Browse content similar to 02/11/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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They've had time and space to reach
a deal - and failed. | 0:00:05 | 0:00:09 | |
As the Secretary of State confirms
the Stormont budget will be brought | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
forward at Westminster,
we ask can anything be | 0:00:12 | 0:00:14 | |
done to revive a talks
process on life support? | 0:00:14 | 0:00:16 | |
Welcome to The View. | 0:00:16 | 0:00:18 | |
With James Brokenshire adamant we're
not looking at direct rule just yet, | 0:00:39 | 0:00:42 | |
where does that leave the talks
process and the prospect | 0:00:42 | 0:00:45 | |
of restoring devolution? | 0:00:45 | 0:00:46 | |
We'll hear from the DUP's
Gregory Campbell in Foyle, | 0:00:46 | 0:00:51 | |
Sinn Fein's John O'Dowd
and the Alliance Party | 0:00:51 | 0:00:53 | |
leader, Naomi Long. | 0:00:53 | 0:00:59 | |
They are with me in the studio. | 0:00:59 | 0:01:01 | |
Plus, after Peadar Heffron's
powerful interview, we're asking, | 0:01:01 | 0:01:03 | |
nearly 20 years after Patten's
new beginning for policing, | 0:01:03 | 0:01:05 | |
are there elements in nationalism
which will never fully | 0:01:05 | 0:01:07 | |
embrace the PSNI? | 0:01:07 | 0:01:08 | |
And back in Commentators'
Corner, it's Fionnuala | 0:01:08 | 0:01:10 | |
O Connor and Alex Kane. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:15 | |
Hello. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
On Monday night it looked
like that elusive deal might | 0:01:18 | 0:01:20 | |
finally be within reach. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:21 | |
What a difference
four days can make. | 0:01:21 | 0:01:25 | |
As of now, the talking has ground
to halt and a budget looks set | 0:01:25 | 0:01:28 | |
to go through Westminster
the week after next. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:31 | |
So where did it all go wrong,
and is there any hope of getting it | 0:01:31 | 0:01:35 | |
right before big financial decisions
are taken out of local hands? | 0:01:35 | 0:01:40 | |
Gregory Campbell in Derry, is that
it, or is this talks process still | 0:01:40 | 0:01:44 | |
going on? It needs to go on, and we
need to reach a satisfactory | 0:01:44 | 0:01:53 | |
conclusion. A satisfactory
conclusion is one where people | 0:01:53 | 0:01:56 | |
across the community are content and
satisfied that it is a win-win, that | 0:01:56 | 0:02:01 | |
we all move forward, that health,
education, all the other issues get | 0:02:01 | 0:02:06 | |
the much-needed resources that they
require and that we start delivering | 0:02:06 | 0:02:09 | |
for the people of Northern Ireland.
That needs to be the outcome. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:13 | |
Sources suggested things were going
pretty well on Monday, there was a | 0:02:13 | 0:02:16 | |
spirit of optimism and something
happened on Monday night and into | 0:02:16 | 0:02:20 | |
Tuesday morning. What was that? Did
the DUP get cold feet over the Irish | 0:02:20 | 0:02:24 | |
language act? No, we have heard
these sources being quoted over | 0:02:24 | 0:02:31 | |
ministers and others in Dublin,
people in London, all sorts of | 0:02:31 | 0:02:34 | |
people talking up the prospects, and
then others dampening down | 0:02:34 | 0:02:39 | |
prospects. You get this speculation.
The gap has narrowed over the course | 0:02:39 | 0:02:46 | |
of the last few weeks, but we are
not at a point where we can conclude | 0:02:46 | 0:02:51 | |
the deal, because we are not there
where everybody feels that this is | 0:02:51 | 0:02:56 | |
going to be a win-win position. At
the moment, there are still gaps and | 0:02:56 | 0:03:01 | |
we need to close those gaps and get
the deal over the line. John | 0:03:01 | 0:03:05 | |
O'Dowda, the gap has narrowed. Is
that how you see it? There has been | 0:03:05 | 0:03:11 | |
progress, but insufficient progress,
because if there was enough | 0:03:11 | 0:03:14 | |
progress, we would now be sitting in
an executive assembly. We would be | 0:03:14 | 0:03:20 | |
ensuring that the rights of all our
citizens are protected, and that is | 0:03:20 | 0:03:23 | |
a win-win situation favourably,
because the protection of people's | 0:03:23 | 0:03:27 | |
rights does not alienate or threaten
anyone, and it is not a loss for | 0:03:27 | 0:03:31 | |
someone, it is a win for everyone.
So when Sinn Fein have been in these | 0:03:31 | 0:03:35 | |
talks, we have been in gauged on the
basis of working for the rights of | 0:03:35 | 0:03:39 | |
all citizens. The people we are
speaking about half are not all | 0:03:39 | 0:03:43 | |
voters for Sinn Fein, and some of
them may never vote for Sinn Fein, | 0:03:43 | 0:03:47 | |
but it is with rights and
entitlements for everyone. We know | 0:03:47 | 0:03:51 | |
that, with the greatest respect I
think we have heard that articulated | 0:03:51 | 0:03:54 | |
many times over the past eight
months or thereabouts. But it hasn't | 0:03:54 | 0:03:57 | |
changed. But it is interesting the
Gregory Campbell says that the gap | 0:03:57 | 0:04:03 | |
has narrowed, the British and Irish
Lions ons have suggested the gap is | 0:04:03 | 0:04:07 | |
particularly narrow at this stage,
progress has been made, and do you | 0:04:07 | 0:04:12 | |
accept that the gap is not now what
it was a few months ago. We can all | 0:04:12 | 0:04:18 | |
get around a table and argue whether
the gap has narrowed or not, but | 0:04:18 | 0:04:21 | |
that is a waste of time. Has
progress being made or not? It is | 0:04:21 | 0:04:26 | |
speculation. Do you tell me, do you
think the gap has narrowed, yes or | 0:04:26 | 0:04:33 | |
no? That speculation is an helpful
to the process because we need to | 0:04:33 | 0:04:38 | |
have a meaningful talks process
around the table and bring it to a | 0:04:38 | 0:04:41 | |
conclusion. We can speculate in
studios for the next period of time | 0:04:41 | 0:04:44 | |
over the size of the gap, but let's
get into meaningful talks and | 0:04:44 | 0:04:47 | |
resolve the issue. Can you point to
anything that is less of an issue | 0:04:47 | 0:04:54 | |
now than it was weeks or months ago?
Because that is what Gregory | 0:04:54 | 0:04:57 | |
Campbell seems to be suggesting is
the case. I'm not going to negotiate | 0:04:57 | 0:05:03 | |
on here, that isn't helpful to
anyone. I'm just asking for some | 0:05:03 | 0:05:06 | |
sense of whether or not there is any
progress. The fact that we are | 0:05:06 | 0:05:11 | |
sitting here without an executive
and without an assembly tells me | 0:05:11 | 0:05:15 | |
that has been insufficient progress
across a wide range of interests. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:20 | |
But has the bin a narrowing of the
gap? Wires that are difficult | 0:05:20 | 0:05:28 | |
question. It isn't a difficult
question, it is a pointless | 0:05:28 | 0:05:32 | |
question. Naomi Long, I haven't got
anywhere with John O'Dowda. Do you | 0:05:32 | 0:05:40 | |
think the gap has narrowed? Is that
a meaningless question to ask? We | 0:05:40 | 0:05:44 | |
are not in a position to judge,
because the two parties have | 0:05:44 | 0:05:49 | |
essentially lock themselves away in
a room together to have these | 0:05:49 | 0:05:52 | |
discussions, and the rest of us are
essentially now just feeding into | 0:05:52 | 0:05:55 | |
that process as we meet the parties
individually, but we are not in a | 0:05:55 | 0:05:59 | |
position to judge whether the gap is
wider or narrower than it was. But | 0:05:59 | 0:06:05 | |
the gap was never that wide to begin
with. There is this huge gulf that | 0:06:05 | 0:06:11 | |
needs to be crossed, we are not in a
situation like in 1998 where we were | 0:06:11 | 0:06:17 | |
talking about people making massive
changes to their political stance. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:21 | |
These are relatively small issues
that could be resolved if the wheel | 0:06:21 | 0:06:24 | |
is there. What I don't detect from
outside the room and what the public | 0:06:24 | 0:06:28 | |
don't detect from outside the room
is that there is any attempt being | 0:06:28 | 0:06:32 | |
made by either party to prepare
their constituencies for a deal. In | 0:06:32 | 0:06:36 | |
that context, the only conclusion we
can reach is that a deal is not | 0:06:36 | 0:06:39 | |
imminent. While I -- where I agree
with both Gregory and John is that | 0:06:39 | 0:06:47 | |
we don't need to look at what
percentage of the gap is closed, we | 0:06:47 | 0:06:50 | |
need to see the gap completely
closed because what people want is | 0:06:50 | 0:06:54 | |
the restoration of the institutions,
they want it to be more stable than | 0:06:54 | 0:06:58 | |
it has been in the past and more
reliably able to deal with the | 0:06:58 | 0:07:01 | |
challenges that Northern Ireland
faces, and nothing we have heard | 0:07:01 | 0:07:04 | |
this evening suggest that we are
about to enter into that kind of an | 0:07:04 | 0:07:07 | |
executive. Have you been hearing, as
we have, that it still comes down to | 0:07:07 | 0:07:13 | |
the thorny issue of a stand-alone
Irish language act? Sinn Fein wants | 0:07:13 | 0:07:16 | |
it, the DUP doesn't? It is certainly
one of the issues, but it isn't the | 0:07:16 | 0:07:23 | |
only one... But is it the key issue?
For us it isn't, but obviously it is | 0:07:23 | 0:07:29 | |
one of the issues that has caused
this stand-off, and it is for that | 0:07:29 | 0:07:33 | |
reason that we have put forward
solutions to try to ensure that we | 0:07:33 | 0:07:36 | |
do have the protections that are
required for the Irish language, | 0:07:36 | 0:07:39 | |
that we do that in a way that is
proportionate and deals with | 0:07:39 | 0:07:44 | |
concerns others might have over what
those concerns would look like. We | 0:07:44 | 0:07:47 | |
have been proactive in putting
forward solutions I think the public | 0:07:47 | 0:07:51 | |
of recriminations and arguments.
What they want to hear our | 0:07:51 | 0:07:55 | |
solutions, and that is what we are
trying to focus on, but it is | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
difficult for us to play a
constructive role when we can't be | 0:07:58 | 0:08:01 | |
in the room looking into the whites
of other people's rise to know | 0:08:01 | 0:08:04 | |
whether they are serious about
getting this over the line or | 0:08:04 | 0:08:08 | |
whether this is simply about
allowing the drift to continue until | 0:08:08 | 0:08:19 | |
the first person blinks and walks
away, because nobody wants to be to | 0:08:19 | 0:08:21 | |
blame for the collapse of these
institutions, and so we need to know | 0:08:21 | 0:08:24 | |
whether people are serious or not
about getting a solution, because it | 0:08:24 | 0:08:26 | |
is only one we know that they are
serious that we can start to get | 0:08:26 | 0:08:29 | |
progress. Gregory Campbell, are the
DUP serious about negotiating to get | 0:08:29 | 0:08:33 | |
a resolution to the outstanding
issues? We have been serious about | 0:08:33 | 0:08:36 | |
it for months. It is a process, and
not of a body things all of the | 0:08:36 | 0:08:42 | |
parties have been serious about that
process. That maybe, but our view | 0:08:42 | 0:08:46 | |
was at the start and remains now
that with no red lines and no | 0:08:46 | 0:08:50 | |
preconditions, we will set up
government tomorrow. So the | 0:08:50 | 0:08:55 | |
stand-alone Irish language act isn't
a precondition for the DUP? I don't | 0:08:55 | 0:08:59 | |
know why people keep confusing the
issue of preconditions. An Irish | 0:08:59 | 0:09:04 | |
language act or no Irish language
act doesn't prevent for us a | 0:09:04 | 0:09:08 | |
government being established. We
will establish it tomorrow. There | 0:09:08 | 0:09:12 | |
isn't anything that we require to be
done before we will go into | 0:09:12 | 0:09:15 | |
government. If everyone else could
say that, we would have a government | 0:09:15 | 0:09:19 | |
tomorrow morning at 10:30am in
Stormont. I think Sinn Fein's | 0:09:19 | 0:09:23 | |
position is that they would have a
government tomorrow if there was a | 0:09:23 | 0:09:32 | |
allowance for a stand-alone Irish
language act. I couldn't tempt John | 0:09:32 | 0:09:43 | |
O'Dowda to talk about whether the
gap had narrowed or not. Can you | 0:09:43 | 0:09:48 | |
tell me what progress actually has
been made. What would you point to | 0:09:48 | 0:09:52 | |
as evidence for people watching this
programme to help them understand | 0:09:52 | 0:09:55 | |
where the progress has happened in
your view? I can understand the | 0:09:55 | 0:10:01 | |
desire of people to know exactly
what it is is going wrong, what it | 0:10:01 | 0:10:05 | |
is is the stumbling block or
stumbling blocks, and they do want | 0:10:05 | 0:10:11 | |
information and transparency. I
don't think it would be helpful if | 0:10:11 | 0:10:14 | |
we were to itemise now what each of
the issues are that remain to be | 0:10:14 | 0:10:20 | |
concluded. I don't think that would
be helpful. I think what would be | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
more helpful is if we keep going at
this process until we get it over | 0:10:23 | 0:10:29 | |
the line. If that means people then
need to go away and concentrate and | 0:10:29 | 0:10:33 | |
to review their position, and to
talk to people, then let them do | 0:10:33 | 0:10:38 | |
that, and if that requires a few
days or the weekend, let them do | 0:10:38 | 0:10:42 | |
that, and then we come back, and if
talks can't start again tomorrow, we | 0:10:42 | 0:10:46 | |
understand they should have taken
place today, but hopefully they can | 0:10:46 | 0:10:50 | |
start on Monday, and we can still
get it over the line. But just to be | 0:10:50 | 0:10:56 | |
clear, I'm assuming that neither
Sinn Fein nor the DUP expect to get | 0:10:56 | 0:10:59 | |
everything on their wish list and
expect the other side to concede | 0:10:59 | 0:11:03 | |
everything that they don't want to
concede. Are you up a compromise? | 0:11:03 | 0:11:07 | |
That's why we didn't make any
preconditions, for precisely that | 0:11:07 | 0:11:10 | |
reason. So you are prepared to
compromise on some of these dearly | 0:11:10 | 0:11:15 | |
held issues as far as the DUP are
concerned? Just to be clear about | 0:11:15 | 0:11:18 | |
that? When you say we are prepared
to compromise, we want to have a | 0:11:18 | 0:11:23 | |
position where it is not a winner
takes all. It isn't a winner takes | 0:11:23 | 0:11:28 | |
all, you can't go to the table and
say, here is a list of our demands, | 0:11:28 | 0:11:32 | |
when we get them we will do a deal.
That is not the way you do | 0:11:32 | 0:11:35 | |
negotiations. You have got to try
and say, this is a give and take | 0:11:35 | 0:11:39 | |
process, we will get all that we
want, some of what we want, and we | 0:11:39 | 0:11:43 | |
will have to give something else.
But you cannot do that if those with | 0:11:43 | 0:11:48 | |
whom you are negotiating say, here
is a list of demands, when they are | 0:11:48 | 0:11:51 | |
met we will move, but not until. But
they take from that that you are | 0:11:51 | 0:11:55 | |
prepared to make concessions if a
dealer to be reached, you understand | 0:11:55 | 0:11:58 | |
that has to be part of the process?
That was our position at the start | 0:11:58 | 0:12:06 | |
and remains our position. And that
presumably is Sinn Fein's position | 0:12:06 | 0:12:08 | |
as well? You will have to make
concessions to the DUP to reach a | 0:12:08 | 0:12:11 | |
deal? | 0:12:11 | 0:12:15 | |
We didn't have a list of demands.
Gregory talks about setting up the | 0:12:15 | 0:12:21 | |
executive and he talks about that at
1030 a.m. There will be in | 0:12:21 | 0:12:26 | |
executive. Bit is on the basis of
the Good Friday Agreement. That | 0:12:26 | 0:12:33 | |
position is very well-known. The
point is this, Gregory Campbell | 0:12:33 | 0:12:37 | |
doesn't see it the way you see it.
And that is where you have got to | 0:12:37 | 0:12:42 | |
find a compromise. The compromises
were found in St Andrews, around the | 0:12:42 | 0:12:46 | |
Good Friday Agreement. I don't want
a history lesson, I don't want to be | 0:12:46 | 0:12:51 | |
rude. That was to do with the
government promising thing, not the | 0:12:51 | 0:12:56 | |
DUP. We can't recur daily-macro
rehearsed that argument. Is Sinn | 0:12:56 | 0:13:02 | |
Fein prepared to make compromises to
reach agreement? You don't want a | 0:13:02 | 0:13:06 | |
history lesson you don't want
answers? I want answers, but not a | 0:13:06 | 0:13:11 | |
history lesson. This is about the
implementation about outstanding | 0:13:11 | 0:13:17 | |
agreements. The executive, the
assembly only exists on the | 0:13:17 | 0:13:21 | |
foundations of the Good Friday
Agreement, on the foundations of the | 0:13:21 | 0:13:25 | |
St Andrews agreement. That might be
history lesson to you but that is | 0:13:25 | 0:13:28 | |
reality. He were not prepared to
compromise on that? He failed to | 0:13:28 | 0:13:35 | |
understand, the Good Friday
Agreement and St Andrews Hall | 0:13:35 | 0:13:37 | |
compromises. You cannot have cut
daily-macro negotiations then reach | 0:13:37 | 0:13:43 | |
an agreement and then say sorry.
Sinn Fein is not prepared to | 0:13:43 | 0:13:49 | |
compromise on, is that what you are
saying? Why won't you compromise on | 0:13:49 | 0:13:55 | |
the compromises? The agreements
themselves are compromises. We are | 0:13:55 | 0:14:01 | |
seeking the lamentation of
outstanding agreements. That is not | 0:14:01 | 0:14:04 | |
a loss to everyone. It is a problem
to the DUP if they don't interpret | 0:14:04 | 0:14:10 | |
it the same. There is a look of
incredulity on your face? We are | 0:14:10 | 0:14:16 | |
still trying to compromise to reach
agreement. If we get this over the | 0:14:16 | 0:14:21 | |
line there will have to be some form
of compromise and ramper sequencing | 0:14:21 | 0:14:24 | |
of how this takes place. What you
think of what John O'Dowd has said? | 0:14:24 | 0:14:28 | |
There is no sense in which people
will have to accommodate each other. | 0:14:28 | 0:14:34 | |
The reality is, life is a
compromise. If we are going to get | 0:14:34 | 0:14:39 | |
on with people around us, we have to
be willing to work with them and it | 0:14:39 | 0:14:43 | |
means give and take every day. It is
how we work together and what is | 0:14:43 | 0:14:47 | |
demanded of us all the time. We have
got to be able to do that if we are | 0:14:47 | 0:14:52 | |
to deliver. The current process,
where people are locked away in a | 0:14:52 | 0:14:57 | |
room, talking at each other, but not
understanding the challenges each | 0:14:57 | 0:15:01 | |
other have, it's not working. The
fact we are sitting here listening | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
to Gregory saying, on one hand there
will have to be compromises on all | 0:15:04 | 0:15:09 | |
sides and then on the other hand,
John saying we have already done are | 0:15:09 | 0:15:14 | |
compromising, it we are about
implementation, shows nothing has | 0:15:14 | 0:15:21 | |
moved in the last ten months. The
Secretary of State needs to get a | 0:15:21 | 0:15:25 | |
grip of this, and mediator needs to
work with the parties to try to find | 0:15:25 | 0:15:29 | |
solutions and be in a position to
challenge the intransigence where it | 0:15:29 | 0:15:33 | |
is. There is no one in charge of
driving the process and we are | 0:15:33 | 0:15:37 | |
drifting and it is having a negative
impact, not just on the public | 0:15:37 | 0:15:42 | |
services and public finances, but on
people'sperception of our ability as | 0:15:42 | 0:15:48 | |
politicians to govern Northern
Ireland. And that will not easily be | 0:15:48 | 0:15:51 | |
recovered. Does that make sense, get
someone in from outside, get | 0:15:51 | 0:15:56 | |
everybody around the table and see
if a new way can be found to break | 0:15:56 | 0:15:59 | |
the logjam? I suppose it would be a
sad indictment if we cannot resolve | 0:15:59 | 0:16:04 | |
this issue and we have to try and
bring in an outside negotiator. We | 0:16:04 | 0:16:10 | |
have had ten months, Gregory and you
haven't. People could say we were 20 | 0:16:10 | 0:16:15 | |
or 30 years and we didn't make much
progress. What do you think about | 0:16:15 | 0:16:20 | |
John O'Dowd has said, you cannot
compromise on previous commitments. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:23 | |
He doesn't have a list of the manse,
he just wants to see things | 0:16:23 | 0:16:27 | |
previously agreed being implemented?
Those agreements are not agreements, | 0:16:27 | 0:16:33 | |
the one he's talking about, they are
not agreements entered into with us. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:37 | |
They were never mentioned in the
lead up to ten months ago. We had a | 0:16:37 | 0:16:43 | |
programme for government that was
issued, published and discussed one | 0:16:43 | 0:16:47 | |
year ago. The Irish language act
didn't feature, it was an campaign | 0:16:47 | 0:16:52 | |
for, it wasn't lobbied for it wasn't
inserted, it wasn't declined because | 0:16:52 | 0:16:56 | |
it wasn't an issue. It was only an
issue in January. In the absence of | 0:16:56 | 0:17:05 | |
the Good Friday Agreement, if
Gregory is saying he hasn't signed | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
up to the Good Friday Agreement,
that is a major problem. None of | 0:17:08 | 0:17:13 | |
these situations exist in the
absence of the Good Friday | 0:17:13 | 0:17:17 | |
Agreement. MLAs, ministers,
executive First Minister, Deputy | 0:17:17 | 0:17:21 | |
First Minister, whatever title, they
all flow from the Good Friday | 0:17:21 | 0:17:27 | |
Agreement. A rights -based society
flows from the Good Friday | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
Agreement. The purpose of the
executive is multifunctional. It is | 0:17:30 | 0:17:36 | |
to run public services but also
deliver the change that was promised | 0:17:36 | 0:17:39 | |
in the Good Friday Agreement. Is
this what it has been like inside | 0:17:39 | 0:17:45 | |
the negotiating route between Sinn
Fein representatives and DUP | 0:17:45 | 0:17:48 | |
representatives? You just talk that
each other, you can't even agree on | 0:17:48 | 0:17:53 | |
the basic scaffolding of the
conversation? The conversations | 0:17:53 | 0:17:59 | |
aren't necessarily between Sinn Fein
and the DUP. The problems between | 0:17:59 | 0:18:03 | |
Sinn Fein the DUP. There are two
players, the Irish government and | 0:18:03 | 0:18:09 | |
the British government who ago
guarantors of the internationally | 0:18:09 | 0:18:13 | |
binding agreements. They should
agree with the agreements. They | 0:18:13 | 0:18:18 | |
should agree with the Good Friday
Agreement, it is an internationally | 0:18:18 | 0:18:22 | |
binding agreement. Let me ask you
about the budget and see if we can | 0:18:22 | 0:18:26 | |
move the conversation on. Does
Westminster passing a budget for | 0:18:26 | 0:18:30 | |
Northern Ireland passed the direct
rule? No, it takes us into no man's | 0:18:30 | 0:18:35 | |
land. The civil servants who are
unaccountable will continue to | 0:18:35 | 0:18:41 | |
disburse 100% of the budget with no
oversight, no political import and | 0:18:41 | 0:18:45 | |
they will be able to do that. There
will be no ministers in terms of | 0:18:45 | 0:18:49 | |
direct rule actually be able to
drive change, make decisions, it | 0:18:49 | 0:18:53 | |
will be disbursed in line with the
previous executive 's priorities and | 0:18:53 | 0:18:58 | |
policies. Any innovation or change
required cannot happen and that is a | 0:18:58 | 0:19:01 | |
major issue, so I don't think it is
direct rule. It is more drift and | 0:19:01 | 0:19:06 | |
this is the problem I sense in
listening to the other contributors. | 0:19:06 | 0:19:10 | |
What we have is this constant drift,
nobody seems to be willing to take | 0:19:10 | 0:19:14 | |
charge and command of the process in
order to bring people to the room | 0:19:14 | 0:19:19 | |
where people acknowledge the Irish
language is on the agenda, Gregory. | 0:19:19 | 0:19:23 | |
People like you have persistently
mocked and denigrated it. You put it | 0:19:23 | 0:19:27 | |
back onto the agenda along with your
colleagues who swept away the need | 0:19:27 | 0:19:33 | |
for grants. People feel it needs
protecting. It is a genuine issue | 0:19:33 | 0:19:38 | |
people daily-macro for people. It is
work that needs to be done in order | 0:19:38 | 0:19:47 | |
to get devolution restored. The
things that matter to you will not | 0:19:47 | 0:19:51 | |
be delivered by direct rule. Let's
bring Gregory in to respond. What | 0:19:51 | 0:19:57 | |
Naomi doesn't understand is the
Irish language, at the moment in | 0:19:57 | 0:20:03 | |
2017, and for years, has been better
treated than all other minority | 0:20:03 | 0:20:07 | |
languages in Northern Ireland. What
seems to be required of some people | 0:20:07 | 0:20:12 | |
is that there has to be additional
safeguards on what is already there | 0:20:12 | 0:20:18 | |
at the moment. What about the
commitment in the St Andrews | 0:20:18 | 0:20:22 | |
agreement? Commitment between who?
There is a commitment in the St | 0:20:22 | 0:20:27 | |
Andrews agreement that says the
government will deliver an Irish | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
language act. It is not about the
British government because we don't | 0:20:30 | 0:20:34 | |
have direct rule. But when I spoke
to Dermot Ahern, he said there was a | 0:20:34 | 0:20:38 | |
clear understanding on the part of
the DUP that was agreed and it will | 0:20:38 | 0:20:42 | |
be implemented if devolution was
restored. Is he not right in his | 0:20:42 | 0:20:47 | |
recollection? He is not right. If
you check the St Andrews agreement | 0:20:47 | 0:20:51 | |
and the assessments of it at the
time and since, he can be as clear | 0:20:51 | 0:20:55 | |
as he wants. The issue you raised
about the budget, two beneficial | 0:20:55 | 0:21:02 | |
effects from the budget. One is, it
allows departmental responsibility | 0:21:02 | 0:21:10 | |
to be carried out and resource,
which it isn't at the moment. The | 0:21:10 | 0:21:16 | |
additional money we negotiated from
the Conservatives several months ago | 0:21:16 | 0:21:20 | |
can begin to flow into education and
health service, then benefiting. | 0:21:20 | 0:21:25 | |
Hopefully nobody will stand in the
wake of that. John O'Dowd, if James | 0:21:25 | 0:21:30 | |
Brokenshire our puts forward a
budget in Westminster the week after | 0:21:30 | 0:21:34 | |
next, Conor Murphy said it is the
end of the current talks process, | 0:21:34 | 0:21:38 | |
the SDLP says it is a return to
direct rule, what the Sinn Fein do | 0:21:38 | 0:21:43 | |
at that time? James Brokenshire is
going in the wrong direction and has | 0:21:43 | 0:21:47 | |
been told he's going in the wrong
direction by our party. We will | 0:21:47 | 0:21:51 | |
evaluate each stage of this process.
We have said we will evaluate the | 0:21:51 | 0:21:56 | |
previous talks process and where we
go next in terms of if there is | 0:21:56 | 0:22:00 | |
future talks process. If there is a
future talks process? Yes, we have | 0:22:00 | 0:22:06 | |
do have a process which is
meaningful. Is there no talks | 0:22:06 | 0:22:10 | |
process at the moment, as we speak
tonight? James Brokenshire statement | 0:22:10 | 0:22:14 | |
the other date brought the talks
process we are involved in to a | 0:22:14 | 0:22:21 | |
halt. Some people believe talking is
sufficient in itself, but we have to | 0:22:21 | 0:22:27 | |
bring about resolution. It is dead
in the water as far as you are | 0:22:27 | 0:22:32 | |
concerned? The current phase has
come to an end, what we need to do | 0:22:32 | 0:22:34 | |
is move into and meaningful
negotiation. | 0:22:34 | 0:22:41 | |
Thank you all. | 0:22:41 | 0:22:42 | |
Now, are there elements
in nationalism which will never | 0:22:42 | 0:22:44 | |
fully embrace the PSNI? | 0:22:44 | 0:22:45 | |
The issue came to the fore this week
following an interview | 0:22:45 | 0:22:48 | |
with Peadar Heffron,
the former GAA player and police | 0:22:48 | 0:22:56 | |
officer who was severely injured
in a dissident republican car bomb | 0:22:56 | 0:22:59 | |
attack in 2010. | 0:22:59 | 0:23:00 | |
He told the Sunday Independent
he felt shunned by his old club | 0:23:00 | 0:23:03 | |
and some of his team-mates
when he joined the police, and again | 0:23:03 | 0:23:06 | |
after he was badly injured. | 0:23:06 | 0:23:07 | |
The relationship between
the two organisations has | 0:23:07 | 0:23:09 | |
always been complex. | 0:23:09 | 0:23:11 | |
The motion is carried. At around
6:30 a:m., 33-year-old constable | 0:23:23 | 0:23:35 | |
Peadar Heffron left his home in
Milltown and was on his way to work | 0:23:35 | 0:23:40 | |
in west Belfast. He given about a
mile when the bomb went off. Behind | 0:23:40 | 0:23:44 | |
the coughing, roaming care's mother,
just a day after the murder she | 0:23:44 | 0:23:50 | |
appealed to Catholics in the police
service not to give the terrorists | 0:23:50 | 0:23:53 | |
who killed her son. The village was
at a standstill. The only sound, the | 0:23:53 | 0:23:59 | |
footsteps of the police officers and
GAA players who formed a joint guard | 0:23:59 | 0:24:03 | |
of honour. Peadar Heffron won the
gay lick football championships at | 0:24:03 | 0:24:08 | |
this club. He also lost friendships.
Shunned by team-mates and lifelong | 0:24:08 | 0:24:13 | |
friends after telling them he was
joining the PSNI. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:17 | |
With me now is the former
All-Ireland champion | 0:24:17 | 0:24:20 | |
and SDLP MLA Justin McNulty,
Sinn Fein's Gerry Kelly, | 0:24:20 | 0:24:23 | |
and in our Foyle studio
is and Denis Bradley, | 0:24:23 | 0:24:25 | |
a former vice-chairman
of the Policing Board. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:27 | |
Denis Bradley. | 0:24:27 | 0:24:30 | |
It was very clear from
Peadar Heffron's comments | 0:24:30 | 0:24:34 | |
in the interview he did
for the Sunday Independent | 0:24:34 | 0:24:36 | |
that he is very sore about the way
he was treated by his former friends | 0:24:36 | 0:24:40 | |
and team-mates before
and after the attack. | 0:24:40 | 0:24:42 | |
How do you feel about
what he had to say? | 0:24:42 | 0:24:51 | |
He is a young man who joined the
PSNI early on and I think he thought | 0:24:51 | 0:24:55 | |
he was joining a police force that
had the complete and total | 0:24:55 | 0:25:01 | |
allegiance of the people of Northern
Ireland. I think he thought even | 0:25:01 | 0:25:09 | |
bear to serve his community and it
was back community, along with the | 0:25:09 | 0:25:13 | |
Unionists, but particularly his
community, they were totally and | 0:25:13 | 0:25:16 | |
completely behind him. I think that
we have to listen to what he says | 0:25:16 | 0:25:21 | |
because there is more than a
possibility, there is a thing | 0:25:21 | 0:25:26 | |
nationalism needs to look and hear
what he has to say because sometimes | 0:25:26 | 0:25:30 | |
we stuttered along this issue.
Sometimes we were a bit self | 0:25:30 | 0:25:35 | |
protective. I mean the broad
nationalism, the major institutions | 0:25:35 | 0:25:38 | |
of nationalism like the GAA, like
the church, like some other | 0:25:38 | 0:25:45 | |
political parties, not all of them,
but a lot of the political parties | 0:25:45 | 0:25:50 | |
and areas of the Irish government.
By thing he thought he was entering | 0:25:50 | 0:25:53 | |
into that new arena which was
totally supportive of the police. | 0:25:53 | 0:25:57 | |
Not critical of the police, it is
interesting, nobody would ever | 0:25:57 | 0:26:07 | |
question that as an Irish man
serving the Irish people. I think | 0:26:07 | 0:26:12 | |
Peadar Heffron thought he was
entering into a situation where he | 0:26:12 | 0:26:15 | |
would have the broad support of
people and be accepted as an Irish | 0:26:15 | 0:26:19 | |
police officer serving his people. I
think what he discovered, and we | 0:26:19 | 0:26:23 | |
need to reflect upon this, as a
community of people, now because we | 0:26:23 | 0:26:27 | |
have this contemporary, current
question. Are we completely, totally | 0:26:27 | 0:26:34 | |
committed that every young man and
woman from the nationalist community | 0:26:34 | 0:26:38 | |
in Northern Ireland who joins the
PSNI is in fact a young Irish police | 0:26:38 | 0:26:44 | |
officer or policewoman, who has the
full and total support of that broad | 0:26:44 | 0:26:49 | |
community? Gerry Kelly, could you
sign up to that? Yes. We signed up | 0:26:49 | 0:26:57 | |
to the policing service that should
be representative, it should be | 0:26:57 | 0:27:01 | |
accountable and nonpolitical and
nonpartisan. | 0:27:01 | 0:27:19 | |
We want 50/50 recruitment,
particularly to make up the balance | 0:27:19 | 0:27:27 | |
of Catholics and nationalists. More
than ten years since Sinn Fein | 0:27:27 | 0:27:32 | |
endorsed policing, is there still
within the broader nationalist | 0:27:32 | 0:27:36 | |
community and acceptability issue as
far as young men and women joining | 0:27:36 | 0:27:40 | |
the PSNI is concerned? What do you
mean by acceptable? In that they are | 0:27:40 | 0:27:47 | |
not entirely accepted as police
officers from within that community. | 0:27:47 | 0:27:51 | |
You have to talk about this in a
certain way in general, so generally | 0:27:51 | 0:27:55 | |
the vast majority of people do look
upon Catholics, Protestants, | 0:27:55 | 0:27:59 | |
whatever their politics might be, as
joining the police service. We know | 0:27:59 | 0:28:08 | |
there was a police officer who had a
device under his car in Derry | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
earlier this year, we know Peadar
Heffron was grievously maimed. So | 0:28:11 | 0:28:17 | |
for some people it continues to be
an issue. And I agree with that as | 0:28:17 | 0:28:22 | |
well, for some people there is an
issue. What can be done to make it | 0:28:22 | 0:28:26 | |
not an issue for those people? That
is the point. The issue of | 0:28:26 | 0:28:31 | |
confidence in policing is an issue
also for the police as well. There | 0:28:31 | 0:28:34 | |
are people who will never, and you
say within nationalism, we're | 0:28:34 | 0:28:39 | |
talking about people who have been
attacked from within certain | 0:28:39 | 0:28:43 | |
sections of nationalism, but there
isn't necessary full support of the | 0:28:43 | 0:28:54 | |
police in unionism as well. I
understand that. You have argued | 0:28:54 | 0:29:00 | |
this entirely on nationalism, but I
understand that that is because of | 0:29:00 | 0:29:02 | |
the effects.
You are an all Ireland medal winner, | 0:29:02 | 0:29:09 | |
no question about your prowess on
the sporting field, but as somebody | 0:29:09 | 0:29:13 | |
who is passionate about the sport,
do you think there is a problem here | 0:29:13 | 0:29:18 | |
within some elements may be of the
GAA and the broader national | 0:29:18 | 0:29:26 | |
community in accepting policing as
it is. I can only speak for someone | 0:29:26 | 0:29:32 | |
who has a lot of experience of being
in the GAA, and they have shown a | 0:29:32 | 0:29:37 | |
lot of leadership in the start along
with the SDLP and the Catholic | 0:29:37 | 0:29:40 | |
Church in supporting policing.
Despite opposition from within the | 0:29:40 | 0:29:47 | |
ranks, the GAA still pushed ahead
and abolished rule 21. There is an | 0:29:47 | 0:29:53 | |
unwritten rule which was part of my
experience with every team I have | 0:29:53 | 0:29:56 | |
played, which is you leave your
politics at the door. You leave your | 0:29:56 | 0:29:59 | |
politics at the gate, and I think
the GAA has made brave moves towards | 0:29:59 | 0:30:04 | |
making it more acceptable for people
to be part of the PSNI. But when you | 0:30:04 | 0:30:12 | |
look at what happened to Peadar
Heffron, that is clearly not the | 0:30:12 | 0:30:15 | |
case. There were individuals
involved in the sport alongside | 0:30:15 | 0:30:21 | |
Peadar Heffron, he clearly in his
view if you read that article | 0:30:21 | 0:30:24 | |
carefully, he feels that there were
former team-mate who clearly did not | 0:30:24 | 0:30:27 | |
accept his decision to join the
police, were not happy about it, and | 0:30:27 | 0:30:32 | |
he suggests that he would have
serious question marks about who was | 0:30:32 | 0:30:35 | |
responsible for the attack that took
place on him. What happened to | 0:30:35 | 0:30:40 | |
Peadar Heffron was horrific and it
was wrong. The rank-and-file of the | 0:30:40 | 0:30:44 | |
GAA are as disgusted about what
happened to Peadar Heffron as I am. | 0:30:44 | 0:30:48 | |
I can't speak to the circumstances
of the issues around that club at | 0:30:48 | 0:30:53 | |
that time, I can't speak for those,
but I know that the people in the | 0:30:53 | 0:30:59 | |
GAA were disgusted by that would not
support action like that in the | 0:30:59 | 0:31:02 | |
future. And I'm sure the club would
want to make it very clear it | 0:31:02 | 0:31:05 | |
wouldn't be supportive as a club of
any of the actions that we are | 0:31:05 | 0:31:10 | |
talking about here. It comes down to
individuals at the end of the day. | 0:31:10 | 0:31:16 | |
Do you think that more can be done,
more needs to be done to make people | 0:31:16 | 0:31:20 | |
feel comfortable within their own
community? They will make that | 0:31:20 | 0:31:23 | |
decision, you took a stand and said
people from the nationalist | 0:31:23 | 0:31:27 | |
community should be able to join the
police, and you have just explained | 0:31:27 | 0:31:29 | |
why that is so important from your
point of view. What more can be done | 0:31:29 | 0:31:34 | |
to make it more acceptable and make
sure that there are no more Ronan | 0:31:34 | 0:31:37 | |
Kerrs and no more Peadar Heffrons.
There will be young men at this | 0:31:37 | 0:31:44 | |
point of time deciding whether to go
forward for recruitment to the PSNI, | 0:31:44 | 0:31:47 | |
and they know that there are
dissidents out there and people | 0:31:47 | 0:31:50 | |
disagree, thankfully it is not that
many, but there are attacks on | 0:31:50 | 0:31:59 | |
police officers and Peadar Heffron
is the most traumatic example of | 0:31:59 | 0:32:02 | |
that. But I'm not sure they are so
afraid of that. If they have the | 0:32:02 | 0:32:05 | |
feeling of the confidence that the
total nationalist community in its | 0:32:05 | 0:32:11 | |
multi-representation, GAA
particularly very strong, Catholic | 0:32:11 | 0:32:14 | |
Church very strong, that if they are
convinced that community stands 100% | 0:32:14 | 0:32:18 | |
behind them, that it doesn't be kind
of 90% or 80% behind them, they need | 0:32:18 | 0:32:27 | |
to be fully and totally behind them,
that is what the new dispensation | 0:32:27 | 0:32:32 | |
was about. And are you satisfied
with what you've heard from Gerry | 0:32:32 | 0:32:37 | |
Kelly and Justin McNulty on that?
Have they been fulsome enough in | 0:32:37 | 0:32:40 | |
giving their support to the new
arrangements? Or can either of them | 0:32:40 | 0:32:45 | |
do any more or say any more, in your
view? The history of this in my | 0:32:45 | 0:32:50 | |
opinion is that the SDLP work --
were completely on board, and the | 0:32:50 | 0:33:02 | |
others eventually came. The big
moment on policing in Northern | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
Ireland was Martin McGuinness, when
in 2008 at the death of a police | 0:33:05 | 0:33:11 | |
officer, he stood beside Hugh Orde
and said, when people kill or injure | 0:33:11 | 0:33:19 | |
police officers, they are traitors.
The only way you interpret that is | 0:33:19 | 0:33:23 | |
that they are killing Irish men. And
it has to be like that. In the face | 0:33:23 | 0:33:30 | |
of where we stand at this moment in
time, our politics are not in a | 0:33:30 | 0:33:33 | |
great place, so if I am a young
person and looking at the political | 0:33:33 | 0:33:37 | |
situation, I need to hear very
strong voices coming from the | 0:33:37 | 0:33:41 | |
Catholic Church, from Sinn Fein,
from the Irish government, that they | 0:33:41 | 0:33:45 | |
are 100%, not just 80%, that there
is no tepid nurse about this, they | 0:33:45 | 0:33:50 | |
are not just supportive in a nice
friendly way, that they are | 0:33:50 | 0:33:53 | |
completely and totally behind it,
and that makes my decision to go | 0:33:53 | 0:33:56 | |
forward and join policing much more
comfortable for me and for my | 0:33:56 | 0:34:02 | |
family, because then we are not
facing two situations, one is the | 0:34:02 | 0:34:07 | |
danger of being attacked and the
other is being not completely | 0:34:07 | 0:34:13 | |
accepted within the community
because the community is a bit self | 0:34:13 | 0:34:17 | |
protective. So there is a danger of
being attacked and also the danger | 0:34:17 | 0:34:20 | |
of being ostracised from your own
community. Ostracised is too strong. | 0:34:20 | 0:34:24 | |
I wouldn't use that word. But not
being fully, absolutely, totally, | 0:34:24 | 0:34:29 | |
warmly engaged. Thank you for the
clarification. Can you sign up 100% | 0:34:29 | 0:34:34 | |
about? Are you relaxed about that? I
am the police spokesperson for Sinn | 0:34:34 | 0:34:39 | |
Fein, so I am the one who normally
talks with this. I would challenge | 0:34:39 | 0:34:42 | |
you to point to any time when I have
been on the media where I haven't | 0:34:42 | 0:34:47 | |
condemned the attacks, wherever
haven't been up front not only would | 0:34:47 | 0:34:49 | |
the police attacks but on dissident
activity entirely, which includes | 0:34:49 | 0:34:53 | |
actively on the ground when they
were trying to intimidate workers in | 0:34:53 | 0:34:58 | |
building site etc. So there is no
Abigail Eddie in this at all. Let me | 0:34:58 | 0:35:06 | |
-- there is no ambiguity in this at
all. All parties support the police. | 0:35:06 | 0:35:13 | |
I have watched Unionist terror them
asunder over things that have | 0:35:13 | 0:35:17 | |
happened. So that is why I challenge
you when you talk about nationalism. | 0:35:17 | 0:35:27 | |
So yes, I absolutely without
contradiction support the police, | 0:35:27 | 0:35:32 | |
the PSNI. But I will also criticise
them if I believe they are doing | 0:35:32 | 0:35:36 | |
wrong. And in an article I read that
Dennis wrote, he says it doesn't | 0:35:36 | 0:35:41 | |
mean you can't be uncritical of the
police. You can support the above | 0:35:41 | 0:35:48 | |
also be critical. Your party
chairperson is related in fact to | 0:35:48 | 0:35:52 | |
Peadar Heffron and is on the record
as saying that, and he was very | 0:35:52 | 0:35:57 | |
critical of what happened to Peadar
Heffron and visited the family, as | 0:35:57 | 0:36:00 | |
you would expect. He has made his
opposition to the attack here. His | 0:36:00 | 0:36:04 | |
statement yesterday, let me quote
it. No one should be marginalised | 0:36:04 | 0:36:07 | |
due to membership of the PSNI. Linda
Dillon, your party spokesperson on | 0:36:07 | 0:36:12 | |
victims and legacy. Nobody should be
marginalised because they choose a | 0:36:12 | 0:36:16 | |
career in the PSNI. What language
would you use? If I were to write a | 0:36:16 | 0:36:23 | |
statement, that is the language I
would use as well. That is not | 0:36:23 | 0:36:28 | |
enough. Young Irish men and women
who join the gardai are young Irish | 0:36:28 | 0:36:34 | |
policemen and women, and the PSNI
should be held with the same respect | 0:36:34 | 0:36:39 | |
and esteem. There is too much
ambiguity around that statement, it | 0:36:39 | 0:36:42 | |
is too soft. People who join the
police are brave young men and women | 0:36:42 | 0:36:48 | |
and should be supported. So you
think those statements should have | 0:36:48 | 0:36:51 | |
gone further? They should be admired
by the community for the service | 0:36:51 | 0:36:55 | |
they provide in keeping people safe
in their homes. There is the | 0:36:55 | 0:36:59 | |
criticism. I will let you answer it,
but the statements don't go far | 0:36:59 | 0:37:04 | |
enough, that is the criticism. I
agree with an awful lot of what he | 0:37:04 | 0:37:09 | |
says. This becomes a word game. I
have said absolutely that I support | 0:37:09 | 0:37:14 | |
people, and let me be very personal
about it, there have been people who | 0:37:14 | 0:37:17 | |
have come into my office, who have
asked to be mocked what my view of | 0:37:17 | 0:37:22 | |
it is, and I have said I will
support them in any way they want, | 0:37:22 | 0:37:25 | |
and I have said that publicly on the
TV now. So I don't know where the | 0:37:25 | 0:37:31 | |
ambiguity I am trying to defend
here, it is quite party political, | 0:37:31 | 0:37:34 | |
to be honest. Saying young people
shouldn't be marginalised is not | 0:37:34 | 0:37:38 | |
saying that you support them joining
the police. It is a vague and it | 0:37:38 | 0:37:43 | |
doesn't give them. I'm delighted you
support them, all parties should | 0:37:43 | 0:37:48 | |
fully support young people who have
the confidence and bravery to go and | 0:37:48 | 0:37:52 | |
do an admirable local profession
which is being the butt of the | 0:37:52 | 0:37:55 | |
police, we should all endorse that.
Would you choose different language | 0:37:55 | 0:38:01 | |
based on what he has said? I have
talked on this programme before, I | 0:38:01 | 0:38:05 | |
am not been to contradict myself in
another week, but let me say this | 0:38:05 | 0:38:08 | |
very clearly. In issues where the
police are wrong, I will still be | 0:38:08 | 0:38:14 | |
criticising them. That is not what
we are talking about tonight. It is, | 0:38:14 | 0:38:19 | |
because he says it is absolute
support no matter what they do, and | 0:38:19 | 0:38:23 | |
that includes individuals within the
police, and they have some | 0:38:23 | 0:38:26 | |
individuals who have acted wrongly,
and I will come out and condemn that | 0:38:26 | 0:38:29 | |
as well. Have you ever had a
conversation with a young | 0:38:29 | 0:38:35 | |
nationalist who says I fancy a
career in the police, Gerry Kelly, | 0:38:35 | 0:38:38 | |
should I do that or not? I have had
a conversation similar to it. And | 0:38:38 | 0:38:43 | |
what did you say? And they say, they
don't say, should I or should I not, | 0:38:43 | 0:38:49 | |
they say, I'm thinking of joining
the police, do you think it is OK, | 0:38:49 | 0:38:52 | |
would you support me on it? And I
say, I will support you on it, is | 0:38:52 | 0:38:57 | |
there any help you need. I do have
contacted the police, I can guide | 0:38:57 | 0:39:01 | |
them through the process. So you
would say, yes, it is a decent | 0:39:01 | 0:39:05 | |
career and you should think about
it. Yes. They are Irish people in an | 0:39:05 | 0:39:10 | |
Irish police force. All right. The
last answer very quickly on this. Do | 0:39:10 | 0:39:14 | |
you believe, and I would ask you to
be brief, do you believe GAA members | 0:39:14 | 0:39:19 | |
can at the moment join the PSNI and
continue to live critically in their | 0:39:19 | 0:39:23 | |
own communities and play for their
local clubs? I think the GAA have | 0:39:23 | 0:39:29 | |
done good work, I wouldn't be
completely critical of them. Sinn | 0:39:29 | 0:39:35 | |
Fein is powerful in this and I think
it is important that they go the | 0:39:35 | 0:39:38 | |
extra step, not just of condemning
with actively encouraging young | 0:39:38 | 0:39:42 | |
people to get involved, but I also
think they have a big role to play | 0:39:42 | 0:39:47 | |
in this. They need to speak loud and
clear. There is a new recruitment | 0:39:47 | 0:39:50 | |
drive going on at the moment, and
I'm told that actually they want | 0:39:50 | 0:39:55 | |
people from the west of Northern
Ireland actively joined, and they | 0:39:55 | 0:39:59 | |
are having some difficulty in that
direction. I think the government | 0:39:59 | 0:40:01 | |
can give a lead and Sinn Fein need
to get behind that, the SDLP needs | 0:40:01 | 0:40:05 | |
to get behind it and the Catholic
Church, particularly the GAA. We are | 0:40:05 | 0:40:10 | |
out of time. We are the ones who say
that they need to go into the | 0:40:10 | 0:40:15 | |
working class areas. Folks, we need
to leave it there. Thank you all | 0:40:15 | 0:40:20 | |
very much indeed for joining us. | 0:40:20 | 0:40:25 | |
Let's hear what tonight's
commentators make of what we've been | 0:40:25 | 0:40:28 | |
discussing, and it's a welcome
return to Alex Kane | 0:40:28 | 0:40:30 | |
and Fionnuala O'Connor. | 0:40:30 | 0:40:31 | |
Welcome to you both. I want to hear
your thoughts, first of all on that | 0:40:31 | 0:40:34 | |
conversation that we have just had.
Do you believe there is a problem | 0:40:34 | 0:40:38 | |
with policing, and some elements
within the nationalist community? | 0:40:38 | 0:40:45 | |
Yes, and I do believe that there
will be continuing to be trouble, | 0:40:45 | 0:40:50 | |
and particulars with Denis saying,
and he has worked so hard on this, | 0:40:50 | 0:40:58 | |
people in every community in
Northern Ireland should be welcomed | 0:40:58 | 0:41:00 | |
and encouraged to go into the PSNI,
and you ask could they still live in | 0:41:00 | 0:41:06 | |
their communities? Nobody can say
that confidently because dissidents | 0:41:06 | 0:41:10 | |
are targeting Catholics in their
homes when they join the PSNI, so | 0:41:10 | 0:41:13 | |
that is a big problem. And they are
caught between the terror of the | 0:41:13 | 0:41:21 | |
dissidents and the lingering
suspicions about the PSNI whose | 0:41:21 | 0:41:25 | |
refusal to examine collusion in the
past and refusal to face up to | 0:41:25 | 0:41:31 | |
inadequate catholic representation
in the PSNI at the present will | 0:41:31 | 0:41:34 | |
continue to fuel. Alex, what did you
make of that exchange in particular | 0:41:34 | 0:41:38 | |
between representatives of the SDLP
and Sinn Fein? I think it is clear | 0:41:38 | 0:41:44 | |
that Sinn Fein and the SDLP, the
GAA, as organisations, have crossed | 0:41:44 | 0:41:49 | |
that particular Rubicon in terms of
young nationalists being members of | 0:41:49 | 0:41:53 | |
the PSNI. The equally clearly there
are sections of nationalism and | 0:41:53 | 0:41:57 | |
republicanism which will not cross
the Rubicon, and it doesn't matter | 0:41:57 | 0:42:01 | |
tonight what Justin Dennis any one
else says about that, those people | 0:42:01 | 0:42:04 | |
will never believe that nationalists
should be involved in the police | 0:42:04 | 0:42:10 | |
force, it is that simple. I don't
know what you made about the | 0:42:10 | 0:42:13 | |
conversation about talks about talks
at top of the programme, but if it | 0:42:13 | 0:42:16 | |
gives us any hint as to what the
debate might be like in the | 0:42:16 | 0:42:19 | |
negotiating room, maybe it is no
great surprise that a resolution to | 0:42:19 | 0:42:24 | |
outstanding issues has not yet been
reached? The irony is that he said | 0:42:24 | 0:42:29 | |
it clearly more clearly than John
was able to, he said, Gregory, the | 0:42:29 | 0:42:38 | |
problem why it became an issue was
people like you treated it with | 0:42:38 | 0:42:42 | |
contempt. She also said, she then
tried to say to balance it with | 0:42:42 | 0:42:48 | |
things that Sinn Fein have to do
about devolution, and that wasn't | 0:42:48 | 0:42:52 | |
nearly as clear. She knows perfectly
well that John is right, that | 0:42:52 | 0:42:58 | |
arguments were made in the Good
Friday Agreement and have not been | 0:42:58 | 0:43:02 | |
implemented, the DUP never did sign
up, and the fact they fought to the | 0:43:02 | 0:43:05 | |
last minute against the Good Friday
Agreement, so nobody could have | 0:43:05 | 0:43:08 | |
expected them to prevent it, but
that is the basic problem. Alex? I | 0:43:08 | 0:43:13 | |
was interested when I came in the
ceiling of both the DUP and Sinn | 0:43:13 | 0:43:16 | |
Fein were debating this, because it
has been months since they sat down, | 0:43:16 | 0:43:19 | |
and I thought we might learn why,
was the gap small, could it be | 0:43:19 | 0:43:24 | |
resolved fairly quickly? We were not
even clear there was a talks | 0:43:24 | 0:43:30 | |
process! Gregory seemed to think
they could be in tomorrow, and John | 0:43:30 | 0:43:33 | |
was saying, there isn't even a
process at the moment. I think the | 0:43:33 | 0:43:39 | |
difficulty is, I think Sinn Fein and
the DUP could compromise, but the | 0:43:39 | 0:43:42 | |
grassroots to want to this time. We
don't know if the talking continues | 0:43:42 | 0:43:46 | |
or not, there is a lot that we don't
know! Thank you very much for | 0:43:46 | 0:43:49 | |
joining me tonight. | 0:43:49 | 0:43:50 | |
That's it from The View
for this week. | 0:43:50 | 0:43:52 | |
Join me for Sunday Politics
at 11.35 here on BBC One. | 0:43:52 | 0:43:55 | |
For now, though, we leave
you with a reminder of the pressing | 0:43:55 | 0:43:58 | |
nature of political deadlines -
every last one of them. | 0:43:58 | 0:44:00 | |
Bye bye. | 0:44:00 | 0:44:02 | |
# Ring, ring, ring as the telephone
# The lights are on but there is | 0:44:07 | 0:44:12 | |
nobody home...
There is a sense of urgency of what | 0:44:12 | 0:44:16 | |
is at hand here, there was a
three-week window. We are now | 0:44:16 | 0:44:19 | |
entering the final few days open to
the political parties. We now have a | 0:44:19 | 0:44:24 | |
short window of opportunity. The
current situation cannot drift on | 0:44:24 | 0:44:27 | |
for very long at all. Yes, there is
this window of opportunity. We | 0:44:27 | 0:44:32 | |
legislated to extend the deadline
for the formation of an executive. | 0:44:32 | 0:44:37 | |
The coming hours will be crucial. It
is my strong wish to do this as soon | 0:44:37 | 0:44:42 | |
as possible. We have obviously now
passed a point where it is not | 0:44:42 | 0:44:47 | |
possible in my judgment for a budget
bill to be provided here in Northern | 0:44:47 | 0:44:51 | |
Ireland. There are consequences of
not being able to get that agreement | 0:44:51 | 0:44:55 | |
at this point in time. | 0:44:55 | 0:44:58 |