Browse content similar to 11/01/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
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No agreement on a Stormont deal,
nor on who should run | 0:00:03 | 0:00:06 | |
the place instead,
but a series of increasingly | 0:00:06 | 0:00:08 | |
toxic exchanges between
two political tribes. | 0:00:08 | 0:00:12 | |
So has all hope now gone
for the restoration of devolution? | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
Welcome to The View. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:19 | |
All last year hopes were being held
out for a deal to get Stormont | 0:00:37 | 0:00:41 | |
up and running again,
but barely two weeks into 2018 | 0:00:41 | 0:00:45 | |
and it's emerged that one
of tonight's guests is looking | 0:00:45 | 0:00:49 | |
for other work because he doesn't
think Stormont is coming back. | 0:00:49 | 0:00:51 | |
The DUP's Edwin Poots says he'd
prefer to stay in politics | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
and a working Assembly than get
a new job, but we'll ask him | 0:00:54 | 0:00:57 | |
and Sinn Fein's John O'Dowd
about what appears to be a very slim | 0:00:57 | 0:01:01 | |
chance of their parties forming
an Executive together again. | 0:01:01 | 0:01:05 | |
All of that comes at the end
of a week where another | 0:01:05 | 0:01:08 | |
politician's tweet -
whether intended or unintended - | 0:01:08 | 0:01:11 | |
has raised suspicions
and lowered expectations. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:17 | |
That is why we have a political
process, because people believed | 0:01:17 | 0:01:22 | |
their game was up with outright
terrorism and violence. Had they had | 0:01:22 | 0:01:26 | |
a change within their mindset and
hearts, actually they have to do | 0:01:26 | 0:01:29 | |
business in a different way. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:30 | |
And no strangers to the airwaves,
but newbies in Commentators' Corner, | 0:01:30 | 0:01:33 | |
we welcome on board Allison Morris
from the Irish News | 0:01:33 | 0:01:35 | |
and the News Letter's Sam McBride. | 0:01:35 | 0:01:39 | |
Is it only in Northern Ireland that
an image of a man with a loaf | 0:01:44 | 0:01:47 | |
of bread on his head could lead
to a political crisis? | 0:01:47 | 0:01:50 | |
But that's what happened here this
week - and we're still calculating | 0:01:50 | 0:01:53 | |
the possible damage. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:54 | |
Sinn Fein called the actions
of Barry McElduff indefensible, | 0:01:54 | 0:01:58 | |
but the party's decision to suspend
the West Tyrone MP - | 0:01:58 | 0:02:01 | |
and not expel him - appears to have
compounded the situation. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:03 | |
In a moment we'll hear
from Sinn Fein and from the DUP, | 0:02:03 | 0:02:07 | |
which says republicans must stop
glorifying IRA terrorism. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:10 | |
But first Gareth Gordon assesses how
bad the fall-out from this | 0:02:10 | 0:02:13 | |
strangest of affairs might be. | 0:02:13 | 0:02:21 | |
This is the Sinn Fein side on the
third floor. That sat there is DUP | 0:02:21 | 0:02:26 | |
territory, but that is where I have
to go to get a Snickers. This is | 0:02:26 | 0:02:32 | |
Barry McElduff doing what he does. I
put a pound in the DUP vending | 0:02:32 | 0:02:38 | |
machine, and I got £1 60 back... And
this is the moment the joke | 0:02:38 | 0:02:51 | |
backfired on Barry McElduff and his
party. I am at a classic | 0:02:51 | 0:02:57 | |
devastation, and I wonder where they
keep the bread? The MP with the | 0:02:57 | 0:03:01 | |
Kingsmill loaf on its head denied
knowing it was the anniversary of | 0:03:01 | 0:03:05 | |
the Kingsmills massacre. I have no
doubt that hurt and pain has been | 0:03:05 | 0:03:09 | |
caused, but, you know, it was
genuinely unintended on my part. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:13 | |
That is not the way it has turned
out. No matter how one examines it, | 0:03:13 | 0:03:20 | |
it was offensive. Coming from where
I come from, there is only a handful | 0:03:20 | 0:03:26 | |
of Protestant families in our
immediate area. I think there has | 0:03:26 | 0:03:30 | |
always been a great sense of
protection and protectiveness of | 0:03:30 | 0:03:35 | |
those Protestant families among the
Catholics and nationalists living in | 0:03:35 | 0:03:39 | |
that area. So, if you offend one of
those you will offend me. The | 0:03:39 | 0:03:44 | |
journalist reflected the widespread
sense of outrage that went well | 0:03:44 | 0:03:50 | |
beyond the unionist community. In
the run-up to the first anniversary | 0:03:50 | 0:03:54 | |
of Martin McGuinness resignation as
First Minister, it puts Sinn Fein on | 0:03:54 | 0:03:58 | |
the back foot at the worst possible
time. After being summoned to the | 0:03:58 | 0:04:04 | |
leadership, Barry McElduff left
suspended the not expelled as many | 0:04:04 | 0:04:08 | |
thought he should have been. It is
hard to imagine relations between | 0:04:08 | 0:04:12 | |
DUP and Sinn Fein getting any worse.
But this episode may just have done | 0:04:12 | 0:04:17 | |
it. The DUP leader visited the
Kingsmills families, many said they | 0:04:17 | 0:04:22 | |
were shocked by the punishment. I
think it is a pathetic response from | 0:04:22 | 0:04:26 | |
the Sinn Fein leadership. They
should really reflect on this | 0:04:26 | 0:04:29 | |
tonight. It is a feeling shared by
this journalist who has written | 0:04:29 | 0:04:34 | |
widely on the plight of victims.
What if one of the DUP politicians | 0:04:34 | 0:04:41 | |
who thinks their hell areas, and
Iraq a few of those around as well, | 0:04:41 | 0:04:43 | |
what if he had gone around with a
pan on his head on the anniversary | 0:04:43 | 0:04:53 | |
of the book isn't massacre. -- and
there are a few of those. With the | 0:04:53 | 0:04:58 | |
DUP be happy if they got a slap on
the wrist and a three-month | 0:04:58 | 0:05:02 | |
suspension on full pay. That is the
way we need to think about this. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:06 | |
Sinn Fein has made very light of
this and they talked about it at | 0:05:06 | 0:05:14 | |
first as if he thought it was very
serious, but when it came to it, the | 0:05:14 | 0:05:20 | |
sanction was extremely light by any
standards. So why did Sinn Fein take | 0:05:20 | 0:05:25 | |
the course they did? Anyway short of
expelling Barry McElduff, I thought | 0:05:25 | 0:05:30 | |
they were never going to satisfy
their political opponents. Given | 0:05:30 | 0:05:35 | |
that, clearly the leadership of
champagne at this, believe Barry | 0:05:35 | 0:05:39 | |
McElduff account that this is an
awful coincidence. That action fame. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:44 | |
I never thought they would expel
them. Barry McElduff as an awful lot | 0:05:44 | 0:05:51 | |
of what to do to salvage that
reputation, that has to be ditching | 0:05:51 | 0:05:57 | |
this joking persona that landed him
in this bother. It is also about | 0:05:57 | 0:06:00 | |
repairing his relationship within
the party and the electorate and | 0:06:00 | 0:06:07 | |
also amongst Unionists. Unionists
might be a step too far. This meant | 0:06:07 | 0:06:13 | |
is from Armagh where Kingsmills is
felt most deeply. Barry McElduff was | 0:06:13 | 0:06:21 | |
reflecting a different view from
people in his political party? I | 0:06:21 | 0:06:26 | |
don't think so. I don't think there
has been a change of heart who were | 0:06:26 | 0:06:33 | |
participants in violence who
glorified that violence. That is why | 0:06:33 | 0:06:35 | |
we have a political process, because
people believed their game was up | 0:06:35 | 0:06:40 | |
with outright terrorism and
violence. Had they actually had a | 0:06:40 | 0:06:44 | |
change within their mindset and
hearts, that actually they have to | 0:06:44 | 0:06:47 | |
do business in a different way. That
is a question that I do think has | 0:06:47 | 0:06:51 | |
yet been over. As they try once more
to revive devolution, the chances of | 0:06:51 | 0:06:59 | |
success are not great anyway. There
is little doubt that the way back to | 0:06:59 | 0:07:03 | |
Stormont is now even more difficult
to see. We were in a position fairly | 0:07:03 | 0:07:07 | |
quickly to calculate the damaged by
Arlene Foster reference to | 0:07:07 | 0:07:12 | |
crocodiles, simply because we had to
election is coming very rapidly | 0:07:12 | 0:07:15 | |
after her remarks. Now, we don't
have an election in the offing now. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:21 | |
So, that damage, that potential
damage, is more difficult to | 0:07:21 | 0:07:27 | |
evaluate at this point in time. We
are in a fast potential here with a | 0:07:27 | 0:07:32 | |
new Secretary of State, the whole
Brexit row is endless. So, this may | 0:07:32 | 0:07:37 | |
not be as damaging as Eileen's
remarks, but it is going to be very | 0:07:37 | 0:07:42 | |
hard for people to forget. -- Arlene
Foster's remarks. | 0:07:42 | 0:07:46 | |
Gareth Gordon reporting. | 0:07:46 | 0:07:47 | |
So where does all of that
leave relations between | 0:07:47 | 0:07:49 | |
the two main parties -
and any prospect of | 0:07:49 | 0:07:51 | |
devolution talks resuming? | 0:07:51 | 0:07:52 | |
I'm joined by the DUP's Edwin Poots
and Sinn Fein's John O'Dowd. | 0:07:52 | 0:08:00 | |
Not a good week for Sinn Fein, I
think everybody agrees with that. | 0:08:00 | 0:08:03 | |
What you need to do to win back the
trust and respect of people who are | 0:08:03 | 0:08:07 | |
fed up to the back teeth of conduct
of local politicians and the failure | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
of local politics? I think first and
foremost this has been an awful week | 0:08:10 | 0:08:16 | |
for the victims of Kingsmills. And
also for victims across our society. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:21 | |
I don't believe Barry's reactions
were setting out to cause hurt, but | 0:08:21 | 0:08:28 | |
he has caused hurt. We as a party
have to recognise that and Barry has | 0:08:28 | 0:08:32 | |
to recognise that. We still have our
political responsibilities and a | 0:08:32 | 0:08:37 | |
responsibility to deal with the
issues that have brought it to the | 0:08:37 | 0:08:39 | |
current political impasse. They have
not gone away. We sent me an don't | 0:08:39 | 0:08:42 | |
need to add to our problems, we have
not problems to deal with without | 0:08:42 | 0:08:48 | |
anyone or any section of our society
adding more problems. But, we have | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
to solve the political problems we
have, and I think that is the best | 0:08:51 | 0:08:55 | |
testament we can make to all of
those people out there who have | 0:08:55 | 0:08:58 | |
suffered because of... That we never
make the same mistakes we have done | 0:08:58 | 0:09:05 | |
in the past. We will talk about
Barry McElduff's video in a moment | 0:09:05 | 0:09:09 | |
of truth. What USA is that to
recover from a difficult week we | 0:09:09 | 0:09:13 | |
need to make politics work. What you
are saying... But this is making | 0:09:13 | 0:09:17 | |
things more difficult, that is the
conundrum. I think this has been | 0:09:17 | 0:09:22 | |
exacerbated because we were in a
difficult political situation in the | 0:09:22 | 0:09:25 | |
first place. I read Ian Paisley
Junior peace in the newspaper on | 0:09:25 | 0:09:30 | |
Saturday morning before this
incident had fully developed. He was | 0:09:30 | 0:09:36 | |
setting up a bleak view on Saturday.
There have been comments around that | 0:09:36 | 0:09:43 | |
they did not support the agreement
in the past and will not supported | 0:09:43 | 0:09:46 | |
in the future. The basis on which we
have political agreement has been | 0:09:46 | 0:09:50 | |
undermined and chipped away at
constantly. We have to resolve it, | 0:09:50 | 0:09:53 | |
we have together ourselves together
and move on to make the political | 0:09:53 | 0:09:56 | |
solutions that we know we can get
to, we have to make them work. Edwin | 0:09:56 | 0:10:02 | |
Poots, Sinn Fein has not had a
monopoly on attracting criticism | 0:10:02 | 0:10:07 | |
this week, what can the DUP do to
win back people's trust? I think | 0:10:07 | 0:10:12 | |
there is an important thing to do
that both parties and that is | 0:10:12 | 0:10:14 | |
engaging to people from other
communities and have people feel | 0:10:14 | 0:10:19 | |
comfortable, wherever they happen to
be from. I recognise that from our | 0:10:19 | 0:10:23 | |
part. We need to be reaching out and
we have been working on that. I | 0:10:23 | 0:10:30 | |
think that Fein is certainly need
Sinn to do that, as well. It was | 0:10:30 | 0:10:36 | |
hugely unfortunate what Barry
McElduff done, we have a | 0:10:36 | 0:10:42 | |
circumstance where 12 men were on a
bus, one man was asked to walk away | 0:10:42 | 0:10:46 | |
because he was Roman Catholic and
the other 11 were pumped full of | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
bullets, ten died. The IRA had a
sectarian campaign as did others, | 0:10:49 | 0:10:56 | |
that this was manifested so clearly
in this incident when the one Roman | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
Catholic was asked to leave the bus
and mass murder happened. To mock | 0:11:00 | 0:11:05 | |
that is something that has caused
huge hurt and devastation, | 0:11:05 | 0:11:11 | |
particularly in south Armagh. A lot
of people were offended by your | 0:11:11 | 0:11:16 | |
colleague, Christopher Stalford's
actions last night. He would be | 0:11:16 | 0:11:19 | |
treated the offensive cartoon, and
his critics said he attempted to | 0:11:19 | 0:11:24 | |
score political points in this.
There is no high ground. Brian | 0:11:24 | 0:11:29 | |
Spencer's cutting was probably one
of the most hard-hitting cuttings of | 0:11:29 | 0:11:32 | |
the troubles. It did spell out very
clearly what Sinn Fein was about. | 0:11:32 | 0:11:37 | |
Christopher was very quick to
respond whenever someone asked in to | 0:11:37 | 0:11:40 | |
respond. And he immediately removed
it. But his accompanying message is | 0:11:40 | 0:11:46 | |
what caused a lot of offence and
what led to people saying that | 0:11:46 | 0:11:50 | |
Christopher Stalford was trying to
make political capital out of it. | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
Sinn Fein, offended by everything
and ashamed by nothing. Retweeting | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
the cutting was not the problem,
putting that message alongside it | 0:11:57 | 0:12:00 | |
was what annoyed so many people. I'm
not sure who that actual message | 0:12:00 | 0:12:05 | |
annoyed. I think some of the victims
were annoyed by just how powerful | 0:12:05 | 0:12:12 | |
the cartoon was and I can understand
anybody who lost a loved one could | 0:12:12 | 0:12:15 | |
feel that it was going to far. That
is who Christopher was responding | 0:12:15 | 0:12:19 | |
to. He was not responding to the
Naomi Long's of the world. She asked | 0:12:19 | 0:12:25 | |
to take you down and said it was
appropriate. John O'Dowd, what did | 0:12:25 | 0:12:29 | |
you make of the Brian Spencer
cartoon and the row that erupted | 0:12:29 | 0:12:33 | |
over the message that was posted
with by Christopher Stalford and | 0:12:33 | 0:12:39 | |
also Doug Beattie got into hot water
on social media last night because | 0:12:39 | 0:12:42 | |
of his engagement in that debate.
Political art is not... I have no | 0:12:42 | 0:12:48 | |
difficulty with the journalist or
the artist producing this piece of | 0:12:48 | 0:12:53 | |
work. The hypocrisy of some within
Unionism, I have to say I have a | 0:12:53 | 0:12:58 | |
difficult with. It may cause offence
but they refuse to take it down, and | 0:12:58 | 0:13:02 | |
when it was taken down down they
accuse others of having a problem | 0:13:02 | 0:13:06 | |
with that. I think there is a lot to
be learnt from this week. It has not | 0:13:06 | 0:13:11 | |
been a good week for politics. As I
said at the start of the programme, | 0:13:11 | 0:13:15 | |
it's me has not been a good week for
the victims of the conflict. I think | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
we all need to take a step back,
ensure whatever we say and do is | 0:13:18 | 0:13:21 | |
measured. And that we learn from the
lessons of this week and that we | 0:13:21 | 0:13:27 | |
endeavour to develop to repeat, it
is our only solution to the | 0:13:27 | 0:13:33 | |
problems. We have to make politics
work and ensure the agreements that | 0:13:33 | 0:13:36 | |
we have signed up to and what we
have difficult fee with, or the | 0:13:36 | 0:13:40 | |
agreements were a compromise either
by Unionism or Republicanism. There | 0:13:40 | 0:13:44 | |
is an uncanny are uncomfortable
nature with all the agreements. It | 0:13:44 | 0:13:48 | |
is the best we have and get and we
have to move on. Can I say there is | 0:13:48 | 0:13:56 | |
a markedly different tone from the
airwaves on Monday, Edwin Poots, you | 0:13:56 | 0:14:06 | |
were and I were involved in a
conversation on the radio and you | 0:14:06 | 0:14:10 | |
were knocking lumps out of each
other at that stage. It is a | 0:14:10 | 0:14:15 | |
different situation that I find
myself into night. Have you both | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
learned lessons over the past few
days? | 0:14:18 | 0:14:24 | |
We have plenty of time to kick lumps
out of each other before the | 0:14:24 | 0:14:29 | |
programme finishes. Then all of
these things, we need to move on. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:33 | |
Politics in Northern Ireland needs
to move on. It is not good for the | 0:14:33 | 0:14:36 | |
Trinity, it has not been good in the
health service as we have noticed. I | 0:14:36 | 0:14:43 | |
waiting times that were too long are
no longer. We have not seen the | 0:14:43 | 0:14:48 | |
reform and education that we need,
and we have not witnessed the | 0:14:48 | 0:14:52 | |
housing programme being developed
that should have been happening. | 0:14:52 | 0:14:55 | |
There are lots of things that should
be happening right now with the | 0:14:55 | 0:14:59 | |
Government, with the ministers in
place, and that can't | 0:14:59 | 0:15:02 | |
Government, with the ministers in
place, and that can't go on. We need | 0:15:02 | 0:15:06 | |
to have Government, and that is our
prevalence all day long. We need to | 0:15:06 | 0:15:12 | |
happiness is included. Hadi respond
to that? There is nothing | 0:15:12 | 0:15:19 | |
particularly new in what Edwin Poots
it saying, but using it in a | 0:15:19 | 0:15:22 | |
slightly different way to which it
has been said on a number of | 0:15:22 | 0:15:25 | |
occasions over the past 12 months.
Up against that, you are going to | 0:15:25 | 0:15:30 | |
tell me that Sinn Fein's equality
and respect agenda remains | 0:15:30 | 0:15:33 | |
unchanged. Does it? Because that
doesn't cut any ice with Unionists | 0:15:33 | 0:15:40 | |
after the Barry McElduff affair? I
think the events of last week make | 0:15:40 | 0:15:48 | |
the equality and respect agenda of
the more important. Because Barry | 0:15:48 | 0:15:52 | |
McElduff shot Sinn Fein in the fit?
Sinn Fein are dead hand, I have no | 0:15:52 | 0:15:57 | |
hard that the less people watching
this programme tonight to our very | 0:15:57 | 0:16:02 | |
angry, and that includes Sinn Fein
supporters. As a justifiable? Yes, I | 0:16:02 | 0:16:08 | |
think it is. I think we have a right
to be angry. I'm convinced, because | 0:16:08 | 0:16:13 | |
I know the character of the man,
that Barry did not set out to cause | 0:16:13 | 0:16:17 | |
heart pain, but the fact of the
matter is that he did, and we have | 0:16:17 | 0:16:20 | |
to deal with that. The issue is
whether he meant to do but he did | 0:16:20 | 0:16:26 | |
and he meant to cause offence, and
you are not good to agree on that. | 0:16:26 | 0:16:30 | |
There is also the additional issue
of how CVC Sinn Fein to get when it | 0:16:30 | 0:16:34 | |
came down to the final analysis, and
you're actually putting and post | 0:16:34 | 0:16:39 | |
something of action against him,
something the punishment, and you | 0:16:39 | 0:16:43 | |
had one of our contributors saying
that the argument is it was not | 0:16:43 | 0:16:48 | |
enough, it was an extremely led a
tangent, that is how she put it, for | 0:16:48 | 0:16:53 | |
something that was described as very
crass, stupid, hopeful and | 0:16:53 | 0:16:56 | |
unforgivable. Three-month suspension
on full pay. Work on a punishment is | 0:16:56 | 0:17:01 | |
that? We do not believe that he set
out to cause heart and unforgivable. | 0:17:01 | 0:17:04 | |
Three-month suspension on full pay.
Work on a punishment is that? We do | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
not believe that he set out to cause
our campaign, so we will not satisfy | 0:17:07 | 0:17:10 | |
those people, and when it comes to
the Kingsmills families, I can | 0:17:10 | 0:17:12 | |
understand why they are angry and
annoyed, and I also understand why | 0:17:12 | 0:17:15 | |
they do not trust watching anything,
because why would they? They had | 0:17:15 | 0:17:19 | |
been deeply hard by the Barbican is,
so why would the trust us? We have | 0:17:19 | 0:17:23 | |
to look at what is being presented
to us. I believe he did not set out | 0:17:23 | 0:17:28 | |
to cause harm, but he did, and I
also read that sanctions were | 0:17:28 | 0:17:31 | |
required against him. He has now
been suspended for three months. His | 0:17:31 | 0:17:35 | |
constituency office today say he is
on full pay. He is representing his | 0:17:35 | 0:17:40 | |
constituents. He is no longer
involved in any Sinn Fein work. | 0:17:40 | 0:17:44 | |
While he be involved in electing
Gerry Adams's successor he is | 0:17:44 | 0:17:51 | |
suspended. He will have no vote at
local level, national level or any | 0:17:51 | 0:17:57 | |
other level. He will have no say in
terms of internal discussions I've | 0:17:57 | 0:18:06 | |
owned... Can I be absolutely clear,
what is your message to Barry | 0:18:06 | 0:18:10 | |
McElduff if he is watching this
programme tonight? It is actions any | 0:18:10 | 0:18:17 | |
schism and indefensible. We shall I
know says ill judged, indefensible, | 0:18:17 | 0:18:20 | |
an error of judgment which cause
heart on paint and something that | 0:18:20 | 0:18:25 | |
fell short of the standard expected
of Sinn Fein. What is your message? | 0:18:25 | 0:18:30 | |
I endorse those messages, and
speaking to other party colleagues, | 0:18:30 | 0:18:36 | |
we endorse those messages, and we
believe that Barry has listened to | 0:18:36 | 0:18:42 | |
this message and realise... Has a
lead you down? I am not concerned | 0:18:42 | 0:18:47 | |
about me. Had he let Sinn Fein down?
The most important people he has let | 0:18:47 | 0:18:51 | |
down if the families of the
Kingsmills attack. He has let down | 0:18:51 | 0:18:55 | |
other victims across satiety, and he
has let itself down. That is where | 0:18:55 | 0:19:02 | |
the heart has been caused. Should he
stop clowning around, Ron? It would | 0:19:02 | 0:19:09 | |
not be my still, I have to say, and
social media. I think politicians | 0:19:09 | 0:19:16 | |
have a responsibility, and I think
it is best to leave the comedy to | 0:19:16 | 0:19:20 | |
the comedians at times, and allow
the representatives to get on with | 0:19:20 | 0:19:24 | |
it. Sinn Fein suspended another
politician first six months because | 0:19:24 | 0:19:29 | |
he had his an abortion may disagree
with. It seems a somewhat different | 0:19:29 | 0:19:36 | |
attitude. Sinn Fein's political
opponents were never going to be | 0:19:36 | 0:19:42 | |
satisfied... LED never a Sinn Fein
has been punished before, and that | 0:19:42 | 0:19:48 | |
was his punishment. But you can
tell, catchy, sitting here tonight, | 0:19:48 | 0:19:56 | |
that a John O'Dowd is annoyed by
what Barry McElduff did. You can | 0:19:56 | 0:20:00 | |
tell he is disappointed and
annotated by what Mr McElduff dead. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:06 | |
You can see that, can't you? I can
see that, but we need to dig a | 0:20:06 | 0:20:11 | |
little further. First of all, Sinn
Fein have never condemned the | 0:20:11 | 0:20:16 | |
Kingsmill massacre. We have. I will
put it on the record here tonight. I | 0:20:16 | 0:20:20 | |
remember Kingsmills very well. I had
to my cousins shot dead the night | 0:20:20 | 0:20:26 | |
before, and I had another uncle left
for dead. What happened at | 0:20:26 | 0:20:30 | |
Kingsmills was wrong, it was
sectarian, and regardless of who | 0:20:30 | 0:20:35 | |
carried it out, whether it was the
IRA are others are people acting | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
from the IRA, it was long and have
condemned it in the past, and I had | 0:20:38 | 0:20:42 | |
my condemnation to a tonight. It is
wrong when it happened, it is long | 0:20:42 | 0:20:46 | |
today. Do you accept that it was a
purely sectarian murder, about ten | 0:20:46 | 0:20:52 | |
men were killed because they were
Protestant? Yes. It is shameful what | 0:20:52 | 0:20:59 | |
happened on the roadside insert a
mat that day. Absolutely shameful. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:03 | |
As a Republican, I am ashamed at
that. Those who carried it out | 0:21:03 | 0:21:08 | |
should be ashamed. I am one of many
now Republican leaders who has said | 0:21:08 | 0:21:12 | |
what happened at Kingsmills was
wrong. Those who carried it out does | 0:21:12 | 0:21:18 | |
not in anyway advance the cause of
Irish unity, and we have caused... | 0:21:18 | 0:21:25 | |
That is why I say I am not surprised
by the Kingsmills families are so | 0:21:25 | 0:21:29 | |
annoyed, and will not believe what
Sinn Fein has said, because | 0:21:29 | 0:21:33 | |
Republicans have harmed them. But
there is a responsibility for | 0:21:33 | 0:21:37 | |
Unionist politicians and the public
and politicians to move the society | 0:21:37 | 0:21:41 | |
forward. That is our responsibility.
Can I take that one step forward | 0:21:41 | 0:21:44 | |
question what you have said in clear
terms that you are ashamed of what | 0:21:44 | 0:21:47 | |
happens, then it was completely
wrong and unforgivable and any | 0:21:47 | 0:21:50 | |
schism. We do lead to see the people
responsible for that brought to | 0:21:50 | 0:21:53 | |
justice? If the families of
Kingsmill have a right to access | 0:21:53 | 0:21:58 | |
justice. Just as every other
families who have lost loved ones. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:02 | |
There are many, many families out
there who has not seen the | 0:22:02 | 0:22:06 | |
perpetrators who have killed their
loved ones before the courts. All | 0:22:06 | 0:22:09 | |
those families deserve access to
justice, and the Kingsmill families | 0:22:09 | 0:22:13 | |
deserve access to justice. Women
recruits had the murder weapon. Sinn | 0:22:13 | 0:22:25 | |
Fein think he is a fitting person to
name a playpark after that children | 0:22:25 | 0:22:29 | |
play in. They say this is a man of
honour, this is and we should | 0:22:29 | 0:22:33 | |
respect, but he had the weapon that
was involved at the Kingsmill | 0:22:33 | 0:22:37 | |
massacre. That does not mean he was
involved. I don't want to rehash | 0:22:37 | 0:22:41 | |
that argument, we have added many
tens on the airwaves about the | 0:22:41 | 0:22:44 | |
rights and wrongs of it naming a
pack after the likes of this man. I | 0:22:44 | 0:22:56 | |
understand... It is wrong. I do want
you to adjust Pacific or the | 0:22:56 | 0:23:05 | |
comments which are, to be like of
which I have never had before | 0:23:05 | 0:23:09 | |
certainly from a Sinn Fein
representative about Kingsmills. How | 0:23:09 | 0:23:12 | |
do you respond to what strikes me as
a very personal reaction to | 0:23:12 | 0:23:17 | |
Kingsmills after 42 years from John
O'Dowd? I work on what he said. -- I | 0:23:17 | 0:23:25 | |
welcome what he said, and I would
say what having to has happened to | 0:23:25 | 0:23:30 | |
has family was wrong as well, that
should never have happened. We have | 0:23:30 | 0:23:33 | |
a history of the baby killed on both
sides. It has not achieved anything | 0:23:33 | 0:23:42 | |
after all these years. As living a
political vacuum is something others | 0:23:42 | 0:23:49 | |
will look to fill, and it gives is
all the more impetus to pitch every | 0:23:49 | 0:23:53 | |
move things forward, and there are
things we do not like about the DUP, | 0:23:53 | 0:23:59 | |
about Sinn Fein, but we have what
with them for ten years. This last | 0:23:59 | 0:24:04 | |
year has been unproductive and
unfulfilling as a politician, | 0:24:04 | 0:24:08 | |
because things are not happening and
you're not getting things done the | 0:24:08 | 0:24:11 | |
way you should. I really want to see
us moving forward and to an | 0:24:11 | 0:24:14 | |
assembly, and to an executive, and
we need to cut the red lines and get | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
down to business. So disenchanted
argue with the political situation | 0:24:17 | 0:24:22 | |
that you told my colleague yesterday
that you are looking for another | 0:24:22 | 0:24:27 | |
job. I have considered what my
options are outside of politics. You | 0:24:27 | 0:24:30 | |
have said you are actively pursuing
other work. I am looking at what the | 0:24:30 | 0:24:35 | |
future might hold should be be
unsuccessful in an outcome. Which | 0:24:35 | 0:24:42 | |
way do you play that? Are you on the
verge of throwing the towel in and | 0:24:42 | 0:24:45 | |
walking away, Paula Bradley good to
be W to get storm at up and running | 0:24:45 | 0:24:50 | |
again? And that might involve some
degree of compromise on your part. | 0:24:50 | 0:24:55 | |
Are you prepared to do that? I think
if you are looking at a precipice, | 0:24:55 | 0:25:04 | |
you should avoid it, and it is a
precipice. There are two ways of me | 0:25:04 | 0:25:07 | |
personally avoiding it, and one way
as we find a solution and I continue | 0:25:07 | 0:25:12 | |
in politics, or if we do not find
the solution, I quickly find | 0:25:12 | 0:25:16 | |
something else to do and move on in
life, and I want to ensure that I | 0:25:16 | 0:25:21 | |
have both options fulfilled. But
believe me, we are going to do our | 0:25:21 | 0:25:25 | |
best to ensure that we can move
Northern Ireland forward, and that | 0:25:25 | 0:25:29 | |
involves, whether I like it or not,
bother a lot of our supporters liked | 0:25:29 | 0:25:33 | |
it or not, doing some sort of
business with Sinn Fein, and whether | 0:25:33 | 0:25:39 | |
Sinn Fein supporters like it or not,
and will involve doing some sort of | 0:25:39 | 0:25:43 | |
business with the DUP, because we
are too large to be ignored in this. | 0:25:43 | 0:25:48 | |
It seems to me there is a different
mood in this conversation tonight. | 0:25:48 | 0:25:51 | |
It is obvious from talking to the
two of you before the programme and | 0:25:51 | 0:25:54 | |
during, that you get on, and that
effort was up to the two of you | 0:25:54 | 0:25:58 | |
would like to see things sorted out
in a positive way. The question is, | 0:25:58 | 0:26:03 | |
what about the red lines that Fein
has? You'd thought all be sitting in | 0:26:03 | 0:26:07 | |
that seat in November on this
programme that you cannot compromise | 0:26:07 | 0:26:12 | |
on a compromise. Positions on
equality and respect, and we will | 0:26:12 | 0:26:17 | |
not be shifting. Things like Bill of
Rights, same-sex marriage, an Irish | 0:26:17 | 0:26:22 | |
language act. You prepared to
discuss some kind of bigger room | 0:26:22 | 0:26:26 | |
that allows you to get back into the
executive with Edwin Poots and | 0:26:26 | 0:26:30 | |
actually move forward and some of
the issues that are not being sorted | 0:26:30 | 0:26:33 | |
out at the moment? I do listen to
develop common, things are difficult | 0:26:33 | 0:26:41 | |
between the DUP and Sinn Fein. It is
appropriate to be civil to each | 0:26:41 | 0:26:46 | |
other in any setting, and we want to
set an example for society and vice | 0:26:46 | 0:26:52 | |
versa. But the reality as it has
been constant that through this | 0:26:52 | 0:26:57 | |
interview and other interviews, we
have the politics of forward based | 0:26:57 | 0:27:02 | |
on agreement, and those agreements
have to be permitted. Those | 0:27:02 | 0:27:05 | |
compromises which are public and
spade and Unionist have made which | 0:27:05 | 0:27:08 | |
are but us to this point have to be
built upon. Let's implement... | 0:27:08 | 0:27:19 | |
Equality and respect and integrity
applies as much to us as it does to | 0:27:19 | 0:27:22 | |
unionism, so we need to implement
it. Any word, argue confident a deal | 0:27:22 | 0:27:26 | |
can be done to restore devolution? I
am realistic about the future. I | 0:27:26 | 0:27:32 | |
think we have huge problems, but I
think they can be overcome. I | 0:27:32 | 0:27:35 | |
believe a deal could have been done
last year, that the distance was not | 0:27:35 | 0:27:40 | |
that far at some point. And if that
is a mind to do it, a deal can be | 0:27:40 | 0:27:45 | |
done this year. It's good to be very
hard to sell given the events of the | 0:27:45 | 0:27:49 | |
last year for both sides. Speaking
for Mike community, and the | 0:27:49 | 0:27:55 | |
committee I represent, I feel very
much. | 0:27:55 | 0:27:59 | |
Thank you, both. | 0:27:59 | 0:28:02 | |
Now as we mentioned,
we've a new Secretary of State | 0:28:02 | 0:28:10 | |
in residence at Hillsborough Castle. | 0:28:10 | 0:28:11 | |
Karen Bradley has taken over
from James Brokenshire | 0:28:11 | 0:28:13 | |
who resigned suddenly on health
grounds on Monday. | 0:28:13 | 0:28:15 | |
She's an accountant by profession
and a former Culture Secretary, | 0:28:15 | 0:28:17 | |
but whether or not she'll figure out
how to restore devolution | 0:28:17 | 0:28:20 | |
is another matter. | 0:28:20 | 0:28:21 | |
And as she immerses herself
in all things Northern Ireland, | 0:28:21 | 0:28:23 | |
how long will it take for her to get
a clear vision of politics here? | 0:28:23 | 0:28:32 | |
Hello, hello. Welcome. Tell me what
you are doing? I am studying. I have | 0:28:41 | 0:28:52 | |
a presentation in about ten minutes.
Are we getting in the way!? I always | 0:28:52 | 0:28:58 | |
thinks politics is life, everything
you do in life, politics comes into | 0:28:58 | 0:29:04 | |
it somewhere. Goodness me, I can
change the law! That was a | 0:29:04 | 0:29:10 | |
monumental thing in my life and the
moment I thought I like this. I | 0:29:10 | 0:29:13 | |
decided I was going to do this silly
game of politics and here I am now. | 0:29:13 | 0:29:21 | |
I know there are challenges, but I
am determined that we will find a | 0:29:26 | 0:29:30 | |
way through those challenges. We
need to did deliver devolved | 0:29:30 | 0:29:35 | |
Government to Northern Ireland as
soon as possible and that is what I | 0:29:35 | 0:29:38 | |
am determined to do. | 0:29:38 | 0:29:39 | |
Someone who knows Karen Bradley
is the journalist and broadcaster | 0:29:39 | 0:29:41 | |
Anne McElvoy, who joins me
now from London. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:43 | |
Anne McElvoy, thank you. | 0:29:43 | 0:29:47 | |
Do you think Theresa May made a good
choice? I think she made the choice | 0:29:47 | 0:29:58 | |
intended to make, that Karen Bradley
is the minister closest to Theresa | 0:29:58 | 0:30:02 | |
May personally. I think this is a
sign that the Prime Minister is very | 0:30:02 | 0:30:06 | |
serious about the situation, and
particularly wanted to have someone | 0:30:06 | 0:30:09 | |
on the ground who she can have
constant communication with. The two | 0:30:09 | 0:30:13 | |
women who I think are in touch, not
that they sit there and pour out | 0:30:13 | 0:30:17 | |
their hearts to each other, but
there relationship has been a good | 0:30:17 | 0:30:21 | |
and solid won over many years. She
has someone in Karen Bradley summer | 0:30:21 | 0:30:26 | |
she trusts to deliver. They are
still quite close? Very close. To | 0:30:26 | 0:30:30 | |
the extent that Karen Bradley has
found it difficult in London to have | 0:30:30 | 0:30:34 | |
a profile of her own. She has, going
back to the David Cameron | 0:30:34 | 0:30:42 | |
Government, on Theresa May's side.
She signalled very early that she | 0:30:42 | 0:30:45 | |
would support her to the leadership.
She does not forget that after the | 0:30:45 | 0:30:48 | |
torrid time she's been through,
including Brexit, and the sense that | 0:30:48 | 0:30:55 | |
perhaps not everyone in her Cabinet
is her biggest fan. She is a | 0:30:55 | 0:31:00 | |
different, and I'm sure this is felt
on the ground in Northern Ireland, a | 0:31:00 | 0:31:04 | |
different character to James
Brokenshire. She is a different | 0:31:04 | 0:31:08 | |
kettle of fish as a politician.
People have noticed that she has a | 0:31:08 | 0:31:14 | |
different approach to James
Brokenshire, and he has been | 0:31:14 | 0:31:16 | |
criticised by many people from maybe
being a little bit hands off, | 0:31:16 | 0:31:21 | |
quieter than perhaps some people
would have liked, will she be | 0:31:21 | 0:31:24 | |
different? I think she has a
different personality. She's not | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
particular the flashy, but she is
particularly warm. I think she does | 0:31:27 | 0:31:31 | |
well when she is out and about
talking to people in communities. I | 0:31:31 | 0:31:35 | |
think she is hidden away, culture,
media and sport, other than an epic | 0:31:35 | 0:31:42 | |
year is not the place you go to
quite public or share woes and | 0:31:42 | 0:31:46 | |
worries. I think she will prove a
good listener. What we need to know | 0:31:46 | 0:31:51 | |
is if she can step out of that
technocratic role that she has had | 0:31:51 | 0:31:55 | |
all of her career, junior minister
at the Home Office, accountant | 0:31:55 | 0:31:59 | |
before that. Then
Department-of-Culture-mac. Often | 0:31:59 | 0:32:02 | |
grinding through bits of media
legislation very different to come | 0:32:02 | 0:32:10 | |
into the situation that you are
talking about tonight, how reactive | 0:32:10 | 0:32:13 | |
and difficult that is and how far
away it seems to be able to restore | 0:32:13 | 0:32:18 | |
the best of that Good Friday
Agreement. Get the executive working | 0:32:18 | 0:32:21 | |
again on the grounds. She will not
come into thinking she can wave a | 0:32:21 | 0:32:25 | |
magic wand, but I have no doubt that
she has been putting together more | 0:32:25 | 0:32:29 | |
of a push once it was clear that
James Brokenshire would be going for | 0:32:29 | 0:32:32 | |
health reasons, it must be said. But
either way, I think likely at some | 0:32:32 | 0:32:37 | |
point there would be change. Finally
and briefly, it is a confiscated | 0:32:37 | 0:32:43 | |
political landscape, you have
considered that yourself. I think | 0:32:43 | 0:32:47 | |
the previous interviewee
demonstrated that for anybody who | 0:32:47 | 0:32:48 | |
did not realise it already. She has
to to get to grips to that, maintain | 0:32:48 | 0:32:53 | |
a relationship of Dublin, leading to
the specifics of a complex Brexit, | 0:32:53 | 0:32:57 | |
does she have the skill to do all of
that and be the ringmaster that is | 0:32:57 | 0:33:02 | |
needed at the moment? I will be
surprised that in three months' time | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
people say she has a golden touch
and every thing is back to the place | 0:33:05 | 0:33:09 | |
it should be. But what she does have
is that close reading skills, she is | 0:33:09 | 0:33:13 | |
not just any old accountant, she was
a very senior tax adviser at a big | 0:33:13 | 0:33:19 | |
accountancy company. She went from a
pretty ordinary background to | 0:33:19 | 0:33:23 | |
Imperial College. She is a very good
mathematician, or the problem on the | 0:33:23 | 0:33:29 | |
ground is political arithmetic
rather than figures on a page. But I | 0:33:29 | 0:33:33 | |
don't think she's scared of the
detail that some people might find | 0:33:33 | 0:33:36 | |
forbidding. Will she find the
personality to go along with this | 0:33:36 | 0:33:40 | |
difficult situation and make the
best of it? We will find out in due | 0:33:40 | 0:33:44 | |
course. Thank you for joining us. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:45 | |
Now, new year and a new pairing
in Commentators' Corner - | 0:33:45 | 0:33:48 | |
though it's by no means their first
appearance on the programme. | 0:33:48 | 0:33:51 | |
Welcome to Allison Morris
and Sam McBride. | 0:33:51 | 0:33:56 | |
Thank you for joining us. We had an
interesting conversation at the top | 0:33:56 | 0:34:00 | |
of the programme, preventing anybody
expected it to go quite the way it | 0:34:00 | 0:34:03 | |
went. Where did you make of what was
said and the body language between | 0:34:03 | 0:34:07 | |
the representatives of Sinn Fein and
DUP tonight? Tour was startling and | 0:34:07 | 0:34:12 | |
unexpected. I hope it is healing. I
cannot remember feeling as depressed | 0:34:12 | 0:34:20 | |
and disheartened as I had in this
last week. The events this last week | 0:34:20 | 0:34:24 | |
have been so damaging to the victims
the troubles, that just those from | 0:34:24 | 0:34:28 | |
Kingsmills, but also as John O'Dowd
pointed out it is another | 0:34:28 | 0:34:33 | |
anniversary. These people have been
kicked around like a political | 0:34:33 | 0:34:36 | |
football. The politicians would be
better helping them with their | 0:34:36 | 0:34:42 | |
inquest and fight to justice rather
than they would be to put each | 0:34:42 | 0:34:45 | |
other's eyes out, it was said. What
you saw from John O'Dowd | 0:34:45 | 0:34:48 | |
specifically was that I think Sinn
Fein have been really damaged and | 0:34:48 | 0:34:51 | |
hurt by what has happened. Not
because there wasn't Unionist | 0:34:51 | 0:34:58 | |
outrage at Barry McElduff comments,
that outrage from Republicans and | 0:34:58 | 0:35:00 | |
nationalists as well. He could see
that reflected in him it was a very | 0:35:00 | 0:35:04 | |
sombre interview and I heard those
words will go some way to healing | 0:35:04 | 0:35:06 | |
the damage of the last week? It was
unexpectedly sober. I think we all | 0:35:06 | 0:35:12 | |
expected to see these two people
locking horns tonight and escalating | 0:35:12 | 0:35:15 | |
what has been a growing sense of
people heading to the changes over | 0:35:15 | 0:35:20 | |
the last year and the last week in
particular. I think that was a | 0:35:20 | 0:35:23 | |
deliberate starts tonight on both
the DUP and Sinn Fein to try and | 0:35:23 | 0:35:29 | |
de-escalated this. I think that does
not in any way mean they are moving | 0:35:29 | 0:35:33 | |
towards a deal, I think that is so
far off that it is much more | 0:35:33 | 0:35:36 | |
serious. It is about trying to get
this to a stage where it is beyond | 0:35:36 | 0:35:41 | |
politics and out in the community,
people really this really angry at | 0:35:41 | 0:35:45 | |
each other. I think there was a
sense tonight of a responsibility | 0:35:45 | 0:35:52 | |
from politicians, but this didn't
start with politicians larking | 0:35:52 | 0:35:55 | |
around. I think every body has a
sense that that got out of hand at | 0:35:55 | 0:35:59 | |
the very least. It doesn't
necessarily mean we're inching to | 0:35:59 | 0:36:04 | |
the restoration of devolution, it is
not necessarily good news for Karen | 0:36:04 | 0:36:08 | |
Bradley who comes into a new role at
a very difficult time. An extremely | 0:36:08 | 0:36:12 | |
difficult time. I think that telling
comment was from Edwin Poots at the | 0:36:12 | 0:36:16 | |
very end when he said, no matter
what happens from now this will be a | 0:36:16 | 0:36:19 | |
very difficult sale in my community.
I don't think unionists are doing a | 0:36:19 | 0:36:24 | |
deal at this time. We have had
polarising elections. These events | 0:36:24 | 0:36:29 | |
have shown just how far, and there
was a very real danger of that | 0:36:29 | 0:36:33 | |
spilling out and becoming nasty on
the streets. I think it was good | 0:36:33 | 0:36:36 | |
that both politicians took time to
try and diffuser. Karen Bradley, I | 0:36:36 | 0:36:40 | |
am sure she arrived on a very nasty
and foggy day, and that probably set | 0:36:40 | 0:36:44 | |
the mood for the rest of their
tenure, I would imagine. If we do | 0:36:44 | 0:36:48 | |
not adapt to devolution in the
short-term, who knows what happens | 0:36:48 | 0:36:52 | |
in the long term. What does happen
in the short-term, direct rule | 0:36:52 | 0:36:57 | |
sooner rather than later? Depends
who you speak to. It is clear that | 0:36:57 | 0:37:00 | |
that is what the DUP are itching for
at point. I understand why the | 0:37:00 | 0:37:06 | |
Republicans think they are not
serious, but the DUP at serious at | 0:37:06 | 0:37:10 | |
struggling to sell it to their
supporters. Interesting stuff, thank | 0:37:10 | 0:37:14 | |
you. Welcome to the team. | 0:37:14 | 0:37:17 | |
That's it from The View
for this week. | 0:37:17 | 0:37:19 | |
Join me for Sunday Politics
at 11.35am here on BBC One. | 0:37:19 | 0:37:21 | |
Meantime, we all know that politics
can be a tough business. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:24 | |
But the Prime Minister of Thailand
came up with a novel way of dealing | 0:37:24 | 0:37:27 | |
with media enquiries this week. | 0:37:27 | 0:37:28 | |
Maybe it'll catch on here, too?! | 0:37:28 | 0:37:30 | |
Thoughts welcome,
as ever, @bbctheview. | 0:37:30 | 0:37:31 | |
Good night. | 0:37:31 | 0:37:36 | |
MUSIC PLAYS | 0:37:42 | 0:37:52 |