Browse content similar to 30/05/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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longer a threat - Marian Price is released from custody after two | 0:00:23 | 0:00:27 | |
years. Supporters welcome the move, but the DUP demands an explanation | 0:00:27 | 0:00:32 | |
from the Parole Commissioners. We'll hear from two senior figures in | 0:00:32 | 0:00:42 | |
0:00:42 | 0:00:43 | ||
Special Advisers' Bill, are serious fractures appearing in the SDLP? | 0:00:43 | 0:00:49 | |
recent weeks the game, we have the spectacle of the SDLP beginning to | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
eat itself. And with their thoughts on the | 0:00:52 | 0:00:55 | |
political headlines this week and next, the professors are back in the | 0:00:55 | 0:00:57 | |
commentary box. And you can, of course, follow the programme on | 0:00:57 | 0:01:07 | |
0:01:07 | 0:01:07 | ||
threat by the Secretary of State and placed in custody with her licence | 0:01:07 | 0:01:13 | |
revoked, Marian Price is tonight at home with her family. She still | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
faces charges relating to the murder of two soldiers at Massereene | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
Barracks and a dissident Republican rally in Londonderry's city | 0:01:18 | 0:01:24 | |
cemetery. The decision to free her rested with the Parole Commissioners | 0:01:24 | 0:01:29 | |
- an independent body which does not comment on or explain its actions. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:32 | |
With me now is the chairman of the Justice Committee, the DUP's Paul | 0:01:32 | 0:01:35 | |
Givan, and from our Foyle studio, the committee's deputy chair, Sinn | 0:01:35 | 0:01:44 | |
Fein's Raymond McCartney. Thank you both very much indeed for joining us | 0:01:44 | 0:01:47 | |
on the programme. Paul Givan, you've already made clear today your | 0:01:47 | 0:01:50 | |
unhappiness at release of Marian Price. Why are you not content with | 0:01:50 | 0:01:57 | |
the decision? The Parole Comissioners have done a U-turn. Two | 0:01:57 | 0:02:00 | |
years ago, they recommended that her licence should we revoked, and the | 0:02:00 | 0:02:04 | |
Secretary of State had to then act in the public interest, and she was | 0:02:04 | 0:02:10 | |
sent back to prison. We now have this decision taken by the Parole | 0:02:10 | 0:02:13 | |
Comissioners to reinstate her licence, and she is now a free | 0:02:13 | 0:02:17 | |
woman, and I think the public are quite rightly asking what has | 0:02:17 | 0:02:23 | |
changed from two years ago that now merits her to be a free woman? What | 0:02:23 | 0:02:27 | |
information has been provided to justify that? Both from the | 0:02:27 | 0:02:31 | |
Department of Justice and from the Northern Ireland Office, and in the | 0:02:31 | 0:02:38 | |
killer from politicians who have called and campaigned for her | 0:02:38 | 0:02:42 | |
release and made representation to the Parole Comissioners, and they | 0:02:42 | 0:02:47 | |
need to give an explanation why they have done so. But this is an | 0:02:48 | 0:02:50 | |
independent organisation which has assessed all of the evidence and | 0:02:50 | 0:02:54 | |
come to the conclusion that she no longer faces a danger to society and | 0:02:54 | 0:02:59 | |
it is safe for her to be released. We accept it is an independent body. | 0:02:59 | 0:03:03 | |
The fact that it doesn't come out and speak to the public to explain | 0:03:03 | 0:03:09 | |
his decisions leaves people to make assumptions that, based upon | 0:03:09 | 0:03:13 | |
representation that was made at the highest levels of Sinn Fein and | 0:03:13 | 0:03:17 | |
within the SDLP, there has been political influence brought to bear | 0:03:17 | 0:03:21 | |
on the decision taken by the Parole Comissioners. What would be wrong | 0:03:21 | 0:03:30 | |
with that? I think that would be entirely inappropriate. She is now | 0:03:30 | 0:03:35 | |
free woman, and the public need to know why. People released on licence | 0:03:35 | 0:03:39 | |
were released with conditions attached to them. We need to be | 0:03:39 | 0:03:43 | |
convicted by a court and found guilty to be sent to prison, as | 0:03:43 | 0:03:48 | |
law-abiding people. People on the licence have already been convicted, | 0:03:48 | 0:03:56 | |
and if they break the conditions, then they have to go back to prison. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:59 | |
It could be dangerous if other prisoners think that they won't be | 0:03:59 | 0:04:04 | |
sent back to prison. We don't know all of the details, because the | 0:04:04 | 0:04:09 | |
Parole Comissioners have not released a statement, but it is | 0:04:09 | 0:04:14 | |
likely that today's decision will come with conditions attached. We | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
again have to accept at face value that whatever those conditions are, | 0:04:17 | 0:04:22 | |
they would safeguard society at large. Do you accept that? We don't | 0:04:22 | 0:04:31 | |
know what the conditions are, and that is why we are questioning | 0:04:31 | 0:04:34 | |
this. I hope that we could interrogate them so that they can | 0:04:34 | 0:04:37 | |
provide justification for the decisions that they take and the | 0:04:37 | 0:04:41 | |
processes that they follow. And what do you think the chances are of the | 0:04:41 | 0:04:49 | |
Parole Comissioners coming to a committee? The public need to be | 0:04:49 | 0:04:53 | |
reassured that they are doing their job properly. Remaining silent will | 0:04:53 | 0:04:59 | |
leave many questions unanswered, and that is not good for the system. | 0:04:59 | 0:05:05 | |
Raymond McCartney, the correct decision today? Sinn Fein welcomed | 0:05:05 | 0:05:10 | |
the release of Marian Price, and we have a long campaigned that we don't | 0:05:10 | 0:05:17 | |
feel that any person should lose their liberty and the basis on which | 0:05:17 | 0:05:22 | |
they lose their liberty is not open to challenge. And it has become very | 0:05:22 | 0:05:26 | |
obvious since Marian Price has been in prison that her physical and | 0:05:26 | 0:05:34 | |
mental health has deteriorated to a point that she should be released. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:39 | |
We understand that Marian Price is now at home with her family. She is | 0:05:39 | 0:05:48 | |
not in hospital. I don't think anybody is under any doubt that her | 0:05:48 | 0:05:53 | |
physical health have deteriorated over the years. What do you make of | 0:05:53 | 0:05:59 | |
Paul Givan's charge that political pressure brought to bear would be | 0:05:59 | 0:06:03 | |
entirely inappropriate in these circumstances. Your party was | 0:06:03 | 0:06:05 | |
involved in lobbying the commissioners, as I understand it. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:09 | |
Why was that right in lobbying the commissioners, as I understand it. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:19 | |
0:06:19 | 0:06:19 | ||
Why was that writing your view? We have lobbied at every level. | 0:06:19 | 0:06:29 | |
Particularly needing to understand why somebody is in prison. Paul | 0:06:29 | 0:06:32 | |
Givan says that that is an invitation to others not to abide by | 0:06:32 | 0:06:36 | |
the conditions of their licence. When you accept the principle that | 0:06:36 | 0:06:39 | |
somebody when they have served their sentence should be released and that | 0:06:39 | 0:06:43 | |
is the end of it, that is the basis on which they have challenged a | 0:06:43 | 0:06:48 | |
number of people whose licences of been revoked over the years. This | 0:06:48 | 0:06:50 | |
case was complicated by the fact that Marian Price has contended that | 0:06:50 | 0:06:59 | |
she was pardoned. No evidence could be found to the contrary. I think it | 0:06:59 | 0:07:03 | |
has to be made and has been made very clear that since her | 0:07:03 | 0:07:05 | |
imprisonment, her mental and physical well-being has | 0:07:05 | 0:07:12 | |
deteriorated, so I think that the Parole Comissioners came to the | 0:07:12 | 0:07:17 | |
correct decision today based on the circumstances. What about this | 0:07:17 | 0:07:22 | |
invitation from the committee of which you are the deputy chair to | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
invite the Parole Comissioners to come up to the Justice committee and | 0:07:25 | 0:07:35 | |
0:07:35 | 0:07:42 | ||
to explain the rationale that they came to? Would you welcome that? | 0:07:42 | 0:07:47 | |
are not happy that you have a group of people who can listen to evidence | 0:07:47 | 0:07:54 | |
and not be challenged, that they can listen to evidence of a person who | 0:07:54 | 0:07:58 | |
has been accused of doing something wrong, they can't challenge it. | 0:07:58 | 0:08:04 | |
there is an advocate bear who act on behalf of the person in question, so | 0:08:04 | 0:08:09 | |
the person is not unrepresented. With the greatest respect, he can't | 0:08:09 | 0:08:13 | |
come out and report to the person, he can't be instructed by the | 0:08:13 | 0:08:18 | |
person, and the person can't be briefed. So in many ways, that whole | 0:08:18 | 0:08:22 | |
system is open to question. We over the years have always said that what | 0:08:22 | 0:08:27 | |
we have to do is instil confidence in the justice system. The justice | 0:08:27 | 0:08:32 | |
system in the past failed us all, and this type of quasi-judicial | 0:08:32 | 0:08:42 | |
0:08:42 | 0:08:42 | ||
process doesn't help. Do you think that the Parole Comissioners should | 0:08:42 | 0:08:46 | |
come to Stormont to explain themselves? Yes, I do. The public | 0:08:46 | 0:08:51 | |
should be able to see politicians from whatever viewpoint being able | 0:08:51 | 0:08:57 | |
to ask questions of ultimately civil servants who are paid by the | 0:08:57 | 0:09:04 | |
taxpayers. I want to pick up on one of Raymond's points - such as the | 0:09:04 | 0:09:09 | |
opposition to a licence system. If somebody receives a life sentence, | 0:09:09 | 0:09:15 | |
that is for life, and a period of that will be in custody, and then | 0:09:15 | 0:09:19 | |
they will be under certain conditions, and we are talking about | 0:09:19 | 0:09:23 | |
that actual principle, we are talking about changing the tools | 0:09:23 | 0:09:28 | |
that are available to society to deal with people who breaks the law. | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
Raymond McCartney's point is that the licence can be revoked without | 0:09:31 | 0:09:35 | |
any further recourse to the judicial system. The Secretary of State two | 0:09:35 | 0:09:39 | |
years ago, Owen Paterson, took the decision to put Marian Price back in | 0:09:39 | 0:09:43 | |
jail. There wasn't a judicial process by which she could argue her | 0:09:44 | 0:09:49 | |
case or ask for an explanation. judicial process was on the 70s in | 0:09:49 | 0:09:53 | |
this particular case, and she was found guilty. And she served her | 0:09:53 | 0:09:59 | |
time and was released. On licence, with conditions. So the Parole | 0:09:59 | 0:10:04 | |
Comissioners have to determine if those conditions have been released. | 0:10:04 | 0:10:08 | |
She doesn't need a judge to find her innocent or guilty. You have already | 0:10:08 | 0:10:12 | |
been broken the law, and been given a second opportunity to live in | 0:10:12 | 0:10:16 | |
society, but under particular conditions. So this would be a | 0:10:16 | 0:10:20 | |
fundamental change to how we deal with people that are ultimately | 0:10:20 | 0:10:24 | |
sentence for very serious crimes. You are trying to have your cake and | 0:10:24 | 0:10:28 | |
eat it, because you welcome the fact that the Parole Comissioners took | 0:10:28 | 0:10:32 | |
the decision two years ago to row broke her licence, but today you say | 0:10:33 | 0:10:35 | |
that they shouldn't have changed their minds 24 months later and said | 0:10:35 | 0:10:40 | |
that she should be released again. You can't have it both ways. They | 0:10:40 | 0:10:44 | |
shouldn't have changed their mind without giving any aspiration at all | 0:10:45 | 0:10:48 | |
apart from the present circumstances have changed. And that takes me to | 0:10:48 | 0:10:52 | |
the second point, that if we are going to argue that somebody's | 0:10:52 | 0:10:55 | |
medical condition should determine whether or not they are ever going | 0:10:55 | 0:10:58 | |
to be in custody, that sends a serious and dangerous message to | 0:10:58 | 0:11:02 | |
prisoners that if you get ill you will be released. Raymond | 0:11:02 | 0:11:07 | |
McCartney, what should happen to the two outstanding charges which she is | 0:11:07 | 0:11:11 | |
still facing? Should she be required to phase due process at this stage, | 0:11:11 | 0:11:16 | |
as far as they are concerned? Without trying to prejudice the | 0:11:16 | 0:11:19 | |
outcome of those investigations, we have long argued that if there is | 0:11:19 | 0:11:23 | |
evidence than it should be presented in open court. She will have the | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
opportunity to rebuff that and brief legal representatives in a | 0:11:27 | 0:11:33 | |
particular way, so therefore that should proceed. What we have to be | 0:11:33 | 0:11:36 | |
mindful of his/her health. There have been a number of concessions -- | 0:11:36 | 0:11:43 | |
decisions taken due to her hell for conditions, but charges should be | 0:11:43 | 0:11:50 | |
heard in an open court. Do you think that due process should take place | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
as far as those outstanding charges are concerned? I would hope that | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
ultimately prosecutions can be brought forward, and if people are | 0:11:57 | 0:12:03 | |
convicted, then that is due process. There was a similar case where a | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
Republican had his licence revoked and then reinstated, and we were | 0:12:06 | 0:12:09 | |
told them that the charges remain on the books, and we are waiting to | 0:12:09 | 0:12:12 | |
find out what happens in that particular case. | 0:12:12 | 0:12:16 | |
Maybe we will bet getting clarification of all of that in due | 0:12:16 | 0:12:22 | |
course. And we will see the commissioners take up the invitation | 0:12:22 | 0:12:24 | |
from both of you to attend that committee. Raymond McCartney in our | 0:12:24 | 0:12:33 | |
Foyle studio and Paul Givan, thank for the SDLP. First the party | 0:12:33 | 0:12:35 | |
threatened to block a bill banning people who've served long prison | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
sentences from being special advisers at Stormont. Then it | 0:12:38 | 0:12:40 | |
changed its mind after an intervention from party grandees, | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
including Seamus Mallon. So has the party been damaged and where does it | 0:12:43 | 0:12:51 | |
leave the leadership of Alasdair McDonnell? Gareth Gordon reports. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:56 | |
Ballistic tests and the post-mortem on Mary Travers has shown that when | 0:12:56 | 0:13:03 | |
two gunmen... The murder of Mary Travers sop -- -- shocked the | 0:13:03 | 0:13:07 | |
community used to killing. Four years her sister Ann Travers | 0:13:07 | 0:13:12 | |
buy the grief in silence until Sinn Fein appointed Mary McArdle as | 0:13:12 | 0:13:18 | |
special adviser. I was shocked and appalled and felt physically sick | 0:13:18 | 0:13:25 | |
when I heard it. There was no prior warning. We did not know, Sinn Fein | 0:13:25 | 0:13:30 | |
did not even have the manners to let us know that this was going to | 0:13:30 | 0:13:36 | |
happen. At the time of the murder Alistair MacDonald was the Travis | 0:13:36 | 0:13:39 | |
family doctor. He understood the hurt that the appointment would | 0:13:39 | 0:13:46 | |
cause. Initially his party appeared sympathetic with a private members | 0:13:46 | 0:13:56 | |
bill had changed its mind. We have made every attempt that we possibly | 0:13:56 | 0:14:00 | |
could to shape this into Google. This is not been successful and we | 0:14:00 | 0:14:05 | |
are now considering supporting a petition of concern. But are you | 0:14:05 | 0:14:11 | |
going to do it? I think we probably will. Ann Travers met with party | 0:14:11 | 0:14:15 | |
leaders who were less than keen to talk about it. How did the meeting | 0:14:15 | 0:14:24 | |
go? Show us more respect. Show more respect. But finally the party | 0:14:24 | 0:14:29 | |
appeared to have a change of heart, agreeing not to block the bill and | 0:14:29 | 0:14:34 | |
even denying that that was ever an option. Who is going to veto the | 0:14:34 | 0:14:40 | |
bill? There were hints from your party on the airwaves. There were no | 0:14:40 | 0:14:46 | |
hints coming from the party. Dominic Bradley raised the issue with that | 0:14:46 | 0:14:49 | |
because Jim Allister was being so unhelpful, we were having | 0:14:49 | 0:14:55 | |
difficulty. For more than a week the SDLP wrestled publicly with the | 0:14:55 | 0:15:00 | |
issue of what to do about the Special Advisers' Bill before coming | 0:15:00 | 0:15:04 | |
awkwardly to a conclusion loaded with potential pitfalls. In a way | 0:15:04 | 0:15:08 | |
they were dammed if they did and dammed if they did not. The | 0:15:08 | 0:15:12 | |
impression is left of the party not sure where it is going who wants to | 0:15:12 | 0:15:18 | |
take with it. They had even been pressure from the party old card. A | 0:15:18 | 0:15:24 | |
young girl coming with her family on a Sunday morning was shot dead and | 0:15:24 | 0:15:28 | |
to put those people with that type of record into the top of the | 0:15:29 | 0:15:33 | |
administration instrument is to actually negate any of the really | 0:15:33 | 0:15:37 | |
basic philosophies of the Good Friday agreement in terms of | 0:15:37 | 0:15:43 | |
reconciliation. It is actually giving them two fingers to the | 0:15:43 | 0:15:48 | |
Unionist community. It has been a sad spectacle. Part of that nobody | 0:15:48 | 0:15:53 | |
could handle in that you cannot tell the elders of a party to be quiet. | 0:15:53 | 0:15:59 | |
When Seamus Mallon weighed in it may things ready much impossible for | 0:15:59 | 0:16:04 | |
Alasdair McDonnell who had looked as if he was beginning to get his feet | 0:16:04 | 0:16:09 | |
steady on the ground and get a grip of things. But in recent weeks again | 0:16:09 | 0:16:16 | |
we had the spectacle of the SDLP beginning to eat itself very much | 0:16:16 | 0:16:24 | |
like the Ulster Unionist party, it does remind you of that. I suppose | 0:16:24 | 0:16:29 | |
the role of the leader is to come forward and make a decision and get | 0:16:29 | 0:16:34 | |
on with it. There seem to be times when the SDLP was struggling to stop | 0:16:34 | 0:16:39 | |
Alex Attwood was seen publicly struggling. Some people in Sinn Fein | 0:16:39 | 0:16:44 | |
are suggesting that some individuals in the SDLP might even break ranks | 0:16:44 | 0:16:51 | |
and support the petition of concern. But those tensions are there and | 0:16:51 | 0:16:54 | |
they will reflect on Alasdair McDonnell who has had quite a | 0:16:54 | 0:16:58 | |
difficult time since he came in as party leader. There have been hints | 0:16:58 | 0:17:03 | |
of some kind of restructuring. There's also talk of the party | 0:17:03 | 0:17:08 | |
launching a new victim 's, assuming it has not been too damaged by this | 0:17:08 | 0:17:12 | |
one. -- -- big initiative. | 0:17:12 | 0:17:18 | |
Gareth Gordon reporting. We did ask the SDLP to take part in tonight's | 0:17:18 | 0:17:20 | |
programme, but it declined our invitation, though, as Gareth said, | 0:17:20 | 0:17:23 | |
the party is considering creating an initiative for victims. With me now | 0:17:24 | 0:17:26 | |
is the Victims' Commissioner, Kathryn Stone. Ann Travers, the | 0:17:26 | 0:17:29 | |
sister of the murdered teacher Mary Travers, has taken a lead on this | 0:17:29 | 0:17:33 | |
issue. Do you stand shoulder to shoulder with her in her campaign? | 0:17:33 | 0:17:39 | |
think Ann Travers is a very dignified and passionate woman who | 0:17:39 | 0:17:44 | |
shares with many other victims and survivors that dignity and passion, | 0:17:44 | 0:17:48 | |
that determination to make a difference. She is an incredibly | 0:17:48 | 0:17:53 | |
valuable member of our victims Forum. There are 23 members of the | 0:17:53 | 0:17:58 | |
forum who are equally valuable. I have to say there are differences of | 0:17:58 | 0:18:05 | |
opinion in that forum. And have never claimed to speak on behalf of | 0:18:05 | 0:18:13 | |
all victims. But in your capacity as the Victims Commissioner, can you | 0:18:13 | 0:18:17 | |
publicly come out and endorsed her position on this proposed | 0:18:17 | 0:18:20 | |
legislation? As Victims Commissioner, and the commission | 0:18:20 | 0:18:26 | |
must make sure that the voices of all victims are heard. When we gave | 0:18:26 | 0:18:30 | |
our evidence to the committee for Finance and personnel in November we | 0:18:30 | 0:18:34 | |
first went to the forum to ask them their opinion and there were some | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
who were very much in support of and's passionate determination to | 0:18:38 | 0:18:44 | |
see this determination that at to see this legislation through. Others | 0:18:44 | 0:18:52 | |
felt differently. I felt this was a political side swipe determines to | 0:18:52 | 0:18:56 | |
make sure that former prisoners were not offered opportunities to | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
rehabilitate and so on. So there are different opinions and we must | 0:18:59 | 0:19:04 | |
represent both. But if you are to be effective ultimately you have to | 0:19:04 | 0:19:07 | |
make a choice one way or another otherwise in a sense you do not | 0:19:07 | 0:19:12 | |
represent anyone. As you have said previously it is a difficult and | 0:19:12 | 0:19:19 | |
challenging job to make sure that we represent the diverse views of the | 0:19:19 | 0:19:24 | |
Thames and survivors in this society. And the fit and forum I | 0:19:24 | 0:19:30 | |
think is a very real microcosm of this society. -- -- the victims | 0:19:30 | 0:19:35 | |
Forum. People do have real differences of opinion. We have | 0:19:35 | 0:19:37 | |
uncomfortable conversations but there is agreement on a number of | 0:19:37 | 0:19:43 | |
things. Did Ann Travers approach you directly and ask for your support? | 0:19:43 | 0:19:49 | |
No. But she has been in touch with you in recent days? Of course.Did | 0:19:49 | 0:19:55 | |
she look for a public endorsement of her position? It is important to | 0:19:55 | 0:20:00 | |
remember that she was speaking on this matter as a private individual. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:05 | |
She has support from a whole range of victims groups and we at the | 0:20:05 | 0:20:10 | |
commission would support any victims trying to put forward a campaign. | 0:20:10 | 0:20:14 | |
Clearly there is a huge diversity of opinion on this piece of proposed | 0:20:14 | 0:20:19 | |
legislation. That being the case do you think that if it finds its way | 0:20:19 | 0:20:23 | |
on the statute books it will help the healing process, or promote | 0:20:23 | 0:20:30 | |
further division? I'm sure some people who this week by celebrating | 0:20:30 | 0:20:34 | |
and are hugely relieved that this piece of legislation looks set to | 0:20:34 | 0:20:40 | |
become legislation. There are others who will be equally bewildered and | 0:20:40 | 0:20:45 | |
disappointed about the fact that this piece of legislation looks set | 0:20:45 | 0:20:49 | |
to become law. I think we do have to remember there are different views | 0:20:49 | 0:20:54 | |
on this. You have underscored that again tonight. How do you take this | 0:20:54 | 0:21:00 | |
forward, how do you take the process of bringing people together as one | 0:21:00 | 0:21:06 | |
body, representing all of the victims of the conflict of the past | 0:21:06 | 0:21:10 | |
30 years to try to move the process forward? Where do you start with | 0:21:10 | 0:21:18 | |
that process? Well we have a forum, 23 people, who would each be the | 0:21:18 | 0:21:23 | |
Dems as defined -- I know the definition is contested, but we have | 0:21:23 | 0:21:28 | |
23 victims who regularly meet as volunteers to talk about some very | 0:21:28 | 0:21:33 | |
difficult stuff. They are formed into three working groups looking at | 0:21:33 | 0:21:37 | |
dealing with the past, how services are delivered, and how we build for | 0:21:37 | 0:21:42 | |
the future. I'm excited about the work coming out of the forum. It is | 0:21:42 | 0:21:47 | |
a huge privilege to be part of that energy and determination to make a | 0:21:47 | 0:21:52 | |
difference. How close are you to be able to table something tangible | 0:21:52 | 0:21:56 | |
that will help move the process forward? It is a matter of weeks | 0:21:56 | 0:22:01 | |
away. We have the chance to meet breast and Deputy First Minister | 0:22:01 | 0:22:07 | |
towards the end of June and we will table a merchant findings from the | 0:22:07 | 0:22:14 | |
discussions of the big guns forum from the past eight or nine months. | 0:22:14 | 0:22:18 | |
-- -- victims Forum. There are points of agreement and of | 0:22:18 | 0:22:23 | |
disagreement. But what before do, is to give some proposals to the First | 0:22:23 | 0:22:28 | |
and Deputy First Minister about the way forward. So you're telling us | 0:22:28 | 0:22:33 | |
that there is a draft document in existence? It is the very first | 0:22:33 | 0:22:39 | |
draft at the moment. But we will be able to resent them with emerging | 0:22:39 | 0:22:46 | |
findings. And we will be able to have those discussions. And there is | 0:22:46 | 0:22:52 | |
enough in that draft document to make it tangible, given the | 0:22:52 | 0:22:56 | |
differences of opinion you have already talked about? The forum is | 0:22:56 | 0:23:01 | |
about making a real difference to people. Lots of people are happy to | 0:23:01 | 0:23:07 | |
sit and theorise and make grandiose statements. The forum is about | 0:23:07 | 0:23:13 | |
making a difference. Thank you for joining us and interesting to hear | 0:23:13 | 0:23:18 | |
that that document is in existence. We look forward to seeing it in the | 0:23:18 | 0:23:28 | |
0:23:28 | 0:23:29 | ||
public domain seller rather than later. Well in commentators corner, | 0:23:29 | 0:23:33 | |
the professors are with me again tonight, Deirdre Heenan and Rick | 0:23:33 | 0:23:39 | |
Wilford. Rick, let's talk about the state of the SDLP after a bruising | 0:23:39 | 0:23:47 | |
week for the party. Has it been damaged? It is. They initially | 0:23:47 | 0:23:54 | |
seemed to support the bill and Ben said they were opposed to it. And | 0:23:54 | 0:23:57 | |
they are effectively going to be abstaining when the vote comes. I | 0:23:57 | 0:24:03 | |
think any damage sustained will be exploited by Sinn Fein. They will | 0:24:03 | 0:24:10 | |
make them appear to be complicit in what they see as an act of | 0:24:10 | 0:24:15 | |
vindictiveness and targeted at them. Whereas in fact it is sharply | 0:24:15 | 0:24:19 | |
focused and narrow in its scope and applies to anyone convicted of a | 0:24:19 | 0:24:28 | |
serious criminal offence. Just to finish that point, I think for many | 0:24:29 | 0:24:35 | |
people this is a moment when parties have been forced to pull their moral | 0:24:35 | 0:24:40 | |
compass out of the door. And you could argue that the SDLP has | 0:24:40 | 0:24:44 | |
failed. And in fact you selected this is your story of the week. | 0:24:44 | 0:24:50 | |
did. I felt the SDLP were looking for a middle way and ended up | 0:24:50 | 0:24:56 | |
appearing indecisive. What they try to do in their later debates was | 0:24:56 | 0:25:00 | |
turn this into a technical issue, to talk about the technicalities of the | 0:25:00 | 0:25:05 | |
bill. Whereas people at home and the public want to know, do you believe | 0:25:05 | 0:25:11 | |
that there is a moral issue at stake here? Deliberately that some things | 0:25:11 | 0:25:14 | |
are so reprehensible that individuals should not be seen to be | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
rewarded for their crimes and allowed to hold high public office. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:22 | |
And they have dodged that question. That is the quest in the people want | 0:25:22 | 0:25:30 | |
to know and also, is this an ethical issue. What ethics and morals do we | 0:25:30 | 0:25:35 | |
want to impart into the future? But in many ways I think this issue is a | 0:25:35 | 0:25:39 | |
sideshow to the issue about dealing with the past. Unless we deal with | 0:25:39 | 0:25:45 | |
the past this will come back. Are we to challenge the suggestions now | 0:25:45 | 0:25:49 | |
that we can say, reconciliation and truth can be separated and that is a | 0:25:49 | 0:25:58 | |
big issue that I think has been lost in this discussion. Rick, your | 0:25:58 | 0:26:03 | |
moment of the week. The shocking and brutal murder of drama Lee Rigby | 0:26:03 | 0:26:13 | |
0:26:13 | 0:26:13 | ||
last week. As everyone else, my emotional reaction was one just of | 0:26:13 | 0:26:22 | |
horror. Especially the images that we thought with passers-by taking | 0:26:22 | 0:26:24 | |
film on their phones and so on. Quite extraordinary and | 0:26:24 | 0:26:30 | |
unprecedented. But beyond that kind of moral revulsion there is a | 0:26:30 | 0:26:39 | |
political issue which is the current Home Secretary seeking to have | 0:26:39 | 0:26:43 | |
powers to intercept communications. The risk is that people are rushing | 0:26:43 | 0:26:47 | |
to judgement. We do not want Draconian legislation that will | 0:26:47 | 0:26:55 | |
enable the authorities to fish with a narrow measure net. It has to be | 0:26:55 | 0:27:05 | |
0:27:05 | 0:27:13 | ||
very focused I think. And going on a trawl like this is risky. Rick's | 0:27:13 | 0:27:21 | |
tweet comes from Anne McElvoy, The Economist. She was responding to an | 0:27:21 | 0:27:30 | |
article about Andy Coulson. He had written an article saying that as | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
once the Prime Minister to fail in order to take over at the | 0:27:33 | 0:27:43 | |
leadership. And Anne McElvoy goes on to say, In other news, bears enjoy | 0:27:43 | 0:27:50 | |
the woods and the Pope is a Roman Catholic. Deirdre's tweet is from | 0:27:50 | 0:27:58 | |
Tim McGarry @TimMcGarry. "Have decided to become like Jamie Dornan | 0:27:58 | 0:28:03 | |
in #thefall. Will utter three words an hour and be topless at every | 0:28:03 | 0:28:10 | |
opportunity." Is that a good idea? The idea that | 0:28:10 | 0:28:16 | |
he could at three words in an hour if laughable! It was more the | 0:28:16 | 0:28:22 | |
topless thing! It has its attraction! It says something about | 0:28:22 | 0:28:28 | |
the strength of drama being made in northern Ireland. It says something | 0:28:28 | 0:28:33 | |
about creative industries and trying to remember them. The co-founder of | 0:28:33 | 0:28:37 | |
Apple spoke about the strength of the creative industries in the North | 0:28:37 | 0:28:46 | |
West today. And we should seek to develop that. That is the future. | 0:28:46 | 0:28:53 | |
And there are many young people who want to be part of that. The second | 0:28:53 | 0:28:57 | |
reading in the house of lords on the same-sex marriage Bill is what I'm | 0:28:57 | 0:29:01 |