfere in this | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
inquiry. Another shortcoming is that it is delivered to the minister so I | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
make a pledge on Battle of Sinn Fein and myself that we will ensure any | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
report that is delivered was directed the public. Set the | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
shortcomings aside. Time is short. Any investigation or inquiry would | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
have to go to the Assembly next week. The only route possible is a | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
public inquiry and I have chosen that and I think the public welcome | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
mat. They understand politicians fight their corner but there comes a | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
time to make a decision. We welcome the change of heart from Sinn Fein | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
in setting up this public inquiry. It is something I have been wanting | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
for some considerable time. I think it was mid December when I said we | :28:48. | :28:53. | |
wanted to take place. Earlier this week I wrote to the other parties | :28:54. | :29:00. | |
and indeed Sinn Fein, suggesting a way forward but now I am very | :29:01. | :29:03. | |
pleased that the inquiry is come to be set up and that finally we will | :29:04. | :29:09. | |
get some due process in and around these matters and we will get to the | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
truth about what happened in relation to the RHI scheme. As was | :29:16. | :29:22. | |
confirmed yesterday in the committee I have absolutely nothing to hide. | :29:23. | :29:25. | |
Joining me now are Nichola Mallon from the SDLP and Stephen Farry | :29:26. | :29:28. | |
I do want to talk to you about RHI but I can't not talk to you about | :29:29. | :29:42. | |
the retirement of Martin McGuinness. Extraordinary comments from Ian | :29:43. | :29:46. | |
Paisley about the significance of Martin McGuinness's role. Philip, | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
forgive me for saying, they are in stark contrast to the tribute paid | :29:52. | :29:58. | |
by the -- your party leader this evening. Do you accept that? I wish | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
Martin McGuinness well in his retirement and I hope he has a | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
recovery from his illness. Undoubtedly, he has been on a | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
journey from IRA commander and meeting the Queen, it's just a pity | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
that as the leader of an organisation that made short the | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
journey of many hundreds if not thousands of victims with their | :30:24. | :30:30. | |
futile terrorist campaign that he couldn't in his words tonight | :30:31. | :30:33. | |
actually expressed regret for the many victims that his organisation | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
created. His past was more important than his present? He has been on a | :30:40. | :30:42. | |
journey and I recognise that but we cannot forget the past and many | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
hundreds if not thousands of victims. Undoubtedly, Martin has | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
underwent a huge transformation and a very big political and personal | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
journey. The true sign of leadership is having the courage to lead, | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
bringing people with you and reach out to those who have been hurt. | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
Martin has demonstrated he has all those qualities. The big challenge | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
now is for those who are to step into his shoes. That type of | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
leadership is needed now more than ever. Your thoughts on it. You have | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
no difficulty paying tribute to him but how do you strike the balance | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
can be constructive role and his past? I wished him well on Monday in | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
the assembly. He is a leader and has travelled a very long distance and | :31:32. | :31:34. | |
particularly his relationship with Ian Paisley was important and it | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
shows that leadership has to be based not on just institutions but | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
on mutual respect and trust. At the same time, this is the bigger issue | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
than Martin McGuinness stepping down. There are some deep divisions | :31:49. | :31:54. | |
between the parties, problems with the structures. He is going to be a | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
very difficult act to follow in terms of what comes next. Let's talk | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
about our each eye, that's what you are here to discuss. Under any other | :32:04. | :32:10. | |
circumstances, do the programme would have been directed towards | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
RHI. Were going to get more details in the assembly next week on the | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
Finance Minister's public enquiry. It looks like you're getting what | :32:19. | :32:23. | |
you want in terms of the public enquiries. Have Sinn Fein managed to | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
outmanoeuvre or all of the parties by doing what they've done today? We | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
sought to significant U-turns today, one from Sinn Fein and the DUP. Sinn | :32:32. | :32:37. | |
Fein's U-turn was on the public enquiry. I was on the radio this | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
morning and he was adamant there wasn't going to be a public enquiry | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
and by early evening we've had someone saying the exact opposite. | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
It's what you wanted. They may have come late to the party as far as | :32:53. | :32:55. | |
you're concerned but never last Sinn Fein is doing what you wanted it to | :32:56. | :33:00. | |
do. We will wait to see the detail of it next week from the statement | :33:01. | :33:07. | |
to the assembly. I would have preferred the Secretary of State to | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
have been leading on it and I hope whatever he proposes, there will be | :33:13. | :33:18. | |
a preliminary report before action. Doesn't actually matter? You say | :33:19. | :33:21. | |
you'd prefer the Secretary of State to be leading on it. It is going to | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
be led by a judge, hopefully appointed by the Lord Chief Justice. | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
That's what we want to see. That's what's happening. The Lord Chief | :33:33. | :33:35. | |
Justice is happening. He was bitterly terms of residence | :33:36. | :33:43. | |
together? More of that next week. A smart move by Sinn Fein. There has | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
been flip-flopping in recent weeks, Declan made the case this morning on | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
BBC radio Ulster in addition to be a public enquiry and then by tea-time | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
there has been a U-turn. The point is it's happening. It is finally | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
happening. The gathering by Sinn Fein over the past 30 days has cost | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
the taxpayer two point three ?5 million. It is cause them a lot of | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
money for every day the debt owed. This scandal didn't just come on | :34:13. | :34:18. | |
Sinn Fein's horizon when the BBC ran the Spotlight programme. The me | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
about it in February and it cost ?20 million, that we have been | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
consistently Colin the three parties very public enquiry and finally a | :34:28. | :34:30. | |
significant cost to the taxpayer, it Sinn Fein are done the right thing. | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
That is to be welcomed. There can be no political interference in this. | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
The appointee must be on the recommendation of the Lord Chief | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
Justice and the report must be published up its immediate | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
completion. We are very clear... March movie and has said it will | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
happen. It would have been much better if Sinn Fein is keen to this | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
position earlier on because it wouldn't have done the damage that | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
it has done and it would have done the damage has done to the public | :35:03. | :35:08. | |
purse. James Brokenshire Shire said the announcement is important to the | :35:09. | :35:11. | |
confidence in the ability of the institutions to deliver and help set | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
the tone for the election to come. Do you agree? Misses commentary from | :35:17. | :35:19. | |
the sidelines in the Secretary of State who could have called this | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
public enquiry several weeks ago in line with some of the warnings we | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
were given. Does it matter? The point is it's happening. I welcome | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
the fact were having it but I angry and frustrated. This could have | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
happened many weeks ago. In that interval we have seen our political | :35:39. | :35:41. | |
institutions collapse. It is uncertain if they are going to be | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
restored. We have a very long potential gap between restoration. | :35:48. | :35:51. | |
The establishment of a public enquiry would have saved the | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
institution. You can reasonably say the blockage around the RHI scandal | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
was the final straw and there were structural problems | :36:02. | :36:02. | |
behind-the-scenes, tension is building up over Brexit. This was | :36:03. | :36:11. | |
the straw that broke the camel's back. If this had beaten to -- that | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
plays much earlier, we wouldn't have had a situation where we don't have | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
a budget, no plans in terms of Brexit. There is a real pain down | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
the tracks for the fact we don't have the Government in Northern | :36:27. | :36:28. | |
Ireland and no one is going to be arraigned for several months taking | :36:29. | :36:32. | |
decisions and that could have been avoided. Simon Hamilton has said he | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
is publishing the names at the recipients of the RHI scheme next | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
Wednesday. Do you welcome mat? Absolutely, if he is filled his | :36:43. | :36:48. | |
promise. Are you clear of what that means? Not in terms of what he is | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
promising to do. Arlene Foster has promised a public enquiry in other | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
proposals that never actually came for it. We will wait and see what | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
comes forward. I mentioned earlier to U-turns. The DUP this special | :37:02. | :37:09. | |
advisers, one has no stood aside and one has resigned from their post | :37:10. | :37:11. | |
after saying there was nothing to see here. They both maintain that | :37:12. | :37:21. | |
position? Why has he resigned? He's become a distraction is the | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
explanation. We are seeing bureaucracy within the DUP. The | :37:26. | :37:29. | |
power they seem to have within other organisations. I just wonder who is | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
making the decisions. Is it elected politicians are special advisers? | :37:36. | :37:38. | |
That is something that will come out of this public enquiry. Is the | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
publication significant? It is very important we get the heart of who | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
has benefited -- benefit from this scheme. We need also remember there | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
is a number of organisations and businesses that Anfield this scheme | :37:54. | :37:56. | |
in the right way, there were those that abused it. We mustn't allow to | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
happen is for companies and visitors who have done no wrong because they | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
legitimately appealed the scheme to be used as scapegoats. Was there any | :38:05. | :38:11. | |
evidence that would be the case? It is something we have to be concerned | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
about. There is a mudslinging campaign or people are accused of | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
doing things wrong with that they haven't. There are people within the | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
political system that had done things wrong. You can't say you want | :38:22. | :38:28. | |
to protect these businesses who have quite legitimately taken out an | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
investment through the RHI scheme and at the same time complain about | :38:32. | :38:37. | |
losing ?85,000 a day and ?20 million a year. It's got to be one or the | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
other. It's not about the protection of farms. It's finding out who | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
benefit. We are finding out who abuse the scheme and who were in | :38:48. | :38:50. | |
positions of authority, what they knew, when they knew it and what | :38:51. | :38:57. | |
they did did not do to try to it. VDU PR Bisley has its bad troubles. | :38:58. | :39:01. | |
Maybe Arlene Foster can have a spring in her step in the end of the | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
week now that the permanent secretary has said there was no | :39:07. | :39:09. | |
evidence of any wrongdoing on her part that he could see. He as a | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
civil servant is not going to challenge her. He gave a very | :39:14. | :39:20. | |
straight and serve. It was following the advice of the civil servant. | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
Ministers are there to set the policy and scrutinise what's coming | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
forward from their officials. I would also stressed that special | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
advisers act solely on behalf of ministers. The are fully accountable | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
for the action of his special adviser whether the actions are | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
authorised not. If special advisers are involved in the actions, the | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
ministers do have to be accountable. No doubt that is something the | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
enquiry will look at in considerable detail. Thank you all very much. | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
And joining me now in Commentators' Corner are Newton Emerson | :39:57. | :39:58. | |
That alter course. In a direction I didn't necessarily anticipate. -- | :39:59. | :40:15. | |
that all took off. What you make of the tribute Ian Paisley me to Martin | :40:16. | :40:22. | |
McGuinness tonight? His father's enemy and latter-day friend? You | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
could say it was extraordinary, it's show stopping. It properly did make | :40:27. | :40:29. | |
people take a second look and think did I really hear that? He is in the | :40:30. | :40:37. | |
spirit that we need more generosity, more compassion. What he has said | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
does not in any way diminish his Unionist credentials, he still | :40:44. | :40:45. | |
supports the union but he is able to see that Martin McGuinness was a | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
peacemaker, that he pushed the boundaries and I thought it was | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
interesting that he said because of Martin McGuinness people alive today | :40:55. | :40:56. | |
that otherwise wouldn't have been. He didn't focus on the negative, he | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
could have. What is fascinating, if you took a random sample of 50 | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
members of the DUP and put them in that seat, how many of them would | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
say anything close to what he said? Almost none. Ian Paisley is not in | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
the leadership of the DUP so a remark like this can only be aimed | :41:18. | :41:23. | |
at the leadership of the DUP. A to think that was a formidable pitch | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
for the leadership of the future. In my view, he is very clearly and | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
correctly judged what has gone wrong which is very much the style and | :41:32. | :41:37. | |
tone of the present leadership. It explains an absurd extent, | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
everything that has gone wrong at the moment. We did see signs today | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
that Arlene Foster is beginning to... Was that a thinly veiled | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
criticism of the leadership of Arlene Foster? It was very fierce! | :41:51. | :41:59. | |
And being diplomatic. She is down and he has given her a kicking. You | :42:00. | :42:06. | |
seriously think as much as that? He was basically saying what we are | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
missing here is the ability to build relationships, to be pragmatic, to | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
be progressive. Which isn't to say you should welcome an amazing | :42:16. | :42:18. | |
demonstration of what it all like that can achieve. It was a very | :42:19. | :42:25. | |
assertive to Arlene Foster. All focused on the person of Martin | :42:26. | :42:28. | |
McGuinness. Ian Paisley throws no punches on other issues when the | :42:29. | :42:36. | |
notion takes them. He's also saying the politics of Northern Ireland are | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
at risk here and he is recognising the danger that if we don't sort | :42:41. | :42:44. | |
this out, we are looking into a very precarious future. In that sense, he | :42:45. | :42:53. | |
is... Although there are many tears not shared Martin McGuinness inside | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
the DUP at the note you will be difficult to replace. The are not | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
concerned about more assertive Sinn Fein but we don't think the talent | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
is there. That has an interesting point. Conor Murphy was very cagey | :43:09. | :43:11. | |
about whether he is going to be taking over from Martin McGuinness. | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
After what he said, you would properly think not. Martin | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
McGuinness suggesting he's going to be an inspirational choice. I | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
thought a head towards Michelle O'Neill? In recent days, the mood | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
has been moving towards Michelle O'Neill. She has been described as | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
their senior minister and of good money, the betting money on her. She | :43:32. | :43:38. | |
is clearly up for the replacement. Maybe we will know this time next | :43:39. | :43:40. | |
week. Thank you. That's it from The View | :43:41. | :43:41. | |
for this week. Join me for Sunday Politics | :43:42. | :43:43. | |
at 11.35 here on BBC One. So, from tomorrow we will have a new | :43:44. | :43:46. | |
man in the top job across the pond. But let's not forget | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
the guy that's leaving. He and his family have given us | :43:51. | :43:52. | |
some memorable moments. Donald Trump, tweeting out insults | :43:53. | :43:54. | |
to Angela Merkel?! This gives the Internet one last | :43:55. | :44:55. | |
chance to talk about our bromance. I have two more words to say. Obama | :44:56. | :44:56. | |
out. With visitors to | :44:57. | :44:57. | |
Northern Ireland on the rise, | :44:58. | :45:01. |