15/06/2017 The View

Is the deal between the Conservative Party and the DUP on or off?

And can an agreement to get Stormont up and running again be done

by the deadline that's been set for two week's time?

Tonight The View has come to London looking for answers.

Tonight we're in London to report on today's meetings

between the Northern Ireland parties and the Prime Minister.

Can the devolved institutions be brought back to life

And what's the status of that arrangement

the Ulster Unionists and Alliance - and we'll hear too from

Sinn Fein has made its annoyance at the prospect of a deal

between Theresa May and Arlene Foster abundantly clear.

The party's President, Gerry Adams, met the Prime Minister

in Downing Street late this afternoon - and before he went

into that meeting I asked him to talk me through his main concerns.

I asked to outline main concerns. This Government has been

consistently in default of the Good Friday Agreement. We expressed that.

Our concerns are in relation to Brexit. We argued for a designated

status for the north. Our concerns are that we need a criteria for a

referendum on Irish unity, that is clearly part of the Good Friday

Agreement, given that the Unionist majority has dipped below 50%, that

is clearly part of any criteria that there should be a referendum. And

Michelle O'Neill has consistently raised the need for institutions to

be viable which means they have to have capacity, be properly resourced

and funded, and we also pointed out that we will oppose any deal with

the DUP which undermines the Good Friday Agreement.

It looks like some kind of deal between the DUP and the

Conservatives to keep Theresa May at number ten is in the offing and is

nothing you can do about that, you have to accept that? We don't have

to accept anything. We have to work for all the people in Ireland, but

particularly those whom we represent from the north of Ireland and that

is our focus and we have consistently argued and we continue

to argue for a proper resources and financing of the institutions. We

made the point with Theresa May that she has to publicise any deal and

she gives a commitment that she would stop she said there would be

no under the table deals, whatever it is agreed would be open and

transparent, that is good news that Mac that is if you believe that. Do

you not believe it? We will have to see. The institutions are down.

Institutions could be put in place in a day. The issues which are

outstanding are already subject to previous agreements. I want to ask

you about Arlene Foster because that is not the previous Agreement, you

unilaterally and Sinn Fein have decided they don't want to work with

Arlene Foster and Government this side of an RHI report, are you

prepared to be flexible on that now that she has a thumping mandate

after the election? We have a thumping mandate also. So has she. I

am not disputing that. I think I fitted them last week, but it is

hoped the user. Arlene Foster needs to understand that that is to be

good governments, that you can't have that kind of scandal, and the

lying Minister, and she has been accused by a member of her own

party, of all sorts of corrupt activities. That is an allegation.

Yes, that is an allegation that a besotted that during the inquiry. I

have never subscribed to that. Why have you got that red playing?

Because people need to know that those they elected to serve them are

going to be accountable. Isn't the place to sort that out the inquiry

which is going to be taking place in the autumn? You are prejudging the

outcome of that. We are not prejudging the outcome of the

inquiry. We are asking for all of us in positions of power to be

contract, accountable to the people who depend on us. That is so much

money is wasted or misspent and we don't know the outcome of all of

that, if this was a minister here, they wouldn't last one day. She said

in the past there were issues going over the last few years but she

could have collapsed the executive when allegations were made about

Sinn Fein or of members of Sinn Fein. She chose not to do that. And

she does not like the fact that you are using this issue to keep the

institution closed down. We are not. We discussed very important issues

here. This issue, you have chosen to make the main item on our discussion

today, not me. Our position is clear and we have set this out. Arlene

Foster was one of the ministers that Martin McGuinness worked with. Ian

Paisley, Peter Robinson, and Arlene Foster. For Martin McGuinness to

resign was a very serious step for him. The issues that he set out need

to be resolved. Where Ari with James Brokenshire continuing with these

talks? There -- where are we with James Brokenshire? What talks has he

cheered? Who is chairing them at the moment? I am telling you that he has

never chaired the talks. How could anyone have any confidence in the

so-called neutrality of the British Government. The British Government

are not referees. We deal with James Brokenshire but he has to bring

issues to the table. There are big legacy issues which will continue to

bedevil the future because the British Government will not deal

with the past in the way they please to do in previous agreements. A lot

of people believe that you hold the key to the Stormont institutions

getting back up and running again. I don't know that is the case or not.

You say you want them up and running again as soon as possible, you said

the other day you want to see the map and running because is the best

liver Sinn Fein to deliver a united Ireland, was that the softening of

your position, preparing the ground to alter your position, to change

tack and get them back up and running? There is consistency in our

position. As they are, because you collapsed them a few months ago, no

people think you have changed your mind. No, we always wanted them up

and running, but with respect, with integrity, with tolerance, with good

manners, on the basis they were established in the first instance.

What are the chances of that in the short term? You see it could be done

within a day. What are the chances of that? That is the question have

to be to all the parties and the two governments. Every time I asked

somebody that they tell me they could put that up tomorrow but

nobody seems to illustrate any kind of compromise that would be

necessary. How can you compromise on an Agreement that hasn't been made?

Life will go on. Those who want not to speak Irish will not have to

speak Irish, but all of our lives will be enriched. The Bill of

rights, that is for everybody. Decency and manners, one to the

other, we can also better manners, I include myself in that. We can all

be shown better manners. The Unionists will see that you are

cherry picking. They will point to all kinds of things that members of

Sinn Fein said, and events that members of Sinn Fein attended, and

say that is not treating them with respect and integrity. My view is

that Arlene Foster knows that Sinn Fein want to be back in the

institutions. She knows that, when she acknowledges that is another

issue. She also knows the basis on which that can happen. It is not a

wish list. It is not a radical Republican agenda. It is the subject

of previous agreements which will enhance the lives of everyone.

The Conservative MP Bob Stewart sat on the Commons Select Committee

on Northern Ireland and the Defence Committee.

Do you see fresh and fearless coming from when it says it is not

comfortable at the prospect a deal between the DUP and your party to

keep Theresa May in Downing Street? I understand that that that is a

Chinese wall, the DUP will not be importing Northern Ireland politics

into the mainland, and secondly I don't trust anything that Gerry

Adams says at all. I think the Government will actually separate

out. Doesn't that continue to be the case that that this deal happens it

fundamentally undermines their rigorous impartiality that the Good

Friday Agreement required from the British and Irish governments and

his dealings and Northern Ireland? I hope not. I don't think so. We are

talking about devolution. I think that DUP would vote with the

Conservatives anyway. They did in the last parliament. There may not

need to be a deal. The last thing they want is Jeremy Corbyn marching

down to number ten Downing St. If that is the case why is Theresa May

putting so much effort to agreeing concessions with the DUP. Because

she has got to do the very best she can. But there are no concessions,

my friends in the DUP, and they are my friends, and I do not like people

implying they are in any way terrorists, I knew them a long time

ago when I was a soldier in Northern Ireland, they are decent,

honourable, hard-working and very brave. What do you make of comic

speed by your former party leader, John Major, who expressed his

reservations, saying any deal could threaten their fragile peace in

Northern Ireland? What do you make of the comments made by John Major?

When I was in their ground in Northern Ireland has Government was

talking to the provisional IRA. That last thing I want is someone -- as

someone that has spent a lot of my time in Northern Ireland is for the

Peace Process to be derailed, the last thing I want is for the

Government of this country to be derailed, both go hand in hand. Is

that not a risk of this deal goes through? John Major said he is

really an dubious of that deal. Do you have to take his views on board

as an early -- as an elder statesman? Of course. He was

instrumental in the early part of the Good Friday Agreement. We don't

have a choice. The last in the country wants is another general

election and the last thing we want in the Conservative Party is

anything that will threaten the stability of the country. But your

position seems to be that you are hoping Theresa May doesn't give too

much away in her negotiations with the DUP because you don't think that

would be a good thing and also you don't think it's necessary, because

the DUP, you have said, will never vote for Jeremy Corbyn anybody. I am

not involved in it. I don't know what the deal is, but I can tell you

this, I think most of the DUP would vote, they did in the last

Parliament, they voted with the Conservatives the entire time. It is

not in the interests of this Conservative Government goes down,

and I agree, the meat will not have a formal deal, it doesn't

necessarily need, but the fact of the matter is we need Government of

the country and we want to get what is happening in Northern Ireland

sorted out as well. As the position of Theresa May as leader of the

Conservative Party and Prime Minister secured in the short term?

It is secured not just in the short term, it is secure as far as the eye

can see. I don't expect she will be leading the Conservative Party at

the next general election because I think she will have had enough. She

is under huge pressure. She has accepted that she made a very big

mistake stop a lot of mistakes actually. But she has accepted that.

But we don't have a choice as a country. We need our Prime Minister.

People like myself will back out. But she has made mistakes and you

think she should not be leader in five years, she is a lame duck, that

is what you have effectively just said. You use those words. That is

my interpretation of what you have just said. Her power and authority

is diminished but she is still the Prime Minister and I will still back

her. Does she still have my support? Yes. For how much longer? Until the

country is in a stable enough condition, and in the right

condition for possible change. But we want to win that will be. How

long is a piece of string? Yesterday Jeremy Corbyn unveiled his

new Shadow Cabinet and Northern Ireland's position goes to Owen

Smith. I asked if I should be congratulating with them or

commiserating with him. You should definitely be congratulating me. One

of the greatest things any Labour Government has done is what the last

Labour Government did in Northern Ireland, bringing about

power-sharing arrangements, bringing peace to Northern Ireland, helping

to bring peace to Northern Ireland. We will always want to play our part

alongside the British Government and all the parties in Northern Ireland

to make sure those institutions are restored as quickly as possible and

making sure that peace and stability is restored. It is not only in

Westminster that we need strong and stable Government, really that in

Belfast as well. Theresa May has been talking about restoring

devolution. You are the shadow Secretary of State for Northern

Ireland, will we see the continuation of a bipartisan

approach Northern Ireland? Yes, there should not be backsliding on

that, we need to work with the British Government, make sure there

is a united view about who we take things forward and I will be looking

to work with James Brokenshire, I will meet as soon as possible, and

make sure that we are working hand in hand.

Everyone is talking about this emerging deal between the DUP and

the Conservative Party. What is viewed view of what seems to be

happening there? We have not seen the details of the deal yet, but we

know that is going to be ideal. I share the concerns that many people

have expressed. It will be difficult for the Government to approve that

they are impartial brokers, impartial arbiters in the process in

Northern Ireland if they are being propped up by one of the key players

in the process in the parliament here at Westminster. They will need

to work very hard to persuade the other parties in Northern Ireland

that they are truly impartial, and I think they have a job of work in

their hands to do that. It is interesting that Theresa May has had

to get all the parties you to meet higher in London. She hasn't really

engaged in the politics of Northern Ireland previously, something we

have gently criticise her for, and I think it does tell you something

that she is needing to do this now only because of the mess she finds

herself and politically at Westminster. You the deal to restore

devolution as Stormont can be achieved in two weeks because that

is the deadline? I have been opposed by one day, but my impression

already, I have talked to a lot of people are random process, and I

think there is a clear desire to do a deal. That is clearly a deep

dissatisfaction with evolution been suspended, I don't think anybody

wants direct rule over Northern Ireland. I am a devolutionist and I

think everyone involved was to see Les institutions up and running as

quickly as possible. Some of the other parties believe that James

Brokenshire is not in a position to be an impartial arbiter in this

process because the conserver party is about to enter an agreement with

the DUP. Do you accept that? We can all see their potential that this is

a big conflict of interest. It is difficult for him to be both

impartial brokers and part of a Government supported by the DUP.

That is obvious to everyone. But not to hand? I will for mum gave him the

benefit of the doubt. It for him to prove to the parties in Northern

Ireland that he can act as previous secretaries of state are both

parties have done, as impartial brokers. If you can do that, then we

will need to address that issue, but at the moment it is for Theresa May

to prove that they are up to that task. All the party said it wanted

to devolution restored. They believe it can be done quickly, but none of

them seem to be prepared and public to talk about the kind of compromise

that would be necessary to achieve that. As anything you can do to

persuade them that optimise is not dirty word? My impression is that

there is a willingness and that is a desire for this deal to work next

week. The circumstances have changed dramatically during the election.

Theresa May needs to cut a deal and the parties in Northern Ireland want

to see their institutions restored. Those two things coming together

hopefully means that as a real confluence of interest, and perhaps

that means that the emperor Didsbury needs to bring back power-sharing.

Owen Smith, the new Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary of state.

The other big issue today, of course, was the attempt

by the Prime Minister to breathe new life into the stalled

Colum Eastwood, Robin Swann and Naomi Long are with me now.

That Theresa May say anything to get you cause for hope today? Intense at

the deal between the Tory party and the DUP she told is that it would be

very transparent and would affect the talks process. I told her it

would take a lot more than that for us to convinced that the DUP deal

won't be wiping the Tory dog, so will have to see what happens. I was

worried that the governments will at some point have to convince, cajole

and pressurise the to make an agreement, and the discovering

unprepared at that point to do that with the DUP, I don't see that much

opportunity for success. Oxley, that won't be the case, but I think a lot

of people will need convincing because the numbers are so tight in

the British Parliament, and I think it is not a good situation for the

peace process typically DUP in such a powerful position. What was your

takeaway? I asked about the transparency to nature there was no

side deals. In the past, and the matter what the other has been an

institutions, there has always been a side deal. We need not just

transparency between the Conservatives and the DUP, but also

the Conservatives and sensing, if there was any side deal to get them

around the party. We have seen the dangers of side parties. When the

eventually come out, it adds an upset society more than the

originally deal benefited. Dirty understand why you raise that issue.

Yes you did. She gave us a guarantee that she will publish the deal

between the Conservative Party and the DUP. Is that enough for you? We

will monitor that. The thing about Northern Ireland politics is that if

there are side deals it is not long before they start to become

transparent. Zara, that -- and I am a that Theresa May reassured you? It

is fine for Hardisty that the Government remains independent, the

reality is that the Government only remains in power for as long as it

DUP will prop them up. When it comes to doing Adil, although the talks,

the Government has no lavage of the DUP or indeed the other parties,

because they have essentially got leveraged over them. I cannot see

how that is helpful to the process, but we are where we are. We want to

be optimistic going into this. It is one thing to get the right and don't

deal, it is one thing to see what is in a paper, but particular with

confidence and supply, whether it is what Bible, the DUP will want to

bring this arrangement for everything they can, and there will

be deals done that an average -- never published, and we will watch

for impartiality. There is backing for a deal between the party and the

DUP, but the he doesn't think it is necessary. It is a slightly odd

position to adopt, people might think will stop do you think it is a

deal that is going to stick? We don't know what the deal looks like.

We want a deal that looks after all of the people of Northern Ireland,

not denial and trust... Arlene Foster says it is a deal that

everyone will benefit from. I would prefer that was no Tory Government,

especially not one propped up by the DUP. From our perspective, we were

here to try and find solution. We offered solutions to have we get

this talks process on target, we note that if veto process and the

Northern Ireland Assembly, we can get a lot of these issues through.

If a go at this the right way, we can resolve issues. We have to,

because we are facing Brexit, at the UK Government, and I don't want to

see those people ruling over as without any MPEG. Can James

Brokenshire be an honest broker? Naomi Long has reservations. The

whole level of the spectrum will have to realise and I think everyone

here does, we have two weeks from today, so to try and entered as an

new chair at this time, I think it is too late. The clock is against

us. James Brokenshire is a option we have at this moment in time. But he

could be the reason why a resolution isn't reach. Every going to start to

look for problems at this late stage. I have had the reservations.

I can see whether coming from, but the solution lies with an hourglass.

You have got to identify the problems define the solutions. The

Government are not bystanders. When it comes to difficult pieces of what

great legacy, there are issues that they need to face up to in terms of

signing up to disagreements. It is not as simple as sitting back and

hoping the party sorted out. They need to step up and measure that.

The second thing is they need to be able to do the deal and negotiate

between the rest of the parties. There is a real challenge if they

are seen to be holding the DUP for every single vote of confidence that

goes through Westminster. Boro are not the DUP will over played out and

and collapse the Government is another matter entirely. I would

hope not. If they are doing this in the national interest, why would

they do that? But this certainly not inconceivable. We gave him a

solution by me met with him in Belfast, and be reasserted that

today. If they want to show that they can be ended ended, then act

independent of the DUP, then there can deal with the issue of the

nations, for example. The DUP will as you nationwide Government. James

Brokenshire can ensure the same level of scrutiny applies to all of

our finances as the rest of the UK. I think it is right that he should

do it and you can do it without the DUP persist because he is impartial.

I have told James Brokenshire months ago that he should do that. You try

to make this as there is something to hide. We stand by the law, we go

by the rules. That is a DUP's possession, of course. The DUP

possession is that it is quite happy to publish at the law changes. That

is our position and we are happy to abide by the lot. I don't know what

Naomi Long are trying to insinuate. She should say it out loud. I'm

guessing there is no point pretending when you want

transparency when you could elaborate today. You are trying to

pretend that some sort of dark money here. The only people with dark

money at the DUP. The reality is that we have to take your word for

it at the moment, just as Arlene Foster had to say I had to take our

word for it. This situation is that neither you Arlene Foster are forced

by the Cardinals to actually make it public. We abide by the rules, we

abide by the law, we do all of that is about board. You can criticise

the DUP then, that is what busy. We don't look for half ?1 million to

put into the Brexit campaign. Completely within the rules. They

used their Northern Ireland rules to subvert it. We don't do that. One of

the first things I doubt this party leader was told James Brokenshire

that he should change that and get on with it. That is our position. We

have said months ago that should have been an independent chair.

Unfortunate, people would not listen. If they hadn't listened to

as months ago... We are where we are. I told everybody who would

listen to me, there are two people involved in this, there are two

Government. The Irish Government to be at the table in a very very

obvious and open way, we need to be called chairing this process.

Without that,... Robin Swann is shaking his head... While you

shaking your head? Northern Ireland operates an earthly output. For the

DUP to overplay their hand at this moment that time. Episodes farther

back. The answer lies within the hands of the five local parties. I

think Naomi Long the 30 year as a coalition of the win. You you folks

are an absolute irrelevance. The deal is going to be done with the

British and Irish governments, and Sinn Fein and the DUP. We saw

exactly what happened when Sinn Fein and the DUP got into Government

together. That is why we are and the mess we're in today. Without an

inclusion, they weren't able to get it over the line. Absolutely, they

can go back and dismiss other parties in the docks and from a

executive, but it did at their own peril. In fairness, we have a

disagreements, we can disagree and a mature way within Government, work

together on issues where we do agree, and another governments at

Aligns ministers were and actually did collapse. We were never be

treated as an adornment. I think everybody wants all of these parties

in the executive. We would go in eggs of that isn't a different type.

We want a Government that will do things. We want to see a programme

for Government that impacts people lies. We are not about to do what

happened the last time Robbie Green acquit Government and Yvonne. It

means we get a Government that last, that is the most important thing. A

quickie yes I know from each of you. There today's meeting held make the

process better? I think it's a start but there is going to be a lot more

needed that the series about getting things up and running and that they

are not going to be held up by the DUP. We got points across to the

Prime Minister. A lot of people have accused Theresa May have not been

involved in this issue, and he has been involved today. I think it is

largely windowdressing. It has been useful to talk to the premise about

the real work starts in Belfast, and that is where it deal will be done.

Thank you. Colum Eastwood, Robin

Swann and Naomi Long. So where are we after another

day of political toing With me now to share her thoughts

is the BBC's Political Editor, Thank you for joining us. Still no

deal between the Tories and the DUP, why not?

There are a few things going on here. First there is the question as

there always is in politics is what else is going on in the world. Late

Monday, Tuesday, the two parties were close to a deal then the awful

situation unfolded at Grenfell Tower and there was a sense amongst my

contacts that it would not have been appropriate to announce a new

Government while that was unfolding. Part of that is logistics. We know

that Arlene Foster will be in Dublin speaking to the tea shock. However

-- speaking to the teacher. There are a couple of other things.

There is a lot of joking and Westminster, the DUP are enjoying

their time in the sun. They have huge influence. They are not to

squander that lightly. There is anxiety about getting it right and

not causing problems for the future. The Treasury has been poring over

the number very closely. The Cabinet Office has been involved in the

talks in a way which they were not in 2010 when the Coalition deal was

done. Paul's two things hassled down the process.

Liz truss had a word with us earlier today in Millbank and we asked was

there a problem, she said you need to address that question to the DUP?

We asked the DUP to join us, not available, did not want to take

part. Are things like Air Passenger Duty and Barnett consequential is

part of the problem? There are lots of things on the

table that the DUP has try to put there, the anxiety of the Treasury

is about the Barnett consequentialist, if they sign the

deal, does that mean that voters in Scotland are going to say we need

extra cash, voters in Wales and the north of England and so on. And

there are a couple of precedents where the Treasury can give extra

cash to some of the devolved administrations, but that hasn't

happened that often, so that is a genuine anxiety. I wonder if that

remark betrays more of what we were talking about earlier, that this has

been gone largely to the DUP wanting to max out this moment. People close

to their side of the talks would say that is not a bit of it, we have

been broadly there for days, but they just want to make sure that

they get it right. But I suspect, who wouldn't, they are seasoned

political bargain is, of course they want to get as much out of it as

they possibly can stop you are convinced that Theresa May needs the

DUP? John Major didn't seem to need them

-- didn't sound convinced, neither did Bob Stewart. Convinced is a

tricky word in politics, especially when things are so fluid and

volatile as they are at the moment. There is a clear signal from Downing

Street, things are so uncertain, remember how much Theresa May's

political authority has been damaged by recent events. She wants to be

able to lock something down, see to Parliament and the country that she

has something approaching a Government that looks as if it could

last for some time. She doesn't want to be in a situation where every

time she is going to put anything to a vote she has to go to the DUP

behind closed doors and say, please support me on this. One thing that

has been relatively unknown in Westminster for the last couple of

years but DUP has been backing the Government, lots of wheeling and

dealing already going on behind closed doors, but a public

affirmation would mean that on a day to day basis she is no longer

hostage to them in the same kind of way. But there are plenty of Tories

who saved the DUP and are going to sink the Tory party, they are never

able to dream of working with Jeremy Corbyn so why not just go it alone?

But they know who Theresa May's authority has been damaged, and my

impression is they want this to happen, otherwise they would not so

publicly pursued a deal in the first place.

Interesting times. Much so. That's it from The View

for this week. Join me for Sunday Politics

at 11.35 here on BBC One.