Browse content similar to 06/04/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tactics and tough talk - the Secretary of State warns | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
the health service here will be in danger if devolution isn't | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
restored, while Sinn Fein hits back saying he has a "brass neck". | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
Tonight on The View - with new deadlines looming | :00:11. | :00:12. | |
and Easter round the corner, where are the negotiations? | :00:13. | :00:37. | |
With Sinn Fein saying little progress has been made, | :00:38. | :00:39. | |
what consequences of the deadlock are now starting to be felt? | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
I'll be asking our Political Editor, Mark Devenport, for his take | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
on events, and hearing from the health and business sectors | :00:47. | :00:50. | |
Also tonight, cultural identity has been a disputed | :00:51. | :00:56. | |
issue in Northern Ireland since the creation of the state, | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
but we're not the only place where language can pose problems. | :00:59. | :01:06. | |
I be reporting from Cardiff. Could measures in place here for the Welsh | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
language assist those who want to see an Irish act? | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
Plus, meet the Sinn Fein MLA whose sweet tooth drives him nuts. | :01:16. | :01:23. | |
It's like East Germany and West Germany, but that's where I have to | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
go to get my Snickers! And the fearless pair | :01:28. | :01:31. | |
in Commentators' Corner are Fionnuala O Connor | :01:32. | :01:33. | |
and Alex Kane. So, four days into a new round of | :01:34. | :01:36. | |
talks to save the Stormont institutions, it appears the chances | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
of a deal look as far away as ever. Tonight Michelle O'Neill told | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
a public meeting in Londonderry the next week is critical, | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
and there's been little Her comments come after | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
the Secretary of State suggested the health service is just one | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
of the public services that could But the remarks drew | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
a scathing response from Sinn Fein's | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
Mairtin O Muilleoir. I'm here at a hospital underlining | :02:01. | :02:14. | |
of the public services that are looking for certainty, looking for | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
an executive being in place to be able to make decisions. Whilst, yes, | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
we've got the money continuing to flow through, we've got public | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
services that are looking for political certainty on | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
decision-making. The last time I saw James | :02:30. | :02:33. | |
Brokenshire up close, I was sure he had a brass neck. Because the Main | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
pressure on our public services is the austerity agenda of the Tory | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
government. He has removed 10% from our budgets over the period of the | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
last assembly, and he anticipates and predicts and intends to impose | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
another 10% decrease. The issue of public services, particularly the | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
health service, and this is true of the Tories and the austerity agenda | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
in Britain, is not enough money is being provided. | :03:00. | :03:01. | |
Our Political Editor, Mark Devenport, is with me now. | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
We saw the Secretary of State at Antrim Area Hospital - a pretty | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
transparent tactic. Mairtin O Muilleoir says he has a brass neck. | :03:11. | :03:20. | |
It was maybe a little bit heavy-handed, but obviously there | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
are starting to be some real-world consequences in relation to the | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
Stormont crisis. We've yet to see how it may pan out in terms of | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
health we have certainly seen complaints of budgets being cut by | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
the education authority in pre-emptive action of what is going | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
to be missing if they get a reduced budget. We've also heard about a | :03:41. | :03:47. | |
housing executive budget relying on supporting people, which is | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
important for people such as victims of domestic violence. That has also | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
taken a 5% cut apparently equivalent to ?3 million. The Rockies | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
consequences, but the question is -- so there are these consequences, but | :04:02. | :04:04. | |
the question is would produce results? I'm told that in the talks | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
ruined the main parties still have horns locked in a couple of | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
essential point is, whether it be the Irish language or legacy, and | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
there have been very little sign of movement. Then we had a significant | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
contribution from Michelle O'Neill in Derry tonight. What did you make | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
of what she's had to say? It's similar to what she was saying in | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
the great Hall of Stormont during the week when she said very little | :04:30. | :04:33. | |
progress had been made. She was essentially warning the that unless | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
Sinn Fein gets the movement is looking for, like the Irish language | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
Bill of Rights and the legacy of the troubles, the institutions have the | :04:41. | :04:49. | |
-- the institutions cannot be restored. The benign view will be | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
maybe things will be more real next week. The less benign view is that | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
this isn't just shadow-boxing before they do a deal, it is a process that | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
lacks momentum. We've had comments from the DUP to this programme | :05:05. | :05:08. | |
tonight will stop we want to see devolution up and running again as | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
soon as possible. No preconditions, no list of red lines, keen to | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
deliver on issues like the health service as soon as we can. They have | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
always said we have no red lines, we're not holding off. We would have | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
nominated Arlene Foster if that wasn't a problem long before now. | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
There are a number of issues here on which the raw great difficulties on | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
legacy. We know that there is difficulty about national security | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
and what can be disclosed to the families, and what the families want | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
in relation to that. On the Irish language I'm told that the DUP is | :05:44. | :05:47. | |
still looking for an omnibus language act which would include | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
Ulster, Scots and the Irish language. Whereas Sinn Fein, they | :05:51. | :05:57. | |
say we need a bespoke Irish Language Act. If I was to borrow this down, | :05:58. | :06:01. | |
what could be a deal? You could imagine that if Sinn Fein was to | :06:02. | :06:07. | |
give up its line in terms of not sharing power with Arlene Foster, | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
and on the other hand the DUP was to say, you can have your Irish | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
Language Act, that might be the big compromise. Back amid very quickly, | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
but is there any sign that they want to do that? -- that can be done very | :06:20. | :06:22. | |
quickly. I'm joined now by John Compton, | :06:23. | :06:23. | |
the former Chief Executive of the Health and Social Care Board, | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
and from our Foyle Studio by Sinead McLaughlin, | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
Chief Executive of Londonderry John, you read this week in the | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
Belfast Telegraph that the political impasse prose is a very real threat | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
to the functioning of our health and social care service will stop -- | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
poses a very real threat. How worried are you? There are three big | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
problems in the health service. Their performance, waiting times, | :06:48. | :06:54. | |
and money. You can't make much progress in any of those if you | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
don't have political leadership and political decision-making around to | :06:59. | :07:01. | |
effect the changes that need to be made. And I think we could well be | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
sleepwalking into quite a serious crisis, as far as the health service | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
is concerned, if we don't actually have that sort of leadership and | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
decision-making in the future. No one dispute that the stakes are | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
high, but it has to be said there were problems before this political | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
impasse. So it is not all down to the current deadlock. It is not, and | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
I'm not a politician here about the politics of the thing. I just look | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
at it, and what I see is for example on the money side, after the | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
organisation made their ?60-80 million, they are still going to be | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
much short. That means there will be longer rationing is of waiting | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
times. In the absence of a political system and a political | :07:50. | :07:51. | |
decision-making, that can only be more difficult for us all. You've | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
talked about a potential health overspend of something in the region | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
of ?300 million this year. That's a big figure. I think what'll happen | :08:00. | :08:06. | |
if it may well not reach that full overspend. What that will be as | :08:07. | :08:10. | |
rationing and curtailment of services. If you like, that they | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
pass the decision not to do things, but it's a decision we will all | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
experience. Sinead, you are due to meet Michelle O'Neill in Derry | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
tonight. What were the concerns that you wanted to put to her during a | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
conversation? Well, the business community, from our point of view, | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
the big concern is Brexit. Article 50 was triggered last Wednesday. The | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
negotiations have started and we do not have a voice at the table. We | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
have outsourced our voice to Dublin, to London and indeed to Brussels. | :08:43. | :08:47. | |
Really, that's just not good enough. That was the concern that I put to | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
her. I realise political parties don't want to forsake their | :08:51. | :09:01. | |
ideology. That is as it is. But we are in a precedent Challenger as a | :09:02. | :09:03. | |
result of Brexit in Northern Ireland, and in the Republic of | :09:04. | :09:10. | |
Ireland, and many a political voice within the exec -- and we need a | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
political voice within the executive to articulate the needs of the | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
electorate. As the business community, we don't want to | :09:19. | :09:20. | |
metaphorically beat our politicians up. We want to support them and | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
ensure that they do the right thing for the people and for the business | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
community within this island, and within Northern Ireland. Just to be | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
clear, are you saying that the restoration of the devolved | :09:35. | :09:36. | |
institutions is the only way that you think these issues are going to | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
be dealt with? And what was Michelle O'Neill's response to that | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
suggestion when you put it to her? Brexit is a political problem. It is | :09:46. | :09:51. | |
not a problem that can be solved by the business community. We can | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
support, but there needs to be an articulation on paper put forward by | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
the Northern Ireland executive. They need to have a unity of purpose. | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
This affects everybody's life. This is not a party political situation, | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
this is a situation that we have never experienced in our lifetime. | :10:10. | :10:16. | |
To have no voice in the middle of all this is just a dereliction of | :10:17. | :10:23. | |
duty. But, of course... At this point in time we need an budget as | :10:24. | :10:30. | |
the first issue and Brexit at the second. The world is moving on, but | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
we feel left behind. You have said you don't want to regard Brexit as | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
party political, but the reality is that Michelle O'Neill with so Brexit | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
is a big issue and she thinks that a major threat to the island. But the | :10:42. | :10:49. | |
other main party for the biggest party in Northern Ireland -- of the | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
other main party in Northern Ireland sees Brexit as an opportunity. There | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
are challenges around Northern Ireland and there needs to be a | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
voice and a position set. Because we are asking Brussels to look upon | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
Northern Ireland as a unique set of circumstances. Yet there is no | :11:12. | :11:13. | |
articulation to the Dublin government, and even to a unified | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
voice to London to negotiate on our behalf. And it's just unacceptable. | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
It's a political situation that needs to be resolved by politicians | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
with the help of civic society. John, you whether to the idea of a | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
return to devolution, or is it possible that under direct rule, the | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
difficult decisions and accountable politicians are frankly reluctant or | :11:37. | :11:42. | |
unable to make might be pushed through and Westminster? I suppose | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
that's a possibility, but it would be such a disappointment if that is | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
the case that we have a society couldn't take decision is | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
fundamental for ourselves. As she later said, this is not about | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
hunting the big politicians up. It is about recognising that there are | :11:57. | :12:03. | |
serious issues in the Business Secretary Hull sex and health | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
sector. In the health sector, we spend -- in the business sector and | :12:09. | :12:15. | |
health sector. Or 1.8 million people use the service. It is a very | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
compelling argument to sit down around the table and come to a | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
conclusion where we can have a government that looks after that and | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
take the necessary decisions for the future. The chances are, of course, | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
that you wouldn't find a politician in Northern Ireland who didn't agree | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
with what you've just that. But the point would be they would say that | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
the reason we are in the predicament that we are in is somebody else's | :12:36. | :12:37. | |
fault and not their fault? Yes, but you are in the political | :12:38. | :12:49. | |
game to take leadership and demonstrate ownership. I would | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
encourage people to accept that and move on words. Otherwise we will | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
face considerable difficulties. I can talk about some of the | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
difficulties we might face in the health sector but it is not | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
exclusive to the health sector, it applies to the business sector, | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
community sector, voluntary sector. We have big issues to deal with. | :13:12. | :13:22. | |
Where do you think this period of deadlock leaves us as far as these | :13:23. | :13:29. | |
big decisions are? There will be work going on in the background but | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
in the end it needs to be politically driven and politically | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
led. You can't do it without political drive and the political | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
elite. It will run into a cul-de-sac without political support. That is | :13:44. | :13:50. | |
important because we need to reform our health and social care system. | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
There is no point about people complaining about rising costs in | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
the health system when we are not making the change that could prevent | :14:01. | :14:08. | |
and limit that. Sinead, McLaughlin, there are economists who think this | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
could work itself out in the wash, overplaying the fear of instability. | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
Do you sympathise with this customer that lack of an executive is hurting | :14:19. | :14:25. | |
businesses at the moment. Some Government contracts can't be | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
executed because of lack of money. Some in the community and voluntary | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
sector have had their jobs put on hold. This is hurting peoples | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
pockets. We need to address this sooner rather than later. Just | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
letting things just on is not a solution. I know our politicians | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
don't want to do that either. I think people need to come out of the | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
corners, move towards the centre, and deal with the big issues that | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
are facing the people of Northern Ireland today, not tomorrow, today. | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
Were you reassured at all on any of the issues that you have touched | :15:03. | :15:05. | |
upon tonight from what you heard from Michelle O'Neill? I believe | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
that there is a desire to move back into Government. They want | :15:12. | :15:17. | |
everything fixed before they do so and I don't think that that can | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
happen as easily as they would wish for. We need to make some sacrifices | :15:21. | :15:27. | |
and moved towards the centre and start delivering for the people of | :15:28. | :15:29. | |
Northern Ireland that voted for them. Thank you both very much. | :15:30. | :15:41. | |
Well, one of the sticking points in those talks, we're told, | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
is the establishment of an Irish Language Act. | :15:45. | :15:45. | |
So are there lessons our politicians could learn from how the issue's | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
We sent Stephen Walker to Cardiff to examine the Welsh model. | :15:49. | :16:01. | |
Six years ago Assembly members in Cardiff introduced new measures for | :16:02. | :16:08. | |
the Welsh language. It's meant for the first time that Wales could be | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
treated less favourably than English. The measures also | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
introduced the new position of Welsh language commissioner whose job was | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
to promote the language and penalise those who failed to comply with the | :16:20. | :16:28. | |
changes. Mary Hughes has been the | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
Commissioner for five years and she has to sanction those who failed to | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
comply with the regulations. We have two be tough but it is tough with an | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
explanation, a smile, and a way forward. That is the important | :16:43. | :16:49. | |
message. Where are we going? It's a road some Irish campaigners want to | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
travel. They would like a Commissioner. But in Cardiff there | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
are words of caution from this Northern Ireland born academic. It | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
can have certain benefits but the office has to be treated, design, | :17:04. | :17:11. | |
with the particular tasks in mind. Clarity on that is essential. I'm | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
not sure that the different actors that are engaged with the Irish | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
language agenda in Northern Ireland at present have got that clarity as | :17:21. | :17:27. | |
yet. The signs of change are everywhere to see in Wales. Welsh is | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
now on an equal footing with endless. | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
What can we learn from the Welsh experience? Can the plans here act | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
as a guide for those who want an Irish Language Act? After six years | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
in operation the proposals are being reviewed and straightforward | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
questions are being asked? What works and what doesn't? Susie Davis | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
is a Conservative Assembly Member who speaks English and Wales, she | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
says those campaigning for an Irish Language Act Commission need to | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
think carefully. If you are going to have an Irish language Commissioner | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
focus on the promotion and benefits of being bilingual, rather than the | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
insistence on certain rules and regulations. If you wanted to be | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
something that people look at in a positive way and our Boly -- and see | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
a value, and economic value as well, explain that, rather than being told | :18:27. | :18:33. | |
it is good for you. The context of another ties language such that you | :18:34. | :18:36. | |
need legislation to guarantee rates for those people. Without that | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
legislation, that body to protect those rights, it is like many other | :18:42. | :18:49. | |
qualities, you need basic fundamental rights guaranteed by | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
law. The difference between the debate in Wales about languages, and | :18:55. | :18:58. | |
a discussion in Northern Ireland is stark. In Cardiff is a political | :18:59. | :19:04. | |
consensus. In Belfast there is a stalemate. It is different in | :19:05. | :19:07. | |
Northern Ireland because you have got two distinct cultures there. But | :19:08. | :19:14. | |
it is a matter of showing respect, respect to each other, mutual | :19:15. | :19:22. | |
respect. Because the Irish community respect the Unionist tradition and | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
vice versa, that should be a way of communicating. What advice does the | :19:27. | :19:34. | |
Welsh language minister have for those opposed to an Irish language | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
act? I would say embrace the language, embrace the culture, | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
embrace it as part of your identity. We have taken politics out of the | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
language and we have all benefited, Welsh speakers and non-Welsh | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
speakers alike. How does he his politics and his identity with the | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
Welsh language? I'm a Unionist and I speak Welsh. My children speak Welsh | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
and go to Welsh language schools. I speak Welsh when I am at home as | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
well as at work. It is part of my identity, my cultural experience, | :20:08. | :20:11. | |
part of my future, part of my British future, I don't need to | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
choose between being British and Welsh, I can have both. It's clear | :20:15. | :20:19. | |
that those thoughts are sheared and other parties. I don't like either | :20:20. | :20:26. | |
language being used as a weapon. I accept my identity might have | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
changed now I have this new skill but it does not affect me as a | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
Unionist, I am as British as I once was. What could change the debate | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
about an Irish language act? Mythology creates fear. One of the | :20:40. | :20:42. | |
important thing is to get rid of any meths. Look at what you are trying | :20:43. | :20:50. | |
to do, you are trying to create an energetic bilingual community. In | :20:51. | :20:53. | |
order to do that you need to be able to talk to each other. She | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
experiences. Pull down fences and stop the Welsh experience shows that | :20:59. | :21:13. | |
dialogue -- pull down fences. The Welsh experience shows that dialogue | :21:14. | :21:14. | |
can work. Stephen Walker reporting - | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
and with me now are the former Culture Minister, Nelson McCausland, | :21:22. | :21:23. | |
and Ian Malcolm who's an Irish Nelson McAusland, we heard from the | :21:24. | :21:34. | |
man responsible for the Welsh language, someone who describes | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
himself as a Unionist, saying he has no issue with an act that safeguards | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
and indigenous language, but there are problems with that in Northern | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
Ireland. Why is that the case? The Irish language has been used, abused | :21:48. | :21:54. | |
in many ways, by some of its advocates, for political ends. We | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
need to step back from the current confrontation that there is, where | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
one group says we want an Irish language, the other says you cannot | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
have it. We need to reframe the conversation because ultimately, | :22:10. | :22:15. | |
this is about cultural identity, and we need to look at the issue of | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
cultural identity in Northern Ireland, how it is affirmed and | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
validated, all cultural identities, not just one, all the different | :22:24. | :22:29. | |
cultural identities that we have. But the Irish language is not | :22:30. | :22:39. | |
necessarily monocultural. It is interesting that Alun Davies linked | :22:40. | :22:44. | |
the Welsh language of his Welsh identity, and this comes through | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
with Sinn Fein. It affirms my identity, validates, part of what | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
that person is. Identity is the real issue. You don't think that an Irish | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
Language Act, the right kind of Irish Language Act, could make it | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
attractive to Protestants, Unionists, who are perhaps not very | :23:07. | :23:10. | |
knowledgeable about it, or downright hostile towards it? There are many | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
people who have different cultural expressions. He needs to look at all | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
the different cultural expressions, all linguistic diversity, and see | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
how we treat all of these based on a word that Sinn Fein used, equality. | :23:25. | :23:30. | |
You are not a politician, but you broadcast in Irish, you teach the | :23:31. | :23:34. | |
language to a lot of people in Belfast. You have seen the language | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
could all over the years. Can you see fight Nelson McAusland sees the | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
language is there, people who want to learn it can learn it, we don't | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
beat an Irish Language Act to protect and promote it? It is | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
important to acknowledge that all of the political parties have their own | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
positions on the Irish language and indeed on many other matters. Those | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
decisions are -- those positions are strongly held and parties may feel | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
they are representing the wishes and views of the electorate. But we have | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
to seek another review of the Irish Language Act stop it is not | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
something that has always been political. There was a time when | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
there were people from both traditions and backgrounds in this | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
part of the world spoke Irish. We could go through a history lesson, | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
which I don't propose to do now, but Irish came to this island by the | :24:26. | :24:33. | |
Celts, and at that stage there were no Protestants, nor Catholics, | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
Unionists, nationalists, so language predates that. When it is said that | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
the Irish Language Act is an issue primarily to do with identity what | :24:45. | :24:48. | |
do you see? You are open about the fact that you are an Irish Language | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
Act is yes but you are also a Protestant and a Unionist. Yes, and | :24:52. | :24:57. | |
I am proud of my background. Do you see it as your Irishness and your | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
ability to speak and promote the Irish Language Act is also part of | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
your Protestant and Unionist tradition? I do very much because | :25:06. | :25:09. | |
during the 19th century, Presbyterians wear to the fore in | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
the preservation and promotion of the Irish language at a time when it | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
was in severe difficulty and in danger of dying out. On at least one | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
occasion Queen Victoria was welcomed to Belfast with slogans in Irish. It | :25:23. | :25:30. | |
was a very warm welcome from the Protestant people of Belfast to | :25:31. | :25:37. | |
Queen Victoria. Nelson McAusland might see that was then, this is no, | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
there has been a lot of water under the bridge since Queen Victoria was | :25:43. | :25:45. | |
last in Belfast. Indeed the House but I think we are moving back to a | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
position when people on both sides of the community are recognising | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
that the Irish Language Act something the interfaces on a daily | :25:52. | :25:58. | |
basis, and teams of surnames, place names, in terms of the way we use | :25:59. | :26:05. | |
the Irish language through English, words like Smithereens, derived from | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
Irish. Do you accept that as the case? There are people in this part | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
of the world to perhaps didn't grow up and running Irish, people from | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
the Protestant and Unionist tradition, who now do want to engage | :26:20. | :26:22. | |
with that in no way they maybe did not 20, 30 years ago? One of the | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
disappointments with a lot of the discussion is that it focuses on one | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
cultural expression, to the exclusion -- to the exclusion of all | :26:35. | :26:41. | |
others. I read the document issued by the Gaelic league critic put | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
forward a proposal for the Irish language act. The figure was | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
rejected by another Irish language activists who said it was | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
unrealistically low. But at least we are talking about figures. | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
Previously a proposal was published, and then we were told they did not | :27:02. | :27:10. | |
know what it was cost. 8.5 million, then 2 million per year for five | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
years, you toss about 100 million. I am probably an Agreement with the | :27:15. | :27:23. | |
statement that that figure was unrealistically low. It suits your | :27:24. | :27:25. | |
purpose is to agree with Janice Miller on that. We happen to agree. | :27:26. | :27:32. | |
That there's a reason for you not to want it. She said that as our | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
assessment, it is not for you to put interpretation on my motivation. | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
What I wanted to see about a leaked document is this, -- the Gaelic | :27:42. | :27:51. | |
league documents, it is not a separate issue, it is significant, | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
when the document that uses nationalist Republican language of | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
the north, they would not even use the term Northern Ireland, and that | :28:02. | :28:10. | |
is not the only document. How serious a point it is? I think it is | :28:11. | :28:16. | |
significantly. Your primary concern is about the | :28:17. | :28:26. | |
cost .dll you may not want to face the fact that is a national issue. | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
Is the issue of cost a major issue for you? Cost of a factor. If they | :28:31. | :28:40. | |
didn't cost anything, would support an Irish Language Act? There is no | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
point in having a discussion about something that is hypothetical. But | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
I will say this to you - I want legislation that accommodates all be | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
cultural traditions and linguistic traditions equally. No preferential | :28:53. | :28:59. | |
treatment from the Irish language or the Irish language community. | :29:00. | :29:06. | |
Everybody's culture. You will also unionist and interested in Orange | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
culture. Can you see where Nelson is coming from on that? As I said, I | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
understand that people have strongly held positions about the Irish | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
language. People feel as though some people do feel that it may be part | :29:21. | :29:25. | |
of a broader cultural issue. But I think really we have to cut through | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
some of the myths out there about the Irish language. I honestly think | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
they are put out there to scare people about a language act, in | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
terms of number one cause. I've spoken to many people from my | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
background recently about an Irish Language Act. And two fears are | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
reiterated and stated to me time and time again. One is that every child | :29:48. | :29:50. | |
in Northern Ireland would be forced to learn the Irish language in | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
school. That's not going to happen. The other fear that people have | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
expressed to me on many occasions is that every single document must be | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
translated into Irish as well as English. You don't think that would | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
happen? I do not think that would happen. What would you say to | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
Nelson, who has expressed in the way that he has done many times before | :30:12. | :30:17. | |
his severe reservations about an Irish Language Act? You think she's | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
got it wrong, why? I think we will have to move together. Obviously | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
talks are going on on the Irish language is one of many issues up | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
for discussion. The way to move forward is to try and garner a | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
consensus. First of all by looking at those areas in which an Irish | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
Language Act or progression of the Irish language could be made on | :30:41. | :30:43. | |
non-contentious issues. And there are many of those. Anyway towards | :30:44. | :30:50. | |
persuading new? I have no issue with the Irish language. I do have an | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
issue with the Irish Language Act and I have an issue with the way in | :30:54. | :30:57. | |
which the Irish language has been used by Sinn Fein and other | :30:58. | :31:00. | |
nationalists to further political agenda. Interesting to hear your | :31:01. | :31:02. | |
thoughts. And let's hear what our commentators | :31:03. | :31:03. | |
make of where we are. Fionnuala O Connor and Alex Kane | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
are with me tonight. Good evening to you both. That's | :31:07. | :31:13. | |
pick-up on that issue of language, first of all. We heard the | :31:14. | :31:20. | |
experience from Stephen Walker of Wales, and how language is dealt | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
with there. Do you think there is any way, Alex, of us learning | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
lessons from that experience in Cardiff? I would be cautious because | :31:29. | :31:31. | |
I think it's easy enough to say you are equally Welsh and British | :31:32. | :31:36. | |
because there is no chance of Wales becoming an independent country. My | :31:37. | :31:40. | |
own gut instinct is that there will be an Irish Language Act, not in the | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
next few weeks or months, but at some point. I just wish a debate | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
about it, which is important for both sides, had been held in the | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
circumstances. It has become a much more political debate than it should | :31:54. | :31:57. | |
be. The culture and history have been forgotten. The joint history | :31:58. | :32:00. | |
has been forgotten and Sinn Fein are using this for their own agenda. You | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
were unionist. Does the prospect of an Irish Language Act in Northern | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
Ireland were you? He doesn't worry me because I am confident in safe in | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
Unionism. There are lots of other cultures and traditions which need | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
to be respected. I can deal with all of that, but I am worried that we | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
have any of these debates where it seems to belong to one side or the | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
other. Fionnuala, what did you make of that? It seems that Nelson is not | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
persuadable, and that is someone who is a unionist and Protestant sat | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
alongside him who is an advocate for the Irish language. But Nelson isn't | :32:36. | :32:42. | |
biting. I'm reminded to rise above this. Two proverbs come to me, one | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
from the African-American tradition, when they go low, we go high. And | :32:48. | :32:56. | |
the other one, more knowledge unless wisdom. It seems to me that -- more | :32:57. | :33:03. | |
knowledge and less wisdom. It seems to me that this argument is all | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
about identity and we must have all cultures recognise. I don't think | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
Nelson means that for a minute. I do think he wants Bengali culture | :33:13. | :33:15. | |
recognised equally with Irish culture. -- I don't think he wants | :33:16. | :33:24. | |
Bengali culture. I would disagree completely with Alex, nobody has | :33:25. | :33:30. | |
mentioned the DUP's attitude to the Irish. It surprises me that in the | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
middle of talks after a very hard-fought and nasty election | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
campaign, after an awkward outcome for the DUP and for the union's | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
majority, that a leading unionist Vicar, albeit not an MLA any more, | :33:46. | :33:48. | |
should go out and maybe make things difficult for people who are trying | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
to negotiate. -- leading unionist figure. Gregory Campbell, | :33:54. | :34:04. | |
disparaging Irish in the crudest and very unattractive ways for years, is | :34:05. | :34:07. | |
nothing to do with cost or argument about recognising cultures. It is | :34:08. | :34:13. | |
just contempt for Irish. The DUP have suffered from that attitude | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
from Arlene Foster in the election outcome. Alex, let's briefly have a | :34:18. | :34:22. | |
word about the wider talks process and where we are, do you think, with | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
that? The Irish Language Act is apparently a sticking point. What | :34:28. | :34:30. | |
prospects for resolution by the end of next week? I don't see any | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
prospect that all. Given what is coming out and the lack of clarity | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
and progress. They may as well have been talking in Welsh for the past | :34:40. | :34:41. | |
week because they clearly don't understand what each other once. And | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
there is a third-party - James Brokenshire, he is not impartial by | :34:48. | :34:50. | |
any means. The British government has to compromise as well. Thank you | :34:51. | :34:53. | |
both very much. That's it from The View for this | :34:54. | :34:55. | |
and the next few weeks. We'll be back after Easter - | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
and we leave you with one intrepid MLA who was so hungry this week | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
that he stepped outside his comfort And obviously other | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
chocolate bars are available. So I'm on the third floor of | :35:05. | :35:20. | |
Stormont. This is the Sinn Fein side, and way down there is DUP | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
territory. It's a bit like East territory and West Germany, but | :35:27. | :35:29. | |
that's where I had to go to get my Snickers! -- East Germany and West | :35:30. | :35:37. | |
Germany. I am in no man's land now between the two areas. We are moving | :35:38. | :35:50. | |
into DUP territory. I had just passed Peter's office and I am | :35:51. | :35:58. | |
nearly there. I'm getting there. There is my Snickers, there! | :35:59. | :36:08. |