Browse content similar to 21/04/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, a fortune are spent by public bodies in Wales buying goods | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
and services, but our Welsh companies getting their fair share | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
of the business? Local elections return to Anglesey | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
after one of the bigger scandals in local government, but are the | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
problems resort? His it is a national disgrace, | :00:23. | :00:28. | |
really, isn't it? And do as the Swansea measles | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
epidemic continues to spread, more questions about the role of the | :00:33. | :00:43. | |
:00:43. | :00:45. | ||
Good evening. Welcome to the Wales Report, where the examine the | :00:45. | :00:50. | |
issues affecting the lives in Wales and question those making the all | :00:50. | :00:54. | |
important decisions. This would we are focusing on spending, because | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
every year more than �4 billion of Welsh taxpayers money is spent on | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
securing goods and services from private companies to provide public | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
services throughout Wales, but half the money import is committed to | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
companies outside Wales, not just England and but further afield. | :01:12. | :01:18. | |
Some large companies feel -- some Welsh companies feel they are not | :01:18. | :01:27. | |
getting their share. We ask whether a company's with contracts for | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
public bodies in Wales should be awarded to Welsh companies | :01:30. | :01:38. | |
generally? They buy school dinners, hospital | :01:38. | :01:45. | |
equipment, road building and construction projects. Every year, | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
public bodies like the Welsh Government, local councils and | :01:48. | :01:55. | |
health authorities spent some �4.3 billion of your money on goods and | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
services. Those lucrative contracts can have an enormous impact on | :02:01. | :02:11. | |
:02:11. | :02:13. | ||
communities in Wales. Many authorities -- but nearly �2 | :02:13. | :02:21. | |
billion of that money crosses the border, to England and beyond. It | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
is exasperating for business owners like Neil Phillips. His company | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
supplies play equipment for councils in England, but he has not | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
yet won contracts in Wales. When you are competing on quality and | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
price and both are the same, you question why the work was put out | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
to a non Welsh company when all of the benefits that you see from | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
using Welsh business and keeping Welsh many within the Welsh economy | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
are so great. You work hard as a business, you try and build a | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
business up and Wales, you employ a Welsh people to work on Welsh | :03:01. | :03:10. | |
projects. It does not happen. It is very, very, very frustrating. | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
Many of the large firms we spoke to found the process cumbersome and | :03:14. | :03:22. | |
complicated. -- many of the Welsh firms. Price, value for money, | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
quality, delivery and other factors have to be looked at. As part of | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
the decision-making process, the impact on jobs and the local | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
economy can be considered. Last year the Welsh Government issued a | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
set of principles to help guide all public bodies in the buying of | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
goods and services. This procurement apology is supposed to | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
make things fair -- this procurement policy. It is meant to | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
give smaller businesses a better chance of winning some of those | :03:52. | :03:58. | |
contracts. But does it have teeth? Opposition politicians say that | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
other countries, including Scotland, have given more contracts to their | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
own countries. They want the Welsh Government to legislate to help us | :04:06. | :04:11. | |
do the same. We've been talking for many years | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
about getting procurement right, it is still only at 50% compared to | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
other countries, not good enough. Legislation could increase targets, | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
make sure that community benefit courses are in the heart of the | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
contracts and insure that the money we spent from the public sector is | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
locked into local communities and creates jobs. We can't afford to | :04:32. | :04:38. | |
wait on it any longer. An independent review recommended | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
that the Welsh Government strongly considers introducing legislation | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
to make adopting the procurement policy a legal duty. Without a bed | :04:47. | :04:51. | |
does not seem to have been much progress. We have discovered that | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
although the national policy was introduced last year, out of 22 | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
local authorities, just two, Swansea and another, have formally | :05:02. | :05:09. | |
adopted the policy. We went to see a representative of local councils | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
in Wales, to see if it was time for action. Legislation is not the | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
answer to everything, we have to deliver the business, part of that | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
is adopting best practice. messages do not seem to be getting | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
through. We can't be pushing work willy-nilly to local companies, it | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
has to be done on the basis of a procurement process. We have to | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
justify value-for-money to auditors, the public and, in terms of | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
accountability, to our own politicians. We tried to push as | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
much business as we can locally but it is not always possible to be in | :05:45. | :05:52. | |
100%. We want to be part of a wider UK market, it is vital for us. | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
Many Welsh businesses struggling to climb to the top are hoping that in | :05:56. | :06:02. | |
future, should during -- securing large contracts will not be such a | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
challenge. We seem to be overlooked. Why are those contracts going | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
outside of Wales? I don't understand, I think it needs to be | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
addressed. There is a question. Joining me now | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
is the finance minister for Wales. Thank you for coming in. That was a | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
very pointed question, a lack of comprehension. Do you sympathise? | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
Two-thirds of our major construction contracts last year | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
went to Welsh based companies. We have to make it easier for Welsh | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
based companies to get those contracts. We are talking about, as | :06:37. | :06:43. | |
has been said, poor -- �4.3 billion worth of public money for housing, | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
roads and hospitals. We are simplifying the process and we are | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
saying the Community must benefit, meaning jobs, apprenticeships, | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
local supply chains for local business. Those principles that we | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
have talked about, there is no option about this, I expect them to | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
be implemented by local authorities, the NHS and all those in the public | :07:05. | :07:11. | |
sector. Going back to the gentleman we just saw with that successful | :07:11. | :07:15. | |
business, I know you won't be able to judge an individual cases, but | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
on the face of it, things like that should be matters for local | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
business. He could expect to pick up local authorities a business in | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
Wales, surely? I would think so, but it is important he is also | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
picking up business in England, we must make sure that Welsh | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
businesses are effectively competing in England. But it is | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
crucial that local authorities... And we are supporting local | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
authorities at getting better in involving local businesses. We are | :07:47. | :07:52. | |
saying that you have to ensure that you get local businesses, all | :07:53. | :08:00. | |
across the EU regulations, and make sure that the community benefits, | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
support local businesses like Neil's business. How disappointed | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
or frustrated argue that you only have two authorities who have | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
signed up to this more streamlined new process, set of criteria, if | :08:14. | :08:21. | |
you like? It is onesie and one other, what are the rest doing? -- | :08:21. | :08:27. | |
it is Swansea and one above. have a national procurement service | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
strategy, which is very important, all local authorities are working | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
with us, the Welsh Government and the health service, part of a | :08:36. | :08:41. | |
national service. Also recognising, as I said, they have a | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
responsibility to deliver up on community benefits. Some are better | :08:45. | :08:52. | |
than others, no question. Some of them have to come online. That is | :08:52. | :08:58. | |
why, as I said, in the future, we will consider legislation. That was | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
very clear in my December statement. If they don't adopt our procurement | :09:03. | :09:09. | |
policies... What would it take for you to legislate? If it is a matter | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
of local authorities simply not playing the game, you would | :09:12. | :09:18. | |
consider legislation? I think we are on the right track. How many | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
are implementing it? It is easy to talk, how many are actually doing | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
it and really implementing what you want them to do? Not many? | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
believe we are on the right track, I have to save. We have said that | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
you have got to implement over �2 million, any contractor over �2 | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
million. We are working with construction companies. In North | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
Wales, we are meeting with some contractors there from North Wales, | :09:46. | :09:53. | |
they have won of the contract, they have apprentices on site, they are | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
adopting. Of course, you don't want legislation for legislation's sake, | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
it is always powers for Purpose. We have to ensure they are delivering | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
on his policy statement. I made that in December. It is key in | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
terms of the economy in Wales. Where they are not implementing it | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
down doing as you would like them to do, what reasons do you | :10:16. | :10:24. | |
encounter? What are the reasons for the very low rate, 51 off 52%? | :10:24. | :10:30. | |
is improving all the time. If you look at the recent contract to a | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
developing four schools in North Wales, 21st century schools, a big | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
building programme, we are putting money into the infrastructure. The | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
Welsh Government is investing so there is a real opportunity. All | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
the North Wales authorities have come together. We have said to them | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
we don't just want one contract, it will be good value for money having | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
one contract for the whole of North Wales, but we will break it down so | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
that you can have a lower value contracts, meaning more contractors | :10:57. | :11:03. | |
being able to come in at different levels. This is the way forward. | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
Contractors and North Wales are anxious to make sure that they can. | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
As I speak, things are changing in terms of the way we are developing | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
our contract. It is also about learning the lessons, we have | :11:14. | :11:23. | |
learned the lessons, we are talking an award for our community benefits. | :11:23. | :11:27. | |
Because of -- across the whole of the UK, we are looked at as a | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
government working in the public sector, but with local authorities | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
they have to improve their game, that is a strong message from the | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
as Minister. Very strong and clear. There is another big advantage you | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
might have, which is that if you weren't having to deal with as many | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
local authorities, if they were far fewer in number across Wales, as | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
many think they should be, this procurement process would be simple | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
and should be streamlined. Is that an outcome you want? In North Wales, | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
all the local authorities have to work together. They have got one | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
framework now for the 21st century schools programme. That is over | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
�160 million, jobs in the construction industry. | :12:10. | :12:14. | |
Collaboration is the name of the game here in Wales, that is what we | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
expect as a Welsh Government. They are due very much. | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
In 11 days' time, voters will go to the polls in the only local | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
authority election taking place in Wales on May 2nd, the first local | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
election Anglesey since 2008. It has been a very turbulent time, and | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
after a decade of political infighting, the Welsh Government | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
took the extreme step of appointing commissioners to run the county | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
council backing 2010. Last year's local government elections were | :12:45. | :12:50. | |
suspended, and David Williams, who lives on the island, has reported | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
extensively on the island's troubles. He now considers what | :12:54. | :13:04. | |
:13:04. | :13:11. | ||
Anglesey, the mother of Wales. Once she was the bread basket of | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
Welsh princes. More recently, she has become something of a basket | :13:16. | :13:24. | |
case. In local authority terms, a political pauper. | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
It is only a short distance across the Menai Bridge from the mainland | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
to Anglesey, but sometimes when you step on this island you feel as | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
though you are stepping into another world. The gap becomes a | :13:36. | :13:43. | |
chasm, a gulf between Anglesey and the rest of mainland Wales. For the | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
last 20 years, perhaps more, Anglesey as a local authority has | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
festered and said that. It has turned itself the label, septic | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
isle. Why? Because of the appalling behaviour of some local councillors | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
who had the temerity to suggest that what they were doing was in | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
the interests of those who live here. Myself included. | :14:06. | :14:14. | |
Storm clouds have been gathering over the island of Anglesey again. | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
The trouble had local-authority is in crisis again. | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
All those reports cited over the years to try to highlight the | :14:21. | :14:27. | |
malaise on Anglesey had very little effect because, here I am again, | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
saying much the same thing and wondering why it is, that, like | :14:31. | :14:36. | |
others on Anglesey, we have for the last two years been denied our | :14:36. | :14:43. | |
democratic right to vote in local elections? There was the perception | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
that this was a very fractious Council, politically, with | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
disparate political groups, very often at war with each other. But | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
also it has to be said that there were problems on the administration | :14:58. | :15:06. | |
side. There was very match these island mentality. -- very much a | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
silent mentality. Because of what was seen as chronic political | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
infighting and misbehaviour, the Welsh Government finally lost | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
patience with Anglesey and cent in five commissioners to try to sort | :15:17. | :15:27. | |
:15:27. | :15:35. | ||
Enough is enough, I have been more than patient allowing the council | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
to sort things out. It is the politics of the playground. Work | :15:41. | :15:46. | |
will be put on or hold as the Commission attempts to put | :15:46. | :15:54. | |
Anglesey's house in order. One of the commissioners who stood down | :15:54. | :16:00. | |
last year has spoken to us about the need for intervention. | :16:00. | :16:06. | |
external solution had to come from outside to these internal problems. | :16:06. | :16:13. | |
I understand there is an economic argument but once the argument was | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
out of the we then for the term you need to get on with the job of | :16:17. | :16:23. | |
helping these people in Anglesey. Certainly, in this the indeed, at | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
this time of austerity, areas no place for it schoolboy politics as | :16:28. | :16:36. | |
was referred to at the time. It is still a difficult to comprehend the | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
corrosive and damaging effect of the petty political intrigue that | :16:40. | :16:46. | |
has gone on in this local authority. The people who live and work here | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
have deep-rooted perceptions of Anglesey as they look at their | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
right to vote in next month's elections. I do not passed them. | :16:57. | :17:04. | |
They make promises they never keep. -- do not trust. The put a new | :17:04. | :17:12. | |
structure in place, are you aware of that? Yes, but I will believe it | :17:12. | :17:18. | |
when I see it. Did the disappoint you in the past? You s, in every | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
way, housing, jobs, everything. is a national disgrace really. | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
People we have spoken to say they are hopeful but they are not quite | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
sure things will change, how do you think it will go? Every election | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
they have had people have been hopeful. I feel sorry for the | :17:39. | :17:45. | |
voters but nothing seems to have changed. There are many examples of | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
the seemingly senseless behaviour which has characterised this place. | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
There is for me one case that exemplify is this the rotten | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
borough. It resolves around this place, now at a beacon of hope and | :18:00. | :18:06. | |
what can be achieved when councillors finally put their minds | :18:06. | :18:12. | |
to it. It involved the knocking together of several heads. For | :18:12. | :18:19. | |
almost 10 years it was the case of acute data without a gallery. Local | :18:19. | :18:23. | |
councillors at the time could not agree among themselves where to | :18:23. | :18:29. | |
house this priceless collection bought for the people of Anglesey | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
with millions of pounds given in a bequest. The drawings said to be | :18:34. | :18:40. | |
among the best that there is, languished in a vault in the dim | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
local authority headquarters until that brave curator it gave me and a | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
film crew access in the hope that the publicity which followed would | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
shake the councillors out of their lethargy. It worked. The result is | :18:55. | :19:01. | |
to be seen here. The Tunnicliffe collection and much more or. It is | :19:01. | :19:07. | |
now on show to the public instead of being hidden away gathering dust. | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
It is difficult to believe it could have been otherwise but for me, | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
this is a reminder of how bad things were, are under siege, the | :19:17. | :19:26. | |
philistines almost won. We are told that is a thing of the past. The | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
man charged with the task of ushering in a new era is optimistic | :19:32. | :19:40. | |
that Anglesey can finally shed its shameful image. We are way past the | :19:40. | :19:47. | |
last chance saloon. I think every citizen realises that. I sincerely | :19:47. | :19:52. | |
think we have turned the council around. The atmosphere is different | :19:52. | :19:59. | |
here, it is a different place, it is different to come in to work. We | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
have learned from bitter Experience that is never to be repeated again. | :20:03. | :20:09. | |
Those who want to put Anglesey back on track are also hopeful that they | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
have finally succeeded in pointing the local authority in the right | :20:14. | :20:22. | |
direction. But the optimism is accompanied by a cautionary note. | :20:22. | :20:28. | |
It is vital that they hold control over local Government. You do not | :20:28. | :20:34. | |
want people from outside coming in to take absolute control and tell | :20:34. | :20:40. | |
you what to do. I think that would be a problem. It is not something | :20:40. | :20:46. | |
that week in Wales would wish to see. The future of Anglesey does | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
depend on those we choose to represent us next month. At best | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
the commissioners are likely to be put back in to run the authority. | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
At worst the authority could disappear altogether which might | :21:01. | :21:08. | |
happen anyway. All of us in Anglesey know that we are beyond | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
drinking at the last chance saloon. That was David Williams reporting. | :21:12. | :21:18. | |
You can see a full list of candidates standing in the election | :21:18. | :21:24. | |
on the BBC News website. Last week we were discussing the ongoing | :21:24. | :21:30. | |
measles epidemic in the Swansea area. The number of reported cases | :21:30. | :21:36. | |
has passed the 800 mark. 77 people needing hospital treatment. The | :21:36. | :21:42. | |
vaccination programme has been extended. Despite the appeal, the | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
response rate for teenagers especially continues to be low. | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
Somehow the message is not getting through to one of the most | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
vulnerable groups. Is the media playing its part in a responsible | :21:56. | :22:06. | |
:22:06. | :22:08. | ||
way? Joining as his and cheap p and a journalist. -- a general | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
practitioner and a journalist. Bring us up to date on your | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
understanding of where this epidemic is. It is one of the most | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
serious epidemics we have had for a number of years, especially in | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
Wales. We have had one gentleman who looks like measles has been | :22:29. | :22:35. | |
implicated in his death, somebody in their twenties. I am sitting | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
here in north-east Wales talking to you and be have not been hit yet | :22:40. | :22:47. | |
unlike other parts. I see yet at the moment because one of the | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
worries that we all have is that this epidemic will spread from | :22:52. | :22:58. | |
Swansea outward to other parts of Wales and possibly to England. I | :22:58. | :23:04. | |
was talking to some colleagues the other day. We were really very | :23:04. | :23:11. | |
anxious that we were going to be a hit by this sort of measles tsunami. | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
With those concerns in mind, what practical steps are you taking in | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
your region? We are all getting switched on to try to identify | :23:22. | :23:29. | |
young people, because it tends to be children in their teens, who are | :23:29. | :23:35. | |
most at risk. They are the ones who have missed the boat. We are trying | :23:35. | :23:40. | |
to identify those and approach the parents and young people themselves | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
to alert them to the fact they have deficiencies in their protection. | :23:45. | :23:51. | |
The other thing which I am fortunate to be able to do is, I | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
have a column in the local paper, I am using that as well to tell | :23:56. | :24:06. | |
:24:06. | :24:10. | ||
people. I will come back to that in a second but I will ask you because | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
of your Media Experience, today, what is the role of the media in | :24:14. | :24:20. | |
trying to sort this out? I think the media has been playing a | :24:20. | :24:24. | |
constructive role. It is a big story and the focus is about making | :24:24. | :24:31. | |
sure people become safe and get immunised. All the past questions | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
and debate about the MMR vaccine I think have been put to one side. | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
What is important here is how to prevent people getting measles. The | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
focus on the story is that it is prominent and the focus is on | :24:46. | :24:53. | |
getting people to be safe. The media is playing an important role. | :24:53. | :24:59. | |
The best way it can serve general practitioners and others by getting | :24:59. | :25:09. | |
:25:09. | :25:10. | ||
people to go and get the vaccine is by keeping it important. What has | :25:10. | :25:14. | |
been the difference in the take-up rate in your region since this | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
story started? Our people knocking on your door saying we have kids | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
who were not vaccinated for whatever reason and we want it | :25:22. | :25:30. | |
done? Not very much. People see it as a problem in Swansea but it is a | :25:30. | :25:36. | |
problem for the whole of Wales. Ins one see there were marginally lower | :25:36. | :25:41. | |
uptakes than other places so there was less community protection in | :25:41. | :25:46. | |
Swansea than there has been in other parts of Wales. That is not | :25:46. | :25:51. | |
to say that protection in other parts of Wales is fantastic, it is | :25:51. | :25:59. | |
not. We are all at risk. Why, for example, in your region, is this | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
problem still persisting? Are people still concerned about the | :26:03. | :26:09. | |
safety of the MMR? I think less so now. I think that comes back to the | :26:09. | :26:15. | |
media have been done a good job to get across that the MMR is safe and | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
effective. The message that was getting out 10 years ago was not | :26:20. | :26:26. | |
right. If the media are doing a good job now is that meeting up for | :26:26. | :26:32. | |
the fact that they made a hash of it in the first place? I think that | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
is probably true. Good journalists are trained to offer a balanced | :26:37. | :26:44. | |
view. The problem was that when the original story broke there was at | :26:44. | :26:51. | |
clearly dominant view that MMR was safe and an abhorrent view of Dr | :26:51. | :26:56. | |
Andrew Wakefield that made a speculative view that it was not | :26:56. | :27:02. | |
safe. The two of these were treated as though they were almost of equal | :27:02. | :27:08. | |
weight. We saw lots of parents coming on expressing concern. Often | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
the parents look like more sympathetic figures than doctors | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
making bland assurances. This created a climate of worry. We | :27:18. | :27:24. | |
tracked public opinion during a big spike in coverage in 2002, in the | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
beginning of the coverage people were much more likely to believe | :27:27. | :27:32. | |
the vaccine was safe but towards the end of the coverage a majority | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
said they felt there was equal evidence on both sides of the | :27:36. | :27:44. | |
debate. Finally, you hinted earlier you were concerned about the uptake | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
rate in your region, can you be a little bit more specific, how | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
concerned are you? I think I am very concerned because we have got | :27:53. | :28:00. | |
a group of children in which the take up rate was so low it is like | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
Swiss cheese, there are holes in the cheese where the virus can get | :28:05. | :28:11. | |
in. If it is a solid wall of protection, most of the community | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
being protected, the virus cannot get a foothold but we have this | :28:17. | :28:23. | |
Swiss cheese protection all through Wales. An epidemic could happen | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
anywhere in Wales as well as Swansea. Thank you for joining us | :28:28. | :28:34. | |
both of you. If you want to hear more about the measles epidemic you | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
can watch our programme on Wednesday night at 10: 35 on BBC | :28:40. | :28:45. |