Browse content similar to 29/06/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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No deal at Stormont today, but Northern Ireland politics did | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
take centre stage at Westminster with that Tory move on abortion. | :00:00. | :00:10. | |
Tonight, what does that piece of high drama say | :00:11. | :00:12. | |
about the stability of the Tory-DUP high wire act in the Commons? | :00:13. | :00:17. | |
And is there any chance, any chance at all, our local | :00:18. | :00:19. | |
politicians can sort out their differences and get | :00:20. | :00:21. | |
Stormont up and running again some time soon? | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
The move by the Government to allow women from Northern Ireland | :00:26. | :00:49. | |
to access abortion for free on the NHS in England | :00:50. | :00:52. | |
is being viewed by some as a fundamental shift and a major | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
concession by the Conservative Government to Labour. | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
In a moment, we'll hear from one Labour MP who | :01:00. | :01:01. | |
And, as another deadline passes at Stormont, the talking continues. | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
But are we really any closer to reaching agreement? | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
We'll hear from the SDLP, the Ulster Unionists and Alliance. | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
Plus - tense negotiations, bargaining and arm twisting. | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
It's not Stormont, but the fifth annual View awards. | :01:18. | :01:25. | |
I think it has to be Arlene Foster. For very bad reasons. It is a | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
gloriously bonkers world. and Newton Emerson in Commentators' | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
Corner. The unexpected political twist has | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
become a regular feature in politics So we shouldn't really have been | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
surprised when the focus on Stormont and its looming talks deadline | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
was knocked sideways by events But could anyone have predicted that | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
Northern Ireland women and their access to free abortions | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
in Britain would be And what are the consequences of | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
that concession from the Government Let's go first to Westminster, | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
and the Labour MP Liz Kendall. Liz Kendall, thank you for joining | :02:05. | :02:14. | |
us. You backed Stella Creasy's | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
amendment, which was the catalyst for the Tory decision | :02:17. | :02:18. | |
to shift its position on making abortions free in England for women | :02:19. | :02:20. | |
from Northern Ireland. I mean, it's an issue MPs from | :02:21. | :02:32. | |
across the political divide have been concerned about for a long | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
while. And I'm very pleased that the Government has decided to accept the | :02:39. | :02:44. | |
amendment and make abortions for women who take that very difficult | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
decision to come to England, you know, available on the same basis as | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
every other woman in the rest of the UK, so it is free at the point of | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
need. I think many women MPs felt very passionately about it. But I | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
also think Stella Creasy did the right thing in working across the | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
political divide to show that there is real cross-party support for | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
that. I think it shows the power of parliament, but also the | :03:12. | :03:13. | |
precariousness of the Conservatives' position at the moment. | :03:14. | :03:15. | |
Did you specifically raise this issue today in the knowledge that it | :03:16. | :03:18. | |
would cause difficulties for the DUP? | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
No, no, it's something that myself and as I say many other Labour MPs | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
have been concerned about and talking about for a long time. | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
Because it is, you know, it's an issue of justice and fairness. It's | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
not about changing the law within Northern Ireland and the fact that | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
that is a devolved responsibility. But it's about saying that women who | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
take that incredibly difficult decision to terminate their | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
pregnancies and to travel that, you know, that they have to have that | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
care on the same basis as other women in all the rest of the UK. But | :03:56. | :04:04. | |
you can understand, can't you, why those who are opposed to abortion | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
are unhappy about this move? They see it as undemocratic, that a | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
decision with wide-ranging implications for Northern Ireland is | :04:15. | :04:17. | |
taken in the way that it was taken at Westminster? This was not a | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
decision about where responsibility for abortion law lives, that remains | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
a devolved issue and a matter for the Northern Ireland Assembly. It is | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
to say that if you are treated by the NHS in England, it should be | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
free at the point of need. And I think that is very important. I know | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
it is a hugely sensitive issue, but I also that women face terrible | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
anxiety about that decision in the first place, terrible stigma, and | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
additional costs. And I think it was right that the Government listened | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
to MPs from all sides of the house to say, whether NHS England pays for | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
that care is a decision for NHS England and for this parliament, and | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
I'm glad that decision was taken. Do you accept that the timing was | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
unfortunate, on the day that the Appeal Court ruled that abortion is | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
a matter for politicians at Stormont. People who don't like | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
abortion and like the fact that it is not readily available in Northern | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
Ireland see this decision as making abortion for Northern Ireland women | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
easier, and that is something obviously they are fundamentally | :05:22. | :05:24. | |
opposed to. I understand the very deeply held beliefs that people have | :05:25. | :05:32. | |
on both sides of this debate. But it is a matter for the NHS in England | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
about how that care is provided and how that is paid for. This vote was | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
not a change for the fact that abortion is a devolved | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
responsibility and the devolved issue. And, you know, it's right | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
that in the Queen's speech backbench MPs can put forward motions, have | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
them debated and voted on and disgust. That is how our democracy | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
and Parliament works. Parliament on the Government made a good decision | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
today. One final question, what's your view of the failure of the | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
Northern Ireland parties to reach agreement by today's 4pm deadline to | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
get Stormont up and running again? Well, I really hope that all sides | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
come together to make sure that Stormont and the assembly are up and | :06:19. | :06:21. | |
running as soon as possible. That's what I think MPs from across the | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
house want, and I hope that happens over the coming days. Because it's | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
so important for the future of people in Northern Ireland, and I'm | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
sure that the people of Northern Ireland want that assembly to be up | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
and running, to take the decisions about issues there, and I give it my | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
full backing and support. Liz Kendall, thank you very much. | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
Well, a senior Conservative MP has told The View that a period | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
of direct rule for Northern Ireland may be inevitable because of | :06:48. | :06:49. | |
Laurence Robertson says a return to devolution is preferable, | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
but handing power back to Westminster might | :06:53. | :06:54. | |
be "the only option" unless a deal is struck here. | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
Our Political Correspondent, Stephen Walker, asked Mr Robertson | :06:59. | :07:00. | |
for his reaction to today's failure to reach a deal in Belfast. | :07:01. | :07:09. | |
Well, it's very disappointing. Whatever the issues that are | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
outstanding, they are best adult with if there is an up and running | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
functioning public assembly -- they are best dealt with. That is where | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
decisions should be taken. It means decisions will have to be taken here | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
at Westminster, aubergine. It's very clear, very unsatisfactory, | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
certainly not what we wanted to see, anyway. Should James Brokenshire I | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
now call an election? I think he is going to wait over the weekend. I | :07:36. | :07:41. | |
think he is giving a statement of the House of Commons on Monday. I | :07:42. | :07:44. | |
don't detect any real desire for another election in Northern | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
Ireland. What's it going to achieve? We have to get to the position where | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
everybody who should nominate does nominate and surely there are | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
important issues about the economy and other things that should be | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
discussed... That is the law of the land on the way that these things | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
work? We need to look at the legislation, because it's not going | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
to take us anywhere. I'm surprised that Sinn Fein had not put forward | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
somebody. Those issues can be discussed, the Irish language, | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
Corporation Tax, health, education, the extra money which is coming to | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
Northern Ireland, surely that is best discussed in the Assembly. I'm | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
disappointed that Sinn Fein haven't gone along with that and agreed the | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
principles of power-sharing, which I thought they had signed signed up | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
to. It means accepting compromises that perhaps you don't want to | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
accept, that is the essence of power-sharing. Do you have a problem | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
with the Irish Language Act? It is certainly not something I lie awake | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
worrying about at night, but it's up to people in Northern Ireland to | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
decide if they want that. But you wouldn't have a problem with it | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
personally? It's not for me to decide, I'm not in the Northern | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
Ireland Assembly. It is for people there to decide what they want. We | :08:57. | :09:05. | |
have to work within the structures which are set out in the Belfast | :09:06. | :09:07. | |
agreement and legislation. If Sinn Fein or anybody else wants to evolve | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
that legislation and look at it again and see if it can be | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
modernised, I would be all for that, actually. We can't keep stumbling | :09:14. | :09:15. | |
from crisis to crisis. At the moment, those are the rule that both | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
sides have to work with. Are we now looking at a prolonged period of | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
direct rule? I sincerely hope not. I was a Shadow Minister when we have | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
the last period of direct rule, and very important issues are decided | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
upstairs in the House of Commons in a committee of 20 MPs. That's no way | :09:31. | :09:40. | |
to run Northern Ireland. So I sincerely hope not. But somebody has | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
to run the province. If that is watching vein of forcing, well, that | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
might be the only option. We'll have to see, but I hope not. Do you think | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
your relationship with the DUP has affected the talks process? I don't | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
think so. I said in the Commons yesterday, this crisis began long | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
before the general election and any deal between the DUP the | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
Conservative Party. If we go back to September 2015 when we have the last | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
crisis, that was way beyond any deal between the Conservative Party and | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
the DUP. No, I don't believe that is the problem. I think it is a problem | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
within Sinn Fein. I don't know what game they are playing but I do know | :10:15. | :10:16. | |
it is a dangerous one. Laurence Robertson talking | :10:17. | :10:18. | |
to Stephen Walker in Westminster. We did ask the DUP and Sinn Fein | :10:19. | :10:20. | |
to join us on tonight's programme, I am, however, joined | :10:21. | :10:23. | |
by Professor Jon Tonge, who's written widely about the DUP, | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
and by the commentator Was a deal ever going to be done | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
by today's deadline? No, and we have witnessed a shambles | :10:30. | :10:39. | |
today. We had a deadline that was never going to be realisable. It | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
completely undermines the credibility of those deadlines. They | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
were trying to rush the fences basically, the British Government, | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
getting the deal done, just as the Assembly was about to break up for | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
the summer. There was no need to press ahead. Far better it would | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
have been to get a proper deal done with an autumn deadline which might | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
have been more realisable. The difficulties are not insurmountable. | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
An Irish Language Act can be produced. You will have probably a | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
separate of the Scots act. Same-sex marriage, that issue to some extent | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
has been taken care of why the snap assembly election because the DUP | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
cannot blog it now. Sinn Fein's assistance that they would not work | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
with Arlene Foster seems to be disappearing from view. Some | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
progress was made. But the deadline, we were told there would be profound | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
and serious implications of the deal was not done today. Well, James | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
Brokenshire I is now allowing the parties to carry on. So what are | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
these profound and serious implications? There are non-. The | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
Secretary of State is coming back tomorrow to continue the talks. That | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
fixed by applying to date was a straw deadline. It never felt like a | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
deadline that was going to do what the are supposed to do, alert the | :11:52. | :11:59. | |
governments to exert pressure on the two parties, Sinn Fein and the DUP, | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
to make the deal. I think that context of the DUP and the | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
Conservative Party working away the last number of weeks to make there | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
own deal has contributed towards this. It feeds into Sinn Fein's | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
suspicions. We have to remember why we are here. We are here because the | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
nationalist community called time on Stormont. That feeds into Sinn | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
Fein's most popular move in the last decade was to pull down by | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
institutions. They have been handsomely rewarded in an electoral | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
sense. Uppermost in their minds at the moment is that they have to get | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
a deal that is transparently clear that it delivers, almost | :12:36. | :12:37. | |
re-establishes an equilibrium between Unionism and nationalism at | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
Stormont. I can't see them styling off on anything until they are | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
confident that will be well received with the Nationalists. If that | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
deadline was nothing more than a bit of political cardiology, where does | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
that leave us? The parties are under no pressure to set down and focus | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
their minds on do a deal, not for Monday, the end of August, not even | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
by Christmas time so no it is quite clear that Secretary of State broke | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
and she is desperate to avoid this legislation... He needs to do | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
something stop low say what the sanction is if the deadline is | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
missed. Everybody knew that the implications meant nothing because | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
there was no statement of intent from the Secretary of State. Next | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
time an autumn deadline that will be followed by sanction. People we | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
believe it next time. Therein lies the problem. At some point, the | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
circus has two end. A deal can be done because of the progress that | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
has been made. There has been progress on some of the issues that | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
have been outlined. You can't blame Sinn Fein for asking for an Irish | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
Language Act. It was there at St Andrews in 2006. They have been | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
waiting 11 years for it. It is not that difficult a gift for the DUP to | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
make. Sinn Fein have had to roll back in trying to decide that Arlene | :13:52. | :13:58. | |
Foster couldn't be First Minister, it was frankly for the birds. There | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
is a prospect of progress. Every survey of public opinion has shown | :14:04. | :14:06. | |
that the public want devolved power-sharing. Direct rule only gets | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
about 15% support Macs in any survey. You've got to get the show | :14:11. | :14:16. | |
one. If there is a deal to be done and we can see the elements that | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
have come together, is there in big dollop of political from us on the | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
part of our all additions not to do the deal yet? That is a part of it. | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
There has to be a period of time whether two parties, probably one | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
private, will work on a choreography to get them over this hurdle. Part | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
of that also that both parties after the last two elections have even | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
further consolidated their strong position is that they were within | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
the respective communities. So they can do a deal. What happened today | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
in the House of Commons is also interesting. That notion that | :14:53. | :14:55. | |
pressure can be exerted within the Conservative Party to force a | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
change, that will be in the minds of the DUP, if they go to direct rule | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
there could be within the Conservative Party moves of equal | :15:04. | :15:06. | |
marriage. The Tories would also be vulnerable because the Irish | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
Language Act is in St Andrews, they might have to legislate that through | :15:11. | :15:11. | |
the Commons as well. Fascinating to see how difficult | :15:12. | :15:21. | |
things will be for the Tories and DUP in the Commons when you have | :15:22. | :15:24. | |
Labour sniping and cutting the Tories off at the knees. It's an | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
inherently unstable arrangement this axis between the DUP and the Tories. | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
It could work for the DUP, it only takes for the Conservatives to lose | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
a few by-elections. The DUP value could increase but there are plenty | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
on the Conservative backbenchers who do not like this axis with the DUP. | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
The onus is on Sinn Fein now to go back into the executive because the | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
Vista is pretty grim otherwise. The DUP - Conservative axis at | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
Westminster? What is in it for Sinn Fein? A deal by Monday? No, this is | :16:01. | :16:08. | |
going to be autumn happy earliest. I cannot see it. There would have to | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
be a significant change because I think Sinn Fein's room for manoeuvre | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
on this is quite limited. There is no chance of a deal on Monday. Stay | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
with us. We will try to come back to you if we can. | :16:24. | :16:26. | |
Well, it's worth remembering in all the discussion | :16:27. | :16:28. | |
about the horse-trading between the DUP and Sinn Fein | :16:29. | :16:30. | |
that there are three other local parties which are, | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
technically, involved in the process too. | :16:34. | :16:34. | |
leader Naomi Long, Claire Hanna, the Alliance Party | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
and the Ulster Unionist Doug Beattie. | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
Do you feel, Naomi Long, that you are innocent bystander at the | :16:43. | :16:49. | |
moment? That would be to demean the influence we have had during this | :16:50. | :16:52. | |
process but we could not argue with any credibility that we are partners | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
in the last few days. Inevitably what was going to happen where Sinn | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
Fein and the DUP would have to focus on the gaps between close those gaps | :17:01. | :17:05. | |
and then whether they could accommodate the other parties, | :17:06. | :17:07. | |
because they because they say they want a fight the executive and that | :17:08. | :17:10. | |
is probably in the best interests of Northern Ireland at this point. They | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
never managed to close the gap between them. As of last night they | :17:15. | :17:17. | |
were still debating whether they would establish the Irish language | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
act. That debate has been going on since January. The idea that this | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
debate can continue and in a few days' time, things were shifted | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
dramatically, it is not the case. I cannot see any prospect of the DUP | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
on the side of the 12th of July conceding an Irish language act and | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
I'm going to the parade on the trot and being berated on the platforms | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
for having conceded that, so that is off the table at this point. You and | :17:43. | :17:50. | |
the SDLP go back, the Secretary of State is coming back but everyone is | :17:51. | :17:53. | |
saying it is a waste of time because there was no chance of a deal being | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
done. What is happening? You've expressed frustration people feel, | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
and yet another deadline rushing over our heads will just increase | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
public cynicism and lack of belief that politics is the way that we | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
can... Is there any point in turning up tomorrow? We will always turn up. | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
But we feel like we have been at parallel process, parallel | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
universe... Parallel pantomime? We will keep trying to discuss and keep | :18:22. | :18:27. | |
forward ideas like a petition of concern that could unlock progress | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
on these issues and also things like child city deals, but as Naomi said, | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
we are apparently stuck on the issue of an Irish language act. I would | :18:38. | :18:44. | |
not start here with that, I would, as John said, the ambiguity around | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
it at St Andrews, it has to be remembered that last May we try to | :18:49. | :18:51. | |
negotiate a programme for government and we were rebuffed. I say this as | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
someone who speaks Irish. Is it more important than government? Know. But | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
it has become an issue by the DUP's owner and the parity of esteem. They | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
have made it totemic and they have two be prepared to share but whether | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
it is the Irish language or the military covenant, if parties are | :19:13. | :19:14. | |
saying that you can or cannot have government based on this one issue | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
they are lying all the common votes to four by the wayside. Would you | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
turn up on stage tomorrow and play your part in supporting cast? We all | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
have to turn up, we all have passed the play, we all have ideas that we | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
could give. But you are a bit part players and the principles don't | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
seem to want to get on with the performers. I think that know put it | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
quite well, the third part of the process is closing the gap between | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
the DUP and Sinn Fein. And the second is making sure that can get | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
an executive together that all five parties can buy into. As the Ulster | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
Unionist Party weeping ideals do that, solutions to problems try to | :19:55. | :20:04. | |
gaps. -- we bring ideas. In some cases, and I will give you a simple | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
example around the Irish line was, I have the utmost respect for the | :20:10. | :20:11. | |
Irish language and its community but we cannot do it as a single issue, | :20:12. | :20:18. | |
it is part of identity and culture. We have suggested that the flags, | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
identity, culture and traditions commission could be a vehicle for | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
closing that gap and that seemed to have been ignored. It is laudable to | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
use that to try to close the gap and save face for some of the people. | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
Naomi, you said enthusiastically that there are contributions from | :20:37. | :20:38. | |
the smaller parties that are making a difference, but not to the several | :20:39. | :20:45. | |
narrative of the peace. Remember that we have narrowed it down to the | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
Irish language act and some other issues, but when they started it | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
included Brexit and many other issues which have been dealt with on | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
a five party bases, where we have had real influence and we continue. | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
On things like equal marriage and the Irish language act, to try to be | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
focus minds on the fact that the petition of needs to be looked at if | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
we are to unlock serious, progressive legislation that in the | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
assembly. We have to remind the two main parties of that because the | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
tendency has been to Australia's issues around the table between | :21:20. | :21:21. | |
themselves but not do the structural work that needs done to make sure | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
that we restore the assembly in a proper restoration that will work. | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
We have done the groundwork. Rather than sit back and said that they are | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
talking, we'll put our feet up, we have, in apparel process, made clear | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
what our terms and conditions are they want us in the executive, we | :21:41. | :21:43. | |
work with them to make sure that those issues are addressed. We | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
continue to try to ease the way. The reality is this is about political | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
will to do the deal or not. And I don't believe that their heart is in | :21:55. | :21:57. | |
it and that became absolutely clear last night when people upped sticks | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
and went home at one o'clock in the morning. If this was a serious | :22:03. | :22:09. | |
deadline day would still be there. You can make the contributions you | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
want to make and talk about progress, but if Sinn Fein and the | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
DUP don't want to sit down in a room and hammer out a deal, there is | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
little that anyone else can do about that. In society and in politics we | :22:21. | :22:27. | |
believe in pluralism and getting as many voices and accepting that be | :22:28. | :22:29. | |
will make those choices and that is what people have voted for. But, you | :22:30. | :22:37. | |
know, there is a deliberate attempt in some respects to distract from | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
some of the bigger issues that people are wondering about, not | :22:43. | :22:45. | |
least Brexit, and boil it down to this. It can push people into | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
corners. As Naomi and David have said we did get some progress in | :22:52. | :22:55. | |
these issues and it may be appropriate to publish and put some | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
of that out there. It has to be said that the two parties with the big | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
mandates have not shown up to talk about what is in confession and wrap | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
proxies in the media and deflection and buzzwords, and people should be | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
asked to play out exactly what the are. What do you think happens when | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
the talks reconvene tomorrow at Stormont? We carry on with the | :23:18. | :23:25. | |
momentum we've got. We don't know is that what is going on inside there, | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
to be honest. Nobody really does. We don't know how close these people | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
are getting. They might be getting close. There were three strands we | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
were talking about the legacy, the Irish language and governance. | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
Governance is important to us, but we're close the gap on legacy, for | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
example. And we could well close the gap quite quickly on the Irish | :23:49. | :23:54. | |
language. The governors issued good open this up, we could put it to the | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
floor and work out the details. But the talks are really getting into | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
the nitty-gritty of what an act should do, shouldn't do, how much it | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
should cost, but it is really about how and whether it should exist. It | :24:08. | :24:11. | |
is not just about what to do tomorrow in terms of the gaps. Every | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
day that goes by, another day of paperwork building up on the | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
Minister's desk when there is no minister to take decisions, give | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
direction, allocate funds and budgets and we end up at the Civil | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
Service working on a very narrow remit. That Gemili continue until | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
mid-July before there was no choice but to have direct rule of some | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
kind. That is not good for Northern Ireland, not bid for the process, | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
and that is going to up and some of the relationships that have been | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
built. So this deadline being missed has consequences. People may not | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
believe that but those losing their jobs because decisions are not being | :24:49. | :24:52. | |
made about community involvement, because there are cars on public | :24:53. | :25:00. | |
services, they think it is bad. Is this bad politics? The parties | :25:01. | :25:03. | |
involved don't seem to be able to reach agreement. Some people say | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
that it brings politics into disrepute when politicians are not | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
doing their job that they are elected and paid to do, but also | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
that doesn't seem to be anybody in charge at the moment. These other | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
parties that the electorate has voted for, so we have to be careful | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
about analysis. The political will clearly was not there this time and | :25:25. | :25:28. | |
you have a suspicion that the DUP were gung ho about nominating the | :25:29. | :25:36. | |
First Minister. Direct rule would not disadvantage the DUP but it | :25:37. | :25:45. | |
would disadvantage Sinn Fein. If they are prepared to wait, it is not | :25:46. | :25:52. | |
going to report until November, December. Does this bring politics | :25:53. | :25:59. | |
into disrepute? These parties have received an overwhelming mandate. | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
This is ours as a society trying to find a way to coexist, thrashing | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
around in the post-Good Friday agreement if, and how we do so as | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
equal partners. Every so often we will come up against these hurdles. | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
If we could just widen it we talk about the context of what is | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
happening in Westminster. We have heard from Liz Kendall, the case for | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
the change to abortion law across the water which will allow a woman | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
from ear to travel and get free abortions on the NHS in England. | :26:29. | :26:34. | |
Your party is a pro-life party. Have you got perlite -- have you got | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
reservations about that? It is a democratic void that we don't have a | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
government and whatever your views, and I don't support the 1967 act | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
which is essentially what this is, I am an admirer of stellar QC has done | :26:50. | :26:55. | |
good work on the Living Wage and payday loans but a North London MP | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
has more power. The assembly asked for report from a working group to | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
see and how abortion law should be reformed and instead after 15 months | :27:05. | :27:09. | |
we don't know why they sat another port for 15 months even before the | :27:10. | :27:12. | |
collapse. These are decisions for Northern Ireland. Time for a | :27:13. | :27:20. | |
sentence each, are you pleased about what happened today? I'm pleased | :27:21. | :27:22. | |
that it will ease the financial pressure on women who do travel to | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
have a termination of pregnancy. But it is not a solution to Northern | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
Ireland's problem zero I believe that the report was necessary, the | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
Department of had done at study on this, there was a report because | :27:37. | :27:38. | |
people were ducking the hard decisions, as always. We need | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
abortion reform. We have been exporting abortion to England, | :27:45. | :27:47. | |
Scotland and Wales so I welcome this developing. -- development. Thank | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
you for joining us. Let's hear what tonight's | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
commentators make of Deirdre Heenan and Newton | :27:56. | :27:57. | |
Emerson are with me. We have a lot to get through. We | :27:58. | :28:10. | |
will come onto the View Awards in just a moment. | :28:11. | :28:12. | |
The Stormont situation - no agreement, but the process limps on. | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
Is the glass half empty? Most people expected that, and that the deadly | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
mid-pass, as it has. The interesting point of discussion is, people want | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
to know the implications of not reaching agreement. As Secretary of | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
State going to say, what will happen? Will funds be cut? The | :28:33. | :28:38. | |
public are running out of patience. It might not be bad for politics and | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
ponder commentators and one says but with people at home worrying about | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
their jobs, the dizzying this week by the Department of Health to take | :28:47. | :28:52. | |
money out of district nursing completely flies in the face of a | :28:53. | :28:56. | |
report and that is asking questions about who is in charge, and how can | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
you have strategic direction when we don't have ministers? So has it all | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
disappeared? But we're wondering about who makes the strategic | :29:07. | :29:14. | |
decisions. Over the summer this committee of the Tories and the DUP | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
might meet, at the moment it is just meeting about that ?1 billion | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
package but it is going to decide on a new executive that Sinn Fein is | :29:23. | :29:26. | |
locked out of and that is very destabilising. Our view in agreement | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
with my other commentators who said that there was a plea cannot be any | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
deal by Monday? They will be talking over the summer -- the summer. It is | :29:35. | :29:42. | |
unlikely that there will be a deal. All parties, whilst they are doing | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
their best, they are peeping in at the margins at the larger parties. | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
The earliest I could see it happening is the end of September. | :29:52. | :29:54. | |
Let's pause there for a moment, and since it's our final | :29:55. | :29:57. | |
programme of the series, that means it's time for The View's | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
Four of our regular team of commentators joined me | :30:01. | :30:03. | |
in the No Alibis bookshop to pore over the events of the past | :30:04. | :30:06. | |
12 months, and come up with worthy winners in our | :30:07. | :30:08. | |
We have Patrick Adiba Rees, we are going to talk about Best Newcomer, | :30:09. | :30:22. | |
first of all. One is Doug Beattie. Is he really a new,? May 2016, | :30:23. | :30:29. | |
that's new in terms of how things have developed over the past 12 | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
months. The other one is Kelley Armstrong from the Alliance party. | :30:34. | :30:42. | |
For me, it was Doug Beattie. He has come into the public domain | :30:43. | :30:46. | |
relatively recently, he has been unimpressive, impressive on social | :30:47. | :30:49. | |
media and the way he is willing to tackle difficult subject and also | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
people within his own constituency -- he has been impressive. Sinead | :30:54. | :31:05. | |
Bradley is symbolic of the new Cowdray of people who are very | :31:06. | :31:10. | |
capable. Jeremy Corbyn, one month ago, almost one months ago, was a | :31:11. | :31:13. | |
laughing stock. It was brought home to me by watching bits of | :31:14. | :31:20. | |
Glastonbury, which I watched to hear the chance, oh, Jeremy Corbyn. In | :31:21. | :31:24. | |
terms of the House of Commons when he went back there, he's still like | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
a wet dish of! You're leaving out the people who came out to campaign | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
and vote for him. I think it was the hatred of Theresa May. I think you | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
are wrong. Best use of social media... None of our politicians use | :31:40. | :31:42. | |
it effectively, in my opinion. I have to vote for talks on. He throws | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
up things to his supporters, challenges to his opponents. -- I | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
have to vote for bold Trump. I think Naomi Long is the person who is | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
still the best person in the Assembly and using social media. | :31:57. | :32:00. | |
There is an argument that she uses it too much, never off it. Sometimes | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
goes a bit too fast a purely due have to know at what point to stop, | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
to walk away, to say, I'm just going to leave at the. The general use of | :32:12. | :32:17. | |
social media on the DUP going to London and making their deal with | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
the Tories was a stunning use of social media. And one which | :32:21. | :32:27. | |
reflected an awful lot of misunderstanding, shallow | :32:28. | :32:30. | |
understanding, skewed understanding. And absolute accurate understanding | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
in Britain of politics here. It is a gloriously bonkers world. All of | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
social media is that. I think the one person who has used it in its | :32:40. | :32:45. | |
most true way is Donald Trump. Let's move on to political moment of the | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
year. Deirdre? Martin McGuinness's resignation. The optics of it, the | :32:52. | :32:58. | |
imagery. He looked so frail, she was visibly and audibly unwell. It was a | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
clear effort for him. It was a complete shift of Sinn Fein's entire | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
strategy for the last 15 years in terms of walking away from Stormont, | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
something that for him had been sacrosanct. There was a BBC | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
spotlight programme on the RHI, two weeks before that we have the first | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
joint letter, the first joint peace from beginners and Ireland, we | :33:20. | :33:24. | |
worked wonderfully well, the -- from Martin McGuinness and Arlene Foster. | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
Then the whole thing came toppling down. It was the exit poll, for me. | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
Sitting there on the election programme just before we went on | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
air, Mark Carruthers said, I know what the exit poll has said, she | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
whispered. I said, tell us, give us a clue. And he said, no, he was | :33:41. | :33:47. | |
glossing with secrecy. I said, wiggle your eyebrows at! He didn't | :33:48. | :33:53. | |
even woggle an eyebrow. Final category... Drum world... Politician | :33:54. | :33:57. | |
of the year. I think it has to be Arlene Foster. For very bad reasons. | :33:58. | :34:03. | |
And also for the inescapable reason that this is a woman whose career | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
went to heaven and hell over one year, and now back to heaven again. | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
Arlene Foster is propping up the government, and I think that is | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
terrifying in one sense, actually, it terrifying in every sense, you're | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
right. She will be the subject of Ph.D. Is for the next few decades. | :34:21. | :34:28. | |
She has apologised for the crocodile incident, a calamitous choice of | :34:29. | :34:31. | |
words. If you look at how she has handled this with Downing Street, | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
she hasn't antagonised nationalism by lots of things. It is | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
overwhelmingly... I think she did that. She was kept off the stage, | :34:40. | :34:45. | |
she had a low profile. She could have insisted on doing it but she | :34:46. | :34:48. | |
didn't do it, that is quite a strength. | :34:49. | :35:00. | |
Thanks to Sam McBride, Fionnuala O'Connor and Alex Kane, | :35:01. | :35:02. | |
and to the good people of No Alibis bookstore in Belfast | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
Let's get to the business end of things, and the results. | :35:06. | :35:08. | |
Deirdre, you were the fourth member of the panel, so, start us off - | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
I will give you the envelope and you can do the honours for us. | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
Congratulations to Doug Beattie, he just happens to be in the room. He | :35:17. | :35:29. | |
looks pleased! Newton, you fed into the conversation although you were | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
not able to be there. He only came into the assembly just over one year | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
ago. Only a few months ago he was named as an obvious choice for | :35:40. | :35:43. | |
replacement leader of the UUP. Was it unanimous, almost unanimous? From | :35:44. | :35:50. | |
tonight's conversation when he says things like I have the utmost | :35:51. | :35:53. | |
respect for the Irish language, he shows he can be pragmatic and think | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
of a compromise, that's what we need in politics. Good, but no big heads, | :35:59. | :36:03. | |
we won't stand for that! Well done, Doug. Best use of social media. We | :36:04. | :36:10. | |
haven't had one for the last six months, a logical bit of pairing to | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
do with our categories. Anyway, best use of social media? And the winner | :36:16. | :36:22. | |
is... Highly controversial, Donald Trump! The first challenge we have | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
is, how do we get the award to him?! Oh, well, if you're asking! He took | :36:28. | :36:32. | |
a shine to Katrina Perry the other night! There was the woggle of an | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
eyebrow whenever you heard this decision. I'm not impressed with | :36:38. | :36:41. | |
this word in general. I think it is most interesting in social media in | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
Northern Ireland recently with Sinn Fein's decision during the general | :36:46. | :36:48. | |
election to move all of its campaign especially in north Belfast away | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
from mainstream media towards social media, that's an interesting | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
development. He has 32 million followers, he drives the news agenda | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
and he uses it to his benefit. Or miss uses it to his benefit, we had | :37:01. | :37:05. | |
that conversation as well. He is him, he is authentic, he is sending | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
out those tweets and his advisers are going mad in the background, but | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
that is him and that is the nature of the unpredictable president. And | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
an honourable mention to the Alliance party leader at Naomi Long, | :37:19. | :37:22. | |
who spends long nights stuck to her Taufa'ao! The -- to her telephone. | :37:23. | :37:32. | |
Political moment of the year was hotly contested. Martin McGuinness's | :37:33. | :37:35. | |
resignation, white and we plumped for that? Well, I think there was, | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
in the end agreement that that was the memorable political moment of | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
the year because of how he looks. He was so frail and clearly one. -- | :37:45. | :37:51. | |
clearly unwell. There was visible shock at how frail he was and what a | :37:52. | :37:56. | |
strange it was for him to do this. Also the implications of bringing | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
down the Government and what that actually meant. It left his | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
opponents navel-gazing. They didn't expect it, it was a shock for many | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
people. Law that was the pivotal moment in our politics of the year. | :38:07. | :38:12. | |
The decision to bring down the assembly, the extraordinary assembly | :38:13. | :38:15. | |
meeting at the end of December when Arlene Foster try to make the RHI | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
statement on all of her authority on the speaker on the assembly just | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
drained away. It was a hotly contested category, there were lots | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
of outstanding political moments. Politician of the year, Newton? The | :38:28. | :38:35. | |
winner is... Arlene Foster. And the point was made, it was politician of | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
the dear, Finola O'Connor was at pains to point out, not necessarily | :38:42. | :38:44. | |
best politician, a different things or politician of the year. Political | :38:45. | :38:50. | |
personality of the year, if that's the right terminology. A year ago we | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
were thinking about the award and talking about how quick-witted she | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
was. She was able to link with the people, and yet in a year she was | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
completely on the ropes. And at this point she appears to be a Phoenix | :39:03. | :39:06. | |
rising from the ashes. She has bounced back. It was interesting | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
Peter Robinson was back in the news this week. There was a redemption | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
story, you learn from 2010. I hope that Arlene Foster will as well. | :39:16. | :39:17. | |
There good to have you both on the programme, thank you very much for | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
being with us over the past few weeks. | :39:22. | :39:23. | |
That's it from The View for this week, and indeed for this series. | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
But in the meantime, Sunday Politics continues | :39:27. | :39:29. | |
until mid-July at the usual time of 11:35 here on BBC1. | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
For now, though, from everyone in the team - goodbye. | :39:33. | :39:56. | |
The Irish Open is coming back to the north coast. | :39:57. | :40:01. |