19/01/2017 The View


19/01/2017

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The end of a remarkable career that saw a republican from the Bogside

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embracing the political process, ultimately leading to

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Tonight on The View, we look at the political legacy

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From the rubble strewn streets of 1970s Derry to the gilded

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rooms of Windsor Castle, Martin McGuinness has been a major

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figure on the political scene for more than 40 years.

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Now, due to ill-health, he's standing aside.

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The question I ask myself is, are you capable, are you physically

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capable of fighting this election with the intensity collections need

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to be Fort? The answer is I am not physically capable.

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With me in the studio, the DUP MP, Ian Paisley,

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whose father had a remarkable relationship with Mr McGuinness,

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Conor Murphy of Sinn Fein, and our Political Editor,

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And from our Foyle studio, Denis Bradley, who knows

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Sinn Fein does a U-turn on a public inquiry into RHI.

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What impact will that have on the crisis that saw another

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I'll be asking the opposition parties what they want

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And after another week of twists and turns,

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in Commentators' Corner we've Professor Deirdre Heenan

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After weeks of speculation over his future, the announcement

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finally came in an interview in his home town.

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One of the most prominent political figures of the last 40 years

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confirmed he will never again be an elected representative.

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Our Political Editor, Mark Devenport, spoke

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In the aftermath of the assembly election last year, I agreed to stay

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on. I said I would do it for a further year, that would bring me to

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the 8th of May. It would have been the tenth anniversary. That was a

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very historic moment. There was the crisis of Stormont and a big

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decision had to be made as to whether or not I would contest that

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election. A lot of decisions had to be taken into consideration so I've

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given a lot of careful thought to death over the course of the last

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couple of weeks. The question I ask myself, are you physically capable

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of fighting this election with the intensity that lecterns need to be

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fought? The answer is that I am not physically capable. Are you

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disappointed that your decision to retire from politics have come at a

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time when the Stormont institutions have effectively collapsed and how

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hard do you think you will be to restore them? These things cannot be

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seen in isolation. I think that is sheared by their sympathy to all

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things Irish. Please institutions could only work on the basis of

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equality. Specifically in relation to the scandal, I provided a way out

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for Arlene Foster and she refused to take it. I phoned her and I said,

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Mike Nesbitt is calling for a head. He is calling for your resignation.

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Without an enquiry of any description. What I am asking for is

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your cooperation to do what Peter done previously, stand aside for

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four or five weeks. She refused to do so. Your journey has been

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remarkable from the early days when you were pretty open about your role

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within the RIAA to later days when you were seen as a peacemaker. --

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IRA. Do you regret anything about your earlier endorsement of the use

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of violence to further your aim is? People have to consider the

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circumstances that existed at the time joining the IRA. In the city,

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people were being murdered by the RUC. Whether they were being

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murdered wholesale as they were on bloody Sunday. Many young people

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like myself supported by many thousands of people in the city, the

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majority, decided to fight back. I don't regret any of that. But I

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think that people can judge all of that. The don't understand what was

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happening in the city at the time. Is there anything the Martin

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McGuinness of today would tell the Martin McGuinness of the early 70s

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now with the benefit of hindsight in what you've seen? There's no point

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in me telling the Martin McGuinness the 70s anything about what he

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should or should not have done at that time. There were particular

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circumstances that existed in the city when the city was occupied,

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where people were being downtrodden as a result of the Unionists and

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Stormont supported by the British Army. I have to deal with all of

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that on a very philosophical way. I am proud of the tradition that I've

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come from but I'm equally as pride of the people who are about to

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emerge next week and you will know about this next week, the new

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leadership in the north. I think people will be inspired. Will you

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see a united Ireland in your lifetime? I am very determined to

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ensure we continue for the work of the reunification of Ireland.

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Obviously I will not be ever again an elected representative but I

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would hope that I would have a key role to play in terms of continuing

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to build support for the peace process, build support for unity,

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build support for reconciliation and in terms of reconciliation, I don't

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think I could be criticised by anyone for what I have done that.

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Although there have been some Republicans, mostly on the extremes,

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even someone mainstream, who thought that meeting the Queen, going to the

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Somme, going to Flanders Fields, the many other acts of reconciliation

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that I've been involved in was a bridge too far. The argument was

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always put that it was a bridge too far for them, not because they were

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opposed in principle but because there was no reciprocation coming

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from the DUP. I don't actually remember the last time I heard a

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member of the DUP the word reconciliation when you consider the

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fact that Arlene Foster has been in the post now for a year. I have

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memories of Peter's speech in New York when he talks about the need to

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work together. I haven't heard any of that from the present leadership

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of the DUP. Mark, you were there

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with Mr McGuinness in I've conducted in many interviews

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over the year with Martin McGuinness but I think this was the first time

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when off-camera didn't see him in there, but his wife was there, one

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of his brothers was there, one of his sons was there providing company

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and support for him. Whilst we were setting up the gear and even before

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anything had been said and he made his opening statement, you got a

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sense this was a seminal moment for not only Martin McGuinness but also

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his family. This wasn't going to be an ordinary interview. He didn't use

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the word retire, he still wants to play some role in public life

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afterwards, it was clear from what he said that this was really the end

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of an error and it was evident then in the emotion we've seen him that

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she would near his home in the Bogside at that little gathering

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this evening. -- era. The kind of emotion he was holding within

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himself I was conducting that interview. Thanks very much indeed.

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With me now are the DUP's Ian Paisley and Sinn

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You must have known this day was fast approaching,

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but was it still difficult to take in when it was confirmed

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Yes, obviously personally I am very sad. He's been a good friend and

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mentor of mine for almost 30 years. I have learnt a huge amount from

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him. It is the huge hole which has been recruited in the middle of our

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organisation. He will still be there for us. In terms of the role he has

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played over recent years in both leading the Sinn Fein operation in

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the north but also across Ireland, his contribution to the peace

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process, to reconciliation and the drive that he brought in to that,

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the patience and determination and the fact that you not only

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challenged himself that other Republicans and people right across

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society in what reconciliation looks like, his relationship with Ian's

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father. They were derided for the friendship that they had by people.

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People would like to see if he chuckles around Stormont at the

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moment. He has been a huge figure in the peace process here and his

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retirement is a very, very sad day not just for Sinn Fein but politics

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generally across Ireland. Your father, against all

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expectations, formed a close First of all, I'm going to wish

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Martin McGuinness well in his retirement. I hope that he has time

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to get over his health issues and to enjoy a time of retirement with his

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wife and family. Any politician knows the importance of that and the

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ability to be able to enjoy that. Thank you is the second thing going

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to say. It's important we reflect on the fact that we would not be where

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we are in Northern Ireland in terms of having stability, peace and the

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opportunity to rebuild our country it hadn't been for the work that he

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did Putin, especially with my father, the beginning of this long

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journey. I'm going to acknowledge the fact that perhaps if we got back

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to that foundation work of building a proper relationship and

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recognising what partnership actually means, we can get rid of

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the mess we are in. You have no difficulty as a Unionist here

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tonight seeing you warmly applaud his contribution, particularly in

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recent years. Do you think there are other Unionists who don't really

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appreciate that and don't really understand it? I do not believe it

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is necessary for Ian Paisley Iranian Unionist to qualify every comment

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with the fact that eight, I'm a Protestant, it's different to the

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Catholic decide me, I'm a Unionist and a Loyalist and I think something

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different to the Nationalist republican beside me. Can we please

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get over that? We as political leaders have to demonstrate by our

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actions and words and our top that we are over that. The sooner we do

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that then me saying thank you to I'm diametrically opposed to an ancient

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have to say that I'm opposed to, it's obvious. I can say thank you

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them honestly and humbly and recognise the remarkable journey

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that Martin McGuinness went on has not only save lives but has made the

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lives of countless people in Northern Ireland better because of

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the partnership Government that we worked on and up it together. That

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is important and it's important that I see it. It is interesting that you

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say it. It is honest. I'm glad you point that out. The reason I put the

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question the way I put the question is because not every DUP

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representative I would be having this conversation with who would

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express views in the way you'd express them. It is very significant

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you're seeing what you're saying. As politicians we have to be more

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honest. Otherwise the sort of crisis were in at the moment will become a

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normal feature of Northern Ireland political life and the fact of the

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matter is the chuckle Brothers, as it was derided, is actually

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something for people to look back on and see if we had that type of

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relationship, some of the problems to do with reconciliation that

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Martin McGuinness has chided and scolded and some of the issues that

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we tidied and scolded Sinn Fein about, those issues would not be as

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difficult to deal with. They will still be there. What do you think

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then is your message to those members of the DUP watching this

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choking on their horror lurks? Thinking, steady on, Ian, let's not

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over do it here. We remember him from the past and we find it

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difficult to forget that in the circumstances.

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It will not put our country back together again. We have a

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responsibility as political leaders to put this back together again and

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the sooner more of us are honest about this, the better. I don't

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expect Martin McGuinness or anyone to deny who or what they are or what

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has happened in the past. If they did it just to make it easier for

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me, it would not be honest. What is your response to that? Are you

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surprised? No, I am not because I know that Martin will do good

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relationship with many unionists and the Paisley family. I am not

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surprised that they now at a personal level his commitment to

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reconciliation. I am is that Ian is honest enough to say that. I know

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that let down by both governments -- Martin felt let down. We needed to

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see more generosity and the spirit of reconciliation and genuine

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power-sharing and we were not getting that. And then obviously the

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RHI scandal developed and was being investigated. These issues were

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flagged up and I think we are looking for not a new agreement but

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genuine partnership and adherence to principles of the Good Friday

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Agreement. Ian Paisley, what do you say, in response to the interesting

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question about the current leadership of the DUP and its

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approach to Sinn Fein and how it dealt with Martin McGuinness and the

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way the party had those Russian jets under your father. Martin McGuinness

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said he asked Arlene Foster to cooperate with him. Do you think the

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current DUP leadership has gone off the rails? I am always honest with

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you. If people do not learn lessons from what we do politically then we

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are destined to repeat mistakes. Lessons that are learnt from the

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present time so mistakes are not repeated. Has Arlene Foster got it

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wrong? I will say it very plainly that there are lessons to be learned

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on all sides of this to make sure we get... Including an the DUP

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leadership? There are lessons to be learned on all sides and we must

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learn them or we will keep on repeating these mistakes. Thankfully

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the mistakes which have been made at the present time are not the

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mistakes of atrocity but of policy and politics and by politicians and

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I hope that the craft of politics now improves and the short learning

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curve people are an on all sides of the organisation starts to learn

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more. Let's bring in our Political Editor,

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Mark Devenport, who spoke to Martin McGuinness this afternoon,

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and in our Foyle studio is Denis Bradley, the former

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Vice-chair of the Policing Board and author of the Eames-Bradley

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Report on the past, who's known You can't have been surprised

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at today's development? That does not surprise me but I'm

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glad to hear that warmth in the public statement and I think he is

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right that we need to get some of that warmth more often than we do.

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There will be people, and we spoke earlier on today, who are Unionists

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and nationalists and you will know them in your home city who will

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still struggle to forgive Martin McGuinness and forget his

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involvement 30 and 40 years ago. I am quite sure that is true. Martin

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and I come from the same part of Ireland, or at least our people do,

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and none of us were born with a spoon in our mouth and Marton like

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myself was an ordinary youngster, better looking than I was, mind you,

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but he was born into a very specific area and also a time within Irish

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history. As thousands of other youngsters were. You have used the

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word is a remarkable journey and it was one from fast becoming

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recognised within the republican movement and the IRA and Sinn Fein

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that he had abilities and then using those abilities and determination to

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actually bring that same organisation to an end. That is an

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enormous contribution to this island, to all the people. I will

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just say this, he used people like me and maybe specifically me at

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times, to actually save lives. I know there were alive is taken and

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many people hurt but he actually, where he could intervene and where

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he could use people like me to actually stop something happening or

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save somebody's life or make sure somebody wasn't killed then he did

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that and he did it often. So in some ways the peace side of him was

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always there and it developed and I think that is part of the remarkable

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journey. I think those people who are hurting because of the IRA need

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also to know that a lot of us were caught up in those times, in those

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dynamics, and if they had not been there and history had not been so

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cruel then perhaps we might have been better friends. What do you

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make of the warmth of the tribute paid by Ian Paisley to Martin

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McGuinness tonight and I wonder if you might have a stab at decoding

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his comments about the current DUP leadership needing to learn the

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lessons of the past? Understandable because Martin McGuinness built this

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report with Ian Paisley's father and that is remembered by the rest of

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the Paisley family. It is clear we could have other people from the DUP

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here tonight and they would not repeat those comments so it is not

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necessarily the sentiment of the whole party. I think obviously Ian

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is indicating that you need not just the cool and businesslike demeanour

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of more recent years but to build a bit of report to overcome

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difficulties and it did strike me as I was listening that sometimes

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people have said once the Troubles generation is gone then things will

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somehow become easier but it is not just that generation that poses a

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potential obstacle but you do need some of the personal gifts that

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Martin McGuinness used so much particularly in the latter of his

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career so we talk of having a long shopping list of demands and how

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difficult it was, it is never going to be quite as difficult as it was,

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we hope, as it was in the 90s but Martin McGuinness demonstrated

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bridge building skills, undoubtedly, and we will still need that in the

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future, whatever obstacles we are trying to surmount. Martin

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McGuinness said in the interview this afternoon that the announcement

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about his successor will be known next week and he says it will

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inspire people. Do you know who that is? It will be announced next week.

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The party is having discussions and making arrangements but one

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announcement today is plenty. Today we are dealing with Martin's

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resignation. There is business to be dealt with on Monday in the Assembly

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as well and we will come to that in the fullness of time. You talking to

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the new leader of Sinn Fein? You are not. The leader is Gerry Adams. The

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leader in the North is regarded as Martin McGuinness. You have just

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said it is not you. It is not. The replacement is yet to be decided and

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that will be announced next week. Would you be an inspiring choice? It

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depends on people's view. I'm not sure! A lot of people are suggesting

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on social media are suggesting you will be named as the next leader.

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The party will decide and it will be announced next week. I am surprised

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that you say it is yet to be decided because of Martin McGuinness said he

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had the fullest confidence in this person. He said in the leadership

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that will be announced. We are a party in transition and Gerry and

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Marton... There is a new leadership emerging and the people who will be

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at the point of that, the head of that in terms of the North, will be

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announced. The DUP has a woman in the leadership role. There is talk

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that Sinn Fein might want to mirror that by putting Michelle O'Neill

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there. Entirely possible. If you were a betting man? I have no vices

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whatsoever. You will have to wait till next week. A lot of people are

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suggesting on social media that Ian Paisley is in with a shout as the

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next leader of Sinn Fein after your comments tonight. Oh, sorry, the

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DUP. It doesn't matter who I want as the leader of Sinn Fein but what

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they're skills are. Skills that will include building a relationship to

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move the executive forward. That is where the lessons learned from the

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last number of weeks about how we try to create that Russian ship are

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important because they need political craft and -- relationship.

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They need political craft. Arlene Foster has your full support as

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leader? Yes. What would happen for that to change? For her to retire.

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And that would be her decision. Do you think that is imminent with the

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way the RHI thing has been handled? I have seen much adjusted to Connor

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and I almost felt sorry for him for a moment. I think a lot of people

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are saying that after what you were saying today it would like a pitch

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for leadership of your party. Are you positioning yourself in case

:25:30.:25:34.

Arlene Foster does not make it to them? -- until autumn. Are you going

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for director-general of the BBC? I don't think that position is

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available. Exactly it is an irrelevant question. Who needs to

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take over Sinn Fein? Someone without military involvement or a background

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in IRA? That is happening anyway. Time is passing and none of us are

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getting any younger who have been around in the 70s and 80s and I

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think that new generation is taking over. I'm not too sure the

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leadership of Sinn Fein is a vital issue. Connor referred to the fact

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that Martin had said he was disappointed and two governments in

:26:25.:26:28.

the last period of time. I would also echo that, that I would be

:26:29.:26:34.

disappointed at the distance the government has kept even when they

:26:35.:26:37.

tell us that they were there and they were up and down, foreign

:26:38.:26:40.

affairs are there, British government are there, they are

:26:41.:26:47.

keeping a watching rather than acting brief and I think next time

:26:48.:26:50.

we would need the involvement of both governments to bring this

:26:51.:26:55.

about. There is a growing danger that the institutions will not be

:26:56.:26:59.

re-established again. We will leave that there are.

:27:00.:27:03.

On last week's programme the Communities Minister,

:27:04.:27:06.

Paul Givan, made comments about the Finucane family

:27:07.:27:08.

during a discussion about the Renewable Heat Incentive scheme.

:27:09.:27:10.

We have been asked by the Finucane family to clarify

:27:11.:27:13.

that it has no position on the Renewable Heat

:27:14.:27:15.

Mr Givan went on to make reference to Sinn Fein advancing

:27:16.:27:19.

The Finucane family has asked us to make it clear

:27:20.:27:22.

that it does not support, or form part of, any

:27:23.:27:25.

The BBC regrets any distress caused to the Finucane family by those

:27:26.:27:30.

Now, we've become used to at least one politcal story every day,

:27:31.:27:37.

and today didn't disappoint with the news of that public inquiry

:27:38.:27:41.

-- that we were hoping to talk about but didn't quite get onto any detail

:27:42.:27:54.

of. In a moment we'll hear

:27:55.:27:55.

from the three opposition parties, There are shortcomings, for example

:27:56.:28:03.

ministerial interference and I pledge I will not interfere in this

:28:04.:28:09.

inquiry. Another shortcoming is that it is delivered to the minister so I

:28:10.:28:13.

make a pledge on Battle of Sinn Fein and myself that we will ensure any

:28:14.:28:18.

report that is delivered was directed the public. Set the

:28:19.:28:23.

shortcomings aside. Time is short. Any investigation or inquiry would

:28:24.:28:26.

have to go to the Assembly next week. The only route possible is a

:28:27.:28:30.

public inquiry and I have chosen that and I think the public welcome

:28:31.:28:34.

mat. They understand politicians fight their corner but there comes a

:28:35.:28:38.

time to make a decision. We welcome the change of heart from Sinn Fein

:28:39.:28:44.

in setting up this public inquiry. It is something I have been wanting

:28:45.:28:47.

for some considerable time. I think it was mid December when I said we

:28:48.:28:53.

wanted to take place. Earlier this week I wrote to the other parties

:28:54.:29:00.

and indeed Sinn Fein, suggesting a way forward but now I am very

:29:01.:29:03.

pleased that the inquiry is come to be set up and that finally we will

:29:04.:29:09.

get some due process in and around these matters and we will get to the

:29:10.:29:15.

truth about what happened in relation to the RHI scheme. As was

:29:16.:29:22.

confirmed yesterday in the committee I have absolutely nothing to hide.

:29:23.:29:25.

Joining me now are Nichola Mallon from the SDLP and Stephen Farry

:29:26.:29:28.

I do want to talk to you about RHI but I can't not talk to you about

:29:29.:29:42.

the retirement of Martin McGuinness. Extraordinary comments from Ian

:29:43.:29:46.

Paisley about the significance of Martin McGuinness's role. Philip,

:29:47.:29:51.

forgive me for saying, they are in stark contrast to the tribute paid

:29:52.:29:58.

by the -- your party leader this evening. Do you accept that? I wish

:29:59.:30:03.

Martin McGuinness well in his retirement and I hope he has a

:30:04.:30:07.

recovery from his illness. Undoubtedly, he has been on a

:30:08.:30:13.

journey from IRA commander and meeting the Queen, it's just a pity

:30:14.:30:19.

that as the leader of an organisation that made short the

:30:20.:30:23.

journey of many hundreds if not thousands of victims with their

:30:24.:30:30.

futile terrorist campaign that he couldn't in his words tonight

:30:31.:30:33.

actually expressed regret for the many victims that his organisation

:30:34.:30:39.

created. His past was more important than his present? He has been on a

:30:40.:30:42.

journey and I recognise that but we cannot forget the past and many

:30:43.:30:46.

hundreds if not thousands of victims. Undoubtedly, Martin has

:30:47.:30:52.

underwent a huge transformation and a very big political and personal

:30:53.:30:57.

journey. The true sign of leadership is having the courage to lead,

:30:58.:31:01.

bringing people with you and reach out to those who have been hurt.

:31:02.:31:06.

Martin has demonstrated he has all those qualities. The big challenge

:31:07.:31:11.

now is for those who are to step into his shoes. That type of

:31:12.:31:16.

leadership is needed now more than ever. Your thoughts on it. You have

:31:17.:31:21.

no difficulty paying tribute to him but how do you strike the balance

:31:22.:31:25.

can be constructive role and his past? I wished him well on Monday in

:31:26.:31:31.

the assembly. He is a leader and has travelled a very long distance and

:31:32.:31:34.

particularly his relationship with Ian Paisley was important and it

:31:35.:31:39.

shows that leadership has to be based not on just institutions but

:31:40.:31:45.

on mutual respect and trust. At the same time, this is the bigger issue

:31:46.:31:48.

than Martin McGuinness stepping down. There are some deep divisions

:31:49.:31:54.

between the parties, problems with the structures. He is going to be a

:31:55.:31:58.

very difficult act to follow in terms of what comes next. Let's talk

:31:59.:32:03.

about our each eye, that's what you are here to discuss. Under any other

:32:04.:32:10.

circumstances, do the programme would have been directed towards

:32:11.:32:13.

RHI. Were going to get more details in the assembly next week on the

:32:14.:32:18.

Finance Minister's public enquiry. It looks like you're getting what

:32:19.:32:23.

you want in terms of the public enquiries. Have Sinn Fein managed to

:32:24.:32:26.

outmanoeuvre or all of the parties by doing what they've done today? We

:32:27.:32:31.

sought to significant U-turns today, one from Sinn Fein and the DUP. Sinn

:32:32.:32:37.

Fein's U-turn was on the public enquiry. I was on the radio this

:32:38.:32:42.

morning and he was adamant there wasn't going to be a public enquiry

:32:43.:32:47.

and by early evening we've had someone saying the exact opposite.

:32:48.:32:52.

It's what you wanted. They may have come late to the party as far as

:32:53.:32:55.

you're concerned but never last Sinn Fein is doing what you wanted it to

:32:56.:33:00.

do. We will wait to see the detail of it next week from the statement

:33:01.:33:07.

to the assembly. I would have preferred the Secretary of State to

:33:08.:33:12.

have been leading on it and I hope whatever he proposes, there will be

:33:13.:33:18.

a preliminary report before action. Doesn't actually matter? You say

:33:19.:33:21.

you'd prefer the Secretary of State to be leading on it. It is going to

:33:22.:33:26.

be led by a judge, hopefully appointed by the Lord Chief Justice.

:33:27.:33:32.

That's what we want to see. That's what's happening. The Lord Chief

:33:33.:33:35.

Justice is happening. He was bitterly terms of residence

:33:36.:33:43.

together? More of that next week. A smart move by Sinn Fein. There has

:33:44.:33:47.

been flip-flopping in recent weeks, Declan made the case this morning on

:33:48.:33:52.

BBC radio Ulster in addition to be a public enquiry and then by tea-time

:33:53.:33:55.

there has been a U-turn. The point is it's happening. It is finally

:33:56.:34:01.

happening. The gathering by Sinn Fein over the past 30 days has cost

:34:02.:34:06.

the taxpayer two point three ?5 million. It is cause them a lot of

:34:07.:34:12.

money for every day the debt owed. This scandal didn't just come on

:34:13.:34:18.

Sinn Fein's horizon when the BBC ran the Spotlight programme. The me

:34:19.:34:22.

about it in February and it cost ?20 million, that we have been

:34:23.:34:27.

consistently Colin the three parties very public enquiry and finally a

:34:28.:34:30.

significant cost to the taxpayer, it Sinn Fein are done the right thing.

:34:31.:34:35.

That is to be welcomed. There can be no political interference in this.

:34:36.:34:39.

The appointee must be on the recommendation of the Lord Chief

:34:40.:34:45.

Justice and the report must be published up its immediate

:34:46.:34:50.

completion. We are very clear... March movie and has said it will

:34:51.:34:55.

happen. It would have been much better if Sinn Fein is keen to this

:34:56.:34:58.

position earlier on because it wouldn't have done the damage that

:34:59.:35:02.

it has done and it would have done the damage has done to the public

:35:03.:35:08.

purse. James Brokenshire Shire said the announcement is important to the

:35:09.:35:11.

confidence in the ability of the institutions to deliver and help set

:35:12.:35:16.

the tone for the election to come. Do you agree? Misses commentary from

:35:17.:35:19.

the sidelines in the Secretary of State who could have called this

:35:20.:35:22.

public enquiry several weeks ago in line with some of the warnings we

:35:23.:35:28.

were given. Does it matter? The point is it's happening. I welcome

:35:29.:35:32.

the fact were having it but I angry and frustrated. This could have

:35:33.:35:38.

happened many weeks ago. In that interval we have seen our political

:35:39.:35:41.

institutions collapse. It is uncertain if they are going to be

:35:42.:35:47.

restored. We have a very long potential gap between restoration.

:35:48.:35:51.

The establishment of a public enquiry would have saved the

:35:52.:35:55.

institution. You can reasonably say the blockage around the RHI scandal

:35:56.:36:01.

was the final straw and there were structural problems

:36:02.:36:02.

behind-the-scenes, tension is building up over Brexit. This was

:36:03.:36:11.

the straw that broke the camel's back. If this had beaten to -- that

:36:12.:36:16.

plays much earlier, we wouldn't have had a situation where we don't have

:36:17.:36:21.

a budget, no plans in terms of Brexit. There is a real pain down

:36:22.:36:26.

the tracks for the fact we don't have the Government in Northern

:36:27.:36:28.

Ireland and no one is going to be arraigned for several months taking

:36:29.:36:32.

decisions and that could have been avoided. Simon Hamilton has said he

:36:33.:36:36.

is publishing the names at the recipients of the RHI scheme next

:36:37.:36:42.

Wednesday. Do you welcome mat? Absolutely, if he is filled his

:36:43.:36:48.

promise. Are you clear of what that means? Not in terms of what he is

:36:49.:36:53.

promising to do. Arlene Foster has promised a public enquiry in other

:36:54.:36:56.

proposals that never actually came for it. We will wait and see what

:36:57.:37:01.

comes forward. I mentioned earlier to U-turns. The DUP this special

:37:02.:37:09.

advisers, one has no stood aside and one has resigned from their post

:37:10.:37:11.

after saying there was nothing to see here. They both maintain that

:37:12.:37:21.

position? Why has he resigned? He's become a distraction is the

:37:22.:37:25.

explanation. We are seeing bureaucracy within the DUP. The

:37:26.:37:29.

power they seem to have within other organisations. I just wonder who is

:37:30.:37:35.

making the decisions. Is it elected politicians are special advisers?

:37:36.:37:38.

That is something that will come out of this public enquiry. Is the

:37:39.:37:43.

publication significant? It is very important we get the heart of who

:37:44.:37:48.

has benefited -- benefit from this scheme. We need also remember there

:37:49.:37:53.

is a number of organisations and businesses that Anfield this scheme

:37:54.:37:56.

in the right way, there were those that abused it. We mustn't allow to

:37:57.:38:00.

happen is for companies and visitors who have done no wrong because they

:38:01.:38:04.

legitimately appealed the scheme to be used as scapegoats. Was there any

:38:05.:38:11.

evidence that would be the case? It is something we have to be concerned

:38:12.:38:15.

about. There is a mudslinging campaign or people are accused of

:38:16.:38:18.

doing things wrong with that they haven't. There are people within the

:38:19.:38:21.

political system that had done things wrong. You can't say you want

:38:22.:38:28.

to protect these businesses who have quite legitimately taken out an

:38:29.:38:31.

investment through the RHI scheme and at the same time complain about

:38:32.:38:37.

losing ?85,000 a day and ?20 million a year. It's got to be one or the

:38:38.:38:42.

other. It's not about the protection of farms. It's finding out who

:38:43.:38:47.

benefit. We are finding out who abuse the scheme and who were in

:38:48.:38:50.

positions of authority, what they knew, when they knew it and what

:38:51.:38:57.

they did did not do to try to it. VDU PR Bisley has its bad troubles.

:38:58.:39:01.

Maybe Arlene Foster can have a spring in her step in the end of the

:39:02.:39:06.

week now that the permanent secretary has said there was no

:39:07.:39:09.

evidence of any wrongdoing on her part that he could see. He as a

:39:10.:39:13.

civil servant is not going to challenge her. He gave a very

:39:14.:39:20.

straight and serve. It was following the advice of the civil servant.

:39:21.:39:24.

Ministers are there to set the policy and scrutinise what's coming

:39:25.:39:30.

forward from their officials. I would also stressed that special

:39:31.:39:35.

advisers act solely on behalf of ministers. The are fully accountable

:39:36.:39:39.

for the action of his special adviser whether the actions are

:39:40.:39:43.

authorised not. If special advisers are involved in the actions, the

:39:44.:39:48.

ministers do have to be accountable. No doubt that is something the

:39:49.:39:53.

enquiry will look at in considerable detail. Thank you all very much.

:39:54.:39:56.

And joining me now in Commentators' Corner are Newton Emerson

:39:57.:39:58.

That alter course. In a direction I didn't necessarily anticipate. --

:39:59.:40:15.

that all took off. What you make of the tribute Ian Paisley me to Martin

:40:16.:40:22.

McGuinness tonight? His father's enemy and latter-day friend? You

:40:23.:40:26.

could say it was extraordinary, it's show stopping. It properly did make

:40:27.:40:29.

people take a second look and think did I really hear that? He is in the

:40:30.:40:37.

spirit that we need more generosity, more compassion. What he has said

:40:38.:40:43.

does not in any way diminish his Unionist credentials, he still

:40:44.:40:45.

supports the union but he is able to see that Martin McGuinness was a

:40:46.:40:49.

peacemaker, that he pushed the boundaries and I thought it was

:40:50.:40:54.

interesting that he said because of Martin McGuinness people alive today

:40:55.:40:56.

that otherwise wouldn't have been. He didn't focus on the negative, he

:40:57.:41:02.

could have. What is fascinating, if you took a random sample of 50

:41:03.:41:07.

members of the DUP and put them in that seat, how many of them would

:41:08.:41:13.

say anything close to what he said? Almost none. Ian Paisley is not in

:41:14.:41:17.

the leadership of the DUP so a remark like this can only be aimed

:41:18.:41:23.

at the leadership of the DUP. A to think that was a formidable pitch

:41:24.:41:27.

for the leadership of the future. In my view, he is very clearly and

:41:28.:41:31.

correctly judged what has gone wrong which is very much the style and

:41:32.:41:37.

tone of the present leadership. It explains an absurd extent,

:41:38.:41:40.

everything that has gone wrong at the moment. We did see signs today

:41:41.:41:44.

that Arlene Foster is beginning to... Was that a thinly veiled

:41:45.:41:50.

criticism of the leadership of Arlene Foster? It was very fierce!

:41:51.:41:59.

And being diplomatic. She is down and he has given her a kicking. You

:42:00.:42:06.

seriously think as much as that? He was basically saying what we are

:42:07.:42:10.

missing here is the ability to build relationships, to be pragmatic, to

:42:11.:42:15.

be progressive. Which isn't to say you should welcome an amazing

:42:16.:42:18.

demonstration of what it all like that can achieve. It was a very

:42:19.:42:25.

assertive to Arlene Foster. All focused on the person of Martin

:42:26.:42:28.

McGuinness. Ian Paisley throws no punches on other issues when the

:42:29.:42:36.

notion takes them. He's also saying the politics of Northern Ireland are

:42:37.:42:40.

at risk here and he is recognising the danger that if we don't sort

:42:41.:42:44.

this out, we are looking into a very precarious future. In that sense, he

:42:45.:42:53.

is... Although there are many tears not shared Martin McGuinness inside

:42:54.:42:57.

the DUP at the note you will be difficult to replace. The are not

:42:58.:43:02.

concerned about more assertive Sinn Fein but we don't think the talent

:43:03.:43:08.

is there. That has an interesting point. Conor Murphy was very cagey

:43:09.:43:11.

about whether he is going to be taking over from Martin McGuinness.

:43:12.:43:15.

After what he said, you would properly think not. Martin

:43:16.:43:18.

McGuinness suggesting he's going to be an inspirational choice. I

:43:19.:43:22.

thought a head towards Michelle O'Neill? In recent days, the mood

:43:23.:43:27.

has been moving towards Michelle O'Neill. She has been described as

:43:28.:43:31.

their senior minister and of good money, the betting money on her. She

:43:32.:43:38.

is clearly up for the replacement. Maybe we will know this time next

:43:39.:43:40.

week. Thank you. That's it from The View

:43:41.:43:41.

for this week. Join me for Sunday Politics

:43:42.:43:43.

at 11.35 here on BBC One. So, from tomorrow we will have a new

:43:44.:43:46.

man in the top job across the pond. But let's not forget

:43:47.:43:50.

the guy that's leaving. He and his family have given us

:43:51.:43:52.

some memorable moments. Donald Trump, tweeting out insults

:43:53.:43:54.

to Angela Merkel?! This gives the Internet one last

:43:55.:44:55.

chance to talk about our bromance. I have two more words to say. Obama

:44:56.:44:56.

out. With visitors to

:44:57.:44:57.

Northern Ireland on the rise,

:44:58.:45:01.

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