02/12/2012 The Wales Report

This week on The Wales Report: After the damage and distress

caused by the floods in North Wales, have the lessons really been

learned? We'll be talking to the minister in charge.

In the week of the Leveson Report, did the press get away with it once

again? We'll be exploring the balance between free speech and

freedom from press abuse. And amid new warnings that the rate

of HIV infection in Wales in escalating, we have a report on one

man's fight to keep an AIDS care centre open.

Good evening once again, it's time for The Wales Report. It's our

chance to examine some of the important issues for Wales, to talk

to some of those affected and to the decision-makers. The week has

been dominated by the scenes of extensive damage in North Wales,

with having to cope with floods and severe weather, hundreds of

families forced from their homes as the Elwy and Clwyd burst their

banks. One elderly woman lost her life. And questions are being asked

already about the circumstances. How sensible is it to build new

homes on flood plains? I'll be discussing this with the

Environment Minister, but first Tim Rogers, who investigated the floods

for the BBC's Week In Week Out, gives us his assessment of what

Images of destruction and anguish are becoming all too painfully

familiar across Wales. Homes destroyed and lives wrecked by a

force of nature. Every where. It is in my tumble-drier, my washing

machine. Everywhere. Visiting the scene of destruction this week,

First Minister Carwyn Jones had a warning for us all. It does show

what we have to do, or what we have to think about, in order to deal

with the effects of climate change in the future.

But there have been voices raised for some time that the Welsh

government needs to radically reconsider the whole policy of

flood defence. And there has been growing disquiet about the

regulations concerning the policy of building on flood plains,

brought into even starker contrast this week in Ruthin. The Whitley

Bay was only built in 2009, more than 100 houses and the estate were

flooded. Families rescuing their belongings from the devastation had

many questions. We got the house and the promise

that it was not a flood plain any more, things had been done to

guarantee they should not happen. By something went wrong and

questions are being asked about why planning permission was granted.

asked the head of planning to look at the planning application way

back in 2000 and 4/5, they are getting hold of that, looking at it.

-- way back in 2004/5. They're trying to find out the reasons.

councils and Environment Agency work to Welsh assembly guidelines.

But since it was introduced more than five years ago, 700 new

developments have been allowed on flood plains. All of this is

happening at a time of an impending perfect storm. Global warming is,

it is argued, producing extreme weather conditions across Wales,

while government financial restrictions are making spending on

flood defences ever more difficult. On top of this, the government

agreement with the insurance industry to underwrite cover for

properties in flood risk areas ends next spring, and talks to renew it

have stalled. The Environment Minister visited families this week

to see what the Government is doing and can do to help. In the next few

months he will have to come up with some answers.

With me is the Environment Minister, John Griffiths, who has kindly

cumin. The system is not working? think it is in many respects, in

terms of controls in place through the planning system, for example,

the advice note is very restrictive in terms of new developments in

flood risk areas. Despite the fact there are 700 or so developments we

have seen since the note was given out? But developments were town 15

are batting 2004 it was put in place in terms of its current form,

but there is a bit of a time lag with developments because

developers have five years to start developing from the granting of

planning permission and often they would build the first phase and

later phases will, over a period of years. There were evidence is that

it has been quite restrictive in terms of its effect. I'll be

looking to see far fewer developments in flood areas? -- are

we are looking to? We have much more restricted development.

that was the case when be badly hit estate was built, would it have

been subject to different rules? is never wise to talk too much

about a particular development in terms of planning matters as

planning minister, I have to be very careful because of the legal

considerations. But we can say there is a much more hands-on

approach from Welsh government. This summer, after the flooding the

experienced, we have a system in place now where housing is proposed

in a flood risk area, it must be referred to Welsh government to

consider whether it needs to be called in. We take a much more

strong line as the Welsh government to make sure that only appropriate

development takes place. OK, I understand the legal

sensitivities. Let's talk hypothetically and say there was a

case very similar to this estate in an area where you know there is a

risk, which you expected to be referred to you? It would be under

the new direction brought in this summer. Hypothetically, what kind

of the would you take? A highly precautionary view. Flood risk is

very serious to communities, as we saw last week and over the summer.

It is a very robust precautionary code, that must be right. But there

are wider issues. We know what an awful lot of Wales has already been

built on a in terms of the coast and the rivers, that development is

there. We are spending something like �150 million of flood defences.

Is that enough? It is a lot, but we are trying to find extra money by

bringing together the key partners, the Welsh government, Environment

Agency, local authorities and those whose infrastructure is protected.

We want to clearly prioritise when you defences need to be put in

place and find a resource for that. Crucially, people will be watching

him in future years will be presented with the opportunity of

buying a home in area traditionally associated with risk. They will

need to have confidence that the Welsh government has a really

detailed overview of this and you have called in the schemes, can you

assure people? I think so. Our planning system and our technical

advice is robust and highly precautionary. But we will look at

all these matters again and constantly keep them under review,

because when we have serious incidents are flooding we need to

look at the particular circumstances, any lessons and go

through that exercise. There are lots of pressures - the

local authority, developers, it is quite complex. Ultimately some

people think that the wrong pressures have won and those people

who wanted to be cautious have been overruled or outvoted. Will that

happen in future or not? We have this highly precautionary and

robust approach to recognising flood risk and guarding against it,

but it is a balance. If I look at my own area of Newport, on the east

banks of the river a new development has taken place

recently. As part of that development flood precautions have

been greatly increased and strengthened. The level of the land

has been substantially raised. That has provided much better protection

not just for the new development but thousands of existing homes. It

is always a balance end-June need to have a new generation -- and

Unita have regeneration. It was World Aids Day yesterday.

The Prime Minister says there is still too much ignorance about HIV

and AIDS. The latest figures suggest that 25,000 people in the

UK are HIV positive but aren't aware of it. In Wales, there were

169 new infections last year, and chief medical officer Ruth Hussey

warns that the risk of HIV infection is very real. The only

HIV/AIDS respite centre in Wales was opened in Penmaenmawr nine

years ago by Phillip Kearton-Smith. But the charity's funding has dried

up, and earlier this year it had to close its doors. As David Williams

reports, it's now a final appeal to the Welsh government for urgent

This was once the only HIV/AIDS respite centre in Wales. It stands

empty, stripped of its holistic furnishings. A shell of a place

rather than the sanctuary it once was, and now in the hands of the

liquidators. The former manager of the charity

runs centre at Penmaenmawr in North Wales spent more than �100,000 of

his own money to try and keep it open. But he is now destitute and

forced to live in two rooms in the empty property.

We tried every avenue. We tried to get help from the Welsh government,

in a business sense, been possible funding, just somebody to come and

talk about what we could and could not do.

The Welsh government gave a grant of �130,000 to help buy the

property nine years ago. But it now wants the money back, and a share

of the sale price. So this was your room?

When the centre closed its doors earlier this year, it closed them

to people like Tommy. He came here from Manchester in need of rest and

recuperation. I was in a wheelchair... Medication used to

reduce the effect of the HIV disease left him unable to walk.

You believe what you consultants say, that she will never walk again,

that is what I believed. -- that you will never walk again. But it

is no exaggeration to say that if you had not have come here...?

would have put me into care. I believe that. Surrey, are you OK?

Yeah, I'll be all right. I wouldn't have been alive. You wouldn't have

been alive? This was the only place of its kind

in Wales, and many who came here were referred to the home by the

Terrence Higgins Trust, a charity which aims to reduce the effects of

HIV/AIDS and one which actively promoted the North Wales respite

centre. It is a huge loss, and people are

now wondering where my going to go to get that additional support? --

where am I going to go? Organisations can provide day-to-

day support, but have the capacity to go away somewhere and spend some

complete time where you can be yourself is just lost.

The closure of the centre coincides with a dramatic rise in the number

of gay and bisexual men being diagnosed with HIV in the United

Kingdom. It is at an all-time high, and the number of cases in Wales

has reached 1400. Even more worrying is the

calculation that one in four people with HIV are completely unaware of

the infection. They may still be spreading the virus.

Wales has the highest trajectory of new cases of all the four UK

nations. This charity is unique, as I think we were quite clear. They

provided a vital service, as the evidence shows. They should be

supported. They cost the Welsh government virtually nothing. The

implications of not supporting them would end up with far greater cost

to the Welsh government than would otherwise be the case.

Philip is not without his supporters. A number of trustees of

the centre, including the Bishop of St Asaph, have written to the

Health Minister Leslie Griffiths, reminding her of the Trust's failed

attempts to interest the last government in helping assented to

diversified and pleading with her to be considerate of its manager --

in helping the centre to diversify. Philip has given outstanding

service to the charity for nine years. Now it seems it is almost as

if he can go on the rubbish heap. In response to the Bishop's pleas,

the Health Minister said, was found sympathetic towards his situation,

any claims being made must follow the appropriate legal procedure.

A very careful, politically correct, this is in their hands of the

lawyer's response. What do you make of that? I can understand you have

to be careful and government, you can't upset people or be seen to be

profligate with public money, but still we want our politicians to

show compassion and to care about The company's secretary isn't

impressed by the decision that she regards lacking in compassion.

is always the little man who suffers. I do not know how I would

cope. When we contacted the Department for at their help

Minister we were told that the Welsh Government is still

considering reclaiming the original grant and a share of the sale price.

In order that the money can be used to help a large number of people,

BC. But that is exactly what this place was doing. And the man who

did more than anyone to keep it open is now waiting to see if the

health minister goes ahead and reclaims the grant money and a

share of the prophet of the sale of the property. It is a decision that

could deprive him of there �100,000 owing him and it could leave him

homeless. It has affected me over the past will bought 18 months

trying to keep this place going. We had little funds. I was trying to

keep on supporting the people that I genuinely want to support, and

then I found that I did not know what my future was going to be and

it was very stressful. After months of anticipation, Lord

Justice Leveson finally unveiled his findings this week on the

British press, how it behaves, and how it should be regulated. David

Cameron said he accepted all the principles, but not the central

recommendation, which called for a new independent regulator backed by

new legislation. Charlotte Church was a prominent Welsh voice among

the victims of phone-hacking and press abuse, she said the Prime

Minister's response amounted to a betrayal. If you meet the statutory

underpinning because after three or five years of self regulation or

what ever it would be, when those standards slip which the inevitably

well, it is the way of the world, then as a backstop there to let it

not happen. With me is Professor Ian Hargreaves of Cardiff

University who knows both sides of the media divide extremely well as

a former editor of the Independent and a former director of BBC News.

That the press get away with it? I do not think so. Lord Leveson has

come up with a solution. The detail needs to be argued and thought

through. I do not believe that the press will get away with this in

the end but some of them will certainly try. They have done that

were the last century. The Prime Minister is extremely cautious

about this notion of the legislation. Is he right to be

sensitive? He is right to be sensitive but he would be wrong to

block it. The problem is, there has been a proposal for new forms of

self regulation at decade after decade and none of them have worked.

It is very important to get something that works whilst

safeguarding the freedom of the press, it is possible to do both.

There is that you in some close to the inquiry that what is being

proposed is in breach of the Convention of Human Rights, is that

right? I think that is a mistake in judgment. Human rights Terence in

principle, the freedom of the press, and the areas in which governments

have a legitimate reason for qualifying that, it is a

conditional freedom not an absolute freedom. Where will the argument go

now because the press thinks it can buy a bit of time or thin up to a

new structure? Will that be -- will that be enough? It's the press is

very smart about this and comes up with a set of proposals that looks

right that they all agree to do and it is implemented within the next

six months, I think that they have a strong chance of putting the

politicians into a position we the legislation is not ready anyway,

even amongst those who favour it, therefore there will be an

opportunity to back away what the new system working and declared to

be effective. That is the smart course for a bit press, that could

work, but the history tells you that that will not be what happens.

They were split before it Lord Leveson announced his report and

they will no doubt split afterwards. The case for a moderate -- a

moderate statutory underpinning will continue. What is the

importance of that underpinning? what the reason that Charlotte

Church expressed very well. If you do not have that then why would the

new arrangements not fall apart like every previous generation of

self regulation? Are we not in a position where the press might be

more serious about regulating themselves? We might be, and I hope

that we are. I regret that we need a High Court judge to tell us how

we need to legally frame press regulation. The press should have

done this for themselves previously. The public wants a disagreeable and

vibrant press, but they do not want a press that her wrasses families

and children were no evident reason of public interest. -- wrasses.

the process of regulating the press we look at political involvement,

people at a sensitive about that, how do we get the insurance but it

does not involve political meddling? You have to put a

political dimension of this... There is always a political

dimension, you have to put up one wall and then another wall between

the politicians and the way that the system works. There are ways

that that can be done. Lord let us and suggested a couple of writs and

there are probably others. -- Lord Leveson. Now we need to focus on

how we get it right so it is not a charter for politicians to

interfere, nobody wants that. But it has to be something that insures

that we have a robust way of regulating the press and we

established that and in that it right.

In a week of strong, striking headlines, one stood out for its

unusual nature. Four members of the National Assembly bravely decided

to go public about their personal experience of mental health issues,

notably depression. It is a condition which some people

consider a kind of hidden epidemic in Wales, some 4 million

prescriptions for anti-depressants were dispensed in Wales last year,

that is easily the highest rate in the UK. But drugs may not be the

best answer according to the writer and actor Boyd Clack, the man

behind television comedy hits Satellite City and High Hopes. He

has suffered from depression for most of his adult life and he

agreed to give us this personal Happy to pull chill autumn day.

What could possibly be bad about it? -- Abu to Pope. I supper for a

clinic -- from clinical depression and for me it can all be seen

through a green filter. It is a profound awareness, an illness that

affects you to the very core. You get feelings of alienation, feeling

terribly isolated, terrible feelings of fear, intense fear. You

have fear of other people and the world around you, Ian of nature,

theme of yourself. -- view of nature. Society's attitude to is

not always good. People used to think that they were possessed by

demons or witches and were persecuted. The whisky courted by

communities. Unfortunately, not much has changed. It is that little

thing, -- it is a brutal thing to marginalise people were already at

a very low ebb. Recent statistics have shown an increase in the

amount of anti-depressants used in Wales. It is hardly surprising as

we go through difficult times. The question that then arises, is

whether medication is the right way to go about treating it. The answer

is in the short term, yes, but not may be in the long term. I have

taken them from a long period of time. But there are about

treatments involved including a change of lifestyle and getting a

decent repeat job, didn't you have your family, these are things that

might not happen. Medication will be wet this for quite a long time

to come, I think. There are things you can do. When you see someone in

work have been holding their hit in the hands, or do not walk by, go

and sit with them and buy him a cup of tea. Join in a conversation.

Indeed to them as human beings. If the do not want to talk then just

sit there in benevolent silence. Show them that we're on a civilised

and good society. Don't because I am asking you to, do it because it

is the right thing to do. A powerful message.

Joining me now is Assembly Member Eluned Parrott, and from North

Wales, we are joined by mental heath expert Keith Fearns.

Eluned Parrott, you went public today but your own health issues,

why did you do that? I think it is important that all people see that

anybody can have mental health problems and come back from the

most Dark places and lead a perfectly the failing light. I

wanted to show people that there were positive messages to be told

about mental health. Tell us briefly what you experience was.

suffered from post-natal depression after the birth of both of my

children, most see easily after the second one. I found it

disorientating, you lose your sense of self and lose contact with the

person that you thought you were. I had to rebuild my life and rethink

my priorities. I had to start again from scratch. Keith Fearns, what is

your experience of people coming out of these sorts of mental health

problems? Do people depend on therapy or can they do a

combination of drugs and therapy? Medication alone is not as good as

C D T alone but the mixture as the best outcome. What is cognitive

behavioural therapy? It is concern about people's actions and how

rework. Is it practical advice? Everybody has a way of thinking and

a style of thinking, sometimes as time is used: once been of their

life but not in others. We are able to help people think about that and

act differently. It is a combination. There is a great

concern at the moment in Wales that we need are more therapists. We

only have 55 in coal of Wales. We also have a problem in Wales with a

dependency on drugs and anti- depressants. What is your spot on

turning the situation around? concerned that people do not have

access to talking therapies. In my own case it was a very positive

process and helped me to be built. In terms of drug therapies, it is

important not to be frightened to take them and certainly not to stop

taking them because the drugs in and of themselves can help you find

a stability. On that basis you were more able, I found, to tackle

challenging thoughts through a period of therapy. When I first

went to the doctor with my problem talking therapy would have been

successful, but I was not strong enough to do it. Is it a matter of

investment? How can we meet someone like you available to many people

where they can access your kind of service more easily? Why is that

not happening? But people not entering the profession in Wales?

We need the guidance of the Government and the at National

Assembly. There needs to be more than 55. There is not enough

regular training in Wales. There at 28 training centres in England and

none in Wales. England has spent �180 million want training new

therapists and that isn't there in Wales. As the Welsh Government get

it? I think they have made an effort to get it. I don't think it

is fair to say they do not recognise the problem. We have just

produced a new strategy. But all the strategy is all not help if

there are not implemented with funding to make a change actually

happen. It is good of you both to join us. I am sure we will return

to this in the months to come. I am sure you have your views on

that and a number of other of the issues raised tonight so please get