Browse content similar to 14/04/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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measles epidemic in Swansea. Should the MMR be obligatory for all | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
children? Welfare of people - a special report by the Paralympic | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
champion and member of the House of Lords, tanning great champion -- | :00:23. | :00:28. | |
tanning great Thomson. And wait take on closer look at Mrs Thatcher's | :00:28. | :00:38. | |
:00:38. | :00:41. | ||
involvement in Wales. -- we take a closer look. Great to be back, The | :00:41. | :00:46. | |
Wales Report will examine the issues and to hold the decision-makers to | :00:46. | :00:54. | |
account. One of those decision-makers -- what are they | :00:54. | :00:59. | |
doing about the measles epidemic? There are growing fears that the | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
epidemic will spread and one expert says it is certain to spread to | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
Cardiff and the Vale of Glamorgan. Public Health Wales believes that | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
40,000 miles children remain unvaccinated. Emergency clinics have | :01:11. | :01:21. | |
in full this weekend, all of which prompts rather big question - if | :01:21. | :01:25. | |
parents are not responsible, shouldn't the authorities take steps | :01:25. | :01:35. | |
:01:35. | :01:35. | ||
to make the MMR mandatory? It has been an anxious time for parents in | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
Swansea. And the queues at the emergency clinics get longer as the | :01:41. | :01:48. | |
outbreak grows. More than 6000 people, many teenagers, still have | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
not been vaccinated against measles here. Measles can involve much more | :01:53. | :02:00. | |
than a fever and a rash. Obligations can lead to deafness, brain damage | :02:00. | :02:08. | |
and it can kill. This is the second egg measles outbreak in West Wales. | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
Four years ago there was another without break and fewer than ten | :02:13. | :02:22. | |
miles away from here. This nursery was at the centre. 265 people had | :02:22. | :02:30. | |
the disease and VM's. Was one of four children attending the nursery | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
who ended up in hospital. I woke up one morning and she was still in | :02:35. | :02:41. | |
bed, not responding. I called the doctor and the doctors said it was | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
measles and she sent us to the hospital, and we were admitted. It | :02:46. | :02:53. | |
was a horrible time. She was lifeless, it was one of the scariest | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
things I have been through as a mother. The outbreak in Swansea is | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
three times eager. And she is terrified that other daughter will | :03:02. | :03:11. | |
get it. Although Olivia is too young to have the vaccine, her mother is | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
among a number of parents asking for the jab early to give their babies | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
protection. There is a panic. Thinking she will go through what | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
Abigail has been through. We have spoken to the doctor and they are | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
willing to have her go down to have it earlier. They are happy for her | :03:30. | :03:40. | |
:03:40. | :03:43. | ||
to have that. So, why is this big outbreak happening? Why here and | :03:43. | :03:53. | |
now? In the 1990s, there was widespread panic. There was the | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
publication of the now discredited research strongly linked the MMR | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
with autism. The number of babies receiving the MMR -- MMR dropped | :04:02. | :04:09. | |
across the UK but in Swansea, it plummeted. The finger of blame has | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
been pointed at the South Wales Evening Post, which at the time that | :04:12. | :04:17. | |
the campaign which featured worried local parents. The editor at the | :04:17. | :04:24. | |
time stands by his story. As I saw it, the concerns were totally | :04:25. | :04:31. | |
genuine. What were we supposed to do? Tell them to go away? Newspapers | :04:31. | :04:37. | |
listen to readers and report and they go to the relevant people and | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
say, what have you got to say? that the outbreak we have no is | :04:42. | :04:48. | |
happening, any regrets? No, it is impossible to have regrets because I | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
am certain that if we wind the clock back and started again, I cannot | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
imagine any bees and why we would not do it the same way. At no time | :04:59. | :05:05. | |
did the newspaper ever say to parents, do not let your children | :05:05. | :05:11. | |
have this? We never said that. I could argue that I regret the health | :05:11. | :05:17. | |
authority did not make that point more effectively. Since then, | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
professionals have been proactive in trying to rebuild trust in the MMR | :05:21. | :05:27. | |
vaccine. Now, many in the medical community want to go further. They | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
are calling for tougher rules to make sure children are immunised. | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
The first thing we should do is to ask for some evidence that the child | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
has been immunised before they are allowed into school and that happens | :05:38. | :05:45. | |
in America. Would that work?I do not know but we must try because we | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
presently have a nasty outbreak of measles and we are hoping there | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
won't be too many children affected severely and hoping we shall not get | :05:54. | :06:00. | |
what is likely to be the inevitable death. What will it take to convince | :06:00. | :06:06. | |
parents together children immunised? Will the week -- will be the | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
required to have vaccines before being let into nurseries in order to | :06:09. | :06:17. | |
stop another outbreak? Helen Callaghan. Joining the night, the | :06:17. | :06:23. | |
Director of Health detection for Public Health Wales. So many | :06:23. | :06:31. | |
concerned parents. What can you tell me? This outbreak has not gone away, | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
we are still seeing 100 new cases every week and I am concerned the | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
schools are opening next week and there will be huge opportunities for | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
this to spread, more than over the Easter holidays. The vaccine is the | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
only thing that. This, there are far too many children who have never | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
been protected. We have seen parents demanding it. What is the level of | :06:53. | :07:00. | |
demand? At the level that you think is showing a good response? There is | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
no doubt that there must have been about 3000 parents across South | :07:04. | :07:11. | |
Wales yesterday. That is tremendous. However, the children we really need | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
to vaccinate or the older children and we have not seen them coming in | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
the same numbers. What is your message to the parents of teenagers | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
who are reluctant or think they have time on their hands? The important | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
thing is that they signed the consent form, that is at the bottom | :07:27. | :07:33. | |
of the schoolbag, so look out. Sign that and make sure their child | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
leaves school with appropriate protection. I am convinced in my own | :07:37. | :07:44. | |
mind that we have won the war. MMR is safe. You can see parents with | :07:45. | :07:52. | |
little babies. I thought that everybody had agreed that it is? | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
That argument was resolved some years ago? That is true, the Lancet | :07:57. | :08:04. | |
in 2010, they said that. But for parents to be convinced. We have | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
never had such media coverage or talked about the forgotten older | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
children. We have not engaged parents of those children for a very | :08:12. | :08:20. | |
long time in such an effective way. What kind of challenge are you | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
looking at? How many people do you need to get vaccinated in the months | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
to come? I would not like to say months, there is an urgency as soon | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
as is. Within one month?Yes, huge efforts to capture the children in | :08:36. | :08:42. | |
schools. How many?If you look at children who should have had at | :08:42. | :08:47. | |
least one vaccination, there are 40,000. Children aged between five | :08:47. | :08:54. | |
and 18, we should have had two doses, another 30,000. So about | :08:54. | :09:00. | |
70,000 children. Within one month? This is across Wales and this is a | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
priority, it is a public health emergency, and if we don't do this | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
now, you might never get the opportunity again. While we have the | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
media support. While this is on everybody's mind. Nobody wants to | :09:15. | :09:22. | |
see any death. We might have to rip -- favoured sources but it should | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
happen. Everybody will understand the force behind that statement. Is | :09:27. | :09:34. | |
death possible to? It is, there were six in France in 2011 and five of | :09:34. | :09:40. | |
those working ages. If we don't vaccinate, it will happen. | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
parents watching, still wondering if you are on top of this, what do you | :09:43. | :09:50. | |
say? I think we have done a huge amount, there is a real effort to | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
get this done in schools and they understand the seriousness, they | :09:54. | :10:00. | |
understand that the vaccine is the only way to prevent the spread and I | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
want them to work with us, the ball is in their court. In the weeks | :10:03. | :10:10. | |
coming forward. Get the consent form. In some cases, is it not worth | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
taking the ball out of their court and making this obligatory? I would | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
not like that. I think parents choice is very important and parent | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
choice based on good, accurate information is crucial. The choices | :10:23. | :10:30. | |
that parents made 13 years ago were based on what they understood to be | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
the risks. While the professionals might have said it was safe, they | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
did not hear that, they saw a motive parents on television and heard | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
tragic stories and they made the decision that was right for their | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
children. They now recognise, and I have spoken to parents, that if they | :10:47. | :10:53. | |
could go back, they would. But they did not know. It'll be a very month | :10:53. | :11:00. | |
ahead. We wish you well. Thank you very much. This month sees the | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
introduction of the biggest changes ever and limited in the welfare | :11:02. | :11:07. | |
system. A study this week by Sheffield Hallam University says the | :11:07. | :11:13. | |
changes will have a particularly adverse impact in Wales. Of the ten | :11:14. | :11:14. | |
local authorities, most heavily affected across the UK, three of | :11:14. | :11:24. | |
:11:24. | :11:32. | ||
them are in Wales. Tony Grey Thomson that came into force two weeks ago | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
have described as the biggest shift since its inception. The restructure | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
was required to make the system more simple. But also because of the | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
number of times that cost was mentioned, to save money. I don't | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
think anybody would have created a system that ended up being this | :11:48. | :11:56. | |
contributed or this expensive. There are very few people who do not agree | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
that reform is needed. It is harder to agree what that looks like. | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
Successive governments have tried to tackle this demand inefficiency but | :12:04. | :12:11. | |
it is an uphill battle. Welfare is an emotive issue. The language of | :12:11. | :12:18. | |
elephant scroungers has changed to strivers and skivers. They remind me | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
of the undeserving and deserving poor of the 1940s and I don't now | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
anybody who thinks those who cheat the system should be allowed to. But | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
part of the problem does lie in public perception and in reality, | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
those cheating are relatively few. Emotion exists in the language and | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
nowhere is this more clearly seen than when discussing the bedroom | :12:37. | :12:43. | |
tax. Regardless of whether you think this is a tax or a subsidy, the | :12:43. | :12:50. | |
words have got people talking in recent months. Steve from carefully | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
as one of those people whose lives will be seriously affected by the | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
new tax rules. The former security guard who worked all his life but | :12:58. | :13:03. | |
had to give up his job because of chronic kidney disease needs | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
dialysis three times a week and his spare bedroom has been transformed | :13:06. | :13:13. | |
into his treatment room. The one spare room that they say I have, | :13:13. | :13:20. | |
they want to stop 14 % of my housing benefit, roughly �12 a week, that is | :13:20. | :13:26. | |
money I simply have not got. Benefits, that is not a great deal | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
of money, it is the bare minimum that they think you can survive on. | :13:31. | :13:38. | |
�50 a month out of that is going to be a real hardship for me. It is not | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
a lifestyle choice. It is not, this is not a life, this is just an | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
existence. It is hard to argue against the philosophy that people | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
should be living in appropriate sized housing for their needs. But | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
what has been attempted here is a correction to policy. But holding | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
the right size automotive housing where it is really needed. There is | :14:00. | :14:07. | |
no quick fix. The reality of moving people is somewhat different to when | :14:07. | :14:17. | |
:14:17. | :14:17. | ||
you see it written down. Because of the move in people, it is not | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
quantifiable and the true cost I'd only be realised in several years, | :14:20. | :14:27. | |
when we can look back and analyse the data. Recent UK government | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
statements have suggested that reining in the welfare spending will | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
be an extremely challenging task. But I believe a huge amount could be | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
achieved in terms of savings are looking at the administration of the | :14:38. | :14:43. | |
system. By ensuring that benefit assessments carried out robbery in | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
the first place and that the number of cases that go to appeal and | :14:47. | :14:51. | |
overturned down. Sadly, that is part of the detail that we are never able | :14:51. | :15:01. | |
:15:01. | :15:13. | ||
to get our teeth into and why Case-study we saw the film, is that | :15:13. | :15:23. | |
:15:23. | :15:24. | ||
the sort of person who should they lose out? In no way can the use of | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
that room, where we saw that they Ellis's machine, can that be | :15:28. | :15:38. | |
described as a spare room. What are his options klezmer going through | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
an appeals process? One of the things we have then is double the | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
amount of money available for Wales local authorities through | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
discretion the housing payments to help the hard cases. Without | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
knowing all the full details, just from what I saw, he is exactly a | :15:54. | :16:01. | |
difficult case their knees and additional support. He clearly | :16:01. | :16:05. | |
feels that within the rules as they are on paper he will be caught up | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
in it. That is telling people that you are not targeting the right | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
people. There is a lot of fear around. Any change brings with it | :16:14. | :16:21. | |
uncertainty. We're talking about vulnerable people and our job as a | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
politicians is to get close to these people. We could be looking | :16:25. | :16:32. | |
at a clip of eight-bedroom with an two bunk bed and a four children. | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
The issue of housing overcrowding as well as the issue of single | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
people or couples living in three- bedroom houses where they have | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
generally spare rooms. There is a real issue of fairness here as well, | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
how we manage the housing stock and a change we're bringing means | :16:49. | :16:54. | |
people living in council houses will have to make the same chain -- | :16:54. | :17:02. | |
decisions as people living in privates homes. In your area, how | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
many sports -- spare properties do you have? The great demand in our a | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
for two and three-bedroom houses. I get people coming into my surgery | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
wanting to move out to their one- bedroom properties. It is something | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
we started to see even before the change kicked in. People were | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
living into a three-bedroom properties, started to were cows | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
they were not going to be able to afford the extra to stay where they | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
are. They are arranging swaps were tenants a one-bedroom properties. | :17:32. | :17:37. | |
People can do that on the website of the local authorities. If people | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
are making decisions. One-bedroom properties are being released. I'm | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
not trying to downplay the issue of the shortage. Not everybody | :17:46. | :17:53. | |
currently under an occupying will be required to move. Some of them | :17:53. | :17:59. | |
will say they value the spare room and will pay for it. Some of the | :17:59. | :18:05. | |
research we did shows in some areas of Wales, there is no council stock | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
of the smaller properties, one- bedroom homes where people could | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
move to. In those cases people don't have a choice, they will have | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
to take the brunt of the reform. depends on what they want to do. If | :18:18. | :18:25. | |
they want to downsize there is an issue. I recognise that. One of the | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
reasons we are through the discretionary housing payments, we | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
want to help the transition so it might be somebody wants to move | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
because they can't afford to stay on won't be able to afford it. They | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
won the that belong go in there comes property to manage the change | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
will stop the payments will help them do that if their local | :18:45. | :18:51. | |
authority are using those funds. point of principle, do you think | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
and the research by Sheffield Hallam is clear, do you think Wales | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
is being asked to share a greater burden of this than other parts of | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
the UK? No, I don't think Wales has been asked to shoulder a bigger | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
burden. We have a greater proportion of people in Wales who | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
were reliant on benefits, we have a greater proportion of people in | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
Wales who are registered as disabled. Any change to the welfare | :19:17. | :19:22. | |
system will impact Wales. Fourth actually, when you look at the | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
fruit of what the reformers bring through, encouraging people back | :19:26. | :19:33. | |
into work, supporting people to live fuller lives, you come to the | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
conclusion Wales needs welfare reform just as much as anybody else. | :19:37. | :19:41. | |
You have seen the list because the 10 local authorities across the UK | :19:41. | :19:47. | |
most affected by a welfare report, top-ten, is start with Blackpool, | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
then Merthyr Tydfil is number four and then you come to Blaenau Gwent | :19:50. | :19:55. | |
and Neath. If that is three in the top 10. What does that tell you? | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
Way you have concentrated pockets of high unemployment you also get a | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
concentration of people relying on benefits particularly disability | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
benefits. And he's the type of people should be shouldering these | :20:09. | :20:15. | |
changes? -- are these. If you are saying we should be running to the | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
barricades to defend the existing system, a system that has kept two | :20:20. | :20:25. | |
and 1,000 people in West from ever working at the end their life, that | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
locks whole communities in worklessness, then no. What we're | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
trying to do through our welfare reform, Tanni Grey-Thompson | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
mentioned simplifying the system, it is about fairness and also about | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
restoring the value of work, the incentives to work into the system. | :20:43. | :20:48. | |
If the welfare system far too often encourages people to stay on | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
benefits and does not create pathways out of poverty. We know | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
work is the only sure way out of poverty. Hopefully in a few moans | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
we will have you back and we will talk about the changes. -- in a few | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
months. The headlines have been dominated by the death of by Miss | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
Thatcher. Lot of the news and comment focused on that we deeply | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
divided opinions of what the latter years achieved. Those divisions | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
addit cues which isn't surprising when you consider the traumatic | :21:18. | :21:23. | |
offered -- episode of the miners' strike. Her visits to Wales often | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
sparked a lot of controversy. new industries aren't the heavy, | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
clanking, dirty condition industries. They are good, clean | :21:33. | :21:39. | |
industries. Doesn't that please do? Doesn't that please do? Owed cheer | :21:39. | :21:48. | |
up. That was Margaret Thatcher. She was speaking on a memorable visit | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
to South Wales. Joining me now is the former Labour MP, Dr Kim | :21:52. | :22:02. | |
:22:02. | :22:03. | ||
Howells. Also joining us is Cheryl Gillan. Can I ask you, how much of | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
an inspiration was Margaret Thatcher to you? She was the reason | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
I got into politics. I was active in politics but never thought I | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
would be an MP. A lot of women think like that and I didn't think | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
it was for a woman. I remember in 1979 when she was leader of the | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
opposition I sat almost next to her at the dinner for other candidates | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
and she told me that I should be thinking about being an MP. I | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
walked away from that in and sat with a whole load of male | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
colleagues and set, "I think she was right". For she inspired a lot | :22:37. | :22:47. | |
:22:47. | :22:49. | ||
of people in Wales. She started the buying the council houses scheme. | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
She had the influence which was powerful enough to get 14 | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
Conservative MPs elected in Wales. People forget that. They tend to | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
paint a picture of the 1980s as being a Tory-free zone in Wales. It | :23:03. | :23:10. | |
wasn't. He even when I was elected in 1989, there were 14 Conservative | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
MPs in Wales. Rise from the north all the way to the south. She had | :23:15. | :23:22. | |
an effect. She had another effect which has really resonated over the | :23:22. | :23:30. | |
past week since Lady Thatcher died. She had her virtues, she also had | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
some civvy his defects, I think. The way she treated the call feels | :23:34. | :23:41. | |
was one of them. Defects, do you agree? She did say in that famous | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
speech when there was a vote of no confidence in the Labour government | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
when she was leader of the opposition, no government can | :23:48. | :23:53. | |
protect yesterday's jobs for ever. They can all put off the inevitable. | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
That is how she saw a lot of our industrialisation, many of these | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
jobs were the jobs for the past and could not been protected. We had to | :24:03. | :24:08. | |
look for the jobs for the future. She was also passionate about | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
reducing the involvement of the state which was enormous in those | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
days and giving people individual freedom. We have mentioned the | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
council house sales but reducing the level of personal taxation | :24:21. | :24:27. | |
because she thought Welsh -- wealth creation was important. If we talk | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
about the strength of the Conservatives in the 1980s, has | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
started in 1979 when the upswing for the Tories happened. To what | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
extent was that all about Mrs Thatcher and her brand of | :24:39. | :24:49. | |
leadership? To what extent was it about the 1970s? She knew what the | :24:49. | :24:55. | |
feeling of the time was. I remember right in the middle of the strike | :24:55. | :24:59. | |
we wanted a quiet look and some ports in Essex which we heard were | :25:00. | :25:05. | |
importing coal. In London, we were keeping as if we had landed from | :25:05. | :25:10. | |
Mars at the wealth and the excess as seemed to be on the streets of | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
the city of London in the middle of the miners' strike in 1984. There | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
were severe deprivation here. It was a tale of two nations by any | :25:19. | :25:25. | |
definition. I think Mrs Thatcher understood that. Many politicians | :25:25. | :25:33. | |
did not. We didn't. Cheryl Gillan is quite right, industries lose | :25:33. | :25:39. | |
their primacy and their purpose but, remember, they are not just jobs, | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
the are not an abstract quality, they are people. The way people are | :25:44. | :25:50. | |
treated has an impact upon their psychology in subsequent years. | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
That is why there is such bitterness. If it had been managed | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
better, the decline of that industry, the wheeze was phased out | :25:58. | :26:03. | |
and new jobs coming in and people would be thinking differently about | :26:03. | :26:08. | |
it. But believe me they don't. There are still a lot of people who | :26:08. | :26:13. | |
feel very, very badly about Lady Thatcher event within News she has | :26:13. | :26:19. | |
died. I just think we forget Wales was having not just a tough time | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
but was having a really tough time under Labour governments in terms | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
of the income policies, in terms of what was happening with the mines. | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
If so many mines were closed under Wilson and Callaghan. Even people | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
wanting to protect and develop the Welsh language were not exactly | :26:36. | :26:41. | |
getting good feedback from the Labour government at the time. It | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
took a Conservative government to bring in S4C. That wonderful | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
turnaround in the election and the 14 MPs was the reaction to Labour's | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
treatment of Wales and Wales on the Welsh people wanted to give | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
somebody else a chance. If a final force for you both, one commentator | :26:59. | :27:04. | |
said we have to accept, and the conservatism have to accept, there | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
will always be divided opinion about Margaret Thatcher. -- the | :27:11. | :27:17. | |
Conservatives will have to accept. What would you say? That is right. | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
She was at a strong character and so decisive and so deferens in her | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
views and in her leadership, there will always be discussions about | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
her. We have got to remember there were good things as well as bad | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
things from the perspective of Wales. He then the health and | :27:35. | :27:42. | |
social benefit went up three times. -- health and social budget. | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
Unemployment doubled. It was a time of transition but his was be | :27:47. | :27:52. | |
remembered as the time of creative, imaginative time. It will be seen | :27:52. | :27:56. | |
as an attack, communities that we valued so much in Wales and | :27:57. | :28:02. | |
continue to value. We have survived it. I hope people remember that | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
community is important. I'm not sure Margaret Thatcher believed | :28:05. | :28:14. | |
that. I think she did. You must remember, as long as you're not | :28:14. | :28:20. | |
selected in your memories. I am not going to be selective, in saying | :28:20. | :28:26. |